Pools, Pressure and Public Value

Aquatic facilities are more than pools. They are community infrastructure, water safety environments, health and wellbeing spaces, employment hubs, teaching venues and public assets.

In this episode of Aquatics Only, Luke Daly and David Stennett explore the pressure currently sitting around aquatic facilities, councils, operators and communities.

The conversation begins with an industry round-up, including changes at Australasian Leisure Management, the upcoming World’s Largest Swimming Lesson, and recent facility management movements involving Aligned Leisure, BlueFit and City Venue Management.

From there, Luke and David open up a broader discussion around tenders, local government decision-making, capital expenditure, operating costs and long-term viability. They ask whether tender processes are helping clarify value — or whether complexity is making it harder to focus on what communities actually need.

The episode also touches on ageing aquatic assets, cost-of-living pressure, regional impacts, swim school participation, and the role of industry events such as ASSA Swimposiums and upcoming conferences in keeping the sector connected.

As always, it is a serious industry conversation with the usual Aquatics Only side roads — including braces, learning German, broccoli economics, Aqualadies and just enough cheek to keep things moving.

In this episode:

• Recent aquatic facility management changes across Australia
• The growing complexity of tender processes
• Why capital cost is only part of the facility story
• The relationship between operating pressure and public value
• Cost-of-living impacts on swim schools, operators and families
• The challenge of ageing community aquatic infrastructure
• ASSA Swimposiums, conference season and industry connection
• Why aquatic facilities need to be viewed as essential community assets

Aquatics Only is for the people leading, managing and shaping the aquatics industry — practical, conversational and not afraid to ask what the sector needs to do better.

Thanks for listening to Aquatics Only. If you’re in swim schools, aquatic facilities, lifeguarding, learn-to-swim, programs, products, or anything water safety related, you’re in the right place.

Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and if this one was useful, share it with someone in the industry.

Want to get involved or have a guest/topic suggestion? Reach out: aquaticsonlypod@gmail.com

Transcript

David (00:00)
Yes indeed, it is our voices again. I know you've missed us. We are back in fact. Well, we were almost back and then we weren't back, but that's a whole nother story. But before we get to that story, Luke Daley, g'day.

Luke (00:10)
Hello David, good to be back with you. Look, this is a lot shorter timeline than the distance between our last one before the one before that. So I feel like we could only get better from here.

David (00:19)
Yes, should we inform people of what we're talking about because we were making a comeback and then the comeback didn't quite make the comeback because look we do like our listeners too much to inflict them with what our last podcast recording actually sounded like.

Luke (00:33)
And, and despite what most people think about us, we actually do take ourselves a little bit seriously. The quality of that podcast, not from a content. The content is always good, obviously. But the audio quality was ⁓ not good. That was awful. So here we are a couple of weeks after a bit of a false starts, I might say on the comeback to our, but you know what? We're back. And I think the distance it's still relative. Like the joke that we made last time that it was a shorter distance and it still is. Yeah. So we're good.

David (01:03)
getting shorter.

Luke (01:04)
Yep,

getting shorter and shorter. ⁓ David. Yes. Do you sound funny? And not because I made you sound funny because editing like last time.

David (01:08)
Yes.

No, thank you for making me sound crazy, but I can do that myself. So no, I've still got these funny braces on at my age and speaking a little bit weird, but hey, my teeth are looking better, so that's okay. There's a win.

Luke (01:26)
So you've got braces later in your life. You're nearly 50.

David (01:30)
Yeah, I'm nearly 50, okay? So 50 next year.

Luke (01:33)
I'm sensing a bit of a theme here that you do things a bit later in life. Get braces, for example, learning to swim. that a progress? Can you give us an update?

David (01:42)
Yeah, well, maybe it's something we should have talked about on this podcast and maybe I have. The learn to swim has gone miraculously bad.

Luke (01:52)
you to?

David (01:53)
lack of me putting my body into a pool and practicing and reaching out to wonderful people like Kim Rigby up at Kowana on the Sunshine Coast who's offered me more than once to come in and to help me and I've said yeah of course I'll come and I've never turned up so I've been that

Luke (02:09)
Don't be that guy.

I've been thinking more and more lately about as an adult, what's something

David (02:17)
When did that happen for you? You've had to shave right?

Luke (02:18)
adult. Yeah.

It might happen one day where I become an adult. Cutie. Look, I think what's one thing though that you've started to do as your older, not braces. Swimming is probably the most apt example for you, but I don't think I've tried to learn anything new. Language, sport. Okay.

David (02:36)
But it was about your age I started doing it. So as I hit my mid thirties, I started looking and thinking, okay, I'm getting older. I need to start learning. And so I stupidly decided to learn a language. useful. Yeah, but it was, it was stupid. thought, you know, I failed German at high school cause I hated it. And I thought, no, I'm going to make a comeback with German. I'm going to learn it. I had a trip to Germany lined up. So I actually went to Germany and the first time I practiced my German at a train station in Munich, I walked up to someone in Schuhligung.

Luke (02:47)
Which one?

David (03:05)
which means excuse me, and the guy just looked at me and went, would you like to speak English? And that was the end of my German-ness.

Luke (03:12)
Was that Arnold Schwarzenegger

David (03:15)
I

speak English, they all speak like this. They all speak better English than you.

Luke (03:22)
It's hurtful. It's a low bar. Yeah. Ouch. That is hurtful. Well, we are here to bring you the latest in Aquatics News. That's probably the... right.

David (03:30)
Sorry,

it's not the insult Lucae Poseidon. My apologies.

Luke (03:33)
Or

spend 20 minutes talking about David's learning German episode either.

David (03:37)
Hey, look, there's a whole bunch that has been going on. So why don't we just jump on in, but when we say dive on in, let's make a splash, all those stupid puns that we've made too many times in this industry. It's like when a CEO introduces himself and says, I'm the chief entertainment officer. It's like, it's been done, let's move on.

there is important news going on, let's, well, pun on in. So, a couple of news stories a week. What have we got going on around the grounds?

Luke (04:02)
What's hard to keep up with all the news stories, but there's a lot of different things going on. You might rant, you always rant, you grumpy old man. Have you got your New Balance on today? Yes, I do. Of course you do. Yeah, shoes. Yeah, three sets of the same.

David (04:06)
I'm gonna rant today.

But

Actually

my favourite comfort shoes are my Merrell's, probably the most comfortable shoes in the world, they are amazing.

Luke (04:20)
too

narrow for me, but anyway, look, a good news source. Let's start with the news about the news source or one of our news sources, which is Australasian Leisure Management. ALM. ALM, Nijoy. Taking back ownership of that and a big adjustment there too. They've more recently published their last print edition of the magazine with more of an emphasis and a focus on digital distribution. Dave, you've got any comment on that?

David (04:29)
Hello Nigel, hello Karen.

I've

got the last issue sitting on my desk at my office so I will hold on to that and treasure it because I think that print has been an important part of getting news out and now times have changed so yeah I think that's great good on them well done and congratulations and look forward to seeing where it goes and hopefully we get a bit more of a run there Nigel, Karen hello

Luke (05:04)
Hey, hey, and look, the newsletter is coming out frequently. The website's looking good. Had a bit of a refresh there. So check all that out. And it does keep us up to speed with a lot of the different happenings around the place,

David (05:15)
you being

sponsored by them in some way?

Luke (05:18)
We should be definitely after. We just have to get a Sydney for that David. ⁓ We can do that. right. Quick industry roundup from a news perspective. reckon we go straight to the global perspective because that's how much of a big deal we are. World's largest swimming lesson coming up in June. ASSA is partnering with that. I think it's a pretty cool

David (05:19)
Okay, Alright Nigel, coffee's on you.

right

up your alley so I'm just gonna let you keep talking because you are the Australian Swim Schools Association I can tell because it's on your t-shirt right now across your chest.

Luke (05:46)
No,

thank you. There's, probably not too much to update on just that we'll be actively participating in it. And we've been partnering with them for a number of years, but I think that'll be a pretty cool initiative coming through. ⁓ we're going to go from global straight down to the local level, David, let's talk about some of these, local operator changes. This is probably delving a bit beyond news. We're going to go a bit deeper on this one because I feel like there's a lot of, a lot of shuffling or that maybe the potential for a lot of shuffling at the

David (06:14)
All right, facility management changes, all of this type of stuff, the move around, tenders and so forth, things being updated, moves around, human resources, brands associated, all of that stuff. Where do you want to start? Align Leisure in VIC

Luke (06:28)
Yeah, one of our most loyal listeners, Simon Bryson, hey, and the team there at Aligned Leisure being awarded the Yarra Rangers facilities. that's a huge transition, six facilities, which is going to be a massive operational effort and change there for them to happen.

David (06:42)
Yeah, Simon and his team, if I know them they're going to be all over it, right behind it. They run a pretty good ship, hey?

Luke (06:48)
Yeah, cross to Adelaide, we got a BlueFit ⁓ fluoro.

David (06:53)
Florio is I reckon so let us know is it Flurio or Florio? I think it's Florio, the Florio Aquatic Centre. Beautiful part of the world down on the Florio Peninsula by the way. Lots of beautiful beaches, lots of good wine and food and not too far from the beautiful city of Adelaide as well. Congratulations Bluefit there.

Luke (07:14)
think

one more that we're going to discuss quickly and I just saw this come out today at the time of recording is city venue management being awarded the settlement Cove lagoons that's up here.

David (07:23)
Yeah, in Redcliffe, right? So it's not really my neck of the woods, I'm a bit further north. It's not really your neck of the woods, you're a bit further south, so it's somewhere around our sternum of the woods.

Luke (07:32)
Yeah, I guess so. We both have to travel the same time to get there. would suggest exactly about 45 minutes. Probably not where I'm going to go that frequently. However, I did grow up as a kid around that particular area and I know the lagoon very well. So congratulations to city venue management for taking that on. But I think let's have a bit of a discussion instead of just skipping straight over that. Okay. The tender process, ⁓ the environment at least seems to be getting more complex.

David (07:37)
It's turning me.

It's so complex.

Luke (07:59)
Council's

trying to make smart decisions, which I appreciate as a rate payer, that they are making smarter or perceived to be smarter decisions. Operators trying to build sustainable models and everyone trying to balance cost, community value and long-term viability, Dave. Don't rant too hard.

David (08:15)
Sometimes we try to make things simple and we end up making them more complex and I think that's happened. I'm not necessarily talking about one council anywhere. We know the guys who really go into local government pretty much genuinely start out with an interest in serving their local community and wanting to do the best. You know it's easy to talk down about local governments and any sort of politician but...

the intent at the start would have to believe is to try and do the right thing. Unfortunately, in doing the right thing, sometimes it gets a bit complex and we've seen issues with that fail. North Sydney, hello, you'd be a really terrific example of that. I've ranted about that before and the cost to our community and I might rant about that a little bit later, we'll see. ⁓ But the complexity around this and using third parties and more third parties to verify third parties

rather than just getting maybe three quotes, laying them out and working out which one's going to pass the pub test for our constituents and for our ratepayers and serve our community in the best possible way.

Luke (09:16)
Did you go to the capital expenditure side then or the operational side then? Yes. Yeah. I thought you covered off on both. I think it makes it very challenging. So kudos. If anyone wants to come on and talk about this process, I think that'd be super fascinating.

David (09:30)
And those things matter too and we should talk more about it because you've got capital expense. But the capital expense has an operational expense at the end of the day. So we built it cheap but it's going to cost more to run. Well, no. What are our five, 10 year, 15 forecasts on this? And as an industry we talk about this, we should be better at creating frameworks and connectivity that actually works together. We've got the same desires no matter where we are, whether we're in regional Western Queensland or in the city of Melbourne.

We're still doing the same sort of things on these sites. There's swimming, there's laps, there's sport, there's aqualadies, there's, what am I missing Luke? Well, learn to swim, sorry, learn to swim.

Luke (10:08)
one of the main features of an Aquatic Centre naturally, apart from the Aqualadies, we know that Karen's really a roost. Actually, I should tell a quick story, if you don't mind. We had a new starter on Team ASSA more recently, and I was working with her and we went out to see one of the pools and she was blown away by the Aqualadies and the volume of them. ⁓

David (10:28)
volume as in the sheer number or how loud they are.

Luke (10:32)
I think one informs the other. Yeah. So, but also they speak very quietly at the same time to make an impact, just a quiet little word with the mayor. know what I mean? Yeah. That's how they get it done. That's right. So yes, they're allowed in the, in the pool together, but those Aqua instructors as well, lots of energy, David, I do love to see it, but she remarked to me, Keeta if you're listening, she remarked to me that that's her goal one day.

David (10:55)
If you're listening,

like she's employed by you. 100 %

Luke (10:57)
You know, it should be part of the job requirements. Yeah.

Performance metric. Yeah. But yet that's Keeta's go one day. Now we know stands out there as well. That's not, that's true. Yeah. So we've got three and the two of us in the room make up a total of five. So that's good.

David (11:03)
There's least one more listener besides Slayne.

Rand up to a hundred.

Luke (11:17)
standard conversation there we went fairly serious and then absolutely bombarded ourselves by dribbling.

David (11:22)
We should be

able to build sustainable models. There's no reason with a skill set right across our industry. We go to these symposiums year after year, month after month, different groups running them.

We've got the skill set sitting in that room. This is an industry full of talented, capable businesses, a lot of intellectual property and knowledge that could work together and actually create solutions ⁓ that solve the problem of ageing assets in our communities that need work. I mean, we talk about the Victorian budget that came out, the investment in Victoria towards swim. I can't remember what that was. Is that in our notes somewhere? Do we have that? Whatever the investment was, was, you could gloss over it go, here it is, X amount of million dollars.

But you start to split that out amongst the aging facilities in Victoria and realise that it's not even a bandaid. ⁓ It's an open festering wound that they've just not even got enough of a bandaid to try and stick on it.

Luke (12:18)
And it just feels like a small appeasement and a drop in the ocean that wouldn't even satisfy you.

David (12:23)
Let's

a number out there and hope people glaze over.

Luke (12:26)
Which they do. It was like they're in the federal budget the other day. What do we get? $1,000 deduction in 2027 or something?

David (12:32)
$150 on something you go. Yep. Yep. Thanks. Great Yeah, that'll that won't even fill my tank up with petrol diesel

Luke (12:35)
Thanks, champ

We won't even get halfway through on your tank either, Stennett Which kind of leads us to one of our next discussion points, probably getting bit long in the tooth now, not being felt as perhaps direct.

David (12:51)
Link, speak for yourself, but let's go.

Luke (12:54)
I

have a V8 diesel too, like as in I feel the diesel price, but more recently.

David (12:59)
feel

the cost of broccoli on the table. It's $8 a kilo for broccoli. Anybody else snap off the stems at the shops and just leave them behind? Apparently that's a bit of a dick move. That's a hack. Well, but I go, I don't want it. You're making me buy the You're not really eating. No.

Luke (13:15)
That's

a good point. It's a bit like T-bone steak. I find T-bone steaks a bit like that. And apples, the core. You can't eat the core.

David (13:23)
take the core out, take the apple. Banana, take the peel off, just only take the banana. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, come to me for more tips and I'm a parent so I park in the parents place even though my kids are growing up. I'm still a parent so I still park there. There's nothing wrong with it.

Luke (13:28)
How to save money with David Stennett

It would take 24 hours at the shop though.

Yeah.

David (13:42)
But cost of living pressures, that's what we're getting to. And we might be mucking around a little bit here, but it is real. if you're not feeling it, then happy you.

Luke (13:54)
Good. Yeah. But I think they are real. The fuel prices certainly impacted us around that Easter mark. They seem to have subsided mostly. However, the excise isn't back on yet. So those will come back when Albo decides he wants his money again. But they did hit at a really bad time as well. Then that kind of changes season mark and they hit in a really interesting time for look, things are often felt.

more extreme in the regions, as distance to get there, the distance to get there informs you. And you go, okay. So we did notice it a lot more in the regions, particularly on the swim school side of things. Things seem to have stabilized a bit now with, numbers holding as we come into the winter period. But yeah, I think it's, it's something that did impact us and we'll continue. Hopefully globally, they can get their stuff together and maintain the level of peace that they've got going right now. But.

David (14:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Look, to me, this leads into that. That was a few weeks ago. We were talking about that in the last podcast that we're not going to inflict on our loyal three listeners.

So cost of living then links into we've just had the budget drop. And one of the funniest things I see, I don't scroll a whole lot, but on Facebook in the last week has been mum and dad, small businesses, bringing Albo into a picture while they're working and saying, meet our newest business partner. He's worth 47 % of our business. Albo Albanese, the prime minister. Hello, if you're listening. Yeah, I think he's got time. not sure what else he does, but

Luke (15:20)
I think he's got time.

David (15:26)
The cost now of business through the complexities we spoke about around tenders, but also the complexities now around tax, the complexities around obligations at all of these levels and the fact that the government wants to be taking a slightly bigger cut or even if it's not a bigger cut for you and your business, the changes always bring complication. Change always brings consideration of the complication to operational methodology.

Luke (15:53)
Yeah, that's right. mean, I have enjoyed seeing those memes out there. I've also enjoyed watching people trying to stick up for them and be like, you know, it's fine. Like if I see one more of these posts, I'm going to get really annoyed. It is, it's just kind of a little bit funny at the same time as well, but the complexities that come with that people navigating, sorry. We do have another list, a listener and that's my mom.

David (16:15)
Luke's mom speaking of money finances and

Luke (16:18)
She's

an accountant, but she's got, it's just going to get too annoying and complex to manage. She goes, if I have to learn this again, she's getting.

David (16:24)
You have a with your mum's accounting. She's too honest. Like, you've just got to be a bit more creative. I bet she doesn't peel the bananas at the shops.

Luke (16:27)
Nice.

Jives me nuts. Yeah. Keeps me safe.

no, she probably picks up your peels that you've left behind. to even things out. She's good like that. No, but it just gets more complex and then that more complexity for the accountants means more costs on us to pay the accountants to try and work it out for us.

David (16:38)
for them.

all of that stuff. look, we can go into more depth on that another time. We just wanted to touch on it as we come back. Let's move on from that, Luke. Maybe we start looking, wrap this up today, go around the grounds, some of the things that happening. Where are we gonna see you out there?

Luke (17:03)
Yeah.

So everywhere prolific, obviously. Mr. worldwide people. ⁓ So I actually jet off very soon to go to the Canadian swim school Alliance conference because we run the operations for Canadian school. So I'm going to have to practice my, practice my niceness and not get them confused with Americans because they don't appreciate that. Be like the Kiwis.

David (17:06)
Universal and worldwide.

So you can be Kiwi. ⁓

Luke (17:29)
Yeah. Yes. Cheer bro. Yes. Cheer bro. But then when I get back, yes, free plug. Cause again, perks of having your own podcast, the ASSA Swimposiums our teacher education days. Cause you can't have a good business without having good teachers, David.

David (17:41)
And

of course you've thrown the other pun in there diving right into a swim posium instead of a symposium so thanks for that, that's great.

Luke (17:46)
You're welcome. A little

bit corny. You know what I mean? But hey, looks good. He makes it look good. They're happening all around Australia and also in Auckland across the month of June.

David (17:54)
And

look if I remember there was some good noise around that, lots of people recommended like 94 % I believe is the number there and 400 delegates across the locations. It's good, you're gonna be everywhere, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Adelaide, Perth and Auckland, put that in a song, let's go Auckland.

Luke (18:08)
We probably could put it into a song if you want me to, ⁓ happening. as we speak was the RV regional conference, which is in Geelong. I believe that's wrapped up now. The conference in Newcastle at next down there is happening at the end of May.

David (18:16)
G long

Luke (18:23)
Yeah. What's ours in Brisbane? Or mine, because you're a sunny coast. Because I don't think it is a sunny coast. Old coast.

David (18:28)
I don't know if there is really one. Ipswich?

Gold Coast? Not Ipswich? Oh well both those are coastal. I don't know. Interesting thought. Coastal? Maybe we don't have one. Queensland is our thing. It's just South East Queensland. That's what we are. We are one, but we are many. Splash? Yeah, splash. You going to that? Yeah, I'll be there. Come and say hello to me.

Luke (18:36)
if so, just use it.

us.

Tray Show in

back of that is obviously Spark 2026. So the week after on the Gold Coast as well. are, that's right. Astro and ARQ on that one. Aotearoa waves this year as well. And yeah, I think, are you exhibiting it's

David (18:55)
with IRQ.

Yeah, I'll be on the electronic stand. I'll be there hanging around or trying not to cause too much trouble, but no promises Luke

Luke (19:11)
Yeah, I might poke down and have a look as well, although I'll be getting very ready to spark a...

David (19:15)
What's

this next note? Are you going to tell me about this?

Luke (19:17)
Hopefully you're available but you are exhibiting at the Spark conference, you do know that. ⁓ But also, Beyond That, would you mind hosting the awards there for me? You're with Duncan again.

David (19:22)
Sure!

Am I with Duncan again? He's

not bad. He's very good. My problem isn't him, it's me keeping up with him. That is true. He's prolific, he's quick, he's sharp, he's smart. My one line is against him, I've got no more new ones and he's got new ones every year again.

Luke (19:42)
We do pay one of you to do it. that's, you know, hopefully we're getting our money's I'll get you a watch.

David (19:49)
I just ignore that. Look, it's good to be back. At the end of the day, it's good to be back. There's plenty of happening, plenty to get involved in. There's plenty of ways to stay connected, you know, partly through this podcast. Yeah, we don't have to cram the entire industry into one episode. So we've tried not to do that to you today. We just wanted to be back. And we, you know, with our warm, cheeky, purposeful industry for ourselves.

Luke (19:50)
Right.

Which we should do more regularly. Yeah, some might say

David (20:18)
That's us.

Luke (20:19)
industry cheerleaders. That's what I remember. You Googled it. mean, chat GPT did however you do your search.

David (20:24)
Stop

Google cheerleaders.

Luke (20:27)
No, no, no, that was the feedback that came back. It said that David and Luke are industry cheerleaders.

David (20:31)
When I googled us yeah, it was really nice line. Yeah

Luke (20:36)
It was our line because that's how chat GPT works. They're large language models, mate. They just regurgitate what they

David (20:41)
Yeah,

you get your braces on too. You're just drunk.

Luke (20:43)
No,

I'm just reading Dr. Seuss. That'll do us for today, David, surely. We've covered fuel prices, North Sydney, not much. Not much. A little bit of Adelaide. Hey Adelaide. They're just close to Renaults. That's what we were meant to cover off on, but we didn't because we didn't follow the show notes.

David (20:49)
Budgets. Swimming lessons. Tenders.

Adelaide's doing good. If we're to take a model with North Sydney versus Adelaide, that's probably a whole other discussion that we could look at. One's worked and one hasn't.

Luke (21:10)
I just

wanted to round out,

David (21:13)
We're

back, we're almost at the end, we're stepping back from the cliff.

Luke (21:17)
It drives

me nuts that we only ever zoom in on the negative side when there are so many good stories where projects actually run on time and where projects actually run on budget. Do you want to the common denominator? Typically nothing to do with local government, state government or federal government.

David (21:33)
Who would have thought? Look, as always, it's been a joy to be a part of this industry with you, Luke, and with you, our dear listener. Hey, look, we appreciate listening to it quite as suddenly. Share it with your friends, inflict it on your family. Talk soon, we'll see you next time. Ayo.

Luke (21:42)
Singular, Singular Lister

Let's go.