Nuanced Conversations Podcast
Welcome to Nuanced Conversations Podcast, where we dive deep into the complex and often overlooked aspects of today's most pressing topics. Each week, we bring you thought-provoking discussions with experts, innovators, and everyday people who offer unique perspectives and insights. Whether we're exploring the intricacies of social issues, science, culture, or personal development, our goal is to move beyond the surface and engage in meaningful dialogue that challenges assumptions and expands understanding. Join us as we navigate the gray areas and uncover the richness that lies in nuanced conversations.
Nuanced Conversations Podcast
Empowering Young Girls: Leah's Inspirational Life Story
Leah joins us in this compelling episode to navigate the intricate web of family values, education, and personal triumphs. Growing up in a strict Los Angeles household, Leah provides an eye-opening perspective on her rebellious youth and her brother's battles with bipolar disorder. Experience her transformative years at UC Berkeley, where she discovered the balance between newfound freedom and deeply rooted familial expectations. From tales of dodging church services to the serious pursuit of financial independence in marriage, Leah's story is filled with humor, heart, and honesty.
Travel through Leah's life as she candidly recounts her turbulent journey through love and self-discovery. Her experiences with a challenging relationship and her family's disapproval of an unhappy marriage paved the way for personal growth and the creation of the Ladylike Foundation. This inspirational nonprofit focuses on empowering young girls through education and mentorship. Throughout this journey, Leah's resilience shines through as she navigates fertility struggles, explores the emotional landscape of surrogacy, and embraces her life purpose with unwavering faith.
Our conversation with Leah wraps up with a lively discussion on financial independence within marriage and the art of speaking up in relationships. We also touch on cultural touchstones, from sports documentaries to the dynamics of personal entertainment preferences. As Leah shares her social media presence and community involvement, she invites you to be part of ongoing honest conversations about religion, politics, and pop culture. Join us in listening to Leah's inspiring narrative—a testament to resilience, self-discovery, and the transformative power of embracing one's life journey.
Greetings, welcome. Thank you once again for tuning in to the Nuance Conversation Podcast. I am the curator, creator and host, george Hurd, of this podcast. We've got special, special, special, special guests here today with us Dear Fran, in the midst of her tremendously busy schedule being a new mother, being a president and creator of our own foundation, assisting out her pastor and ministry, having her own passion for ministry and work and life outside of even those areas To agree to be with us. We're excited and elated about that. We get to learn a lot about her. I get to learn a lot about the Ladylike Foundation, its origin, its creation and everything else. Hey, leah, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm good, how are you?
Speaker 1:Good. Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2:Of course.
Speaker 1:Excited to have us. Where are you from?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, I'm from Los Angeles, california.
Speaker 1:Hollywood. You're one of those people, melrose and Orange.
Speaker 2:Drive literally.
Speaker 1:As we begin our conversation, let me first wear you in. You promised to be honest, intelligent, transparent, empathetic in this conversation. Do I have my right hand? Yeah, right hand, right hand of God in the word Nipsey?
Speaker 2:Yes, I do I do she's sworn in?
Speaker 1:All right, tell us about your upbringing.
Speaker 2:I was raised in LA. My dad is from Chicago. Well, was from Chicago. He came here to act. My mom is a native. She went to Fremont High School and they met at church. What church did they meet at? Mount Zion Missionary Baptist Church. Evie Hill was our pastor, the late Dr Evie Hill and I was raised in a very strict family Strict, strict, strict strict.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by strict oh?
Speaker 2:my God, my dad, they didn't let me do anything, nothing.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:I just sneak and do everything.
Speaker 1:So you did do stuff though. Oh yeah, oh, absolutely, but they didn't let you Explain strict though, because we're talking a whole different world now in generation. I know, I know. So what was you consider as being raised straight?
Speaker 2:Every age was something. So at 13, you could talk to boys on the phone. Because you couldn't talk to boys on the phone, right, you had a landline, so they had to call and say may I please speak to Leah, okay? But my dad made that rule. But my mom didn't agree with that. So she said if a boy called and he picked up, to hang up but. If she picked up, she let me call. Talk to them Really, oh yeah. But you know that didn't last. I got one of my biggest whoopings from that.
Speaker 1:Wow. And so I mean, when you look back on stuff like that, is there appreciation for it now, or do you look back on it like hey, I have mixed feelings because I feel like when you're too strict, I like rebelled, you know.
Speaker 2:So for me I was like, okay, when I'm at this age or when I have my own kids, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing none of that, and then I also would talk back. So I'd get in a lot of trouble, whereas my brother, he internalized everything and then now he has bipolar disorder.
Speaker 1:so I feel, like you know, because he didn't like talk back you know it was two of you all, yes, and you were the oldest, yes, so he was a straight-a student.
Speaker 2:He was the athlete he was, you know. So my dad was really hard on him because my dad was that athlete that didn't make it right so of course his son's gonna make it, and so, while he was strict on me, I'm talking back like that doesn't make sense. What do you mean you said so? What do you mean you said so this? Makes us this is a homecoming dance. Like I can't go to the homecoming dance, so um or chasing my brother wouldn't say anything, so now he's's, like you know, needs therapy and medication.
Speaker 2:And that's a whole nother. Thing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I feel like for me I've always had the plan B, like okay, so I'm going to spend the night over at this person's house and I'm going to be able to go to the party, or I'm going to stay after school late. You know that I could.
Speaker 1:So your wings did flap.
Speaker 2:You were able to experience certain things, but then I got married early, so I don't think that was okay, you know, because then I was like okay, when I got the house, when I got the house.
Speaker 1:So when did you leave out the house? You're selling in high school and academics. You're doing what you're doing, but you're not doing anything crazy. You're just breaking house rules, not breaking any county rules or city rules or state laws or federal laws.
Speaker 2:My dad was crazy, so I was like nah, I went to Berkeley, so I went away to school, which was great. I'd tell everybody to go away to school. It was not too far because I could go home whenever. That's when I experienced a freedom that I never had. That was crazy.
Speaker 1:So walk us through, choosing Berkeley, okay, and then walk us through like your first, like you're talking about now, like your your first, um, like you're talking about now experiences of freedom and adjusting to adulthood, college life and things of that nature.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, so I go to berkeley. I go early because I get into summer bridge. Summer bridge is a program that you can go on campus you find, you know, start your classes early, you get to learn your professors.
Speaker 1:Bridge over yeah. It's really great because you get to learn the campus.
Speaker 2:The campus is huge right. I met my best friend who family goes to your church on the first day of Summer Bridge right Wow. Friends to this day. So that was great. I mean being able to have a you chose Berkeley Because?
Speaker 1:okay, why?
Speaker 2:First of all, I didn't choose Berkeley. Okay, my mom chose that for me. My mom went to Berkeley.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:And my mom's family is a family of educators and so they even though they're from Watts and they're very conservative they felt that education was their way out, so everything revolved around education. So my grandparents both have postgraduate degrees, but they had their kids first. And they took turns to go to school, and then their children, my mom, and my uncle.
Speaker 1:My uncle, graduated summa cum laude from Stanford University, was the first African-American to go to Jewel Science Institute and he was an ophthalmologist. So both of your grandparents your maternal and paternal grandparents were postgraduate Only maternal, Okay. And where did they go to postgraduate school at?
Speaker 2:My grandfather went to USC.
Speaker 1:He went to.
Speaker 2:Prairie View and USC. My grandmother went to Cal State, la, for both. And they were both administrators in LAUSD.
Speaker 1:They were from LA. How did they migrate to LA?
Speaker 2:Texas.
Speaker 1:Through Texas.
Speaker 2:Yes, they both my grandfather's from Crockett Texas. My grandmother's from Palestine, texas.
Speaker 1:Did they know each other?
Speaker 2:No, but my grandfather's sister and my grandmother went to school together. So when my grandfather migrated out here with his entire family, he was in the Army, so he was in World War II, got his family set up on 55th Street in Hooper which is down the street from Mount Zion, that's the whole reason why they go there.
Speaker 2:And my grandmother's father worked on the trains and they had a free ticket to come to LA. My grandmother came on her free ticket to come to LA. My grandmother came on her free ticket to LA when she got here she said I want to see Dorothy, my school friend. They her family, the Lusks, moved here. She calls her her brother. John Lusk brings Dorothy to see my grandmother, and my grandfather is John and my grandmother never went back to Texas, so she ends up getting married.
Speaker 2:They get married in like a month and a half.
Speaker 1:So when your grandfather's family moved here, it's not that he had a wife and children, it's his sister. Yeah, so your grandfather's sister moved here. They all moved, yeah, here, and then your grandma visited and then they got together. Wow, do you know any generations back besides their parents? Anything about their parents?
Speaker 2:Well, my grandmother's mother died when she was five and her father she's like has like 20 kids, but you know her grandmother raised them.
Speaker 1:Who has 20 kids.
Speaker 2:My grandmother's father has like 20 kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, After them. So you know, she was like 20 kids, yes, after them.
Speaker 2:So, you know, she was like, uh, uh. She's like, I don't want to marry nobody with kids, I don't want to deal with no baby mom Like she, because she saw it all right, and so she was like, uh, uh, education is the way out. My grandfather, my grandfather's father, is a blue eyed blonde and his mother is a white Caucasian and his mother is an Indian what's?
Speaker 1:a blue-eyed blonde.
Speaker 2:White Caucasian, and his mother is Indian and black, but very dark with long hair. So the mixture is beautiful, right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And we're Sioux Indians, so we have Sioux and Cherokee. My mom knows all of that. She loves that stuff, so the Dances with Wolves is the tribe that we're from. Oh, wow so, which is sioux indians. So they're like she's really into that. So they migrated to la and they made uh, you know, my grandparents, my grandfather, my grandmother were the most successful people in their family as far as because they went. They went to college. Their other siblings did not.
Speaker 2:But they helped their other siblings get jobs and all kinds of things. So here I come around. It's a non-negotiable issue You're going to college.
Speaker 1:You're going to college. You're going to Berkeley.
Speaker 2:Yes, I wanted to go to.
Speaker 1:Spelman you wanted to go to Spelman I wanted to have the HBCU.
Speaker 2:I've always had a weight.
Speaker 1:Why did you want to go to Spelman?
Speaker 2:Because, you know, I wanted to go to the Ivy League of HBCUs right, which? Is like Spelman Morehouse Howard. You know it's like a lineage right and so I did not get into Spelman. And it's crazy because I was like number five in my class. I had, you know, great grades.
Speaker 1:You got into Berkeley but you didn't get into Spelman. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:It's just because the Lord didn't want me to go there right Wow yeah, and my mom didn't help me with that application. She's like you're not going, I'm not helping you. Who knows, if Spelman's even seen this application?
Speaker 1:Who?
Speaker 2:knows. I don't know I worked. I remember my personal essay was where's my 40 acres and a mule? And I did all of this whole, please. I did not get in. It's crazy. I got into US, I got into everywhere. I got into Hampton, howard, nyu, usc, uc, santa Barbara. I did not get into UCLA, because usually if you get into UC Berkeley you don't get into UCLA, and if you get into. Ucla, you don't get into Berkeley usually.
Speaker 1:So you're from a line of education, You're from a line of discipline, a line of Christianity. So I'm imagining your college experience as well. Does it play well Christian-like, well normal? How is that Well?
Speaker 2:I didn't want to go to church. When I went to school, I was like uh-uh, you mean to tell me I could sleep in? I was in church all the time. Thursday choir rehearsal, saturday ministry stuff. I was president of the choir, president of the kids, president of the circle girls feeding the homeless, going to the convalescent homes. I was like you mean to tell me I get to sleep in on Sunday.
Speaker 1:So you was churched out before Tamela Mann was.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was churched out. Take me to the king. Yeah, I was churched out and I told my parents I was like uh-uh, no church for me. Cool.
Speaker 2:So I go to Berkeley. It's great. My dad calls me every morning on Sunday at 6 am asking me what church I'm going to. This is before the internet, like you can't even search for a church, and I was like, dad, I don't have a car, I'm not going to church. He's like, no, you're going to somebody's church. I was just like, okay, I remember I would take a call and say okay.
Speaker 2:And I'll take hold and say okay, and I'd turn back over, I'll find, okay, daddy, I'll find one. Okay, love you too. And I'd be like I ain't going to nobody's church. So one time I got tired of it. I was like my girlfriend went to Cal with me she's two years older and her parents they all went to Mount Zion. So you know, they're like sticklers about church. So you need a church home. You need a church home. So she's like let's just go, let's just go. My parents said let's just go, we go. We'll go late.
Speaker 2:We'll go right before the preaching Because we you know, when you've been in church, you know right when preaching starts and when it ends. If the church starts at 11, get there at 12 because that's halfway through, so we go, and it's this guy who had been preaching at mount zion every year since I was like six, on the first sunday in july.
Speaker 2:So my dad was like go to this church, he's young, he's, he's, you know, like he looks, like he's fun and he's. And I was like okay, and so I told her she's like let's just go. This seems like a cool church, he's young. He must be fun we don't want to go to an old.
Speaker 2:It's so funny, I should have went to somebody old, but anyway. So we go to church and we walk in and I just look like, oh wow, I forgot he preaches good, I've always loved preaching. And so I was like wow, I forgot he preaches good, I've always loved preaching. And so I was like, wow, this is, this is nice. And so we stood up. You know, back in the day you stand up, you tell everybody where you're from, right, and so we visited.
Speaker 1:All guests stand up to your name.
Speaker 2:Yeah and so at this particular time they just stood, we just stood up, but then we didn't say anything. And so if we went there and didn't say like we're from evo's, then that's like a sin, almost right. So after church we walked down. I am so nervous, right, I am so because people don't know that I am shy, they don't think so. But I have like take a long time, like I'm like, okay, what am I going to say? What am I going to say? What am I going to say? Hey, well, you know where are you guys from, and I'm like we're from mount diane, evie. Oh, papa, hill's church, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's like what do you guys do? We go to berkeley? Oh, you guys must be smart and stuff's like you know, that's all. You're here. Oh, you must be smart. Oh, you're black, can you go? And so anything you guys need, you need computers. We didn't have no computers like I, you know, computer was like a big deal. Um, what do you guys need? You need you'd help with your dorm rooms and you know, anybody that's like nice, like that. You're like wow, you know, you're not used to that. I'm not used to that. I'm used to my parents and my family doing everything. So I was like wow, and I'm like enamored, like I'm looking, I'm not even blinking. Like Like I'm looking, I'm not even blinking. Like wow, you know being taken away, just crazy.
Speaker 2:And so my girlfriend's doing all the talking, so we walk out. I'm like, oh my God, he's fine, she's like he's old Shut up. You know I'm like yeah, but he sure is fine.
Speaker 2:What did I say that for? Well, the next time we went, this time we walk in's like hey, they're here, come on down. So I'm like, oh, he wants us to come down. You know, come to my office after church, and that's a big deal that's a big like for pastor to call you in the office. That's like huge, either you're in trouble or, you know, because I've been called in the office for being in trouble from the conventions but, this is a different trouble, this is a different thing.
Speaker 2:So we go back and he's asking us all these questions. Well, to make a long story short. I get up enough strength to be like are you married? And he's like no, and I'm like that's a shame. I'm like what if the shy girl said and my girl, my girlfriend's, on the other side, like I was like just shame somebody as successful as you. Don't have anybody. And he's looking like this little girl, like what? I don't know, Talking the talk yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyway. So that was my church experience. I was going every week. And I was going to Bible study. I never went to Bible study.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you never went to Bible study. I was going to Bible study. I never went to Bible study. Yeah, you never went to Bible study, I was going to every service.
Speaker 2:I was going in morning and night and revivals. I never did none of that and so yeah, so I started dating the pastor at 18 years old. He was 35. Wow. Yeah, how did that?
Speaker 1:end. Oh yeah, how did that end. Oh God, how did that end?
Speaker 2:Well, he said that if I um that when I graduate, he's going to marry me. So I was like what you know? I just didn't. This is a man. Like this is like with money and you know property, you know I'm 18. That's blowing my mind, like that's blowing my mind and I'm going for it. And he's telling me I mean, he has game. I mean now, when I hear it, this is like 25 years later.
Speaker 2:I laugh Like this is funny right Like somebody would have the audacity to say this to anybody. They're really insulting their intelligence. But so he said, when you graduate, I'll marry you. So I ended up graduating from Berkeley in three years. I literally took 22 units first semester, 13 units in the summer to make sure.
Speaker 1:So you're breezing through. Academically, seemingly you're on the right track. You're dating pastors at age gap, but he's a pastor, he's successful as well, as you stated to him, and so you all are now getting close to graduation, so now you're planning marriage at this point.
Speaker 2:I am. You know, women, and so you all are now getting close to graduation. So now you're planning marriage. At this point, I am, you know, women we already have.
Speaker 1:We've been planning marriage.
Speaker 2:We've been planning marriage since we were five, you know, and we're playing with Barbies.
Speaker 3:Like we're planning it, like it's happening in our heads Right?
Speaker 2:So I was, and that's why I was killing myself, was killing myself and I wasn't breezing through. It was hard. I was studying all the time and I but I learned that I learned the art of doing well if that makes sense. So I would meet with professors if I wasn't getting a great good grade or I drop a class if I felt like I was getting like a C and I take it at junior college and transfer the grade over. I became really like good at that, savvy at that.
Speaker 1:At the system.
Speaker 2:yeah, and I was doing great. I mean I graduated in three years. That's amazing. It is. I wouldn't have never done that.
Speaker 1:Nonetheless, yeah, Now I would never do that.
Speaker 2:But I missed my whole college, my college like Experience. Oh my God, I missed. You know I would have pledged I would have. That's what my friends did. They all pledged AKA and the AKAs were like really courting me, right, and pink is my favorite color. So you know I missed that because I was like no, if I do that, you know it's going to stop me from what I want to do. And I became like a Saint John hat wearing church lady at like 19 years old, like what, I don't even do that now like I did that. When I did that, I wore a hat on Sunday for the first time like 20 years. I almost was triggered because I was like this, this feels, this feels like this feels like 20 years ago, when I was miserable, you know, like why were you miserable though you're, you know what's going on that makes make it miserable, because it seems unique but it doesn't seem miserable well, when you're dating someone that's older, you have to understand they have stuff going on Like.
Speaker 2:I always have this philosophy you never meet someone who doesn't have somebody. I, just you have somebody. You may not be like in a relationship relationship, but you got somebody, somebody you can call, somebody that's there, somebody's waiting in the wings. Right, everybody does right.
Speaker 1:So Not everybody listeners, but I get what you mean.
Speaker 2:Generally speaking, yes, okay, usually yes there's somebody that picks your up your phone call every time you call as somebody. So, um, he had a lot of somebodies gotcha and I did not know any of that because I'm so young. I'm so naive. He was living with someone, he had kids he had. I mean, like I got the whole. I don't want to be bad pressed for the kingdom but you know, preachers are amazing individuals but they're people and that's what people don't get Like. They're people.
Speaker 1:So, but none of this you knew.
Speaker 2:None of it.
Speaker 1:None of this, you knew. Did y'all actually get married eventually later five?
Speaker 2:years later. But so I end up graduating and he ends up sending me home, which was devastating but like everything I worked for was just like null and void. So I go home for two years and so when I get home, you know I'm thinking I'm getting married and my parents, like I know you're getting a job. So my grandmother, she it was in the newspaper the LA Times and it had like an employment section and she had marked off like literally the Monday I got home from graduation. She had marked off every place. I had an interview for the next week and I had to go, and so I'm sad because I didn't get week and I had to go and so I'm sad because I didn't get married and I feel like a fool.
Speaker 2:And then I got to go to work, so I don't even get a break. I ended up getting a job at First Lutheran Elementary School as a first grade teacher at 21 years old and then I started teaching and I loved it First grade, then I taught second grade and then after that I get married, but that was a whole five years later. Two years, so it's five total.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so after three years of college and two years of working and you move back to Oakland area up north. When I got married yes, I did.
Speaker 2:I moved back, and that's when the miserable it started getting miserable, because he said like, even though, well, the reason why he married me was because I was growing up and so, like I wasn't taking the okie doke no more when you get older, you know it's just like I had gotten tired of the same same old, same old. And then I started dating other people because I would be hearing about all these people he would be taking to conventions and different revivals.
Speaker 2:So I was like well, what am I doing? I'm sitting up here waiting. No, no, no, let me. People are asking me out, people are calling me let me, let me have fun.
Speaker 2:So I start having a lot of fun, I really do. And, um it, everything was great until he heard about one particular person and that just turned the whole game around. I was always like I'm. Now I'm like if you ever want to get married, find somebody else that the person that's you, you know you're waiting on, get that ring. I got that ring in a month. It went from five years to a month. I had a ring and yeah, so, um so, yeah, I get married. I go move back up north. My parents are so upset they hate him when I say hate.
Speaker 2:They can't stand him, especially my dad. He's like oh this nigga right here like oh let me catch him slipping out. He's like mad, and so I have no friends, no family, and I'm living in the top of this church, in this light, like it's smaller than this, smaller than this A light house in a theater. I'm living there. That's my that's, that's what my parents all the investment at Berkeley education. I'm living there, that's my, that's, that's what my parents all the investment at Berkeley education. I'm living in this.
Speaker 1:Get out of that situation, move back to LA.
Speaker 2:Took me a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's a while two years.
Speaker 2:No eight months.
Speaker 1:Eight months.
Speaker 2:Still like eight years, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you're back in LA. Do you what is? And so you're back in LA. Do you, yes? What is the adjustment period like after that point? Is it a clean break? Is there still like some healing process that need to go on?
Speaker 2:No, it's a clean break for me, but of course for them it's not a clean break. Like I had no kids, so it was, it was good. The only thing I had was property, so everything was in my name, so I but I felt like if they paid for it, then I was good. That's just stupid, you know it ended up, no, I had to, like I literally had to go to court, I literally had to get a lawyer, um, so no, that part took about. He wouldn't sign the papers.
Speaker 2:it's so crazy like he didn't want to be married in the first place, but didn't want to sign the papers to get divorced. So, anyway, so he finally does. And so I make a. I make a pact with the Lord and I'm like Lord, I am not going to have sex with anybody until I get married. I felt like all of that was just like in my head and I was just. I wasn't making clear decisions. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm like listen, I need, I need clear decisions. So that was seven years.
Speaker 1:That was seven years, so that's the base of your book, right? Yes, and tell us more about the book and why you felt the need to write the book.
Speaker 2:So seven years. The number seven is the number of completion, of course you know this, and so it took seven years to get me from the point of when I left Oakland to the point that I was ready for my next marriage. But there was so much in those seven years that I went through.
Speaker 2:There was so much from different relationships, from going back to school, getting my master's in education because I went back to teaching to being laid off and working for an entertainment lawyer, so learning all that legal stuff and contracts but then I was working with 501c3s and and statements of information and you know the, the nonprofit stuff that I had no idea that I would be doing Right. So I'm filing this stuff, I'm I'm doing all this stuff for all of these celebrities and clients. Right.
Speaker 2:And then I become a homeowner. In fact, my grandmother, my saving grace, I love her so much. When I get back home, my family had totally lost all faith and confidence in me, so I literally had to build it back and I ended up pawning my ring. My ring was.
Speaker 2:It was a 5.1 carat diamond that he said was worth $50, he's such a liar so he's the worst. I'm like that's why anybody, any joker that talks to me I'll be saying like this like are you kidding? But so I'm going to all these pawn shops. I'm like they're like man, it's only worth $4,000. There can't be $4,000 for a five, no way. They're like look, look, look, there's a feather here and then there's like three carbon dioxide black dots at the bottom. This may be big, but it is not worth that much. And I'm thinking like no way. So, anyway, my dad had a friend and took me to the pawn shop that was a reality show at the time in Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2:I took my ring there and they gave me $8,000.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's not bad $50,000 to $8,000 is a big jump.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what it was stated. But hey know, no, I was working, I was looking for 50, I was looking for I, I deserved you just heard 50 from all I went through.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna get in debate if you should have returned it and all that. Obviously we can see where you stand on that, but can we debate that?
Speaker 2:okay. So I was married. It wasn't an engagement ring, we were married, okay. So when I left, he wrote me a letter every day, every single day. He couldn't believe that I left. That was just like he couldn't believe it. So every day he writes a letter. So in one of the letters on his letterhead he writes this is a letterhead, this is the church address. With a signature. He goes please take the ring ring, pawn it and get yourself out of the debt that I put you in.
Speaker 2:I feel so bad okay that's it I did it and so, but he tried to sue me for it. So he sends me this letter, certified mail, and says if you do not send the ring back, then you, I'm leaving this house and I'm leaving you responsible for this house. Okay, the house was over six hundred thousand dollars in the bay area. Do you understand? That is like I don't have any money. I'm a teacher. I was like this. So I was growing up. So I was like, oh hell, no, I am not laying down and dying with this thing right here. He is a fool. I found a lawyer. I asked oh, I called my pastor. I had joined Dr Williams church because Evie Hill had passed away and doc was like. I was like doc, I, I'm fighting, I'm not sending him nothing.
Speaker 2:He's gotten enough right. But I can't assume this house, even though I probably should have had the house, sold the house made the money, but my parents didn't want to pay for that. Gotcha they didn't want to pay for that, so I got a lawyer. He had a real estate guru in the church that got all his properties for him and he was like, talk to her. I'm sure she has a property lawyer right, because you had to get a property lawyer real estate lawyer, real estate lawyer.
Speaker 2:Right, and so I did, and at first I was losing the case because he was like you know, he has the right to ask for the ring back. He paid for it. And I was like, uh-uh, I'm not, because I had already pondered at this point, so I couldn't even if he wanted to yeah no. So he was like do you have any evidence that he said to pawn it? I was like absolutely I. I I'm a, first of all, I'm a gemini, so I keep receipts I am like.
Speaker 2:I got evidence everywhere I, I know. So I said, oh, absolutely. So I had the whole, the whole thing and I went to the date, got the letter made of copy, got my grandma said, mama, we got, we're winning this case. She was like come pick me up, baby, come pick me up. She wrote a two thousand dollar check because I didn't even have that and we sent it to his lawyer and that was that.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So I learned a lot in those seven years.
Speaker 1:What made you think that you were ready to pursue marriage again or get married again?
Speaker 2:You know I always wanted. I hate the dating process. I feel I just I don't know, I never liked it. I mean I don't like being with a lot of people Like I feel like that's just you know, and then if they weren't serious and I was just like, okay, well then, let me just move on. I did date a guy that was a rapper. I thought I was, I thought we were serious in my head and my pastor was like you ain't.
Speaker 2:And I was just like. He said don't you read the back of his album? He said Leah has a beautiful spirit. He said that ain't shit, I'm telling you and you know my pastor, he meant it and I was like you're so mean. He was like I promise you ain't. I'm saying like okay, whatever. And he started dating this tennis girl and I found out it was like on Bossip and I was like what it's a gossip website.
Speaker 2:That's how you found out yeah, so dating scene wasn't for me, but yeah so you knew you was ready, because well, I knew I was ready because I wanted to do it again.
Speaker 2:I wanted to make sure that I wasn't a failure at it because I knew I was a good, I was a good wife, I was a good person, um, a good teammate, and I feel like that was my destiny. But I didn't think I knew what was right for me. I knew I didn, so I needed the Lord to like, really pick the person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're the president and founder of Ladylike. What is Ladylike? How did that evolve in the midst of everything else that was going on in your personal life?
Speaker 2:Okay, so the Ladylike Foundation is a foundation for girls ages 12 to 18 where we educate, empower and inspire young ladies living in underprivileged communities to reach their highest potential, become everything they're created to be, through workshops, through mentorships, uh, through stem through I don't know everything the young lady needs. We make sure it happens. Okay, how did I get that? Now, I had no idea that I was gonna do that, so I had in my dating season, um, with a lot of failed relationships. I got so angry like nobody's calling me, I would literally call my phone. Like is my phone broke? Like why is my phone? You know, I'm like what? Nobody, what? Like I would meet people, think this would be great, and then something would happen and I wouldn't hear from them. And I'm like I think I'm cute though, I think I'm fun, like what is, and I'll be like you are crazy and I'm like.
Speaker 2:I'm not crazy and so, but it would be like, but it would be like pastors, but they would be like old, they'll want to talk to me at WHW, at WHW, and I'd be like, oh my God, no way, I have a story, I have a story about that and I'm like I'm not going down this road again. No thanks. 60., 65, 70. Or then I meet somebody and be like, oh, this is great. And then my pastor be like he married. I'm like, no, he's not. Yes, he is, and it'd be this huge church with. I'm like, oh, he didn't, what you know, but fast forward. So I get really frustrated. So one day I sit down, I plop down like my dramatic self and I go I mean, I can't even get a date. He has his feet up on his desk, like he always does, looking at youtube. He has his feet up, he's, he's like this and I'm like I can't, do you hear me? I can't get a date. He's like he gets to see all of all the sides that I don't show anybody. Right.
Speaker 2:And he's like what do you mean? I was like, I mean nobody's calling me.
Speaker 1:You're a pastor's personal assistant.
Speaker 2:So we're close.
Speaker 1:You have to be there to do scheduling sermon, help them sermon prep and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Sermon prep. I write the sermons literally as he dictates.
Speaker 1:I work seven days a week, every single day, so you would also complain about your social life to him.
Speaker 2:Yes, because he's like my therapist. My dad doesn't want to hear anything about nothing. He's done Like he's like. You're taking me through and I'm done. Right.
Speaker 2:And my mom. Mom, you know she doesn't want to hear that. My grandmother was like baby. I just don't want it. My grandmother lost all her hair with when I was married. She was, I mean, just worried to death, right. So, um, so I'm yelling. He goes. You know what? The lord just told me something, because every time I would be in that office, even though he would be writing sermons, something would something crazy. But I know you know this, probably in your office too. The Lord says to him you're like it's a revelation right he goes.
Speaker 2:The Lord told me for you to fast for 38 days and I was like okay, and he goes, and after 38 days you're going to have a man.
Speaker 1:I was like okay, I got a lot of DMs. I was like okay, I got a lot of DMs from ladies that want to know the 38-day formula here.
Speaker 2:It was working out and fasting until noon every day.
Speaker 1:Like nothing but water until noon every day, six to noon every day.
Speaker 2:Right 5.30, probably because I would get up and work out at five to noon.
Speaker 3:So Right 5.30 probably because I would get up and work out at 5 to noon.
Speaker 2:So there was no formula. Anyway, after 38 days I did not have a man. I was like what is going on? Where is the man? And so Doc was like you know, I'm going back Every time a man of God tells me something.
Speaker 2:I'll be like now look, you said this and I'm waiting. Are you a false prophet? Do you need to be stoned? You know, and he was like what are you talking about? I'm saying you made me put my life on for 38 days. So he was like no, what happened during the 38 days? And I was like well, I had a vision. He was like what's the vision? My vision is this foundation. And he goes with what I was like with girls. He said keep going. So I'm telling him like I want to have, I want to give scholarships and I want to do these Friday talks and I want to. You know, I want to mentor these girls, just like what I do at the church already, but on a different scale. And it it's a foundation, so I need to apply. He was like the Lord didn't give you a man, he gave you a ministry.
Speaker 2:I was just like thanks you, but it still made me busy. So I started getting busy. I started applying for the 501c3 through. Sacramento. I opened up accounts with $100. I don't have any money. My grandmother is game, so she's like, whatever it takes, she's the treasurer, the co-signer on everything.
Speaker 2:My parents are still done with me. They don't put their name on nothing. They didn't say we spent enough. And so I start doing that and I get really busy and I really start doing it. I had my first lunch at the Beverly Hills Hotel, my favorite hotel. It's $10,000. And my grandma's like I'll pay for it, you just pay me back. I'm thinking how am I?
Speaker 2:going to pay you back, but through tickets. Well, anyway, we just broke. Even so, I did that. And then I had a conference. I wanted a conference like WHW, but I wanted it for girls. And I meet this pastor and he just gets this church and he goes, he says oh, I've heard about you, I'm talking about your pastor right here.
Speaker 2:I've heard about you, I've seen you around. Yeah, I'm going to send 10 people. Didn't have no money either. I was like for real, I'm almost crying you are, he sends 10 people. Pastor Hurt gives you this check. I'm like like you are, he sends him people. Pastor Hurt gives you this check. I'm like, thank you, oh, my god. Anyway, I'm really really working. I think that's you or me. I'm really really working, I'm really busy and through that I am, I'm in, I'm in like I'm not even worried about the man stuff because I'm so busy you can more focus on that and tell us what Ladylike is.
Speaker 1:now we hear what it is, then you're still at the Beverly Hilton.
Speaker 2:Well, I was at the Beverly Hills Hotel.
Speaker 1:Beverly Hills Hotel. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:The pink one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, I know the Polo Lounge. I know that one, oh my.
Speaker 2:That's my big enough now there you go. It's not big enough. So now God has really blessed us. Where we've had gosh, we've had hundreds of girls come through our program. We've given hundreds of thousands away in scholarships. Our girls are black and Latino, women of color that have gone to like NYU, harvard, yale, vassar, hbcu, spelman, howard, hampton.
Speaker 1:Michigan. We did have one go to.
Speaker 2:Michigan, it's not an HBCU. Go blue Michigan University, not Michigan State.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, even though she called me in this semester, she didn't have no money.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you get those calls all the time.
Speaker 2:She stayed in California.
Speaker 1:We got UCLA Berkeley Numerous workshops UCLA.
Speaker 2:Day. We have STEM panels, a mail panel that you're on. Thank you for that. We have monthly meetings every Friday Once a month. On fridays we have, um, I have bible teach, tuesday night, bible study. Now that at least 25 to 30 girls are on there every week, like shocked, every time, like y'all want to hear me, um, and we just are, like god has blessed us. And so, through the ministry, I, my husband and he's in the philanthropic space and he knows how to navigate and he knows what to do.
Speaker 2:And even though I did not like him at all when I first met him, I liked the partnership and then became the love, so it grew into something that's pretty amazing and he's taught me so much like marketing and you know like, because his his culture.
Speaker 2:You know he's of the jewish culture, so his, his mindset is finance right my mindset is not that you know, so he knows how to bring the finance and everything together to make it work, and so that's been absolutely amazing because I needed that, because I had. No, I haven't. I don't like budgets. I never work with the budget, I just want everything. I want everything, I see. I want the flowers, I want the led screen absolutely um top of the class, top excellency.
Speaker 1:Your journey into motherhood, uh, tell us about that. Oh god, did you feel comfortable?
Speaker 2:I feel comfortable. So I, because I did not like have sex for those seven years I which was crazy, because how you go from having sex and not having sex, that's just nuts, I don't even know. I know the Lord was probably laughing at me like she's really insane, but I did it.
Speaker 1:I was laughing at that.
Speaker 2:I mean it was, it was very hard.
Speaker 1:I'm like I can't spend the night. It's a different theological perspective on purity, but go ahead but.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, but I'm saying from there, then you go, you know into a marriage, and then I didn't want to have kids right away.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to you know, I wanted to travel and do stuff, and so my pastor, my therapist, my coach, my guide was like you need to start having your babies now. I was like what you know? He was like, no, you need to do it right now. The lord is telling me to tell you this, and so every time he says that I take it seriously. So I start and nothing's happening. I mean nothing. And my lord, you, I did this for you, the seven, and now you're not blessing me, right? So I did get pregnant. I got pregnant by my ex-husband and I lost that. And then I got pregnant by my current husband and I lost it. And so usually they say if you lose a baby, that you'll have one quickly, like it happened. Right away. It wasn't happening, and so my mother-in-law was like you need help.
Speaker 2:African-american community is not in the help of having babies. Right, we're known to have babies. Like who do you not know? I mean, I don't know. My mom didn't have fertility problems, right? My grandmother didn't have fertility problems, right, my grandmother didn't have fertility problems. She even gotten gotten pregnant in her 40s, you know, back in the 60s, which is like unheard of.
Speaker 2:Even if she didn't have. The child was still born, but she still got pregnant. Right.
Speaker 2:My, my father's mother, had five boys back to back, you know. So, like how am I not able to have kids? And so, and then I thought like you, you know, maybe because I got divorced like is the lord, you know, punishing me, or I left all these things, but, um, so I end up getting help. So even in that, you're like, okay, it's gonna happen. Well, year one goes by, two, three, four, five, nothing. And I'm, I mean, I'm doing IVF non-stop, I'm doing the shots, I'm doing, you know, standing on my head, I'm doing did you ever heard of that before?
Speaker 2:ivf. Yeah, oh, yeah, I mean, but you don't hear from, but like me, I've never.
Speaker 1:I would never heard. I've never heard of that concept, even too recently, just the joking test tube, baby jokes, stuff like that, but nothing in debt oh my god, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's, it's so much money.
Speaker 1:I'm familiar with it now.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, but I mean it's like, like, like. Because of all that I went through, I would tell a woman who's in her 20s to to freeze her eggs, like even if you're not, you know, gonna get married or have any potential right now you don't know like you may want your career first, but those eggs are so what does that mean?
Speaker 2:okay, so, so like okay. So a woman has a certain amount of eggs from birth, like god gives you a certain amount, like maybe your amount is 22 000 eggs in your entire lifespan, from the point that you are born to the point of childbearing years, like until like 40, 42, right? Now it's like 45, but whatever. I mean you know.
Speaker 2:But you don't know that every one of those years you're losing numbers. It's going down and down and down and down. So when you get in your 30s, the reason why you know back in the day for you know, when we were growing up, a lot of people weren't having kids in their 30s and 40s because they don't have any eggs left, like it's like you're shooting blanks. So you want to say shooting, shooting. So you're shooting blanks.
Speaker 2:I'm serious because you don't have that you don't have that to hit, so you have, you should. So in your 20s are your best ones. So when they say, freeze your eggs, you want to freeze them when you're really young because those are your best, the best quality eggs that you can possibly. Freeze them when you're really young, because those are your best, the best quality eggs that you can possibly have All this stuff sounds expensive though.
Speaker 1:So expensive, but it's worth it like in the long run.
Speaker 2:So here I am 30s, 40 right.
Speaker 1:So let's go back when your eggs are, they're like in like a freezer somewhere.
Speaker 2:So your eggs are in your uterus and your ovaries, so you're taking in your uterus and your ovaries.
Speaker 1:You have close up eggs, so you're taking them out.
Speaker 2:You're taking them out and you're freezing them. Like in somebody's deep freezer at home or something no Like go get some green beans In a doctor's office?
Speaker 1:Oh, in a doctor's. So it's in a professional office with your name on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everything.
Speaker 1:Can you eventually sell them?
Speaker 2:People sell their eggs all the time, really, uh-huh. If you want babies all over the place, yeah Right, I don't know, it's just like you sell sperm, they sell eggs.
Speaker 1:Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Especially younger girls, because if they're trying to get to college or, you know, if they're trying to do something- so is Black Maternity Week.
Speaker 1:is a lot of that tied into black maternity as well?
Speaker 2:I don't know because I just found out about that. But black people don't know anything about this. When I would walk into my doctor's office, I'd be the only black person there. And then, when Dana walks in, everybody's like this or they're like may I help you, sir? And I'm like, hey, no one ever thinks we're together. Nobody, nobody. But anyway. So I'm going through this. Until and through this process, I'm just getting sick because I'm having all these surgeries, I'm doing all this stuff to have these babies. I'm like hospitalized for one week, two weeks, I mean it becomes a really bad thing because I have endometriosis mean, which means it's like this, like for women I know the men are probably gonna get grossed out, but you have like super heavy periods and you think that like, oh, I just bleed heavy or oh god, I have these cramps. It's awful, that's a problem. Like you are sick and you don't know it you know.
Speaker 2:so black, usually african americans say just take some Advil, get a heating pad, you'll be fine.
Speaker 1:Right, do you just discuss any of this stuff like?
Speaker 2:with the girls and ladylike All the time.
Speaker 1:About their health and stuff like that. Oh my.
Speaker 2:God. That means you have a problem, that means you know my mom's like oh, you know, I had heavy periods too. You'll be fine. I remember when I came home from my marriage I had to get a new gynecologist, and so I was like I think I need a DNC, because DNC is when they scrape everything out. If you had a miscarriage, they take it all out so you don't have any diseases or anything.
Speaker 2:So I go to the gynecologist I think I need a DNC because I just lost a baby and he checks me out. He's like no, you don't really need that, it's gone. But there's something else we need to talk about. And I'm like what. I'm 23 years old and I'm like what. He's like you have endometriosis and he shows me this chart and he's showing me everything scar tissue and the scar tissue is going to be hard. It's going to make it very hard for you to have children. It's that 23 years old, and I'm like what? And he's like so, you know, you really need to take account of this so I'm like yeah.
Speaker 2:So I call my grandmother and my mama. They said I'm gonna have a hard time. She was like oh, baby, you ain't gonna have no hard time, it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1:So I'm like okay, you know like but, it was a hard time and if, maybe if you would have got that dealt with back, then it would have been easier no, I feel like it gets worse over time.
Speaker 2:And I wasn't married so I wouldn't even have known any of this until my pastor said start having the babies. I would have known nothing. So year 10, I am frustrated, I mean. So I start like shopping like crazy and traveling to like numb the pain of not having kids and like not dealing with it, are working super hard just working.
Speaker 2:So I am, I'm with my grandmother and she has to go to the dentist. Her she's, she started having dementia and so, even though she's lucid, she still couldn't do everything. So I would take her to everything to our doctor's appointments and she had to go to the dentist and I was getting ready for a retrieval. So retrieval is is they measure your eggs. Like you have to go to the doctor literally every single day when you're getting ready for a retrieval, so like a screen up there, like they measure your eggs until they're at a certain point, and when they're at a certain point, you go under surgery, they take your eggs out, they put it with sperm, they they create embryos and then they put them back in you so that they can to see if you'll get pregnant, okay. So I'm getting ready for a retrieval. I have about about three eggs that we've been growing that I'm like banking on right. This is year 10, 10 years, and I take my grandmother to the den, to the dentist. I said, mama, I'm gonna be right back, I gotta go to my doctor's appointment. She nobody, my family didn't understand any of this stuff, so I really didn't talk about it and I went to the doctor to measure my eggs. I go there and the doctor goes sorry they're, they're dying.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh my god, because you want to have as many eggs as possible, so you have as many possibilities as possible. And I had some, but I wanted a. You know, I wanted to have a lot, but anyway, so I I leave the doctor's office, I pay my whatever, five thousand, whatever. It was so much money. I was like you know how many Chanel bags I could have with this money that I'm spending on nothing? You know I could have a. Birkin at this point.
Speaker 2:And so I get in the car and I'm driving and I'm trying not to cry because I'm like this is I mean, should I just give up? Should I just adopt? Like what should I do? Right. And I hear the Lord say so clearly and he goes. I used a surrogate and I was like Hmm you know, I used one, I used a surrogate. I think you should too, like, I feel like you'd stop putting yourself through all this.
Speaker 2:This is too much. And so I heard it so clearly and I told my pastor. He said flesh and blood didn't reveal that to you. That was the Holy spirit. I feel need to look into that. And I was like, yeah, but I want to carry my own kids. You know, I'm just gonna go with what we have, I'm gonna carry my own kids. Well, a few months goes by and the pandemic hits. So I asked dana. I said, babe, do you want me a dad? He had been so good the whole time not like pressuring me or not, because a lot of people break up over this right, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Like can't have kids, and so I was like you want to be a dad. He was like, yeah. I was like, well, okay, we're going to have to do something a little non-traditional.
Speaker 2:And he goes well, what is it? And he's like, yeah, let's go get one. I've been waiting for you to say it. And I'm like, really, he's like, yeah, I was like, but it's a lot of money. He's like it doesn't matter, like we'll figure it out. So I'm like, okay. So I didn't want to know anybody, I wanted it to be somebody that I don't know. I went through an agency. I was very serious about that and I was very serious about them being a Christian, and my surrogate and her husband you wanted it to be they say they have somebody who's married with kids, so they don't think that that's their kid. And so I found a African-American.
Speaker 2:She was in Riverside. Usually it's a military wife because their husbands are deported, you can't have sex with your husband or anything, and so she's in Riverside. Usually it's a military wife because their husbands are deported, you can't have sex with your husband or anything. She's in Riverside and we matched. We had to take a psychological test. She takes a psychological test, all this stuff to see if you guys are a match. As far as will this work?
Speaker 2:as far as the journey, not as far as the embryos, they're yours. It's just like will you mesh? So she passes everything, we pass everything, and then we go down to the, to the insemination, which means they take the embryo and they put them in to her. And I was there for that. And so funny because I'm driving down to redondo beach running late and I'm like so nervous because I'm this time. You know I never want to be late, but I live so far and I just can't gotcha. I should get drivers, because that way you can go to carpool lane when you drive yourself. You can't so I'm driving lane.
Speaker 2:When you drive yourself, you can't. So I'm driving down. I'm almost in Redondo Beach and the nurse called me and says Mrs Pump, something happened and I was like what she's like? Because we picked a girl and a boy and I begged the doctor to put in two because I was like I'm not doing this again. This is it. I'm not. I need twins, a girl and a boy.
Speaker 2:Dana wanted a boy to carry on the name and I wanted a girl, because my grandmother always said you need a girl to help you, because the boys I don't know what they be doing. Right, girls take care of business. So in my head I was like I better have a girl take care of business, whatever that meant. But so we begged him. The doctor was like more money, and I don't usually do this, please don't tell anyone. I was like I won't, I'll keep it secret.
Speaker 2:This doctor was with us the whole time, so he's like a family friend now and he's with the Kardashians doctor and I didn't even know it until I was watching the Kardashians, like Dr Wong, like you are. So anyway, isn't that crazy? I was like. And Doc found him online. He was just like the best reproductive specialist and he came up and I got an appointment with him. But anyway, so as I'm driving, she says something terrible happened the girl embryo has died on the way down the hall. On the way down the hall for insemination, the girl dies. They're like well, what do you want us to do? I said just go get the next best one. At this point I'm like shit. I mean, what's next Go?
Speaker 2:down the line Good, good, good Girl boy, get the next best one. And so she does, and they both took immediately. And now it's Dane and Cassie. It's so funny because Cassie is, you have to meet her. She's a wow, she is something. She think I'm something. How old are they now? They're two and a. Wow, she is something. She think I'm something.
Speaker 2:How old are they now? They're two and a half and they are driving me nuts. They are so active. My life is a change. I go to bed at three o'clock every night, which I know you know because I text you sometimes asking questions at three o'clock in the morning. I don't sleep. I'm looking into injections in my face now I'm like I was like I'm never doing Botox. Now I'm like where I need it? Where do I go? Who's the best doctor I need here or?
Speaker 1:here you're talking about a lot of things interesting, medically wise, so like from just a female perspective. So you helped us out with a documentary on motherhood. Thank you again. Amazing piece and work that was directed by Fatima. Yes, she's great. Yeah, and we share the same birthday, so we restarted the other day, I think I see the similarities yeah yeah, stop it Me. Aretha Franklin, big Shine, just the list goes on and on. Your sister, me and her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, kanye, big Shine. Just the list goes on and on your sister, me and her, kanye.
Speaker 1:Biggie, but navigating through those things as a Christian and also it's also like a new world. A lot of it's tied to economics. Oh, my god, like, for those that may be listening, what are some of the things that you had to process, matt? And then maybe somebody who you know don't have the resources or the support like you had, right, and they still want to do it, because the friends that I know have done IVF are all single. My other friends, I should say that I know they've done it as single. My other friends, I should say I know they've done it as a single person. Um, yeah, yeah, I interviewed one of them on, uh, still on my YouTube channel, but yeah, yeah. So I mean, just how was that process of navigating through that?
Speaker 2:well, I didn't have the money, we did not have the money. People think that we got it like that is a whole nother realm of money.
Speaker 2:This is like two hundred thousand dollars, like I remember. So what happens is when you have a surrogate, you have to put the money in an escrow account and the escrow company pays the person. So it's not like I'm giving, so it takes you out of it, right? I remember when she got pregnant because that's when it's the on, because if she doesn't get pregnant then you don't pay her nothing right to carry your babies they were like you need to have $82,000 in the bank, in the escrow account. On Monday I was this was Friday I was like hmm, and so I learned the art of not lying, but just like, okay, what? Like $82,000? Like where is that coming from?
Speaker 2:So, I was like Lord, you got to help me. You told me to do it, so you got to help me. I would literally. It was like step by step, it would be 5,000. It would be 10. It would be. I would, I would like my little I. I women always have a stash, always have a stash, always have a stash women. So I had a little stash.
Speaker 1:Here at the New Orleans Conversation. We do not agree in stashes and marriages to decide, but each is own. Listen, you got to be able.
Speaker 2:Abigail had to know how to navigate. You got to know how to navigate. You got to have to make moves. Pulled out, old Abigail on us, even when your husband don't get it. You got to be able to say hey, I am doing this, we are partners, you can make decisions. I can too. Like, okay, I'm just as smart, maybe smarter, but I'm just kidding. I'm not really kidding, though, but I do have a stash. I feel like you know if there's some stuff that you want materially.
Speaker 1:But you said the key word, though you don't have a stash.
Speaker 2:Like I said.
Speaker 1:You don't have a secret stash I have a stash. He knows, I have a stash Gotcha, that's the difference, ladies and gentlemen, does he?
Speaker 2:know how much is in it? No, I will not tell him because he'll spend it. And I'm not doing that. I mean that's ladies before you get married, you talk about money. I don, that's ladies before you get married, you talk about money. I don't care what you say, you talk about money like that is serious, because if you have two people of two different cultures, your mindset is different when it comes to money like two different anythings, but probably especially with culture he doesn't buy any clothes like he doesn't want to.
Speaker 2:Like he feels like adidas sends them enough clothes. I'm thinking like, but adidas doesn't send me. Like he feels like Adidas sends them enough clothes. I'm thinking like, but Adidas doesn't send me nothing. Like what are you talking about? Or one day he's like how many black shoes do you need? I'm like how many black shoes do I want? You know like that's the question.
Speaker 2:You know like I mean. So that's where we differ, like we differ in that, Like I, I feel like I work hard and I feel like, because of my last marriage, it was someone that was on me, like on me about everything, like money and spending, and he didn't have any money. And so if I work hard and I have money, then I need to be able to do what I need to do, you know, and I don't need somebody to tell me what I can and cannot do, because I don't tell them what they can and cannot do.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like I feel like I should have the freedom to to do, and you know mine is shopping. I just I like what I like and I don't break the bank if I can watch a pair of shoes for eight months. In fact, I just bought some, some um versace's that I Been watching. There were $2,200. No actually no, there was these Christian Louboutin Boots, black and white $2,200 I watched them. They went down to $777. I bought them absolutely $2,277.
Speaker 1:I don't know why. This Seemed like you're making an argument with me or yourself. But hey, it's all good.
Speaker 2:I do feel guilty, but I have to talk myself into it.
Speaker 1:I see yourself, I'm like hey, whatever, because he makes me feel bad.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm not feeling bad about this and then I have to go into my black girl crazy, like are you crazy? You know, I will do what I need to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't marry my dada.
Speaker 1:I married a partner, my dissertation is on financial literacy and overcoming hearing family trauma. There's a component of what you're talking about is critical to diagnose the need to have and want certain things. It's different with women, I would assume. I'm not a woman so I can't speak for that, but I just think, as you said, culturally, I think we have to be on guard about stuff like that. So you know, just to those that are listening, don't be like well, ms Leah said, but women.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you something. If you work hard. I just I feel like that If you work hard, you should be able to get something that you like. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean Absolutely. Yeah, you save for it, you invest or, as you said, watch the price go down.
Speaker 2:And I told and I always have to remind him I will never put you in a position that puts you out. I will never put you in a position where you're trying to figure out a way out Like that's you should trust me I mean in the problems 31 and says his heart safely trusts in her. You should trust that. I'm going to do good by you, right, I'm going to make sure everything is good.
Speaker 2:So calm down, she is. No, I say I mean, I'm real, I'm transparent when it comes to marriage. Like I, I say exactly what I mean and I mean what I say. Like I don't bite my tongue at all, because I feel like sometimes, as women, we feel like we're lesser, and I, you know. What does?
Speaker 1:that mean.
Speaker 2:Okay, so my mom is very passive, aggressive. My dad ran the show. And he ran the show when it made sense and when it didn't make sense, and I'm the one that'd be like mom, that doesn't make sense. You know, like my dad would be like you can't wear your new clothes the first day of school, so I'm like.
Speaker 1:That's a true rule, though you don't wear your new clothes. Everybody knows this.
Speaker 2:That's the game. That must be Detroit and Chicago.
Speaker 1:No, from Detroit only. Oh, your dad's from Chicago. But that's from a psychological standpoint. What? When you wear the road clothes and everybody wear out their new clothes the first day and it's like, oh, they don't got nothing, then, boom, I started hitting you with my stuff, like, yeah, what was the logic? What was your dad's logic?
Speaker 2:on that.
Speaker 1:Just because it wasn't even any reason.
Speaker 2:It was a reason he probably didn't share the reason.
Speaker 1:He didn't buy it, he didn't share the reason, but that was a rule that.
Speaker 2:I had that's you.
Speaker 1:My dad came out really poor, so he was just like me and my friends were like, hey, the whole week we ain't gonna do nothing, we gonna just roll it out the next week. Everybody didn't show their whole thing. I wonder, if you're with the young people, is it still like you wear your new clothes on the first day? That was a big deal growing up. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2:Now it's still a big deal, I mean. I never understood why he told us we couldn't do it if everybody else was doing it. Does it make sense? I thought his whole thing was like don't make people feel bad, that have less than you, Because he was always like that and I'm like how are we making anybody feel bad when everybody is worrying.
Speaker 1:So that was part of that generation. So now, when you're talking to women and young girls, you're telling them speak up for their self in that situation.
Speaker 2:I mean I could be really, I'm gonna be real transparent. So my dad was raised strict um in a denomination that was very strict right Like no makeup. I don't want to call it out, but you probably know no makeup, no secular music.
Speaker 1:Women couldn't wear pants.
Speaker 2:Yes, Not Baptist, and so he was raised under I mean even like Church of God and Christ.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Even the dice on a Monopoly game like you couldn't do that, so his dad made them number cards so they could flip the cards, even though it's cards Like it doesn't make sense, but anyway. So they don't really believe in medicine. Well, that generation didn't believe. You know, you're going to pray it through. And so with my brother's mental illness, he was like he don't need no medicine and my mom was going along. I was like my mom are you crazy.
Speaker 1:But, that's racial as well as religious as well, though.
Speaker 2:Right, but I'm saying if someone needs medicine.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I'm agreeing, but I'm saying that whole generation.
Speaker 2:But my mom's from LA. That's not how she was raised at all.
Speaker 1:And that's different. She grew up in LA and a lot of African Americans from the South. The thing I tell people about African Americans is that we don't get understated. We're ultra-conservative. Even people that don't think they're conservative are conservative.
Speaker 2:Even if we're Democratic, we're still.
Speaker 1:Even if you could be left, you could be part of the LGBTQI community and you still be, you know, conservative by nature.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, but when speaking to young girls about these issues in a more progressive society, I guess you would call it how do you? How do you I've seen you engage in these conversations, do it very well and helpful. Just for those that are listening to Max's question how do you train them, um, to be that woman that speaks up for herself in the context of every sphere, not just marriage, but I mean, what are some things that you address in those in that area?
Speaker 2:so okay. So when I taught preschool, there was this thing that I taught the kids in preschool that when someone did something to you you say I don't like that right like if they hit you.
Speaker 2:I don't like that. You know they. They take your snack. I don't like that. You take my snack, right. And so I fast forwarded into everyday life. When someone does something to you that you don't like, you need to tell them. I don't like that. I don't like the way you're making me feel. I don't like how you talk to me like that. I don't like how you embarrass me.
Speaker 2:I don't like how you are trying to make me feel stupid when I know exactly what I'm saying right are trying to make me feel stupid when I know exactly what I'm saying, right, and so I think, exercising the right to say what you mean and not be afraid, I think sometimes, like my mom, I asked my mom recently. I said, mom, why? Would you never tell daddy that doesn't make sense or that's too much. That's too much punishment, Like she said. Oh, I just didn't want to rock the boat. I didn't want to. I didn't want to rock the boat, I didn't want to make him upset.
Speaker 2:I'm not like you, I was like. So you live in misery and you watch your children spiral, you know, because you don't want to rock the boat. Whereas my grandmother, on the other hand who's my best friend I remember her Now my grandfather was a very strong texan the coveralls. He fixed everything.
Speaker 2:They, they built their apartment buildings from the ground up, literally, and he was the maintenance man and the manager and my grandmother took care of all the money. I remember one day my grandmother would not let anybody touch my hair because I had really long hair and she was like nobody's touching, Nobody's cutting it, right, I will do it. So she's getting ready to wash my hair. So she turns on the faucet and it starts spewing. It starts spewing out. My grandfather walks in. My grandmother goes John, you need to fix this sink so I could wash Leah's hair. I ain't fixing that sink, she said hmm, you ain't fixing it?
Speaker 2:huh, all right. And I remember and she was not even five feet she was like, oh, you ain't fixing it, all right, we'll see. You know, she was just like that. All I know is we woke up. That faucet was a brand new faucet.
Speaker 1:What happened?
Speaker 2:He did it Like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I got it, did it. She just had a way, she had a way.
Speaker 2:I remember she wanted her kitchen painted. But the tenant upstairs needed her kitchen painted. So my grandma said John, I want the kitchen painted. It's been it's been a few years, it needs to be refreshed. He goes oh, I'm painting. Peyton said that's his kitchen. First she said oh well, take your pajamas up there. Then too, take your pajamas and tell her what you like to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner, because I ain't cooking for you. And that was in front of me and I was like you know, like and guess what the kitchen was painted.
Speaker 2:So I saw the difference of my grandma saying, you know, in her way, saying no, no, uh-uh, no. We are both working in this, mary, we are both. If I need you to do something, if I'm cooking, cleaning, making sure you're good, I need you to do something for me too, and so that was a better way for me than what I saw at home every day. I hated that.
Speaker 2:I mean I hate, then I would get in trouble for talking back. So my daddy, that don't make sense, what? And then he'd be like shut up. And I'm like shut up for what? It doesn't make sense. You know he's like you getting a whooping, whoop me, then that's better than a punishment, you know, because you know as I got older, because I'm saying just tell me what, why. And then we became so close because he saw that the difference between me and my mom was I'm not backing down on something that.
Speaker 2:I don't believe in. Fast forward to my pastor, he said I hired you because you're not impressed. You will tell me. That was horrible. Don't do that sermon again, or that makes absolutely no sense. No one understands. There's too much Greek. You need to break, you know? Come down to. So I just who I am.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting, and so that's what you sort of train I do the young girls I feel like it's a way, now it's a way. Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:But I feel like if someone's not hearing you, then you have to do it in a way that they hear you, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I empathize, though, with your mom's perspective as well, because the social norms of the time and I think there's also there is a unity component of it that may have been taking place that didn't always see the conversations that they'd have, but they never, consciously, never had in front of you to make it perceive as it's one way and it's another way. So it's an interesting dilemma.
Speaker 2:But it never was. That's the thing. You know what I mean. Like it, never like I do understand that word. The dad, let the dad, like I'm used to. The man running the house. I'm used to that. I'm used to my grandfather running the house. Even though my grandma would say little things, he ran the house you knew it. Everybody. It's the unspoken rule, but at the same time, you weren't like a non-factor. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean yeah Well you know those things?
Speaker 2:I know it's huge in marriages. I know Maybe because I got to do it twice Because I was a non-factor- in my first one and I was like hell to the no to this one? No way, I don't well. And then my mother-in-law told me she was like don't let him get away with anything, because he'll get away with everything. She told me that before we got married. I was like what did she say? Don't let him? I'm just like so every time I hear that, if I what is?
Speaker 1:what is the generational differences that you see?
Speaker 2:that stands out um dealing with current day, um young people oh my god, I feel like current day young people are so entitled. I feel like we were. I feel like my parents talking like we, but I do feel like we work harder, like we want it more. You know we don't try to to beat the system. We we do the process. You know, and I feel like that's the part that the instant gratification how do you tell entitled people that they're entitled?
Speaker 2:I don't really do that. I really try to tell them things like why don't you do this? Because this isn't working. So, do this? Oh no, I don't need to do that. Okay, let them fail and fail. Then I'm like Miss Leah, okay, what? What do I need to do? You know? Or, um, this isn't working. Some people you can't tell them anything, and that's this generation too. Like you know, our parents would tell us we got. Whether we were listening or not, they'd be like what?
Speaker 1:what if you have magical powers? What kind of magical powers would you give these young girls to be the best you, as an adult, like? What would you give them?
Speaker 2:Listen, just listen, and don't make the same mistakes. If you pay attention be, observant, you know you'll get all the lessons that you need to learn.
Speaker 2:I would say, know who to align yourself with, like who are the good adults or who are the the good advisors, good mentees, mentors, um to hook up with right um peers too peers also that like help you on the road to success and don't like block you um how to pick the person that's for you, like I wish we had that somebody like the guy would just like let us zero in on it, that's it, you know.
Speaker 1:Um because yeah, how do you listen better?
Speaker 2:mistakes no.
Speaker 1:How do you be a? How do you become a better listener? What are some of the skills that you need to cultivate to be a better listener?
Speaker 2:Shut up, like I feel like you just have to be quiet Because I'm so nosy. I don't want to miss it. I'm getting every piece of information. You know what I'm saying. I feel like people who are nosy. They like really like. I remember I used to tell my brother shh, don't breathe. Like when my parents were talking. Brother shh, don't breathe.
Speaker 2:Like when, when we're talking like, don't breathe, don't breathe, hold your breath dude, let them know you're not there no, because we, because if you breathe, it's like another sound and you're missing like a word or that's crazy like what, I'm like what, so I can hear everything you know. But I feel like listening is a talent Like you just have to People tell you exactly who you are if you just listen right. They tell you their intentions, if you just listen.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. That's why I asked that question. I think it's a great magical power to give someone. I'm going to get you out of here on some fun stuff, because you always do this to us on the panel, not, as I already know, favorite movie of all time.
Speaker 2:Let me see what's my favorite movie of all time.
Speaker 1:Cry the Kid right.
Speaker 2:Which part.
Speaker 1:One, that's it. That's not even a. My next question is there's only a sequel that's debatable, better than the original in one movie.
Speaker 2:You think Karate Kid?
Speaker 1:Yeah, karate Kid Part two no one One is always the way. Yeah, one's always the winner in most occasions. Right, always, always the winner. There's an argument for one.
Speaker 2:Which one? Which one?
Speaker 1:Godfather 1 and 2.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So which one is Godfather, 1 and 2?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so I haven't seen the.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Oh, this hurts.
Speaker 2:It's terrible, but I like what I like, like. I like chick flicks, I like.
Speaker 3:I mean, I understand that, but this is, you know, one of the greatest movies ever made. I only go for that stuff with.
Speaker 2:And Dana's not a movie guy. I used to date only movie people. So I would see every movie out. He watches sports documentaries 30 on 30s, over and over and over. I can tell you any stat, but no, what was your?
Speaker 1:favorite documentary.
Speaker 2:I really liked the Last Dance. It was really great. I loved the Last Dance.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:I mean, you didn't.
Speaker 1:I'm not a Jordan fan, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, LeBron doesn't come out with a documentary, so you got to wait.
Speaker 1:I also feel like documentaries should be objective and the person that it's about shouldn't be the one dictating what's being focused on, and I think we were in a desperate state, so I watched it.
Speaker 2:Right, you were watching every Sunday, but it was pandemic. So you were waiting for it, right.
Speaker 1:Right. So nothing else was being generated and created and we all thought the world was going to end at any moment. So hey, might as well watch jordan manipulate the narrative of the bulls dynasty it was great, though I loved it.
Speaker 2:Did you like the?
Speaker 1:they call me magic uh magic's documentary on 30 for 30 no, no, no, his, no, his.
Speaker 2:It came out maybe two years ago. They call me Magic.
Speaker 1:It was on Apple TV.
Speaker 2:You guys see it, it's really good.
Speaker 1:I think I started it. I didn't. Yeah, it was like the playoff of what they were doing on HBO.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that was not right. The HBO one was terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it was well done, it just was fabricated greatly, Amazingly. Well, it was well done, it just was fabricated greatly, amazingly fabricated. No, no, no, it wasn't well done, it was entertaining, but at the expense of truth, I was stuck.
Speaker 2:I was like is this happening?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, but you're in that space and that world, so those are personal friends of yours. So I would imagine that would be even more difficult it was something else, but nobody mentioned that, nobody talked about that one. Yeah, no, no, no, but I think, as it relates to sports documentaries, Bono's.
Speaker 2:How about the ones who never won? The greatest who never won. The greatest who never won is probably the greatest documentary. Those are amazing.
Speaker 1:Marcus Dupree.
Speaker 2:Oh my god Amazing. Hands down.
Speaker 1:If you talk about pound for pound. That's probably the best.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can't stop watching it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing. I'm watching it and I'm like 30 for 30 never does two hours. Why are they doing two hours on this and five?
Speaker 2:minutes in.
Speaker 1:I know why this is about to be a two-hour documentary. I cannot believe I have a line in there that I use when he talks about everything he went through and he says I should have listened to my mama. I'm like this really boils down to the summation of everything that happens in life. Should have listened to my mama. That's what it boils down to. Should have listened to my mama.
Speaker 2:That is the greatest it ever was. I think it comes on every Thanksgiving because I feel like I'm watching it.
Speaker 1:It's the best sports documentary.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. That's why I got into 30 on 30s because of that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that one is definitely the best of the 30 on 30s. It doesn't have the most flair. It's obviously the most famous person on there but, the storyline absolutely and the flow and the redemption, and it is, it is, it is okay. You said that um, how do you, how do you? You don't eat grits.
Speaker 2:This is getting bad I know how to make grits.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you can't even enter into this debate of sugar or salt.
Speaker 2:You're from Detroit, I'm from LA.
Speaker 1:And the answer is sugar.
Speaker 2:Why would you put sugar in grits?
Speaker 1:This is terrible. It's going so great, do you?
Speaker 2:ever watch the Food Network you can make. I like the fried grits, the. Food Network this is where we're going. As a legitimacy, you don't watch the Food Network.
Speaker 1:This is how we're legitimizing the quality of food.
Speaker 2:Are you legitimizing soul food or?
Speaker 1:what I mean.
Speaker 2:I can cook. Okay, Grits are not my favorite. I don't like grits like that. I like grits with cheese. Or, like you know, like grits and shrimp and grits like that. I like grits with cheese. Or, like you know, like grits and shrimp and grits like that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:I love that A couple more.
Speaker 2:Which is not sugar.
Speaker 1:Favorite place you ever visited in the world.
Speaker 2:Maui.
Speaker 1:That was a good one. Michael Jackson or Prince?
Speaker 2:Michael Jackson what.
Speaker 1:It's getting better. Listen, tell everybody where they can find you.
Speaker 2:Give me some more. I want some more.
Speaker 1:I want some more Give me some more good fun stuff. Tupac or Biggie.
Speaker 2:Tupac.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can agree with that. I can agree with that, even though.
Speaker 2:Biggie, you know our birthdays are close. I know all the lyrics to all of his songs.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's an unfair question, because Tupac had a greater work, had more works, more music, more catalog, bigger reach, more introspective.
Speaker 2:Wow, whoa, that's a lot.
Speaker 1:That's a lot. Yeah, well, let's pray for him. I don't know what you mean, but yeah, pray for him and TD Jakes. Yeah, I mean, we don't know what's true, and I'm not saying it to be politically correct, I'm just saying that from the standpoint of.
Speaker 1:It is mysterious to me how the FBI can how strategic not even FBI, mainstream media in general when they attack a person and how in the midst of them telling these stories. None of this is breaking news to anybody that's connected to any social circles. So let's take we're throwing names out which we shouldn't, but we're already in the water. Let's take R Kelly.
Speaker 2:I was somewhere and they played his music. I was like are we supposed to enjoy this?
Speaker 1:Are we supposed to do this? Are we supposed to step in the name of love? It sounds good, but but none of this that If you were slightly tapped into the music world circle, you knew these stories.
Speaker 2:Right, but I feel like he doesn't have enough money exactly, or popularity at this point, um the skate and he's and diddy's kind of cross-cultural, whereas r kelly's not. Really was it and diddy did.
Speaker 1:He has more money, like you said, more access to more money because, right, more money is relative and how we count it in America.
Speaker 2:And influence because you know he was in those political circles, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, I feel bad about that, I feel bad, I want my pastor everywhere.
Speaker 2:I mean, I invite you to my stuff, I mean, and that's not like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean going to a party. I hope people understand that. You know we have to interface in these type of social circles, but going to that type of party obviously.
Speaker 2:But it's a big house. Like I've been to the house, it's huge, of course, yeah, you can have all type of stuff going on.
Speaker 1:You don't know no clue.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you're directed to a section.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like they don't want you.
Speaker 1:Right section. Yeah, like they don't want you, right? Yeah, it's ridiculous to throw people name in the middle of stuff and all that, but that's the world we live in, that's the times we live in. So what you're gonna do, where can people find you social?
Speaker 2:media, theladylikecom um our events on june 1st. Please come on out. Uh, I'm in social media. I am leah underscore ladylike. I do stuff all the time for women. And is it wednesday, today's wednesday?
Speaker 1:yeah, what are you working on? We're not sure when it's gonna air, so what are you working on? What's coming up? What's down the pipeline?
Speaker 2:I have my luncheon coming up on the 1st. I have I'm busy every single day we'll get that information we'll put it all out there on the space.
Speaker 1:We'll put it all out there on the space, alright. Thank you for doing it. Thank you all for tuning in. Look out for our podcast, look out for Wade, so you can be a partner with us here at Nuance Conversations, and we look forward to extending our brand of having open, honest, transparent and intelligent conversations about religion, politics, social norms and pop culture.