Dan Mullins: My Camino Journey

Dan Mullins is a singer/songwriter, podcaster, broadcaster and storyteller, as well as being a seasoned performer known for his musical journeys.

But taking on a 1000 kilometre pilgrimage along the Camino? That's next level.

In this episode of The Big 6-Oh, we sit down with Dan to delve into his fascinating life journey, exploring the pivotal moments that led him to discover the Camino de Santiago walk. Join us as we uncover the insights and experiences that inspired him along this legendary pilgrimage. 

Transcript

00:01

If you're old enough to remember when phones had cords and the only thing that went viral was a cold, then you're in the right place. Welcome to the Big Six-O with Kaylee Harris and Guy Rawlison. Because who better to discuss life's second act than two people who still think mature is a type of cheese?

00:39

Welcome everyone to the next episode of The Big Six O and alongside me is my partner in crime, Kayleigh Harris. How are you Kayleigh? G'day Guy, how are you doing? I'm real well thanks. Okay, how to introduce this week's guest? I'll give it a go. He's someone that I admire so much and I'm proud to call him a friend. I've known Dan Mullins for probably about 20 years now I think. Dan and I met at a radio station in Sydney where we both worked as producers and presenters.

01:08

And at one stage there, we were co-hosting a show together over the summer period, which was so much fun. Dan has been on an incredible journey in the last few years, which culminated in a trip to Spain earlier this year that I was so lucky to be able to go with him and walk the famous Camino with Dan and about 30 other pilgrims. But how this trip came to be is a story that I think Dan should tell.

01:37

you all. So hello, my friend. How are you? Hey, Kayleigh. Hey, Guy. Thanks for inviting me to be part of this epic podcast. You don't mind advertising it. Well, I just want to point out, you don't have to be six. So the big six, I had to be on our podcast. You just got to have a good story as I just want to say, cause you're not 60 yet, but just as long as you've got a good story and you, my friend have an amazing story. So talk us through and tell us about how it came to be and your journey with your voice.

02:03

I went up to visit my mum on the Gold Coast in April 2023 and sat next to a fellow who coughed on me all the way home. There were no extra seats on the flight. I begged the stewards to help me find another seat and they couldn't. By the time I got home, I knew I was going to catch whatever that guy had. And a couple of days later, I started to cough. And when I say cough, I don't mean like you couldn't possibly control it. And I coughed so hard.

02:33

In my sleep, I was waking up. I blacked out one afternoon on the lounge. I kind of woke up, had to cough to myself. I sort of fainted almost, I guess. And a couple of days later, I noticed that my voice had changed. And I noticed too that it was sore. My throat was very sore and hadn't been sore prior to that. And I eventually beat the cough and beat the...

03:02

flu or virus or whatever it was, but my voice never came good. And it was bird. It felt like it was broken. And I remember saying to my wife, Jen, at the time, I should see someone. So we decided we'd go and see a couple of specialists, one of whom suggested that I get steroids injected into my vocal cords because he could see that I'd coughed so hard. I left a six mil lesion on one of the vocal folds. So we scheduled it and I sat in his rooms and North Sydney.

03:33

the procedure and afterwards he said it didn't work you'll never sing again and I said well I do about 80 shows a year I didn't say say this because I wasn't allowed to speak for 24 hours but I was thinking to myself rather I do about 80 shows a year pubs clubs you know all around the world and what am I going to do now who am I going to be and the receptionist said whoa that was a tough consult this morning wasn't it and I remember thinking at the time

04:02

Well, there are other people getting worse diagnoses than me. So I just knew that I had to take a positive attitude in dealing with this. And so I began a journey of recovery and I was so lucky to meet a speech pathologist who said, I'll learn, I'll teach you rather, I'll teach you how to speak again, but you're going to have to learn to talk differently. And I used to.

04:29

I never really warmed up my voice. I never really treated my voice properly as an instrument as it ought to be. So that was a whole new learning process and a process and actual fact that I came to love and. It took six months before my voice came back speaking. And she said one afternoon, a cold September afternoon, I remember at clear as day, she said, I think you're ready to start to sing again. And I then started singing lessons and five months later, so it was all up. It was about 10 months.

04:59

I started performing again and I got my voice back. So that's the story of the voice. Did you have any doubts along the way, Dan, that you're thinking this just isn't gonna happen? Absolutely. But what I focused on was the faith over fear, believe. I once worked for somebody who said, there's no excuse for hard work. And I was diligent.

05:24

Cecilia, who was my speech pathologist, incidentally, St. Cecilia is the patron saint of musicians. She said, if you take shortcuts, I'll know. And really it doesn't matter if I know, because you'll keep coming back to me and you're paying off my mortgage. But bottom line is, you'll know that you're cheating yourself and you won't get to where you want to be if you don't do it. So.

05:53

Sure, there were times when I thought, this is just not working. This is not happening. And then little tiny incremental improvements I would notice and it would keep me going, encourage me to keep going. So there were lots of doubts, especially when we were singing. But when I started the singing lessons, I was terrible. It was really bad, like really bad. Like I couldn't hit, I can sing in a top C. I can almost hit D on a good day. I wasn't singing. I wasn't even singing. I wasn't even reaching E.

06:22

I was, so yeah, they were doubts guy. Yeah. So Dan, going back to, you know, in the introduction, I talked about how we know each other. You've had an extraordinary career. You've been in radio as a producer for the number one program in the country, but you've got this whole side hustle where you sing and it's your passion and it's your love. And I started, you know, when I met your work.

06:46

coming along to some of your gigs and listening to you sing. And what blew me away about when you sing is your connection to the audience. And the first time I saw you sing at a little pub in Sydney, you had the joint absolutely jumping. There were people, they had to turn people away at the door. People were walking down the street going, what's going on in that pub? And they couldn't fit them in. And you just, you've got this incredible gift when you're playing your music in bringing the crowd in. And...

07:17

I guess my question is your passion is music. You work in the broadcast industry, in the radio industry. How do you marry that? Those two are good, they're a good fit, right? There's a lot of synergy there. Yeah, thanks, Kayleigh. That's very kind for you to say that because I pride myself on my ability to connect with audiences when I play in pubs. And that's what I try to do in my broadcast. And now I'm executive producer of podcasts for a big international media company.

07:46

And that's what it's all about connection. Uh, and that's what it was when I was in radio and that's what I still feel like now and not just in podcasts and in music at gigs, but just in general. It's and we'll, I know we'll talk about the Camino eventually, but one of the things about being a Pilgrim like that is the connection and you yearn and offer connection as well. And that's what I try to do at my gigs. I don't see the point in getting up and playing to yourself.

08:15

I don't understand why people just sit in the corner and don't talk to the crowd and don't encourage the crowd and don't invite the crowd to be part of your journey as well. To me that seems like work. Whereas I have never said, oh now I've got a gig this afternoon or yeah dang, got a gig tonight I'd rather not do it. I can't wait. And that's all about connection. There's a great energy guy and Kaylee.

08:45

you get when that room is pumping like that. Kaylee's talking about the Fortune of War hotel in the Rocks, Sydney's oldest pub. I don't play down there as much as I used to, but I'm back down there again in a couple of weeks time. And when you get that place jumping, there's no feeling like that in the world. It's just pure adrenaline and yeah the connection you can feel it. It's so great. It's all about connection, Kaylee. That's what I strive for, really, if I can.

09:15

Now you mentioned the Camino and yes, we're going to talk about it. Something I wasn't across. Kayleigh educated me on this. And so for those that may have never heard about the Camino, walk us through that and your journey and how it all came about and what is the Camino? Okay. Well, that's probably the good place to start is what is the Camino. It's an ancient pilgrimage that primarily Christians have walked for thousands of years.

09:44

And now, these days, it's a pilgrimage that people from all walks of life, all religions, even those who aren't religious walk. And it's if the most popular route is what's called the Camino Frances, and it winds its way from Sain on the French side of the Pyrenees, 785 kilometres across to Santiago de Compostela in South, North West Spain. Now the English interpretation of Santiago de Compostela is

10:13

St James under a field of stars. So one of Christ's apostles, St James, went to Spain to spread Christ's teaching after he died. He then returned to the Holy Land and was beheaded by Herod and his followers took his his remains in a stone boat and buried them in a field in Spain. They found his remains and built a cathedral to house the bones.

10:38

the Spanish countryside and called it Santiago de Compostela or Saint James under a field of stars. When they discovered the remains, King Alfonso was in Oviedo and he took his entire court on a pilgrimage to visit the bones and thus called it the Way of Saint James, El Camino de Santiago. And these still today, just this last year, somewhere in the vicinity of one and a half

11:07

arrived in Santiago and visited the remains of Saint James, but in the old city there, you go to the pilgrim's office and you get a Compostela certificate to say you have walked, and if you are lucky enough to walk through, walk into town on a holy year, and you walk through the holy doors, you're absolved of all of your sins. So that's the Camino in a nutshell. It is an ancient pilgrimage of almost 800 kilometers.

11:37

that pilgrims have walked for years, centuries, and are still walking it today. And I've walked it four times. It came in my life because my little brother died in 2010 and I was at my mother's house and she had a book that Shirley MacLean had written about walking Camino and is typically Shirley MacLean will be, it was a very out there book and I read it in an afternoon and said, I must do that one day and then.

12:03

Some four years later, I was back again in mum's house because my father had died. And I said to Jen, my wife, I'm going to walk the Camino one day for Brennan and, and dad. And she said, that's a really good idea. 2016. I was supposed to be going to the Olympic games in Rio, but the deal fell through and I didn't end up going. So they, they said, well, just have three weeks off. What kind of three weeks off? What am I going to do? And I was turning 50 in those three weeks.

12:31

And because I was going to be in Rio, we were going to have a party in Rio. And then all of a sudden, oh, now we have to organize the party. We only had a couple of weeks time and it's going to cost a lot of money. I was going to be ended up playing all night in the band. I'd be setting up packing up the next day, paying for everyone's food and drinks. It sounds a little, it didn't sound like a party to me. So Jenny said, why don't you take the money and go and do that silly walk in Spain. And I said, Oh, I don't really have any shoes or I haven't planned it. You know, you've got to plan these things.

13:01

A couple of days later I came home and the ticket was on the kitchen bench, a present for my 50th birthday. And so I walked on that trip, I walked 400 kilometres and I, over three and a half weeks I think, and I arrived in Santiago at the remains of Christ the Apostles and James on my 50th birthday. So it was a very special event and it's still very special in my heart now. This episode of The Big Sixo brought to you by Louis Carr Real Estate, helping people in the Hills District find their dream home since 1992.

13:30

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13:39

So tell us about, since then, you've done a few more Caminos, and how did we come about to the one this year? Because this is where we bring in your new album, and the album is very much a part of the Camino that we both did back in May. Tell us about how that happened. Okay, so during COVID, we did like everybody, spring cleaning, just looking for something to do, and my wife found all these old VHS tapes under a table upstairs.

14:07

And so we sent them off to be digitized and they came back and one of them was a concert I had done in Brisbane in the 1990s. That was a kind of a big deal in the 1990s. And it was this full house, you know, and I was singing these songs and I was thinking, I forgot not even written that song. And Jen was like, this is a great album. This is a great. Like all these songs are so good. And yet we did, they didn't have a home. They didn't make it onto albums. I'd made three EPs and I think three albums with another band. And then I'd made another.

14:36

album myself solo a few years ago. So I thought I'll start thinking about a new album. And then when I got sick with losing my voice, I was determined that I would make a new album. And I wrote about another half a dozen songs through that process as well, because I figured I wanted to stay connected. There's that word again, I wanted to stay connected. So I wrote these songs and during COVID, the record company that I had released my last album on one of

15:05

executives was with a guy called Dan Friser, who's one of the top producers in the country. He's produced Bernard Fanning, Angus and Julia Stone, well everybody, basically the Whitlam's. And he said to Robert after their meeting, what else have you been listening to? What else have you been working? He said, I've been listening to this guy, Dan Nolans. He said, play me some stuff. And Dan Friser, the producer said, wow, I really like this guy. When he's ready to do a new album, let me know. And that guy's going to be a lot of money.

15:35

He's kind of cost a lot of money. So I had 12 songs that we had picked. And some of them are old songs that needed a home. Some of them were new songs that could do with a home as well. So we sent them off to Dan, and he came straight back and said, oh my god, this is going to be fantastic. I can't wait to work on this album. I know just the musicians. I know where we're going to do it. I know how it's all going to work. This is how much it's going to cost. And we both.

16:03

were sat back in our chairs and said, well, that's kind of like too much money. Because normally doing gigs every week. And sometimes I do two or three gigs in a weekend. I have a kitty. I have a, I have a pot of money, uh, put aside for recording and, and doing projects like travel, like travel Canada and Spain and, you know, United States, but been to the States twice in the last couple of years, we used to be shows. No, no gigs, no kitty. So we were sort of, how are we going to come up with this money? And we thought about crowdfunding or whatever.

16:32

And Jen said, why don't you do a Camino, invite people to walk with you. They can pay a fee and we'll do concerts along the way and the fee will pay for the album. So I said, that's genius. That is a genius idea. So we put it out there and within, I don't know, it wouldn't have been much more than a couple of weeks. We had the 30 who ended up coming with us.

17:02

And there, but we ended up with 42 people who chipped in to make the record and we were able to fund it. And it's out now. It's doing really, really well. It's amazing to sit back and watch that. What I say, those, those songs found a home and now seeing that, that home or that vessel that's carrying those songs to see them out in the real world, all grown up, fending for themselves is fabulous. It's the best feeling ever. I was actually listening to it somewhere along the way this morning.

17:30

And we might just take and listen to that now. Somewhere along the way, somewhere along the way.

17:40

I hope you find what you're looking for Somewhere along the way Cellos on a soundboard Beneath the field of stars Laugh from you

18:00

Very folksy, Jack Johnson relaxed, introspective sort of feel about it. It's an earworm. It is. We sang it on the Camino just about every night. I read about how that come about, but can you share that with us as well? Yeah, so in 2017, so 2016 I walked my first one when I turned 50. 2017, I couldn't wait to get back. My family knew it. They said, just go, just go, just go. So I decided the second time around.

18:30

I would walk from Lourdes in France, the town where people go for miracles. I would start there and walk a thousand kilometres, so the distance from Sydney to Brisbane to Santiago, and I would carry a guitar on my back and sing for my supper each night, if I could. Un agama, el pape, el mochipotl vor. So I did. And it was the silliest thing I've ever done.

18:56

because the guitar was so heavy and it was a fabulous trip. It really was just absolutely fabulous, but it was a struggle. I was out in the middle of nowhere and I was walking with sticks because the guitar on my back was so heavy. It was pushing me forward and it's very, very hard to walk like that. You get lots of knee and shin pain and I was in agony. Actually this Flemish doctor said to me, you need sticks. I said, Oh, no one needs sticks on the walk. Miss sticks. He said, try it. And it stood me up, stood me up upright.

19:25

And I found myself on what's called the masseter. That's the middle part, part of the Camino, very dry and barren and so, so flat. You can actually see the curvature of the earth and you're walking westward. Uh, all the time. So I was out there on my own. There was nobody else for miles and miles and miles. And the clicking of the, of the sticks on the ground, click, click, click in my feet, was making like a metronome.

19:52

like that. And so I always sing when I walk because it's a lovely thing to do is you're walking through little sleepy Spanish villages and you're singing all whatever songs, old hymns, you know pop songs, whatever, whatever. I always tell the story of walking through a town called Osobrero and I was with two German girls and they said, oh Dan can you sing for us? And I was singing like a baritone, there's a bear in there and a chair as well and they were saying, well this is a fun song, what's this about?

20:19

Two Australian guys were drinking a beer in a pub that I walked past and I said, you're an idiot, Dan. But so I always sing when I walk and Kayleigh knows that bar too, that we know Severo. And I always sing when I walk. And so I just started to sing words, just whatever came into my head. And I was singing, um, your footsteps by the fountain, carry me away. I thought, oh yeah, that's right. I was in Castro Heros.

20:45

And I was trying to sleep and the girls walked past and their footsteps woke me up and sort of, I remember thinking, I'll just listen to them as I drift off to sleep. They'll put me back to sleep. And I had seen written on a bus seat, believe you can, you're halfway there. And I remember also walking into a town called Laronio and there were pink roses by the riverside and as pilgrims do, you stop to smell the roses. And I bent down to smell the roses and it had a little tag on it said El Camino roses.

21:10

And I walked with an Australian guy, he was so cranky, he scared away some horses in this, these little horses with these long eyelashes. I thought, Hey, that guy's cranky, he's even frightening off the horses, you know. And then another German guy I walked with, he would say, I'd say, what time you're walking tomorrow? And he'd say seven to seven bells to four. So he's going to start at seven and finish at four. So all of these little things that I've seen.

21:33

And then I started singing Somewhere Along the Way. Somewhere along the way, somewhere along the way, I hope you find what you're looking for. Somewhere along the way. I thought, what's that? And so I thought, is that something else? Is that like a Tom Petty song or something? And I sang it again. Somewhere along the way, somewhere along the way, I hope you find what you're looking for. Somewhere along the way. I thought, hang on, The Way? That's a...

22:02

That's really weird. And then I started singing those lines I was thinking about. El Camino Roses, Santo Domingo Cross. There's a church in Spain that has chickens in it. It's a long story. And then I started singing Frighten Off the Horses, all these lines. And I thought, isn't that peculiar? Maybe I've written this song in my head. And I thought, I better won't be able to remember it. Well, I sang it word for word again the second time, start to finish, and then a third time. And I could.

22:31

get to that little town of called Hondanas. I couldn't get there fast enough and I promised myself to, I had to write that song down. I didn't have a pen and paper with me. Didn't think about dictating it into my phone or hitting record either by the way. But I had a promise to myself on that Camino that if anybody asked me to play, I would play. And as I walked into town, desperate for a pen and paper, this bunch of Spanish guys said, El Peregrino.

22:58

El Peregrino Cantante, the singing pilgrim, come and sing for us. And I said, oh, dang, my promise. So I had to go over and sit with them and play. And I thought, oh, I've forgotten that song now. You know, so by the time I got to town, it was like two hours later. I sat down in a cafe. I didn't even pick up the guitar. I just wrote it up and I knew how it went. I knew the chords. I knew the middle eight. I knew everything was there. I wrote it up. It's, it's done. And that later that night in an albergue.

23:28

to give your listeners an idea of what Spain is like. It's so special, so spectacular. The wall that I was leaning against was seven years old. The wall that I was looking at was 700 years old. And I thought, oh, this is a good place to sing that song that I wrote today. And I said, do you mind if I sang you a song that I wrote today? And I played it and played it three times in a row and everyone's dancing and singing it. And the next day I walked into a cafe and an Irish girl said to me, where are you staying tonight? I said, I don't know, I never know.

23:58

why? She said, oh, because I want to hear that song. And I said, what song? She said the song about the Camino that you were playing last night. I said, you weren't there, were you? She said, oh, I know an Irish guy had filmed it and was showing everybody in the cafe. And by the time I got to Santiago de Compostela at the end of that trip, people were singing it back to me. And it's been the most extraordinary journey with that song that just came to me in the middle of nowhere. So fast forward to, I guess,

24:27

um, about a year ago, I went through a very, um, painful relationship breakup and Dan, uh, reached at the same time, Dan sort of reached out to his, all of his, his friends and people on Facebook and everything and, and said, Oh, who wants to come to walk the Camino with me? And I was like, what, what is that? I knew you'd talked about it, Dan, but I really didn't understand what it was. And

24:53

I thought, you know what, I need this for me. I need to go and do this. I don't know what it is and it sounds really hard and I don't know if I can do it, but I'm gonna go anyway. I just feel like I needed to. So we walked the last 300 kilometers of the Camino from Leon to Santiago de Compostela. And I never thought I'd get through it with blisters and everything, but it was fine. I met the most incredible people. And as you said, Dan, you...

25:21

played most nights in these little Spanish bars and cafes. And everyone was just singing along. And the thing about it was it wasn't 30 people walking the Camino. We were all sort of spread out. You could walk with somebody if you wanted to, or you could just walk by yourself. And we had good days and we had really rainy days. And it changed my world so much for the better. It just really helped me in the healing process. And I guess that's the message.

25:52

bringing us back to your voice and the beauty of the Camino is, is, and being our age again, is the healing process when you go through something very traumatic at this stage in life. For sure. Look, we're lucky. We all know people who have died young. And we all know, as we now get to this age, it's our parents who are starting to die off. And so we're survivors.

26:22

Why not make the most of it? And why not share that joy with others? And the Camino is just a great place to do it. If you haven't had heartache in your life, well, you're so blessed you ought to be walking to celebrate that luck. But if you have had heartache, then challenging yourself with a long walk

26:48

is a good way to remind you that if you just put one foot in front of the other, you'll get somewhere and that place will be worth visiting. And if you can take a few friends and family along with you for the ride, then that's life. Sure there's good days, there's bad days, and that's what the Camino is all about. How do you deal with those good days and bad days? You celebrate the good days and you pick yourself up off the floor on those hard days and you say

27:17

Life's magic, man. Life's fantastic. Despite all the heartache, celebrate the fact that we're still here. I was at my brother's 60th birthday a few years ago, and I walked in and one of his old mates said, oh man, well done. You're still here. And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm still here. Well done to you too. Yeah. And we sort of patted one another on the back and he had accidentally said something immensely profound as a kind of joke, but he was right. We are still here.

27:48

And we all know that, as I said, somebody who's gone too early and why not celebrate it? Why not make the most of it? The Camino is a bloody good place to do it. I guess we probably all have our own personal Caminos as well. Um, I was listening to the podcast. I know you've got massive following as far as my Camino and the podcast. Inspirational tales. I listened to a few this morning, but there was one line from a guest, which I took stop from where it was to stop, pause.

28:17

and reflect and that really resonated with me. That's probably something we all need to do, right? Yeah. Stop, pause, reflect. You know, we celebrate, we've so rarely celebrate our achievements. Well, Australians have a funny way, don't we have of not trying not to big note yourself or trying to big note others. We sort of chop down the tall poppies, but I think it's really important that you do celebrate your achievements and that you do step back.

28:47

for a moment, stop, pause and reflect on what you've been able to achieve. And really, when we look at our families, we don't think ourselves or appreciate how difficult and bloody hard pilgrimage it is to be a parent and even a grandparent. Um, it's bloody tough and yeah, stop, reflect, stop, pause and reflect. Why not spoil yourself? And if you have been unkind or, or you have been

29:17

perhaps not as kind as you ought to have been in the past, reflect on that and learn from that guy. Because we all make mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes. But if we don't stop, pause and reflect, then we won't learn from them. So don't brush them under the carpet and...

29:42

hope they'll go away because I'll keep stretching the analogy. You'll trip over that lump in the carpet. One of these days you will. So, so, so reflect on them and learn from them. And maybe you can be a better person yourself. And, and as we all know, a better you is a better person and it reflects on all of those around you and what's not to like about that, right? Dan, how do people find you if they want to listen to your music, they want to hear your podcasts.

30:09

Give yourself a plug. How can people find you? And I'm sure plenty of our people listening to this will want to follow you. DanMullinsMusic.com is the best way to find me and my podcasts. I'll be doing lots of shows coming up before the end of the year. In fact, I'm doing a show in Brisbane and a show in Sydney to launch my new album. And all the details and tickets are available on the website, DanMullinsMusic.com. And there's a link there to the to the podcast to see you. However you listen to your podcasts, you can subscribe. And there's a new episode comes out each Tuesday. In a couple of weeks time, we will have

30:39

hit our 400th episode. So there's lots to listen to there. And you don't have to be a Camino file to like them. They're just inspirational stories and people who sought change and found change and sometimes in the most profound ways. And there are some incredible stories about people who didn't know how incredible they are until they stopped and reflected. And it's a good place to do that. Dan Mullins, thank you so much for your time. Thanks Guy. Thanks Kayleigh. What a pleasure.

31:11

The views and opinions expressed on the Big Six O are personal and reflect those of the hosts and guests. They do not represent the views or positions of any affiliated organisations or companies. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as professional advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for guidance on any personal matters.

31:36

Ah, and before we go, let's give credit where credit is due. Kaylee Harris and I came up with all the genius content for this week's episode. Our producer, Nick Abood, well he keeps the lights on and makes sure we don't accidentally upload a cat video instead of a podcast. So thanks for keeping us on track, Nick. Nick?