Grace, Works & Judgement Explained in James | Daniel K. Eng

In this episode of Exploring the Language of Scripture, Daniel Mikkelsen sits down with Daniel K. Eng, Associate Professor of New Testament at Western Seminary, to explore eschatological approval in James and what it means for faith, works, and final judgement.

Together, they discuss how James 1:12 serves as the key to the letter, how James and Paul use the Greek word for justification differently, and why trials, wisdom, and perseverance play a crucial role in James’ theology. From the role of works in salvation to the power of speech in judgement, this episode highlights the practical and theological significance of eschatological approval in James.

Whether you’re a student of biblical languages, interested in the theology of James, or wrestling with the relationship between faith and works, this conversation will provide deep insights into one of the most debated books in the New Testament.

⚠ Audio Disclaimer: Some parts of this episode contain restored audio due to clipping issues. We’ve done our best to improve clarity, and we appreciate your understanding.

Don’t Miss the Next Episode:

Our next episode features a conversation with Paulus de Jong, exploring New Creation in John’s Gospel.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction
01:48 Introducing Daniel K. Eng
03:40 How Daniel K. Eng Discovered Biblical Languages 
05:39 How Knowing The Biblical Languages Changes Bible Reading 
13:20 What is Eschatological Approval in James? 
17:59 Wisdom, Trials, and the End Times in James 
20:45 Who Are in the Diaspora, and Why Does It Matter? 
25:00 Eschatology in James: Judgment and Final Approval 
31:12 Justification in James vs. Paul: Conflict or Complement? 
33:10 Martin Luther’s Struggle with James 
35:04 How James and Paul Use the Greek Word for Justification 
38:42 Farming, Growth, and Salvation in James 
41:30 Joy in Suffering: How Judgment Shapes Christian Living 
46:51 The Power of Speech: Words and Their Eternal Consequences 
49:56 Living in Light of Eschatological Approval: Final Takeaways

Music Credits:
Music from #Uppbeat
https://uppbeat.io/t/all-good-folks/aspire

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Podcast Keywords:
biblical languages, New Testament, Old Testament, Christ, bible study,  Relationship with God, learn biblical languages, Biblical Theology, Christianity, Covenants, New covenant, old covenant, language acquisition, Biblical Greek, Biblical Hebrew.

Transcript

0:00

Eschatological approval is the idea that when a follower of Jesus gets to the end and faces judgment, that God would say, you are approved... Jesus died and rose to give our salvation through faith alone. this means that believers have been approved in Jesus. But why is there so much concern about eschatological approval in James then? James is talking about how we're looking at evidence at the time of judgment in the end and looking at someone's life and saying, this is justification. Paul seems to use it in a way that is different... So James is not about our current life. It's about what is it going to take for a follower of Jesus to get to the end and God would say, you're approved... The way we use our tongue. I mean, what we see in James is the way we use our tongue is going to be evaluated. And whether or not we see it now, we see it later. James says... In your work you say that James 1.12 is the central opening of the letter. It highlights the concerns for eschatological approval in the letter. Why is that? Hey and welcome back to another episode exploring the language of scripture brought to you by NT Greek Tutoring, the place for personalized Greek learning in your spare time. I'm your host Daniel Mikkelsen, the founder of NT Greek Tutoring and a PhD candidate at the University of Edinburgh in New Testament and Christian origins. And this podcast exists to make gems form biblical studies accessible to everyday Christians and show how biblical languages opens up scripture. Our aim is to increase your love. for God and his Word so that you will become more joyful witnesses for his mission. And today I'm delighted to be joined by Daniel K Eng, who is associate professor of New Testament languages and literature at Western Seminary in Portland. Daniel also taught Greek and New Testament at several institutions before arriving at Western. He did his PhD studies at the University of Cambridge, titled Eschatological Approval in the Epistle of James, which has been published under a different title, Eschological Approval, the Structure and Unifying Motive in James, which we'll be talking a little bit more about later on in this podcast. He has also published several articles in the New Testament on various topics and edited several academic monographs. And I had the privilege to meet Daniel and his family in Cambridge as I started my MPhil. And he was in his final year, I believe, of his PhD at the time. And we had some great conversations at the famous Tyndale House coffee breaks and in the stimulating community there. And it's a great honor to have you with me today, Daniel. It's good to be here, Daniel. Yeah, anything else you want to add before we jump into some questions? Well, I'm encouraged about your podcast, Daniel. I'm glad that you are promoting the use of biblical languages as we continue to look for what is the meaning of the biblical text so that we can follow him more and be able to serve the Lord better. Yeah, thank you for that encouragement. I feel like there's so many things that you can get from reading the Bible in its original languages. So guess that's a good way to segway into asking the first question. So how did you get into studying biblical languages? So I was in seminary. I went to Talbot School of Theology in Southern California. I was studying to be a pastor. the short story is we were required to learn Greek and Hebrew. And I'm really glad I was required. It was not easy. And that's something that you'll probably be saying over and over again, but it's not easy. But I believe that the work is worth it. So how I got into the biblical languages, I have, I especially had have an affinity for biblical Greek. Yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about your journey into this? How you found it? you know, it was, it was not, like I said, it was a lot of work, but I had some really, a really good community around me. I had classmates who were encouraging me and helping me to study. And I had, I had professors who were very enthusiastic about the biblical texts and showing how it makes a difference when you know, when you're able to know Greek and Hebrew. and so that kept me motivated. as I moved into, as it moved into pastoral ministry. I was able to prepare my Bible studies and my preaching from the original text. And that made a difference in me coming in and being confident and knowing that, I've done the hard work to see, do this exegesis, be able to expose this for the people so that lives can be changed. And so all of that kept me motivated. Yeah, think that for me personally was actually to, I just wanted to go that step deeper into the text. But also that so that I could know Jesus better and thereby also preach him more carefully and faithfully. So I very much resonate with what you just said. But how have you experienced knowing the biblical languages opening up scripture for you? Like I said, think that coming in, you know, coming into seminary, one of the things that, you know, we would always think about is that we have all this secondary literature. We have people who have made comments about scripture. We have study Bibles. We have commentaries. And even if I wasn't sure about what the commentary was saying in terms of the language it was using and things like that, the vocabulary that was in there, a lot of times the the secondary literature I would look at would talk about things like grammar and syntax and things like that. And I would just kind of gloss over that and kind of get to the conclusion. And I'm like, okay, that's what the Bible is saying. But knowing the biblical languages has helped me to think critically about the secondary literature because the Bible is authoritative, not the commentary. The commentary is just someone's not just, but somebody's comments on it. And it's a scholar who's worked hard. But at the same time, you read another commentary and that this person who is just as accomplished and just as sharp would have a different view. And so what do you do with it? And so for me, knowing the biblical languages has helped me to think critically and say, okay, well, I see what the scholar is saying in this commentary, or I see what the person who is expositing is saying. And I agree with them because of the... because of how they are justifying or showing the evidence from the text. Or I could say, hey, I disagree with them and say, hey, the text doesn't necessarily say what they think it's saying and so on. it gave me the tools to be able to think critically and to be able to come to my own conclusions based on what I'm seeing in the text. Yeah, actually going to the source. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So do you have a couple of maybe an example where you where you have seen that something that you did not see in translation or something like that? Yeah, I mean, there's some there's some there's some really fun examples, things like when the when the New Testament has alliteration, for example. So first, John, would be ἀγαπητοί (agapetoi), ἀγαπῶμεν (agapomen), ἀλλήλους (allelous). You see that roll off your tongue so nicely when John says, let us love one another. That doesn't come out in the the the translation. And so but, you know, even things like when when Paul is writing that he in Philippians when he's writing that he, about his former life. and he was saying that he was a persecutor of the church. That, that Greek word is διώκω (dioko). he was persecuting the church, but then, in the next section, when he starts talking about how he became a follower of Jesus, he says, now I'm pursuing Christ. And that he uses the same exact word διώκω (dioko). And he, that is highlighting the fact that he has changed. His life has been changed because of the gospel. And that's a beautiful thing. that doesn't come out in the translation. And so, yeah, there's, you know, there's a lot of things that we see that are just beautiful, but also just can help us to understand what's going on with the text. You mentioned some of the articles that I published. One of the things I was looking at, for example, was when Jesus uses the word friends in John 15, and that Greek word is φίλος (philos). me researching what φίλος (philos) meant at the time gave me lot more insight into what Jesus was saying. So that's a little preview for those of who can look at my article. Hmm. Yes, an interesting article. I make the case that it's not what our modern Western understanding of friends is. Yeah, that's good teaser. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think let's re-circle back to the Paul passage, which is actually interesting that he is using the same word there. pop, yeah, in Philippians, yes. Yeah, that he is now he's pursuing rather pursuing the congregation of God. He's now pursuing Christ. Yes. Yes. Obviously the word has semantic differences, it means like persecution in the first instance, but in the other one it means pursuit. But there is this wordplay that doesn't come over into English. It doesn't come over and add. so this is a, a beautiful thing that we see that Paul is making that connection about how his life has changed. Hmm, yeah, and I actually appreciate it because I've read it but I'm maybe not like thought around it in the same way. So, but it is true, it does use that word and it is, yeah, it's quite significant. Yeah, maybe one more example if you have one more on you under the tip of your tongue. I think being able to look at the text, the biblical text has allowed me to see the structure of different biblical books and kind of seeing, where do passages begin and end? And is this saying a part of the previous kind of section or is it moving forward to something else? I give an example in James when it talks about, in the end it talks about there's some different examples of what to do in different situations. And so if someone is happy, let them sing songs and so on. If someone is sick, then they should call the elders of the church to come, right? But then later on, It talks about how the prayer is going to help the person who's sick. Then later on, it says the prayer of a righteous person has power, great power as it's working. This is our English, this I'm reading from the ESV, the English translation. As we look at this, one of the things that we start seeing is that, is whether or not, is whether or not the confession of the sins in verse 16, confess your sins to one another, has to do with being sick. and actually it's that, because of the way that the language plays out, that too many discontinuities between the text of verse 15 and the text of verse, 16 and 17 and onward, to make the connection that people are being healed from their sicknesses or their ailments. I'm not saying that there's no physical. There's I'm not saying there's no physical, consequences. of their sin, but it is primarily about praying for the, praying about the result of their sin, which is what, this is why the example of Elijah is so important because Elijah prayed about the consequences of the people's sin. That's why it talks about Elijah's prayer. In any case, structure is important. And when we see how a passage begins and ends, I actually had to look at the manuscripts for this one and if we actually see the earliest manuscripts of James actually start a new paragraph in verse 16. So that's another example of how knowing the biblical languages can help you kind of be able to delineate where thoughts begin and end. Yeah, that's interesting because the Tyndale house edition I just have here, I noticed that there was a new paragraph between 15 and 16. And the NA doesn't do that. Hmm. Yeah, actually, we get very little paragraphing. The earliest manuscripts of James actually start a new paragraph there. Isn't that interesting? It is. It is very interesting. Yeah. So, there's lots of, obviously, that tradition how people have read the text. it helps us maybe sometimes like reading manuscripts helps us understand how people have understood the text, at least in other periods of time where they copied these manuscripts. Yes. And sometimes we have enough manuscripts that we might be able to trace that back to as close to the original source that we can say, okay, maybe probably this is the best way of reading it. So, yeah, that's very interesting. Thank you for those examples. But as mentioned in the beginning here of the podcast, I said that you did your PhD on eschatological approval. Why did you choose that topic and then this letter? When I set out to do a PhD, I was given the advice from people to find something. Well, I mean, to get a PhD, you have to do something that you have to do something that hasn't been done. You have to research something and make, make something and, and do something new. and so as I was kind of poking around and thinking through and talking, talking with folks and it seemed like there's a lot, there's a lot of work on the gospels. There's a lot of work done on Paul. But James is a place where the where in the New Testament where it is relatively under researched, compared to the rest of New Testament. So that's, that's what I started. And I said, you know what? I would probably be able to find a place for me to have a voice here. I know that James is often preached from because James has a lot of commands. So it's actually really easy to be able to. preach a sermon on a James passage because the command is very clear. And so over and over again, James has a lot of imperatives for his hearers that I think can transfer really easily to our church messages. So I said, if James is under-researched and it's often preached from, maybe that's a place where I could have an impact. on the on a more readily more ready impacts on the pulpit and and on the church. Yeah, that's very, that's a good, good thing to, to research. Sometimes I wonder whether my PhD, how although it's on a very important topic as resurrection, I find some of the details, mean, it is very difficult to apply that to the pulpit. Yeah. Obviously it can be done. It just needs to be thinking a little bit more carefully about it. But, but I think that when we do research, we really should do research. thinking about the matters of the church. Yeah, so, but maybe you should explain what escotronological approval actually means. okay eschatological approval is the idea that when a follower of Jesus gets to the end and faces judgment that that God would say you're approved you get the crown of life and that I borrow that from James 1 12 which I argue is the thesis statement of the entire epistle blessed is a man who perseveres or remains steadfast through trial for when he has stood the test or when he has been approved, he will receive the call, which God has promised to those who love him. And that's a key. And so it talks about, it talks about testing and approval. That's the unifying motif in James that over and over again. what we see in James is references to judgment. And every time judgment, every time there's judgment, it's talking about God being the rightful judge. Yeah. And whatever talks about human judgment, it condemns And so every so and it's actually evenly distributed throughout, throughout, throughout James, this idea of judgment. And there's a lot of eschatological material in James. It's not necessarily apocalyptic, meaning it doesn't it doesn't reveal things that will happen in the end times, so to speak. Well, it does some, not much. It's more about this eschatological motivation. for the, like I said, the many different commands in James. And so with all of that in view, it seems like over and over again, the motivation to follow James's words here is when we get to the end and to say, hey, and God says, you're approved. Yeah, that's helpful. it's, yeah, sometimes people think, well, what does eschatological actually means? yeah, it comes from the Greek word for the end. Yes, last, ἔσχατος (eschatos) means last. So these are what's gonna happen in the end. So James is not about giving us life advice. It's not about our current life. It's about what is it gonna take for a follower of Jesus to get to the end and God would say, you're approved and you get the reward. Yeah, exactly. And that leads to the next question I'd to ask is that we have in the beginning of the letter from the outset of letter is talking a lot about perseverance, trials, steadfastness, and that the readers should not lack in wisdom. How does that sort of interrelate with like this kind of this idea of eschatological approval? Well, I mean, one thing that we wanted to make sure that we understand, especially as you mentioned the beginning of James, is that James is written to the 12 tribes of the diaspora. That word, that Greek word διασπορά (diaspora) is talking about people who are outside of their ancestral homeland. And so when you say that, one of the things that we start thinking about is the fact that they're minorities, right? They're people who are different from people around them. And that might give us a hint into the kind of trials and tribulations that they're facing. Because if we look at human nature and we look at cultures across the board, we see that minorities many times are marginalized, discriminated against. They don't have the advantages, the social advantages that people who are in the majority have. And that's, mean, we see this in every culture. so, so what would it, and so, you know, we could, we could talk, we could talk about whether or not, you know, what would it take for them to have a better life in this life? But what James says is he talks about, Hey, this is, this is going to have consequences. This is going to have results and this is going to have this or your motivation is what's going to happen in the next life. And so that's, that's important. As we look at the trials and tribulations that the, that they're facing, if they can, if they can stick through it, if they are persevering, in their commitment, their loyalty to Jesus, then they have a reward in the end. And so, and one of the things that, and one of the things that says, you know, that you, and, know, as you, as you become more and more like Christ, that, you know, that you become, you know, perfect and complete, not lacking anything. And so, then James says, if you do lack something, and if you lack wisdom and you're to need wisdom to, to get through your trials and tribulations, then God is generous. I'm to give you that because ultimately, ultimately we have a God who wants to give us the reward who wants to who wants people to be approved in the end and graciously gives us the formula and the way to do this by following him and and obeying his commands so yeah we all of that all of that is is fitting with this idea of that this end time judgment that the hearers of james and the church gets to and says okay that that God says you are approved. Yeah, that's helpful. I came to think about this diaspora term. I came to think about it, whether it is actually echoing, because we also find it in 1 Peter the same word. But I'm thinking about whether it actually is more echoing what Jesus is talking about in John 15, I think it is, at the end of it, where he talks about that we are not of this world, but we're in this world. are like hated because we follow Jesus and that dynamic that may be one of the reasons why he's talking about the diaspora here as well that we are actually foreigners in this world. I think that there is some overlap there. In terms of especially in, first Peter, where talks about how we're foreigners, like the church is foreigners in this empire. And I think that that speaks against a lot of the political climate in America, by the way, where their hope is in the government. But if the church is gonna be foreigners and so on, that's significant. At the same time, I don't think this that would preclude that this letter of James is written to those who are the 12 tribes in the diaspora. think that, you know, what, what first Peter doesn't mention is the 12 tribes and there's nowhere, there's nowhere in any literature where, uh, where the church is referred to as the 12 tribes. And so we're going to take that. If we're to take that at face value, then we're saying, okay, these are, these are Jews. These are Jews who are following Jesus, who are outside of Palestine, outside of the land. And that's important because as we look at this, we know that the minorities, look, regardless of whether, regardless of how they're minorities, because, know, first Peter talks about that, they're minorities and they face discrimination. They have social disadvantages of that. But I do hold the view that these are Jews. And I think the most compelling thing for me is in James 1.27, where it talks about how, where it talks about this, this true religion, or I like to say piety is, is to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. Orphans and widows are actually two thirds of a very familiar Old Testament, Old Testament formula. for those, because you're supposed to help those who are marginalized in your society. The third third are the foreigners, the sojourners. And the fact that James omits that suggests that these hearers of his letter are themselves the foreigners. There's other evidence in James, for example, the mention of synagogue and the fact that over the... the appeals to the Shema and over and over again. So I'm actually very convinced that this letter is written specifically to Jewish followers of Jesus who are outside of their homeland. Yeah, that makes good sense. Where that is not as clear in one peter for example. And there's actually not, it's actually not completely conclusive in first Peter that it's talking about Gentiles as well. So, but I think it's a lot clearer in James. Yeah, I think maybe one Peter is a mixed congregation we don't know for certain, but it's more generally applied. So I don't think that we actually can know for certain, but I think you make good arguments for why this might be predominantly Jews. I just wanted to a thought that came to my head about like Jesus is saying we are foreigners in this world. That's why. So I think, you know, if, the church is indeed supposed to be taking on this identity of foreigners in this world, then I think we have a lot to learn from a letter that was written to people who were foreigners in their own societies, that they are in the diaspora away from their ancestral homeland, but in a place that they call home, they're treated, they probably treat it differently and they probably don't have the advantages that those who have, who are in the majority do. And think that the church, the modern church has a lot to learn from that. Definitely. moving on to your sort of like thesis claim. In your work you say that James 1, you already mentioned it already, that James 1.12 is the central opening of the letter and it highlights the concerns for eschatological approval in the letter. Why is that? Sorry to interrupt the episode, but if you're enjoying the content, please consider subscribing and leaving a like. It really helps the algorithm and helps the podcast grow. Thank you for your support and now back to the episode. moving on to your sort of like thesis claim. In your work you say that James 1, you already mentioned it already, that James 1.12 is the central opening of the letter and it highlights the concerns for eschatological approval in the letter. Why is that? I might just read it. I have a translation here. Blessed is a man who has endured trials for whom has been tested to receive the wreath of life or the crown of life which has been promised to those who love him. Yes, that's James 112. And how does that actually fit into being the main concern of the letter? I make a case one that structurally that there's actually echoes of this throughout in different places. For example, what we see at the very beginning is talking about, as you mentioned earlier, talking about having trials and that the testing of your faith produces perseverance and that testing is related to the word that's there for being, that's the word that I use for. approval in verse 12, it's also mentions that being steadfast to trial. And so it's pointing to that, it's pointing to that, that statement there. We see in 1.25, we also see the, a different form of the word for, for perseverance. And so that's, that's παραμένω (parameno) and that's there as well. And then also the idea of the, the idea of being blessed, μακάριος (makarios). What we see is that, is that that actually points back to verse 12 as well. And so what we see is what I call a double inclusio, where we see that James 1.12 is a hinge point for the first, for the prologue of the epistle, which is kind of previewing what's going to be in the rest of the letter. Then we have at the end, before the final exhortations in James, we actually see more echoes of James 1.12. That's where it talks about, we see the steadfastness of Job and how the Lord was merciful in the end. And so we see that if we take that seriously as an inclusio, then things in between are talking about what does it look like? for you to be blessed in the end. And then over and over again, actually, in the intervening passages, we see that the motivation for following all these things is the eschaton, that we get to judgment. And so, again, one way I was looking at it was structural. And again, this is another benefit of knowing the original languages, right? Looking at it structural and saying, okay, we see these terms repeated over and over again. that they don't get, they don't come out in translation. But then we see that we also see thematic over your suit through James. Does it fit? know, kind of like Cinderella with the slipper. Does it fit? If it doesn't fit, then we got to try something else, but it fit. And that's really what I continue to continue to go with for my research. Yeah. Yeah, and how do you see it unfold in the letter? So we start seeing all these commands. James has the highest concentration of imperative forms in the New Testament. And so what we see over and over again, and these commands, the motivation for the commands is judgment. So for example, in the beginning, we see at the beginning of the body, we see don't show favoritism to the rich. And then that... There's a transition point at the end of that passage that talks about judgment is without mercy to one who has not shown mercy and the mercy triumphs over judgment. So we actually already see the motivation of judgment. Then we move on and it's the passage about faith and deeds. And it says, you know, what would it look like for you? What does saving faith look like? You know, when someone looks at your life and says, okay, this person has saving faith. So we see that, we see the judgment coming in again. Then we see in chapter three about taming the tongue. Don't be a teacher because you're gonna have a greater judgment or talking about how if you don't control your tongue, it's associated with the fires of hell and so on. All that to say, we go through James and we see over and over again that the motivation for these commands is eschatological judgment. And it's not even, like I said, it's not even good advice for this life. It's because, hey, because we have a judgment coming in the end. And then finally, all that eschatological language reaches its peak at the end in chapter five, where it says the judge is standing at the door. So, you know, and, you know, there's an interspersed throughout James, things like, who are you to judge your neighbor? Because you know what? Who's supposed to judge you? Who's supposed to judge you and your neighbor is gonna be God. The judge, the true judge. Yeah, so it is quite a prominent theme within the letter. Quite a lot. Yeah, a lot of judgment. I feel like anyone who has read through James, they feel like, Yes, I agree. Yeah, but then one might ask, Jesus died and rose to give us salvation through faith alone. And this means that believers have been approved in Jesus. But why is there so much concern about eschatological approval in James then? I think so. So what we see, especially in especially in the epistles is talking about the the fact that the the the death and resurrection of Christ and our faith, our our faith or faithfulness with Christ is is going to it has made us so that we are so that we are righteous. At the same time, we also have language throughout scripture saying that What's going to be, what's going to count is whether or not you follow these commands over and over again, especially what we see James, we see James quoting the, quoting, and I believe quoting the words of Jesus, especially the Sermon on the Mount, where it says over and over again, that you will get rewarded if you, if you have, if you follow these things and you obey these things. And I think that, I think that people are thinking that this seems to conflict. Right? I think what's missing though, is what's missing in that whole equation is the role of the Holy Spirit. That those who follow Jesus have the Spirit. And yes, we are declared righteous, but the Spirit, we can't be saved without the Spirit. And the Spirit's just changing us so that in the end, we are obeying because of that. And in the end, when we get to judgment, we will be approved because of the Spirit. So... You know, people ask me, James seems to be devoid of grace. And I'm like, well, what we're seeing, big picture, is that it's all by grace. That it's only by the Spirit we'll be able to do these things anyway. So it's all because of the indwelt, the indwelt God in us, that we're able to do these things in the first place. So it's all by grace. Yeah, and that is probably why he's talking about the kind of faith in chapter three that just acknowledges God's existence, but not actually Him as Lord. And that is where I feel like sometimes Luther may have misunderstood what he is actually trying to say. Oh, you're talking about Martin Luther. I think Luther, I've been reading some more literature about how Luther is famous or infamous for the way that he saw James. And one of the things that some of these authors who are pointing to the primary literature are saying is that Luther, he, later on in his life, actually had a much more positive view on James later on. So nobody is beyond redemption. Yes, yeah. think he also, my dogmatic teacher, did mention that he changed his mind, but he also wasn't the only one that could decide what could be in scripture or not. it's interesting, actually. I'm not super aware of how he changed his mind on James, because I've not been reading that particular part of Luther's scholarship. So obviously it was in the beginning of his career was very much like focused on his, his like tower experience and what he read in Romans. He was like a big fan of, of, of Luther Luther was a big fan of Paul, sorry. And I think that that Luther might've had the same experience as many of us. We've gone right through James and like, what is James talking about? and then Yeah, and what are your thoughts on that? What is that experience and how do we deal with that? Can you repeat the question, Daniel? So it is more like the relationship when we read through chapter three and we come maybe with the same kind of like reading of Romans. Yes. When we come to reading James chapter three and then we get confused because it seems to contrast each other. Do mean James chapter 2 with the faith and deeds? Yes, yes, yeah, sorry. I mixed up the chapters. think one of the key things to understanding that is to understand what the word justify means. Because I make the case that James and Paul actually use it differently. And the word is δικαιόω (decaioō). And this is another good reason for them to know the biblical languages, everybody. But we see actually in the way that Jesus and the Septuagint use δικαιόω (decaioō) has to do with declaring somebody declaring somebody righteous based on the evidence. I'll give you an example. Jesus said, for by your words, you will be justified and by your words, you will be condemned. So that's the word that both James and Paul are using. But James and Paul seem to use it in a different way. James is really talking about how we're looking at evidence and looking at an ultimate verdict. at the time of judgment in the end and looking at someone's life and saying, hey, this is justification, looking at that. Now, Paul seems to actually use it in a way that is different than the Septuagint and different than Jesus. I think a lot of people are saying, why do Paul and James differ on the way they use justification? I think we should be asking why do Paul and Jesus use the word differently? I think that carries a lot more weight. and so, but actually Paul actually uses the word, justify, be justified and actually in the, in the passive, in Romans chapter two, where he says, it is not the hearers of the law who are, who are righteous, but the doers of the law who will be justified. And so actually Paul can be read on both, both, both definitions in this way. And so I think, think we just need to be able to see how, how are these two authors using this word? And so when we see that, fills out our understanding of what James is writing and what Paul is writing. Paul is talking about people who enter into relationship with God. And he's talking about, he's talking about the beginning. and James is talking about people who are faithful, are faithfully following Jesus and what's going to happen to them in the end. so if, if Paul is a doctor, he would be a pediatrician. If James is a doctor, he'd be in geriatrics because he's talking about how life matures. And so I think these two men are talking about something different. And I think, in the end, I think they would both agree. They will both agree that, you know, it is it is by faith. But in the end, in the end, faith, saving faith shows itself through good deeds. I don't want to get into the weeds of I don't want to get into the weeds of this, but Paul and James actually actually using the word ἔργα (erga) differently as well. That's the word that it works in Paul and deeds in James. And so Paul's talking about works of the law. James is actually talking about good deeds. He's saying, hey, are you helping the poor? If a poor person comes to you needing food and clothing, what are you going to do? And so that's good deeds, which is what Jesus was all about too. And so I think we need to put all of that into context. Yeah, and I think there is ultimately no difference between what they're actually saying. Also the way that is it in 1.18 in James, where he talks about the seed that gives salvation. The implanted word, James continued. that's right. That's how it's phrased. Yes, so there's actually quite a lot of agricultural imagery in James. Yeah, we, yes, most of us not grown up on farms. No. we haven't and I think it'd be good to hear some from people who have and say hey what you know what does this mean when you say that when you hear this so hmm Yeah, so my dad is actually a farmer. He was his first education then become a missionary. So I've seen a little bit farming in my childhood, but I don't know if I understand it well enough. But think what a farmer might think if I should try to put myself in the mind of a farmer, is that the seed has been put in the ground. And it's now growing up. that is what's safe as we have been planted. That is what Christ is doing. And he is doing that work, but he's also doing the work of the growing. When the seed is growing up of the ground, that's not the seed itself as such, because it needs nutrition and it needs all the things around it. And there is actually, I think actually there is a part of the seed that dies in order to make the seed grow. And so when Jesus, for example, says that it needs to die, he is actually talking about something we first discovered in the 20th century, that there is a little piece of the seed that needs to die in order to give life to the rest. Yeah, and we talk about that as if it's a new discovery. All the time. But I wonder. Yeah. So. Yeah. and if you look at it that way, it makes better sense how James, I think, talks about these things. Yes, yes. So. It really is, as you said in beginning, it's the Holy Spirit who does the whole thing. And Paul can say the same thing. He talks like, work on your salvation with fear and trembling. Because it is God who is creating the will to work for his goodwill. We are God's workmanship, in Christ to do good work. Yes. Yeah, that's another one. So, they're fundamentally not too different. this one could maybe be a very long one because it's a thing I'm very interested in. This one is quite interesting to me. We'll see. So how does joy and suffering relate to eschatological approval in general? Joy and suffering, think all of the things that we see in James lose their meaning if we don't consider the eschaton. So when it says, consider it pure joy, when you face trials of many kinds, is not, joy is not the first word that would come to our minds when we talk about trials and tribulations. But James grounds that and saying, hey, in the end, you're gonna be rewarded. for that. And that's where the joy is. And that's why it seems like there's so many echoes of the Sermon on the Mount. For example, it starts off in talking about the Beatitudes and all of these things that seem to be marginalized and not valued in this life are people who are blessed. And so where's that blessing? It's in the end. We're looking forward to it. That's the motivation. We're looking forward to the end. Yes. both joy and suffering, if we put into perspective of what's gonna happen when the judge comes, when the second coming, that would keep us motivated to persevere through suffering and to have joy in spite or in the face of our suffering. Yeah, yeah, think there is... So this is a project of mine I really wanted to have deeper into. That was what I worked on in my MPhil as well, like joy and suffering. But look for me, for Paul there is an element of that he can rejoice in the suffering, not because of the sufferings themselves, but because he knows that God is using them. to make the gospel clearer to people. Yes. And in the end that has eternal consequences. Yes, exactly. So it's a perspective on your own suffering. You know, think our churches need to talk about this more, that if you choose to follow Jesus, it's the way of suffering. Jesus says, you must deny yourself. You must die to yourself. And people are going to persecute you and people are gonna hate you. That's part of following Jesus. But we put our hope in that because one, it's the truth, but two, it's worth it. We see over and over again that in the end, it'll all be worth it. Yeah, very much so. I think we are actually too much children of our age in that regard. Actually, we live in a very hedonistic age that seeks pleasure. I think that pleasure in and itself is not a problem. And it's a biblical idea. It's something God has given us. Qoheleth talks about that. the preacher, talks about like there is nothing more in there, there's no more joy than for the person to enjoy the fruit of his labor. So that's not the point, but we have sort of like exalted pleasure and comfort to the position of God in our culture. And if we encounter any suffering, then everything is bad. So joy and suffering. Yeah, but yeah, so how does James speak into or speak against that kind of like mindset? If you have given that any thought? I know I sound like I'm repeating myself, but it seems like over and over again, the hope has to be in judgment in the end. And so you see this dynamic of the rich versus the poor, for example. And we see, hey, it's the poor who were chosen by God. to receive the inheritance and in Paul's condemnation of the rich who are abusing their poor workers, we're seeing again this idea of judgment that they're gonna be punished in the end. And that it's the poor, the lowly who will be lifted up. And so James actually comes to a point where his condemnation is. pretty is pretty stark against his hearers and he says you're you are adulteresses then he says humble yourself the gut humble yourselves because there's grace for you if you repent and so again it has to do with where your hope is is your hope in this life or is your hope in in eternity Yeah, yeah. And that should reflect the way you do business, how you treat your employees, how you... Yeah, yeah. How you do anything, really. Reflect that. If someone comes to your house who has no clothes, then you can't just let them go. You're thinking about them. Yeah. Yes, that makes very good sense to me. Yeah. And then we might just circle around the speech thing because it seems to be a big deal for James as well and how that relates to eschatological approval I think the way we use our tongue, I mean, what we see in James is the way we use our tongue is going to be evaluated. And whether or not we see it now, we see it later. James says, who are you to speak against your brother? In chapter four. so there is a, sorry, James actually appeals to creation with this and he says, So the tongue was made to bless the Lord and bless each other, and yet you're using it to curse each other. And you shouldn't be using it for two different things. And you should be using it for a single thing, which is to bless. And so that's why James at the end of chapter one says, you know, part of true religion, and that word I think is translated religion. But I think it has to do with piety or or commitment to following Jesus. has to do with, know, bridling your tongue. You know, make sure that you watch what you say. Yeah, I very much agree. also, to a person in the ancient world, religion would mean piety. It might not necessarily mean piety in the sense of what God wants us to have. They did awful things in the name of piety in the ancient world. But I think that that is a correct understanding of... of that word or religion. Religion is to do with piety. Yeah, so, yeah, and James talks about using your tongue. And this is why he warns people, don't be so quick to become a teacher, because you're gonna be judged on what you say. For those of you who are watching and listening to this podcast, you know, if you know the biblical languages, you are in a position to become a teacher. And there's gonna be there's gonna be a different standard for you as you teach people the word of God. But there's also greater rewards for you too, as you are part of the disciple making process. so, steward that really, really well. It's really easy in today's day age with technology for us to position ourselves as teachers. But if you hold that with a lot of reverence and continually in prayer asking the Lord, hey, how do I teach people? then your attitude will be, hey, I need to submit to God. And so don't let it be a deterrence to teaching people, but just know that there is a greater standard and that you need to steward that really well. Yeah, and that sounds like something that's a we like to have a practical application for listeners and viewer in the end of every podcast. as you it sounds like you're already beginning to do that. Can you give some practical application or what escatological approval in James might help? Something some one of our listeners or viewers. One thing I would say is to know the word of God really well. As you know it well, and this is not just reading it, but understanding it and being able to say, I need to use this, as James says, as a mirror for my life. And I just can't walk away from it, not doing anything about it. But you know the word of God well, you follow it. and you submit to it, that's going to be key. And that's, again, one of the reasons why we should learn the biblical languages, because it helps us to know the word of God even better. You know, we have translations and that's great. You know, some of the best scholars have worked on our translations. But we can know God even better as we study the word of God more. so I want to highlight a, I want to highlight a, a resource that I actually worked on. this is the, this is the Greek New Testament. This is the Greek New Testament, Tyndale House Edition, guided annotating edition. And what this is, is that, we have the Greek text and what I was doing, what I was doing when I was in seminary, when I was working on learning Greek was that I would take my Bible software and I would copy and paste the biblical text onto my word processor and I would print it out because I wanted to, I wanted it to be double spaced and I want to have wide margins so I can write in all my notes. And after a while, I said, after I was doing this over and over again, said, why don't they print something like this? And so, and so I actually, so Daniel and I spent time at Tyndale House. I got to know the editor, the editors for this, for the, for the Tyndale House edition. And I went to Dirk Jongkind and I said, Hey, Would you be open to publishing an annotating, a journaling edition of the Greek New Testament that you're providing? And I would add value by having an introduction written by scholars, scholars who love the church. And so each New Testament book has a introduction that's written by a scholar who is very accomplished and very able to handle the biblical text. but they also love Jesus and they want to serve the church. So they kind of walk us through things like, if you read this, Paul likes to use participles here, or Peter, look for alliteration with Peter's words, or look for the ways that this word repeats over and over again. Things like that. Things that we have wise guides to guide us through the biblical texts as well. And then actually one of the big questions I kept asking, what I was being asked was, what's the difference between the Tyndale House edition and the Nestle-Aland or the UBS edition? And we actually have for each of the each of the New Testament books, a chart showing the differences. And so and so what what this is, it's the it's the readers edition. So it actually has rare vocabulary at the bottom and a footnote. So you don't have to slow yourself down by looking upwards in a a in a lexicon. So what this replaces is a Greek New Testament, a a journal and a lexicon, three books in one. And so you can bring this somewhere and work on your reading of the text and be able to have some guidance on how to read the Greek texts as well. And so this is coming out of my desire to serve the church and for us to be able to know the word of God well and be able teach that to other people and also so that we will be approved in the end. Yeah, that's a wonderful way to end. Thank you for joining me Daniel on this episode. It was great to be here, Daniel. Encouraged by your podcast. Thank you and God bless to you in your ministry and as servant for the church. But before you go, if you enjoyed this podcast and you want more people to see it, please subscribe and leave a like. It really helps us create more episodes like this one. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Have a great day and I'll see you in the next one