Lessons from How to Train Your Dragon (Live Action)

 Aaron and Brash explore the themes of purpose, belonging, and leadership in the live-action remake of 'How to Train Your Dragon.' 

They discuss character development, nostalgia for the original animated film, and the importance of empathy over aggression. The conversation delves into the dynamics of Hiccup and Stoic's relationship, the significance of trust in Hiccup's bond with Toothless, and the broader cultural implications of the story. The hosts also touch on the visual effects, casting choices, and the emotional impact of the film, ultimately highlighting the timeless message of understanding and connection.

Takeaways

Belonging is about recognizing one's strengths.
The live-action remake offers a fresh perspective on the original story.
Hiccup's character challenges traditional notions of strength.
Empathy is a powerful tool for change.
The relationship between Hiccup and Toothless symbolizes trust and partnership.
Cultural norms can be redefined through understanding.
The film explores the theme of flow state in creativity and relationships.
Character development is crucial in adapting stories for modern audiences.
Diversity in casting adds depth to the narrative.
The boy and his dragon trope resonates with feelings of being misunderstood.

Chapters

00:00 The Courage to Belong
01:21 Synopsis of How to Train Your Dragon
03:12 Live Action Adaptation: Need or Nostalgia?
06:12 Character Development and Casting Choices
10:07 Strength Redefined: Hiccup's Journey
17:19 Empathy Over Dominance: The Core Message
23:20 The Strength of Dragons and Their Riders
24:40 Exploring Flow State and Purpose
27:14 The Power of Music in Storytelling
30:14 Hiccup's Journey of Self-Discovery
33:25 Defying Cultural Norms and Embracing Change
36:23 The Evolution of Stoic as a Father and Leader
39:53 The Bond Between Hiccup and Toothless
42:29 The Boy and His Dragon Trope
47:14 Conclusion and Reflections on Ableism

Keywords
How to Train Your Dragon, live action, purpose, belonging, leadership, empathy, character development, nostalgia, flow state, cultural change 

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Transcript

Belonging Beyond Fitting In

SPEAKER_03 0:00

What if belonging isn't about fitting into the world you're born into, but having the courage to admire your strengths despite it? You know what movie teaches you that? How to train your dragon. How to train your dragon teaches you that welcome to Phantom Portals, the podcast that proves your favorite films have something to teach you. If you want more from the movies you watch, then you are in the right place. I'm Aaron, a teacher and a film fan, and today I'm joined by Brash. How are you, Brash? I'm very well yourself. Going pretty good. Going pretty good. And you know what? This week we are looking at purpose, belonging, and leadership without dominance as we deep dive into how to train your dragon, the live action one, the remake from 2025. In this episode, we will also be discussing differences of strength. We'll be looking at flow state and ableism through the characters of Hiccup and Toothless. And we'll also look at how this reframes the classic story of the boy and his dog into the modern era. And we're obviously going to talk comparisons between the original and the animated because how can we not? But if you wanted to navigate down below with the chapter headings in the show notes, feel free to do that as well. But if you're a true fan, you'll listen to the whole thing because we have lots of cool stuff to talk about. All right. But before we get into any of that, before we get into our fandom pulse and our most valuable takeaways for how to train your dragon, Brash is going to give us his quick synopsis. Hello everyone. We begin our tale.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

So how to train your dragon. I'm sure everyone's seen anime movie. If you haven't, do it. Pause, go watch it, pause, go do it, come back. And then if you haven't seen the live action, pause, go do it, and come back. But for those who haven't and are not going to, here's my little synopsis. So in the rugged, a Viking village of Burke, dragons are not a myth. They are a relentless threat for generations. The people of Burke have waged war against the beasts that scorch their homes and steal their livestock. Among them is Hiccup horrendous Haddock III, the awkward, inventive son of the village chief, Stoic the Vast. Unlike his warrior peers, Hiccup lacks brute strength and battlefield instinct, and his attempts to prove himself often end in humiliation. But everything changes when Hiccup manages to bring down the mysterious Night Fury, the most feared and elusive dragon of them all. Yet when he finds the creature wounded in the forest, he cannot bring himself to kill it. Instead, he forms a secret bond with the dragon he names Toothless. Through patience and ingenuity, Hiccup discovers that dragons are not mindless monsters, his people believe them to be, but intelligent, emotional creatures reacting to a deeper threat. As Hiccup trains alongside other Viking teens, including the fierce and determined Astrid, he uses his growing understanding of dragons to outthink rather than overpower his opponents. But his secret friendship places him at odds with Burke's traditions and with his father's expectations. When the hidden dragon nest and colossal alpha dragon threatens both humans and dragons alike, Hiccup must bridge the divide between their worlds.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Very good. And I think the thing that stands out to me most in that synopsis, and we'll jump into our fandom pulse now, our community thoughts segment, is whenever you hear that they're doing a live action remake of something that's animated, it's hard not to think, why do we need this? And one of our uh listeners, the Room Upstairs podcast, commented on one of the posts on our threads and said something very similar. They said, I don't know if we ever need any movies like this in general, but we want to be entertained by movies, but we don't really need them. Now, there could be times when movies also become more than entertainment, but I don't feel like these ones are that, in my opinion. To me, all movies are permissible. I either like them or I don't. And if it's a remake and I don't enjoy it, I can always just watch the original, you know, which is very true and also a good way to sit on the fence. Thank you, Room Upstairs podcast. But for me, when we're talking about whether we need this or not, I usually fall into the category of no. And that is because I have a lot of nostalgia placed in most of the animated Disney movies that are coming through as being live action. This one, however, came out, the animated one, I think when I was in my early twenties. So for me, or maybe a little bit earlier, maybe late teens. So I kind of missed the age bracket, but obviously being a film buff, still watched them. So I know that this film holds a big place of nostalgia for a lot of people. Live action-wise, having seen a few, the only one I really like was the jungle book. And now this one. Brash, thoughts on the live action adaptation.

Listener Reactions And Expectations

SPEAKER_01 4:39

As a whole, yeah, I'm also same, same sort of mindset. Like, especially with a lot of them, do we need them? I'm usually as a mindset, no. Um, but for me, it's not so much the nostalgia of it. I think for me, it is they usually forego the original story for star power. And that's what annoys me the most. They'll throw all these big stars in it, change it all so they all get their big star moments, but then completely throw off what the actual movie was about.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yeah, and they'll lose the heart of the story. And I actually got a quote from Dean De Blaus, who was the director, and he was the director of the animated ones as well. And he actually insisted on directing, having written the screenplay for the three animated movies, because he knew the characters so well and he knew where the heart of the story was. So he thought that by making this live action adaptation himself, coming from the animated background, he could make it more mature and dark in all the right ways to appease the same audience that loved the animated feature. Obviously, because he knew how these characters grew over time, and he knew what he could deepen without compromising story or heart, which I think was very true. I think everything that he added into this movie did so to explain something more, which was like really good to see. And the things that he took away in terms of like some of the scenes in the middle of the movie, one example I know off by heart is where Hiccup snuck Toothless into Burke in the animated movie, and Astrid sort of starts to get wise to his his game before she discovers that he's got toothless. Like that was sort of cut out in the middle of it, I think, for like timing and pacing purposes. Yeah. But I think for the most part, what was left in and what was developed was really strong.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

And and it was covered pretty well, because like Ashrid, like he all of a sudden can like pain and corral these dot dragons all of a sudden. So she gets a little bit suspicious. So instead of catching him at nighttime trying to get toothless into the village, it's more of a he's like, oh yeah, gonna go like he does in anime. She's like, where?

Keeping The Story’s Heart

SPEAKER_03 6:46

And then follows him. Yeah, it was kind of more like it's very believable as a kid's movie for them to be like, hmm, I wonder what's going on, head scratch. But then when you're talking about this live action one and you want the characters to be a bit believable, it probably is believable that Astrid being as smart and capable as she she is as a character would kind of come to the conclusion and investigate that herself. So yeah, decent change on that one. Another development that I saw from the animation from from the animation to the live action was they deepened some characters in particular, like Snotlaut, the character of Snotlaut, you saw they included his father and a disapproving kind of relationship that really mirrored hiccup and stoics in a in a kind of different way. So, I mean, those two being not really the best of friends had something that they could bond over or relate to with each other with. So I I kind of like that, but it also added a little bit of comedy throughout when he's you know, at the start of the movie, he's trying to get some accolades off his father, and he says to him, you know, don't talk to me in public.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

I thought that was very good.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, no, no, that was really good. And then like yeah, at the end, he finally gets like the sort of a thumbs up. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

And you know, same way that Stoic does for hiccup as well. One of the things I did want to talk about as well is the the casting for this movie. And we were talking about Astrid earlier, but I know that when it was revealed that Nico Parker was going to play Astrid, there was a little bit of uproar because she obviously doesn't look like the animated character. I actually really liked the way that they I really liked the way that they they explained that in this movie. I thought it was really like well done, you know, instead of all of the the Burke people looking Scandinavian, they kind of were the amalgamation of different Viking tribes used to combat this dragon force at the last little breath of civilization, as you know the dragons were coming and they were trying to find the nest.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, we and you may scold me, because I can't really remember all of the stories for all of the How Meshic Dragons. But we don't actually see any other civilizations besides pretty much Viking ones, except for those the ones, the bad guys in the I think the second one or the third one. Yeah. They're still Vikings, but they're more pirate ish Vikings.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Yeah, I'd agree. And they kind of have like facial tattoos, which I know a lot of sort of Anglo-Saxon tribes had historically, so maybe that's like the British sort of influence there. But you're right, there wasn't very much racial diversity, you could say. But I think that they explain it more.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Which it means makes that it makes a bit more sense than as in like maybe this world is just a purely like Viking world where really the only civilizations are Vikings and they're still all different kinds of people, but they're all just Viking people.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah, yeah. And and you know what? I think that in in that diversity that they used for like Nico Parker did a brilliant job acting in the role, and I think that she brought a really good confidence to that role of Astrid as well, and I think her confidence really challenged Hiccup's character in terms of his anxiety, but they also like brought out the best in each other. Like Astrid's confidence was reflected onto Hiccup as he sort of started to emerge as a person, but then also Astrid sort of softened in relation to hiccup as well, when he was a little bit more gentle towards the dragons, where she was a little bit more aggressive, which obviously as well is a flip on traditional like gender tropes, because generally the boy is the sort of more aggressive and masculine one you could say in that respect, and the girl is is more soft and and caring. So I like the way that they sort of flipped that as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

The only thing I was like, eh, that's a bit disappointing. Um and the twins.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yeah.

Smarter Changes To Plot Beats

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Because like in the in anime movies, they uh they always get like sort of confused with each other, and yeah, they were pretty much they're meant to be like they're meant to be like mirrored people, and the two actors they got like the two people like doesn't worry me at the end of the day. But I was just like I think they missed out on some of the twin fun that they had in the anime movies because of it.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

I can agree. I think that that Harry Trevorend, who played Tough Nut, the boy, he looked like a spitting image of the cartoon, I thought. But then the girl, Bronwyn James, who played Roughnut, I think she was sort of not looking like the the twin so much of the brother there. But one thing that I loved about the cast was obviously they had the return of Jared Butler, who played Stoic the Vast. I mean, there are actors who would not want to play a role twice because they feel like it doesn't add anything to their their catalogue, you could say. But I feel like he felt like there was more that he could give in this space and into the live action space as well. The physicality he would bring to the character and that emotional representation between himself and Mason Thames as as hiccup, he could really bring something to that because I I've read as well that during the filming of the the live action version, he actually lost a family member, and through that he was able to sort of honour them with his his presentation and his acting of stoic, but he was really able to pour into the father-son relationship dynamic because of the the disconnect, but then also the connection that happens at the end. So I really feel like Jared Butler's edition kind of made it. And Mason Thames, what did you think of him as hiccup? Because I know Jay Burchell, who did the voice in the animated series, he is a fan favorite and he's got a very distinct voice which adds to the character.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

He does, yeah, and I I think Mason did a very, a very good job. Like sometimes, and most of the time, like I I like I watch him like, oh damn, he looks just like he looks he seems like hiccup. And then there was other, but then other points where I see him, I'm like, he looks too goddamn handsome to be that's true as well. He's too good looking and he's too like even though like because Hiccup's meant to be like this little weedy guy, but um like he like dude's a good-looking dude.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Absolutely. Yeah. I think for for him as well, I'll be interested to see because they can obviously take some liberties in animation. As he sort of grows in number two and number three of the animated ones, you can definitely see a physical change because he takes on different roles, obviously, in his his tribe in Burke, but then also he gets older. So I'm wondering, with these ones being filmed sort of pretty closely together, how they're going to make Mason Temps look like he is aging into the character of Hiccup as he kind of gets older, especially like number three, where he has like the beard and he's in dad mode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

I I don't think the animation changed that much.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

It's the first- They just slapped a beard skin on him.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Exactly. It's just the same hiccup, they just slapped a beard on him.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

I honestly do feel like they did a good job of making those other Vikings look really burly and huge because that physical the physical difference there is really important because it highlights what, and I'll put this in quotation marks, what hiccup lacks.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

And and what they see culturally, we'll get into this a little bit later, is that he's obviously weaker because of his diminutive size, but he has strengths in other areas too. So I think that was something that the director really wanted to convey and keep when he was doing this live action. I think they did a good job of that too.

Character Depth And Parallels

SPEAKER_01 13:42

But like you can see it with the costumes that they're wearing, like um, like the like a lot of the bulk was built up with the armor they're wearing, like uh Jared Butler. Yeah, with the armor and the furs, it just made Jared Butler look exaggeratingly big. And uh the same with Nick Frost, because Nick Frost has lost a lot of weight. Absolutely, yeah. So uh to him to make him look like Gobber, like and Gobber in the anime is like a pretty hefty dude. So they aren't they did a really, really good job. And even with the all the kids, I think all the kids were casting like very well, like um Julian who plays um fish legs.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

He was he was amazing, and like when he when he does the when they get told about all the different dragons, he like does all the stats rattling off the scores.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah. But we're talking about how how good the cast look and the characters and the costume, it obviously looks very good. What about the the the famous, most famous, and probably the way that people are most critical of movies like this, the dragons, the animated dragons. Going from the animation to this live, we'll put in quotes live action, because obviously they're still animated dragons, but they're they're looking a little bit more real. I would say, out of all the dragons in How to Train Your Dragon, the live action version, I think the worst-looking one is Toothless. And I'm sorry, but I feel like he has been, he was made a little bit too cute, you could say. And I know that they need him to be because he's got to be expressive. And I think I actually watched an interview where the directors and the creative consultants were saying, you know, we we did make him look very realistic, but we couldn't make him be as expressive as he is in some of the scenes that he needed to be without the big cat-like eyes and tongue.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

And I that's uh probably the thing I can forgive because like in the second one when he meets the is it the second one when he meets the white the third one.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

That's the third one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

And he does a little dance. Yeah. I couldn't picture a like a more like I couldn't picture a realistic, more scary looking toothless doing that funny little maiden dance.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They've they've definitely future proofed it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

But but yeah, I think all the rest of them look really well. Yeah, I can't the thing I like the most about it is they are just pretty much just more realistic versions of the animated version. It's like they just took the anime version and just it up a bit to make it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Unreal engine filter.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Exactly. And no, I think I love I think that's what I like the most about it. Like they haven't tried to overreal like make them over-realistic. They sort of sort of still kept that fancy animated charm to it. Yeah to all of the dragons.

Casting, Diversity, And Worldbuilding

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Yeah, and I think the way that they moved and the way that they kind of expressed themselves in an animated form was really good too, very much mimics the original animation. So I think they've they ticked a lot of boxes, and for me, I'm gonna talk about this scene a little bit later, but even this this especially well done were the scenes when they've done toothless and hiccup flying. So I think just the animation and the landscapes that they used in this was absolutely phenomenal and breathtaking. Burke looks beautiful, and even the massive dragon at the end and the set that they use for that, or the animated space they used for that. I think that they've done a really good job of blending animation with realism, which is what you want from one of these live-action remakes. And I think it stands as probably one of the top ones, if not the top animated remake that I've seen to date. Hands down. It's probably one of the best. All right, let's move into our MVTs. So this episode we're exploring how purpose and belonging emerge not through dominance, but through empathy, craft, and connection. A couple of things I want to talk about in terms of this one. First off, is how Hiccup is defined within his tribe, so or his clan. So if we look at this, Hiccup is obviously, as we said, a diminutive sort of Viking character. He is from the very first scene, he is looked at as misaligned, you could say. He hesitates, he observes, he invents, instead of goes out and fights. He's definitely more moral and more intellectual than his Viking counterparts. And, you know, through this movie, we learn that Hiccup isn't weak. He's kind of incompatible with a broken or outdated definition of strength for the the Vikings of Burke. And I think that throughout the course of this movie, strength in Burke is definitely an inherited behavior, and it's something that's happened generationally. Obviously, they've been very because Stoic even says it. He says, you're not a Viking, you're something else, and he can't really define what he is. But I don't think it's like Stoic rejecting him as a son. I think he just he he's kind of confused as to to what this sort of being is and and where his son fits in the framework of of Burke. And you know, he he kind of leads with thought instead of force in that way as well. And hiccup definitely has his unique strengths, but they're not the strengths that his cultural environment foregrounds or accepts.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Felt a sort of like anime trope come from it. Yeah. Because you see, like most animes, and even nowadays, always have the trope of the hero is generally not always the big strong guy. It's the usually like the like especially the Isekai sort of genre where they come from another world, they come in with like the extra smarts that the other characters in the anime don't have and are able to get ahead because of that outside the box thinking that they have compared to all the other characters, which I think is what pretty much is hiccup. Hiccup's the out-of-the-box thinking character that always wants to look for new and better ways to do things.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Yeah, I um it's very definitely a trope in a lot of different media where the one that looks different always has something to hide. I can even think of it in like in The Simpsons when all of those mafia members are fighting in front of Homer's house and Marge is trying to bring him inside and he goes, But that little guy hasn't done anything yet. And then he literally walks him inside, and then obviously the little guy kicks everybody's ass. But I think you're you're absolutely right when you say hiccup has his own sort of strengths, because as soon as that that happened, you know, he started inventing. You can see him are building these various different like tools to fire bolos at dragons. So he's trying to fit in the best way he knows how, but they're not respecting the fact that that is also valuable, not just how his father does it, which is the scene pretty much directly after that, where he literally boxes a dragon that's spewing fire off everywhere, a very big show of manliness, but you can see why he's been labeled the chief, because he does embody all the values that the Viking Berks have. And you know, you could even argue that that Stoic's position is a little bit difficult too, because as the chief, having a son in that sort of space may be a source of shame for him. And I think that through this movie, Stoic does a really good job of like doing his best to accept his son. And I think he's working, he doesn't have the tools yet to work with his son in the way that he needs, because he's he's wearing a lot of hats, so to speak. Like he's got to be a father, he's got to be a leader, and he's also got to like go out and protect the interests of Burke. So I think the movie talks about strength in various different places. And when hiccup partners with Toothless, that is when both of those characters begin to be reframed in terms of strength, because they're kind of both like failed weapons, you could say, because hiccup is is a failed Viking, that he can't really do anything in terms of killing dragons or fighting. In fact, he says, I couldn't kill a dragon, like I just wouldn't do it. And and Toothless is like he he can no longer fly without any kind of assistance. So, as most things are in the wild, if they're injured and they're left to their own devices, he would definitely not survive. Without those tools and without each other, they kind of need to become something new. And it's a partnership that's built on trust as well. So that takes strength in itself to overcome those adversities and then still succeed and not only succeed but thrive. So the partnership between him and Toothless is fundamental for this movie as well.

Performances That Anchor The Film

SPEAKER_01 21:43

One of the things I I loved from the original that they also brought into the new one, the live actor, is the line when I think Tickup's talking to his father, and because obviously until we find out the later movies. Stoic's wife and Hiccup's mother they think has was killed by dragons, which leads to this extra hatred towards dragons and hinders the acceptance and understanding between Hiccup trying to get the other Vikings to understand dragons better. But the line is uh line is um when Stoic says they've killed hundreds of us, but then Hiccup says and we've kid killed thousands of them. Yeah. But that number is what gets me. So realistically, like rarely ever, it seems, because this has been going on for however long, only hundreds of people have been killed by the dragons, and yet they've killed thousands. Yeah. Meaning, like so dragons aren't inherently trying to, like, it makes you think, especially especially when Toothless and Hiccup become friends and everything like that, and how quickly the dragons assimilate into the the village life at the end. Yeah. Yeah, it shows that the dragons necessarily weren't ever trying to go out of their way to kill any of them, and realistically probably only did so because they were being attacked by the Vikings. Whereas the Vikings just went out and sorted them all.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Yeah, and they literally moved their like Burke in this movie in the live action one is is positioned because it's closer to where the dragons are. So I I never actually thought about that, but you're you're right, because the dragons hold the capability to probably wipe them out if they want to, especially when we find out the sheer number that exist when they end up finding the nests. So I think that they're definitely a creature that wants to be left alone, and hiccup sort of discovers that through his strength and curiosity and inventiveness as well. But yeah, you're definitely right. And I I also think that like the the dragons in the way that they are, they hold a different kind of strength in terms of the way that they all look. So, you know, fish legs is one who can say, this one has like a jaw strength of whatever, and this one has like an acid strength of something else. So there's like diversity and strength amongst the dragons too, and they align with the diversities of their riders later on. But I think like that's foregrounded by the fact that hiccup and toothless kind of do it first and they break those barriers of of what strength is, and it's not really a deficiency. It's more like it's uh it's a difference, but it's not a deficiency. Another thing that's really highlighted in this movie is something that a lot of people call like flow state or purpose. And I've seen it a lot in the test drive sequence. And also through any time that you see hiccup really inventing something because he's literally diving in headfirst to the thing that he loves the most. And when you're talking about flow state in psychology, you you need to have a clear goal. So let's take the test drive flight, for example. Having a clear goal was obviously keeping Toothless flying and keeping him aloft. And then there's also immediate feedback that needs to happen. So every movement mattered, like every time an air current went one way or the other, he got immediate feedback to say that he needed to correct. The skill level matched the challenge. So Toothless was an experienced flyer, but unfortunately, he needed to completely trust Hickup, who was at a skill level below him. So that the the fact that they were at two different skill levels, but their skill level kind of matched out was was really sort of important for this flow state to occur. And then you also have to have a loss of self-consciousness. So this is when if you've ever done something, you literally lose track of time. And you you might be writing a story and then seven hours pass by, or you could be like on the tools and building like something out of timber, and then suddenly, you know, the streetlights go on. So it's and this happens during the test flight scene when he he loses the instructions and he starts to do that deep dive and then immediately kicks into just instinct, and you see them like turning and moving and flowing in that space. And this happens in a cycle. So the immediate feedback comes and you react to that feedback, and it just continually comes until something is is built as a result of it. And in this case, it's the relationship between hiccup and toothless, but it's also the ability to fly in this state. But I th I think this is one of my favorite scenes because it's not just about flying, it's about entering that flow state for the first time. And it really shows their trust beginning to develop and just how instinctive that bond is as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, and I it was really well done. Because I loved the whole it's sort of like the training montage with them, like using the wing currents to sort of simulate what would be like the fly, so you can make the calculations and make the tweaks, and he's like, uh, so if the if P wants to go this way to tweak the wing uh the fin this way.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Yeah. Yeah. You know what really got me when I watch this test drive flight scene in the animated version and in this live action version? It is the swelling of the soundtrack. Like this soundtrack is probably one of the best ever put to film. Like it does not fail to give me goosebumps every single time. Like it perfectly matches because the the sound that you're hearing is is like adventurous, but it's also like a little bit sort of risky. And there's like the the deep bassy sort of undertones that really show you that what they're doing is something dangerous as well. And it really just accompanies so well. And I I love when music, and if you've listened to this podcast, you know I'm a movie score guy. Like I'll I'll listen to them in the car, and there are always one or two of them in my Spotify top 10. And I just think this one here for flight test drive is is perfect, accompanied with the fact that you know this is the first time hiccup is fully aligned with his skills, his values, his environment as well. And yeah, it's just instinctive and the music hits perfectly. I love it.

Costumes, Scale, And Physicality

SPEAKER_01 27:31

And for any of those wondering, I think I know which part that you like the best, is from 30 seconds in. 38 seconds in.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

What do you mean? So if you look at the test drive in the soundtrack, if you move 30 seconds in, it hits that that sort of crescendo. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

It's literally like we could do it, but you know. Yeah, fucking perfect. It's uh classic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

So it goes from it goes from 38 to 30 second 38 seconds in is when it hits up and has that beautiful melody, and then it goes back down again, and then at the end it hits that really big sort of hits us right again, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

But you know, I really like it because I think it emphasizes that flow state, but hiccup goes into that state on a smaller level before that while he's like unintentionally researching the dragons as well, and then utilizing that skill in the arena. But like the arena's kind of different because if you if you look at him up here, there's no audience, there's no expectation, there's just him and his dragon. But in the arena, there's obviously a presence, there is expectation, there is judgment as well, and there is also competition, which sometimes doesn't assist in this sort of flow state or this purpose of really upskilling. But I really did like how hiccup used his strengths in that space and his intelligence to become, and they what did they call it, top slayer as well. But he wasn't really slaying the dragons, he was just fighting a different way, and I think it's like to incapacitate them.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah. Yeah. But I think like the thing is the way they sort of got around that is the final whoever got the most points at the end. Had to kill, like, was get able to kill their first dragon.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

Yeah. And I know you can you could look at the plot hole and be like, well, why didn't he just lose on purpose in terms of like when he knew that that was coming? Yeah. And uh, you know, I don't really dunno if there's a a plot mechanic reason, but like characteristically, he he just had that conversation with his father, and he was so pleased with him that they had something to relate to and talk about now, and there's that awkward moment where Stoic sits him down and actually explains that he's just like, we finally have something to talk about, and then they sit down and they have nothing to talk about. Yeah. But yeah, he he also had that pressure not to let his father down, which isn't there when he's obviously in his flow state when he's with his dragon as well. So he's able to excel and exceed even more because there isn't that guilt associated with with how his his dad sort of perceives what he's doing, which is a whole nother sort of aspect of this movie that we can look at as well. But yeah, flow happens when fear leaves the room, is what people say. Yeah, I I think hiccup doesn't really discover who he is in that moment. He just finds and or he stops hiding who he is. So he he really sees a value in it after that. And that was also see how he was like flying and seeing everything in in this really impressive way. When he wanted Astrid to see things from his point of view, when it was revealed that Astrid found out that he was in cahoots in cahoots with a dragon. Um that's literally what he does with her too. He takes her flying, which is a very reminiscent sign of one of our favourite Disney movies, Aladdin, when Aladdin and Jasmine go on the magic carpet ride, they went on a magic toothless ride. But yeah, you can see the power of it. And and not only Astrid seeing how toothless is as a dragon and not really being aggressive or domineering or lethal, like potentially potential to be lethal, but not being lethal, but just seeing hiccups' relationship with that dragon and how they can work together to to achieve a goal.

Do The Dragons Work Onscreen

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Like with Toothless 2, when Astrid's first like tries to check Toothless, and then so Toothless and her are at odds, the Toothless way of getting it is to try and get her to apologize is by going recklessly, flying recklessly until she finally apologizes, and then he goes and goes, Well, now that we're friends, this is what it's really like.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Yeah, yeah. I and I think that was good because he he firmly held the boundary, which was good. But I, you know, he also wasn't lethal going back to what we said before because he's playful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

But yeah, it was all playful and sort of uh fun and games, especially for toothless. He was enjoying himself. But it was just um, I think like hiccup and toothless are now both on that same page and are so in sync now that they both want to try and show everyone a better way than just fighting and killing.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Yeah, and you know, that's at odds with that cultural expression that we talked about earlier, where Stoic and the Vikings have lived this way forever and are literally given up and sacrificed so much to find the dragon nest and kill all the dragons and bring peace to Burke, that that's the conflict of the of the entire movie. And I think like Hiccup said it best, you know, I I'm not the dragon killer you think I am. And I like how he first I won't say tested the waters with Astrid because she kind of found him out, but once he found out that Astrid could be convinced, I feel like that also gave him the confidence then that he could change the norm through self-expression, and then that leads to that scene where he he says in the arena when he's supposed to kill the the dragon in front of everybody, he says, No, you all need to see this. And I think that's a really good way in a kid's movie to show because he wasn't staging a rebellion, as a lot of movies do show, that if you want to change the norm, sometimes you have to be a little bit violent and stage a rebellion. Yep, revolution stage that rebellion. But he doesn't really do that. He kind of peacefully says, I'm just not going to kill this dragon, and you're going to see that it's not going to hurt me either. And he he models a better way so clearly that the resistance collapses under its own weight until obviously panic sets in. And and Stoic kind of ruins that and puts his own son in danger. But again, he's he's got this sort of insecurity that we can talk about a little bit later too. But the cost of honesty brash.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

To the the slayer.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Yeah. So in that moment, yeah, in that moment in front of everybody, he literally defied a cultural norm and was like showed an honest side of himself, but also an honest thought that he had as to a way that something could be changed. And, you know, you could you could look at it this way as well. Like when we were kids and we were like playing games all the time or like doing things on the on the computer, the generation before us used to tell us to get off those screens, you know, and that it wasn't really good for us. And then now so many revolutionary jobs have been created as a result of it. And then it's almost like the generation that come before will look at what the generation or the earliest generation is doing and have a real problem with it because it doesn't fit with what they're used to. Used to. Yeah. But then, you know, sometimes it leads to the best changes in history.

Flight Sequences And Visual Awe

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah. And like I understand also like where the Vikings are coming from, because you know, traditions, everyone has their traditions, everyone has their things they grew up with, and the things that are like deeply ingrained in them for Vikings, the Vikings and how to trade like their whole society is pretty much built off dragons bad, kill dragons, and to have something and have to have to be able to I actually give kudos to the Vikings to be able to flip so quickly after the incident. Because it's not as if a whole bunch of dragons came like came in, like all except the dragons that the kids were running. It's like all the other like all the dragons that came to save them or anything like that. It's just that they saw that their kids were using dragons to fight the big bad dragon. But the thing is like still the main bad guy was dragon. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. But at the same time, they were able to completely forget about all their well not forget, I'm assuming, but like to loosen their stranglehold on their beliefs enough to be able to then coexist with the other dragons so quickly, like have to be a kudos to it. I wish more people in the world were able to do that as well.

Purpose, Strength, And Misfit Power

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Yeah. And I and you know, I think that it's definitely hard to do, but they were able to identify the fact that a lot of their prejudices were coming from an quote irrational fear. And and, you know, that's a lesson that you can bring into a lot of different real life settings, but change is is extremely hard. And obviously it's been idealized in this movie, but you can also look at it in a sort of smaller lens in terms of like, for example, in classrooms today, when I'm when I'm a teacher, there are very few times where I see a child going through a difficult time where a lot or most of the children around them or see that children that child aren't empathetic or kind. So I think like that generationally has come a long way in terms of how people treat one another and how people see challenge and things like that as well, and difference. But yeah, I think Burke's belief system prior to this incident was very much built on fear. And we talked about Stoic's fear earlier and his prejudices and grief around the fact that Hiccup's mother had been taken and gone. So he's battling this internal battle as well as trying to raise his son, who he feels conflicting feelings for in terms of him being the clan leader and his son not being a representative of what that clan represents. But he still kind of does the right thing anyway, swallows his pride, which I think is a really big growth factor for Stoic too. Because you could look at him as being like the masculine figure of the movie, but he is still with a name like Stoic, but he is still flexible in that way. And I think that was really, really well done in terms of the complete arc of that character. And yeah, as a as a leader, I think that's a definitely a beautiful trait for them to show because it shows maturity. It shows that he didn't really abandon the tradition, but they refined that tradition because they didn't give up everything that made them Vikings. But you can see that the longhouses, for example, they're still looking like the longhouses that the Vikings used, but they've now got like dragon perches on them. So they've integrated these dragon nooks now. Yeah, dragon nooks into society. And even as a father, you know, he's becoming less about moulding his son into what he wants him to be and more about recognizing what he is and what strengths he brings. So yeah, that that redefinition is very important too.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

But there's like the scene where he rescues Toothless. Like he sort of think that's the moment where he's like he thinks more like a father than he does as a Viking chief. And says, I need to help my son, he can't do this alone. And then like it sort of gives you that little fake out of him pulling hiccup out, thinking that he's only gonna say hiccup and let toothless drown. But then he goes, nah, and dives in because he knows he has the strength to release hiccup where hiccup was failing because he lacked that sort of strength to break those chains, whereas Stoic had that strength to do it. So Stoic's like, let me Yeah, yeah. And I I really like as your father, let me help you, my son, yeah, accomplish your goal.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

I mean, it goes back to the the same thing we were talking about with Hiccup and Toothless, where the the strongest thing that those two characters do is they rely on each other, and in the end, they get Stoic to do the same thing because he gives up his his fear of dragons, his obvious prejudice, and he goes down there and he uses his strength to help them, so in turn they can use their strength to to assist. But like the look of absolute pride that you see on some of the Vikings' faces when their children come through riding the dragons is is probably one of the best parts of the movie too for me because it shows that that's when everybody starts to connect the dots together too. They're sort of like, okay, and you might be cynical about it and say, Yeah, these dragons could be really useful to help us kill other dragons. Yeah. But tools. Yeah, but I I think the movie goes in a good step in terms of like integrating into the society and not just using them as a weapon to to appease and a means to an end. So yeah, and and the relationship that hiccup has with Toothless as well is mimicked by his friends who eventually do end up having a similar relationship to their dragon, also. And you can see it not I wouldn't say symbiotic, but I'd say it's definitely reciprocal. I also think that Stoic, by allowing his son to be recognized for the strengths that he shows and loving him for that, it it he he doesn't lose his son by listening to him. They end up finding each other and their bond becoming even stronger as well. And you know, I think leadership for him happens the moment that pride steps out of the way. And yeah, I think his growth, Stoic's growth, is is really important for the movie as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

I don't remember if it's in the first one or it might be the second one, because Stoic gets his own dragon. He does, yeah. And does he also lose an arm? I can't remember. I'll have to I'll have to go back and re-watch all of the anime ones.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

We'll have to watch the second and the third one too, and you know, possibly just have a complete marathon, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Because yeah, because I remember him he gets his own dragon, and his own dragon is also like a big stoic dragon.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's funny how the the dragons kind of emulate a personality trait of their riders in how to train your dragon. Like hiccup is an inventive weapon in his own right, and toothless is like a feared weapon as well, with the both have the potential to be very sort of deadly in their own way, but both of them also have like the kindest heart of gold.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

And then yeah, then more like they're like sneaky strong.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Yes, yeah, yeah. Unintentionally or imperceptibly strong.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Because like Toothless uh Toothless uses his his his camouflage to be able to silently and deftly strike instead of being right in your face, get down and in the mud like all the rest of the dragons sort of do. He uses he's like, why am I getting in range of Vikings axes and shit when I can be way up in the sky, yeah, hidden by the darkness, and attacking from a range? Yeah. Then you see rock uh then you see rah the rock dragon yeah, just chewing rocks and spitting them out. Chew rocks spitting them out. Yeah. I think that's a top.

Redefining Strength Through Partnership

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Yeah, especially the way that they see him get his belly scratched in the uh animated one too. But like with with Toothless as well, you know how when he's when hiccup's reading the book and they're talking about the night furies and he turns every page and it's like uh extremely dangerous kill on sight, extremely dangerous kill on sight, and then it gets to the night fury and it says, if you face a night fury, say your prayers. But there there's literally no information about the Night Fury, and everybody fears them to the point where Stoic, one of his first lines in the movie, is Have you seen any Night Furies yet? When Burke's being raided, and there's like not yet, and he's like, good. So there's all this fear about something that's unknown to the point where it's yeah, yeah, fear of the unknown, and is literally embedded into their culture, and it goes forward to that, you know, understanding is the key. Go in curious, not judgmental, and you can see you can see the you can see that the truth behind that unknown may not be as scary as what you first thought. But let's go into our last sort of topic here, Brash. This one, movies like this and movies like how to train your dragon and anything to do with like a boy finding a companion that's outside the realm of his sort of society is is a very big trope in movies. It's called The Boy and His Dog. And it reminds me of things like Pete's Dragon, for example, where he finds another dragon there, but then also like old yellow, you could say as well. And I think like the reason these stories hit so hard is because a lot of kids are just looking to be understood. They're looking for that one person that kind of gets them and to be their ultimate friend in a space with complete understanding, and that might come from them being misunderstood by their culture or their parents or their family or their school. And I think that it's Iron Giant. Yes, another really good one that we should definitely do on the podcast, Iron Giant, blocked as well, sadly to say. But I think for me, in terms of that sort of space, I can definitely relate to Hiccup because he's he's an empathetic boy, and I kind of grew up with a lot of, I'll say a lot of feelings. I was definitely an empathetic child, and I kind of bonded very deeply with animals. My first job was at a pet shop. Like I kind of really relate and resonate with this movie, and I can't it's why people can't watch like dog movies without crying at the end of it, but it it's this sort of system and ideas that are put into the movie that speaks directly to these boys that kind of feel a little bit misaligned, like the world doesn't understand them. And I think that this movie really shows that, you know, even though you misunderstood, what you have is still valuable for one. And for two, it shows that not only is it valuable, but it's very special. Like it it's very purposeful to you, and it's okay to be really good at something that not many people are, or to express yourself in a way that That is purposeful and makes you happy.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

I do want to just want to give a quick shout out to Caitlin, a friend of mine's partner. She is one of those people who can't watch dog movies. She also can't watch movies with grant old people in them.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Because she, every time there's an old person in a movie, she always gets teary-eyed and cries. Yeah. Oh wow. But yeah, she can't watch it. Whenever I suggested going to watch a movie, she's like, is there a dog in it? I'm like, yep. She's like, nah, can't do it. No dogs. I'm like, it doesn't die. And she's like, okay. That's all right. There's a possibility it could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

I think there's actually a website that you can go to. And if there is, we might link it in the show notes. Of it's like a website that tells you if the dog if there's a dog in it and if it dies. And the exact minute, like the minute. Yeah, so you can avoid it and skip it. But yeah, I think this one here definitely plays to that trope, but they've obviously modernized it to be the the boy in his dragon.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

They switch it too. Because usually it's like the the companion that is the one that's is seeming to be like gone or dead or missing and so that and the boy's all upset because their companion's all gone. In this one at the end, everyone's like, oh no, it's not true. And the dragon's still there, he's still alright, but hiccup's gone, and then hiccup, and then the dragon's like, and then just like nah, it's kidding.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just joking, lifts up his wing, and you can see him there.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

But like, you know, that's the one thing I was like, did this the one thing in the movie that I was like, did this take as long in the anime as it is in the movie for him to reveal hiccup there? They're sitting there for crying for like five, ten minutes, and then hiccup and too just like nah, it's kidding. Yeah, yeah, it builds that sort of like sadness, I guess. But like knowing the I suppose, and that's probably one thing also with live actions, is you already know the story. Yeah. So you already know Hiccup's alive. So you're like all these people rock up in the sadness, and like Arkansas, they did like that's when that's probably what makes this movie so great. Is that even though we've all seen it, it still is emotional. It's still emotional, it still can affect you, even though you know it. Like watching your favorite movie a thousand time over, and it still gives you that same feeling. Yeah, it still gave you that same feeling from watching the animated movie, even if you watched it like a week beforehand, you watch this one and you can still feel that same feeling, but I still think that that scene was so long. It just seemed so long. I'm like, it didn't it didn't not have the effect, but then like it wasn't till after, and I was like, Yeah, that that was a long time that he can't tick up in.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Just making sure you still love your son.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

I could I was like, watch this one, like, oh yeah, it's emotional. Delic's all teary-eyed and crying and stuff like that, and Astrid's all upset, and all the rest of Vikings come to mourn, and and then chose wing. I'm like, oh yeah, he's alive. And then I'm just like, oh. Check your watch for a really long time.

Flow State And Test Drive

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Yeah, no. That's it. All right, everybody, that is the end of our episode on how to train your dragon, the live action version from 2025. If you enjoyed this episode, please go and share it with a friend. Word of mouth does amazing things for small podcasters like us. Or if you know someone who loves how to train your dragon, loves dragons, love boy and their dog stories, loves learning about different things to do with movies, then definitely send this their way. Signing off, keep learning, keep growing, and keep loving fandoms and film. I'll see you later. Bye.