TPBA BuilderTalk
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TPBA BuilderTalk
TPBA Builder Talk Ep 1
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City of Amarillo building codes
Yeah, I'm Robert Downing. I own uh RDS inspection service.
SPEAKER_02My name is Jordan Dugan. Uh, one of the owners for uh Caprog Design Build. My name is Joel Rastin for the Duration Home.
SPEAKER_00My name is Tyre L. Tenner with Highlander Team Installation. Just like to mention that there's about 75 plus years of building experience here sitting inside me. So we've got a lot of a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience.
SPEAKER_03We'll try to make it interesting and not too deep and not too worried.
SPEAKER_02There's there may not be a whole lot out there that are quite as interested in the changes that uh as we know. I think we're all pretty passionate about it. Um, so it it does kind of set us up for a good guidance for the fellow listeners out there. I think everybody's happy to be here. Uh there's a couple things that we wanted to talk about today, and we're gonna keep our our our first podcast kind of short on the topics. Um they're they're hot hot button items. Um, and I think there's a lot to be said on on uh the upcoming code changes, the city ordinances, uh, the way that the building is gonna change here in MRL. And that's some of the information we want to bring to you. Um help you out out in the field, help you getting permits, uh, kind of kind of give some guidance and a real level um personal conversation instead of just giving you a printout and saying, hey, good luck. Uh hope it works for you and hope you don't uh have a hard time doing it. So I hope you don't fall asleep listening to it.
SPEAKER_03We'll try to make it interesting and not too deep and not too boring.
SPEAKER_02There there may not be a whole lot out there that are quite as interested in the the changes that uh as we are. I think we're all pretty passionate about it. Um, so it it it does kind of set us up for a a good guidance for the the fellow listeners out there. Uh Joel, why don't you tell us kind of what what's what are the topics that we're talking about today?
SPEAKER_03Well, uh we're talking about the uh the July 1st big big bang. That's right. It's the big bang. So everything as you know it is is now different. Um you're gonna turn in for a permit. Uh it's not gonna be the same as it was June 30 at first. Is there if there's 31 days in June? I think so. So it's a it's a new world. Maybe maybe 30. Right. So uh Robert, so what what have we adopted?
SPEAKER_01Uh the 20 we adopted the 2021 codes. Uh we have left the uh 2015 energy code uh unamended uh from an uh from an amended point of view, and that is going to be a hot topic uh for a while. Uh hopefully we can spend a little time talking about each one of these ordinances. There's not quite as much in the new ordinances as there was in the old. So what's an ordinance? An ordinance is a way for a city to uh uh uh strike through or change something that makes it more sense for where you live. So they're adjusting what they're adjusting, they are adjusting kind of what's in the code because that code is written, as I've said in numerous times, is for all of North America and about 32 countries across the world. So not everything in the code book pertains to us out here in the in the panhandle in West Texas.
SPEAKER_03So let me ask you one question. When you say these ordinances, I I understand now what they mean. Who uh what committee who sits down and decides that Amarillo doesn't need to have uh a rainforest adjustment?
SPEAKER_01There is a construction advisory board that does go through the codes, then once they go through them and read them, talk about it, then they sit in front of typically the building official and maybe the chief building officer, the electrical chief, and the plumbing chief, and they'll make some decisions about what needs to be in there and what doesn't need to be in. What do we need to change? And in some cases, we don't need to change anything. So this committee is local amarillo officials, yes, it is okay.
SPEAKER_03So it's coming right from our our city.
SPEAKER_01Yep, got it. The construction advisory board has builders, real estate people on it, plumber, electrician, uh, a couple of different. I know there's a couple of different builders on there for sure. Oh, uh architect and engineers.
SPEAKER_03These are industry peers, yes, they are okay, and so that that's how these these adjustments uh take place.
SPEAKER_02So just kind of to recap, we're under the 2021 IRC now, and that's since July 1st, 2024 is now in effect. So any permit applied after that has to follow these guidelines with the exception or the ordinance of the IECC 2015.
SPEAKER_01That is correct.
SPEAKER_02Um well, so you know, one of the kind of hot button items that that other than the 21 IRC that's that's gonna have some changes that we'll we'll follow up with in some future podcasts. We want to kind of take this one step at a time. So it's not a four-hour podcast, or it's not overwhelming, but you can actually absorb some of this information. Um let's get into the um kind of the hot button item, which which is the IECC uh 2015 insulation and finestration requirements table.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you want Toriel to kind of go through this? Yeah, let's let's do that, Toriel. Yeah, I mean so again, your background is insulator. Yeah, insulator. Right, insulator. So you you're actually installing this stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so you you'd be a good one to to speak for before and during and after what's happened and what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think first off, probably the most important thing to take note of is um climate zone four. You gotta start with the the very basics. Um, when you go read the code book, the 2015 IECC, you're gonna find a lot of information in in that in that those chapters that don't pertain to our area and don't pertain to our climate zone. So as we look at these charts, let's make sure that we're we're reading the correct line. Um in our case, it's climate zone four, except Marine, they put on this one. Um a lot of what's been done in the past is gonna be changing um with the ways that we're gonna meet these code requirements. And uh yeah, I think that you know, even though these numbers are going up, which in a lot of cases would pertain to you know more expensive building, there's still is there's still lots of good ways to uh to insulate our homes. And it's it's not for the builder, it's not a it's not a scary thing for the subcontractors, the insulation contractors, it's not something that makes it impossible to continue doing what we're doing. It just changes the way we go about it.
SPEAKER_02I'll I would agree with that. Um you know, while we're while we're on the subject, why don't you go ahead and read off a few of these numbers and kind of let us know where these basic prescriptive guidelines are um for these insulation values, these UVAct factors for finestration.
SPEAKER_03Do we have like a before and after shot? Like where it says 49, uh, you know, June 31st.
SPEAKER_02What was it? I don't have one printed out. Robert, you can probably help us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you probably can help us on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I can tell you what they are. That's for sure.
SPEAKER_03Let's let's let's I guess let's review that first. Yeah, where we're coming from and where we're gonna shoot, so they don't just freak out on a big jump.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. For the most part, one of the biggest places was the ceiling R value was put in at R40. Uh, and I believe the wall was left at R20, but they would accept an R15 in the cavity of the wall. Uh so now we are back to how it's written, which is R49 in the attic and an R20 or a 13 plus 5, which 13 is your interior cavity, and your five is your exterior insulation.
SPEAKER_02Um have our our fenestrations changed.
SPEAKER_01No, the fenestrations were still a 0.35 and a 0.55 for the skylights. Uh the glaze fenestration solar heat gain did not change either, which was 0.4. A lot of windows that we see today are much better than that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just to kind of touch on you know, if if somebody is a builder, you're probably pretty familiar with these terms. That U factor is the inverse of the R factor. Um the glaze finestration you see, SHGC, that's solar heat gain coefficient. That's the amount of heat that can pass through that window into the home. Uh, and again, that's why that that uh climate zone is so important. You know, in a in a northern climate zone, to have more heat pass through might be a good thing. Where down south to have more heat pass through means you're actually expending more energy to uh achieve the conditions inside that living space that you're trying to accommodate for. Um, you know, some of the other stuff that we've got on here, Robert, you might know a little bit better. Uh we've we've got, you know, typically in Amarilla, we've been doing an exterior um foundation insulation. That's it's in our case, it's typically a spray foam sprayed on the outside.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's either spray foamed or a minimum of an R5 uh slab. Uh the one thing that we'll be looking for that's a little bit different is the fact you've got to stick. If you're gonna use a foam board, it has to be stuck to that slab. You can't just throw it in there and leave it and put your brick up and go on down the road. It doesn't do any good if it's if it's not attached.
SPEAKER_02Sure, that makes sense. Um you know, being being slightly above grade in some circumstances has a chance for it to be airwashed. And we might go over uh here in the future some some products that are available for use that are in our market, uh, maybe some that that you've inspector or Joel and you and I have maybe used before, and and and maybe we can help give some guidelines about the the found uh slab installation, just just in general, um different wall assemblies to maybe achieve some of these. Yeah, we can have some fun with that. Um yeah, I think it'd be a really fun uh podcast conversation.
SPEAKER_03Jarrell, what do you think about the R489 number? That seems to be the one that's jumping off the page.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it looks huge, but I mean I think we're gonna get to this yet, but it's so important to remember that the performance versus the prescriptive path.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's something we wanted to talk about, correct?
SPEAKER_00So these these numbers they they mean a lot for those that are are gonna try to build the prescriptive method, but I don't really think, and you guys are gonna have to stop me because I'm not always necessarily politically correct. Stop.
SPEAKER_03Stop stop right now.
SPEAKER_00But uh the I don't think you're gonna see a lot of builders using the prescriptive method, if any, just to be just because it's so difficult. And uh yeah, when you throw in the performance path to to meeting the code compliance, there's really a lot a lot of advantages to it for the homeowner and for the builder. Yes, it's good for everyone, really.
SPEAKER_03So so the prescriptive, I mean, there is more than one type of prescriptive, but this is the the the simple one that everybody knows about, and so that's just right out of the new codes. This is just bam, they're saying this is what we need.
SPEAKER_02There's one there's one prescriptive, but we have six paths, paths, right? And we're commonly gonna refer to two paths here in Amarillo, which is performance and prescriptive.
SPEAKER_03So performance is the is the big topic.
SPEAKER_02Performance is gonna be, I think, something that's got 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_03Everybody hang on on the line because we're we're talking about performance now, and it's it's a it's it's kind of deep. That's and I think it's something exciting, yeah. But it's uh it's new, it's new, it is new.
SPEAKER_02Um, you can't do it on the back of a napkin. Like like Tyrell said, the prescriptive path is probably gonna be uh become a less of a popular path. Uh, and I think it's uh gonna have a lot to do with some of the installation values that we're gonna have to achieve. Doesn't mean it's a bad path. Uh it means it's the it's it is the set forth prescriptive minimum requirement we have to build that house. However, when we move into that performance build, that doesn't apply necessarily anymore.
SPEAKER_01No, and the other I ask a question to somebody who actually sits on the ice the International Code Council energy board, I ask her, Why do we still even have a prescriptive path? And her answer was because in some cases when we're remodeling a home, this is this is the easiest, easiest path to get to. Uh so I want to make that pretty clear too, is is that prescriptive method, it's not gonna go out the window on a remodel necessarily, unless it's a pretty large remodel. But if you're just redoing a bathroom or adding on a bedroom, that may be the best choice.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense. So you're not having to necessarily get an energy model for that done.
SPEAKER_01That is correct.
SPEAKER_02You can put in a window that has a sticker that is approved with a 0.35 finestration U factor, uh, and then you would apply that insulation in that wall and pass code.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So in a small remodel, it might be the most affordable way that we can do it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_02That's a that's a really good point.
SPEAKER_03So we should take this and turn this paper over. We're done with that, and and we should talk about we are performance, yeah, and what that means. I mean, that you can take the word performance and you can add the word a la carte to it, and and and kind of have you know, uh, it's like you know, going to the restaurant and there's plenty of options, but it's really hamburger and beans, it's no longer the combo meal, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, so so um you what you want to talk about how that how that starts, uh you know, right from uh the energy auditor right through your your options of assemblies, and this is all done on a program. What was the name of that program?
SPEAKER_01It's echo trope.
SPEAKER_03Is it two programs or one program? There's several is there's several programs, but echotrope is the most widely used. And when I say the guys, I mean there's a third party that you're involved with. It isn't certified, yeah. You know, it's it's a energy energy auditor. Is that what they call themselves? Yes, that's exactly what they call energy auditor.
SPEAKER_02Yep, or in some cases, and certain, uh, and and I only know this coming back from the the bringing the passive house back into this, it is that same concept. Um, a lot of times they're referred to as a designer, um, but energy audit is a common name. And what they're gonna do is you you're gonna have a conversation with them like you would an architect. You're literally designing the the assemblies and the things that go into that house, a combination of things to meet a total score that approves you for that. Um basically for the permit to pass inspection.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm gonna ask this question here quick because I know the builders are gonna be asking is this something that a builder can can he be his own inspector? He cannot. Good question, yeah. Yeah, cannot be. This has to be third party, it's conflict of interest, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And these third parties are certified through ResNet and through Energy Star as well, which is all which is all operated by the Energy Protection.
SPEAKER_03And don't they isn't there a provider over above yes, there is. So I'm uh you know, there's a uh eye in the sky, yeah, you know, overseeing this uh energy auditor doing this work, and it has to be approved by an yet another person, so it's not it's not a uh um for the faint of heart. Yeah, I know if you these guys are jumping in, they're they're spending some money on the software for sure, and then the blower door test because they take care of blower door, they take care of the duck blasts, yep. So they have a they're they're they're they're in deep, you know, and they're excited to be doing it.
unknownThat's true.
SPEAKER_01They're right now from what I'm from what I understand, uh the expense is in the neighborhood of around 20 to 25,000 to become an energy auditor. Right by the time you buy the blower door, duck blast, uh, and some of the other little accessories in the software that goes with it.
SPEAKER_03Fancy tape they use, yeah. Absolutely. It's not cheap.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_03So no, the builders aren't gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had I had to ask the question for the builders because I know you can do it, you can become an energy auditor.
SPEAKER_02You can run a whole uh and and technically a builder can become an energy auditor, they just can't do their own energy audit.
SPEAKER_00So here's another question. So, what about when it comes to energy auditing? What about for a subcontractor? Um, if he's working on the project in in other areas, can he also be auditing that project?
SPEAKER_01Also, there's the way it was explained to me was yes, like the mechanical guys, yes, they could do their own duck blast if they chose to do so. But the problem is most because of the way the energy auditors are set up and monitored, they will not take what the mechanical guys put out. They want to come do their own test, they want to be sure that they're doing what they're gonna be monitored on. I'm going through some of this training, so I under I get what they're saying. So, and and in some parts of the state, um, there's as this energy auditing becomes more and more frequent, and you're starting to see more of it, some of the mechanical guys were a little bit upset because they weren't taking their numbers. Well, to begin with, the energy auditor is on the hook, so he's the one who signs the bottom of the page, it's his name and number that goes before the energy before the EPA.
SPEAKER_03So and he has to answer to his provider, he has to answer to his provider. So I mean it's kind of like a realtor and a broker, you know. Absolutely, there's a there's a chain of command there, there's a hierarchy, and so it's um it's pretty straightforward.
SPEAKER_02But if you're if your HVC guy is out there with his duck blast kit, it's not necessarily a bad thing, no, because he needs to protect it anyway, they are verifying that it is gonna be what they said it would be at the same time. Um, so maybe it has to happen twice because the energy auditor has to do it, and we understand that.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Um, it doesn't mean that every HVC company needs to throw their duck blast kit out the window.
SPEAKER_01Oh, no, no, no, absolutely not.
SPEAKER_03No, so here I am at Builder, and I want to do my my first performance house, you know, what do I do? I I I got my I got my plans back to the truck. What's what's my first steps? What's my second steps? What do I do?
SPEAKER_02So, really, uh honestly, before you even have plans, if you've got the chance, you really need to contact that. Uh it's it's usually gonna be an energy performance company or an energy audit company that is um they're not just gonna be your designer, they're also gonna be performing your inspections and your tests on the city. Absolutely. They're gonna submit your design models to the city for your permitting. Um, and and Robert, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, the city's not actually gonna be doing inspections on a performance-based basis.
SPEAKER_01They do not because they're not they're not, they're not certified to do so. Right, they can't do that, and it takes takes some liability out of the city. It does.
SPEAKER_03So you're saying that I I should take my concept, not my full drawn plans, and then talk to my energy auditor, uh, and you know, try to get a target, you know, of where I want to land with some of these there again, some of these values. If I want to do some trading off and on, and he he's kind of a consultant up front and helps me design if I've never done it before. Uh you know, two by six walls will give you this, uh two by four wall plus you know, insulation on the outside continues. We'll give you this. He kind of helps you do the assemblies, and then you can have your designer, iron or architect based on his recommendations draw.
SPEAKER_02That's the ideal situation. And and and Joel, let me throw this back at you. Um, how many times have you had a home built where somebody brought you a set of plans and you said, Man, I wish you would have brought me in on that in the first place because we probably could have saved you a lot of money in design. There's some things that architects don't always account for. Uh, and and in this case, it's the same thing. You don't really want to bring in a set of full drawn house plans and then tell your energy auditor, make this be approved because make it work. They may have some ideas that saves the builder, the homeowner, or makes a more efficient design out of what you're trying to do. So getting them in right off the start before that design process is started is actually a pretty key deal. Not absolutely 100% necessary, but it is a huge fresh benefit.
SPEAKER_03I can see your point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Typically, uh the energy auditors that I Have worked with they're really kind of good with the set of floor plans and elevations. That's pretty much what you got to send to them. And then they typically they usually have a sheet that the builder has to fill out to tell them, hey, I'm gonna spray foam. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna spray foam the attic, and I might use uh some other type of insulation in the wall.
SPEAKER_03It's like an intake form, it's an intake form, that's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_01And it sends them a direction absolutely, and it looks for um, I just got one emailed to me, uh, but it asks for window values, it's asking for are you doing two by four, two by six walls? Right. Um, what kind of appliances are you putting in? It asked for a whole host of things for the heating and air system. So the heating and air guys play very big part of what has to happen.
SPEAKER_02So so back to this intake form. Uh, you know, the big shock is we're moving to 2021 IRC and insulation values go up, and everybody's kind of stuck on this prescriptive path, and the home's gonna get more expensive. But let's let's look at it from a performance standpoint. Actually, what's gonna happen is now the builder is gonna get to build to his strong suit. Yes, they're actually gonna be able to do what they're really good at, implement that in that design process, and that's gonna help them uh kind of have a uh, I don't know, mediate a mediate mediation between what they would be doing versus the prescriptive path. Maybe they're really good at their wall assemblies and insulation, and so they they get to drop in some other areas. Maybe they always install an ERV and so they get to drop in their insulation, maybe they install a really good HVAC system, correct? And so they don't have as much roof insulation. So there's this, it's all these series of dials that we're kind of tweaking the up or down to actually get to where hey, now you need code. Energy is uh your levels of energy have been met, you've built a good house, we're gonna approve it, and uh you'll see it at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think part of the confusion comes by uh they're so ingrained on the prescriptive method that they don't understand that energy star or some of the other approved methods, they override all that. You you just take the code book, throw it over on the floor, and you do what the energy star or eri or whatever else.
SPEAKER_03So the whole thing, uh I I enjoyed doing this. That's the way I built, right? I I built performance house and built a real nice performance house here in towns, but I'm gonna I'm gonna turn my chair, I'm gonna be the devil's advocate, right? This seems clunky and expensive. I I all of a sudden uh you're asking me to turn 360 degrees here as a builder that would have been building in this town for 20 years. Help me understand why I should do this. I mean, are you gonna charge me a whole bunch more for this? Or I mean, uh let's pick it apart a bit.
SPEAKER_02So sure, okay. Maybe your insulation does cost a little bit more um in in one circumstance, if that's the performance path that you chose. Uh, in that situation, maybe you're getting a lower sear HVAC unit that you're saving money on because you spent more on insulation, vice versa. Maybe you spent more money on your HVAC and your insulation comes down, and at the end of the day, it's a wash.
SPEAKER_03But some you think it can be a wash at the end of the day, that's great. That's great news. Well, and it sounds scary. It does sound scary. I put myself on the other side of the camera. I'm listening to you guys, listening to myself, and I all of a sudden I'm just realizing this sounds scary. Well, and and the other thing is let's try to make it less scary.
SPEAKER_01And Jordan kind of touched on it in the fact that with the energy star or some of the other methods that are around, it's all trade-off, and the biggest thing that the guys have to understand and gals is here, most of them are already nearly there anyway. They're already using 100 LED lights, they're already using energy star appliances. So you've already met two of your trade-offs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, speaking of energy star, um, is there any rebates involved with uh getting going this direction? Is there any possible uh build builder rebates?
SPEAKER_01Well, they're not really rebates as such, but they're tax credits, tax credit, tax credit, and kicking the knee either. No, not at all. Uh and they're you know, it's on the website, and off the top of my head, I can remember that one tax credit is approximately $2,500 for that out.
SPEAKER_02Is that the only monetary value you can get back from going energy store?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, if you get get your blower door test and duck blower down even a little bit further, and there's some other requirements, but you can hit a net zero ready, and it's got a five thousand dollar tax credit to it. And the crazy part is we're pretty close to that already, right?
SPEAKER_03It didn't take much at all. The one we did in Pinnacle, that was the net zero ready house. We were so close we just jumped into the last little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we we've we understand that there is a way to more or less break even from our traditional buildings, maybe kind of modify what we're doing, technically get some tax credits back in. Maybe we're not doing much at all, uh, and and and somebody doesn't even want to mess with the tax credits. I think that'd be silly, but uh still might be getting really close to getting there. But what does that mean for the homeowner? Now, does the homeowner does that mean they're always gonna be paying more money for this 21 update?
SPEAKER_01No, I think they're gonna save enough money on their electric bill, their gas bill, uh the uh you know, I think a lot of people don't understand that their utilities are gonna go down over a period of time. Is it gonna cost the homeowner a little bit more money for that house? Yes, it will, but it's not significant and it's not anything that you can't recoup over a few years.
SPEAKER_03Well, also that home is gonna be better resale.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03It's uh I don't know if they're gonna get into it in this territory, but certifying homes, getting with the realtors, and that that certification stays with the home. Yeah, the green addendum is what you're talking about now, which is getting really popular in the Dallas Austin area right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Your home is the value of your home is gonna stay. Yes, and we we can't put our percentage on that here yet. No, it's not popular, it's there, it hasn't become a thing, but I do think that uh in the Dallas and Austin Fort Worth area, they're anywhere between three to five percent on top of their normal home value.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna hit here. I mean, eventually someone's gonna buy a second home and you know, a used home, and it's gonna, oh, you that was built as a performance home, and then there's documentation, there's certification, and and you know, the electric bills for the last three years, it's gonna be I I want that home, I don't want that home, I want that one.
SPEAKER_01And as we move forward, uh talking about the green addendum, I've dropped off two or three, four now to several of the mortgage companies trying to get them to start reading that green addendum and going, hey, this is a real deal. This this is part of it. And the other side that I was told today by our mortgage guy was they have training coming up for not only just mortgaging banks, but also for um appraisers. And the appraisers have have they're gonna have to understand that yes, this is a high performance home or an energy star home or whatever it is. Yes, it does mean more than the house that doesn't commission.
SPEAKER_03So there's a value to the homeowner.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Oh, and you're not you're you're not taking even like the comfort aspects of it. Oh, absolutely. I mean, because a lot of these tests that we're doing on these homes, they make it less drafty, more comfortable. That's what our home, that's what the homeowners want ultimately.
SPEAKER_02That's what they care about, and more durable, healthy environment. Yeah, more durable is another big one. And the other one is um it was so we covered energy efficiency, we covered comfort, we covered durability. Um, what's the other one? I'm missing. There's one more. Uh, health, health, health, yeah. Health, that's another big environmental. Yep, people pay a lot of money for health. Yes, they do. Uh, that's just an added bonus that gets.
SPEAKER_00You've seen the dust clouds around here. That's right.
SPEAKER_02That's right. Yeah, I struggled to come up with it. But those those are the typical um not side effects, isn't the word, but uh benefits, benefits that that you receive from these type of buildings that aren't commonly referred to. But I tell you, uh, and uh Joel, I know you know when you when you go into a house that's well built, it is a instant difference. It's an instant difference.
SPEAKER_03You walk in, it's just instant. So um you you sold me. But but there again, we haven't really touched base, and I know we really we don't know exact numbers, but boy, after hearing how this is so exciting, is this gonna cost me ten thousand dollars for that energy audit guy? I mean, what what's involved? It's gonna take me another six months. What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_01Typically not. Um, it goes scary. It sounds some of the yeah, it does, but some, and I will say this energy auditors vary a little bit in their pricing. It's a business. So, and it's a business. Is it under a thousand dollars, maybe? Probably. It's probably under a thousand bucks.
SPEAKER_03And for that, they're gonna they're gonna do the the modeling, yep. Which is really I have seen it done. It is it's pretty interesting where they can just take a wall assembly and they're gonna give you a little R value for that OSB, and they're gonna give you a little, they're gonna push a button, and then way over here down the line, through the computer, out the other side is your score. Yes. Well, I'd like a better score. Well, watch this. We'll just add just a little more R value, do a little thing, boom, there's a good score. And and you know, that you get your rating, get your score. So you think that's under under a thousand dollars for all that work, and he's gonna come to the the job site and do the blower door.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he does he actually do two inspections. There's a rough end inspection that checks out after it's insulated, and they go through and pick up uh the mechanical equipment to make sure that what you said you put in, it's been put in. Uh they're gonna check the ducts a little bit to make sure those are connected correctly, and then they're gonna tell you to to probably sheetrocket and move on, and then they won't come back until final. And at final is when they're gonna do a blower door test, they're gonna do the duct glass test, they're gonna do the testing.
SPEAKER_03So, so uh let's talk about those two things. Let's back up for one second because I was thinking in my mind as we were going through that, since I just finished that one performance house, and we won't get into that at this podcast, but you're talking performance. Let's talk about later, maybe performance framing.
SPEAKER_01Yes, sure.
SPEAKER_03Extra studs, you know, 16 studs in a four-foot roll. You know, let's get rid of some of that, and we'll maybe we'll talk about that subject because in performance, yeah. That's that's a big deal. That's a big deal. It's it's saving money, it's throw more bridging. That's a I was just thinking, that's a cool subject. Yeah, I think we could have a whole podcast on framing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wall assembly, yeah. That's whole wall R value, air ceiling. We'll get a whiteboard and we can get back here with a I think so. That'd be fun to do. We should we're doing it here, and we may change studios. Uh, we're we're we're we're obviously in our first one, and we're trying to make this uh something that's interesting for you and and educational at the same time, but um, yeah, I think we've got a lot of really interesting and we're gonna have some guests.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've already started working on a guest list.
SPEAKER_03Someone's gotta guess like four mics, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, these guys, these guys will probably zoom in for the most part. I see. Um some of our listeners will know, some they won't know, but uh most of the people that I've kind of mentioned to what we're doing, they've been in the building science side or they've been in the performance side. Sure, that'd be great to get started. 20 years or longer.
SPEAKER_03Sure, it's been going.
SPEAKER_01We're experts. Oh, yeah. I mean building science.
SPEAKER_03I mean, coming from the West Coast is it's been going on a long time over that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, technically, building science has been going on for thousands, but recognize it as called building building science.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it used to be newspaper in the wall, that was building science, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was horse, horsehair, horsehair, horse hair.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I used to love doing old remodels, and I the first thing I would do is grab the newspaper. What year? Yeah, 1923. Ooh, cool. Yeah, you know. I mean, uh, so that's building science.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I don't I don't think we have our very next topic already picked out. Uh we've got a handful of hot ones to pick from, and I think we'll all be interesting. Um, I don't think that's something that we're all passionate about. So hopefully we can guide you guys in the right direction. Uh, something I did want to point out is we forgot to introduce our uh our producer over here, Mr. Ben Hardesty. Uh he's with uh regional manager. What's the territory? Walk right in the back here and introduce yourself. Uh yeah, come on, come on and get a face to the yeah, everybody knows you in the association anyway, but we're really grateful for uh there's our man uh for Ben. He's also the uh chairman for the education committee, he's done a good job. Um, we're really excited to bring uh this content to you. We think it's an effective way to do it. Uh it's a fun way to do it. We hope we're interested and uh you'll stick with us on future future episodes.
SPEAKER_03But the the so the takeaway don't be afraid of performance building. Absolutely not, be afraid of it, it's not scary. You'll get one under your belt, and you'll just be that's that's normal. It's gonna turn into normal operating procedure, it's gonna be standard standard.
SPEAKER_02Performance doesn't mean this over-the-top high dollar house no, that's right. It's almost the wrong word.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I mean, we're just leading it to it's a good word, but it's a little misleading, it's it's a little scary. Um, you could they they could have said something like uh adjustments to code that's a little boring, but uh so don't be afraid because we're saying performance, yeah. You know, don't be afraid.
SPEAKER_02We're not saying high performance. No, absolutely no, we're not performance, right? So um that's that is something to understand. I think uh, you know, as far as the the builder association, you know, we we get together, we're we're all of us are very involved in that. We'd be happy to talk about it with anybody that comes. Um, we will have some links posted uh as far as the IEC 2015 the finestration and R factor uh chart. If you're gonna go with that uh prescriptive path, we'll put in uh maybe a link to the city ordinances, yeah. Uh kind of have uh uh a few documents in there that might be beneficial if this is something that you want to look into. Uh we're looking at putting that on tpppa.org forward slash builder talk, kind of our only landing page on the Builder Association website. I'm sure we'll have a lot of really good um information that we can uh put on there uh uh in the future that that'll be helpful links. Uh maybe could be as uh not just code related, we might have some some maybe some product endorsements. I'd be happy to put some of that on there. Um otherwise you guys can uh be able to watch this on YouTube. I think we'll be on uh Apple, Spotify, Google, kind of all the the main uh podcast platforms.
SPEAKER_03And before we sign off, why don't we do a quick um at a boy for TPPA, yeah, our association. So if you if you don't belong to our association, you can. That's right. You bet you can.
SPEAKER_02And there's three different ways of doing it, correct?
SPEAKER_03There's probably three different ways to do it. Well, there's three different levels to to join at, right? And so if if you go to our website, um you could learn more about, or I mean, if you go to the website, you could find that we have um luncheons, monthly luncheons, and you're invited. You can you can come. Do you get you get a free lunch on your on your uh uh I think so if you're the free if it's a guest for the first time for a first time?
SPEAKER_02If not, I'd be happy to buy the lunch for you. Right, right. So I've done it. I've bought lunch, so I'm good.
SPEAKER_03If you're interested, you know, in in coming and being a member, it's a worthwhile organization. That's how we we evolved. I mean, we just met having a lunch, visiting, and became friends, and and then the the there's committees you can be involved in. We have uh the parade of homes, there's a home show, there's a dozen committees probably. I don't even know about, but we have an education committee, and that's us. And so this is a great organization. You guys get on the website, check it out. Um Jordan will buy you lunch. Um, is it just uh tpba.com?
SPEAKER_02Is that uh that get us on to the uh tpba.org will get you to the website. Uh there's a schedule on there.
SPEAKER_03There's a membership drop down probably.
SPEAKER_02There's there's membership information. Um there's phone number to contact. Uh so JT Lairmore is the usually the guy that's that's gonna answer that. If you call that number, he would be happy to get you set up on there. Uh, it's really a fun group, yeah. Um, even though we have similar trades, similar subcontractors within this, it's not a competition type situation, it's uh rising tide. It's a camaraderie. Rising tide floats all boats, kind of yeah.
SPEAKER_03No, it's it's it's a good group. So you guys should just uh you should come and get uh Jordan to buy you lunch.
SPEAKER_02And it's it's a fun time. And we usually have a really good guest speaker, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We do. Yeah, we do. Uh yeah, and you I mean, you know, you join, you come, you can grab a mic and and hang out with us too.
SPEAKER_02So, anyways, we uh appreciate you guys watching. Uh we look forward to doing another one, and we hope you continue to thanks for having us to watch. So thank you.
SPEAKER_01All right, thank you very much, y'all.