Sarah A. Parker | Author Interview

Buckle up, romantasy lovers! Today on Shadow and Starlight, we’re joined by none other than Sarah A. Parker, the New York Times bestselling author and brilliant mind behind When the Moon Hatched. We deep-dive into the intricate lore, politics, romance, and character inspirations of her latest book and first in the Moonfall Trilogy. 🐉✨ Whether you’re a longtime fan of Sarah’s work or just discovering her books, this episode is packed with juicy insights, laughter, and possibly a few conspiracies.

In this episode, we chat about:
 🔥 The inspiration behind When the Moon Hatched and its unique blend of sci-fi, fantasy, and romance
👀 The deep-rooted lore, from dragons to celestial forces, and how Sarah crafted such an immersive world
💔 Thematic explorations of trauma, revenge vs. redemption, and those emotionally gutting character arcs
🎭 The untapped rage of Raeve, the fierce journey of Veya, and why Kaan has us in a chokehold
🖊️ Sarah’s writing process, her biggest challenges, and the moments that took even her by surprise
📖 A few very intriguing teases about The Ballad of Falling Dragons 👀

• Intro Music by Boomer
• Logo by @reeseplantedesign 
• Follow us on TikTok and Instagram @shadowandstarlightpod, watch us on YouTube, and listen to us wherever you get your podcasts!
• Business email: shadowandstarlightpod@gmail.com

Transcript

0:24

Welcome wonderful listeners to the Shadow and Starlight podcast where two friends deep dive into popular romance ebooks. We get into the stories, characters, world building, lore, and so much more. I'm Kinsey. I'm Kena. I'm Sarah., We have a very special guest today. Let's all welcome Sarah A. Parker, author of When the Moon Hatched. We are so thrilled to have you. Thank you for being here today. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is so unreal for us. First time interviewing a New York Times. Best selling author. And also it's the first time we're interviewing someone whose book we've actually covered on this podcast. So really excited about that part. We have some listeners I know that have been waiting and ready to hear from you. So it's finally here. We're so excited. I'm so excited. Yes So after our intro we do a little thing we call drink of the pod. So I don't know if you're Drinking anything, but we always share with our listeners. No, I don't even have it. Well, I've got a bubbly today, but that's it. Oh my, I love bubblies, they're my favorite. Yes, they're good. I'm drinking a strawberry cheesecake milkshake. I am drinking ear. I usually have tea on me, so let's just pretend. Yeah, you're drinking mead, like, Raid. Yeah. Look, I'm spitting right now. Awesome. Well, first we want to dig into the questions and really get to know you. So Kenzie, I'll let you kick us off with the questions. All right. So first question, can you tell us a little bit about your background and journey to becoming a writer? And when did you know that you wanted to create real and tell stories? Cool. So I've been telling stories at least to myself since I was really little, the way I kind of get sleep at night is by dropping myself into a make believe world. And I, every single night I pick up where I left off the night before or the last spot I can remember finishing off anyway. So I, I tell stories to myself all the time. It's the way I get to sleep. and so I think that that transition into actually. Doing it, you know, as a, as a career was quite smooth for me. but in saying that I, I, I never went to, you know, I never went to, to a particular college to learn to write or anything like that. I, I actually started off doing, fashion design and, um, I thought that that would be the direction I would go. I went over to Italy on a design scholarship and, after, um, college that we call it in New Zealand, cause I'm from New Zealand. I went to, you know, uh, I guess polytech and was learning to, you know, to clothing design. and after having my own little business in clothing design, I, and after having a few children, I kind of realized that I was at a bit of a crossroads and it wasn't. I think giving me the spark that I was craving, I was constantly still every day, despite the fact that I was designing and doing what, you know, what I loved and what I still love. I was still feeling this urge to create and it wasn't itched, so to speak. I was still going to bed every night and writing these stories in my head and, and telling these stories to myself. So that first year that I actually decided, you know, look, I'm going to try and get these on paper and see how, see, see how we go. I'm just going to try and get these stories down. And that first year I didn't tell anybody that I was writing apart from my partner. and I just gave it a crack, I guess. And I read as much as I possibly could. And I taught myself as much as I possibly could. and that year was the first year I think that I've felt completely, truly. Satisfied every single day with what I was doing. And I didn't have this urge to, to, to reach in any other direction, to paint, to draw anything else, which is, which I love all aspects of creativity, but I was completely satisfied. And then I, that's, I think how I realized that this was it. This is what I'm meant to be doing. Yeah, so that, I think that transition was really natural for me, it was, it was just always meant to be and I'm just so happy that I, I guess, took that risk, because it was a risk, you know, I was doing something that I was, you know, doing well at, But I wasn't right for me and I just listened to my gut and I gave it a shot and here we are. That's awesome. for listening to my stories. Wow, that's awesome. You did design for a little bit. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, I've still got a taste for it. I've still got all the, you know, a lot of bits and pieces and stuff, uh, you know, all scattered around the house of things that I've, you know, done, but, Yeah, writing's my, my thing, it's definitely my thing, but to be fair, that has I think helped me in my writing as well, because it's, you know, you're very much designing when you're creating a world too, so it's all sort of little jigsaw puzzle pieces that are built into what I do now. Yeah, I can definitely see how your love for design infiltrated when the moon hatched because man, it is like a masterpiece and world building like just yeah Awesome. Yeah, so we know a lot of authors tend to be influenced by their personal experiences kind of like design Like we were just talking about an interest. So What are some things maybe outside of design that inspire you outside of writing? I've always been quite, I think, in touch with like nature and, and when I, I brought, I was brought up on a farm, you know, every, Literally, I'd get home from school, I'd run up a massive, massive, uh, driveway and have a snack, and then off I'd go and I'd toddle off around, around the farm and, you know, kind of just be with the animals, make up stories in my head, just, just be one with nature, I guess. And I think that, that lust for, you know, listening, I think, to, you know, to the world around me has really fed into the stories that I like to write. But also, so around about that same time in my life, my Nana, she lived next door to us on a little granny flat that we had lifted onto our property. And so I would go over there and, and sit with her and, you know, she'd do some baking or bake with her and, but she had this, this, um, And it was stacked full of fairy books. I've got them right there. and I would sit there and I would just flick through these fairy books and, be taken to different worlds and all around as well. And I've got some of them sitting over there as well. She had little fairies and little, you know, just little magical bits and pieces, folklore, little gnomes like made out of moss and stuff. It was just like this magical world. And I feel like that. Really spoke to my soul, it felt, you know, it, that was kind of the essence of what I think now what I put into my stories is, that piece I found in that little house with my Nana, is I kind of go to that, sorry this is going to make me cry, um, I go to that point in my head at least whenever I'm writing and, and, Yeah, it kind of takes me back to her, which is, I thought, yeah, it's, well, I don't know if that answers the question. I love that writing, like, holds a special place in your heart from childhood though, like it makes it so much more special and like closer to home. Yeah, that's really cool and special connection. I can already tell how much you love your Nana. Yeah, I wouldn't be. I think writing the stories that I write was enough for her and her influence on me. Actually, the interesting thing is, when I finished writing Moon, we had lost her by then. And I, after, after I finished writing that very last word and, um, I wouldn't want to say it for anyone who hasn't read it, but I mean, you both know that word. Transcript by https: otter. ai Um, I went and hopped in the shower and I just crumbled down and I just cried for like half an hour. And the main reason I was crying was I think I knew that I felt like I'd just written my soul book. And I was just so heartbroken that she wasn't going to be able to read it because it was so much of her. Woven through those chapters and, um, yeah, anyway, sorry. We're trying by the second question. Well, thank you for sharing that. It's really touching to hear how personal the book was to you and that experience. So it's cool to hear. Yeah. Yep. All right. so I heard you earlier mentioned that you had kids and they were at school. So with your everyday life, how do you balance your writing with being a mother and a wife? And do you have any specific routines or habits that help you stay creative and productive? Oh, Balance. Balance is hard. Um, so prior with my previous series, when I was two books in, I learned very quickly that I wasn't balancing very well. because it got to a couple of months out of when I was needing to, actually it was three months, um, when I was needing to get that book. You know, um, uploaded and I, I very quickly realized that I, despite have had the fact that I'd had a year with it, and been working every single day, I just, I, I still needed to give it a hell of a lot more time to get it to that point that I was happy with it. and I was also a primary caregiver of three kids while, just, you know, full time working as well and building these worlds in my head. It was after STEM, was it? No, it was after FLAME. So, I, I didn't leave the house for three months, literally. I didn't leave the house for three months, nonstop. Josh started working home two days a week. his, his mom ended up coming, um, to our house the other three days to help with the kids. And I think it was three days after I finished STEM, I went outside the house, outside the front door for the first time in three months. So I was, I was living on the couch. I was, I was drinking like 10 just straight black coffees a day, just keeping myself going. I was napping. I wasn't sleeping. I was napping like in half hour increments for it. You know, every now and again, it was bad. Um I then got flame out because I, I, I think it only took me six months cause it was the second half of STEM, the same situation, I guess, as it was with Moon where I had to kind of split it. Um, but so I got that one out and then Josh and I sat down and he said, look, you're not coping. I said, no, I'm not. I'm not coping. I'm juggling too much. And you know, and I was definitely not looking after myself. And so he decided to give up his career to come home and, um, to be the primary caregiver of our kids. And the next book that I was supposed to write was actually was Crystal Bloom 4. Um, but. I, there was this, I think this huge weight lifted off my shoulders and I was like, no, I need to write this other story that's been in my mind for the past few years. I've got to get this off my shoulders now. This is, this feels right. This time feels right. Um, and I didn't give myself a deadline. and that was number one thing that was, I think most important for me is I gave that story that's room to breathe. and I think in doing that, I also set myself these tasks each day. So I'll be all right, right, right. Two really rough chapters a day and, and think about the next one. Um, on my head or the next tool in my head, you know, go over the, go over my plan and make sure I've got it clear in my head. so it was those simple tasks. And once I'd finished those simple tasks, I would take my hands off the computer, which is not something I'm usually good at doing and go, all right, I'm done for the day. And whereas again, with STEM, although I was writing nonstop all day, I was getting less done because I was kind of just in my head. I was like, no, I'm just gonna, I've got to keep writing. I can't stop. I've got to keep going. So I learned through that that I needed to set myself boundaries. I needed to go. All right. Um, and somehow I seem to move through this much bigger story, much faster, and, you know, I would be able to cook dinner and spend time with the family in the afternoon and just I found. A nice balance to be, and it kind of allowed me to stretch my wings a bit. It's been a little bit different with, ballad, because I have been, um, juggling a bunch of other bits and pieces as well. Um, like just, I had a tour, um, that was quite big in the U S and UK. and. You know, that there was a bit of burnout that I experienced after that. So there's been, other bits and pieces that I have been juggling. but I've still kept things the same. I'm still, these are my tasks every single day. And, um it really does help me. My problem is too much. I go, no, I, I want to do everything. I'm going to do everything. I'm going to not stop until I'm not going to sleep is not my priority. Living is not my priority. Communication is not my priority. Just my work is my priority. And then I burn myself out. So I have learned very quickly that I have to set myself down very slowly. I'm exactly the same way. It's not fun. Why? You crash and plummet and you're like, huh? What happened? Yeah. It's like the opposite for me. I'll like tell myself I need to do something and I never find the time to do it. So it's like Riding would be a possible right now, even less than you do right now. That's really cool that Josh, was willing to give up his career so that you could really take a lead on writing. That's just like, so amazing to hear and I'm curious, was Khan inspired by Josh at all? You know, the interesting thing is, so I did actually try and write Moon twice prior to the time that I actually wrote it and gave it that room to breathe. Um, and it was while I was working on other stories, I was just tapping away silently at this other one on the side as well, because it was always kind of just picking at me. And, both times that I tried, I hit a roadblock and I couldn't figure out what was going wrong, why the story wasn't unfolding for me. and why I wasn't able to get to some, a planner, why I wasn't able to get to the certain parts in the story that I was trying to get to. And I think that it's because at that time in my life, there was something missing from my Jake's full puzzle. So it's like, and it's like once Josh to, um, you need help. I'm here. Like, tell me what you need. that kind of lit something inside of me and suddenly I could see Khan so much clearer and, and he actually came out different that third time then he had the first two prior times I'd written him. he was a completely different character. all the docs, I plan everything. I plan dialogue, everything. Right. So it was all just suddenly I was. I was like riding this horse and it was just going, I was like, all right, okay, I wasn't leading the horse. It was the other way around. Um, so yeah, I do think that shift, uh, definitely helped to, shape Khan into who he is. As soon as I heard you say that about Josh, I was like, it just reminded me of Khan because I think he places Rave above everyone else and it's like her biggest cheerleader. And that's part of why I'm like slightly in love with him, but that's really cool. That when. That happened in your life, really just like kicked off your story. That's cool. Sometimes you just need those moments of clarity. Yeah. Well, speaking of con, I think we should get into when the moon hatched now. So first, I just want to talk a little bit about the world building and lore. Cause I was by far, one of my favorite parts of it is the world building was so intricate and immersive and the descriptions oh my gosh, I mean, I was just reading it and I was like blown away just how vividly I can visualize it in my head based off of the writing that you're giving us. So definitely one of my favorite parts of the book. Took me a while, my first read to like understand what the heck was going on. But now that I do, I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. But I was just curious what the inspiration was behind creating such a vast and detailed world. How long did it maybe take you to develop and, sorry, this is like a three parter question. Did you pull any inspiration from any certain cultures or mythological tales? No, the interesting thing is when I'm writing, I'm always trying to escape. I'm, I'm, I'm escaping reality. I'm like, get me out of here. So I definitely, I, I didn't purposely in any way, shape or form purposefully pull from anything else. I'm always trying to create something completely different. So this, so this story, I mean, it was three years in the making. I mean, literally I, from when I first pictured this world that doesn't spin and, and those dragon moons, like it was, it was three years of me building the building blocks of this story and walking through the world as if I'm in a. video game. so I would in my stolen moments while I was between, you know, when I'd be going to sleep, and I was writing again at that time, the Crystal Bloom series. but in the evenings or while I was driving, I was in this other world and I was walking those streets. I was, I was learning about the law. I was, I was learning about the magic system. I was, I was working my way through things. And so for me, when I actually sat down and put me into paper, That third and final time what I did actually first before I wrote that for that before I started at that third and final times I sat down for a month and I got everything down onto a document. So I've got this huge document That's got all the law. It's got all these different titles and everything, you know, everything's written under it so I know exactly what I knew exactly from that point on with what I was coloring with it and So that, then once I had that down, and then I, I, then I started writing chapter one and, well actually the prologue, it was all so solidified for me. I knew exactly, I, I knew the world, like I knew the world as if, as if I'm living in this world, so, yeah, it certainly didn't come, You know, it wasn't something that snapped into existence overnight. I've been building it quietly, for a long time now. And, you know, but it needed that time and need that time. I think it's, you know, and there were, there is always as well. I think that, you know, that urge to. Because I had spent so much time in this world and I had so much that I felt like I needed to give the reader, there was such a fine balance when I was writing those first number of chapters, because I didn't want to overwhelm the reader. You know, this is a very big, rich, complex fantasy world, and I'm very aware that that is It's quite hard to swallow when we're used to living in this world. So you know, I, I went through a number of reiterations with those first chapters trying to, I guess, tame it down enough so that it is more palatable because I'm, again, very aware that it's a lot to swallow the first round, you know, and the second read it's easier because everything's a little bit clearer. but yeah, it's, it's big and I mean, it took me three, three years to, you know, to, to build it up. So it's like expecting it to be understood in my first read through is, is a lot, but, yeah, hopefully, uh, it's, you know, I, I, it, hopefully it's not, I guess, um, so overwhelming that it's hard to swallow the story. You know, I think that was the main things that I had to go back and do is connect us with Rave earlier on, because originally when I was shaping the story, it was, I was definitely over. Flowy, like packing too much in and not connecting us with Rave right off the get go. So that was one of the things I went back and did was tried to make sure that we at least had somebody to follow through And that, rather than, you know, getting tossed around the world like a, like a parking lot. You did do a great job as far as that goes, like connecting us to Rave and getting us interested in her. That helped me cause like the world building piece of it, like the magic system and the creators. I was like, I don't really know what's happening, but I'm just going to assume I'll figure it out later. And then I met Rave, I met Rave and I was like, she is so sassy and crazy. And then Khan entered the story. I was like, who is that? So I was hooked immediately, even though I was confused. Sorry. of Rave really kind of helped it not be as like, me as a reader, like it helped me not be so focused on like trying to focus on the world building and the magic and it was like giving me another side adventure like, yeah, I'm still learning the world, learning the magic, but at the same time, like what's going on with Rave? Like what's the secret? What's the mystery? I want to know. Yeah. You know, it's interesting too, because as you would have noticed, there's a huge glossary for the story. And so when I got to the point where I was publishing, I was like, Hmm. Do I, I didn't know whether to put it at the front or the back. I knew it needed to be in the story because I think it's important to, you know, have that list of terms and like a, like an easy flick back. but I didn't know whether to put it at the start or the end. And because I didn't want to A, overwhelm, but B, I wanted people to know that it was there. I decided, At the end of it all to go, right, I'm going to pop it at the, at the front, because if I have it at the end, then people might flick back and see the family tree, which obviously. Oh, yeah. It gives away a little bit. Yeah, exactly. So I'm very aware that, you know, some people might pick up the story and go, Oh my God, this glossary is so huge. Like, I don't know if I want to be able to swallow, I want to swallow this world. But I hope, I hope that, you know, I, when I had that better reading stage, I had my readers, some of them read it, read glossary first and then read the story and some of them not read the glossary and see if they could still kind of at least follow along the story a bit. So, Because I just I knew it just needed to be at the start of it at the start of that stage. Yeah, and so hopefully, hopefully it's uh, you know able to be understood despite the glossary or with the glossary. I think either way, I think I read maybe like half the glossary and I was like, you know what I'll come back later. Oh, yeah, I kind of skimmed it. I was like, let me just make myself familiar with some terms and then as I was Like reading the book and I'll pop up on a term I've never heard before. Then I would go back and look at the glossary. So like that, it helped have a reference. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I think every fantasy book should have a glossary, but I also run down of like, of what happened in the previous stories. And you're like, just in case, you know, cause we, we consume so many books, you know, so. Yeah, a nice recap. Be nice. Yes, very. That would be amazing. But yes, speaking of the glossary and just like how complex your world is, how was it developing the magic system and when then we hatched and what was the most challenging aspect of creating one that feels both unique and consistent within the world? Yes, the interesting thing about the magic system is I have been when I, I spoke to you guys prior to this about, or I'm not sure if we were recording at that time, but we spoke about, when I was younger and I was. Um, and I was developing these stories in my head. So one in particular story is something that I've been, I've been developing for years. I've just been wandering through this world for years. And I, that first year of my, of my teaching myself to write, I started getting this story down. And, this one particular story that I will always keep coming back to. and. It's like, I mean, you know, that was learning. So it's, it's, you know, it was needs a lot of work, uh, or needed a lot of work. But, so I've kind of picked it at like a carcass since then. Um, because you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a good story, but it's like, it's also There's so many issues, right? Cause you know, I was learning, I was learning. Um, and I was just really just getting things down and trying to get in the feel for things. But the interesting thing is I picked it at a couple of things that I put into my Crystal Bloom series and then, and it's almost like my soul story, you know, the, the, the roots of everything that make me, me, it's gone into this very mushed up, like messy story. but one particular thing in that was, was this, this magic system. And, it wasn't. Similar, it wasn't similar, but it wasn't the same as what I've, what I've gotten moon. but it had similar aspects whereas the, the gods or goddesses in this, in this world, you know, with the elements and they, they had personality and, and presented differently. And this would presents differently in this other, I guess, skeleton of that I've got there. but I, I think all that comes from and that, that wants to want to create these, you know, these. These beings that are, you know, these, these elements that have their personality comes from my childhood comes from wandering around on the farm. And, you know, and, and feeling like the wind was my friend feeling and that she was playing with me, feeling like when it rains, like the sky was crying and feel like they dipped in the dollops in the ground as I was walking through, like feeling like that was, that was the grounds personality. It was, it was, it was, you know, it was sometimes it was sloshy and, and, and, you know, feeling like a certain. Certain why sometimes it was hard and rough and sometimes it was stony and, you know, you can fall against and break yourself against it. so I think that it's just always been. Part of, part of, part of me and something that I've always wanted to tell and put into a story. when I was building Moon in my head those, you know, previous years before I actually started writing it, I was like, ah, this is where this is meant to be. So, and then I, and then I heard Claude's, like, voice, internal voice in my head, and I was like, oh yeah, here we go, okay, Claude, you crazy bitch. One of my favorite lines. Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. I love learning about how personal this story and the world and everything is. I feel like it makes me want to like reread it again, even though I just finished. I love that it's like not inspired by one specific thing. Like it's literally just your imagination. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a paperwork of my life, I guess, coming into shape. So, okay, next I want to talk a little bit about the politics. So this is usually one of my favorite parts of fantasy books is like the political intrigue parts. Kenzie's like the romance girly and I'm like the politics girly, but this is why we're a good team. So obviously the political dynamics played a huge part in When the Moon Hatched. So what inspired the political structure and the climate of this world when you were creating it? The funny thing is in real life, I stay as far away from politics as I possibly can. Like I'm, I'm always hiding from that stuff. Right. Like, like, like to the extent where I, I don't follow any news on my, on my Facebook or anything like I am like, get me away, get me out of here. Yeah. And I think one of those reasons, I think having this kind of growing up, I was always, how do I explain this? So hard for me to get this into words. Having this almost expectation or these people that kind of were overseeing and saying, you know, what you, uh, what you are capable of or what you, or the most saying what, what your limitations are and, and telling you almost how to live your life or saying, Oh no, you can't do that. That's not for you. Or, you know, I've always kind of. I don't, I, I've always felt like, well, I want to sow my own path. Right. and I don't want to be. I guess, told what I can and cannot do. I'm talking creativity wise and stuff, like as I was, you know, in my art classes and stuff, and just as I was growing up, as I was finding out who I was as a person, as I was trying to, you know, plod my way in the world. And I think being told how You know, being told how I should live my life and what I should do with my body and, and all those different things. It's always felt very abrasive to me. And I've just shied away from it and hidden, I guess, from the world of my stories. so I think it's, it's kind of been natural that in this world, the politics of it has come out in a shape that's like, well, you know, there is a rise up against that. Cause that's very much, you know, I think it's kind of. What I hide from coming out and in that political side, but very in the same vein, so the whole backstory and everything of this story was written before I put paint paper. So I, you know, I've got all the history of this world, everything. And I've also. I find it very interesting in our world where there are these people that, you know, always bite off more than they can chew. They always think, again, that everyone, that they know what's best for everybody else and that just doesn't gel well with me. So that, I think, is probably a common theme in a lot of my stories because I just, No matter what I do, it seems to come up because it's never felt right to me. so yeah, I, again, I'm not a particularly political person, but I think, there's certainly things that I, grade against and that just don't, that I don't like. And that is one of them. Is that, that feeling that, yeah, that other people, you know, feel like they can tell us what to do with ourselves and where we fit in society and stuff. So, The non conformist in you inspired the politics. Yeah, I love it. That's who I am too. I, yeah, I am super into politics. Unfortunately, it's what, what I'm interested in. I ended up studying it in college or whatever and. He over here in America, it's kind of a, you know, it's a shit show right now. I'm like reading fantasy books where the FMCs like rise up against the tyrannical government. It's just, it's like cathartic for me. That's why I love it so much. Yep. Yep. I like, uh, I release a lot of female rage in my characters and it just feels so good. That's why I'm obsessed with them. It's the opposite for me. I've run from politics. It confuses me so bad and I just don't know, it's so much going on. So like, I'm reading like fantasy books that has policies. I'm like, Oh, this is cool. But like, what about the romance? Like, let's get back to that. She's like standing in front of the chancellor, like waiting for her, like death sentence, but I'm like, okay, wait, when did she kiss the guy first? Yeah, I'm like, I think why moon is such this, it's kind of this blend of this, like, like she's rising up and, and, you know, she'll, she'll be, no, I'm deep in book two. Um, there's this, you know, there's this, you know, there's female character that's, you know, finding her worth and finding her strength and, you know, and it's, against that sort of overarching. It's for me, but we'll also, while also with the romance walking hand in hand, again, like that's where I escape when I'm reading. So it's, yeah, it is funny. It's, it certainly wasn't purposeful. Like I'm, I don't go in there. I'm not like, Oh, I'm going to write a story with this, with that, with that, with that, you know, it's, it's, I, I write, I sit down, I put pen to paper and I go. So it's always interesting to see what comes out of me because I'm not going in there with a formula. I'm not like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to have feminine rage. I'm going to have this, that, the other. Yeah. It's. It's like the characters end up telling me what they want to write. So it's, it's always very interesting to me to see what sort of comes out. Yeah. I'm along for the ride as much as you guys are. Okay. Really quick question. This kind of off topic, what we're going through now, who was your favorite character to write? Oh, look, I've got to admit, I, so I could write rave forever. I really could. And I think the reason is because she deals with emotions very much in the same way that I do. Like I, I stuff everything down. I'm like, you know, I'm just not going to look at it. I'm just going to charge forward. You know, I wake up every day and I'm like, what am I dealing with today? What, what messy thing is coming at me today? So I feel like the way that she. A text thing as she goes about things is very, very in line with, with me. so I just find it easy. I find it very, very easy. And saying that though, there is a character that I'm writing. in book two, um, that's a certain POV character. We get an extra couple of extra POVs in book two, and I really enjoyed writing him. And I think it's because he's a bit of comic relief and, um, despite some of the heavy stuff going on, And, yeah, so, I mean, you guys know it's Pyrox. Yeah, I was about to say, I'm like, is it Pyrox? Yeah. So it's been really cool getting into his head and it's, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. I cannot wait. Yeah. Kena always, like, yep, I already know what you're about to say. Kena usually migrates more towards the, like, Comedian of the character. She loves the comedic relief. Yes. Kenzie's like the shadow daddy, like the really dark people. And then I, like the con, like the protective, like the man bun gets me every time. And the funny people. I'm like, those, those are my men. Oh my goodness. Okay. I think there's still a lot of politics. Oh, it's my turn. I always forget when it's my turn. Yeah. So, yeah, on the topic of politics and, like, power. So, one of the things that stood out in When the Moon Hatch was the power structure and how it's so tightly woven into the character's personal journeys. How do you create a balance between this and keeping the focus on a more character personal driven plot? I don't, so we don't walk into a room and start meeting a bunch of people. I'm not going, oh, I wonder what they do with it. I'm not wondering what they do. You know, I'm not determined. I'm not, I'm not getting a sense of their character based on, you know, on what they do with their lives or I, Make eye contact and you'll notice this when I'm, you know, when I'm, when I'm in a group room with people, I, I'm, I lock in and I, you know, I like to get to know their soul. I like to get to know what makes them tick. I like to know the shape of their soul. it's the same for me when I'm writing a character, I am, I'm shaping them from the roots up. So if a character is completely defined by the power, by what they can bring to the table, I know I haven't done my job right. Because that's not real life. You know, we've all got these different facets. We're all shaped by. You know, the nooks and crannies by, uh, by the, by our wounds, by our scars. and, uh, you know, so when I am developing a character, I'm not like, okay, this person is, brings this to the table. I'm like, okay, what was their upbringing? Like, you know, what, what, what hurts have they got? I literally shaped them from the ground up. And that's one of the things I sat down and did. Month prior to putting pen to paper that third and final time as I sketched out the backgrounds for my characters completely so I knew what made them tick and and again Sometimes a character will come along and it might not have been in my plan and it's a side character I'm like, oh, you know, that's actually happened in the book too. There's somebody that's come along and i'm like, okay I didn't I didn't wasn't expecting you and i'll always bang out a first draft, but then I sit with it I push it to the side and I go All right. Now I need to actually do the work and I need to work out what And then I'll go through and I'll rewrite the whole chapter completely because again, I don't want, I never want a character to be determined by what they bring to the table. I want us to know them. I want to get to know them. Otherwise, for me, it's sort of like, what's the point, you know, that extra dimension comes with, you know, getting like looking in their eyes and sort of getting in touch with their soul and, and quite often that's got nothing to do with, you know, with their powers or with their, you know, with their lack of it. There's a lot more there and I think it helps me to give the characters that extra dimension. Yeah, well, you did a great job with that for sure. I mean, with Rave being who she was in The Shade and then she's a powerful assassin and then Kahn being the King of the Burn, like they were both so multifaceted. You can definitely tell that you were focusing on their character plots and loved them. Okay, so next I want to talk about some themes of When the Moon Hatched. So I think Trauma and healing are very central themes in book one. I'm sure that'll probably carry over into book two because girls got a lot of trauma. I mean, everyone's kind of got a lot of trauma. So what was your process for portraying this emotional depth of the character's healing journeys? And I wanted to know particularly with Rave, because I think she might be the most traumatized. Yeah, there's a lot there. again, I'm very much, I don't, I don't, I, even though I'm a planner and I, and I know, I plan the things that are happening in the story, like the, you know, the big plot beats. So I plan, for instance, um, when I was playing book one, there were certain scenes that I was working towards and those first two times I tried to write it because I wasn't going, I couldn't see myself hitting those scenes in the way that I wanted to emotionally. I stopped and, you know, started again, scrapped and whatnot. but so there are certain moments. So for instance, book one, um, when Khan shows. Right. Something he's been working on. That was one of those moments. Um, the moment when brave is, Tied to something and certain things come to the grabber. That was another one. That very last thing where something comes in and there's that final word. That was another one. So there's certain moments that I'm, that I'm working towards. Right. But through that. I don't pre plan the emotional journey. I know what I'm working towards physically, but I don't pre plan how the character is going to move through the trauma and through the damage and, and the growth journey. Like I, I know what the wounds are, I know what they're working against, but I trust myself to work through that. That, that stuff, that emotional stuff, as I'm writing and I think that allows it to be more authentic because I'm going through it with, with her literally every single moment, every realization, every time she's forced to face something in the eye, I am doing that with her as well. So I, I feel it all very, very deeply, which I think is another one of the reasons why book two has taken me a bit longer to get through is because it's been a very heavy book and there's been a lot that has come to light for her and she's working through some really tough things and. It's so that for me is, is I like that to be as organic as possible because that's life, right? You can't pre plan someone's emotional journey. Like you go through the mess and you have setbacks and then you, you go through it in a different way and you find the light and it's, can't be pre planned, I guess. Um, I feel like you can't. You know, just expect yourself to, you know, to, I'm going to, I'm going to be over that by this part of the story, you know, sometimes that's actually not realistic, for you to go, Oh, that character is going to, going to be this version of herself by then, you know, sometimes that's just not how it works out. And sometimes actually what does happen is, is you're like, Oh, that was always meant to be that way. I, you know, so you can, you just can't, you can't pre plan. I can't anyway. I wish I could, but I, I, I much prefer to go through the emotional journey with the character and, and I feel like it comes out more organic that way. It hurts more though. I was going to say, this sounds rough for you. Book two has probably been, there's highs and lows, right? So I'm painting this out like, you know, like you're going to come out of this. You know, the second story with this completely shattered heart. Like you, you, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not saying that at all. but it's, it is a journey and, there's a lot to get through, but yeah, it's. It's, there's, there's a lot of goodness there and a lot of healing. And, um, sometimes you've got to feel the break to, to be able to, you know, you actually got to notice that there's a break there and go, Oh, actually that hurts, but then realize you got to heal it. So, yeah. I do appreciate the heads up for book two. I had a feeling it was going to be Oh, I'm sure we're probably going to be learning maybe about her Firelark experience. And that sounds like a lot, so we'll be mentally prepared by the time it comes out. Yeah, there's good stuff too. There's healing as well. I get there's, there's, there's a lot. So yeah, I'm, I love, I love Booktow. I love it. So I'm hoping that you guys feel the same. Yes, I'm sure. Also like, while we're still talking about her trauma, I love like a part of how you revealed it with the like different time zones, like her childhood or like her, like growing up and then present day. I know a lot of people aren't like a fan of like the different time zones, but I love that. Cause it just leaves space for mystery. Cause you're like getting tidbits and then you're back in present day and you're trying to like relate them back and forth. It's interesting because when I was writing, so I sat down for about a week or so and I wrote all those diary entries at once as opposed to, you know, writing them in bits and pieces and I was a mess that way. I was, I was just, I was, I was, you know, like every day, my face. Small and from crying. But I was very aware that some people struggle with, you know, with, with being whipped back to a different time. So I tried to keep them, you know, one of my main things that I need to keep them small. I don't want to over overwhelm. But I, I need, I need this to be known by the time we get to the end. Like I need this history to be there. And when I originally was working through the story, I was like, well, I've sort of thought, do I need to do like a pre story or something? You know, because there was so much information there. But then when I realized that, no, actually this was how it needed to happen. I was like, Oh, I know as a way. But I was concerned that it was going to pull the readers away from the main, you know, from the main plot too much, and, and to be jarring. So, there was a fine line between trying to figure out where these different parts of the diary entries was going to sit, so that it didn't take away too much, and hopefully so it added. To the current timeline. so it, that was very much like a labyrinth trying to work all that out and trying to fit them into the right places. And so that they, you know, embellish what we're going through at the moment. And yeah, so hopefully it worked out. Oh, yeah. I thought those were like seamless transitions for sure. And I loved it on my first read. I was like, okay. These have got to be the same person and then I would read a diary entry and I'm like, no, that doesn't work. They're not the same person and then I'll read some more. I'm like, they have to be the same person. And I would just go back and forth and back and forth. Yes, yes. Kana finished the book before me. And so like when I was reading it. I was in denial the whole time they're the same person. Cause I just thought it was like too obvious. I was like, this can't be, this is a trick. I'm like, I think I know what's, I think I know what's happening, but like, I'm scared to admit it. Cause what if I'm wrong? I hate being wrong. So I never voiced it at all. They were the same person. I'm like, I can't. My goodness. Yeah. Yeah. we went on a vacation last summer together and we were reading it and I was like further ahead in the book. than she was, and I think I was reading chapter 35. I don't know if that rings a bell right off the bat for you. But I was sitting right next to her. Yeah, I didn't know if it would. Well, it involves a certain assassin straddling a certain king. Recall? I was sitting right next to Kenzie, I was like, oh my god, enemies are about to become lovers! I remember that. Very funny. So good. Okay, which question are we on? I don't even know. Oh, it's my third. So another thing that's present in the book is revenge versus redemption. This is a big one, especially with Rave and Kahn. So what do you see as the key difference between these two motivations and what drew you to explore them in such depth? Look, I feel like Revenge and Redemption, it's all very, I actually feel like it's quite tied. So the, so Rave and Khan, they're very much on these, he's been through some stuff, right? and This period of time that we, know existed. Uh, I don't want to give away too much for those who haven't read it, but he's been through, he's been through a lot of these beats that, that Rave is actually going through currently. Um, so he knows, he knows that kind of journey, that psychological journey that she's on. So, he's very aware without her knowing it, just how much she is. And that for me has been quite a powerful thing to explore because he's, he knows the support she needs. He knows what the help, you know, he knows the help she needs, but he's kind of quietly there giving it rather than leading her. He's, he's there as a support because he knows that that's what she needs through this. She needs support. She needs, she needs a strong, sturdy barrier, strong, sturdy. Um, structure beneath her to be able to move through, you know, what, what she's going to be going through. And I think that's what, endears me so much to him is that he's not telling her how to deal with the things he's not there going, no, you have to go this way or that way. He's just there to support. And, you know, I think that's, there's been stuff that I've moved through my, in my life that, I wouldn't have been able to get through them without that study support from my husband. So, you know, it's, I think there is in a way it's kind of, at least in the story. I'm singing a song of, of that, that being very much tied. But yeah, Rave, I think, especially with some of her anger and her rage that she's got in her right now, she's got a long journey ahead of her. And, you know, she's kind of got to find, uh, the silence between the two and, Yeah, I'm, uh, again, I'm sorry you can look very far ahead. Apparently processing all those emotions, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Okay. next question. What was your favorite part of writing Khan and Rave's romance? Oh, I think, um, that's an interesting question. I think that there's, because there is this, and again, I don't want to give too much away just for people that haven't actually read the story, but, um, because there is this, Yeah, right. That's kind of the way that affects the way that Khan sees her and, and, you know, it's, it's that slow realization that she is actually a very different person now and seeing how, how these very, these people that are kind of in a lot of ways. They're just drawn to each other, no matter what, no matter who they are, no matter what they've been through. Like, they are even in this alternate reality where she is not the same person. Like, they're still drawn to each other. And I think, moving through the storyline and having this past there, and then having this, this present, and kind of seeing the way that they, they They still are so drawn to each other was for me very, just, I, I, I loved working through that, um, with them. but I will say as well though. All that aside, I think the banter, like, I, I just, I just, you know, uh, that's the way that I, I guess for me, that is, that is my romance style is banter. That's how I tell someone I love them is, is I'm bad with banter, you know, they just speak my language. Yes. The banter was top tier. Yes. I love it. One of my favorite parts, it's interesting to hear you say that, was one of your favorite parts of writing them. One of my favorite parts was, it was like getting two love stories in one book, even though it's It's technically the same people. Like the chemistry was there and both, but getting to see them get to know each other when it's like two very different people, but also the same person, so cool to see it come along and to see them still be able to connect, even though they're different the second time around. Yeah. That's where my head was at. Like she, you essentially wrote two love stories at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. It was very interesting as well, trying to make sure that that chemistry was felt through the diary entries was, you know, I was like, I don't know how I'm going to tackle this without actually making it a, like a prequel, like a, like a small story, but then I got in her head and I started writing those diary entries and I was like, actually, no, this is easy. Like they're just. It was like, there's this magnetism that just came out really, really easily. So it's, yeah, I just love writing them. I love writing them as a couple. it's exploring like their relationship and their growth has been just one of the highlights of my writing career. Honestly, it really has. Write them forever. Oh, that's cute. Awesome. Well next we want to talk about some character inspirations So I know you kind of already hit on a lot of Kahn and Rave. So our next question is about Veia. Kenzie, I'll let you take it. I was just going to ask if I was, I was going to pronounce it right, because you know me and pronunciations. Did we pronounce it right? Okay. I get so scared. But yeah, Bea brings out a lot of humor and relatability to the story. So how did you balance her larger moments with all of her trauma as well, and the narrative of her past, and what makes her such a fun character to write? I, sorry. So the interesting thing about Vea is that, so I use humor to basically, to basically move through the most difficult stages of my life. I always have, it's sort of, it is my backbone. it's kind of the way I swallow things, I guess. So, for her it came very naturally. I, I, I love writing Vea. I really do. I got in there with her and when her first chapter and I was like, I was nervous to write it because there is a lot there. again, I'm neck deep in book two. Um, um, uh, there is, yeah, there's a lot there. Like there's, she's got, uh, there's a massive backstory. And, yeah, I, I was like, gosh, this is going to be very interesting. But the moment my fingers touched the keys and I was like, oh, no, actually this is, you know, this is. It just, she just came out in this way that shocked me and I was away. So I don't, again, I don't really necessarily go in there with a plan, but I think because she's got a lot there, you know, it's like, she's just, she's developed into this character that was very easy for me to write because I, again, when there's a lot of trauma there, you just kind of, that's how I deal. I, I use humor. So. yeah, look, again, I, I don't, I don't pre plan my characters, you know, I don't go, I don't go, look, okay, it's going to be, Um, I, I think it's always important to find a tether that connects you to a character. So there's always something for me, like, even if it's a bad character, even if it's somebody who is, you know, like Rick, for instance, like I'm always, I have to, when I'm getting in someone's head, I have to go somewhere that connects me with them. And so there needs to be something, whether it be somebody I know, you know, a certain trait that they have, that draws some sort of connection that allows me to at least Um, but again, I'll always get that first draft down and then I'll go back and that's usually when the personality really comes to light and when I really get to know them as that second swipe. So, but they, I was different. She was immediately. I was like, Oh, okay, here we go. She's easy. She's easy for me. She's very easy. Right. Yeah. She's a little firecracker. I love her. So, I don't know, when she, when you were talking, Sarah, and you were talking about the humor, it kind of brought me back to when we did our coverage on When the Moon Hatched, and I was so obsessed with Spangle shit. And I like really found myself like walking around the house just saying, this is some Spangle shit. Like my favorite, my favorite thing that she was saying. I walk around the house saying the same thing, so there you go. That's awesome. I forgot about that. I'm like, uh, so I, I'm like, Oh, this day is getting this. This day is, you know, Oh, the rise has come. Oh, the, the, the falling all the slumber time. I'm like, Oh, we've got a cyclone coming towards us right now. My clothes going to be angry at us, you know, like she's whipping around. Like I, I literally, it's like. I'm living this, this world, like, even when I'm talking at the moment, I'm like, you know, it's, it's hard for me to be like people. For me, it's folk at the moment. And you know what I mean? So that's awesome. That's really fun. It's like living in your own book. Yeah, probably a bit too much, but if you were to ask my family. Okay. Well, the next question was about Khan and the inspiration behind him, but I know you kind of already went into that a little bit, so we'll skip ahead to the writing process. What was, and if you already feel like you answered this, or it'd be just a reiteration, that's fine. What was the most challenging aspect of writing this book? I, oh, I think for book one, for Moan, I think it was, Again, because I had such this huge world in my head, trying to get that across without overwhelming the reader. that was, I very quickly realized that I needed to do a prologue that kind of gives at least the background of how this world was created and how the creators like fit into it. because I knew that if I didn't do that, then there was going to be a whole lot of confusion. but the funny thing is writing the prologue was easy. it was then getting into the world and actually trying to, trying to get the basics across without overwhelming. That was, that was challenging and that did take fewer durations. I think I went back. About three times and had to revamp and cut chapters and because I did, I went, I started actually started the story, um, earlier than I previously did. It was, you know, we were in a different part of different part of core. It was. So we're down in the ditch and so I, I, yeah, I cut out literally a whole chapter and I went, okay, what are the important bits here and, you know, and it's always hard when you've got to cut things away, but it was, for me, it was important. We originally met certain characters earlier, but I changed that just to try and pellet the, uh, world building a little bit more. It's, yeah, and I think, you know, I think that's quite universal. I think that it's, that when you're trying to bring a reader into a fantasy world, I think, you know, I know that whenever I'm dipping into a whole new world, like it's, I'm struggling to, you know, to quite often to swallow it. And, so I feel like that's probably quite a common struggle that authors have is, you know, going, Oh my God, how do I get this on page without stuffing it down the reader's throats and telling them, you know, so it's like you've got to find that fine balance of, of finding a way to, to show them the world without showing it. You've got to flavor things for them and, and move through this world like it's a video game with them. And, That's a hard balance. It's, it's a, it's a very hard balance. That sounds like a daunting task. Yeah. Especially with how intricate the world building is in here. And so you just don't want to stuff things down people's throats, you know? It's like, Oh, and this is this, and this is this. but on those first drafts, you always do, because that you just, you can't help yourself. You just, you just kept it down. Um, and then you've got to carry it back and go, no, hang on a minute. What's necessary here? You know? Well, I think you did a good job though with that. And the prologue fully fit perfectly. I found myself going back to it constantly to reference it just to see how everything started. So it helped a lot. There are a lot of Easter eggs in that prologue. you'll realize that after you've read book two, there's a lot, so. Now I'm going to like go and read the prologue. Study the prologue. I'm like, what is she talking about? Oh my God. Okay. Okay, what was your favorite scene to write in book one? There are a couple, but I was always working towards that very last word. So getting to that very last word was, it was Quite special for me. but if we're talking about a whole scene, I think it's a very good question. I think I would probably say we're talking about fun. There's different vibes here. Right? So if we're talking about fun, it's when Ray was getting condemned and you know, she's, she's, she's just mad. I love I just, you know, I was. I was living my best life. but we're talking about romance and like angst and stuff. I love writing it when, oh actually, when she's in the cell and Khan comes and there's that, loved writing that scene, loved writing that scene because there's a whole history there. So I'm like writing this like with him knowing, you know, and her not knowing, oh my gosh, and she's injured and, and he doesn't realize how injured she is. And it's just like, you know, I was living my Um, but I want to give special mention to the saying that I, the one main saying that I was working towards that whole book and that was the one where Khan showed her a certain something that he's been working on and, getting to that scene and being able to actually. Be there and feel the emotion and everything after, you know, the build up because I never skip ahead. Right? I'm all I just I write in sequence. So getting to that scene finally was like the biggest breath of fresh air because it was to me a really special moment. So, yeah. Yeah, sorry, that was a very roundabout answer. No, you're good. That was amazing. I love to hear what was like the most fun for you to write. I feel like I have so many favorite scenes, but what never fails to move me to tears is at the end when Leary comes in in that whole scene. I've cried every time I've read it. I just can't. I was a mess writing that. I mean, when she comes And when she climbs and she, comes across to her and that, that, I, every single time I had to edit that scene or go through and like tidy it up or whatever during the editing process, I was just like, okay, all right. Oh, I'd always show myself up for cause and then like tuck myself into a corner. So nobody watches me crying. Nice. Well, I'm glad to hear you cried as well, cause man, it makes me emotional, but it's really a moving scene for sure. Yeah. Okay, we have a few fun, light hearted questions, so we can end on a happy note. if Rave and Veya were just hanging out for a night, What do you think they would be doing? Playing Scrippy, grabbing a drink, or something a little more dangerous? I think there would definitely be some Scrippy going on, but I think there would be some very high stakes. And I think there would probably be some drunken dragon riding going on too. That would be so much fun to read. They'll be like, they'll be like, let's just go take out some baddies. Drunk. I think there would be, there would be some Scrippy. There'll be drama, drama that would unfold. They'd be doing all of the above. Oh yes. Yeah, yeah, be me safe. Oh my gosh. If you could hear any of the creators in the book, which one would you pick and why? I think, you know, the interesting thing is, I have been asked this question before, and I feel like my answer's still the same. Don't know what it says about me, but um, so there's, Clode, Clode for Rave is, you know, she's easy for her to listen to because she's, she's, she's got this sort of, this lighter way about her, right? You know, like, Reign's different. She's deeper. there's this dredging emotion that she needs to feel to go, to listen to her and to feel her language. And, I feel like Claude would be my answer because I, sometimes I veer away from those emotions and, those deeper emotions, those harder emotions to face and, yeah, and I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, but I, um, I definitely stuff things down like Rave does. So, um, I like to think that one day my answer will be Raine. But, no, I think I'm still, I'm still avoiding things. Yeah, I don't know if I can handle rain right now either. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Last question. Is there a character or a scene you've written that makes you laugh every time you think about it? Yes, it's in book two though. Sorry. No, that's okay. I can't wait to get to it. Yep, yep, yep, yep. I think I always laugh out loud when Vea is visiting the Velvet Trog. Yeah, I know. And when Pyroc and Rave are together, any time they interact, it makes me laugh out loud, it's so funny. Yeah, yeah, there's, I think as well, when Rave is getting condemned, you know, she was being took to the state basically, Uh, that, that, that moment as well, I, whenever I would go over that one, I would be in hysterics, but Yeah, I think, I think the Velvetrog one is a very good answer. I had so much fun writing that story. I'm not gonna lie, I was like, people are just gonna read this and be like, what the heck is going on inside this girl's head? I was loving it, I was just reading through this line. I am loving it. I enjoyed rereading it again just a few days ago and she goes down there and just like chewing on a chair. I was like, I don't know why that made me laugh, but I don't like any of the brave stubbornness. Like when she's falling back at her old. room at Khan's place and Vea's eating and she's like upset because she's hungry and she like refuses to be nice so she doesn't ask for any food and she just goes on hungry. I love writing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love listening to that. There's so many character interactions that I'm always like, oh I can't wait until they're in the same room together again. I just love it, so. Yeah, I have quite the list of things I'm like, I'm ready for these people to interact again. Okay, so we finished out the questions. If you want to do trial by trivia with us, if you can think of some questions from book one, just off the cuff. I know I'm asking for a lot because you're neck deep in book two, but we can totally skip it if you don't want to do it. It's totally up to you. So it's something, so me quizzing you guys, is it? So something that, so do you, uh, what color or this, that, the other? Something about the timeline or something? Are we talking? The timeline would be a tough one, but I can try. Okay. Hang on. Let me just, Oh, golly. What? Okay. All right. What did Essie cook that Rave had some of when she got into their place? I got it. Do you got it, Kenzie? I remember, but I don't remember at the same time. I know you know though. Um, was it butterman loaf? Yes. Well done. Good job. I was like nervous when we were going to do Trial by Trivia with you because I was like if I don't get these questions right and I've read this book like six, seven times, I'm just not a trivia girl. I remember this being I think one of your Trial by Trivia questions when we were doing the I think you asked me that question, so I remember like, but I didn't remember the answer. I've got another one. All right. So what, what is the name of the place where Rave went to? I'm alive a certain somebody towards the end of the book. Oh, this is also a question you asked me too, but I don't remember it. I'm impressed that you can remember I asked you this, but I don't remember it. Well, was it, I'm going to butcher the pronunciation probably, Bothame, the neutral tri council place? Good job, good job. Golly, well done. Oh my gosh, thank you, thank you. All right, now let me think of another one. I've tried, that's definitely book one and not book two. Definitely. Um, all right, let me think. What is. Allowan's brother's name. I know this one! I want to butcher the pronunciation too. It's um, Hayden? Very good. Hey girls, you go. I'll do one more. Sorry, it just goes onto my tongue. What is the name of the uh, capital of the shade? So we're basically where, where Elowen grew up. I think I know. What is it? Is it Erythia? Yes. Well done. Good job. Well, I've spent a lot of time looking at the map. I'm not, I'm going to not say how long, but it's probably more time than a normal person. I love it. I love it. Cool. Well, thank you for doing trial by trivia with us and thank you so much for joining us. Like truly a pleasure to have you on our podcast is a big milestone for us and you're just such a cool person and getting to hear more about this book and how it's so personal to you is just an experience that I will never forget and I can't wait to reread it with all this knowledge that I have now. Absolutely. My honor. Thank you so much for having me and spending the time with me this morning slash this evening. Um, And I hope you can touch back again after you read book two. Yes, we cannot wait for book two, but yeah, that's a wrap on this author interview. Thank you, Sarah, and can't wait for The Ballad of Falling Dragons to release.