Chickens Every Day
Dedicated to helping backyard chicken owners keep the happiest and healthiest flocks we can.
Chickens Every Day
Pt. 3 w/Jeff Mattocks: Feed Smarter For Healthier Backyard Chickens
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Welcome And Quick Setup
SPEAKER_00And you know, I'm I I'm that guy. Uh a friend of mine years ago that I worked with, you know, nicknamed me the high tech redneck. So I'm always looking for things that I can do on a technical side of an issue, but I also look for things that I can do on a nutrition side of the issue. One of the things that I would do that I'll put in the top of my feeder, uh, and it my feeder generally would go for a good solid three weeks uh before it needs to be refilled is your poultra poultry neutra balance. And I don't really measure it. You know, I take a couple of good handfuls and I put it in the top, and it's and it's so well granulated that as they uh as the fee level goes down, the stuff kind of trickles down into them. And so, you know, and I I know it's good for the birds. I don't know what it's doing for them, but I know it's helping them and it makes me feel better. And a 10-pound bag lasts a very long. And it's something, you know, if if you want to do your chickens like me, and you and you're that guy that may just say, This is important to me, I want them to be healthy. I want them to be, and the healthier the bird is, the less likely they are to get sick and disease. We all know that the same way with humans. And if you want to keep your birds healthy, think about that nutrition value. One of the things that I also put on the top of the feed is red pepper flakes. I don't know if they do a thing in the world, but I was told years ago when I was a boy that red pepper flakes keep worms away. They don't stop worms if you get them, but they help keep them away. I don't know if it's true. I know that chickens don't taste heat, so I put a couple of fists full of red pepper flakes on there as well.
SPEAKER_01That's good.
SPEAKER_00If it's if it rains a lot, and and our winter is usually our rainy season, although this year we're we're in a drought. Uh, but if it rains a lot a lot, I start thinking about what's growing out there in my ground. And then I may add a little bit of herbs, oregano, and thyme uh on the top of my feed. Not too much, because I know you said if you do too much, it's like everything else. Once your body gets used to it, then the effect of it starts going away. And what they call in in the drug world, it's called efficacy and how well it it makes a change. So you don't want to overdo that. But if I see something coming, that's when I want to do that. And if I understand correctly, oregano and and time are like the body's natural uh antibody, antibiotic for a chicken.
SPEAKER_01Right. They're uh each of those have their own antimicrobial effect.
SPEAKER_00And I'm correct that you don't want to overdo this, you don't want to overdo it, right?
Rodents Free Choice Feeding Risks
Nutrient Balancer As Stress Support
Bucket Time And Chicken Instincts
SPEAKER_01So, you know, in um well, let's break it down for somebody at like a one pound of feed. So if they pull off one pound of chicken feed, about a teaspoon of oregano, dried oregano leaves, and about a teaspoon of thyme, and about a teaspoon of red pepper flake or cayenne, um, is it the right amount per pound, right? And you know, that's kind of maintenance levels, that's not treatment level. And it's true, right? So internal parasites do not like capsicum or capsation, which is what you know, the burn part of red pepper. Okay. Okay. A chicken can't uh poultry do not taste or feel the hot from red pepper. Okay. Um, they don't they don't feel it at all. Now, the the other nice thing, if you go to a cayenne powder, which is a little bit harder to handle, only because if you get it in your eyes or you get it up your nose, you're not going to be happy, but um it'll mix more thoroughly, but it'll also help keep mice and rats out of your chicken feet. So we didn't talk about this earlier. One of the negative sides of free choice feeding your chicken is having feed out there all the time, you will attract mice and rats and rodents. Okay. So if you have chickens long enough, you will eventually have a mouse or rat problem, right? So they're gonna come. Um, so if you limit feed them where the feeder is pretty much empty at the end of the day, then you won't you won't run into that issue. But yeah, adding little bits of different kinds of herbs and seasonings uh is a good thing for your chicken as well. Um if you want to if you want to play with an experiment on your own, you were talking about using the poultry nutrient balancer, but I had a customer in uh Minnesota, and he actually put a pan of poultry nutribalancer out by itself, free choice for the hens. Yeah, you and I are uh that's exactly what I did too. I'm like, they're not gonna eat that. Every time a major weather event, you know, change in weather came through, particularly for him, a snowstorm, they would clean out that pan, they would empty it. And they knew enough that it was a stress reliever for them that they would eat it for the stress relief. And so you can do it that way as well. You know, most of the time you're gonna look at it and say, they're not eating it, I'm wasting my time. And then all of a sudden, one day, you know, when you got a hurricane showing up, they're gonna clean it out, right? They're just gonna wipe it out, right? And and how they know, I don't know, right? Um you know, we often sit back and talk about how you know dumb chickens are um by some of the things they do. You know, if you spend more time actually watching them, and it's what I call bucket time, right? So you take your five-gallon bucket and you sit there, take something with you that you like to drink, you know, iced tea, lemonade, whatever, your whatever your joy, your beverage or choice is, cup of coffee, um, and just sit there and observe them, like right after you feed them. Feed them, sit there and give it about 10 minutes, um, 10 to 15 minutes, just watch them. And when they do something unusual, instead of saying, Oh, what a dumb chicken, right? Why don't you figure out why they did that?
SPEAKER_00Why they did that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, they had a reason why they did that. And, you know, that's why I said, you know, keeping birds in my backyard for years, a small flock for eggs, um, as an observation group, it was great, you know. Um, like guinea fowl. Did you know guinea fowl can see it uh in the dark? Most of your chickens, you can walk right up to pick them up at night, right? And put them back. Now, I chased a guinea hen for an hour one night, you know, trying and I I could not catch her, right? So yeah, if they didn't roost in trees, I'd probably still have them. But you know, the owl figured it out and uh they didn't last that long. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, what these birds just know instinctually, it can be amazing. At about a week age, whenever I have hatched chicks, I put a little dust bath in in in my brooder. And they know to get in that dust bath. From day one, they know to scratch in in that brooder. They know that that's what they do to look for something to eat in there. They know about you know, overeating. I I think they they do. I think you said one time that uh a chicken's gonna eat to its energy requirements and that's all it's going to eat for. If unfortunately you feed it fattening things, then it's gonna get fat trying to reach those requirements. If you feed it the healthy things, it's gonna get healthy reaching those requirements. They have a nice lean, lean weight. With my birds that run around outside, every year we open the fence for the garden, and by the fall, our garden's cleaned out. They will not touch the nightshades, and I never told them not to, and but I I know they're bad for them, but they don't touch them, you know, but they will consume everything else in that garden. And how they know this, I don't know. Because you know their brain's not processing well. I remember my grandmother chicken told me you do this and you'll die. You know, they don't think that way, but somehow or another they have the intelligence to realize this is not something I want to eat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, a lot of times they'll take like one peck out of a nightshade, but and they can, whether it's the alkaloids in there or whatever it is, they can tell, right? They can, you know, their body systems can tell them that this is not good for them, right? So they don't eat enough to kill them. They'll eat one or two pecks and they realize that uh I just made a mistake. You know, don't want that. Yeah, same as me. You know, I've eaten things, I've had one or two bites, and it's like, hmm, yeah, yeah, I made a mistake. I made a big mistake.
Health Problems From Overcoddling
SPEAKER_00So I I I when my wife cooks something like that, I call it camel hump. You know, she loves to try all these different wonderful dishes, but if I know it's uh yeah, I I just can't deal with then and beets when I was a boy was was that funny. So the normal chicken guy, you know, I'm raising chickens out here in my yard, and I've got 10 or 12 or even just a half dozen, you know, in a city yard. What are some of the health issues we need to keep an eye on, and how can we help mitigate that to not happen?
Air Water Feed And Label Reading
SPEAKER_01You know, most of the health issues, and I'm gonna hurt somebody's feelings here, and I'm sorry, but I'm not, is when we coddle them too much. So, like I'll see people that'll wrap their chicken coop with saran wrap, right? And you know, or tarp, and they take all the airflow away, right? So people don't understand. Here's the hierarchy of nutrients for a chicken, right? Air quality is number one. Okay. So if it stinks to you, if it smells bad, if it's too humid, whatever, air quality is number one, right? So everything goes downhill from there. Water quality is number two, right? Enough access to water, good water, good water, right? Not, you know, and I can't get people to check their water in there. I'm on rural water, it's gotta be good. Well, let me tell you, I've I can tell you that there's a lot of rural water that ain't fit to drink. So um then your feed quality, right? Finding the best quality feed that you can find. And that is really harder than the first two. Okay. So um the commercial feed industry, what you can find at Tractor Supply or at your local feed store. Most cases, you know, those are large corporate companies. They need to make a profit. They know you're voting with your dollars. So if their price gets too high, you're not gonna buy it. And I I'm here to tell you that not all feed is created equal. Okay. You need to learn how to read those feed tags. And, you know, if your listeners have not found Poultry Keepers 360, we've got podcasts out there, you know, live stream video recordings of how to read a feed tag, what's important, how you know, what are you looking for, right? Um, basic, basic nutrient requirements, right, that you want to hit. People don't understand that the better the feed, based on the feed tag, not has nothing to do with dollars and cents, right? The better the feed, right? Reading those labels, the less your bird's gonna consume. And a really great feed, uh, and we're proving this now with you know Carrie Blackman and some other guys, is where the chicken used to eat four ounces of feed. Now we're down to two and a half or three, and the bird is still maintaining proper weight and health and the whole bit. So when you get those byproducts and those fillers out of there, um, you can feed less.
Treats That Help Not Harm
SPEAKER_00And and it just goes back to their eating to their nutritional requirements, the energy that they need, you know. And if you're putting a lot of, I hate to say it, a lot of popcorn next next to your your your rice dressing, you know, you're not getting the proper nutritional requirements, so it takes more. It makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, you were talking earlier about treats for chickens, and popcorn is actually one of their favorites.
SPEAKER_00I've never fed my birds popcorn.
SPEAKER_01Yep, just just pop up some plain popcorn, and you know, once they catch on to what popcorn is, you can you can walk them all around the yard, they'll follow you with a bag of popcorn. So yeah.
DIY Chicken Electrolyte Recipe
SPEAKER_00Look, they they follow me enough as it is. You know, that they don't relate to me because they really think I have a great personality. They know I'm the guy that carries the treats around. Yeah, uh, but most of my treat, you know, black soldier fly larvae is a pretty common treat. I stay away from uh the corn and and and the and those grains until maybe winter time, whenever I want them to get get that extra heat from digestion. Uh but other than that, I really I'm not really going to give them a scratch grain during during then. But another thing I'd like to touch on, and and you've mentioned this before, is when do we want to give that, for lack of a better term, the chicken gator rate. And please tell my guys out there how they can make their own for I don't know, a tenth of the cost that you're going to go buy buy this powder and mix it up. Because I I mix up mine from your recipe and and they love it. I love it. It's easy, it's fun, you know, and it's not difficult at all.
SPEAKER_01But you know every ingredient in it, and it's healthy, right?
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it's healthy for us as well.
SPEAKER_01All right, so here's here's the recipe. People can you know write it down and rewind it. But um, two ounces of apple cider vinegar.
SPEAKER_00It's all per gallon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. One ounce of molasses, cooking molasses. You can find it at most grocery stores. Um, I like to grate up some fresh ginger, right? So when you're going through the produce aisle, get some ginger, grate it up. I put about one tablespoon of ginger in there, uh, one teaspoon of salt, you know, regular table salt. I'd prefer non-iodized if you can get that. Um, I personally use the the Redmond Real Salt out of Utah. That's that's my preference. Oh, that's that's good stuff. Yeah. I know.
SPEAKER_00Years and years and years. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um so we got the salt, uh then, and maybe since you've heard it, but I put a half a teaspoon of Epsom salt in there, and I put a quarter teaspoon of Tabasco, right? Uh cayenne pepper, right? And and that goes in a gallon of drinking water. Now, I like to let that set for two to three days with the lid loose and let it breathe because the the uh ginger is going to ferment, and the whole mix is going to ferment a little bit, and it'll give it a chance to extract out, and then you can serve that. Now, this is a stress event type fluid, right? Heat stress, like you see your birds in the middle of the summer, they're panting, they're holding their wings out. Um even if it's a stress event, like the neighbor's dog come over and harass them all day long, okay. Any type of stressful event, right? Use this for a day. Okay. And I swear it'll work better than anything you buy in a foil pouch, right? That you can mix and put in there. Um, they love it, it keeps them eating feed, it keeps them calm, right? Um, you know, if they're acting a little bit lethargic because of the weather's off, you know, it'll perk them up. So you know, you've seen it, you've tried it, you know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00So this is not something that we want to just always have available for. This is a when they need it, that's when you want to use it.
Vinegar Water And Ideal pH
SPEAKER_01Now you can, and you haven't heard this, but we do it here actually at Fortrell, where we, you know, we offer it available in a in a product called Simple Six. Um, we'll actually make that, we'll we'll put that formula together without the water, right? So we take that, that two parts vinegar, one part molasses, add the salt, the ginger, and all that, and we let that sit and ferment for a week with a loose cap, you know, so it can breathe a little bit. And then we'll strain that off, we'll put it through some cheeseclough, and we'll get the chunks of ginger out of it, and then we'll put it in a jug. It's actually shelf stable at room temperature for an extended period of time. Then you can pour off what you want when you need it. So, you know, you could go get two gallons of vinegar, one gallon of molasses, right? Figure out your ratios, add everything, and you can make up a year's worth at one time in a larger container. And then, yeah, but you know, with that vinegar in there, uh, with the vinegar and the salt and the components of it, it's shelf stable. You don't have to refrigerate it, nothing. Just put a lid on it, set it on the shelf.
SPEAKER_00So when when is it appropriate to give your birds a mixture of apple cider vinegar with the mother, guys, and and and water? Uh, is this a summertime thing, or is this something you want to use very limited? Just that and water.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm gonna get shot because there's people out there saying I'm wrong, but I've been doing vinegar and water all the time, consistently year round, for you know, well over 25 years, right? So this isn't new.
SPEAKER_00Haven't seen a bird fall over from it yet.
SPEAKER_01No, no, okay. You know, I didn't make this up. This this is before my time, but you know, I've been practicing this now for well over 25 years. Um, here's the thing we know that a chicken's digestive tract functions at a higher level when it's slightly acidic. Okay, so now before people start getting crazy and just doing this, I would also tell you to go get some pH strips, test strips. You can get them at any Walmart, pool supply, whatever. Okay. Test your water, see where your pH is. Okay, then add one ounce of apple cider vinegar, two ounces apple cider vinegar, check that water. We're looking for about a six pH, okay, is kind of that ideal range. We can be a little bit under, we can be a little bit over, but ideal range for great digestion and gut health. A six pH is a really good number for a poultry digestive tract. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Now, correct me if I'm wrong. By having that proper pH in there, we're not killing the bad bacteria, but we're creating an environment where the good bacteria that's healthy for your bird's digestion is are able to propagate, thus leaving less room for the bad guys to grow.
SPEAKER_01Is that exactly right? You said that as good as anybody could say, you're 100%. You're right on the money.
SPEAKER_00Look at me.
Losses Necropsy And Fatty Liver
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yep. Yeah, you've been listening to the right people somehow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, yeah, yes, yes, I have. Okay, we're getting close to wrapping things up, but you have been just amazing. But there's something that it's a difficult subject, but especially for that new chicken keeper out there, you have the inevitable that's going to happen. You're going to lose birds. Two years ago, and and this is this is just me. Uh I had a bird that that was that was beyond hope. We don't, I I unfortunately I don't have any kind of veterinary service around here that that handles birds at all, especially not poultry. So I ended up euthanizing her. And I came back in the house and my wife hugged me and I had tears in my eyes. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm doing this crap. When I was a boy, we we butchered chickens and we ate them, and now look at me, you know, I'm I'm having a problem because I'm losing one of my birds. We get attached to them. We're back to that, you know. Gee, chickens are starting to become a pet as much as they are a livestock. So we have to deal with this inevitably. You're going to lose an animal.
SPEAKER_01That's 100% right. Um, I just wish more people, and this is hard to do, okay. I get it. But if you feel like you have a health issue, okay, so an occasional bird that's that's winding down or dying, okay, that's part of nature. Now, if you start to see where you're having a series of birds with the same symptoms, um, you know, it's people need to learn to do a necropsy, okay. And I know it's kind of hard to do a post-mortem, basically, is what we're talking about, right? It it's not my favorite thing either. But if you want to know why what's happening so that you can prevent it in the rest of your flock, it's you're it's an important procedure. And there's plenty of videos on YouTube about pull you know, doing a chicken necropsy. Okay. Um, get a better one, you know, that's done, been done by like a university professor or something like that, not just you know, somebody on their tailgate kind of thing. Um, but you know, opening those birds up and taking a look at you know, what are the lungs look like? Like what you know, um, and and you know, there's people out there that can help you, right? So i if you're willing to do the necropsy and take photographs along the way, look, I have a lot of people send me photographs of necropsies, right? You know, they wanted to know why their bird died, and they're doing this to preserve their other birds from the same fate, right?
SPEAKER_00I remember you once told someone if you have a bird that you find dead, don't touch it. Take pictures of that bird just the way it lies and send you the picture.
SPEAKER_01Right. Because the position Yeah, the position or the posturing of the bird in the position that it died is like the first clue of what we're gonna look for for what may have. Like whenever you find a chicken upside down on its back, rank feet in the air, dead, it died of a heart attack. Okay. So we know that, right? So now if you did that necropsy and you go in there, I think our internet has paused again lost its texture, and you know, so a heart should be really firm. Um, you know, and people should know, you know, what a good heart looks like. And but in all honesty, most of the people that send me pictures of necropsi, the majority have killed their birds with kindness from too many treats.
SPEAKER_00Unfortunately, so right.
SPEAKER_01There's a huge amount of fat in there, and a lot of backyard chickens die from fatty liver disease, okay, prematurely because people love their chickens and they love to feed them. Right. They love them to death, and that's the truth. So um, yeah, I mean, there's things you can do for enrichment that uh are not gonna hurt them, you know, like hanging uh some alfalfa hay. Like if you can get small square bales of alfalfa hay at your local farm store, right? Figure out a way to put that in a bag, like a horse hay bag or something, hang it up in your chicken coop, you know, through the winter when there's no grass for them to go free range on or something like that. Um, you know, that's an excellent enrichment. We're not gonna make them fat. We're not gonna kill them by letting them, you know, peck at some alfalfa hay. But, you know, anytime, you know, I yellow is kind of the killer for chickens. You know, think about corn, even your meal worms, you know, um, you know, things that are high carbohydrate, high fat.
SPEAKER_00Um everything your wife tells you you can't eat. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Everything your wife tells you you shouldn't eat. Yeah, exactly. Right. No popcorn for you. Yeah. But yeah.
Best Resources And Groups To Trust
SPEAKER_00Jeff, I gotta tell you, it has been amazing just just getting the information out of you today. It is so wonderful that you do this so freely for so many people, not just here at the Chickens Everyday podcast. How can folks find more information about you and get to listen to more of your podcast and videos?
SPEAKER_01Well, most of the podcasts are going to be out for for your listening group. Most of the podcasts are gonna be on Poultry Keepers 360, right? Um, and they can go to YouTube. There's three years of our worth of Poultry Keepers 360 out there. We've covered just about every topic you can imagine. Um that's the best place to go. You know, if people really want to dig deep or have a pocket reference, uh, I do have a book out there, Niche Poultry, Feeding and Management. That's available. You can get it at the Fortrol website on there on our buy online. Now that copy is a heavier weight paper, glossy, colored pictures. Okay. Uh, you can also get it on Amazon for a lot less money, but the paper quality is not quite the same, right? The pictures are not in color, you know, it's a black and white print only, but you know, you can save about half the money. Um, you know, if you call into the office to order it here for Trello, you can ask the lovely lady Danielle, who answers the phone, if you can get a signed copy, right? And I'm happy to do that. It doesn't cost extra, even, right? She'll just bring you over a book, I'll sign it for you. Um, so you know, that book's been around for a while. It talks about everything from like chick feed, chick management, layers, growing stages, right? Um, you know, even up to how to make your own feed, right? So it talks about different grain components and nutrition and things like that. Um that seems to be a thing. Uh people are starting to take more control over what they're feeding their chickens and they're buying, yeah, and they're buying the components. You can get a small cement mixer at Harbor Freight, right? And you can mix it all in your garage, you know, every Saturday morning you can make your chicken feed, and you're in charge of what's going into their diet, right? You know, right? And so you can't blame the feed man for killing your chicken anymore. So it's on you. It's on you. Yeah. So it's yeah, it's I don't know. Yeah. There's a lot of resources out there, but there's a lot of bad resources out there.
SPEAKER_00So be careful of your Facebook groups.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Be very careful of your Facebook groups. And sometimes you now there's a Facebook group that you're on that you'll comment on. Uh, I don't remember the name of it, but I I'd I subscribe to it. But so many of them out there are just no, you do that, you're gonna kill your birds. Period. Leave it alone, do it like this. Be careful about some of these guys because everybody's an expert now.
SPEAKER_01I you know, I was in backyard poultry for a little while uh or backyard chicken BYC. Um, I was only in there for two days till the insanity just I had to leave the group, right? And and they were so dogmatic that they were right because somebody else said it. Okay. Um and there was no open-mindedness there for anybody to learn anything. So that's the thing. I just yeah, I just my groups are so you know, I'm on Poultry Keepers 360 um and Facebook group, and I also have my own, which is Poultry Breeder Nutrition, okay. And those two sites now. Just so everybody knows, this isn't about you posting a picture of your favorite chicken. These are these are educational, right? These aren't chicken hugger groups, okay. That's not what they're there for. Okay. Now, if you want to learn about poultry nutrition at a higher level, join. Okay. If you want to ask questions about poultry nutrition, join. Okay. Um, or if you want to learn how to better manage chickens, join Poultry Keepers 360. Okay. But we we do not put up with people who are holding a chicken. Oh, look at my favorite chicken. That that that that dog don't that dog don't hunt on those groups, okay?
SPEAKER_00We're we're looking at my Lulu.
Closing Thanks And Next Time
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. We're we're happy to have you, but just know that you know that's not what the sites are into. They are there for education only, okay? They're not they're not there for entertainment value. Um so, but you know, it's open to everybody. Just wonderful. Sign up and join. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, Jeff, thank you again so much. It was absolutely amazing. I am going to go ahead and make a reservation right now that we're going to do this again. We'll find a new subject to talk about. It's been a pure joy to chat with you. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me. See you later.
SPEAKER_00Wow. What a great interview with Jeff Maddox. His knowledge and expertise is just amazing. And I so appreciate uh how you feel free to give this to everyone. Uh look, if you saw the very first go in north of beginning, uh Jeff wants to come back to me to do a live.
