Leveraging Leadership

Mastering Startup Leadership: CEO and Chief of Staff Role Evolution

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 141

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Tim Moore talks about the evolving role of a startup CEO, noting the need to step back and let others, like a Chief of Staff, handle daily operations. Natalie Piekarski shares her experience transitioning from executive assistant to Chief of Staff, planning major events, and managing board meeting preparations. They also discuss Vū’s shift from service-focused to product and software provider, including high-profile collaborations with Shaquille O'Neal and Mr. Beast.

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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 


Time Stamps:
00:33 Overview of Vū's Business
02:05 The Need for a Chief of Staff
06:42 Tim's Leadership Style
09:46 Natalie's Responsibilities 
16:52 Board Meeting Preparations
18:46 Importance of Chief of Staff in Communication
32:57 Building Trust and Relationship

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

we have two great guests today. Tim Moore is the CEO of Vue and Natalie Pekarsky is his chief of staff. Welcome to the show. Thank you both for being here.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Emily.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

for having

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

here.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

So Tim, we'll start with you. Can, just for context, can you tell us what Vue does and maybe the general stage of company that you're at?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

us. So Vue is a creative technology company, and we work with a technology called virtual production, which is essentially the of backgrounds using an LED screen so that you could be anywhere in the world without ever leaving the studio. And so we've built four of these studios that we own and operate, and 32 other studios across North America and Europe that we've built for our partners. And so it's a, it's an evolving industry right now. We're, um, a still a, a very much a startup company. We're on, we just hit year three. So, um, in the, uh, kind of cycle of the business right now, we've been able to get a really good team in place. And, uh, Natalie has done an incredible job as chief of staff to, to make sure we're up for the next challenge of the next three years.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah. Things are moving fast at that stage. Always, always changing. Never boring is what I like to say.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Definitely.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

is your team set up today? Is, do you have people in one location? Are they across geographies? How does that work?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

It's very remote in its nature. So, um, we do have employees at each of the studios, which are in Tampa, Nashville, Orlando, and Las Vegas. But we do have a lot of our leadership team that is in different markets, uh, Atlanta, in New York, uh, North Carolina. And so the nature of our work is the majority is remote work.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Okay. Gotcha. And at what point in the process in the three years, did you say, Hmm, I need a chief of staff and I need a chief of staff hiring from within or whatever, I just, I need a chief of staff. When did that come about?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, To take you back a little bit, you know, for 15 years, I had run a production company called Diamond View. And, um, there, you know, it was a bit of chaos in the first eight years, where the organization was very flat. Uh, I was driving a lot of the direction of the business. And you hit that point probably at about 15 people where you can't know everything that's happening. And it's kind of hard if you have everybody chasing the same soccer ball, like to have any strategy of how we do two things at once. And so, um, I had gotten an executive assistant and she was really helping scale some of the direction I was giving. But over time, as we grew into a 30 person organization and, and became more complex, what I realized was, um, uh, she was starting to understand all the nuance as, uh, that I had as a CEO of the decision making. Cause she was in my inbox, she was on the phone calls. And so she scaled very well to the chief of staff. And today she's the vice president of the company. And so what, what I saw in that was. Uh, you know, no matter how much you think you could be the, uh, kind of the point of, um, energy for the company and try to drive results, if you don't have that, that second person that's organizing that energy, uh, it's, it's really challenging. And so it was about year two that Natalie had done a similar transition coming from the executive assistant role to then, uh, really stepping into chief of staff and today now leading, uh, all of our leaders.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Wow. Amazing. And Natalie, when was the first time you heard of the name or the title chief of staff?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

It's when I first came to work for Tim, uh, and, uh, he had his previous chief of staff. That was my first, um, introduction to the role. And she's been really, uh, you know, a mentor for me and has helped me get to where I am. So it was really nice to be able to learn from another chief of staff.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Okay. So you weren't blazing the trail yourself. You had kind of someone going before you

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Yeah, I, I had her guidance. Uh, so it's been, it's been great.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

and then did you have to internally rebrand yourself or do people kind of accept you in the chief of staff role? Or how did that transition go?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

I think it was, um, pretty widely accepted. Uh, you know, I've been, I've been with the business since the beginning. So, uh, I had a lot of knowledge and I had a lot of, um, you know, built trust and relationships with everyone. So overall, I think it was, it was pretty widely accepted.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Okay. And so you're helping, helping the company grow and mature and kind of professionalizing the organization. And, uh, Tim, I know that you mentioned you've recently gone from a service oriented company to more of a product provider when those evolutions or pivots happen, how do you utilize your chief of staff?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

we utilize Natalie and in a lot of ways, but I'll say just sit back to the point you made before the, you know, what is so interesting about the chief of staff role is it. It's if you have someone that has been with the company for a while that moves into that role. And, and you take the responsibility before you get the title. There's a lot of respect from the team because, you know, uh, Natalie was operating in a chief of staff role before she was ever called that. And so there, they didn't feel like a transition or a kind of a knee jerk, uh, move. And so. we found is when we were going through some changes in the business, from a service business to a product business, to a software business, she was navigating that already. And now with the Chief of Staff title, it is just a formality to say, hey, this is the wing of the executive office that you can bring concerns to, that can help you, uh, uh, figure out the vision that can, Be a part of some of the departmental decision making. And, um, and so I would say that that again, like I, I go back to what makes a really good chief of staff. They have to understand the nuance of each interdepartment relationship, because that's where the collisions happen, you know, between marketing and sales, between product and operations. And so I think that, that Natalie is uniquely set up to understand that before she ever started the role formally.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

The easiest transitions or promotions are when, Oh, they're already doing that job. Of course, of course you should be the chief of staff. Of course you should be called that new thing. It sounds like Tim, you're a great leader in the sense that you are pretty transparent. You're like, Natalie, jump in there. I'm not going to hold any access back for you from you, or you can't be in this conversation. This has to run through me. That type of thing. How do you work out the different roles and responsibility and your communication with Natalie?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, a lot of it is observational. So, you know, I think you give people the opportunity and you see what they do with it. And Natalie is certainly a go getter. And so when I look at how she did the executive assistant role, you know, um, she did have all of my emails. She had all of my calls. Calendar and schedule. And so it's a very transparent process and you can build a lot of trust that way. I mean, and, and, and the opposite. And so like what you find over the years is it, when you get someone good, that is a go getter and you trust with your life, you know, all the communication, stuff like that, it's, um, it becomes very easy to say, Hey, the next step here is you're beyond the assistant role now, because a lot of these decisions can have the autonomy of what you think and, and the insights you have to push them forward. So I think for me, what the result is, is in the beginning, a startup CEO has to tackle every problem. You pull up your sleeves, you go in there and, and then it becomes a part of the business where you have enough people around that if you stick there too long, you are the problem, you know? And I, I've certainly had that. And so the chief of staff can tell you the blind spots to be like, Hey, let's, let's get a level above this. And I think when you get to an organization where things are moving. You, you want to be above the problems that you don't even know they happen. And that's where the chief of staff is the shield. And they're like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to this. And Tim's know about it. then, and then now the whole organization is just really autonomous. And so I think, um, what we've had is in the different types of business we've transitioned to, we find those challenges at different stages. And it's, it's, uh, it's allowed us to apply things we learned in the past now to challenges that we'll, we'll meet in the future.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

I really appreciate that you said that because I work with so many chiefs of staff who their principal is, is the original founder. And they know deep down in their hearts, they need a chief of staff, but they're kind of scared to pull themselves out of the business and they stay in the fray and they kind of stay in the minutia and I'm coaching chiefs of staff to coach their principal about, Hey, at this stage of the business, the way you add value Is different and you are actually the bottleneck when you stay down here and you have to pop out to this higher level. It seems like you're self aware of that and you are wanting people to step into that. So I just wanted to call that out for you as a leader. Thank you for that.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Even a lot of feedback over the years. So it's like at some point it sunk in and like, Hey, maybe everyone is right on this. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

have these scenarios. It's like there's a common denominator in all of these and that would be me. Um, fantastic. But Natalie, can you, can you just share some of the, the initiatives you work on? And I know that when you and I first connected, you were helping plan, um, a major event where you guys actually won product of the year at, uh, from NAB. So maybe touch on a few of those.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

that's of our big event of the year. So it takes a lot of planning, uh, almost every department in the company is involved. So I'm just making sure that things are driving forward. Each department kind of owns their own thing. But, um, I, I'm, you know, kind of overlooking from the top layer and just making sure that the right decisions are being made, the right questions are being made for staying on budget and then the execution, uh, becomes flawless. So, uh, each year it's gotten better and better and, uh, product theory was a nice cherry on top.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

And just out of curiosity, what was that product?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Um, it's our view one. Uh, so I think Tim can talk a little bit more about the technology, but, uh,

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

So it's, um, it's a large format interactive display. So just imagine a big TV that is used in production. And instead of having to go to the mountains or to the beach or even outside, you can

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Oh,

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

and film. From the camera's perspective, because you're standing in front of this display, it looks like you're at that location.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

okay.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

the advantage it gives is if you're, um, as someone who's doing marketing or a lot of product videos, now you can do all that in the comfort of the studio. And it's very photorealistic.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Wow. That's amazing. Okay. Content creation is just taking on a whole new, a whole new level these days. So that's awesome. Very cool. So, I mean, I'll throw this question out and both of you, either of you can answer, but as you move along, where do you, where do you see the principal and chief of staff having to go to next? So you talk about leveling up and kind of pulling out of certain things. What's the next phase you think that view and you two are going to have to go through?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, you know, one thing I think Natalie's done a really good job of as well as, uh, we track it on, uh, a board behind her kind of what are the levels of the chief of staff that you're trying to get through. And so we've identified now because of the stage rat in the business, we're kind of at that four out of five level where. We've got the respect from the team. There's a lot of awareness of, of, uh, what issues, uh, will be in that chief of staff bucket and, and what things, um, we can grow in there. But I think really the, the, uh, evolution of chief of staff as an autonomous, uh, working system is that. People see it on the organizational chart as the, as a principal, um, uh, kind of point of contact for, for, uh, all of their thoughts and questions and ideas. And so I think that is where. Um, we're seeing it move next is, uh, there's still a lot of things that will come to me for questioning. And as we get more and more confidence in the chief of staff role, I think that it allows the CEO to be in the boardroom with, uh, you know, the shareholders, the investors, and, and that's really, if you look at what's the succession plan of a, of a CEO, it's like kind of, you're, you're always the one in, uh, in the front of the boat, kind of steering where we go, but, you know, But many CEOs, you know, to step back and replace yourself as a CEO, you know, you have to start to build those systems. And so that's really where the chief of staff is, is almost the number one person in the business to keep the eye on the ball and keep that vision going. You know, regardless of what, where the CEO goes next.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah. And in an ideal week, so if you had your perfect week, where would you be spending 80 percent of your time? So at this stage, I need to be, you know, if it's out fundraising or out at conferences or networking, where do you want to be spending your time?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, I think a lot of where we're at now, you know, my focus is train the trainer. So we're, we are trying to be a performance based business. Make sure, you know, we're putting dollars on the bottom line, but the area of growth that I'm most concerned about is our leaders, because if we can build good leaderships and create good machines, that system will put. Dollars on the bottom line. And so, um, I think that that's the area that I can add a lot of value right now, but you're right. Some of the things you just discussed, the fundraising and finding the next big opportunity to, to bring the vision of the company that is the more the CEO can get out of the business and work on the business, the better the business is going to be. You know, cause they're the ones that want to charge out on the top of the mountain and look at what's next. And when you get that, that, uh, ability, man, it's, it's so invigorating as a visionary.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

And Natalie, so what types of conversations are you having now that more and more people you're becoming the go to person for? What types of interactions or exchanges are you having with, with leadership?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Um, I think a lot of it is, you know, problem solving every, every department has a unique situation. Uh, so just kind of helping, you know, chat through ideas and, and brainstorm and, and come up with the best solution for the company, I think, uh, you know, keeping everybody aligned, communication, just making sure the information is flowing back and forth. And everyone has. you know, all the tools, information they need to do the best performance in their job.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah. And just curious, how much of your work is internal versus external strategic partners or different, you know, M& A opportunities? How, what's the split there?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

I would say most of my work is internal. Um, probably a little bit outward facing, but the majority is internal.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah. Okay.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

think it's worth saying that, you know, you are very close on the board level though, because Natalie does prepare the board documents, take the notes in the meetings and understands the context of that. And I think that's an inner circle that even sometimes the top leadership in the company. Doesn't quite have access to those type of closed door sessions are, are really regarded for just the highest levels of leadership that then communicate down. And so to understand not only what is the direction of the CEO, but what's the direction of the board above the CEO, the standard that they'll be held to does allow you a lot more context to communicate throughout the departments.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah. Okay. Yes. It's so interesting because, and I, I'm curious about this because we had a board and the majority of the board members were fantastic and very helpful and wanted everyone to win. And there were a few people just for political reasons who like to get in those board meetings and just like throw knives at people and try to catch people off balance. So we would have, we would run a whole cycle before the official board meeting where we had our entire executive leadership team on where it would be CEO, CFO, me, me. Sometimes our COO and we would just hash out like, what do you guys want to hear about, what's most useful, you know, you've gotten the reports and status reports to date, like, where are you wanting to dig further in? And so we would strongly vet that conversation before. So there weren't a lot of surprises. I'm wondering how you guys approach that.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Uh, you know, I think a lot of of going into the board meetings are just the preparation. So we do the deck review and then we do like a little mock doing a quick, uh, board meeting before the board meeting so we can poke holes, you know, think about what questions are going to be asked. Cover answers ready and understand our data. So we're prepared.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah, yeah. Some of the most valuable things were we did a similar exercise where like a very quick, you know, highlight reel of what we were going to go through, but then someone would say, you know, you've got some data over here that can be mistaken with data over here. I would clarify that, or you're not answering what we ask. We sent you the list of questions. This isn't answering that. That kind of dialogue beforehand was very, very valuable, and as chief of staff, I would make sure to feed that down to our leadership team to make sure. Okay. In this segment, you must hit on this. You have to answer this question. So it was very valuable, those exchanges.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Yeah, that's a great point.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

And then what do you do after board meetings? Cause we had a whole kind of debrief outbrief session as well. Is there any followup after a board meeting

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Um,

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

trip to the bar? Yeah.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Definitely.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

um, Tim will normally brief the leadership team, you know, kind of on what was said decisions made and direction going into the next court.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yeah. Yeah. It was funny. I, uh, an older place we would have, we would have a board meeting on like a Monday or Tuesday, cause people just wanted to get it out of the way at the beginning of their week. Then we would go to a place called the keg, which is a steakhouse. We would have nachos and other liquid libations and then on Thursday, Friday of that week we would have recovered and we give an all company meeting, which was a condensed outbrief of our board meeting. So that was board week. It was, it was a very eventful, um, rollercoaster emotion, motion time, but, uh, very cool. So.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

thing I think in this, this might be valuable for people who don't have a chief of staff and are wondering like, what, what is the value of the perspective is you're oftentimes blind to, um, The way that people receive the message.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yes.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

so, you know, the board meeting, you're communicating in a much different context than you are internally than you are externally. And so one of the things, um, I found is, you know, Natalie takes the notes on the meeting. And we have to, uh, for compliance, you know, put certain things in the notes and make sure that, that, uh, you know, that's all good. But the future companies that may want to buy us are reading the notes. And so, you know, the problems that we talk about in that meeting may want to be identified as more generically in that than specifically. But then you want to be very specific when you're talking about the problems and challenges with the employees so that that feedback loop is clear and they know what we need to improve. then, um, uh, along the way, the way that you give feedback to it, uh, you know, it really can impact the motivation of the employees and they may not tell you right there when you say, Hey, I need you to change this or do that, but, uh, Um, Natalie is very good about coming behind that direction and saying, Hey, how did that make you feel when you did this or that? And then, so there's somewhat of a HR component to a chief of staff where they got your back and they're, they're looking for your blind spots because you may think that. Everyone's rowing in the same direction and you walk out of that room and you just threw a grenade in and, and you don't, you won't know until it blows up, but it, but a good chief of staff will recognize that and either come behind you and, and, and translate. What was meant, um, or I'll allow you a second time to say, Hey, you know what? I think, uh, maybe we should, we should come back and, and redescribe that in a way that it's going to make people feel better.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yes. And that's important points to highlight because so many times it is, we would, we would prep messaging and the CEO would think this is a great message. I'm like, you're going to piss off, you know, operations team if you say that that way. And so we would front run things like that. And so many times. I can't even tell you. I mean, Natalie, you probably know this, but so many times people wouldn't air their grievances in front of the CEO. They'll be like, Oh no, like everything's fine. No, that's great. That's fantastic decision. And then behind closed doors, I'm like, how can this be, how could this be possible? How can this be happening? And so me, you know, Packaging that message and delivering it in a way that's going to resonate with the CEO, but hey, you know, we might have some additional feedback here or hey, like Houston, we have a problem. Um, and then allowing the CEO to sometimes come back and say, let me, let me kind of clarify what I said before and answer some, answer some good questions that I've gotten through the grapevine. But Natalie, what's your, what's your take on all of that and your, your involvement in, in all of those scenarios?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Oh, yeah, I definitely think that, you know, I have a different relationship and people are much more, you know, free or open, you know, telling me the truth or being brutally honest. And then I can, uh, take that, that message and be able to, to gently give the feedback up to the leadership team where, um, it's impactful and it's not reactive and, you know, like we can, uh, drill down, try to understand what, Like, what are the real changes we need to make here or the message, uh, you know, if it didn't get across correctly. So I do think it's, it's pretty valuable to be able to just keep those relationships strong.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

For sure, for sure. And what kind of conversations are you two having when you meet? Is that, what is the strategy? We have some decisions or is that the tactical execution of what we need to get done to fulfill the strategy?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Both.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Yeah.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

we, we make sure to be very clear about like, what are the three things we're doing. You know, this quarter, like I said earlier, it's, uh, you know, increase the bottom line and grow our leaders to be better leaders. And so those are the two areas I'm, I'm very focused on, but, um, how that gets done is going to be through a lot of different actions. And, uh, and so, uh, we're talking very frequently day, day by day about, you know, uh, what's the expectation of these departments and are they doing it, you know, in the sequence that we want it to be done, um, So there's a lot of it's I would say it's it's kind of a prioritization of the way we sequence our actions that we're talking about because the there's less nuance and what we're gonna do, you know, once we know what the outcome is, there's there's kind of a clear path, but it's more of well, what's the priority this week and next week on how we do that?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

And if there's any challenges or roadblocks that emerge, you know, kind of off the cuff or, you know, in the week, then we can pivot or, you know, change what, what we're looking to do and, and adjust that

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Has there been a time when you had the strategy, you had the tactical execution, and then something out of left field, something unexpected and a wrench got thrown into your gears and you had to pivot really quickly? Has there been a time when you're Oh, let's huddle up on that because we need to reassess and adapt

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

A few wrenches.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

That was Yeah, that's pretty frequent. What happens is there's no lack of opportunity where we're at right now. And so, you know, it's incredible to be in a business where every day you're getting just piles of opportunity, but it. It creates an environment where you do have to make some rules around this. I'll give you an example. So this week, right now we have Shaquille O'Neal in our Vegas office. Mr. Beast was there for three weeks. We just had Chris Stapleton in Nashville. We're having these, we just did this music kind of concert in Tampa. It we're having these, um, great things happen, uh, every second that you could stop what you need to do and should do to, uh, You know, try to grow something that really should be more transactional. And so we do have to question ourself back to the bigger strategy. Is this just an opportunity that is a shiny object that we we don't need to focus on? Or is this a scalable, repeatable thing that will grow our business and be aligned with our strategy? And I think Natalie has a really good way of making sure we don't get too excited about the shiny and stay focused on the bigger picture.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

so the company doesn't suffer from shiny object syndrome ongoing. But Shaquille O'Neal, that sounds pretty cool. So that's a big, that's a big get big win. So Tim, if you were describing to another executive, Hey, you know, here's what a chief of staff is. Here's why I think one would be valuable. What types of, what would you say to convey what a chief of staff is and the benefit that you've had from having one?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, I would say that in many ways, the chief of staff is the key partner to the CEO to communicate the vision across the company and align all the departments to work together. And in many ways, um, they are the proxy that, that is the, the vision. And so, you know, what, what I feel, uh, defines what Natalie does, uh, many times is, you know, uh, she is me in the room when I'm not there. And, um, when you have that kind of relationship, it really allows you to scale what you do as a CEO. And so, uh, you know, it's, it is a vital position. Most people don't realize they need it till it's almost a little bit too late. You know, they, they burned a couple bridges or they, uh, you know, weren't as organized as they need to be. And so they are scrambling to find that, that helper. And what I would encourage people to do is if you don't have an executive assistant already, um, but you find yourself that you don't, you don't have all the bandwidth to do the things you need to do is start off with someone part time just to see how the help. Gives you leverage to do the things that are, that are the most important. And, and a lot of times the first thing is just administrative, you know, there's just like answering emails, doing, um, uh, calendar invites, helping with the admin side. But, uh, once, once you start to see the value of that, it becomes very obvious the value of what the chief of staff role would be, um, in a much more, uh, higher, uh, form. Uh, of a, uh, CEO partner.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Okay. And it seems like you've used that EA to chief of staff track a couple of times. And, and so from my perspective, someone can absolutely go from a successful EA to a successful chief of staff. It's not a given and it's not the only route, but are there certain types of EAs that you're bringing in with the sense that maybe this person could turn into my chief of staff? Or are you saying bring in a really rockstar EA and then see if there's upside once they get in there?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, um, it is important to note the context of the type of businesses that I come from. So I'm, I'm generally, you know, in startup, high growth, creative businesses. And so in that you're, you're building the team as you're going. So you're building the plane you're flying on. It's, it's a chaotic environment. And so that again, that trust building of the executive assistant helps form the chief of staff. But I would say in bigger organizations, you probably don't have that type of life cycle. You're already in a structured environment, it's organized, and it just needs someone to come in and, and make it better. And so, um, I would say the The key thing that I'm looking to hire for is never really specialty or intelligence in a specific thing because it's very generalized. You have to know a lot about a lot, but I'm always looking for attitude and energy, and if you get someone that has a good attitude and they have positive go getter energy like they're going to figure it out, that's such a scalable person. And so. One of the other things I've noticed, and I kind of figure this out in retrospect when, um, Natalie and I were, we're looking at the staff and the personality types of who we've hired the, the chief of staff tends to be a supportive personality type where they are encouraged by, um, helping and being a part of the mission. But they're, they're not the ones with the ego to get the credit for it. Or, uh, you know, uh, want to naturally be the leader of the company. And so what, what happens with that dynamic is it pairs really well with the CEO because they feel fulfilled helping the CEO get to where they want to go. And, um, and so I've just seen that in the last two chief of staffs that I worked with is that personality type was so, uh, helpful to me and the transition that each of them have come through is because they've been in, in such a leadership role during that experience that then, you know, they've transformed to more confident and a more, uh, leadership driven personality type. And so I would say I've, I've been really encouraged to see the transition that, um, Natalie went through that like today she's a different person than, than we hired three years ago. And it's because of the experience she went through to get where she is today.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

I like the complimentary personality types of the low ego behind the scenes. This is where I like to be and operate and then pairing that with kind of the visionary. I'm going to go out there and, um, you know, be influential and all those things. So I think when you can get a pair like that, who recognize. What I am and what you are and how we work together and make each other better. I think that can be a really dynamic conversation, uh, combination. And I wanted to go back to one thing you mentioned, Tim. So you said, you know, Natalie has my proxy. So when she's in the room, it's like me being in the room. How did you get there? Was that automatic or did people have to kind of test and say, Oh no, when Natalie says something, Tim has her back. What was that process like?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, um, it was gradual. So I would say, uh, in the EA role, you know, um, she's seeing emails and we're at a very accelerated pace, uh, of growth. And so, uh, you know, every day analyzing hundreds of emails and, and what's coming in and how I'm responding. And then it got to the point where she would just respond to it, you know, and it was just, it was Flowing naturally. So the, um, the type of mindset and decision making is so similar that now not only is she talking like me online and emails between employees, but, uh, going to all the leadership meetings. And so now she's, uh, you know, making the same decisions that I would make. And so there becomes this comfortability with the staff to say, Hey, this is very similar behavior that we see with Tim. Similar decision making. And so, um, when they see that level of alignment, it's very easy for them to understand in their mind that that is the proxy, you know? And so, uh, I would say that if you have a chief of staff that doesn't have that level of alignment, when a tough decision comes up and a decision is made that, that doesn't feel like what the CEO would be done, that's when things come into question. And, and we haven't had to experience that because I think there's just been so much alignment between Natalie and myself.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Interesting. Very cool. And then Natalie, if you were giving some advice to an aspiring chief of staff or a fellow current chief of staff about the role and partnering with the good principal, what, what top one or two things would you share?

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

I think, um, first, you know, just building like that deep relationship. I think we are able to work so well together because we have trust and, you know, we built that, we took time to, kind of walk before we ran. And then I think also just having, you know, a flexible mindset being really. open to jump in, help anywhere you can take on any project. Um, you know, nothing is too small. Nothing's too big. And just, um, you know, being really flexible, I would say, just, there's lots of context switching throughout the day. There's lots of fires to put out. There's lots of, you know, jumping around and just tackling. So, uh, you know, being proactive, being flexible and building your relationship.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yes. And trust is a huge one. And everyone mentions that. And I a hundred percent agree. How did you build that? Build that it seems like it was organic over time so it might be hard to describe but I remember like art my CEO and I worked together before, and we had both worked for the private equity group that was that was on our board, and so we kind of had a shorthand with those folks but we had a new. And so with him, I wanted to build that really close relationship. And so just for fun, one of the things he and I would do would go play top golf and we would just have rounds of top golf and, you know, we'd be golfing and kind of chit chatting about different things. But that outside of the work, um, experience and time with him really helped build that relationship and accelerate that. So just curious if there was anything like that or if it was just kind of, it's just how it unfolded. Okay.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

it happened slowly over time and, uh, you know, I worked really closely with his previous chief of staff and, uh, was close with her. So it just kind of, you know, was like a true friendship that grew. I think sharing an office helps, you know, we're kind of, uh, we're in close contacts all day long. So, uh, we've just had time to build it.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Shared office would do that for sure. That would accelerate a lot. So.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

too, going back to the, the perspective of the CEO that the, um, when, when you get into those moments where you're like, okay, this is, uh, you know, this could be a culture breaking moment, or this could be a big mistake by the CEO and the chief of staff comes in and points out the blind side. That is a big moment of trust, right?

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Oh yeah.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

there's a vulnerability for them to communicate what the staff is trying to say in a way that wouldn't reveal that, um, you know, uh, to compromise that. And so, you know, you start to think about the, the level of like algorithmic thinking. To go, okay, here is, uh, you know, what's been done. Here's how people are reacting to it. Here is the outcome. And then, and then here's all the things I need to do to make sure they're happy. He's happy. The board's happy. Um, so that there. There's a thing that Alan Watts wrote on this. He's a, uh, like an English, old English philosopher. And he said, There once was a man who said, So, it seems that I know that I know, but I'd sure like to see the eye who sees me, so I know that I know that I know. a chief of staff helps you know that you know that you know.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Wow.

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

it's It's hard to understand it until you see it, but it's like when you're so convinced you're right, and then you realize there's another perspective, it's like, oh wow, that's, I'll never not want to have that in the room now, because it's now that I know that I know.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Yes. And again, a mark of a strong leader because it's easy to have ego. I have the right way. I have the right answers. Um, and it's easy to put yourself in that isolated position where no one is going to question you. And you're like, I'm the greatest thing ever. But to bring someone in. Who a major part of their job is to call BS on you and say, Hey, like, let's come over here and have a chat about this. Like you need to really take a look at this. I think that's, um, just a mark of a, of a strong leader. So yeah, I love that quote too. So Tim, Natalie, if who is the, who is the user who would be interested in view? Like what type of people are you working with or companies that you're working with?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Well, a lot of, um, who we're working with today are, uh, universities, higher education, that they're, uh, they're looking to train of what the future of production will be, which is certainly moving in this direction of virtual production and having these digital backgrounds. Um, I think a lot of. Uh, fortune 500 and corporate companies that have had, you know, green screens or some of the older technology, they're looking for new and better ways to make their videos. And, and this is an incredible product for them as well. So it's, um, what we're finding out is, uh, you know, it is still a very new market. And, uh, every day we're getting new use cases for it, but it's certainly, you know, the background is 50 percent of every shot. And the more you can make that, uh, interesting and compelling in their videos, I think the better that, uh, you know, those, those products will sell and it'll help those businesses. So I would say it's, uh, it's a lot of the corporate education now, but continuing to grow in other spaces.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Wow. That's so amazing. Yeah, I'll have to, yeah, I'm interested in all this stuff. So, um, if someone wants to find you, what is the best place to find out more about view or connect with one of you?

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Yeah, well our website is view.network vu.network and you can check out our products and some of the stuff that we have going on there. Um, uh, if you wanna reach out to us, uh, uh, on LinkedIn's, probably the best. Um, Natalie and I are both on there and, uh, and yeah, just appreciate the time today. It's been a good conversation.

emily-sander_1_07-12-2024_100521:

Beautiful. All right, Tim, Natalie, thank you so much.

natalie-piekarski_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Thank you,

tim-moore_1_07-12-2024_130521:

Thank you.