David Talks about family law regarding solo dads custody

David Pisarra, Chief Executive of DAD's Law School,

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hi everyone, welcome back to Solo Parenting. I've got another amazing guest. Uh his name is David Pisera. He's the executive chief of dad's law school. And he's also spent over 25 years in family law helping dads in custody and divorce cases. He's also founded the Union of Dads to support dads representing themselves in the family court. And he teaches them how to present their case, handle evidence, and building parenting plans that could actually work for the kids. He's a strong guest for my audience because the solo parents are often carrying the legal stress and emotional weight at the same time. I can he can bring custom room, sorry, courtroom and ready for advice that fits your practical encouraging vibe, especially for dads or co-parenting parents trying to stay active in their child's life. Welcome, David. How are you today?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I'm great, Jennifer. Thank you for having me on. I'm really looking forward to sharing the message.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Yes. I think a lot of dads out there um need the advice, but too are maybe too scared to reach out or anything. So hope this helps. So how did you get into this uh law school and teaching dads?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Well, it's sort of the the next phase of my career. I started off 27 years ago wanting to do business law. I wanted to go be like a little Gordon Gecko, 1990s, you know, striped shirt, white collar, let's go captain of the industry guy. Yeah, and my law partner wanted to do family law. Okay. My immediate reaction was like, oof, gross.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

And I would go to the Rotary Club and the Chamber of Commerce and I would talk about business, and no one wanted to talk to me. But as soon as I mentioned family law, all of a sudden it's can you help me with my divorce? I gotta get out my child support lowered, lower my alimony. And all of a sudden, all of my partner's calendar was so full, it spilled into my calendar. Oh I found myself going to court fighting for men and women.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And about five years in, we decided, like, okay, this is getting a little stressful. How do we streamline it? And we went to men's family law and we focused solely on men. And about 10 years ago, I saw what was going on in the family courts where most dads can't afford lawyers. Yeah, most dads are running out of money, but they don't know what the heck they're doing. So they're going into court, they're getting destroyed, they're walking out with no custody or limited custody. Yeah, and they think the system is horrible and against them, and they don't know what to do, and no one's supporting them. So, five years ago, we started dad's law school. And the program is designed to give dads the tools they need so they can go into court and be confident and capable and advocate for themselves. Okay. Teach them the basics of what child custody is, the literally the language of legal custody, physical custody, how that operates.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

How to argue to a judge for why you should have more time with your kids, what to give to the judge in terms of this is what I know about my kid. Because oftentimes dads walk into court and they're like, I'm a great dad, I'm only 50% custody. I love my kids. And mom walks in with you know, three encyclopedias worth of everything she's done right for the kids, and everything dad's done wrong about the kids and what he doesn't know and how he's not capable. Yeah, and the judge is left with this balancing act of I got one sheet of paper over here, and I got an entire library over here. I'm gonna believe mom. And then dad walks out with nothing or almost nothing. Yeah, no, that's true, it's true. Yeah, you know, and and and men are just like, I don't know what to do, the system's against me. And so we started dad's law school, where it's online courses that they can take at their own pace because they're broken up into modules, so they don't have to sit down and you know, men hate to sit generally, yeah. And so like they're not gonna sit for a two-hour course to learn how to do discovery, yeah. They'll do it in five and ten-minute increments, which is the way the program is designed. Okay, and so we've got discovery, we've got evidence, we have contempt, we have objections, and it's not gonna turn you into a lawyer, but it's gonna give you enough information to be able to walk into court and defend yourself and advocate for your rights, and that's the goal. And so once we had the video courses, it was like, Oh, dads need a little bit more support. So we created the VIP program, which is all of our video courses. It's my book, the dad's childcast the action plan, and there's a companion book on child support, and then it's weekly every week. I go live for two hours, and dads can come in and they can ask me questions about how to operate in court, how to present their case, how to do discovery. And so, what we found is that the dads who show up for the weekly group coaching are getting the education they need, but they're also finding the community that they've missed. Okay, so when a family breaks up, dad's lost his wife or girlfriend, he's lost regular access to his kids, he's probably been kicked out of the house, has to start over again, probably lost a whole host of friends, his whole social group. Maybe his own family's been turned against him. So he doesn't know what to do, and so that's why we started the VIP program. So the dads have community both online on our weekly group coaching and through a private WhatsApp group where they can communicate with each other via text throughout the days during the week.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Okay, okay, awesome. Actually, I've got so many questions running into my head, and I'm trying to think which one I should ask you first. But so, um, first of all, let's go backtrack a little bit about the books.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

So, where could somebody get the books and how do they get a hold of so my books are available on the website, dadslawschool.com. There's a bookstore in the upper top menu. You can also get them on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

If you want a signed copy that's addressed to you, go to the website. We send them out, I sign them, and you'll get it in about a week. If you just want to get it immediately, you can also go to the website because it comes with an audiobook version. Yeah, because a lot of dads don't like to read. Yeah, but they need the information and they'll listen. They'll listen in the car, they'll listen when they're mowing the lawn, they'll listen when they're on their treadmill at the gym. It's a great opportunity for them to get the tools that they need so that they can fight for their kids.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Okay. Is there anything about like support or uh because custody is in there, but support maybe for the child or the spouse, or like where alimony or anything like that that you talk about?

SPEAKER_02 7:07

So I don't really deal with alimony or spousal support at this time because we're really focusing on dads and child custody. Okay, it's really become like our main mission is to reach as many dads as possible. Okay, because that's the real hurt that I'm seeing in our society. That's the real lack that's going on because you got all these kids who are being raised without a father. And we know that when you're raised without a father, you're more likely to engage in criminal activity, you're more likely to fall into substance abuse, have early onset of sexual activity, which leads to all kinds of other problems, lower self-esteem. It causes problems if a father is not in a child's life.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, I I totally agree with that. Like there is dads that are got the moms can be really nasty in cust custody, and then, like you said, they've got encyclopedias coming up what the dad has done wrong, even though the mother could be the one that's doing all this, but the father is the victim in this.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

So one of the things I say is frequently every accusation is an admission. Okay, and we know that that's true, like with the borderline personalities, the really crazy ones. Yeah, because everything they're accusing you of doing, if you actually look at it objectively, it's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Okay, okay. So, and like dad's law school, is it uh able to can regular people be able to afford it? It's not like the fees are quite high, so that somebody going through a custody like won't not be able to afford it or anything.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Absolutely, you know. We the book, Dad's Shotcussy Action Plan. Yeah, you can listen, you can listen to the audiobook for free. Yeah, it's on Apple iTunes. Okay, the book itself is only $45 on my website. Okay, like half that on Amazon, thanks to Amazon. Yeah, um, the program comes with either our family court battle pack, which is our videos and the books, yeah, and that's a one-time fee. Okay, for the guys that want the ongoing support in our VIP program, it's under $300 a month. Okay, okay. Which, you know, if you think about it, $300 is probably one hour of your lawyer's time. Exactly. You're getting me for eight hours a month, yeah, plus all the videos, plus the support of all the other guys.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, that's yeah, that's awesome. So, um, so it's your website, I guess, is dadslawschool.com.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

And then uh they could reach out to you there. So if they log on, is there any other kind of social media or anything else that oh we've we've got a lot of social media.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

It's dad's law school on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube. Yeah, we have about 5,300 videos that are out answering all kinds of questions from dads. You know, how do I deal with this? How do I deal with that? What's going on here? We also have our dad's law school podcast, which is on iTunes, okay, which in the first season I answer the 50 most frequently asked questions. So if you just go to iTunes or Spotify and type in dad's law school, yeah, you can download season one, which is 10 episodes, okay. And they have the freak the 50 most frequently asked questions.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Okay. Um, so if moms are listening to this and they find that maybe vice versa, that they're suffering, they're not going to be able to get the custody because maybe they're not making uh quite high income, or the dad's kind of bashing them. Could moms reach out to you as well, or is it just only strictly dads?

SPEAKER_02 10:47

So moms certainly reach out to us. The you know, bonus moms reach out, a lot of bonus moms are contacting me because they're watching the man that they love be damaged to a custody battle. Yeah, moms who are going through this themselves certainly can buy my books, certainly can watch the videos. We don't have women in the VIP program. Okay, and the reason why is because I want to make it a safe space for the dads to be able to share their feelings, to share their emotions. And you know as well as I do, the minute a woman walks into a room, a man's entire demeanor changes, he's gonna start peacocking a little bit, doesn't want to get vulnerable, doesn't want to admit what's going on, doesn't want to cry, and we need to have that safe space for that.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Okay, so this law in particular, because I know you're in the United States, so does that just apply there only, or is it just kind of that you cover kind of laws just around uh like say Canada, US, Europe?

SPEAKER_02 11:47

We actually have we have an international membership. We have had men from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Brazil, Czech Republic, the UK. Um, because the problem is the global problem of dads not seeing their kids, yeah. And and what we're teaching is strategy and procedure. So we're teaching dads how do you position yourself when you're talking to a judge? What do you need to tell a judge to show to that judge that you are a great dad beyond just I'm a great dad?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Okay, wow, that's amazing. That's a lot of stuff. Like, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

I know dads do get the brunt of where they don't get the custody, but and they're amazing dads, like it's just but the mom sometimes I'm sorry to say is a prick, but well, the way I say it is this you know, there's a lot of good moms out there, and yeah, and and I'm not gonna say that there aren't. Yeah, and I say that you there are a lot of bad moms, and you know you have a bad mom if you have to go to court to get custody. Yeah, good moms don't keep good dads away from their kids.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yes, I know there was uh a story back where there was an executive mom where being executive, she did everything possibly she could to control the child so that the father does not get the custody um, considering that the father that I knew was an amazing dad, but just had no nothing whatsoever support or seeing the child, and they actually miss the child, you know, and and you feel sorry for that because there's nothing that they can do. Is there anything in particular in the law that the fathers could do besides like you're teaching them?

SPEAKER_02 13:45

The biggest thing dads need to do is learn how to advocate for themselves. You know, there's tons of resources for moms on how to advocate for yourself. There's yeah, tons of legal aid and women's shelters and domestic violence shelters that all help. Yeah, there's almost none of that for dads. Oh so that's why we're filling this need, this niche for dads, because they have to have the resources because dads can advocate for their kids, they can go into court, yeah, say why they're available, give the court an actual schedule, give them a map, show the judge that you're an active engaged father, and the judges will come back with generally fairly equitable orders. We had a client this week called me up. He's like, Dave, dave, dave, I'm so happy. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I just got the orders in from the court. I didn't get everything I wanted, but I got about 90%.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Oh, wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

I and so he ended up with six weeks or six days out of the week. I mean, six days out of the 14 days, and mom got eight. So he's just under a 50-50 custody.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Okay, okay, that's amazing. Is do you have ever like a story maybe you can share with the listeners about where you know, like things didn't turn out first, and then uh after they reached out to you, it was more successful? Anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

That we most dads come to us after they've had their first loss in court. Okay, they they've already lost that first round, and now they're coming in going, How do I change this? How do I fix this? How do I claw back time is the phrasing they use. Yeah, and it's like, okay, here's what we need to do, here's how you present yourself to the judge. You know, a lot of times people think your first impression is when you walk in and the judge sees you, yeah, and that's not true. Yeah, the first impression is in your paperwork, yeah. The first impression the judge is gonna have of you is what did you submit to that judge to be reviewed? And that's why in my book, one of the parts that I think is the most important is we've got an example of a declaration, and it's it's something that actually shows to the judge who I am, why I'm a great dad, yeah, and what I'm asking for. And the reason why this is important is because dads can then see, like, oh, this is the sort of stuff I need to be telling the judge. I don't really know all that stuff, Dave. Not a problem. We have in this book a kid inventory, it's 123 questions. Oh, okay. You're not gonna know all 123 answers. Yeah, that's okay. If you answer 20, 40 of these, and can then give that information to the judge. Yeah, the judge now understands the depth of your knowledge and your engagement with your kids, and you know this information, you just don't know you need to put it on paper and give it to the judge, and that's why the book is so important, that's why the VIP program is so important, because we're teaching dads how to argue and advocate for themselves with the judge.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Okay, awesome. Do you ever find like having a case where uh the child only wants to stay with the dad and not the mom? Like, have you ever come across anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

We we've had those, we've had lots of those over the years. In 27 years, I've had a couple thousand cases.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yeah, I mean, we've we've dealt with a lot of people over the years, and and the reality is dads are great parents because dads bring a very different parenting skill. Moms are awesome in the very beginning when a baby needs to be breastfed and nurtured and coddled, and all of the important things that moms do in the very beginning of a child's life. Later in life, when a child needs to learn how to explore, how to overcome adversity, how to work through fears, how to work through obstacles. That's one of the things dads bring to parenting. Yeah, is they bring that sense of exuberance and sense of excitement. That's why dads are so important. It's not supposed to be an either or. It's supposed to be a yes and yes, mom's important, and dad's important.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah. Oh wow, this is amazing. Do you want to share anything else that maybe the listeners, like or especially the dads, can use as a tip?

SPEAKER_02 18:24

The most important thing a dad needs to know going into court is if you've got a stack of text messages and emails and you want to prove to the judge that mom's doing something or that you've been involved, you need to know how to actually get that evidence in front of a judge. Okay, and what happens is most people walk into court and they've got you know 200 emails and 300 text messages, and I'm gonna prove that they're gatekeeping, and I've I've got all the evidence to show what's going on. And they walk out of court, and the judge hasn't looked at any of it because they didn't know how to actually get that one piece of evidence in front of the judge so the judge would pay attention to it. Okay, and one of the reasons this book has and that I teach all the time is how to actually get an exhibit, which is a text message or an email, and turn it into evidence because the goal is it has to be admitted into evidence for a judge to rely on it. Okay, it's a very simple process. You just take it and say, Your Honor, I'd like to mark and identify this email or this text message as plaintiffs one, yeah, or petitioners one. Now you've marked and identified it. Now you lay a foundation. I know this is her email address, it was addressed to me. This is a true and correct copy of it. The judge then asks the other side if there's any objection to it being admitted. The other side will probably say no objection. Okay, and then the judge says, Okay, we're gonna move this into evidence. Yeah, and now you have something, it's literally that simple. Oh, wow, okay. But people don't know how to do that, and so judges will often be like, Sir, you didn't prove your case, I've got no evidence, and you're saying, but I've got all these text messages, yeah. But none of them were admitted, I've got all these pictures, yeah, but none of them were admitted, and so if you can just do that simple little thing, but dramatically improve your chances of getting what you ask for.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Okay, uh, have you ever sat in a case uh courtroom at a case where it's custody and you find that the judge, whether it's male or female, um, is more lenient than the dad? Like, or is it are they both the same? Because sometimes, like, I find when you're going into like criminal cases or like harassment or something, sometimes women judges are more softer than men, I find. So, what is your uh thing on that? What do you think that you know?

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Every judge has their own bias, every judge has their own life experience, and and the reason why lawyers are helpful is they know the judges and they know which way they're gonna lean. Okay, and so when you know which way they're gonna lean, now you can position your arguments in that way. Okay, okay, and so I've had judges who were incredibly hard on women, yeah, and I've had judges who are incredibly hard on men, and I've had female judges and male judges do both of those, and it literally is just the judge's own life experience and bias, yeah, and the presentation of the individual parties.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Okay, wow, that's amazing. All right, thank you so much for coming on and explaining. I would love to have you back on for a different maybe topic that absolutely could you could help us for our listeners to enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

You know, Jennifer, I would love to come back on. I I know that uh Canada has a lot of new changes in their domestic violence laws. Yeah, we're seeing the same thing in the states and we're seeing the same thing globally. So that's a big topic that we would I would love to come on and talk to you about some sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

That would be awesome. So thank you for coming on. Um, any last words that you want to maybe let our listeners know and then you want to share with them?

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Absolutely. I yeah, I just want to reiterate that dads can win, dads can prepare, dads can go in and get a judge, give them the time that they want and that their kids deserve. And if you want help with that, you should check out dadslawschool.com, where we've got both books and videos and monthly support groups for you to help you win in court.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Okay, so that's your website.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

But if there were like an email or something that they can reach you out as well, or I guess the best way is just go to the go to the website, you can contact me there, or go to social media because I've got a lot of TikToks and a lot of Instagrams.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Okay, awesome. Thank you for coming on, David, and explaining. And I'll definitely be having you on again and talking about uh other stuff that we could cover.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Great. Thank you, Jennifer. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

You're welcome. All right, everyone. That was David. So any single dads out there that are suffering or they don't know how to deal with the laws, you know, like David said, there's a book out there, and if you want, uh reach out to him, he's all over social media, and you can also reach out to him at dadslawschool.com. He'll definitely be able to help you there. And if you need anything else, you know, you want to reach out to me, you can reach out to me at jennifergill68 at gmail.com. I'll be help, I can help you as well. And there's some mums out there that thinking oh, this is only for dads. No, it's it is typically for dads, but you know, like you can reach out as well and maybe get some suggestions from David that can help you. And also, I just wanted to let you know that I've got a stand store link uh provided at the bottom. If you need to join my email and get newsletters on there, for especially for mums, being I'm a solo mom as well. So until the next podcast, I will see you next time and have a great day. Bye for now.