The Right Questions with James Victore
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The Right Questions with James Victore
Episode 69: Chris Do
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What does it take to turn a shy, invisible kid into a creative leader with a global footprint?
I sit down with Chris Do to trace the human story behind the brand: immigrant roots, schoolyard fights, and the quiet hours that taught him logic, ethics, and the courage to stand up. From a disciplinarian father who solved problems with questions to a mother who drafted by day and painted by night, Chris learned to blend order and expression long before the internet learned his name.
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I have been lucky to spend time and chat with someone who I consider a mentor and a friend. Chris Doe is someone who doesn't just talk about creative work. He talks about survival. He's built businesses, platforms, communities, and he's helped almost a generation of creatives stop apologizing for wanting more than just good work. But what interests me isn't what he's built. What interests me is who he had to become to build that. I'm interested in the kid behind the man, behind the confidence. I'm interested in the pressure behind the clarity and the cost behind the leverage. So this isn't a conversation about tips or tactics, and certainly not about strategy. It's a conversation about origins and about fear, about what shapes us and what we choose to leave behind. Friends, I want to introduce you to Chris Doe. So let's just uh let's just jump into this. Let's do it. Chris, it is a real pleasure to have you here, dude. Thank you. Um and uh we're gonna jump right into this.
SPEAKER_00:Let's do it, James.
SPEAKER_01:First question is the first question I ask everybody. Chris Doe, what made you weird as a kid?
SPEAKER_02:How long is this conversation? It's gonna be a long list. Let's go, baby. Okay. Um, as a kid growing up in the 80s in in the valley in Silicon Valley, uh, as an immigrant, refugee from Vietnam, I most definitely did not fit into what would be considered normal. Um, first of all, in in some instances, I was the only Asian kid in my class. Uh, people would assume very racist racial things about me, and it made me really insecure as a human. And I I was picked on and I got into fights with people because you know, one thing my older brother told me it's like, no matter what, bullies just want an easy target. So I know it's super scary for you to stand up to these big, tall dudes, but if you do, they'll just leave you alone. And I took that advice to heart. So I'm not telling you I want all these fights, but they didn't bother me much after that because you have to learn how to stand up for yourself. And uh while growing up, I thought to myself, it would just be better if I were white and part of the majority because this is rough. Like I literally would uh walk down the street home from school, and some girls across the street would just yell out racial slurs at me. I'm like, I didn't even know you. This would happen at the supermarket, this would just happen in weird places. I'm like, this is rough. So, so James, I've had a lot of practice bearing my weirdness, what makes me different for a long time. And even within my own community of my my relatives and my family, I did not fit in there either because as a young person, I was really interested in fashion and design. So I was looking through GQ magazine. Of course, people assume you're gay or this or that, you know, and I was entrepreneurial, but I didn't know how to make money as a kid. So one of my fantasies was I wanted to buy a magic bake oven, an easy bake oven, because I thought, boy, if I could just make some cookies, I can sell the cookies. And I remember one time my brother's like, What are you doing? Why would you look at that? That's for girls. So this is an unusual there's and I'm into comic books and Dungeons and Dragons. And these are not like chick magnet things that you would do, you know. This is like give you a wedgie, dump you in the dumpster kind of thing, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Um, when did you realize that um your weirdness could be useful?
SPEAKER_02:It took a long time. I think somewhere in college, uh, this is the first time I felt like in my life that I'm going to be the master of my own destiny. I choose to go to art center. I get in, I meet all these weirdos. There's still some jocks left, but you know, it's mostly weirdos. And I feel like I think I might be home here. You know, in this Craig L. Wood building at in the Pasadena campus, it's steel and it's austere, and it there's even a smell. You walk in, you smell the resin, you're like, it smells like art. It smells like creativity lives here. And I started to find myself. And I'll tell you something. Um, there was a guy, and I I I still know him today. His name is Barton Chin, and he's a shorter Asian guy, and he'd wear really thick glasses. You know, he's very nearsighted. And you know, he he wasn't he didn't come from like a fancy background, like he didn't have a lot of money, he was always scrounging around for stuff. But I saw the ease in which he walked in his own skin and how gregarious he was. So he'd walk down the hallway and say, Hey, what's up? You know, this and I would hang out with him, like, is this how it's done? Is this how you interact with humans? And so I just started to model myself after him. If he walked a certain way, I'm not mimicking him, but I'd walk a certain way. And if he'd say hello or whatever to somebody, I would say the same thing, not fully understanding what's happening here in the social dynamic because I'm a weird person. And all of a sudden, people start treating you differently. And I feel like, oh, this is how it's done. This is super interesting, right? So I think it's a combination of a couple things. One, feeling like I had control over my life agency, being around people that were just as weird as me, and knowing that talent is what gets you recognized here and nothing else. And three, having an accidental mentor in my friend Barton.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Um, you had mentioned already um the um what youngest child, Ryan? Youngest child of me? You no, I'm a middle child, it's even child. Yeah, middle child. Um, I've got a question for you then about that. But uh but but first, um middle child of Vietnamese refugees. Yes. What were the did they have expectations of you?
SPEAKER_02:You know, it's really weird because my both my parents are uh uh come from really large families themselves, like eight or nine siblings each, and they were the one of the older children, and so they took on more parental roles, and so it's really weird. I think when it came to their own children, it's almost like grandparents, and so they mostly just left us alone. And it's really wild to see this because I see how my uncles and aunts raised their children, it's very different. They were pretty clear about who you had to be in this world. Whereas my parents were like, you know, education is the key to success, and you just need to take it seriously. They didn't really tell us you need to be the typical doctor, lawyer, accountant, uh banker, whatever it is. They didn't tell us any of that. They just said, We have sacrificed a lot for you to have a great education, and education is the way forward. Don't waste that opportunity.
SPEAKER_01:That was kind of it. Um, early on from your family, uh, generally uh your your mom um and your dad, were there um lessons or advice that they had given you?
SPEAKER_02:I learned a lot from both. Uh sometimes kind of uh subconsciously. My dad was the disciplinarian and he put the fear of God in us, even though I, as I recollect, he never put hands on me, but there always had fear of violence, I think, you know. And uh we when we saw like with how um other parents raised their kids, it was like you're gonna get a stick on this, you know, you're gonna get a broomstick whacked against your backside. But what the way my dad resolved problems, because my younger brother and I we fought a lot, was you're gonna kneel, you're gonna sit in the corner and just kneel there until I tell you you're done, and you can just sit and think. Of course, I hated this. You know, it's painful to kneel on a hard floor or even carpet and just be static as a kid, but to be in silence, I mean, those three things are like not good for like regular people, right? And so I didn't realize, but it gave me a lot of time to think. Like, why am I here right now? And first you go through the the kind of bitterness, like it's so unfair, this is not right. Um, I hate my brother, and like, why am I being punished for this? But I think in a weird way, it just gave me time to reflect and possibly meditate. And then after we were done, and if it's something serious, and sometimes it was quite serious, he would pull me aside and he would sit there and we would talk. And we would talk for an hour and a half. And when I say we talk, he did most of the talking. I just sat there. And I I I later on discover he's doing the Socratic process on me, and he doesn't know what that is, and I don't know what it is, but he's asking me a lot of questions and getting me to like understand a reframe like what does this mean? And I know at that time all I wish was just hit me so we can go back to doing whatever we're doing, because I don't want to be here for an hour and a half. But my dad taught me a lot about logic, about the golden rule, treating people like how you want to be treated, about fairness and ethics, and just a way of thinking. I watched how he, as a self-taught uh engineer, he would rebuild the Volkswagen bus and he would just take everything apart. And how if anything broke, I'm like, yeah, this is broken. And he would sit there, okay. Let me look at it. He'd go through this process. He never explained it, but I watched it. It's like, oh, you just test variables and you start with the most obvious. Is the battery dead, son? And he would test the battery. And it's like, well, let's get a new battery. Okay, it's not that. Slowly take it apart one step at a time. From my mom, I learned a lot because she's a really creative soul. Um, she worked at IBM as a designer drafter, but when she came home, she was she was an entrepreneur, she wanted to make clothes for people, she wanted to paint and draw, and this is what she did. I think if she were raised here uh with different parents, I think she would have been a very successful artist. So today she still does chalk drawings, oil pastels, she paints, all self-taught.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Um being the middle child, like I was the baby of the family. Okay. I and I know the effect that had, I know why, how it helped my my my path. Uh, by the way, January baby, right? Yes, yeah. Happy birthday. You're the 13th, I'm the 10th. Um, um, middle child, how did that affect you?
SPEAKER_02:I didn't know it affected me until I went to therapy many years later. I think I'm in my late 20s, early 30s at this point. I go to see my family therapist, and her whole thing is I need to understand your birth order, your parents' history, their birth order, all that kind of stuff, and your wife and the whole bit. So she did this whole thing, she had me do some homework family tree. And the reason why I went to see her, James, was I said to her, I have a hard time setting boundaries, and I need your help, and I want to solve this problem as quickly as possible to tell me what I need to do. And she said to me, She goes, I don't know if you know this, but you're a caretaker. I'm like, I am not. I run my company, people take care of me. And structurally, that's how it works. And even at home, uh, my my wife and and partner in business, she took care of me too. She took care of the finances, she took care of all the food and the household things. She was our chief home officer and looked after the kids. I'm like, I'm the king of the house. And she goes, I'll prove it to you. You are a caretaker. I'm like, how? So she asked me three questions. And I remember because she's so good with her logic and her Socratic question. She goes, Okay, think back to your childhood. Uh, who helped mow the lawn? Like me. Uh, who who did the laundry in your house? And I said, My mom. Who helped her with laundry? I'm like, me. And who helped with like clearing dishes or like cleaning up the bathroom or whatever? I'm like, Oh my god. It's me. And first reaction was bastard brothers never did anything. Yeah, this is interesting. She goes, Well, let me tell you what happens with middle children. You don't have place, the oldest gets a certain amount of attention, and the youngest gets a certain amount of attention, and you're in the middle, and your survival instincts kick in. And the way middle children adapt is they become useful. And you know, my mom would say to me, uh, when I was growing up, I'm sure she said it to all the children. It's like, oh, oh, you're my favorite. You're always so kind and thoughtful. And that was like, okay, I now know how to be. Unfortunately, this translates into adulthood where you're looking after the feelings and the needs of other people ahead of your own. Once I realize this, I'm like, damn, that's why those mother effers are like taking advantage of me and pushing my boundaries here. And with that, I started to make some changes about boundaries.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Excellent. Um, yeah, you remind me. I should, I, I should write, uh, write a piece about me being a me being uh um the third of three and the only boy raised by women. Changed my life significantly. I bet it did. Uh you refer to yourself, and I love this, of course, uh a loud introvert with a big mission. I dig that. Um when I was a kid, I was shy. Because I was told I was shy. I they my father referred to me as this is my he's my youngest, he's the shy one. I was like, what the fuck? Uh-oh, I guess. You know, it's like you you you you know, you assume that because you've been told by authority. Um I'm interested in the loud part.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, it seems like it's a skill that you developed early on uh to survive uh emotionally, socially, uh, and now you know, now professionally. Can you um can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I think up until almost like through college, I'm I prefer to be mostly invisible. So it's not a survival skill through uh teenage adulthood, but because I like if if the teacher called my name, if somebody gave me undue attention, either positive or negative, uh the hairs on my neck would get up and my heart would beat faster and I'd get all clammy and sweaty. It's just I don't want that. Uh, mostly because, you know, I I know this is a little bit sad to say, but when when people would ask this question, like, oh, if you had a superpower, you know, when I was a kid, what superpower would you have? And people are like, oh, icy breath or move at the speed of light or whatever. I was like, I just want to be invisible, man. Quite literally, I just want to be able to like, I don't like the situation, I'm gonna turn invisible, you can't see me no more. And the invisible man like really intrigued me. And and that is a manifestation of my desire, just like, just leave me alone. I just want to do my stuff. And I just I don't want to be seen, I don't want to be heard from, I just want to be invisible, quite literally. And I did everything in my power to get out of situations where I would have to be in front of the class or say something or do something. So your dad's label for you would fit really well with me. But as I got older and I started to find my own identity, I started to realize a couple of things. Did my desire to be invisible come innately because that's how I normally operate? Or was it a circumstance of the environment in which I was brought up in? Being the middle child, I'm already invisible, going to predominantly white school where I was made fun of and made to feel less than. But I wonder if I grew up in it where it was like ethnocentric and I was part of the majority, if I would be shy or invisible at all. So here I am now into my adulthood. I'm figuring out who I am and I'm making content, and I start to unlearn the self-talk that this is who I'm supposed to be. And I remember something about my childhood. When my cousins would come over, I would be like the comedian for them. I would tell stories and I would just make up random things. Like I would look at album art from Kiss or whatever band my uncles had, and a turnover, and I'm like, you know what this band's about? I would just tell them a story, and they're like, This is great. I'm like, is it true? I'm like, not at all. I just made it up. They're space aliens, right? And they breathe fire and they do all these things and they eat bats. It's like, I think, I don't know. And they would laugh and I would make jokes and wear silly things. So perhaps, maybe deep down in there, there was this loud person who hadn't given himself permission to be loud. So the the the way I shared the loud introvert thing is when you get to know me, you'll start to see some certain things. Like I'm very much a wallflower, like artists and social events really scare me, especially if I don't know anybody. I'm like desperately looking for a familiar face because I don't know how to begin and end conversation. So I just stand there. But what they see online is something very different. They see this sometimes bombastic person who is very opinionated, strong-willed, and like like looking forward to an argument or a debate with someone to shred them, as the kids would say. And so they're trying to resolve the story of like this weird, shy person and who they see on the internet. And so I had to tell them, you need to think of it like this. I'm a loud introvert, I've learned how to use the game of social to take up a little bit more space because I'm I'm not super comfortable with letting the extroverts have all the fun. And I when I go on stage, I I I say this my goal, my aim is to make content so good I don't have to develop social skills. And when people see you enough times, it's I know it's parasocial, they feel like they know you, and so now the room of strangers becomes there's three people who might know me, and they walk up, and then I'm having a much better time with my life with myself, James.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Um, um, so there's a level of um there's a level of you that had to armor up. Can you can you now let that armor off?
SPEAKER_02:100% and I I try to lean into transparency and vulnerability, so I'm now no longer concerned about what you think about me. So I don't need to armor up about anything because I think once you are aware of who you are, you accept who you are, then the next phase is to express who you are. And I'm in that era right now of my life where I'm just gonna be me. And if you don't like it, I respect that, but I'm not gonna change because of you.
SPEAKER_01:Chris, what scares the shit out of you?
SPEAKER_02:Less and less each day. Um I I think the the thought of my children suffering scares me. Not that that's a a thought I entertain very often, but if they are suffering, it's like, oh, how did I fail them? What did I do in my life? Uh, because that was like the one job you can't screw up. But luckily they're they're amazing human beings, and as far as I can tell, they're very happy and productive and pursuing their dreams without feeling the need to perform or to hit someone else's standards. And that makes me really happy. Um in a room of strangers, I I'm usually scared of that.
SPEAKER_01:Um, one thing I've always dug about you, and I think um you've answered this a little bit earlier, there's a there's a similarity between between you and I. There's this dichotomy of who we are as a people and who we are as um uh on stage or in front of a mic. Um but I dig, I've always dug the the confidence and the the confidence or the bravado um to the point of um cocky or arrogant. Um we now know that that comes from intention and practice. Um are you unsure? Do you have doubts? Right now, you're thinking, oh man, I wish James Victory could be my mentor, my guru. Hell, I wish he was my coach. Well, you can make that happen. Go to your workisagift.com. There's a questionnaire that will probably help you out, but it'll also give you access to a free call. So let's talk. Let's free you from overwhelm and creative frustration. Let's build your business and help you get paid to do what you love. Again, go to your workozeagift.com. Let's talk.
SPEAKER_02:I I I I know it's gonna sound terrible, but I don't really doubt a lot. So I I'm trying to think seriously, like what it is that I doubt. Um, the way my mind is built is that if I try something and I fail, I don't look at it as failure. I just look at it like, well, we'll we'll figure out how to do it. But we just keep doing it until we don't fail. And I think that's just a natural process of doing new things. And I know so many people who have such a great fear of failure because failure means that you're a failure. I mean, you can fail, but you're not a failure. But that's how they're wired in their minds. So they they play it so safe. Now, I know this is strange, but I want to draw it back to a lesson I learned from my typography teacher, Simon Johnston. He goes, you know, here's how we explore design. And he drew like a line across the board, right? He goes, We start here and it's like right in the middle, and he put a big dot there. And he goes, and then we try a new idea, and then he makes a tick mark like right next to it. And he goes, We try a new idea, and it's like an eighth of an inch away. And he keeps making tick marks to the left and the right. He goes, What if when we tried something, we went all the way to the right and tried this and figure out what didn't work, and we went all the way to the left. So at the beginning and the end of this timeline or this zone of variation, and we put a tick mark there. Now we know somewhere in here exists the solution. So he goes, You all have a choice to make. You can either do it like this, or you can go like this and like that, and then come back to it. And sometimes, every once in a while, you go so far right, you discover that's what works. But you get there right away.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I've I've I've I've obviously been a very big fan of the wrongest answer for a long time. Um a design related question, a business related question. Um an important question for right now. What what can humans bring to the table that that AI can't?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. It's very good. I think humans can bring intentionality, taste, heart, soul. And I know this is gonna sound weird where for a very long time it was the pursuit of perfection as a sign of craft. I think now it's the pursuit of imperfection as a sign of humanity. Yes. I think the new luxury is the ability to do something slow. The new luxury is the the uh affordance to be able to receive something that was made by a human, not by a machine. So I think the poor, uh the the people who don't have much will will buy the thing that's manufactured on an assembly line, and the people who have abundance will be able to say, I'd I'd want it from James or I want it from Chris. I want their signature, the imprint on this, and that's what makes it beautiful. The kind of wabi-sabi, the beauty and the imperfection.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How can we how can we um teach or inspire that on a larger scale? Besides just being the example of it.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good question. Well, so much is changing so fast, and schools are not known for their ability to move fast, yeah. So the antithesis of that, I believe. Uh they make glaciers look like they move fast. So I in an ideal world, this is what happens. And I think it's kind of ironic that if you study the humanities, the social sciences, I think uh you would be poor in the 20th century economy. It's like, what do you do with a humanities degree? You're a thinker, yeah, you you contemplate life and meaning, you're good with words, uh you're you understand history. What do you do with that? You go and teach, I think, and you become poor, you become a poor academic. But in the 21st century AI economy, I believe the humanities have all of a sudden become really important. The ability to articulate your thoughts clearly, to have a logical process, to be a lover of philosophy and history and the arts, I think that makes all the difference in the world. Yeah. Um, the thing I pose to people, if the machine, and I don't think it's a big if, if the machine can make anything, it's less a question of how, it's more of a question of what? What are we building? Why are we building it? Yeah. Because it can output something really glossy. And I think a lot of people who don't know better, James, uh, there's a phrase I use. Um, it's called they get lost in the gloss. It's so shiny that you become hypnotized by the shine that you don't even know that that's good or bad.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I think the the shiny lure right now is very strong.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um it's really unfortunate. I've got a 10-year-old and an eight-year-old, and I've got to uh they're they're in a they're in a gifted school and they are they are learning um on you know computer that tracks their eye movements and their hand movements and their, you know, and I have to I have to be the counterweight to that.
SPEAKER_02:Um Chris, do you consider yourself an artist? I didn't for a long time. I do consider myself an artist now. I would I would go to war with somebody and say designers aren't artists. And the reason why I make this distinction is because artists have a perspective on the world and it's an invitation to look at the world differently. And they do it under their own agency, uh, and they're not bending that for a commercial endeavor. That's what a true artist is. And so when I'm a designer, I have a job and a responsibility. Someone gave me money so I can sustain a life, and I need to make sure that my personal uh feelings about things don't impede their ability to conduct business. I'm irresponsible. I'm not a steward of their business if I do so. So I would say the problem that designers have is many of them, you excluded, here is that you think you're an artist and they're getting in the way of your art. Well, don't take their money, do your art and be happy doing what you do. And then when I start making videos on YouTube, my ideas change. I know there's going to be really weird. And yeah, send me a DM, y'all. We can debate about it offline. But here's the thing: when I make a piece of content on YouTube, no one tells me what to do. I'm not paid to do it. It it may not be art to you, but it's my art. I invite you to look at the world from a different perspective and hopefully share the feeling that I have about this thing. And I don't do it for commercial gain. Now, sometimes that does happen, but this is what I do. And so when when young people, I assume they're young, I don't know that, would comment, Chris, you should do it this way, you should do it that way. I said, friend, I've spent 24 years of my life doing exactly that and getting paid a lot more money than you're paying me right now. I didn't like it then, I like it less now. So if you want to do it that way, you start your own channel, you do it your way. And they're like, they get really hurt by that. I'm like, yeah, because I'm an artist now. And I'm gonna do what I want. If you're here for the ride, welcome. If you're not, cool. Find your ride. I'm just not yours, that's all, and I'm good with that.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Do you believe that design has a civic or a moral responsibility?
SPEAKER_02:It should. I don't think everybody looks at it like that. But you know, somebody was telling me like ethics. I heard somebody debate it with somebody, I couldn't find a better argument against it. The ethics is preference, it's the preference of the majority. We prefer that you don't hurt people versus hurting people, but in a different society, hurting people might be considered ethical. So there's a moral and civic duty if society deems that this is our preference. And it would be my preference that if you're in the space of mass communication and you have the ability to influence people, you have a duty to speak up and do the things that are right within you. Now, I'm not sitting here saying right, left, or middle, just do what's right in your heart. And and the the biggest contention I have for any political party or side is be consistent. I find that it's hypocritical on both sides, maybe a little bit more on the other, but hypocritical on both sides that when it's convenient for you, you get really righteous, and when it's not, you're like, no, we can overlook that. And and I think that kind of thinking is tearing this country apart.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Early on in my career, I was always asked um about the political thing, and you know, you're not a graphic designer because, or um, and I held the belief, and I still hold the belief that um that having an opinion and giving a damn is a choice. It doesn't come with the it unfortunately doesn't come with the business. You know, an art school, and I you know, I taught at the School of New Arts for 18 years, you know, um about trying to have a but have an opinion. Um, but it the there is no there is no innate responsibility. That's uh that has to be a personal choice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think to not is is very close to a sin, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, a lot of people um they're not deep thinkers, James. And I I I've learned this in my life, and I think you you may have as well, is that what seems so obvious to do uh for us in terms of what we say and how we move in this world is actually very foreign for a lot of people. And I know this because I consume a lot of social content and I read what they write. I'm like, that is your point of view. It's kind of like milk toast. That that's it, that's all you have. Like you'd even phrase that in a funny, interesting way, and you don't speak in an interesting way, so it's like, I don't think they're trying to be boring, just everyone can't be that interesting. Not everyone is a deep thinker, not everyone's philosophical, not everyone has conviction. And I think as you're like holding up the torch for those people, they'll find you. But the people who bump into you are like, how does he do that? Where do you come up with that idea? They're just not that deep thinkers. That's the problem.
SPEAKER_01:We are drowning in a in a sea of content creators who are who are who are spitting out Pablum and oatmeal. Um you and your courses and your business and your um yeah, which which which which uh you know you are a uh a guide and a mentor to many, including myself. So thank you for that. Thank you. But the the the the overall the level of work is is is excellent and shiny and almost perfect. Um you run a tight ship, dude. You run a fucking tight ship. Don't look behind the counter, you know what I mean? Yeah, the the man behind the curtain. Yeah um is there room in your life and in your work for messy and not knowing?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, not knowing for sure. I don't know half of what I'm doing, and it's fun to have these conversations with people and with myself. And uh in terms of like the messiness, I'm I'm fighting that, James. I'm gonna be honest with you. You know, I think I'm just drawn to Arts Center because if it's order, it's structure and how we're all drawn to different places and people, and within there, I'm drawn to the most order-structured, like Basel trained designers. I'm like, it's so nice and precise, everything makes sense to me. And I spent a lot of time there and trying to organize my life and my space so that things make sense. And I also am a great uh admirer of people like yourself who are so expressive with their ideas and their design. And I I am I am trying to bring a little bit of chaos into what I do. And I I saw that uh like you sent me one of your posters, and you wrote a little note, and I'm like, this freaking note is art, man. James just farts this stuff out. It's like I'm trying, I'm trying to draw and have this hand lettering style. I'm like, I you know, I'm trying to decode you and others. My God, it's just just like how I think of you as a deep thinker and philosophical. Uh, you are just a magician when it comes to uh bringing in that lyrical quality and putting so much of you in what you do. It is a strange and foreign and a very attractive concept to me. And I'm trying to understand it from my logical brain. And you know that's how you're supposed to do it.
SPEAKER_01:I should be feeling it, but I'm trying. Well, I I appreciate the compliments, thank you. And you know, the funny thing is uh it's always interesting to see how the world views you. Um, um, because inside me is a uh a Swiss modernist uh wrestling constantly with an abstract expressionist.
SPEAKER_02:I think I know who's winning, by the way. It's not a fair fight. Somebody brought a gun to a knife fight, that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um unfortunately, last question. Yes. What is your wish for a beautiful future?
SPEAKER_02:Do I take this in any direction or is there okay? A beautiful future looks something like this to me. Uh and it's gonna sound super utopian, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Good.
SPEAKER_02:Where there is universal basic income, that the money that we pay in taxes in this country are used to help and protect people, first and foremost, at home, and that we we we stop pursuing wars in the foreign countries and we don't need to be the police force of the world. We do need to step in from time to time to prevent atrocities and massacres from happening, but we don't need to be controlling uh people's minerals and resources. We don't need to do that. We don't need to be in uh empire expansion mode. And if we all have universal basic income, and it comes from, I think, taxing AI companies, that's a good place to start, and energy companies, people who are basically stripping the planet of the resources. If we start there, it's a good place, I think. I think then it it changes the question of do we need to survive to how how do we want to live? I've got so many people are are fighting just to stay alive and to take care of their families uh across the spectrum. And I see a disproportionate shift in in wealth. I think some point, if we're not already there, the 1% will have more than the 99% combined. And when you have a world order that looks like that, I think we were looking at a bloody revolution. And if I'm just kind of looking abroad and seeing across history of the French Revolution and perhaps what's going to happen in Iran, it's the people can only take it so much. And when the people realize they have all the power, they've just been playing the rules to support their own suppression, I think chaos ensues. Not in a good chaos, but a really bad chaos.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's in rich people's best interest to look after each other, to look after the less fortunate. And it's your moral and civic duty to do so, I believe. Like how many billions can you spend in your lifetime?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, and then we can get into deeper things like philosophy, art, literature, and try to like move society forward and to be less hostile towards each other because of perceived differences.
SPEAKER_01:That's beautiful. Thank you. That was beautiful. That is a beautiful future. Uh Chris, you're a gem. You're a gentleman and uh uh kind and uh you uh got a great head on your shoulders, and I I respect the shit out of you, man.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, sir. Respect is likewise. Yes, it's mutual.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate you. Uh I appreciate you being here.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.