Live from CSI 2025: The Future of Spec Writing, Collaboration, and Construction Innovation

Recorded live from Cleveland, this episode of What the RFI? dives into the energy, insights, and connections shaping CSI National 2025. Host Matt Brennan sits down with Nish Patel (RIB North America), Eric Letbetter (Letbetter ink, LLC.), and Dory Azar (Architect & Product Specialist, RIB Software) to explore how the world of spec writing, RFIs, and construction collaboration is evolving.

From making spec writing engaging and “cool again” to the growing role of digital twins, reality capture, and AI-driven construction management, this roundtable captures the pulse of where the industry is heading. The conversation also digs into the value of networking, the power of community among spec writers, and how collaboration—not conflict—drives better buildings.

🎧 Topics include:

• Lessons and laughs from CSI 2025 in Cleveland
• Why RFIs should be seen as collaboration, not confrontation
• The rebirth of spec writing as a creative and technical craft
• Digital innovation: 360 scanning, QR-coded assets, and progress tracking
• Future trends in flexible building design and sustainability

Chapters

• 00:00 – Live from CSI 2025: Introductions
• 04:38 – Networking and learning at CSI
• 10:43 – Making spec writing engaging and collaborative
• 16:58 – Collaboration and community in construction
• 22:14 – RFIs, relationships, and problem-solving
• 28:34 – Future trends and flexible building design
• 34:20 – Digital innovation and AI in construction management
• 38:12 – Final thoughts and the future of the industry

🎙️Website - WhattheRFI.com

🍏Apple Podcast - What the RFI?
🎧Spotify - What the RFI?
🎥YouTube - @WhatTheRFI

Transcript

0:00

Live from Cleveland, Ohio, this is CSI 2025. Let's get into it. Welcome to What the RFI, I'm Matt Brennan and today we are live at CSI 2025 and Amongst Friends. Let's get into the intro because that's always important. Nish, you're new to the show. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And thanks again. It's a privilege. And thanks again, Matt, for making this happen. Just for folks out there, we just go to texting and then we sort of made this happen like in a couple of hours. And these gentlemen over here, especially Eric, like he just got pulled into this and it's like, yeah, I'm up. And he's going to do better than all of us. Yeah, exactly. So there wouldn't be a better, yeah, there wouldn't be a better group than, than this to sort of ever get into a podcast with. So, yeah, of course, all this a privilege. Again, my name is Nish Patel. I'm the group product manager at RIV North Americas. And I'll sort of pass it over to Eric and then we can get into sort of our backgrounds. Yeah. have a specification consulting company called Letbetter Inc. I spent previously 31 years in corporate architecture, so happy to be out on my own and couldn't be happier with the decision. Absolutely. Dory Azar, architect and product specialist at R.I.B. Software. uh No stranger to the show. I've been on a couple times and it's always awesome chatting with you, Matt. Likewise, returning guests, know, we still have to do is it cheaper to hire an architect? I've got something coming up on that. Don't worry. All right. yeah, we're marrying them. Yeah, that's the second half of that question. doesn't make sense. So, at CSI 2025, know, before we get into this, how many years have you been attending and better yet, why do you keep coming back? So I'll probably go first. This is my first year at CSI national. It's sort of a bit hilarious because I've sort of been a construction manager most of my life, sort of dabbled with construction technology, got into construction tech. And then it's just been a year, around a year that I've been sort of leading the specs business. So I really wanted to get a feel of our customers. Eric is a great addition and has always been a part of our product advisory board, but we really wanted to figure out what's going on and and understand the community better. So here I am, first year in. Thanks. I'll go next. Probably my third year, but I don't I don't come every year. Last year, it wasn't in the budget as I was starting my new business. And I was pretty pretty stingy with my marketing dollars. So I didn't come last year. Okay, the the prior year I was still in still in my my my prior corporate role. And budget cuts there sort of we they end up sending one person and it was it was the the now technical director, the director of technical services there. And so the year before that we had both come. So it's been a few years since I've been here. But I did get sort of roped into coming this year when a presentation that I was partnered with on another future, probably guest, Sherry Harbaugh. She said, yeah, Eric, I submitted that to CSI for national and it got picked. So get your ticket. Yeah, that's right. This is only my second month, second year in a row. Is it really? Yeah, presented last year, presented this year. yeah, just kind of, I think I got a good feel of the spec writer sort of personality and persona now. So it's good, it's good though. It's positive. eh Yeah. My third, was the first year was in Minneapolis and everything. I knew not a soul, you know, because again, I was all based out of Vancouver and that network and everyone was a new friend. You know, everyone was a brand new interaction. No one knew me. Second year was a little bit more fun. And now it's like, you feel special. You know, you come in, you know, everyone that's part of this and, and reconnect. And I think some of like kind of the celebrity portion of youths. kind of rubbed on myself because I was riding the elevator and people were like, I know you and I'm like, Oh shoot, don't know why. do know me? Let's find out where are we going with this? They were fake! It's okay. I love the show. she was show no, but no It was just like hearing that they didn't fall in the podcast and they like it's just like oh this is when you get comments like that on the social side it's like and If the end especially when they're enjoying it's not just like well I know you but I'm actually a listener and I'm doing it and you've captured that audience. It's like okay I've done something good keep it enough gas in the tank to go for another year. You know, it's just one good compliment. You're like, yeah, we're to keep going. Should accomplish absolutely. So what have you seen? What has stood out right now at this conference? know, like we'll get into the whole networking because that's fun on its own, like any particular talks, uh activities, workshops, breakout sessions, what have you been finding? I'll go first. I went to Dory's social media workshop. That was awesome. Partner with Amy Baker. was a great set. um I think the variety has been really good this year. um They did a couple of technical sessions and I think in terms of the way that they did it, it's these little 15, these little three 15 minute bursts um where I felt like I got enough to where I felt like I got value out of that. It offers also an opportunity for a deep dive. So I think it's a good testing grounds for CSI to set something up and say, how did the people react to it? And then see what kind of feedback they get so they can determine if people really want a deeper dive into something like this or whether or not that was enough. And they could do that one again next year in a different environment. Right. And plug for yourself, Eric. You're running off to your own speaking engagement. Yeah, I've got... Coming up here next, I'm super, super jazzed for it. And you're gonna be great. Yes, Yeah, issue for tender and it's actually going to be live streamed on the LinkedIn and everything. So we're going to try it. We did a live stream. did we shoot? just we just did it the other day and it was pretty cool. And yeah, it worked out really, really well. So we're going to keep doing this and get moving. how you did that because I think you need certain qualifiers to stream live on LinkedIn, right? it was all through Riverside, app that does it. Oh, okay. Yeah, and it does it pretty cool. yeah, it's pretty good. Exactly. That's a whole other topic. That's separate conversation. Separate conversation. And I should put my affiliate link in the... No, I don't have a affiliate link, but yeah. For sessions I presented this morning and I haven't had a chance to see anybody else's so I'm looking forward to yours this afternoon. And so yeah mine was kind of like I had to get my own stuff out of the way. Now I get to enjoy it and kind of kick back because we did a webinar right after my presentation and then we're doing this right now so which are all enjoyable. But now I get to like maybe grab a coffee and just watch other people do the work now. So tell us about the live webinar. like, you're at the bench, you're doing, we're doing a live podcast. Yeah, so when we were we do uh every two weeks, we do a webinar called spec talk where we just usually have a spec writer uh guest on Eric's done it before. And we just chat about either specific topic related to spec writing or sort of just general like Q &A stuff. And it happened to fall this week that we needed a spec talk. So was like, well, I'm not in the office. Like, well, it's OK. We're going to do one live from CSI. So we kind of set up a bunch of questions, not tech questions. They were just kind of like fun. Yeah. Like like like if spec writing was a movie genre, what genre would it be like? And just asking spec writers these questions. And it was kind of fun kind of get them on the like to loosen up a little bit. Right. And not not like what's your favorite feature in spec? What's this? You know, so it's just kind of getting them. ah in a more casual environment. uh It was a ton of fun, not without its tech. The Wi-Fi cut out halfway through. Otherwise, no, uh that's what we did today and made it a full hour. It was fun. and then mesh Yeah, so... What is this? I'm holding up like a baseball card, but it's... it's not a player I quite know. Tell me about it. well, thanks for bringing that up, Matt. So I think this again goes back to sort of this being our first time here and then sort of we were invited for a speaking engagement as well. Like we literally session number one after the keynote earlier today and we were literally competing with Amy and Dory and like that's always a tough crowd. Like these guys can sort of pull people towards them. But yeah, so I think the whole intention and sort of why I'm so passionate about this is how do we make spec writing cool again and great again. That sounds more cliche now, but, uh, and that's where like, can we make sort of spec writing more personable and things of that sort? So that all started with, uh, me wanting to sort of create a 3d action figure, like have a 3d printed. Couldn't make that happen. Tried sort of DIYing my own sort of a game card concept. And that's what, uh, that's what it ended up with. So we've got spec name Sheila, and then we've got spec night Stephen. Well, this is sort of deja vu, but it looks like like spec night Stevens superpowers are busting out of eyes and uh it just blends into this more cast. What's the RFI? So Was it loosely based on Matt? uh I mean I could have been sort of influenced by it. Change enough where we don't know royalties or anything Yeah, good. Like you need to wear like Clark Kent. I've said too much. And just the names. So Stephen is from Dr. Strange. from the, so that was the inspiration, which is it was Stephen Strange and then Sheila was just random. Yeah, I just need everything to be, it says to begin with. So what do I do? So that's, that's where it is. That's a touchy subject. Could be that. It's probably an unconscious bias. That's fine. just joking. Yeah, it's all good. Yeah. trying to sort of grow that cinematic universe. And hopefully if I can get more characters like, like, like everybody else, right. I'm just going to add to what, what Eric and Dory were talking about, like what's impressed me the most with CSI, because I've been to other construction focused conferences and I heard like just weird stuff about spec writing in general about demographics and like, mean, spec writing is boring and all of that kind of stuff. But I mean, this is literally the recipe for a construction project. And if you enjoy sort of food, it starts with a good recipe and sort of a more sustainable and healthy sort of built environment is going to be founded on great specs. So, I mean, just this whole community, as Eric was talking about, like just the diversity in sort of the sessions, right? Like you've got Dory and uh Amy talking about, hey, sort of the social aspects and how do we make spec writing great again and how do we sort of champion each of these individuals as being as being awesome in what they do and then sort of Eric's doing his part in terms of championing just the mindset and then sort of how you get get to the basics of spec writing and then we and me and AK from R.I.B. we were just talking about not A.I. per se but collaborative intelligence and those were literally the action figures that we wanted to use to sort of drive that home at the end of the day. uh But yeah, just that community and sort of building product manufacturers, of board authors and all of them just trying to collaborate and having that sense of giving. I mean, that's what I'm enjoying the most. Everybody just has so much knowledge that they want to share. Like even what Eric was talking about, like those 15 minute sessions, it's just like a wealth of knowledge and this sort of bite size. Yeah, kudos to CSI for that. something that I've picked up a lot of while we're here is other spec writers voluntarily like if you need help with anything, call me. If you need a second, you need a template. If you need something, just ask me and I'll help you. it's for a tight group, you'd think it'd be a little more competitive, but it's the exact opposite. It feels like everybody wants to lift everyone up, which is a sign of a thriving industry, right? Like when there's enough for everybody, that's a good thing. Do you feel that? Like you're in it more than the three of us. the people that have poured into me as I sort of started out on my own journey, there aren't enough ways or uh thank yous that I could possibly offer. A bunch of names and a bunch of stuff that I've been provided to get set up has just been total game changer and I owe it all to this community. So in terms of that's a good point too. Now, if you had to pick and choose CSI is better for A networking or B the courses. Which one would you kind of lean the teeter-totter to? I think it's a yes and, obviously, but I think it depends on where you are in your career. one of the things, I don't have employees now, it's just me. But one of the things that corporate, one of reasons that they shifted to two was to get two people in here, but really, hey, we're going to bring someone else here. We're going to bring a younger person here and get them plugged in, which they did this year. So they've brought not only Director of Technical Services here, but they've got another one of their young rising stars that they brought. And so it's a way to engage the next generation uh into this community, which I think is a real, can't say enough nice things about the way that they handle bringing people up through the system. Absolutely. Dory, what would you choose? Network or Session? a networking guy. I mean, I love a good session, but I'm like social butterfly in these in these events, right? So I just look forward to meeting new people, especially hosting the webinar as we do. I see a lot of names on the screen. Right. So this person's here, this person's here and they ask questions and you reply, but they're just names on a screen to me in that moment. So it's been really nice to come here and be like, you're Steve, you're by your and like kind of, I mean, you see him on LinkedIn and stuff, but you feel like you kind of know people just through comments and like DMing and stuff but it's really nice to like lock it all in with an in-person handshake or a hug and totally you know you kind of have like a little head start on the relationship already because you're chatting so much on uh online. And I was at Aspire and I had one individual come up and you know it's Darlene and I'm like we're already connected on LinkedIn. I'm like oh shoot like really I feel like an idiot because I'm going through my my Rolodex and my mind and everything and we pull it up and I'm like we are connected and I hold the profile picture and face you know I'm like You kind of backpedaled, it's no, I totally agree with the network aspect of it and being your first year, like how have you been feeling with it? Well, yeah, I mean, thanks again, Matt. think I sort of Dory's feelings as well. mean, especially in my role where like we have 30,000 plus subscribers. Yeah. And then we see so many names. And like many times it's like people having sort of feedback enhancement requests just sort of their thoughts about things outside of the product and just being able to put a face to the name. I think that's, that's awesome. And being able to do that in person. I mean, these are the days that I hope that we don't have 24 hours in a day, we have many more. These are the days for which I need like time travel. But yeah, it's just that and being able to sort of give back to the community because many times it's very easy. You just like. make it transactional with emails and LinkedIn and all that kind of stuff. this is where we came to know so much about Eric over the past couple of years. And he's been an inspiration, not just what he does professionally, but also outside of that. And I'll let him speak about it, but he does a lot to support the community. ah it's true inspiration. And there's so many uh gems walking on this floor. There's all sources of inspiration for us. it was pretty cool. Now you brought up a good point about, RFIs and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, the podcast was all about that. And specs definitely like, yeah, they are the recipe of making a great project. And yes, we could dive in and be like, you know, Eric, what's the worst RFI you got or something like that. But what would be advice to, you know, first time listener or someone that's been doing specs and everything forever. But the reality is we're always learning, you know, I talking about a detail that I had to revise three different times because a contractor each contactor that touched it, they made their own little tweaks to it and wanting an extra, right? Is there some, you know, in terms of advice or like things to avoid and, you know, and because we don't want to create our advice if we can help it. No, you don't want to mean I I tell I tell clients and people I work because it's like I really like I Really want to help reduce the number of RF eyes. Yeah, I've been I've I've answered enough of them that I don't I don't want them I don't want any of them. No, I can tell you I can tell you a funny story about a really strange RFI I got cool. It's the strangest So this was this was the so it was for a project on an island Okay? Well this is sound strange already. on a military base, right? And so the question comes up because they can't just go to the hardware store or wherever and the shop and get extra rebar. we got this, doing a bond beam and they said, hey, can we put two number four rebars inside this bond beam instead of one number five? So you want to put more steel in there and not less. And the engineer is like, Yeah? Yeah? And so it's like that RFI, you know, like I never would have I never would have expected someone to try and put more of something. Making right? They must have had so much. It's gonna take us whatever it is 8-12 weeks to get another batch of rebar on the island. yeah, this is what we have to do to to keep going. Yeah. It's like a reality show. I know. As you're telling us, I'm like, this is like Apollo 11, where they had to like, they, you know, they were gonna die. And they were pulling all this stuff. And they had the, you know, the team down there off ground, not in it and pulling up solutions and trying to, but that's a really good point in terms of the industry. Like we've been dealing with it for like last five years of scarcity of products or can't get this. And, but again, being that creative mindset going, okay, this is a solution. What can we do with what we've got versus trucking and that goes into the sustainable aspect of it as well. Now, another another RFI slash the middle story that I can tell you is that when we were going through all the material product things, you know, I wanted to check with one of my product, my roof, my call my roofing guy. Yeah. Check in with him for, you know, validity of these things. And at one point, he said, right now, Eric, if you can get someone to give you a roof with a warranty right now, and you're in the middle of construction, you should do it because you're not going to be able to get the other stuff. And so I think I want to really speak a little bit to the relationship that you have between product reps and architects and specifiers is that if I didn't know and trust that guy for the years that I've known him, that would have been a different conversation or a different takeaway. so knowing who he is and what he brings to the table and his experience, I know he's right. And I don't have to second guess it. So This is an environment where you can find those people. Yeah. And I can't understate the value of that enough. So networking, yes, but that's also networking and to Hickel all at once. And so that's why it's a yes and for me on a of these things. And you can only be so close to the pulse of things yourself, right? You have to rely on those external. You have to like, I kind of know what's going on in that industry, but you really know what's going on, like, as of right now. So yeah, that's a great example of like, you got to rely on your people, your network. I don't even think it's ever come up on the show either to lakes or someone's kind of setting and I'm just like thinking myself I'm like, you're absolutely right. Bill like and I would build that relationship. But again, I find a lot of firms are will just expect the product and it's like, well, I questions. Well, don't worry about it. But you know, like I remember We got to, we had a Luma Cloud on a building, right? And it was the contract point out some fire testing that wasn't matching. So we went to a Pollock because they were the other product. And again, getting on the phone and pulling up this data and really working because you got to, right? You got to get the, they're the ones and in your liability is on the line, everything based on that and having that relationship is really key. Yeah. I mean, I had a different thought. have a different take. whenever we think about RFIs, unfortunately, it always comes out as being adversarial in terms of the relationship. Like it's always like, there's going to be a change order. It's going to be like somebody screwed up or things of that sort. But when I reflect on what Eric was talking about, that's probably a true example of somebody collaborating to sort of problem solve, right? Like, better outcome. It's like, for sure, okay, we want sort of more steel, because we're to charge you now more for for the tonnage or any of that. Yeah, it's truly because we wanted a solution that was quick, that was in the grand scheme of things sustainable, and it got the job done. So I mean, like, I just want this industry to sort of remember that our advice and not always adversarial because that's that's what that's what we all sort of think about. yeah, our FI and I will love like, so Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing both sides of the coin. And that is a good point, because again, like working with contractors, like again, you can have two different types of jobs where the contractors just peppering you with RFIs, requesting an extra basically, or they're trying to work. I bring this up and I've shared this story a few times on the show is... It was the wrong time to build because was COVID was still, you know, with supply demands. We couldn't get the rooftop units in time, right? So this project wasn't going to get the, you know, built on schedule. And again, you can't just leave a hole in the roof and go for it substantially. You need to energize and everything. And because they kept working and they would kept giving, I think we reviewed three, four different shop drawings because they were trying to get that product in there. And again, it's all about that relationship of doing that. And, you know, because of the wiring that was installed to match the original specs of the product, you know, the one that we specified, know, that got changed, but the contractor owned it. He worked with his electrical to get, you know, changed from single phase to three phase or whatever the case was. It was a team effort. And at the end of the day, everyone was hugging, everyone was high-fiving at the end of the project. Cause we worked together as a team versus, well, that's not my problem, it's yours. Or, you know, having that us versus them attitude. With the clients from, you know, again, kind of being on the spec side and working with multiple architects, you finding still that the attitude or more and more want to strive and collaborate? I would say it's definitely more collaboration. Everybody wants to collaborate. Like I can see a perceivable change. Like literally people are sort of reflecting back on their contracts. It's like, don't want to do sort of the design, bid, build method of delivering stuff. We want to sort of do more integrated project delivery. We want to do more fun stuff. We want to do more collaborative ways of doing things. then sort of, even if the technology doesn't exist, like this is what I love about this community. They're trying to figure out ways of making it happen. And that is true collaboration, which is how do we sort of get the job done, whether it's a critical health care facility in a community or it's something else that's mission critical, or maybe it's just having that for humanity kind of projects. I see just collaboration, banding people together, unlike whatever the narrative is out there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can literally see it. Like I can see people like just wanting to sort of share, wanting to sort of band together for more. efficient and sustainable outcomes. And we need that. This planet needs that. like in my experience I've worked with contractors on both sides of that fence that are really collaborative and everybody's on the same team and we're just just trying to get the building done and then maybe we've all experienced other contractors who are looking for any anything to just delay the project or charge more money or and that constant friction of your project is like, who's this? Who's this helping right now? Because there's an architect with consultants, there's a contractor, a subcontractors, there's just an owner. They might be relocating from one place to a new facility. it's just like, my, can we just get through this? Can we just work together and not like look for reasons to drag this out? Yeah. But I agree, especially now, maybe the being surrounded by spec writers is that technical collaboration, like getting all your ducks in a row. That's what's. I'm really seeing here too, so that collaboration. Yeah. The keynote at lunch was definitely kind of talking future trends. And the big thing what I heard was, Matt, go buy solar stocks and energy stocks. uh it did strike again, what is the new trends? what they were speaking on stage was all about data centers. And I've heard this too, like, you know, looking for work myself and everything, Apple was posting a data center uh architect, that's basically all you would do. design data centers and manage the construction of a kind of interesting role. And it's Apple too, kind of cool. but yeah, you're right. It's with the fact that like this podcast has to be hosted somewhere as a server and someone else is recording at the same time somewhere else and it just it everything so data driven everything we're posting like what is the do you know the social numbers of how many videos are being uploaded daily on Instagram or YouTube? You know, any guess? I think it's like probably it's got to be a billion like it's it's got to be an unbelievable amount globally. I mean, it's got to be it's got to be. Yeah. Yeah. Like a number that I can't even. Yeah, think last I checked, think in come 2025, we are consuming a terabyte of data every second. Like, yeah. So that's just consuming, right? So it's like, yeah, you might be using it for storing for streaming and all of that. But collectively, the human race is around the one terabyte mark every second. crazy. So like you think of these data centers, like no wonder why they're trying to build it. So does that like you've heard the arguments about, well, that's affecting the climate change too. Because of that, and you've heard like, you know, even talks about them putting in the ocean to keep it cool. I don't know. So but any takeaways your own from the lunch keynote? I didn't get to attend that today. I don't have any takeaways from that today. Fair enough. you were sitting next So I think it was interesting to hear that the developers are a little bit a little bit bullish, right? And then the sort of emphasis on from a facilities standpoint in preparing for that next, know, preparing for that next, the next use of that building. And I think I can see the vision for that being super critical now more than it used to be, because I think buildings, I think the building usage is going to change over time. And the lesson probably from the 2020 was, you know, the building's use type needs shifted, but now they've shifted back again, but they're not the same. building in the flexibility for your buildings and thinking about what that building usage is going to be like moving forward is a great question, but it's also a super challenging uh problem for architects to really start to dig into. Well, like take a simple TI, right? It's a coffee shop. We know the group, the occupancy is pretty straightforward. Next person comes and goes, I want to put a paint store. Well, that's, know, in our BC building code, that's a, it's a group F, right? And you know, I mean, it's, it's high. So now is your ratings the same? No. So you can't do it, right? Same thing like with these office buildings. Yeah, it'd be awesome to slap a bunch of servers in there, but it's not structurally sound. Well, and then the office conversion, know, convert office to, you know, to residential or multifamily. It's not that simple. It's a great idea and there's been some great success stories, but it takes some real thought. Yeah. And I think even pushing the boundaries, there was one home that we did some concepts and it was actually for a TV producer that we're going to do it in the end, unfortunately, just didn't end up going through. But the concepts were a lot of fun. And you'd appreciate this because it was a residential home and it was in beautiful White Rock, BC, overseeing the ocean, right? So already it's very cool. It's nestled in the trees and versus any, you know, some contractor will just go and wipe the land and be done. It was go and look at the trees. What's healthy? Leave as much as you can. And then the neat thing that with the design of it, it was kind of this one massive space. Yes, you would have the fixed millwork as a kitchen, but the whole biofelia aspect is that the space is not a dedicated space. It's a multi space. And to go from maybe where you probably would end up sleeping is you had to go over this catwalk. So you're always going this catwalk to go from the kind of the general, you know, space one to space two. And the thing with the catwalk, it was open above. So if it's cold, you get that kick in nature that, oh, it's cold, right? Oh, it's raining, I some raindrops, know, hey, it's snowing. You just, you would have that reconnection to nature. So it was a biophilia style home that we were looking at. And the same thing, the bedrooms would be an office slash that. So it is a less than as more concept and being very minimalist because, you you don't want to have your messy desk in your bedroom, but it was really kind of taking that to be. flexible with where you are, know, the moment you're gonna be sleeping here and the next moment you're gonna be sleeping over there and have that kind of thing. So kind of that's what was going through my mind here about these buildings and constantly changing and again going into that mindset. Office is you're starting to see it and laptops have the power rather than having these desktops and cables and everything, just have a laptop and go wherever you are. Right. And being that perspective and versus that's my desk, you know, thinking of like office, you know, that's my stapler. That's my stapler. No, it's, that's not your desk. This is where you're to hang out for the next few weeks as you collaborate and work on a project. And then guess what? You're going to go work with that team and that team, and then you're going to be a mentor. Like, I think it's that mind shift. And that's kind of what you're kind of saying, Eric, is just thinking about that and trying to, and keep the assets with the building. That was another cool comment. Oh yeah. That's a challenge. That's always a challenge in terms of documentation and getting the warranty transfer. I heard him say, I want to know where the warranties are. I heard him say that twice. Yes. Good point. What do you get like, yeah, in terms of specs, you're making sure that's all like, of course, that's included and it's tied into the shot. It's included in the specifications, but it comes down to an execution, not just executing it, managing the execution and asking for it. And someone's got to check it to make sure they have given all the things that they're supposed to give. And that goes back to what you said earlier about like change of use or like repurposing a building is like, it's not just the idea. There's so many little nuts and bolts that have to be like worked out in that conversion, right? Like included warranty transfer and code. And like, it's not just like, let's turn that mall into like a retirement home. It's like, no, it's like, there's so much more to that. uh you, and Eric jump on this one and we'll get into the spec side of it, but digital twin motion or like that, like that taking, cause that's a one thing. And I say this to Eric, cause I've done this presentation a few times where you've designed this building, you've got it built, you've got these maintenance manuals, but why not digitize that even more where it's a QR code on the water heater or that. And the mechanical guy, he's not bringing around a binary, that stuff just clicks dust. go up there and go, shoot, what filter is it? Snap the photo of the QR code, boom, pulls it up, AI probably could help and that kind of stuff. taking that as an architect to own that as a service, and are you kind of experienced a lot of that kind of, know, afterlife? I haven't, but now I want to write that into all my... I write that into the Division 1. Just put it in Division 1 and make it happen. Imagine that the manufacturers would want that. It's more sustainable. Sure, someone has a paper manual, but the next time someone renovates or someone moves, especially in residential design, somebody's going to lose the manuals. The previous owner may not know and may not care, but if that QR code is on there and there's a... And I think like, and there's programs like OpenSpace that are kind of, know, you can do that and you can capture before the walls get boarded. But what I say to a lot of architects is grab a 360 camera, 500 bucks, well spent money and everything. Before that building gets boarded, go to every room and take a photo, put it on a plan, know where it is because... And again, this all ties in your specs and you as an architect to take additional services down the road is when they say, hey, we want to do some renovations. No problem. Right away, what are you doing? You're pulling up those photos in the 360, maybe even a video too, and looking around going, no way we're touching that wall because of the cross brace, the pipes. going running through that wall. The uh software, the service that I use for the interior scanning is Iguide. It's Canadian company. Okay, cool. they, yeah, you're right for like the few and you can take measurements off of it too, right? So crazy. I know there's a pipe in that wall. Let's see exactly like if there's a leak or something you can within a couple of inches know exactly where you got to cut out to make a repair or something like that. You're not sort of investigating and poking and prodding with with certainty you can open up a wall. for any reason or know that we can't touch this one. Like this one's off limits or this half of this wall is off limits. It's x-ray vision, it's great. in just going to jump in. Go for it. This sort of just reminds me, just brings back so many memories. I pursued my graduate studies in construction technology. This was at the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign. So I used to work in a research lab known as RAMAC, but we were literally doing sort of reality capture. So I guess you might have heard about the Boston Dynamics Robot, SPOT. Yeah. The autonomous dog. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so we were working on technology that could just reality capture during the construction phase, right? Because it's like, like so many different variables. How do you even understand slab edge and things of that sort? But yeah, this was precisely the use case. mean, the use case over there was more driven by, does anybody know how much progress has been made on a job site? Like I said, yeah, Joe thinks like it's 70 % poured. And it's like, yeah, like, looks like we've got like 60 % drywall, but like it really affects the subcontractors because they're payments. Yeah. Yeah. mean, even if it's off by a percent or, or an a half, that literally is the difference between them being able to sort of pay the crew and not being able to do that. So a lot of this like, is like string of pearls, both up and down screen. like this, when I was sort of listening, you all sort of talk about stuff like it, it really sort of rang a bell. yeah. Well, like, this is a common for open space. an AI because yes, every month we get progress frames, right? It basically comes across our desk and each discipline reviews each one and kind of go, it? are they 50 % poured or is material on site? All these. Again, with open space or like a software platform like that where it is analyzing it, taking that and taking what the contractor puts in when he submits for his progress claim and then it would just basically back check and say, check. It would be hard. Like, I don't know, but part of me is thinking I'm like, just a few little switches and pivots. That would be really cool. Like you still are the one, the governing authority is saying, yes, we're going to approve this amount, you know, 50 % of the concrete where the case. Yeah, I mean, I'll sort of add to that, like one of the bigger things, like when we were trying to sort of figure out this technology, because it was all about 3D point cloud data and how do you sort of do image classification and things of that sort. Like I'll give you the example, like the hardest thing that it was for us to classify was rebar. Like just going back to what Eric was talking about, Is that a size five? Is that a size four? And how much of that's been consumed? Because now like rebar is procured in terms of weight, in terms of tonnage. But like when you're sort of doing a 3D scan, you just have sort of the two dimensional sort of information. You don't know how much is left or how much has been consumed at the end of the day. So that was, that was hard. That still is hard to begin with. But I mean, there could be a simple workaround, which is can you have like some kind of a sensor, which could just keep weighing it at the end of the day? Or could you place it on a weigh scale or something of that sort and like have innovation in terms of how you store materials? So, I mean, this just reminds me that, like we all want sort of autonomous systems and sort of automation, but sometimes it's just this beautiful symphony of automation, humans being in the loop, and then just sort of really simple technology that can make life much better. Yeah, very cool. Well said. So we got to kind of wrap this up here in the next kind of five minutes. um You know, Eric, you got to get to your class, which, you know, I think we're all kind of going anyway. We all got to go to this class. What do you, you know, with, you know, the fact that we still got 24 hours left of this conference and, you know, and it's going to go in a tornado fly by like that. What are you looking forward to over the next kind of 12 hours? I got two more sessions I got to attend. So I'm looking forward to seeing you speak. I'm looking forward to seeing you speak. I want to step outside. I just want to smell some fresh air for five minutes too. I love conferences. I love the networking, but it's like, how is Cleveland? Like, I don't know. I didn't leave one building since I got there. So I'm going to try to sneak out a little bit tomorrow. I mean, look outside is just. Yeah, it's a gorgeous outside. And to like, like, yeah, we got. Yeah, I must say there is a bug problem here, but hey, you know, I'm sure Cleveland's on on. They do want to get it. a great conference that even the bugs want to get in. a good point. Yeah, but the Cleveland sign is over there the big famous one where you can go in Stand in front of the sign get your photo and then so and get the He's gonna go stand in front of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Daydream a little bit. I know. I wish it were. Oh, don't be. Hahaha So There's a chance. There's always a chance. just not doing anything for it. Yeah. Eric, anything you want to ask kind of? Yeah, so I feel like I haven't been able to network as much as I probably thought I would. There's a bunch of people I haven't been able to see yet. Probably just maybe it's a little bit of anxiety about uh the session that I'm about to do, I'm feeling good about it. But I'm looking forward to relaxing a little bit and having a little bit more, a little bit less stress. I brought my air horn and everything. I was on that I was going to boo him. What? No, no, just joking. Yeah. It's going to be a sweetheart. So again, I'm just going to add to what Dory just suggested Eric's session, your session. And then there's also Holly Jordan, who's speaking about collaboration between building product manufacturers and, and, uh, and sort of the usual folks on the, on the design side. So I'm really looking forward to that. Uh, think that that would be really elevating them. I mean, that's truly pushing the limits of collaboration. And I would say just building trust. in this whole process. think, I think a lot of that's been eroded, unfortunately, because of COVID and stuff. But yeah, and outside of that, just having fun stepping out there, like I'm just envious of those people just walking there on the mall. So yeah, we're really looking forward to that. And then we have this great opportunity. I don't know, maybe we might have another ad hoc. I think we're about to another guest too because there's uh Yeah, this guy's been cleaning the windows and yeah, he might have been me. I don't know. You know, he's totally. Yeah, he's you know, he could have changed his whole life That's right oh Yeah, in the the. That's on an angle yeah, yeah, yeah well, thank you guys for being part of this this is Absolutely, I love getting harassed at the airport through security for bringing all this here, but it's Worth it it is so worth it to do this and connect and yeah like you know Dory you've been on this like this number three number four like we've been I gotta get you to punch my punch card too. Yeah. Like a t-shirt or something. Yeah, I'm thinking socks. But yeah, just give me a little bit more time. yeah, we're getting we're moving to places. So awesome. But thank you. Yeah, again, where can people find find you to engage with you and see the stuff that you're involved in? Definitely. mean, LinkedIn is, where I would appreciate anybody wanting to connect with me again. My name is Nish Patel, but on LinkedIn, I'm Nishant Patel and Eric's been giving me a hard time because when you search for me on LinkedIn, you're not, you're going to see a clean shaven like 12 years version of me. So I'm going to get it updated. My apologies. The photo lab is open right there. Definitely definitely so that's on my to-do list, but yeah linkedin nashant patel. Yeah, feel free to reach out. Awesome. Thanks again Matt for the opportunity really appreciate that Yes. I'll plug my social media account, which uh definitely needs an overhaul. And this guy's this guy's been challenging me a little bit to help that. So uh it is let better ink LLC is my Instagram handle. That's ink with a K and my website is let better ink dot com. And then you can find me, Eric, let better on LinkedIn. What's your business card look like? So I have two of them. have a paper version and I have a poker chip version with a QR code that just takes you to my website. uh I encountered a card like that in the past and I thought the thought is there's a much lower chance of someone losing that in a stack of other business cards at a conference than there is. And it was fun. And it's cool. Yeah, exactly. I think if you just Google my name, Dory Azar, you'll get all the options that you need. There's not a lot of Dory Azars in the world. So if you want to connect on LinkedIn, you can. I'm extremely active on Instagram and TikTok. If you want to find me there, um you'll come across my website. So however you want to reach out to chat about anything, I'm pretty easy to find. Well, thank you guys. Appreciate it. Architects, keep designing and contractors, keep making those blueprints reality. We'll see you on the next one. Thanks. Thank you. There we go. There you go, supermod.