Movies Worth Seeing

The Tragic Misstep of Joker: Folie à Deux

• Movies Worth Seeing

Share episode

Send us a text

Have you ever witnessed something simultaneously brilliant and terrible? That's the puzzling contradiction at the heart of Joker: Folie à Deux, a film that delivers breathtaking visual artistry while completely missing what made its predecessor special.

The cinematography deserves nothing but praise – the lighting, color grading, and camera work create moments of pure visual poetry. One striking example: during Arthur Fleck's interview, the lighting falls just above his eyebrows, casting half his eyes in shadow. These thoughtful visual touches appear throughout, telling a more compelling story than the actual narrative. Joaquin Phoenix's physical performance remains astonishing, his body contorting as though "some monster is trying to get out of his skin," while Lady Gaga brings depth to Harley Quinn despite the script's limitations.

But these strengths can't overcome the film's fundamental flaws. The decision to transform Joker into a musical feels like a cynical cash grab following industry trends rather than an organic storytelling choice. Even more frustrating is how the sequel systematically dismantles what made the original Joker impactful. Where the first film ended with a clear transformation from Arthur Fleck into Joker, the sequel inexplicably reverts him to a state of identity confusion. It explains away mysteries that were deliberately ambiguous, stripping the character of psychological depth. As we discuss in the podcast, "This film was like an assassination of the first movie."

The result is a beautiful-looking film that leaves viewers feeling empty and confused – a 10/5 for cinematography paired with a 1/5 for storytelling. It's a fascinating case study in how technical excellence can't salvage fundamental creative missteps. Have you seen Joker: Folie à Deux? We'd love to hear if you experienced the same conflicted reaction or if you found something in the film that we missed. Share your thoughts in the comments!

Support the show

Speaker 1:

Hey everyone and welcome to another podcast movie review. Today's episode we're talking about Joker, folia 2. That should have been the first sign that this movie was gonna suck, that it was so pretentious it couldn't just call itself Joker 2. Nah, we're like really trendy and stuff, so it's Folia, adieu. Anyway, this movie sucked us. Look, I went in with an open mind saying, all right, I know it's a musical, for whatever reason, don't know why doesn't make any sense to the story. After watching it now I'm like it definitely did not need to be the case and it was only one of many bad things about this movie I.

Speaker 2:

I thought it had all the ingredients to be absolutely amazing. It really did. The mixed feelings I have with it is the cinematography was amazing. Yeah, the film was great.

Speaker 1:

It just unfortunately had nothing to say.

Speaker 2:

It was the perfect example of a cash grab but this is so typical of the current and hopefully the ending of this movie era of where, since 2020, it has gone to it is trying to following a trend for the sake of getting money. Look at wonka, look at mean girls. This is following the trend doing musicals. I don't know whose decision decision it was to make it a musical, but production has a final say stupid as f**king decision you can make that we're not giving the people what they want. Then you have the other side of the theme that makes this movie so f**king amazing, which is the. It is the color, the rhythm, the acting is fantastic. But you just see the division in the production of these kind of things because you see the greatness that sits behind it and where it's limited because of the production side of things, the financial, money-grabbing side of things. It's the death of creativity. You are no different than any of those people that underestimated me, and especially in a movie that has such potential such as this. How about you?

Speaker 1:

I was so intrigued to see a different actress play harley quinn. I thought this was going to right the wrongs of suicide squad in that we were properly going to see the relationship of Harley Quinn and Joker develop and the the romantic interest behind it and the complexity of their relationship, and that was just completely thrown away in this movie and completely wasted.

Speaker 1:

I gotta say I I thought Lady Gaga was excellent no, no, I no, I'm not saying Lady Gaga wasn't good, just the character. I'm saying the story of what they did with the characters. Oh yeah, rakeen Phoenix. The first shot where we saw him, the way the dude contorts his body, similar to the first Joker film, it's like some monsters trying to get out of his skin. It's fantastic.

Speaker 2:

So much shape, he's fantastic.

Speaker 1:

It's so misshaped it is great. It's just the direction. The creative whole of what they're doing with these characters is fucking terrible. The musical idea bad, not needed, and at one point even Joker tells Harley Quinn like no.

Speaker 2:

I don't want to sing anymore.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to sing anymore.

Speaker 2:

Stop singing. Talk to me, talk to me.

Speaker 1:

And I was clapping in the cinema. I was like fuck, yes, tell her no more singing damn it.

Speaker 2:

The thing that made it worse is that every time they started singing, the entire orchestra came with it. It's just a conversation between two people, with a f***ing piece of glass in between, with a couple of holes in there, and that's the only time you hear them. The point is that you can have the orchestra, but you're delivering two types of singing scenarios. One it's all an imagination, it's a fantasy. They just both disappear from reality and they create this fantasy world right, which is the justification for all the singing. But then you also have the second scenario, where they're singing and they're in reality and people are looking weird at them. It's like why the f*** are they singing? It's like cool, awesome, beautiful. Have them Like.

Speaker 2:

I love the people acting weird towards them singing because it is f***ing weird. Don't have the orchestra, Don't have the instruments that appear out of nowhere. If it's in their fantasy, sure, you can create, You've got imagination, but if it's in reality, you don't have that. So don't have the orchestra. It didn't make sense. I think that would have already made it a lot better.

Speaker 1:

You were saying after, when we watched this, you were like, oh, if he took the musicals out, it would be like a 10 out of 10 film.

Speaker 2:

I think it could, and then I was like nah, I don't think so, man.

Speaker 1:

The story of this is let's take Joker to the courtroom and dissect all the cool shit that happened in the first movie and talk about it until there's no mystery left. This film was like an assassination of the first movie, pretty much. You liked that about the first film. F*** Kill it. Kill it right now. What you had an interesting theory about. You know the ambiguity of the first film. Nah, kill it. This is exactly how it was.

Speaker 2:

Here's a good analogy for you. Here's a funny joke. You like that one? Let me explain it to you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Actually, joker gets no opportunities in this film to actually be the villain that he became at the end of the first film. Yeah, from the end of the first film, a clear distinction, a clear decision was made. He has become the Joker. He is no longer Arthur Fleck. How about you, arthur? Do you still think you're a star? But for some reason, follier Du decides, follier Huck Du decides let's just ignore that part. He doesn't know who he is yet. He's conflicted about becoming the Joker and it's like he doesn't have multiple personality disorder. He had already become the Joker. Why not just make a story that continues down that path of him being the full-fledged criminal kind of underworld boss that we know he is going to become? That was a completely f***ing stupid decision mate.

Speaker 2:

Let's break down a few aspects a little bit more. When it comes to cinematography, camera angles, the color grading, the lighting, all that kind of stuff technical side of things it's a 10 out of 10. But what's the point if there's no message behind it? No, I agree, and this is why I have such mixed feelings about this movie. I appreciate the immense amount of layers that these actors have Brendan Gleeson, lee Gill and Joaquin Phoenix, if I haven't said his name already. For example, the first live interview with Arthur Flack.

Speaker 2:

With Steve Coogan, yes, did you see the lighting? The lighting came from above and it just over his eyebrows and just marks half his eyes. Half was in the shade and half was in the light. Those tiny little things. Oh, I just told so many things, tiny little things. Oh, I just told so many things. But the reason I get so many mixed feelings about it is that how can it give me such a great feeling as if it's a masterpiece, while the message is garbage, while the story arc is garbage, the payoff for the setup that it had garbage. The music I expect over the age terrible. But for some reason the cinematography just created an illusion as if it's an amazing piece of work.

Speaker 1:

It is sad that the DOP will not get his proper dues because the film as a whole is just not up there. When I think of the first film, there's moments I go oh f***, I love that scene, I love this scene, I love that quote, I love that moment. I don't have any of that with this, to the point where I was so out of it I was like I was literally dozing off and then addy like tapped me, like, oh, something happened. Something happened. It was near the end of the of the movie and I saw it and I felt nothing. This pivotal moment happened that I should feel something. It happened and I just went.

Speaker 2:

I don't care. Yeah, it was not impactful whatsoever.

Speaker 1:

And then that decision meant nothing in the grand scheme of things anyway, because the character ended up back where we started anyway. They really let him down. They let the Joker character down as a whole. Well, he's not Not as bad, but it reminded me of the Matrix 4 in that it felt like someone creatively is self-sabotaging this movie. Because how can you make decisions this stupid unless you purposely want to assassinate the character or the or the world? Warner brothers probably wanted the sequel. Todd phillips was like we don't need a sequel. Joker was great as a one-off and at one point he changes his mind and says all right, you want a sequel, I'll give you a sequel and it's gonna be so shit, you'll never f***ing bother me again to make a sequel. I don't know, creative people are weird sometimes.

Speaker 2:

I'm still so confused by what I should feel about this movie. It's so confusing. I'm just so confused, so confused. So One to five, sorry, from a zero to five stars, how many would you give it?

Speaker 1:

Folia Two Gets Two hot twos out of five from me. This reaffirmed to me why I hate sequels. I didn't want to believe the reviews. I was hoping that this was similar to the original joker in that all the reviews come back negative. You go see it and you're like blown away, like wow, this is so different to everything else that's going on in the movie landscape, especially in the world of DC, where you have an actually good film that was well told, took chances with its lore but respected the character. All of that was completely lost with this sequel. What was your final reign?

Speaker 2:

and I would give it a one out of five for the uh, for the message of the story, but I would give it a f***ing 10 out of 5 for cinematography. I just can't get over it. I could just see so many little details that they really thought through that are just so impactful. It's like, oh, the story is so f***ing clear and it's so good. Only if there was more of a story. I think I'll average it out and I'll give it a three and a half out of five and I just I I'm just so confused, man, I'm just so fucking confused I, I, I feel that there was only one scene in this movie where I said to myself there is some heart in Sol.

Speaker 1:

This is what I wanted more of. There's a scene with Lee Gill, who reprises his role from the first Joker, and it was phenomenal man, he was f***ing awesome. Also, don't tell this to yourself, it isn't him. He's got some great moments and the story is actually allowing him and Joker to have some moments where I'm feeling some emotions, where something has carried over from the first film. It was only like two or three minutes, unfortunately, but it was more saddening to see that and be like there was potential for this. Why is this not there? You had it and you f***ed it. You f***ed all of us over. Puddles was really good. Yeah, puddles was f***ing amazing. Anyway, that's uh. Yeah, that's us guys, unfortunately. Who would have thought a bad superhero movie, right? Wow, the sarcasm is great. I mean, now that I think about I'm what a d***head I am Like a superhero movie. That's also a sequel. Why would this fail? And it's Warner Brothers.

Speaker 2:

I wish the signs were there.

Speaker 1:

How did I have any expectations? All right, that's us guys. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a comment below. Let us know your thoughts on Joker 2. And like, share and subscribe for more videos like this.