The Right Questions with James Victore
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The Right Questions with James Victore
Episode 81: Heather Crank & Understanding Creativity In A World Of AI
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AI is speeding up creative work while quietly testing something deeper: our confidence, our craft, and our ability to think for ourselves.
I sit down with my dear friend Heather Crank, a designer and generative AI designer who translates complex tech shifts into human creative insight, and we get honest about what it feels like to make art in an AI-shaped world.
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Meeting Heather And The Big Themes
SPEAKER_05My guest on this episode of The Right Questions is my dear friend Heather Crank. Heather is a designer and a generative AI designer known for translating complex technological shifts into deeply human creative insight. I've asked Heather to come on the podcast because of her particular sensitivities to life, art, design, and the human condition. In her practice, Heather reframes Gen AI as a collaboration rather than a tool, helping designers, artists, and organizations move beyond the fear and hype into a thoughtful and ethical creative practice. Together, we're talking about exploring creativity, consciousness, and a life in the AI-shaped world. Here we go. Heather Craig, it is a delight to have you here. Thank you. I know you're very busy, and I asked you on short notice, and I really appreciate you being here.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, James.
SPEAKER_05Um, I am going to uh start this with the question that I ask everybody, which is um, what made you weird as a kid?
SPEAKER_00Always been weird. Um, I can't think of a time when I wasn't weird. I really wanted to fit in, but it's just never worked out. Um always artistic, always creative, always a little bit ahead of the curve. Um kind of what's the word would I take? A little intense, I think, for some people. Yeah, it's it's I am. I am weird.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I grew up um with that question constantly, why can't you be normal? And I'm like, well, besides a frontal lobotomy, I just don't know how to I don't know how to do it.
SPEAKER_00I feel that too. Yeah.
Sensitivity And A Pull Toward Magic
SPEAKER_05Heather, um I've done some homework, done some research, and one of the things that um uh one of the things I found out about you was this uh this idea of being drawn to magic. Can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so I've always sort of had a success. And um actually when I was about 13, it was difficult for me, and I had to learn how to separate my energy from other people's energy. So I've always sort of had this awareness of something bigger and energy and um a sensitivity to my environment. So magic is it's one of my favorite things. I feel like um I have a connection to magic whether I want it or not. Luckily, I love magic, so it's not torturous, but it is something that comes with some challenges I've had to learn how to manage.
Wings Swords And Symbolic Thinking
SPEAKER_05Excellent. Um you also above your head, I believe that if you're in your studio, you have a large set of wings, like human-scale, like Icarus wings. Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so ever since I can remember, I I love the symbol of wings and swords. I don't know where it comes from, it's just kind of been part of me. So um they kind of give me inspiration. Um, they're a symbol for hope and freedom. Um, and the sword for me is sort of like that cutting through, that uh feminine power kind of symbol. I I I'm really big on symbols and in um in my own work, personal work, I love to work with symbols and things that represent the subconscious.
SPEAKER_05Um, so that makes sense that you studied um in school, you studied uh psychology as well as fine art and theater. Can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um so the psychology part is that I'm just very curious about what creates certain scenarios in people's lives, belief systems, what's under the surface. And I'm also very curious about why we make choices. Um for me, psychology was a way to better understand myself, but also as someone who has a humanitarian bent, how to understand the motivations of other people. Fine art, I just that's like you were saying earlier. I it just kind of comes out of me. I didn't really have a choice. I am passionate and drawn to um painting in particular. I had four years of life drawing. I studied um the Meisner technique in theater, which is where you work from the inside out. You're you develop your emotional muscles, and then you use that to create a character versus the Stanislavsky, so hard to say, method, which is the outside in, where it's the costume that develops a character. So I love um, and this is weird because I'm an introvert, but I love theater, but I also feel like it's a great way to communicate to a large audience without having to interact with each person, which for me is a little bit exhausting.
SPEAKER_05I think that I think theater draws that that personality. You do. Yeah, I think theater and comedy draws that personality because now we don't have to be ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way.
SPEAKER_05It's so much easier to to you know to put on a persona and be somebody else, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Sometimes, sometimes actors are so much more comfortable, you know, in a in a role than than out on the street just being themselves. True. Um, as well as theater, you studied fine art and you put uh literature. I know that, you know, for me, literature and poetry are are are extremely important in my creative process as far as inspiration. I don't look around at other people's work, I don't look at design. I look at um the American, um, the modern expressionists or or um and I know that literature is important to you as well. You studied it in school. You also studied uh um uh dance.
SPEAKER_00I did.
SPEAKER_05Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00So I think theater it was like the gateway drug to dance for me, um the performance aspect of it. But also, I studied um ballet and modern. Um, I at one point I did some choreography with a sword on my head. But the the thing about dance, it's a way that I can express myself nonverbally in a very deep way. And as the as someone who's an introvert too, this was an it was like theater, but sort of more intimate in a way where I was really allowed to express myself. Um, yeah, and I love it. If I could smoosh all of those things together and make a career, that would be amazing.
SPEAKER_05Uh speaking of dance, I know that um, and you mentioned a sword, I know that a dance and a sword were combined. Can you tell me?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I worked with uh a dance company in San Francisco, and um I had this amazing teacher, choreographer, and the last time I danced for with that group, right before I went to design school, um, we gave a performance in downtown San Francisco and it sold out, which was amazing. And um, this particular choreography, I balanced a sword on my head through the whole thing, which it was amazing, um, and very archetypal, um, and very like feminine power kind of um environment. So it's something, like I said, it's one of those symbols that's near and dear to me. And to be able to perform like that was it's something I'll never forget.
Dreams Death And Intuition
SPEAKER_05Awesome. Uh, you know, the uh the image of you as a um an archetypal tarot card imagery with a woman dancing with a sword balancing on her head is fantastic and very apropos. Um uh very oddball question. Uh talk to me about um seeing dead people.
SPEAKER_00Oh, right. Um so this has just been something um I've dealt with my my whole life. It's just uh one of those I'm doing your quotes, gifts. Usually it's when somebody passes, uh, they show up in my dreams. And sometimes it's very abstract, and I have to kind I'm trying to figure out what my subconscious is telling me. And then those dreams have a very specific quality. They're they don't feel like mental processing dreams, and I've learned to distinguish the two. So when I have the dreams that are more abstract, I know to pay attention, and usually I can figure it out. Or every once in a while they're crystal clear and someone just is interacting with me, talking to me. Sometimes, um, if it's a violent death, there's sort of a shock involved, which is uh those dreams are very difficult. Um, yeah, so it's just something I've always had, and it's a uh it's a difficult gift, but I I'm also grateful um because it's allowed me to have a perspective that about life and the world and um how we live that is very different.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, I think that gift comes to folks who are um incredibly sensitive to, you know, like uh, you know, an an artist per chance. I've had periods, I've had periods of that. This is why I'm asking the question. I've had I've had distinct periods of that and distinct places that I've lived that have had that. And I learned to um stop kind of fearing it and stop brushing it off. And there was one point in my in my life because of the house that I lived and the point that I was in my life where I would just kind of look over my shoulder and I would just say hello and and and let that go and just wait for anything else, right? Just like there's a there's a presence, you know, and I'm like, okay, hi.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think it's important for us to, you know, to pay attention to those things, just to like pay attention to our gut or our intuition or agreed.
SPEAKER_00It's definitely, you know, it's one of those things I didn't really talk about publicly um until a several years ago. And I was like, you know, there's no point in hiding this. People already think I'm weird.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh I would like to switch over to um questions about a subject that you and I are both near and dear, um, um, which is AI, of course, artificial intelligence. Um, you recently spoke about AI and creativity uh with uh two distinct experts, uh Helen and David Edwards, who are founders of the uh Artificiality Institute, um uh which which I think those qualifications make you an expert. So I would love to hear you know your some of your thoughts about uh about AI, okay?
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_05Um, so you were an uh an artist and designer, um, like me. You started uh before AI. Um were you an early adapter of um um technology in your work?
SPEAKER_00Yes, definitely. Um I'm kind of drawn to technology, I'm drawn to kind of future-facing things. Um, I'm very curious about them. And like I said earlier, for some reason, I tend to recognize patterns and things a little bit earlier than other people. Um so technology has sort of been our trajectory for a while. And so that's kind of involved the patterns I keep noticing. So yeah, definitely early.
SPEAKER_05Uh I I'm I'm curious about it. I've I'm I'm a I'm a dabbler at this point, and I want to I want to be able to use it intelligently. Um does it feel like a good collaborator to you?
SPEAKER_00Yes and no. Um you have to be really careful how you use it. There have been some studies that have come out recently around cognitive decline, which makes sense. If you don't use a muscle, you lose it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I think it's really important to not allow AI to think for you, to generate thoughts and concepts for you, where you come in as the sovereign person and you have a conversation with AI rather than allowing it to do the work for you. So, yes, I think it can be helpful and I also think it can be dangerous.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I um am just getting out of a period of using it rather intensely where I've realized I was using it wrong. And what that means is it made me doubt myself.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really?
SPEAKER_05Because I I was assuming that there was quality coming out of this thing and that I should trust it. And um I very quickly started doubting myself and it would spit out this information, and I thought, well, I've got to be an idiot because now it's picked now I'm spending a day and a half trying to turn that gobbledygook into fucking English and into you know what I think should happen. So um I think I was relying on, you know, any anything that you lean on can move, and when it moves, then you fall, right? Um what is something that you believed about creativity, let's say five years ago, that AI has either changed or broken for you?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, wow, that's a good question. I think what AI has done is it made me really conscious about where creativity comes from, why the human component is so important, and that um AI creates from analyzing past output. Humans create from what's called the adjacent possible or everything that's happened up to this point that allows the new thing to occur. So we we have the potential to create things in the future, which AI does not have that ability. And we also have the ability to break rules, which is part of creating the future. AI cannot do that, it's programmed to do very specific things. So I'm beginning to think about creativity as a decision, not just an output, as something that involves breaking rules, not just recombining what already exists. So the actual kind of tactic outside of the way we think, but actually how we approach creativity in itself, uh, my whole worldview is beginning to shift and become a lot more specific in its definition.
SPEAKER_05Interesting. Um uh do you think prompting is a uh a creative act, or do you think it's just a new fancier version of art direction?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a really good question. Um, okay, so I the reason I like prompting is involves writing. And there's a part of me that loves postmodern literature and poetry and all that. So when I'm engaging the part of me that loves writing and creating at the same time, for me that's that can be a creative act. For the people who are kinesthetic, I think it's the devil and they actually hate it because it takes them away from what makes them creative. It's definitely um a form of art directing as well, for sure. I use the exact same process when I'm art directing as I do with AI.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Um let's talk about the industry industry for a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Oh boy.
SPEAKER_05Um you had brought up a point uh in something that you wrote on Substack recently about um entry-level jobs. Oh, yeah. Tell me your your thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_00So we're trying to optimize the human condition, basically. And um what's happening is that entry-level jobs are disappearing, they're being replaced. So we've got this whole structure where you know your entry-level jobs come in and then eventually those people become employees. So, what happens when that entry-level rung disappears? How do people move from college to an internship to a junior role to a senior role? This whole structure that we move in as far as our creative careers, it is a huge problem. It's already starting to happen. Um, I think we have a potential to lose an entire generation if we're not careful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm really concerned about this. Really, really concerned.
Coaching Offer And Free Call
SPEAKER_05I've got a letter from a young designer just recently, and she said, um, she was like, James, my my my professor is saying if I don't get into in you know, interested in up to speed with AI, that I won't have a career. What do you think? Um, what would be your answer to her? Right now, you're thinking, oh man, I wish James Victory could be my mentor, my guru. Hell, I wish he was my coach. Well, you can make that happen. Go to your workisagift.com. There's a questionnaire that will probably help you out, but it'll also give you access to a free call. So let's talk. Let's free you from overwhelm and creative frustration. Let's build your business and help you get paid to do what you love. Again, go to your workozeagift.com. Let's talk.
Advice To Young Designers Stay Human
AI Tribalism And Nuanced Conversation
SPEAKER_00It's hard to see the future. Um it this is a really difficult question because it's dangerous. And but also the speed that we're that we're evolving. I mean, it's it's it's not like it's small chain incremental changes. This is like zero to 500. And it's hard for me to see where we're going. I mean, it some people say we're all gonna be out of jobs. Some people say you're gonna train and do less, and yeah, I will take over part of it. You're you're not gonna have the same employment structure. Um it's really hard. I would say to someone like that, I would say be aware of what makes you human. Do the things that create culture, read, listen to music, be creative, because AI will automate and take over a lot of the entry-level production type of jobs. But it's never going to be able to replace what makes us human. And there's already a trend right now, um, kind of moving towards the anti-tech, you know, where it's working by hand and collage and um this show me where the hand touches something, show me the grittiness of the creative process. So I I would tell her learn AI, be aware of how it functions and where the problems may occur, just so that you can speak truth to power and keep doing what makes you human, stay in the social sciences, stay in the humanities, stay in the arts, because I do. think there's going to be an inflection point coming up where there's going to be a split between two camps. And I'm not sure what that looks like, but I think if you anchor in what makes you human, you're going to be fine.
SPEAKER_05Um you talk about the you talk about the split into camps. I was thinking about this earlier. I'm going to write about it uh shortly probably after this conversation I'll be driving to get my kids and I'll be speaking it into my phone probably I'm going to be so excited about it. But um splitting into two camps if I if I make a mention of my attitude towards AI which is which is which is you know holding it at a healthy distance um if I express that on say LinkedIn there's a whole bunch of people waiting to jump on top of me as if I've insulted their mother yes it's true right yeah but that's but but Heather see that is that is the beginning of a cult.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes I agree. The way I feel about this is it's really it's very there's a lot of black and white thinking it's this or that it's good or bad. And I think the conversation around this especially the way it's already infiltrated society is really nuanced. Everybody has a right to their feeling and their opinion and I the fear is real. I get it. However I cannot imagine a time where I was able to change a tech bros thoughts around what they were creating and how it was going to influence society. But I do think we can reclaim the technology and kind of be rebellious and use it to our advantage. The reaction from people I think is somewhere people have gotten stuck in it it's also happening across lots of other different facets in our society right now where it's very binary. So I would just encourage people to have some grace give each other room to talk about this and have nuanced discussions without attacking people because that fear it's going to become an obstacle as things move faster and you're left out of a conversation that's super important.
Kids Attention And The Future
SPEAKER_05Beautiful I'm really enjoying your answers Heather thank you for all this um again industry question uh who do you think is most at risk right now with AI? Yeah. Uh kids oh damn good question. Yeah my kids go to a special school and that's um it's somewhat um it's AI led but it's not it's not like they're being you know taught by a um um a computer they have a teacher and they've got you know they do a lot of outdoor activities a lot of outside activities but um um they know my attitude about it and even you know even like you know YouTube is forbidden you know all this there's so much there's so much out in social media and um you know we have a TV but it's only Friday and Saturday movie night with me there right so it's I'm pretty you know tight on that stuff. And yes I I am afraid for their future because they're they're they're nine and eleven and they're going to be growing up in this world. It's to the it's to the point where they know if we go to the grocery store together, you know, I still am so pedantic that I point out you know the nine year old kids sitting in the cart glued to an iPad instead of walking around looking up and asking questions and my kids walk around and go, look how many balloons there are stuck on the ceiling.
Standards Scraping And False Expertise
SPEAKER_00Oh my God, this is so cute. Yeah yeah uh kids definitely um what about what about um in the industry do you think ai is is kind of coming through like the grim reaper um or is it just pointing out uh who was actually talented oh god it's definitely not pointing out who's talented um i think that it's a it's dangerous for the creative industry the way it's been implemented i i really have an issue with the way they scraped everybody's work and then use that to create a technology where people confuse the tool with actually being an expert a tool does not make you an expert it's a tool it's an end to a means you are not a designer because you can create something pretty with AI that's not design um I think there's a huge confusion around what makes something good and I'm really hoping the industry continues to hold standards and doesn't just collapse under the need to make more and more money.
SPEAKER_05A level of discipline about it. But I unfortunately think that we as people um love our conveniences and love our ease and comfort and um now um that will kill us.
When Tools Optimize Output Not Art
SPEAKER_00For sure for sure I actually heard a quote from a CEO talking about how great it was to let go of people because people are so difficult and they can just optimize a machine to work 24 hours a day, no sick leave, no problems, no issues um but part of the beauty of being a designer or an artist is that when you create something, you release it out to your peer group and you have a conversation about is this good, is this bad and we set the standards based on centuries of experimentation. The optimization of everything creative will just kill culture. Yeah and I think we take culture for granted how much it feeds us. So I think that's a big problem. Yeah um do you think professionally that um we're basically shooting ourselves in the foot yes I do um I think that I understand why this speed and using AI is so great and I honestly not having to create a clipping path in Photoshop has been like one of the greatest gifts ever and like there are ways to use it where it is really helpful but we're not the way it's being structured is by a group of engineers it's not being designed for creative people it's not being designed for creativity the way maybe other tools have been designed in the past um Dave Edwards of Helen and Dave he was one of the people who helped build Final Cut Pro and he talks about that a lot that when they were designing some of these tools it was to help creative people be more creative. What's happening now is not that what's happening now is about optimizing output. It's not about creativity. So I think that is terrible for our industry.
The Utopia Story People Believe
SPEAKER_05Yeah I mean if I didn't know for a fact that the people who are creating these programs weren't just greedy bastards, um, that would help. But I know that they are greedy bastards and I know that they have also mostly expressed no interest at all in humanity which you know scares me that we are we are willingly you know using these tools and giving them our money well it's free right now but the last thing that we got from for free wasn't so good either. It was called COVID.
Reclaiming AI Like Hip Hop Did
SPEAKER_00So yeah no that that sucked yeah um what are people uh romanticizing about AI that just isn't true so there's an idea about this utopian future and the way I think about it is there may be a utopian future but it's only going to be for a select group of people yeah um I don't think people who have a lot of money given their track record are just going to suddenly give money to all of humanity and we'll have universal income I think that's gonna be a fight um why would somebody who's wealthy not want to become more wealthy and suddenly be a humanitarian that it's just not how things work. So I think that is a I don't think that's a future I think it's going to be a lot more there's gonna be a lot more friction. Yeah yeah I hear you um okay let's look at the other side before the revolution yes yes before the guillotines yes um what are the opportunities so I think the opportunities are to what I would love to see I would love to see designers and artists take this technology use it in a unique way break it apart and reclaim it for themselves there's a lot of um historical references about people doing this um I spoke about this at Caldera I spoke about hip hop as being a great example of you know taking a turntable that's supposed to play records and then suddenly it's an instrument and it was used to create an entire culture. I think that we have the capability to be really creative and really break rules and I want to see more of that happening because we don't know what the potential of this technology is outside of an engineer dictating how we use it. So what if we stopped saying yes to how it's being fed to us and think about what could this do? What's possible with this that could be positive because the technology itself is neutral.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah so I I'm a big advocate for that one of the I mean the way I'm the way I see it and the way I'm using it and the way I will continue to use it is I'm gonna still sit at a desk with pens and paper and make and think and or I will go sit um out under a tree and you know um ruminate on silly ideas and uh make shit up for a living um and then when it comes down to marketing it and needing needing newsletters and needing I you know I might start to rely and go hey can you give me three ways to you know um it's not be it's not a particularly creative way to use it and it's not the way you certainly use it which is actually directly in the work um but it you know but I um I think we all have to go in you know at our own pace and find uh find our own purposes with it and not just believe like that art instructor who was trying to you know lead this woman down a a scary path you know that that it's not the answer. You know I mean I I saw this type of thing when I was teaching at uh the school of visual arts when computers came into the into the classroom where they would start bringing in work. I didn't allow any computer driven work but I understood from from you know from spending a lot of time in the school that the students actually thought there were answers in that box. And not not in answers in sitting out under a tree or having intelligent conversations with friends, right?
SPEAKER_00You mentioned uh the the the hip hop oh yeah revolution um so what happens to the um quote unquote original voice when everything is remixable oh that's a good question I think what happens is there's sort of a phase where everything kind of sounds the same for a little bit like everybody get hops on a trend like everybody dresses the same or sounds the same and like there was that point when uh that what is that called where they fix people's voice and it gives that robot sound when they're singing and then it became trendy and then it was in everything for a while. And then it's that adjacent possible like all the things that happen before that moment give you a set of new tools that you can use to create something new. So I think it's possible we may lose the original voice for a little bit and it's already happening where things are looking very homogeneous, which is the big danger of AI. But then it'll also at some point open up a new set of tools or new way of working where there will be new original voices. And what that sounds like I've no idea I can't predict the future but there is a historical context about how we come together and everything becomes the same and then all of a sudden there's another ramp of innovation that occurs.
Faster Cheaper Good Pressure On Creatives
SPEAKER_05Okay sure process and whatnot. How has your uh day-to-day process changed because of AI um so my clients expect me to work a lot faster for a lot less money so that is not great can't you just hit a button there Heather and yeah you know they don't want me to take a long time they just want it done and there was some of that before but there's a lot of pressure now um I'm also expected to be a designer a copywriter an editor a marketer you know um it's kind of insane yeah yeah um it's funny you know uh you remember uh when I was a kid do you remember when I was a kid having a when I was a kid there was this uh over Xeroxed piece of paper that would you know would show up in different places and I remember it was the the garage I used to take my car like when I was when I was a young buck and um it uh it was a list of three things with check boxes next to them and it said one was fast one was cheap and one was good and underneath it it said pick two means right you can't have it fast if it's you know if you know if it's cheap and good you know like you know and it seems like that list has gone out the window everybody wants it all fast and cheap and good yes but it can't be good like it's just gonna be homogeneous like thinking takes time it just does and and that's the problem is AI is re it's a type of creativity where it recombines what already exists and that you know that AI is eating our lunch with that that's a a a type of creativity that is becoming so common now that I would think if you wanted to step apart from other um advertising companies doing that repeatedly would be a detriment you're because you're gonna get lost in the noise thinking takes time.
SPEAKER_00So if you want something good there's I mean you just it doesn't work the equation doesn't work.
SPEAKER_05Yeah yeah I'm working on a series of posters right now um a series of prints for for kids and I know what all four of them are going to say but now I've got to figure out what they look like and it really takes me sitting down at different points uh in the day over you know a month and and and doodling and drawing and sketching and like until the until that aha you know and um until I find something. And what I'm looking for is something that I know AI can't do because I'm looking for the wrongest dancer. I'm looking for the worst dancer.
Why Handwork Keeps Thinking Alive
SPEAKER_00I'm looking for something that where people would go you know I'm looking for that double take I'm looking for the the you know um the um when someone looks at something and goes huh and then a moment later they go oh wow right yeah yeah um AI's not going to find that for me the the French poster designer Cassandra said a good poster enters through the eye and explodes in the brain right yeah that's that kind of thing I don't see that I don't see that coming um it's hard enough to do in the beginning for anybody let alone um you know computer assisted or AI assisted um um where do you still insist on doing things old school baby so when I was talking earlier about the brain you know and being aware of how certain technology affects your brain um I still when I'm sometimes I'll use AI to sketch out an idea but then I go in by hand I will paint things I will draw things um because there's a hand brain connection that occurs and I can't access certain kinds of thinking without it being physical because that's how we're hardwired. So um yeah I do a lot I do a lot by hand.
SPEAKER_05So craft still matters to you?
Connection Community And AI Loneliness
SPEAKER_00Oh huge I'm huge on craft I you know I mean I I actually should not have even pointed that correct that question to you I just mean you know you know what happens to craft in an AI world it becomes more important is what's going to happen because um everybody's expression of who they are is based on their entire lifetime and even though AI is learning you know and sort of optimizing everything we've put online doesn't have your specific touch which is what makes something interesting and um craft is never going to go away it's never going to become insignificant because less personal work is less impactful work and we're gonna get bored. Yeah yeah right now it seems like um it seems like there's not more creativity there's just more noise right there's just more stuff yeah and it's gonna it's gonna get worse for a little bit um what do you think humans are gonna need um from you from art from from from you know culture in uh in five years that AI can't deliver connection ah connection well i mean ai to a certain point just like social media is kind of the opposite of that right yeah it's it gives you that false sense of connection you can feel like you're having a conversation but it's empty and there's a lot of uh studies coming out right now about how people use it as a psychologist or as a friend or uh as a partner but it actually increases the loneliness over time they're finding um especially people who use it a lot so I think connection and community those are gonna be very big in the next five years.
SPEAKER_05Yeah yeah I think one of the things that led me down the wrong path when I was when I was using it the wrong way was the way that um chat GPT would would interact with me. So I would put something in it would tell me it was that's very you James let's you know I'm like I'm like okay okay quit with the fucking back slapping chat and let's get to the yeah just do the work. Yeah yeah it's a little creepy yeah it is it's like one of these you know overzealous um assistants who's just like brown nosing yes exactly exactly and then of course because uh because um um anthropic was going against the uh the the Trump administration or it's so you know so it looked um I was gonna switch from chat to Claude did I tell you the story already where I was I was logging into Claude for the first time and it was asking me a bunch of questions then it got to that question where it says um how shall I address you and I'm like oh fuck no you ain't addressing me I'm done I'm out of here Claude thank you very much goodbye this interview is over I don't I looking for a fucking friend yeah yeah yeah it's hard yeah I mean like how do you want to interact I mean that's you know that's the question um if you had one piece of advice to give to um um a struggling creative right now what would you tell them um to do or to stop or to you know I would tell them to make sure and read the studies coming out right now about hey I how AI affects the brain and to become more aware and conscious of how you're using it.
SPEAKER_00It's not The studies are both good and bad. It can increase creativity, it can increase brain capacity, but only if it's done in an active, not passive method. So just become more aware if you're working in it. I know a lot of companies right now are requiring that you use it. So be aware of how you use it. Um I would also say make sure you're taking time away from AI to continue to work with your hands because that will keep those areas of your brain alive and healthy. And follow other artists, connect to other artists and communities, because I feel like this needs to be a broader conversation. Try to be open and try to listen instead of react so that we can we can come at this in a way where we can work together to make a better solution for everybody.
SPEAKER_05Um is there anything that you're personally afraid of losing because of this world?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, I'm very afraid of losing my voice. I'm very afraid of being dominated by a tech bro culture that doesn't have my best interest in mind. Um, I'm worried about cognitive atrophy. Um I'm worried about what's going to happen financially to the creative industry. I I I'm personally, like many people, are really struggling right now because there's so much disruption that it's hard to know where to put your focus. And um finances are really volatile. So yeah, all of that.
Defining A Beautiful Future
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Um Heather Crane, can you tell me? This is the last question. Can you describe to me what a beautiful future is?
SPEAKER_00For me, a beautiful future is one where we're inspiring each other, growing together, learning together, and creating an environment where people thrive instead of optimizing for the most money and for the um wealthiest people to hold the majority of power. I'd love to see equality and power distributed evenly for everybody. To me, that's a beautiful world.
SPEAKER_05That's awesome. Um, Heather, thank you for this beautiful gem of a conversation. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Thanks.
SPEAKER_05Thank you for your time.