Why the Teen Mental Health System Fails and How to Help Anyway

Is your teenager is struggling, and are you done waiting for a broken system to catch up?

In this episode, I sit down with Chris Coulter, a father who lost his 14-year-old daughter Maddie to suicide in 2015. Chris learned the hard way where the public mental health system failed his family, and turned that knowledge into action. He built MindGrade to hold schools accountable for student mental health, and MentorWell to give teenagers the kind of consistent adult presence many of them are missing.

We talk about the early signs that show my teenager needs help, signs that are easy to explain away as normal teenage behaviour, why remediation without prevention keeps failing families, and a statistic that should stop every parent in their tracks: nearly a third of teenagers say they have no one to talk to. Chris also shares what actually rebuilt trust with his own teenagers, and how he learned to get a teenager to open up by offering presence instead of pressure.

You do not have to wait for a system to step in. Learning how to connect with your teenage child can start tonight, at home.

Get my free guide, 8 Ways to Get on Your Kid's Turf, at www.drsuzannesimpson.com

Chapters:
 0:00 Chris's story and losing Maddie
 5:30 The signs that were missed
 9:15 Where the public mental health system falls short
 12:25 Why remediation without prevention keeps failing
 15:30 Rebuilding trust with your teenager
 18:40 MindGrade: holding schools accountable
 27:00 The loneliness numbers every parent should know
 31:00 What to do right now: stop talking, start listening

This episode originally aired June 16, 2025, and the message is too important not to share again.

If you or someone you know is struggling, support is available.
Canada and US: Call or text 988 (24/7).
If you are in immediate danger, call your local emergency number.

Find my interview playlist on YouTube Dr Suzanne Simpson, at Get On Their Turf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC8JprFdrPA&list=PLi7xFsX7h7tdxBsVx38UIRVrvnCc_9IBW

New releases every second Monday 8:00 am PST.

👉 Get the free guide "8 Ways to Get on Your Kids' Turf" at www.drsuzannesimpson.com

Connect with me: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drsuzannesimpson/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drsuzannesimpson/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drsuzannesimpson 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566148964209

Please note that the contents of this website are not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. My scope of practice is as an educator, and this work is intended to provide information for educational purposes only. Testimonials of lived experiences are opinion only and have not been scientifically evaluated.

Transcript

0:00

I'm Dr. Suzanne Simpson and welcome to Get on Their Turf. If you're here, chances are you're looking for ways to reconnect with your teenager when things are tough. This podcast is built on my doctoral research with in crisis and decades of sitting in classrooms with students. And I'm here to help you shift from not only understanding teen behaviour, but to find connection with your kids. Today I'm sitting down with Chris Coulter, a father who lost his 14-year-old daughter to suicide and has spent every year since helping parents connect better with their kids and prevent what happened to his family. We're talking about how to reconnect with your teenager, why fix-it mode shuts teens down, and what it takes to build the kind of trust where a teenager lets you in. We also talk about what we can do as parents in a broken system of public mental health support. So join me now as Chris Coulter and I talk about supporting our kids when our system is not doing what it should. Chris Coulter, thank you so much for joining me from Ontario. You're out of Toronto, I'm good, Hey, Suzanne, how are you? how are you? I'm good, thank you. I am this is a meaningful conversation because you and I connected. We what was that like two three months ago that we had that nice chat on a video call and I've been following your work. So I want to talk to you today about navigating the mental health challenges with. all of our loved ones. Like for you it was Maddie which we're going to get into. But I just feel that there's such a gap and I feel that you've become an expert. Well, when you're put into a situation, you put on your survivor skills and you learn very quickly. Yeah, so tell me about yourself. You can start with family or work. there's a very distinct path without going back to my childhood. back in 2008, I had a successful business with a partner and I, and we ended up getting decimated by the 2008 financial crisis. So we hung on for many, for a couple of years, Great. basically burning through all the retained earnings and cash we had in the business. And ultimately in February of 2010 decided to shut it down. And then from there thinking, okay, that was kind of my nest egg. I had 20 years of sweat equity and I walked away with nothing. Hmm. And I was kind of disenchanted with the whole office furniture business, which was the industry I was in. Mm-hmm. And so I said, I'm going to just do a career about face. So I decided let's change careers instead of staying in the same furniture business. So I did, and then I got separated, went through a nasty divorce, then I decided, okay, I'm gonna start my own business up again, because you know what, going through a nasty divorce wasn't enough, anyway, that ended up becoming a very emotionally draining time for me. And I think it also contributed significantly to the loss of my 14 year old daughter Maddie to suicide. So it's been a... pretty interesting last 15 years for me. How do you... This might be a hard question and I can delete this if you want I've always wondered this because I hear of nasty divorces. I've got a friend, by the way, who just, kid you not, spent a million dollars on a divorce. I'm not kidding, a million bucks. And reconciling that with then your kids and it just feels so mucky and challenging to put those together. Well, yeah, I won't get into this on here, Mm-hmm. but yeah, it's unfortunate that parents can't stay above everything else for the sake of their kids. And it gets nasty, it gets personal, it gets ugly. And no one wins, except war, the person who's got the deeper pockets and well and the lawyers. Yeah, and the lawyers. Yeah, for sure. But anyway, that is the it decimates families, it but it ruins kids. the big thing is, because a lot of kids, it's probably the biggest, it's there. A lot of kids first exposure to grief, like the Mm-hmm. And they haven't been taught how to grieve. So that is a big challenge. So they've got all this pent up emotion. They don't know how to deal with it. And it just, unfortunately, goes in a very bad place. Hey, have seen this and I have no stone to throw. I've just observed this as a teacher, right? I've been would be 20 years right now teaching and watching just the deep like cellular rage of one parent to the next with events that happen and what leads up and. And that you see that in education, we see what comes in. And I've had parents that won't even meet together. And I've had other parents where they've somehow managed to, you know, we're still in this together. that is hard. That's a whole other discussion. Such a complex, complex issue. I don't mean to... It's funny how someone you've decided to spend the rest of your life with all of a sudden goes the most important person to the most despised person. And it's frightening how complex it is.~ so hard. Yeah, yeah. And I've been able to reconcile a lot of things in my life. Mm-hmm. It's the only thing I haven't been able to. Okay, and that makes sense to me. Reconciling that seems to be, okay, let's talk about Maddie. So your daughter died in, was it was 2015, wasn't it? 2015, Yeah, April 2015. okay. She drives you. Like I watch, she drives what you're doing now that we're gonna get into after your work with mental health. But what do you want to tell me about Maddie? Maddie was this she was my firstborn. She was the first girl in our family for a few generations So she was revered as the golden child Hmm. for that reason by grandparents She was she was really smart she was super super funny She had this guttural laugh that just I remember hearing something similar and those are the little details that you don't realise that disappear. It's like her laugh and you forget the intimate laugh that she had. And I remember being stopped in my tracks by someone, some complete stranger who had a laugh that was identical to Maddie and it literally, my stomach went into my gut. yeah. So she was phenomenal that way. She was super kind. And I think that was probably her most redeeming quality. She wasn't one of those kind of mean girls, those conforming to the popular opinion. She had very distinct values and opinions. and she wasn't afraid to express it. And as a consequence, she stood up to bullies, not on behalf of herself because she was really popular. She stood up on behalf of kids who couldn't actually stand up for themselves. Mm-hmm. And when she passed, I received a whole bunch of just special notes and stories that people wanted to share, just the acts of kindness that she had shown these individuals. And as a consequence, she is kind of my motivation to do all the work that I do. Yeah, I want to get into the work that you're doing, but first I want to talk about, if you're okay with going back to this, the glimpses of what was happening with her in terms of then what we can learn from that. what were the glimpses of her challenges that led up to the suicide? I think. The biggest contributor I believe, I think was our divorce. And how she was brought into as a pawn in, Okay. and it put her in an impossible situation. And I didn't want to go down that road at all. And... Anyway, that was certainly, that was a sign, there were signs there that she was like put in, she told me, I feel like I put in an impossible situation and it just was heart wrenching. Changing schools, Yeah. moving, all this stuff, it just weighs on a kid, especially if they don't know how to process emotions, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No. which they don't teach and... not really kind of aware of what was going on at the time. I was kind of limited in my capacity. Although once I realised what was going on, we, I certainly stepped up and tried to figure out everything I could. she did see a therapist and, which I think was helpful to some extent. But it was just, I don't know. I'm not sure when it happened. The divorce certainly impacted it. The moves, the new school. I don't know. There's a lot of contributing factors that probably never were properly processed. And it metabolized into... into terrible depression for. Was okay. So it was the depression then that was the trajectory. the reason I asked this question, like I'm really wanting to be so sensitive to your past and your experience, but the reason I asked the question is I want to know then what did you need at the time, either for supports or information that you either didn't know you need or that you wanted? We leaned on the hospital system here because that was where the really the only place you could go for acute care. And it's intended for acute purposes only. But because Maddie was so loved within the psychiatric unit, they let her extend her stay. First time was 10 days and the second time was almost two months. Was that an acute unit or a tertiary therapeutic unit? She was in a psychiatric Okay, okay. challenge was trying to find kind the intermediary agencies, intermediary care after the hospitals. So there isn't a lot. There's private treatment if you've got the means and a lot of those. are in Canada a lot of them are drug and addiction related, not necessarily depression related. or you can go to the US and the US has lots but it also costs you a lot as well. So I would say that the biggest challenge we experienced was being able to find some place after the hospital to be able to deal with a child that was clearly struggling. You mean in the public system that you have? Yeah. You know, something that hit me like a ton of bricks, in the public system. like a huge aha moment in an interview, well, a series of interviews I did in August. I interviewed a couple of the loss or daughter to suicide. And then also I interviewed a dialectical behaviour therapy clinician who does DBT's kind of, as you know, the gold standard when we're dealing with suicidation. And it... Here's what I had never considered, is that schools refer, refer, refer first of all, at least counsellors in BC, and by the way our recommended ratio is one counsellor to 250 kids, we are up to in this province, one to over 900. And they refer out, but the agencies that they refer to are public of course. And it's the newest kids on the block that go there. Because what happens is once you've had your experience as a clinician, as a counsellor, or even a social worker, you go into private practice where you're making six times more. So it struck me with our public system that I think is important to talk about is that we're using a system that we don't even recognise is not properly positioned. And I don't mean that of any practitioner, but we're sending too many. to the newest practitioners, and I don't know if I've said this to you before, it's like sending me to the brand new cardiac surgeon for a triple bypass, but not just me. You're sending a hundred of me at the same time. Yeah, well, there's a really easy response to that. And unfortunately, I've been fighting this for a while, as a lot of people have. Everyone's focus is on remediation. And the challenge shouldn't be remediation, it should be prevention. And we have the tools and technology to make it happen within the school systems, within... Mm-hmm. within the government works and yet I don't know what the challenge is. I'm not trying to minimise the amount of work that it's gonna take, but the problem is there's no accountability or transparency the school regards to mental health. so you could be the worst provider or the best provider and really there's no distinction between the two. So that's where I think there's a huge opportunity to be able to rate schools on their mental health performance. And not do it from the standpoint of the schools, but do it from the standpoint of the kids, the ones who actually need it. So actually getting them to survey and respond on behalf of their schools. not with the intention of shaming, but with the intention of propping up. We want to celebrate the schools who are doing a really great job, Mm-hmm. but what we also want to do is those who are lagging behind or those that don't the resources or the understanding or the competency in that area, let's start using some benchmarking to be able to elevate these schools that don't have great mental health programmes. Mm-hmm. Because if we're going to wait, if we're going to, if we're waiting for the government or the school boards to do something, it's never going to happen. And that's the bottom line. And, Nope. you know, when I'm sick of all the, the, the pan, the political pandering that constantly gets, gets thrown around everyone, everyone promises, and especially as we're coming into an inevitable federal election and we're having a provincial Mm-hmm. election in Ontario in the next couple of months. It's everyone's throwing around the, yeah, hey, mental health dollars, Mm-hmm. here you go. But there isn't a plan. That's it. That's my fundamental beef. Okay, because you're actually answering my question. I've got number four here. You've just answered. Okay. My question was, what do you see broken in our system? So do you see education and how we work with mental health and schools more broken than our public system of mental health care? And why or not? I don't think it's so much the school system. School system is what the school system is. I think it's our inability to teach emotional intelligence, quite frankly. I'm not pushing this entirely on the schools because Mm-hmm. the schools aren't responsible ultimately for our kids. Parents have to own this too. Parents can, we can... point the finger at the schools, at end of the day, the parents are the one ultimately responsible. problem with parenting today, especially dealing with the emotional challenges our kids are going through, we're relying upon the way we were raised when Mm-hmm. we were growing up and using the tactics that our parents used on us, which is consequences, reprimands, rules, tight ship. Whereas parenting today has got to be a lot more collaborative. Mm-hmm. I think it's not a one vote, one person, one vote. At the end of the day, the parents are still, ultimately, they're in charge and that has to be existent, Mm-hmm. but there's a long way we need to come with this. I 100 % agree with you that parents are stepping up and parents are first. However, I do this in my presentations. From kindergarten to grade 12, Canadian kids spend 15,000 hours in schools, hours and hours and hours. And what I've argued is, You know, people say there shouldn't be mental health in schools. And I said, whether we like it or not, though it is, and we are in a position as educators that this is right in front of us. And so I put a little bit more responsibility on schools, but that's contentious. I'm not trying to diminish either the role of parents in parenting their kids and supporting their kids. But these kids are at school sometimes more than at home. But it's not just in schools and classrooms. It can be in play where you understand about empathy and conflict resolution. Mm-hmm. so there are lots of opportunities for things like that, especially at a young age. Well, I so so here's a little sad story for you. I'm supposed to next Friday be presenting at a nearby school district here. I gave them four options to present like the work that I do. And the Pro-D committee chose understanding youth wellness. OK, mental health, sorry, understanding youth mental health. That's what they chose. They said our teachers need to learn this. And it's from my PhD research. It's from my time at a psych unit. It's it's experiential. What are the kids saying about all of these different challenges they face? Chris. They have cancelled my presentation because teachers have not signed up. They're not signing up. We're dealing with assessment practices here in BC. have new assessment that is, I won't even get going into it. It's just challenging for teachers. We're dealing with AI. Districts around me are choosing AI. That's the focus this year is AI. And so part of my lens is they're not actually choosing to learn about it, but I get it because of all the other things that are thrown onto them that they're dealing with right now. And I argue it's number one, but you you're constantly kiboshed with a list of things in the classroom. Can I talk about kind of the backstory of our programme, MindGrade? Well, MindGrade's up here is the next question, so you can jump to question number eight. Yes, that's fine. Talk about MindGrade. I don't wanna hide. You're holding schools accountable for supporting students' mental health, giving youth a voice in creating real change. Go. So it took me a long time after Maddie's death to just be able to have a conversation, let alone get my head Hmm. out of my grieving state. But eventually I think about after I wrote, I did a lot of writing for those first five, six years, and then someone approached me about getting involved with. a social emotional learning programme called How Are You Feeling? And I looked at it, it was really different than anything I've seen. Mm-hmm. It taught kids how to understand and process their emotions. And they did it in a way that was really fun and user friendly. Mm-hmm. They used clips of TV and movies to be able to depict certain emotions so kids could watch it and relate really, really well. so anyway, it was a big commitment. was a 24 episode, 12 hour commitment, which we moderated. And one particular group that we ran through were eight girls from a very prestigious private school in Toronto. They all said, and this is raging in age from approximately, I think they were 14 to 17 years old. And after the last moderated session, they said, this programme changed our life. And like they could say, Hmm. literally it was, you could tell it would affected them. And that's when, when a teenage girl says something changed your life, you, you better like sit up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You listen. Yep, Right? So they said, yep. we want to be able to advocate on behalf of the programme. What can we do? So I said, Listen, go talk to your principal administrator wellness counsellors. Tell them what you got out of the programme. Mm-hmm. Well, the interesting thing is part of the process is we do a pre and a post survey and 95 % of the kids who participate in this said that the mental health programmes that they received in school was completely inadequate. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. they went to their their wellness counsellor, went to their administrator and said this programme our life and they said, you know what? We already have our own programmes. Really? So they kiboshed any further discussions. anyway, I took a step back. Mm-hmm. I was livid, mostly because of just the gall and the gumption to be able Mm-hmm. to do something like that. I haven't used gall or gumption in a sentence today, by the way. Yeah. That's a good word. That's a good word. Good words, both of them. I took a step back and I went to my friend who owns a market research company and another friend who owns a media company and I said, this is what I wanna do. I wanna start flipping the script. I want there to be better accountability and transparency on mental health programmes in schools. And I want that opinion to come from the opinion of the kids. And so we're in the midst of... We're designing this very, and that's where my research partner is amazing. He's designing something that is going to essentially arrive at a score and taken by the kids. And so from that, Okay. we'll be able to determine whether a school is doing really, really well, needs improvement or failing miserably. So those are some, that's kind of mind grade. we're starting in around Toronto. And then what we're gonna do is we're gonna extend it across, hopefully across Canada and throughout. So what do do with the information then? Because I was reading about MindGrade, that you're holding schools accountable for supporting students' mental health, right? What do you do with that information? Yep. We basically, we just use it to arrive at our grade and then we don't have it shared. But what we will do, if any of these insights we get, we'll give them like a light version of kind of the audit, what came back with regards to what are the kids saying, Mm-hmm. Okay. so areas that they feel that need to be addressed. And then what we can do is we can go and say, Well, if you want to do that, here's this programme here. Or we work with a bunch of educational consultants who can assist in something like this. Or I've got so many resources of different social learning companies and other types of resources that can be so invaluable to these schools. That's where we want to get to. So we are going to have a, we're going to have a grade for mental health. And I'll say mental and emotional health because that's an important distinction because emotions aren't usually talked about in schools. Not the ones that they should be talking about like grief, So in my opinion, with my experience, you know, your number one asset and all of us, your number one superpower. Parents. What's it? Parents drive it. Parents have driven everything. Everything parents have driven. I've seen changes in education I started teaching in 1996 and the changes that I've seen happen and I really feel it's because of parents demanding things from the government or parenting styles that are actually I believe affecting educational practices and policy at our Ministry of Education level and I think this is you know right now I'll tell you where I live guess what parents care about Academics I want you to go to Harvard Law You can't go to the local university here where I live. And they're driving then the academics versus parents saying, need a collaborative support for our kids. Collaborative. thing is, Suzanne, you can't, it's not on a sustained basis. You can't have academic achievement without emotional awareness, emotional support, not on a long-term basis. You can probably soldier through it for a bit, not long-term. The reason I have gone into the world of social media is I started there with educators and I have presentations about, me tell you what the kids say that they need for mental health and wellness. And it also helps your own wellness, but also it affects academics. Like we know that it's researched. We know that when they're connected more to people where they're feeling supported, understood and cared for, that academics are better and kids learn better when they're connected to that human being. However, School districts around me are choosing to learn artificial intelligence over learning how to connect with students. So I've pulled my hair out and I'm actually, I'm passionate about my profession, I'm passionate about supporting my colleagues, but I'm also sorely disappointed with what I've experienced in the last year and a half of launching my work post-PhD research. Sorely disappointed. Like shockingly so, actually. I think that I really, think parents wanting to see different is powerful. But the problem is that they don't all want to see different. They want their kids into Harvard Law. Yeah, but they don't understand that that will come with emotional consequences. And what happens if their kid doesn't get into Harvard Law? Absolutely. I know. Yeah. How decimate are they going to be? I know, know. Right? It's like these kids just they need they need to understand kind of all the stuff all the stuff that it's associated with like pushing all these emotions down. It just needs a place to go. and we know there's research out even about disconnection. Thomas Fletz at York University, and it just came out a few years ago. It's in the book Never Enough by Jennifer Wallace. Really good one, Never Enough. And he has researched and suggests that a third of our youth do not feel connected to anybody in their community. A third of youth. IMI research, the company that I'm working with, same thing. They asked the human connection question. Mm-hmm. And since 2016, they asked, how many friends do you have? And they asked like one, Hmm. one, three, five or more. And then someone said, how about asking zero friends? You know what the scary part is? So that over 30 % said, and this wasn't a COVID, Wow. post-COVID thing. This has been a consistent number for the last eight years Hmm. Mm-hmm. they've been conducting the survey. So it's crazy. There are 30 % of kids that feel they have no friends, Yeah, yeah. or sorry, no one that they can talk to, Yeah, yeah. family or friends. Yeah, yeah. So right there, though, you're outlining a bit of a problem because we need parents on board to go to our schools and say, we want more of an emphasis on mental health and wellness. But if a third are disconnected already, it shows the positioning where we're starting from. So one of the... Things I want to dig in with you today is just this, like what do we do with mental health? So you've started, you have MindGrade for the accountability. We've said that parents, you know, the importance of understanding mental health. And then you also did mentor well, which is mentoring, right, for teenagers. Yeah. Which, well, mentoring is, it's an, it's, an online mentoring service that is, it's, it's not for kids who are depressed or have mental, these mental health disorders. It's, it's these kids who might feel a little lost. They lack confidence. They don't have direction. But the important thing that we're gonna really emphasize is the emotional intelligence piece. How to emotionally regulate, Mm. Right. how to deal with conflict resolution, how to talk with empathy, how to communicate properly. It's amazing how if such emphasis and understanding stipulates that emotional intelligence is a single larger driving factor to success than IQ? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's something that with time, you can increase. I think I'd be spending a lot more time in that area. It just kind of makes sense to me. Yeah, yeah, for sure. okay, so before, I always do three wrap-up questions to take us back to just our initial talk about like filling in the gaps, but I actually wanna know like, what else do you feel that there is that we need to do in our societies with mental health at every age level? Because I think this is just not only teenagers, mean, adults are struggling. what needs to happen in this broken system and you and I didn't even get fully into the mental health public care system. And by the way, like here I'll say NBC, if you have all the money in the world, you could get good care. private, but it's still a good weight. Like here, to wait for clinician, if you've got a suicidal child or even a partner, it is a good four-month wait on the best end to get into dialectical behaviour therapy. Yep, and that's comparable to Ontario as well. Okay, so what do we so it's this is So as far as, I think from remediation perspective, we all know the wait times are ridiculous and the resources are limited. Mm-hmm. I think one quick way for, and let's just use teenagers and parents. Parents have got to do a much better job of just listening and not trying to kind Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. of do the inquisition. What's going on? They think by forcing them to talk, Right. they're going to just all of a sudden spill out all this truth. So I think a really important thing is for parents just to learn to shut up and to let their child talk to them when they're ready. not to force the issue. Because I think once someone, they start talking and then you jump all over them, it's like, whatever. I think if parents did a better job of listening and stop trying to fix and just be a little bit more compassionate and empathetic and be a more approachable and relatable, I think their kids would open up to them. and they would let them in on some of these things that are really bugging them. Mm-hmm. And I know that just seems, I already have a great relationship with my kid. Well, of course, everyone thinks that, but how many parents jump into fix-it mode as soon as they get an opportunity? Mm-hmm. And I think that's where I felt my relationship with my kids really changed was when I stopped trying to... be in their face all the time. And then once I was able to take a step back and go, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you know what, let's just have a conversation and what happens happens. My boys really, we opened up and the honesty came Mm-hmm. and the trust also has to be there. And the problem is parents go, my kids trust me. Well, they don't trust you with, they don't trust you. as much as you think they trust you. Mm-hmm. And that's a sad state of affairs. Hey, it was no different than when you and I were going through being teenagers. Our friends were, they were, they they reigned supreme, Mm-hmm. right? So. Yeah, you know, I think part of a problem though is we parents are busy and we've bought into what our society tells us of how successful we're supposed to be or. you know, I'm going to say as a woman, like, that I can have it all and I can have my career and I could like become CEO and still have kids and still keep my marriage. And I think we've got this rhetoric around us that has parents busier than ever that they're not stopping to lean in and not stopping to listen and you get sidetracked with everything else that we're told. parents have to prioritize it because just as an example, we gave parents equal access to that programme, that How Are You Feeling programme. Mm-hmm. Okay. We said, listen, watch it with your kids and you'll get a ton out of this. Good. Less than 5 % of parents actually took us up on the offer. you And this goes into fundamental components of emotional intelligence and how can you talk to your kids more effectively? Wow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they chose to not do it. So it just... Chris, that aligns with me not presenting next week about understanding youth mental health of what I learned at a psychiatric unit you and I are seeing common denominators here of factors of what's happening that our kids are not okay. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And the problem is parents need to do a better job of stepping up and stop saying, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. that won't, that only happens to other families. Guess what? I said the same thing. Yep. And I think calling it is so important to call it. I'm to call teachers. You need to step up to the plate, and you need to learn what's going on with our kids, because we've got kids that are dying. We have kids that are coming to school sliced up and down, and you don't know it. And we have to call that, because it's just critical. We're at a critical time, I think. Yeah, absolutely. I used to on the side, you know, When I was talking to parents, I would say like, ⁓ what does your kid want to do? Go do it. Go to get on their level. Go take him for a burger. Go take her to a movie, whatever it is. Because my experience as a parent is when I'm taking my kids out and whatever it is, you don't have to spend money. They've sung like birds to me. Like that's when your connection is. Like I'm on your level, not on my level. And that's part of authentic listening, I think. It's been huge. Yeah. car rides, Car rides, I know, right? Yeah. coffees. Yeah. Yeah. I find with Maddie, just watching old time movies, that was kind of our time together, Oh really? Yeah. Wow. right? And the boys, it was on our way to and from hockey all the time. Mm-hmm. And I've made a point of never talking about hockey. Hmm. It was their time to talk as they wanted to. Right, right, so good, yep, yep. Okay, I always do three wrap up questions to take us to my first goal of just what do we do with mental health in this culture when I think we're in a broken system. Here's number one. When Maddie was struggling, and from the start of the struggling to the end of the struggling, what is the single piece of information that you needed most? Like obviously looking back now, single piece of information. probably just being more acutely aware of any signs that she may have been, she may have indicated, and we didn't pick up on things like I'm tired, Hmm. spending more time in the room, as opposed to just kind of justifying it as, Hmm. it's just teenager stuff. You got to take, Yeah. you got to take action and You do. And if you're not listening, and what I used to do with, when I finally figured out that I'm not gonna fix everything for, sometimes I just go in and ask, Mm-hmm. I just hang out with you in her bedroom? Hmm. And that's one way that they would eventually start talking. Yeah, yeah. And that's where the forming of trust or reforming of trust occurs, Yeah. Yeah. right? Can I add to that? I had a aha moment. Well, it was the same interview I've referred to. It's a podcast interview with David and Laura Donovan. And on it, I said, what was the start of this for their daughter, Felicity? And he said she was in her room a lot. But he said, but I was in my room when I was young. We all did. I hibernated. I was fine. And together, it was like, Right. This was 2024. back, I was like 1980s a teenager and you were just in your room and you were just in your room. Now you're in your room. You're with the whole world in front of you and all the things that you are not and the never enough on social media and what you can access. So it was just such a critical moment of parents must know that now in 2025, it's not my own frame of reference to 1984 because the world has changed and just to recognise it we got through it sure uh-huh and I got through partying yeah we now have fentanyl it's just a whole other world we have to change our lens on what we got through Yeah, no, absolutely. Okay, number two. So now, like right now, for parents that are struggling, and I think you're probably gonna reiterate yourself, What's the critical piece of knowledge for all parents to have with the kids struggling? And it's okay if you repeat yourself. I'm wondering if you can like wrap it, really like target it though. I think build your kids trust and don't take it for granted. you And when you ask how they're doing, ask how they're really doing and don't accept fine as a response. I know we hear lots of, I'm just fine. You got to dig in and you got to take the time because they're Mm-hmm. They don't want to open up. They want to share, but they want to feel they're confused too. And they just want a safe space to be able Yep. Yep. to say something without knowing that you're going to jump down their throat. Yeah, you know what? They also want to be pursued. They don't say it. This came out in my research shockingly. They want us to pursue them in terms of maybe, I'd love just to hang out with you, or can I just sit with you, or just pushing a little, not just like what you said. It's not just the fine. Don't accept the fine. But in whatever best way it is, push a little bit more, because we're pursuing our own children. and their wellness, that we're leaning in. So, okay, last question, Chris Coulter. For parents and everyone struggling with loved ones that are having mental health challenges, where is the hope? And where is the most empowering piece of knowledge that brings hope? I think there are a lot of impassioned parents and a lot of impassioned I think there's a lot of impassioned people who recognise that we're in a crisis right now and we need to, Mm-hmm. we can't wait around for the government or the school boards to address it. It's got to be individuals like you and I. and we've got to rally people who are also equally passionate. And I think we're getting there, but it's a little more challenging to mobilize. Mm-hmm. I'm seeing a lot of positive signs that I haven't seen for a while. And you know what, maybe this is this rallying nationalism Okay. or whatever it is. It just kind of has this different vibe right now than it has. And yeah, You know what I'm saying? there's a lot of uncertainty and there's a lot of shit in the world, but at the same time, you know what? Yeah, yeah. So go ahead. You're a part of a very awful club of people that have been impassioned because of the loss of a loved one and a child, that you're doing things with it. It's a gross club to be in, but you are changing things. Yeah, it's affectionately referred to as the fucking awful club. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what it is? Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. That sounds it. Yeah. No, it's and I and I think too, like I know that we have so much aware. Like it's just that connection. Like I, I, I, my kids, that's like, you know, I had hundreds of kids. I was there for five and a half years. The common denominator was a lack of connection. Common denominator. So the hope is it's actually not that hard. you know, connecting with your kids and leaning in and authentically listening and you know, yeah, and accessing things that we can access for support. That's the hope. Yeah, and here's the reality. Most of the kids make it through the teenage years. There's just an isolated number, although it's an alarming number. And once you get through them and your kid kind of finds this path, Yeah. this confidence, this swagger, then it kind of changes for them, Mm-hmm. right? And fortunately, I'm at that place right now with my eldest son and my youngest son eventually will get there as well. But you know what? It's hard to imagine what we went through almost 10 years ago with Maddie and where the boys are now relative to where they could Mm-hmm. have gone. Well, from a parent to another, it's just wrong that you and I are on this stage together, like that I'm interviewing you about the experience that you've been through. And it's just, for me as a parent, it's just, you've walked where I can't fathom. And what I've seen in you though is, you've just done beauty from it. You've, you know, what you're doing to help bring that hope and support is It's, Maddie is my guiding light, so. Yeah. So where can people find you? Online. They can find me on LinkedIn. The Finish Line group is the name of my business. I'm in the midst of totally reworking the direction of it to tie in with my other projects. I'd probably say that the Finish Line group, there's opportunities to be able to reach out if you want to connect with me. And I'm happy to help direct guide so another family doesn't experience the loss that our family's gone through. Mm-hmm. I will put that in show notes on this. And thank you, Chris, so much for your time. Thank you. Thanks for that. Thanks for listening. Now you can subscribe to this channel and click like on the little link below and share this with somebody that needs to learn more how we support mental health when our system is not doing what it needs to do. Stay tuned for next time.