TPBA BuilderTalk
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TPBA BuilderTalk
Wall Assemblies
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Welcome to the Texas Panhandle Builders Association TPBA Builder Talk Podcast, where we'll bring you expert advice from the heart of Amarella Building community. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting in the trade, our goal is to keep you informed on the ever-evolving building codes, share best practices, and help you excel in your craft. From innovative design ideas to smart materials collections and everything in between, we're here to support you in every aspect of home building. Each episode, we'll dive into topics that matter most to builders, contractors, industry, and professionals, ensuring that you stay ahead of the curve in this rapidly changing landscape. Our discussions are checked by the experiences and knowledges of our hosts and guests, providing you valuable perspectives that you can apply directly to your work. The views and the opinions expressed are those of the hosts and the guests that may not always reflect the most up-to-date or accurate information. Let's build something great together, one conversation at a time. Hopefully, we've we've got some good audio on this now that we've we've got a few things figured out here. Um but today's topic we're gonna be talking about wall assemblies, uh, one that we're all familiar with, especially on our second recording. Um hopefully we bring some good information and and some good insight on here. But uh and and who are you? Um I'm Jordan with Caprock Design Build.
SPEAKER_02I'm Ben Hardesty, Southwest Sales.
SPEAKER_04I'm Joel Rafton for the Duration Homes.
SPEAKER_01I'm Robert Downing, RDS Inspection Service.
SPEAKER_03And we're all part of the TPBA uh Builder Association for Amarello. Um so if you guys are listening to this and not familiar, come join. Come uh come have a luncheon with us, talk to some of us, uh, see what we can do to help you out with your business.
SPEAKER_04It's a great networking opportunity, and Jordan buys lunch. That's right. And um he hasn't yet, but we're we're we're pushing for it. We're pushing for it. Soon, it'll happen soon. And um really the f we we should have some sort of special deal. Be the first one to get the free lunch and you get a free hat.
SPEAKER_03A lunch and a hat.
SPEAKER_04Well, maybe we'll yeah, or a free something. We we gotta be the first first one up is get something special. So let's if you're out there, be the first guy to get that free lunch and come come check out our our luncheon.
SPEAKER_03That's right. The other thing we gotta bring up is we're we're in the middle of working up for some sponsorship opportunities. Uh we don't have those classified yet, broken down, um price points on them. But if that's something that you guys are interested in, uh we'd be more than happy to kind of entertain your hats away.
SPEAKER_04I can we can probably do that. Yeah, if you sponsor his hats, we'll be wearing them and we'd be giving them away. That's right.
SPEAKER_03That's right. Well, let's get on to the subject today, guys. This is a fun one. Uh so you know, wall assemblies. What we're what we're gonna do is talk about the common and not so common wall assemblies and a brief overview, and then I think we'll emphasize a little bit more on our wood-framed walls, which is what what what we have going on around here.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's what everybody sees.
SPEAKER_03Um, somebody want to start us off with the list?
SPEAKER_04Anyone, Ben, why don't you read the list? Yeah, for sure. And we and we didn't last time we forgot to write down um the igloo. Igloo. When we can investigate igloos as a wall assembly, I I don't think that's really gonna work very well except for maybe like one.
SPEAKER_02Oh, not in this town. Maybe two, maybe a week. No. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03But uh it'd work one day and not the next. That's how what happened. No doubt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So as far as the uncommon stuff, uh 3D printed is one that we talked about. Um obviously not common right now. Not necessarily going to stay that way.
SPEAKER_03Not locally common.
SPEAKER_01Not locally. No, Georgetown, uh down around Austin has a uh development of them. And then as far and what I've heard so far, they've sold all the houses.
SPEAKER_04Pre-sold.
SPEAKER_01Pre-sold. Yep.
SPEAKER_04I would say that that it's gonna get legs and we're gonna see it. Yeah. I mean, it's it's just cutting edge, it's new. You know, I mean, it's this is new as something that was a hundred years ago new. It is, but um, it's robotics, later. And that and that's always cool. Everybody likes to see a robot, you know. So that that's half the fun right there, you know.
SPEAKER_03I think with the shortage that we've got in the trade, that's a big play for it. Yeah, right. Um so what it is is just a quick overview. Is it's it's a a machine that's set up over where the foundation would be, and it is it is like an ice cream dispenser of concrete that's squeezing toothpaste, just a big old squeeze layers on top of itself and builds a wall up with kind of a hollow core. Um and you know, that we've we've gotten into the carbon offsets, I think it'll have a challenge with until we get recycled concrete. Um, that'll be a big uh role player in that. But it's uh it's an interesting wall system.
SPEAKER_02Now, do you think it'll be as far as from an efficiency standpoint? We talked a little bit about thermal mass and all that.
SPEAKER_04Well, you remembered.
SPEAKER_02I I remember things occasionally.
SPEAKER_04Oh, you looked it up.
SPEAKER_03So thermal mass is tricky. Thermal mass works in a shoulder climate very well because it heats during the day, so it supplies it gives off its warmth that it's absorbed throughout the day during the night, right? During the night the wall cools off, so it's it's cooling the house during the day as that wall's heating up. It's got a delayed temperature um, it's hard.
SPEAKER_04It's hard to put a value on it. It's almost uh an invisible cool thing. We know it's there, we know it does what it does, but what does it really do?
SPEAKER_03I'm sure there's a calculated way to do it, but I have no idea how that works.
SPEAKER_04The problem is the app for that here is you know, you there's an app for your phone you just sat there and it'll it will read yeah, it will read the two, three days worth and tell you what the thermal mass index index is.
SPEAKER_03There's um it the the lack of benefit here is summertime when we hit 105 degrees, we're still what 85 at night? At night. And we're still running an air conditioner. Well, that wall is still giving heat off at night. And so it's not it's not a benefit. It's the same in the winter time where we're we're not really gaining anything from it because it's so cold outside that it's actually it's harder to heat the house. But in a shoulder climate, I think it works really well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't I I don't know enough about it yet to you know enough about thermal mass, or you know about the I don't know enough about the the concrete TD printed out.
SPEAKER_04If you throw the thermal mass thing out, okay, you know, we touched case on that. The structure of it, what what do you think about the uh you know, huff and puffin' blow my house down thing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I think it'll withstand.
SPEAKER_03You still have wood roof. You've got a wood roof with the floor. I mean, there's no first failure in a tornado. Right. Um, your interior, I think the majority of your interior probably still wood framing. Um I I now I've seen them that got interior interior 3D printed for sure. But there's limitations with it, with running wire, um, you know, plumbing, all those things have to be pre-set, pre-planned.
SPEAKER_04It's robotics, man. They'll they'll have that down.
SPEAKER_03Remodelability is not a good option with it. So there's some things to figure out for sure, but I think it it's got legs, like we said.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think if you guys ever if you want to go on YouTube and just take a peek at it, you know, it's you know, three minutes worth of a watch, you'll be shocked. You go, really? That that the machine, it's almost mesmerizing. You sit and watch it go around and around, waiting for it to miss, you know, waiting for it to ooze off the side. It doesn't. No, it's a robot.
SPEAKER_03That's neat.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Anyways, uh next one.
SPEAKER_02So we we were already talking about thermal mass and stuff. So um straw bale, Adobe, and rammed earth wall assemblies, they're kind of all fall in that same category.
SPEAKER_03Kind of. Straw bale is an insulator.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so that does have an R value.
SPEAKER_04It's a gigantic backing. Yes. It's just a big backer board that builds up the outside and the inside.
SPEAKER_03Let's jump to the rammed earth because that is that is a thermal mass.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_03Um we don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_04You're leaving chicken little out with the straw straw house, huh?
SPEAKER_03Well, we'll get back to the straw house. But um Rammed earth. Rammed earth. It's it's a formed wall where they put layers of dirt in and compact it. Um it's a really neat looking wall. Uh it's it it again, it's it doesn't have remodibility. You don't have a way to run wires in it, plumbing in it.
SPEAKER_04But what's the reinforcement? Just the pack? It's just the dirt wall. Yeah, kind of throwing rebar in as they go or anything, just pack, pack, pack.
SPEAKER_01Not that I'm aware of.
SPEAKER_04Just compacted dirt. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think there's a specific blend of dirt that they put in it. I'm not sure what that is because I'm not super familiar with it.
SPEAKER_04I've seen it but they're using concrete forms, just like they would pour a concrete wall and they're packing dirt.
SPEAKER_03In layers. Yeah. Okay. And it's and you see the striations like you would here in Paladar Canyon walls. It's kind of similar.
SPEAKER_04So you think that the special dirt that you wouldn't see in every jurisdiction, every area? I mean, like our dirt is a certain kind of dirt, wouldn't be variation in it for sure.
SPEAKER_03Regional, regional variation in it.
SPEAKER_04No, I mean I'm saying is there's some dirt that just wouldn't work with that kind of wall. I mean, like if you I would suspect that's I would suspect that'd be true, yes. Sand's not gonna I mean our dirt isn't really great dirt. No. No, you know, I'm just saying so maybe maybe the engineering point of view, they'd say, hey, you know, back to the climate zone or the zonal areas, you know, that would be something you would see in other areas more than you would in at the beach.
SPEAKER_03I think it's uh architectural look and a call out um for aesthetics more than anything. Um because the the locations I've seen have been on pretty pretty high-end houses, and it's almost like it's an accent wall within the house, um, which makes a super cool accent wall. Uh so it's not even something that I would you're not gonna build a whole house out of it. It's usually like one or two in the house. And they're trying, and it's usually also in climates where they're taking advantage of that thermal mass and they're trying to get that passive that passive heat.
SPEAKER_04Um and by the way, all of these wall assemblies other than the igloo are all in the code. Yes, they are. These are all, you know, we aren't just making this up.
SPEAKER_01No, oh, absolutely not. No, the green building code's full of most of it.
SPEAKER_03Speaking of making stuff up, I do have a correction for the last podcast. Oh um, we were talking about concrete waking up moisture. Oh, yeah. And uh, so I've I brought up how far the concrete wakes up moisture, which is a long, uh, a long ways. That's that part wasn't incorrect. Uh quote of 16 miles, just to correct myself, it's actually six miles. Um, not that that's gonna affect any of our buildings and the difference here, but uh did wanna did want to throw that correction.
SPEAKER_04Next week it'll be five miles. So stay tuned for the corrections. There'll be great. Yeah, you know, then we all come to the reality that it wicks up about what three inches.
SPEAKER_03It doesn't wick it up at all. Yeah, right. All right, let's go on to the next wall.
SPEAKER_02So uh Adobe, we can go over Adobe real quick.
SPEAKER_03So so Adobe and and Straw Bell, those probably can go pretty pretty close together. Um Straw Bell is exactly what it sounds like. They're stacking up straw bells for the structure of the wall, and then it's getting a coating of of mud or adobe or cement. Um kind of that the air barrier, the water control layer, um, the the rest of the assembly that that wall's needing. The straw bell is making the base structure and the insulation of it. Um and those are it's kind of a for lack of better terms, kind of a hippie wall. Yeah. Um, we're gonna say that. They can correct us on the email that we don't have established yet.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it used to be hippie, so you could say that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, and the Adobe, I mean, the the Adobe houses that I've seen, um I understand why they work. And the Adobe blocks and bricks, and those are remodeled, remodelable.
SPEAKER_03Have remodelability?
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Remolable.
SPEAKER_01Yes. That's what you were doing.
SPEAKER_03Remoldable.
SPEAKER_01So it's you know, that that has some legs to it, and they still build a lot of them in Santa Fe. Now, I don't know if all of them are a hundred percent the Adobe block with the mud and everything.
SPEAKER_04This is like a CMU block with with the the big schmear on the back on the outside. I mean what's the core core the core structure of the core?
SPEAKER_01Is actually a sun-dried adobe block. Okay. It is. We've I mean I've seen I've gone through some of the developments where some of the older developments in Santa Fe where they've been remodeling them, and they're that's a pretty cool. It it it it it's really different looking. Uh how Amarillo skipped looking a little bit like Santa Fe. I don't know exactly, but I think the ranchers had something to do with that.
SPEAKER_02So the Adobe, it's effectively just a mixture of mud, sand, and straw, right?
SPEAKER_01And in the brick, and then yeah, they put them in a mold, they pack it uh in a mold, and it they set them out for sun-dry, and they pull the mold off of them and building materials, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So that's probably a good um segue into our masonry walls. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02A couple different versions there.
SPEAKER_03Well, we do. So we've got we've got brick, we've got CMU, we've got stone. Yeah. Um I think uh most everybody that's gonna be listening to this podcast can probably imagine all of those. Um the only one that might be um misconstrued is is gonna be the brick wall because we're used to seeing it as a veneer. A veneer and not a true um like a rolock where we've got two courses of brick that are tied with a perpendicular brick um every so often to tie those two walls together that makes a structural wall.
SPEAKER_04So when they do a true brick building, what's the inside framed as? Wood framed in in sheetrock? I mean, like some of the old courthouses from these little towns you drive through. The outside you're saying is a true brick structural wall, but then from the inside, then they just like skeleton frame it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean you could you can mount a stud wall to brick pretty easily. And so I think that that's kind of what they had going on at the time. Um you know, now we would use screws, I would imagine, but that they had masonry nails that they would do that with.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um so now we would we would kind of counterframe it and then insulate it and cheatrock it and it's a much quicker process with better insulation, uh cheaper materials, uh, better control layers the way we've applied these veneers on. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Um and it also gives you a chance to remodel the look of that without having to have a whole new wall reassembled.
SPEAKER_04Um people in modern day people are doing brick walls, structural brick walls today.
SPEAKER_03I would I would assume that they somewhere out there they are. They're they were definitely a lot more common um 50, 60, 70 years ago. Um and you saw it more in a commercial application than you did a residential. Um residential, if you were I would think they were probably more like stone walls um and combined with log cabins um and that kind of look because it was a resource that was available to them.
SPEAKER_04But you know, and some of the historical pictures on these these brick, you know, bank buildings from the turn of the century, you see, you know, they they're three stories or higher. So they just ran that brick uh until they couldn't reach any further. And then it and then they build what kind of roof structure on it? A flat roof? A lot of them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say a lot of them are probably flat roof.
SPEAKER_03So they just framed in a flat roof out of whatever they had pitch available, so it wasn't any I mean it they heated up and poured on the when when I've seen those block walls, Joel, they they you had the block wall, and then most of the time it was like steel web girts that were hanging between those two block walls, and that's what supported that roof. So they had a pretty big clear span, like a like you would see in a in a storefront. Um but I haven't seen I haven't seen a brick structure wall in a residential home. Um not that it can't be out there.
SPEAKER_01Just haven't run into it.
SPEAKER_04If you got one, you give us a call. We'll we'll we'll take uh uh a field trip.
SPEAKER_03We will. Now in CMU, now we don't typically have CMU walls around here for residential, but a coastal definitely does. Yeah, so it's probably the go-to on coastal.
SPEAKER_04I ran a lot into a lot of CMU block, you know, in the in the northwest.
SPEAKER_02So CMU is is just your standard system.
SPEAKER_04Okay, just one block, and that's it, you know. Um R value, you know, the inside's block, the outsides block, it's block. It's down and dirty block, you know.
SPEAKER_03And they make breakaway walls with it and all that for tide and hurricanes, and there's a lot that goes into it. We just um we have commercial buildings around here built that way, and that's about it. Right. Um, so most of our masonry here on residential is all gonna be a veneer.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the block walls you see in the in the commercial application, you know, they just start scaffolding up and away they go, and then you know they got a grocery store.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_04You know, I mean that and they're those go quick.
SPEAKER_03There's a good example of a um a brick wall that's that's structural if you think about it, and it's probably what surrounds over the colonies and greenways, right? So that's like a double-layered I think it is. I never saw it constructed, but it has a similar if it's not, it's got a simulated rolllock course in it. Um so that's something to think about. Then there is brick patterns that simulate a rolock course that you'll see on the veneer or the facade of a house. Um, but it's it's more or less a replicate of what that look was for a true masonry wall.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I can't remember I can't remember if it was Ferguson's or Granger one when they did an addition to their warehouse, it was CMU. Okay, it was all CMU all the way up. So I do I do remember that because I was still working on the colour.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the commercial CMU is cool, but the residential CMU not so much.
SPEAKER_01No, uh no, no, no residential CMU.
SPEAKER_04Oh, what do we got next?
SPEAKER_02So you guys made fun of me last time for calling it the saying the acronym, uh S I P S. SIP system. So get so getting right this time. Right. Uh but what does it stand for again? I can't remember.
SPEAKER_01Structural insulated panel system. Got it.
SPEAKER_02I'll forget it again, don't worry. Okay. So that the benefits and and detriments of a SIP system.
SPEAKER_01Oh that's funny. You and I were talking about SIPs this morning.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's a sandwich board. It looks like an ice cream sandwich.
SPEAKER_03It does. And they're they're not built on site. So they're they're they have a production control to them. They do. Um when they arrive on site, the assembly is extremely quick. Um they usually have and can be adjusted, but uh significant R-value amount. Um, for sure.
SPEAKER_04They can make them as big as you want.
SPEAKER_03They can. Um that's kind of a lot of the positives. I don't know if you want to throw a couple more of them in there.
SPEAKER_04There's some uh I don't know how they have a decent shear value.
SPEAKER_03I think they do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they do. They're they're locked in at the bottom and locked in at the top.
SPEAKER_04No, but you know, they're they're how big are they? They're four foot panels. Yeah, they're there they are. So so if you so and they they they go together not with studs at the end of the four.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, at the end of four feet. Yes, there is.
SPEAKER_04So basically any shear panel you have is a four-foot shear panel. Yes. I was wondering how those are made because they're not really attached in seismic zones, not where we live here. Oh I would I guess they wouldn't be that popular in seismic zones. No, because you can't attach to the concrete, you can't have small shear panels. So, yeah, I guess that would be a a downside of them. Um, I I think um having somebody that knows how to assemble them would be that that is a that is a chore.
SPEAKER_03That's key. And we and we talked about this on our first recording. Because you've got uh such a big thick wall that is insulated really well, and if you don't have those those those joints between each panel sealed really well, you get a a high likelihood of dew point either on the inside or the outside of that panel, which could quickly ride away that wall. So the assembly is to do it correctly is absolutely key, and then to have it perfectly sealed is absolutely key. And so if that's something you were considering, I would look at either going to the manufacturer or or getting a manufacturer suggestion of an installer. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So and they all have got them. They've all got them.
SPEAKER_04And once they're installed, then you're gonna wrap it and tape everything. It's sure then you're just gonna seal it as tight as you could possibly can.
SPEAKER_03Do a fluid applied or something along the roof.
SPEAKER_04But what we were talking about this morning was we still like the idea for a roof only.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's not something I've seen a lot of, but it makes sense. And I think um they've really come on they've come into the market a lot and probably a What last seven years?
SPEAKER_01At least. Um, and I think with the energy codes changing and getting a lot more stringent, I think there's going to be uh for sure a good application for SIPS. Now I don't you know I don't know. We're we're a spray foam world here, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_03And the other part about putting that on a roof is they're usually built for like clear span. Yeah, they are. So you're not having to worry about um putting GERTs and and supporting members underneath it. Um it could give you really good attic storage or mechanical storage that's in a conditioned space.
SPEAKER_01Or just open or just a vaulted ceiling.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's a lot of options with it that I could see.
SPEAKER_04When you say clear span, they're still 24 on centers.
SPEAKER_03Well, clear clear span in the aspect that you don't have supporting GERTs or uh supports coming down from those GERTs onto load-bearing walls to actually support that panel at its peak. It's it is you have a panel that hangs off this wall and a panel that hangs off this wall, and they meet together, and and that's it. They're that's self-supporting by itself. So everything under it is a clear span from wall to wall. So you wouldn't have to have a frame. You could literally have, and I don't know what the the um the max distance that you can reach, but you could have a 40 by 40 room that's no framing in between it and a clear span roof sit panel sit on top of it. I wonder how they are for cost. I think here they're probably a little bit expensive because we don't have them real local and you'd have to transport them.
SPEAKER_04Um I'm not thinking about the whole house, but I'm just really the roof. I mean they they wouldn't they they come in four by tens, four by eights, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Let's see. Four by eight, four, four by nine, four by ten, four by twelve, and anything over a four by twelve you call the manufacturer because those OSB sheets come in four foot by twenty-four foot.
SPEAKER_04So they'll cut them to fit.
SPEAKER_01They will cut them.
SPEAKER_04So you could get a pretty good load of stacked SIPS panels. If you had the right skill set, you can use them as roof sheeting. Yeah, and you can have a really good day. But you're saying that you could take a section of a room and you can cut those at the pitch and then tip them up and put them in a room and they're not gonna kick out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they've they've got a they got a system.
SPEAKER_04They've got a system figured out where they're so it's so so it's an actual roof rafter framing all in one package. It is. I guess I didn't s I didn't really realize that. I was thinking it was more of a just drop it on the on the rafters and thank you very much for the R value.
SPEAKER_01There's two of them. There's two sit panel homes over on Fairfield Street. And now those had riff rafters in them. Um and we used uh four by I think we used four by ten or four by twelves. I don't remember.
SPEAKER_03And that was probably at the beginning of the SIPS panel being around, and and that was the um original way of using them. Now they've kind of innovated them.
SPEAKER_04So I'd be interested to see the the engineering and the snow load is on a clear a clear span.
SPEAKER_03I again I think a lot of that's going back to the manufacturer of those uh because I know they all have their own specs, now they're meeting requirements, but they've got their own technologies and their own interlocking mechanisms, and so I think it'd be worth looking into. I agree. It which it it it leads us right into the other one, which is um uh like a a what am I trying to say here? A pre-formed wall. Um tilt up?
SPEAKER_04No, no, a I like a Simpson wall.
SPEAKER_03Well, we can have it on our list here somewhere. Let me just take a look. Um we have some kind of pre-assembled wall. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going for.
SPEAKER_04Um I've used a pre-assembled walls like uh portal framing, you know, where you need a pre-assembled shear wall at the end of a small little session.
SPEAKER_01We're not talking about ready frame, are we?
SPEAKER_03No, I'm not talking about like an optimized frame, but they're they're still not built on site, but the they're not standardized in a 4x12. You give your plan set and they're building a you know, maybe a whole end wall that's got the window and door colours. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's it's a it's a pre-fab wall.
SPEAKER_04And it's coming in, you you you deal with a crane.
SPEAKER_03You deal with a crane, and it's very similar to Asips because it is already pre-insulated, uh, wiring channels are already ran in it. Right. I don't think it was a window cutout.
SPEAKER_01That's pretty useful.
SPEAKER_03It it there now. There are some down by Austin I know that are getting into it. Um I think everybody just just got an alert to interrupt.
SPEAKER_04We're still after that guy.
SPEAKER_01Um you know that person band. That that did look familiar.
SPEAKER_04This thing, this thing started at three in the morning. Yeah, three or three in the morning woke me up. You you can't mute the blue ones. Yep.
SPEAKER_03So we've got 3D printed, Adobe, Ramdur, SIPS. Uh, we've got into masonry framed. Let's did we talk about ICFs. ICF's next time. So ICF's also kind of a uh what I would consider a close cousin of the 3D printed, right? So essentially concrete walls, just uh instead of being poured layer by layer, they're built up with uh insulated concrete balls. Like Legos.
SPEAKER_01Like Legos.
SPEAKER_04They absolutely snack snap together like Legos. They do. They make radius curves, they make 22s, they make you know, and and the tools to to set that up with is uh a sheath and a and a blade about that long. Yeah, and you walk around and you cut and you put them together and some duct tape.
SPEAKER_03Now they'll have for for certain spanned openings, like if you've got a slider door that's 12 foot, that will be engineered and you'll have a it's like a it's like a lentil. Special call. That's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_04The little rebar, little S hooks, and then a couple five bars, and then you throw them into the foam and buck out the openings. All the openings they get bucked out with two by twelve. Yeah, and you do some supports on those, and basically a buck is a box. Right. You slip them in there and you do the lentil thing, and um, it's a little tricky to pour beneath those. So if you had a big 6050 window, you have a three-sided two by twelve wooden buck, and at the bottom you do two two by fours, leaving the opening for the concrete to to go in. And um, then you use a vibrator and you can get it all to consolidate underneath the windows. That's something you have to kind of pay attention to. But you're right, it's just you're pouring concrete and you're leaving it.
SPEAKER_03So, unlike the 3D printed house, you are getting insulation with that. You've got foam on both sides of that concrete being poured, and you're getting that thermal mass index. That was it, yeah. But much like the 3D printed and and the rammed earth, you are getting that thermal mass. You're getting the same, same, right? Um, so they're sold oftentimes as a performance R value, and it'll be a I've heard numbers as as high as like a uh R30 performance value. I've heard 45.
SPEAKER_04I mean there's a lot of marketing that surrounds ICF.
SPEAKER_03It is a misconception because R value is is not anything like a thermal mass. R value is is a real measurable item for yeah, and and thermal mass may be, um, but they're lump summing those together and and up in the R value, and really they're I I think they're sitting around R15 still. I mean, we're looking at the thing.
SPEAKER_04It's a fun wall to build. I mean, you know, with the fun meters there, you know, doesn't there's not a lot of stuff to pick up, you know. You can grab Yeah it's not heavy either. You can grab that one of those forms, and you you could do it by yourself. Yeah, I mean you know they have a real great leveling system with scaffolding that kind of goes with it. That's pretty lightweight, and um it doesn't take much to do it.
SPEAKER_03No, but there's some they're expensive. There's some nuances to it, right? You you you need to know what you're doing so you don't have blowouts because you are still holding that concrete in with foam, and if you go about it willy-nilly, build a tall wall and just start pouring concrete in there, you're gonna have a bad day.
SPEAKER_01No, they they use stiffeners and poles.
SPEAKER_04Well, but they use pea gravel mix. Yeah, they do. So and it's a different slump, and uh you have to kind of take it easy. And you're right. Well, anything can have a blowout, but that foam would blow out. Um probably easier than a wood form for sure.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um and and it's also in in hand with the 3D printed, you're still doing a wood framed roof on it. Right. So it's sold oftentimes around here as a form of a tornado shelter, stronger house to live in. At the end of the day, roof still blows off, you still got a tornado tearing your house up, and it's still dangerous to be inside of.
SPEAKER_01The only way I've ever seen them come across as a tornado shelter is if it's actually built as a tornado shelter. Sure. Yeah, with the light deck roofing and the extra rebar on top and all that.
SPEAKER_03Which they can do in a standard home or any any one of these homes um with either with concrete block, with formed concrete, with uh SIPS with well not SIPs with a um ICF wall and then a um a concrete lid on it. Yeah, they're all gonna be built the same. Um, but the house that's built with ICFs and a wood-framed roof is not a tornado shelter.
SPEAKER_04But but the the aside from the house and the tornado shelter thing, the ICF is a really great product for basements.
SPEAKER_03That's what I think their key use for.
SPEAKER_04I've a I've you know, you can't come out of the ground any cheaper.
SPEAKER_01You know you you you and I both yeah, we talked about that this morning too, right? Didn't we?
SPEAKER_03Talking about you know that coming out for crawl space or when do Ben and I get invited to this breakfast? It's not our probably well, he's been there a few times.
SPEAKER_04I guess I'm the black sheep over here. Yeah, no, we're out here crawling out of bed by 637 o'clock. We were talking about this morning about doing uh crawl space with ICF stem wall. Yeah, and I think that's a that's a big win, too, if we can if we can kind of turn the corner and get that done. You know, you get a um uh a conditioned crawl space, non-vented conditioned crawl space. Yep. It's an easy, quick thing for for trades to learn, so you don't have to try to find a guy with a with a couple trailer loads of forms, which seems to be rare around here. And you can do some crawl space. There was a lot that we were talking about this morning that was zero lot line clearance and and had about a four-foot differential from the two sides. You could build the lower lot, that whole side up with an ICF block as a retainage wall, and then build your house off of that as a crawl space. I I think there's those are going to be really popular if people start paying attention to the the pier and beam thing and the crawl space for sure. But I have to agree with you on the whole house thing, building the whole entire house out of it, not so much.
SPEAKER_02Is there any other issues with uh like installing? Did you have to have a different window or a different door pack? No, you just centered because I mean though you said there's they're college thick walls.
SPEAKER_03They they can be installed with a window buck if you're doing like a flanged window, but you can also install those with uh what I call any window or uh inside window. Yeah um and there's advantages to both and there's disadvantages to both. Uh part of it is what that builder's familiar with and what the look is what they're going for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking to say.
SPEAKER_04The look you can mount the window to the outside, kind of like a normal you know, operation, but then the inside you have an 11-inch windowsill.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, you got a real deep windowsill, a window seat, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_04I mean it's a good place to put your beer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It'd get too hot.
SPEAKER_04Right. But the the but the doors kind of have to be in set to the inside so they can hinge all the way around the door. So the doors are set. And that the problem I I have come across with that is a sill extension big enough to get you know, the sill, the bottom piece to get all the way out. That that that's that's an issue with those. Gotcha. Anyway, so what's next?
SPEAKER_02I was thinking swing back to hybrids since we've kind of talked about all the stuff that nobody really sees out here.
SPEAKER_03And I think we'll lump in with the hybrid. Let's just go ahead and lump in steel frame with it. Because most of the time um our hybrids are gonna consist of steel and wood. Yes. So that's a lot of a lot of times the way our Barnows around here are constructed if they're not a complete wood frame. They've got um steel columns and steel beams making up the rafters and the main support of the wall. Um, some of them will have GERTs, some of them they're framing wood in between, um, not using GERTs. Um now just to touch really quickly on the steel frame, a lot of our commercial buildings are solid steel frame. Right. Um, especially our big metal buildings that we've got that you see metal, metal exterior, panel exterior on.
SPEAKER_04I feel like a lot of the commercial buildings around here are just steel buildings.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I mean, every every shop you go to, every little store, every little supply house has popped up a steel building. Yeah. Boom. We're in one right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was fixing to say familiar. This is a hybrid.
SPEAKER_03It it is, it kind of is a hybrid, and then the fact that it's finished out steel building on the inside, but um, I would consider a true hybrid to be a wood framing in between the steels um where you're actually using some of that wood as a supporting structure. Gotcha. Uh this is a stand-alone steel that's finished out on the inside. Um but there's there's more hybrids than that. And it could be um maybe you've got a rammed earth wall section in the house, and maybe you've got uh a masonry wall somewhere, uh, maybe you've got uh some um ICFs on a certain section of the house, or like you're talking about building a stem wall is kind of a hybrid house, even though you're talking about framing on top of it. Um so hybrid's kind of endless and and and it's hard to call all these a standalone uh because at some point in time you're using mixed materials to build.
SPEAKER_01Well you got the gauge steel, you know, like I want to say tin can studs, but you know, you're when you get down into a 14-16 gauge stud, like a lot of the hotels are built with, that's pretty solid stud.
SPEAKER_03It is. Um and the other good thing about it is it makes a perfectly straight wall. There's already knockouts in them to run your wiring through. Um they're relatively easy to put up. Yep. Um you don't have to worry about coal and steel, just like you do with lumber. Uh lumber, you know. I I couldn't tell you how what the percentage of it is, but there's a large percentage of it that we either have to send back or throw away because it's um either wasn't cured well, or once it was cured and we got it to the job site and truck delivery, whatever that went through on on temperatures and and elements has caused that stud or percentage of lumber that comes out of lumberyard actually ends up back at the lumber yard and what they do with it.
SPEAKER_04I've tried does it end up at Home Depot? Is that where it goes? Where's all the badwood go?
SPEAKER_03I don't know if they throw it away and ask for a credit from the suppliers or if they have it at fixed costs I've never asked.
SPEAKER_04Possibly. You know, I mean I can't.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that would be a useful way to use that bag.
SPEAKER_04In my framing days, when I was actually framing, I would I would everything would be crowned, everything would be bowed, and and if it wasn't to my standards of what I wanted in the house, I'd just toss it in that pile. And that pile is always a pretty good size pile until the lumber yard, hey, come pick up that pile. I'm not buying those uh 104 studs, I'll take these over here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, so and they will pick them up. And well, we do try to help them out too and use some of that for blocking and and and different things.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot of not good wood. There is. So they turn into the finger joint studs.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could be get the straight sections. I just often wondered. I mean, they um isn't talking last 10 years, I'm talking the last you know, 30, 40 years. It's uh that's not new that wood is bowed and twisted.
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_04It's just a thing. It's almost a I mean, it's a normal thing, but it's too bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was thinking to say, unfortunately, it's a normal thing.
SPEAKER_03Well, if it wasn't a normal thing, our lumber prices would be a lot higher than they are. Oh, yeah. So I think it's um at the end of the day, it's more cost effective to send a few of them that are bowed, crowned, warped, twisted, and know that they're gonna be in there and you're gonna call them out than it is to send a perfect bundle of of wood over there and pay for the cost of that. Um, I think that's what it comes down to. And so it's something we're we're used to and it's just part of it.
SPEAKER_01Picking through it. I mean, if you want to buy Doug Fur number one, there's a place in New York that'll send them to you. Buy the train car load, they don't have a problem.
SPEAKER_03So before we do move into our wood frame, which may carry into uh you know a second part of this podcast because I know we've got a lot to talk about on wood framing. Um, I wanted to throw in uh post and beam, which is technically wood framing, it's just not wood framing as we would refer to it. Uh it's it's not real common around here. We do have some of it though. Uh and it's it's a more or less uh a look and architectural call out more than it is um that's what I was thinking to say.
SPEAKER_01It's an architectural look in itself, but it has supporting values. Yeah, there's so there's what it's all fitted, it's all fitted and put together one way or another.
SPEAKER_03Post and beam home builders that build all over the country, and that's how they build a home. Here it's we've got typical wood framed wall framers, but we'll have post and beam accents to them. Sure. Um, and the other part that that also ties into that's log homes. Right. Um, you know, I think that was a resource availability, is where that started, and then it was a look, and so people have replicated it, but it's not I haven't seen one around this territory.
SPEAKER_04You probably Colorado, maybe you might see a few.
SPEAKER_03How many trees do you see around here? Well, there's yeah, exactly. A log home around here be about the size of a doghouse. Exactly. Right.
SPEAKER_04Now you know where all that leftover wood goes. Log homes are cool. I've lived in them, I've helped build them. They are super cool. You know, a lot of specialty tools where the ends interlock, you know.
SPEAKER_03And they do have an R value. What's got an R value? One one R1 per inch. Yeah. So depending on what size logs you're using, you might have a decently well insulated home. Um, they chink them together and get pretty good airtightness out of it.
SPEAKER_04I think so. Uh there again, kind of like that that 3D wall. Running all your utilities is isn't really very user-friendly. Everything a little surface here, a little box there, a little cut out of the log and some wire mold, just you know, not much on the outside walls.
SPEAKER_03I'm sure there's there's people out there that specialize in it and they've got a good system, it's just not standardized here, and we're unfamiliar with it. So it's it would it would require a lot of out-of-box thinking, which is what we enjoy doing.
SPEAKER_04So it's a standard wood wood roof. It is just a standard truss roof or a standard hand cut roof goes right on the logs.
SPEAKER_03It's also very heavy lifting and hard work, right? None of it's none of it's handed by yourself. Um is there any other wall assemblies that we haven't talked about other than wood framing that you guys can think? I know we made a quick list.
SPEAKER_01Um, tilt up. Yeah, tilt up.
SPEAKER_04Didn't we bring up tilt up?
SPEAKER_03Tilt up and uh it almost falls in the masonry category, but yeah, it's uh we brought it up last time.
SPEAKER_04It's yeah, and tilt up's kind of a uh whoever thought of that one, they were just plain lazy and it worked. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I have no sca scaffolding's late. We need we have no scaffolding, just pour it on the floor.
SPEAKER_03Or they owned a concrete company, maybe. I don't know. How did that evolve?
SPEAKER_01I know the remodel for Academy when they had it on, that was tilt up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so was uh Amazon Warehouse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Amazon Warehouse was tilt up.
SPEAKER_03Big, really big, large buildings. You see it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh you ever seen them do the actual tilt up itself?
SPEAKER_01No, but I've seen them. I've had to uh I've had to look at it.
SPEAKER_03I've seen them up, but uh I just never have seen the I I did get to see because uh at the time I was driving back and forth going across Amazon almost the whole time I've got to see something. So I I got to see that. And now it was in five-minute windows twice a day, but I did get to see a lot of it.
SPEAKER_04So it's cable and crane. So they have some some fittings that are poured into it, attachments, and they just tip it up. And the and the uh do they uh put some sort of stop at the bottom so it can't slide?
SPEAKER_03I I would assume it's got a keyway of some sort, but I'm not I don't I again I was far enough away driving down the road that I didn't get to see the details of it, but I did get to see it in action. So interesting. I would think they've got those some sort of keyway and how they connect the corners.
SPEAKER_01I have no clue because I've I didn't I didn't ever get to see it done.
SPEAKER_04I mean, just I mean, they've been doing it forever. I mean it is gigantic, no problem. It's like they do it.
SPEAKER_01It's not something that we see residentially, so it's just no way too much money for that.
SPEAKER_03But the thing we do see residentially is wood framed walls. That's all that subject.
SPEAKER_01Um we've been doing that the same way for 50 years. Those there's been some modifications.
SPEAKER_03Coming to it. So we've got um we've got our standard framing that we'll we'll really talk about a lot, but the two of the things that we want to mention before we get into all the parts, the makeups, the how it's put together, uh what those individual pieces are called and and and what they do. We've got optimized framing and advanced framing. Yep. So I kind of wanted to touch on those. So Joel, why don't why don't you talk about the optimized framing?
SPEAKER_04The optimized framing is um a lot of for forethought, and uh I guess you can call it a kit. You know, every everything is cut to fit. All the king studs, trimmers, it's uh the headers, pieces, the cripples. Uh I can't say cripple, can't I? Uh everything is cut and it comes all packaged, labeled with a book. And everything is stamped. The layout is on the plate. And it's just a it's a it's a nothing, it's nothing that's uh different in any way. You just take those house plans and you send them in and they become optimized. I think there's a trade, ready frame is what uh what one of the trade names of that type of uh process.
SPEAKER_01I think that's builder first sources is what they call ready frame, maybe not there or something.
SPEAKER_04So uh it maybe takes one for the framer to get used to it. The book's very clear, very easy reading, and instead of just taking your saw and just start whacking up a bunch of random length or uh or the stud length and run out of those, everything's there. And and and the waste factor is is really super uh great for the economy and everything else. And the and it's uh the wood's good, it's good wood.
SPEAKER_03So you have a probably a little bit longer lead time getting that framing package there. So it takes a lot a lot of pre-planning. Pre-planning, of course. Right, but once that pre-planning's done, it shows up on the job site, the framing runs a lot quicker and a lot smoother. Yeah. Um, it's a lot quieter on the job site.
SPEAKER_01Um, or you're all you're hearing is a nail gun or a hammer once in a while.
SPEAKER_04I don't really think it's for one-off custom stuff. When I was doing it, it was a production thing.
SPEAKER_03So they they've you know with Builder First Source now, they've got it. And they've got their not that this is a promotion for them, but they've got their BDLR, a BLRD, BLDR website, builder website. And so now they'll, and I don't know that our branch here does it, but they'll um they'll actually design a plan for you in-house. So they've got um they've got them modeling and they've got they've hired tons of so they'll take your plan and they'll convert it? No, they will draw a plan for you. Okay. Um now they will take your plan and convert it if that's how you want to go at it, but they'll also from scratch draw a plan for you. Well, they charge for that fee. No, no, because I haven't done it. I'm sure it's I'm sure it's you get what you pay for, right? So you're getting a 3D model, and you can also on a custom build bring your client in. They can, with a click of a button, change the color of the outside of the house, change the cladding on the outside of the house, change what the windows look like, change interior colors, put furniture in it.
SPEAKER_04I don't think our branch does that.
SPEAKER_03I don't know that they do here, uh, but they it'd be really funny. There are there are branches in Texas that do it, and they might would do it via Zoom. Uh, because I know they've got the capabilities of doing that, where you would have client meetings, do a run-through of that virtual model, then from that virtual model, they will they'll give you a ready-frame package.
SPEAKER_01Wow. That's craziness right there.
SPEAKER_03You can get super detailed with it. If you want a five-degree slope on your window seals, they'll put that in there. If you want mechanical spaces, um they can yeah, floor ceiling, they can pay put duck chases in it. They they can really modify that to what you would would want to do. Um, and everyone I've seen that I've um that I'm aware of has also been a truss built at this point. I haven't seen a ready frame uh handcuff.
SPEAKER_04That'd be tough to do.
SPEAKER_03I I'm sure they have the technology.
SPEAKER_04I imagine the computer could kick it out, but that would be that'd be tough to do.
SPEAKER_03Maybe so.
SPEAKER_04Anyway, so optimize is cool.
SPEAKER_03It's super cool.
SPEAKER_04Uh we were we were doing it when we had like three three plans, three or four plans, optimized those and we ran those in multiple communities. Hey, let's let's put a 1342 over there, it's already optimized. You know, we already know what it costs, you know.
SPEAKER_03It certainly makes sense for a production builder standpoint.
SPEAKER_04It totally makes sense. Um I don't know if I would go through all that work in a one-off.
SPEAKER_03And I think, well, I think depending on your clients' expectations, their needs, and their wants, it could be beneficial. Um, you know, there's there's some clients that are just they get a seven-page set of plans and let's build this house. A lot of it's site built and it it is what it is. And as built, yeah, a lot of it. There's things that didn't come out to their exact needs and wants, but they also got a good deal in the house because there wasn't so much pre-planning that was put into it. Right. But then there's customers that will spend two years on pre-planning to make sure that that outlet lines up with the grout line of the tile they selected because they want to they want to take it to that amount of detail. There are. And those type of clients I think would would highly benefit off of some sort of uh, first of all, BIM modeling, but um um a ready frame package that would follow that.
SPEAKER_02So on a ready frame package, the tolerances are obviously gonna be tighter than your standard um just human less human error. So if the foundation is put in and it's got you know maybe a a degree or two off, is that gonna throw a bigger edge in the plant?
SPEAKER_03No, because it still is modifiable and it's not so if say you had a foundation that was way off in a truss and something happened where you had an extra foot overhang, that that becomes a difficult modification. But on the walls, if if you do need if you needed to, if you had a hump in the concrete, you could absolutely trim one of those studs a little bit shorter to make the top plate level. Um so it's it's you're not consulting an engineer at that point, it's it's still um it's easy to modify if you had to on the job side. Okay.
SPEAKER_04And you know what we also would be really good for is if you were gonna be framing hotels or apartments. Yeah, I was gonna say hotel and apartment. Years ago I was a framer and uh and I was the the cut guy, and and we would do uh apartments or two or three-story things. And I I would go there a day or you know, we would you know build the first floor, and then everybody would leave and go do something else. And I would go there maybe for three days and make kits. I'd make king stug trimmers, cripples, headers, and I'd do all my layout, and I'd do everything, and I would just stack it all over this 5,000 square foot floor system, and then I would leave, and then guys would stand all those all these pieces and parts, and then I'd go to the next floor or the next building, and I would sit and cut. And I'd just cut and cut for all summer long, you know. But if that was already all cut and just came in packages, it would go a lot faster.
SPEAKER_02But you would have been without a job.
SPEAKER_04That's okay. I was burned out at that point anyway. But I had a big old radio arm saw, and I would just sit out there radial arm saw, holy moly.
SPEAKER_01Holy moly.
SPEAKER_04I'd sit out there in the rain with the little tarp thing, and just and I a kid would hand we'll get lumber, and I would just just chop and cut and do takeoff and mark them and just stack them where they go. But that's that was the that was Joel's version of optimized framing. You know, uh but that's what they do now. I mean, you you know, there's someone that's cutting rafters, someone that's cutting stairs, someone that's cutting trimmers, king studs, you know, out of random. The studs come cut length, that's good. But uh, this is all done. It's all figured out, it's all done, and you know, you can order it in packages, you know, you can order the first floor, floor system, the second floor, but yeah, you're not cutting, and that's a uh, you know, and the cuts are clean and they're they're 90 degree cuts. It isn't like you guys kind of balancing in these, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, three H gaps where studs come in. Right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So there so there's precision in that, and that's it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_03Um so uh advanced framing. Let's let's move on into that. And advanced framing could be factored into this optimized framing for sure. Yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure. Advanced framing is a it's framing that's building science has been brought into a little bit, right? So it's the whole reason that we're we're even using advanced framing is one, it's it's reducing material that we're using on the house. Uh unnecessary, overbuilt material that we've considered. It allows for more insulation in areas that haven't typically been receiving insulation.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_03Um no cold corner, cold corner, no cold corners.
SPEAKER_01We've got insulated outside wall corners now, and no cold end walls either.
SPEAKER_03No walls, headers, headers, and now we've got insulated headers, and then we've um depending, there's different variations of it, and it can be taken to um certain degrees of optimization, but uh a lot of it would I'd say the common practice of it is you'll see on like a two by six wall framed on 24 centers, and um you know, on production houses you'll see it on two by four walls framed on 24 centers where they have to stack the rafters on top of the stuff the actual studs for uh uh for bearing, yeah, bearing to the ground support. Um but the the big concept of it, I think even more so than probably reduction in the waste is uh insulation in spots that we wouldn't find in older houses. And if you take a thermal camera in an old house now, you go look at the corner of the house, that thermal camera is gonna show blue on that whole corner, blue.
SPEAKER_04And then there's the thermal bridging of when guys start stacking double king studs, double trimmers, and then if the layout just happens to turn out where it is, they're not thinking about that. It's just a little piece under a window anyway. No, they're just gonna keep going. Well, take four more studs to get to this stud and just mock and put more in there. Yeah, so you know that there's not nothing left but studs. You know, and then so that's a thermal bridge issue. Yes, uh, and thermal bridging is a real it's a big it's a big deal for sure it is, you know. And then they like you said, there's you can't stuff insulation in between, you know, and then you know, waste of resource, waste of nails.
SPEAKER_03We talked about this before, and it's like a standard wall supposed to be roughly around 20% wood frame material in a wall. Um, and that's for standard layout. Now, standard layout doesn't always happen because you miss the door jam, so you add you add two more studs to get there because you can, or um you're not thinking, and you overcut the window rough opening, so you add another two by four in there, and that that was seen a lot. Um now when we get into this advanced framing, we're probably reducing that wall framing down to about 15% or so, maybe even less. Um and we're we're looking at the whole wall, R value, the whole wall assembly R value. That's where insulation, which we'll we'll get into insulation on on some of our next um phases of construction, but that's where that really starts to play a big difference on what you hear the ROI of R uh of R value versus cost, it's usually not factoring in the whole wall R value. Well, when you throw in advanced framing on that and you're adding an extra five percent of insulation area for that wall assembly, it starts making a big difference to what you should be putting into that wall.
SPEAKER_04Right. You can almost call advanced framing educated framing. Yeah, it doesn't take much just to educate your framer on the three or four, we're talking three or four things here. This isn't the 2020 list. Yeah, and re-educating anybody is just hey, can can you do us a favor and do these three things? And here's here's a piece of paper that kind of shows you what we need to do, and and that's all I'm asking here. And they go, Oh, it's we can do that.
SPEAKER_03It's funny because we've almost been kind of exact opposite of probably the way a house should be framed. We've got way too much wood in the wall, and then we've got big spans on our roofs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Big spans with lightweight ducking, right?
SPEAKER_04Um and then and then I mean the the one of the things you just get that phone call. I need I need another 40 studs. Yeah, I need a 40. Can you deliver? I mean, like, you want another 40 studs? What for? And then you go out and you look, yeah, I can see you blew up you got 44 studs in a 10-foot span there. Of course you need another 30 studs. So the there's a cost factor. So a little education goes a long way and it saves you a lot of money.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's not a it's not a whole lot of it.
SPEAKER_04What's the costume for a two by six uh eight-footer these days, six eight bucks? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah. Um we do teach we are teaching that at the college. We are teaching it.
SPEAKER_03That's good. And I think I think it's becoming it's been around for 20 years, 30 years, but it's coming popular here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think you know the the takeoff that they do at the lumber yard, they aren't they aren't even considering that for the headers or for any of that stuff.
SPEAKER_03Well, they haven't been for a long time. Now I think both of our lumber yards here now are moving to a digital takeoff, and it's new to them. I'm fairly familiar with the digital takeoff because we what we use. Um we all like to perform our own, I'm sure we do the same way. Um but you have the ability to make those inputs into the app. Um at that point you're looking at almost a 3D model of where those studs would be placed, and so then you're just factoring your percentage overage of waste, and it's it's very accurate.
SPEAKER_04Um I think education is key even for the lumber yard takeoff, because even if they are using uh a virtual program for takeoff, they're using LBLs for headers.
SPEAKER_03They are, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And they're and they're stacking two of them with a piece of plywood. Yeah, and you don't it's a waste of money. And then there's your thermal bridging, and then there's no R-value, and that's just part of their takeoff. And so headers alone, if you did nothing else but just change your headers, change your headers to box headers, yeah. Yeah, box headers and and do the corners correctly, that'd be a a good and do your in-walls correctly.
SPEAKER_01That'd be huge. Ladder block. Yeah, I don't care whether you move to 24 inches on center or not.
SPEAKER_03If you just do those two or three things, that's and you you you you introduce a framework to ladder blocking instead of like a C channel block wall connection that they used to do, and they're like, Oh, well, we got enough leftover material, we'll just put some ladder blocking in there. There's a pile of it sitting right there, it's easier to connect.
SPEAKER_04It is easier to connect.
SPEAKER_03Um, and then you can get insulation in that behind that wall.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I've gone back to some of their local framers and I gave them a hole saw. I said, I need you to make Swiss cheese out of that corner so the insulator can get back there with the foam. Because uh, and I told the insulator spray that hole until it comes out of that hole, you know, and that's bad. But that's what I've had to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's um it's something that I think every builder around here should be educating themselves on and incorporating um because it's it's a win-win situation. It's money in their pocket. You they're saving money and they're building a bigger. Money in their pocket. Yeah. Um, it just it just takes a little bit of want to do what you're trying to do. A little bit.
SPEAKER_04It takes a little bit of forethought. Not much. Just I mean, everybody framing, you know, builders that are having their framing done. You you can plan all you want, but at the end of the day, you print that that plan and you get your red pin out and you make a couple notes because you're not gonna go back to the draft or you're not gonna go back to print, you're gonna redline it, and that's that's all there is to it. That's it's in my schedule. Redline the print. You know, make sure the window ROs are there, redline it so you you can attach a couple little drawings, you know, the ones that you have for the optimized framing. You can make a few little things, little notes, uh even put in a little arrow. See this corner? Is what we're expecting. Everything that's got an A would look like this, and redline your plans.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I'd like to see windows put in a little square and not have so much gap on one side in the window frame.
SPEAKER_03The rough openings being frame square and exactly, and the windows being put in level and the door box would be nice, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It wouldn't be like this. Yeah. I started checking with that really cool little laser thing. You know, used to be you just take a six-foot level, try both sides, and you get the little laser thing, and it just shoots a lineup, you go, Oh boy, it's not even making it to the top. Yeah. What's wrong with that picture?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and then it's everybody looking and seeing, and not just one person's eyes looking at the bubble.
SPEAKER_04Right. So and the bubble's got plenty of variants.
SPEAKER_03How many times have you had that drill where somebody sticks a level up there and it's good. It's good. No, it's not.
SPEAKER_04Let me see without my glasses. Oh, that's good. Still good.
SPEAKER_03Maybe well, um before before we really get too far in the wood frame walls, the components of it. Um, and and I think that's a a whole nother podcast on its own. Let's uh let's save that for part two. Let's kind of wrap this one up for part one. Uh, you guys have any kind of closing remarks for for today? Goodbye.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, that's what I was supposed to say. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_04Hey, I don't forget that if you build it, you break it, you own it, or whatever. Well, what's our disclaimer? Yeah. Yeah. You break it, you build it. It's broken, it's not enough.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you take our information and and it's not right. We we hold no responsibility. We hold no responsibility.
SPEAKER_04And then we revoke that free lunch. Yeah. So so yeah, one more um good thought about joining our our association.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um association for me is TPBA, is right behind us.
SPEAKER_03It is. Well, and and that's uh I think that's an advertising slot opportunity up there. Uh, of course, we can do we can do the banners for those of watching you, or we could do um spoken word if you've got something we'd like to uh have our our podcast mention about your company, we'd be happy to bring that on for a sponsorship. Uh that money does go to help support the Builder Association. Um it's a nonprofit, so we do a lot of good things for the community. Uh it's a great networking uh association that we have. That's that's one thing I've really enjoyed with it. I've been able to further my education, uh my relationships with uh vendors, suppliers, other builders. Um and it's it's not only is it really beneficial to you as a business owner, operator, uh, or a person working in that business, it's a good way just to make friends as well. Yeah. Um good connections, it's a good tight-knit group of people that we have a lot of fun with. So if if you're new listening to this podcast and you're not um you know currently actively involved with the association, maybe you are even a member. I encourage you to get more involved. Um, and you know, use those benefits to your advantage. And if you're not a member, um you know get a hold of one of us or somebody that you know is, and we'd be happy to have you for for a lunch and show you some of the things that we have going on there. And um, we're we've got a lot happening.
SPEAKER_01A lot going on.
SPEAKER_03Really trying to benefit the community here is what this is about. This is this this is how this spun off.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we want to I mean we were just hanging out talking about our education platform, and we were gonna bore everybody at the lunch for 20 minutes and then it turned into this, and this is gonna go for a while.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and our goal is not to hey, this is how much we know, it's we want to elevate the community as a whole. Um, I've always said a rising tide floats all boats, and that's what we need with with the construction here in MRL because we are a little bit behind the times in the way that we we construct.
SPEAKER_04We're gonna start having some guests as well. We have a list, and if you're interested in being a guest, you know, um we'll um we get to certain phases uh of our build and we want to get into plumbing and and have someone talk about water heaters. You know, we can get a guest about water heaters. You know, so do we know anybody that knows anything about water heaters?
SPEAKER_02I might know a thing or two.
SPEAKER_04Um speak up. Sorry. Um and so where where's our podcast on?
SPEAKER_03Where are we uh where can you get us? So we're on all the major streaming platforms now. We've we've finally gotten on to We're on Netflix yet.
SPEAKER_04Well, we're not there yet.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I just didn't know. Um we just need a couple hundred thousand more followers. Okay. Not a big deal. Let's get there. Um, but we do have uh we've run Apple, Spotify, I think Google's play, um, all your major platform for listening. And we're on YouTube. And then as far as the visual side of it, we are on YouTube. That link is also on the TPBA website. Um and we'd we'd love to have you listen, uh, comments and feedback on any of those channels we're receiving. Working on setting up a maybe we'll check it, maybe we won't. Depends on how to do it. Exactly. Maybe you can find out how long it takes if you if you do comment on the channel. Um, and we're working on uh like a dedicated email host name. I think that way we we do have a a more instant alert. We have to go back and comb through on each one of the channels for any kind of comments, especially uh YouTube's probably gonna be the more easy to find if you've got a comment. Um, but soon we'll have an email that you guys can send in, comments, questions, or if you want to be a part of the show. Are you gals? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's guys are gals. Guys are gals.
SPEAKER_01Uh I was part of Amarilla College's uh 360 success over the last two days, and I don't know, somewhere between I didn't count them all, but in that one exhibit hall, we probably had five to seven hundred seniors that came through and looked at it, and I was shocked at the number of girls that actually came and looked at construction technology. And so I'm I'm beginning to see a a little tide turn where we're getting women that are coming in the trades, and uh I'm glad to see it.
SPEAKER_03It's a good thing, it is a real good thing, and and not not to get gender biased on on the podcast. Absolutely not, but the you know, women do have a lot of attributes that that are really helpful in construction. That guys have we've been missing in construction, yeah. I think that's uh becoming aware and and we're we're really starting to capitalize on that and yeah, and um kind of not uh advertise isn't the right word, but but help promote bring those in. So anything else, guys? Nothing I could think of. Well, I know we enjoyed it. Uh thanks for you listeners and watchers out there. Um until next time.
SPEAKER_02Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_03Have a good day, have a great day.