Leveraging Leadership

How a Principal and Chief of Staff From T-Mobile Started Venture Forge

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 145

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Emily Sander talks with Adam Maddock and Marcus East about their careers and roles at T Mobile, highlighting Adam's background as a Marine and his role as Chief of Staff and Marcus's position as Chief Digital Officer. They discuss the importance of trust, integrity, and the strategic impact of the Chief of Staff role. The episode also covers their new venture, Venture Forge, which aims to democratize wealth creation by supporting underserved founders with funding, resources, and a supportive community.

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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 


Time Stamps:
02:05 Role and Impact of Chief of Staff at T-Mobile
06:15 Adam's Military Background and Leadership Style
09:20 Transition to Corporate America
23:50 Founding Venture Forge
27:25 Democratizing Wealth Creation
40:07 Importance of Early Hires
45:06 Overcoming Funding Barriers
50:16 Role of Advisors

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

We have two incredible guests today. Marcus East is a technologist. He's held roles like CTO, CIO, chief product officer, and is a venture capital investor and holds a variety of board seats. And Adam Madduck is a co founder and CEO of Venture Forge, a marine. And a practicing stoic, and they first worked together at T Mobile when Adam was the chief of staff and Marcus was his principal, but welcome both of you to the show.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Thank you. Thanks, for having us.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Thanks, Emily.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

So Marcus, I know it's been a few years, but can you recall what the team structure looked like at T Mobile and how you situated everyone, including how you fit in the chief of staff role?

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Absolutely. Yes. So first thing to say is that for me, the chief of staff, is really a critical role as part of a leadership team. And so, um, in my mind, whilst I had a number of direct reports who are all VPs or SVP, so senior execs who ran large teams, of staff was really there to act as a force multiplier, not only to help me do a better job of the things that I was doing, but also to coordinate. Um, and in this specific example, when we're talking about Adam, his leadership expertise and, um, you know, bringing that fantastic background, being a veteran of the US Marine Corps, he really helps to organize that team. And so it varies. Many people have different approaches to how a chief of staff works. But for me, it is very much that like a deputy. Who is there to act as a force multiplier, help the rest of the team to maximize its impact and output whilst at the same time having some special responsibilities. And so a bunch of functional reports who were doing things like engineering and design and operations where the chief of staff role? fitted in was really making sure that there was coordination across all of those different teams. And also driving, because we had a very large team with thousands of people, um, communications. And the final thing I will say, because I could talk about this for hours, is also acting as the eyes and ears on the ground and helping me as the executive to understand what was happening across quite a large organization. So that's a quick whistle stop tour of Chief of Staff from my perspective.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Thank you. And if I have it right, you were the chief digital officer. Is that, was that your role? Okay. So you had a very large organization and I'm curious, did T Mobile, um, I know there's multiple chiefs of staff at T Mobile. Was there a blueprint or any guidelines for how to utilize this role or was it group by group? Yeah.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

So yes, there were guidelines. It's fair to say that there were, um, JDs that were sort of coordinated across the organization, certainly during the time that I was there. And there was a chief of staff organization that was kind of led by the CEO's chief of staff. So there was some pretty good coordination. However, that didn't necessarily mean that all executives use their chiefs of staff in the same way. All the, all chiefs of staff were equal. and I do think that it's such a critical role. And I think the skills to be a good chief of staff are very specialized. And so you can have a blueprint and you can have a framework, but that doesn't always mean that it's easy to execute against it.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

I'll talk to you in a second directly. But, uh, Marcus, it seemed like you used Adam as, as. Overarching and seeing across department lines. You had your functional groups, but someone to connect the dots and bring that all together to be your proxy eyes and ears where you, you just couldn't be all of the time. Did you see. Adam, as, as another member of your executive team. Was that kind of a consigliere advisor role? How did you view him in terms of the team structure?

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, I think a conciliary advisory role is a good way to think of it in that on the one hand. And to be effective, I don't think the chief of staff can be absolutely burgeoned and overwhelmed with the same sort of day to day operational responsibilities as other members of that executive team. But they have to be senior enough that they have credibility and are seen as a peer of those people. And you know, Adam did that very well um, therefore created a lot of value not only for me, but for the whole organization.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

And what would you say the main benefit of having a chief of staff was if you were talking to another executive thinking about bringing on this type of role, what would you say? Here's the main thing I got out of having a chief of staff. All

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

main benefit really is that force multiplier. I believe that as an executive, you are able to have more of an impact to be more connected and to deliver more value by having a chief of staff that is helping you to execute the vision. way of thinking about it is that as an executive, you typically have to context switch from being very strategic. maybe spend half of your time in board meetings thinking about the strategy of the company as well as the strategy of your organization. And then half of your time doing the sort of more tactical day to day things, operational things. And it can be very hard to bridge those things purely from a time perspective. And the Chief of Staff allows that to happen. They are always looking for that connection between the strategic and the day to day operational. And without a Chief of Staff, my view is that it's very, very difficult. to be a successful executive.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

right. So Adam, I will stop talking about you. Like you're not here. Um, thank you for being on. So I'm always curious people with a military background. Um, how did being a Marine once a Marine, always a Marine affect your leadership style, your relationships and interactions with people in the, in general, but in the civilian sector, in the corporate world?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, absolutely. yeah, I agree with Marcus. This is a topic we could talk about for a while, and it's it's very interesting about dynamics inside a corporate environment. For me, this was my first corporate experience. I was in. I was in the Marine Corps for almost 8 years and then came out of. That, uh, experience went and got my MBA and then jumped right into corporate America. And so it was a, it was a quite, uh, a big difference, but also there was a lot of things that were similar. So it's not, it's not as massive as, as a jump, as a lot of times it can, it can seem, uh, and I think a lot of that comes from, you know, the core essence of things you learn, as, as a Marine, as a Marine Corps officer. Um, and one of those which directly apply. You know, the chief of staff role is, you know, Marcus touched on it. There, there's this. Balance between being strategic thinking and tax law execution that you have to shift between a lot as a chief of staff, have to sit, you know, in high level meetings, understand, um, conceptually what's going on throughout the organization and just an. You know, Marcus's organization, you have design experience, uh, the, the software development, engineering. Um, and then you had all of the cultural pieces that go into that. Right. And so, you know, for me, one of the things that I learned most poignantly about being a Marine is that there is a massive amount of delegation down to the lowest levels of the organization. Um, you know, in the Marine Corps, we call them our junior leaders, our enlisted staff. Um, carry on. if not all the work that happens, right? Like the actual execution of the work. Um, and I'd say that's very similar to, um, America in particular, where we were at T Mobile. Uh, however, like that only works if you are allowed that delegation of authority, right? And so this is where I, I struggled with, with corporate America, you know, and T Mobile is a big corporation, lots of layers, layers upon layers. Um, and. Within our organization, really putting a premium on, uh, understanding and Marcus heard this from me a lot, like commander's intent or the why or purpose, right? And so people understand the purpose. People understand the why we're doing the things that we're doing. you throughout the day to make hundreds of micro decisions. your own, without seeking approval, because you know that intent of this decision that I'm making ladders up to my bosses, my leader's intent, which ladders to or her leader's intent. Right. And so to me, that was coming out of the Marine Corps. I was blessed with that education of. Growing up as a young adult in an organization which demanded that leaders pushed down, uh, decision making authority to the lowest levels.'cause that's how the operation was set up, right? That's how the organization ran. That's how the organization, you know, succeeded or failed, was based on that, that, uh, lines of, uh, delegation authority. And so, coming into corporate America, coming into a position where Marcus gave me a ton of autonomy to build this role, uh, pushed very hard for an organization that. communicated what the purpose of the organization was, what we're doing, our mission, uh, which then, you know, Marcus's direct reports lead their teams with a certain amount of autonomy, knowing that they were up to and laddering up to Marcus's vision. And that, you know, an ideal world trickles all the way down to the lowest levels of organization. was my biggest thing coming out of the Marines, because that's ingrained in you on day one of officer boot camp doing that. And so that's permeated for sure. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

It's funny. I was talking to a U S Marine colonel, chief of staff. So chief of staff in the Marines, and he mentioned commander's intent as well. And he also said, Emily, look, it's people are people wherever you go. It's relationships. It's being, and he was a diplomatic kind of embassy attache. So all around the world. And then he moved to corporate where he was dealing with a global organization. So being able to talk to lots of different kinds of people and really understanding what they're saying, what they're not saying, what they want, what they care about, and he said, that was a. Pretty much a direct transfer. So it's interesting that you mentioned commanders in 10 as well. And also some of those other concepts that move over, you were also a social aid to the president and first lady. So I'm wondering, you know, what, what was that experience in the Marines? Did you, what was that like? Where are some insights from that experience?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, that one certainly gets all the, uh, the press for sure. Um, Marcus loves to talk about that as well. And it was, it was an

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Ha ha ha!

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

right? Like I had just come back from combat deployments in Afghanistan in my first sort of, um, four year contract and then re upped and then found myself at, uh, the Marine barracks, Washington and DC, which part of that duty was as the social aid, um, To President Obama and First Lady Michelle. So it was very much a ceremonial post. A lot of the work that work was done prior to the events. And during the events, I was a public facing figure for representing the Marine Corps. Also, our our uh, with President Obama. Foreign heads of state, dignitaries, any sort of event that the president or first lady would host at the White House. And, um, it was, it was an amazing experience, not only from a, you know, personal, personally, but just being able to represent, uh, the organization that I loved, uh, the country that I love, uh, and to see how. peek behind the curtain, really how the most powerful person in the world operates when the cameras aren't on. Um, and

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Right.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

understand the dynamics of that were fascinating.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

So at like a state dinner, what would you be doing? Is that a function you'd be attending?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, we did. We did quite a few state dinners. Um, and so each each, uh, Socially, or each branch of the armed forces has social aids that fill that role. Uh, and so there's every, every branch of the service of represented in those. And we do a lot of, you know, prior to the event, working with the social staff, working with the Secret Service, working with the, all of the layers of logistics that are happening there, understanding the cadence of events that are happening down to the really the minute for the president schedules down to the minute. It's insane. Um, and then during the event. Executing whatever plans had there, you know, a lot of photo lines with the president, um, everyone wants a piece of the president's time. So you're really managing that flow of people and, uh, it can get pretty hectic there, uh, as you can imagine. But, uh, just, just a fascinating, fascinating experience.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Wow. That's a unique experience. Yes. Okay. So you were Marine, you were a social aid, and then you moved to T Mobile. I'm wondering, do you remember when you first heard of Marcus or met Marcus and your first impressions, what was that like?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. I, you know, I was told. You know, from my very early upbringing to be wary of people with British accents. You know, we were, that was

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Ha ha ha ha ha!

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

uh, I think from 1776 onward. But, uh, as, as we all are, we're all mesmerized by the accent. We, uh, it's hard, we

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Ha

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

get

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

when Marcus was brought on board because we were very much, um, the digital team was very much a sub group of the company, right? And so it was really seen as, you know, big moves for T Mobile, really graduating, bringing on, um, Uh, our first chief digital officer, which was, was Marcus, um, and the background that he had. And so right away, cause I was not in a, uh, uh, formal chief of staff role. At that time, I was in a strategy role on the team working for. Uh, which was soon to be one of Marcus's direct reports and doing a little bit of chief of staff work off the side of my desk for the, the VP that was running the team at the, at the moment. so bringing Marcus on board, seeing his credentials, seeing what he had done, uh, you know, I watched all of his speeches and stuff online. I was like, ah, I'm looking forward to meet this guy. Um, because, you know, if I'm going to go for a chief of staff role, assuming that he has one, to me, it was as much interviewing him as he was going to be interviewing me. Um, because this role only works, right? If there's a strong

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Two ways. And then did

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

and the chief of staff, it can't just be one way. Otherwise, it's a struggle and job is hard. And it's, it's, it's a great job, but it's not worth it. If it's, if it's that hard, if it's, if it's a struggle one way or the other. Um, and so, to me, like, I poured through his material, uh, and then got to meet him a few times as we went through the process. But, um, uh, I will say it was, it was a great fit. I've enjoyed working with Marcus so much so that I'm, I still am. So, uh, that, that was my first impression. And when, you know, my mindset there.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

you say you applied for the role or did you kind of get tapped on the shoulder for it? How did that transition happen?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. So I appreciate that about Marcus. Like he won, he made it a, an open call. Like we had been, I had been working pseudo in the role. Uh, that I was in with Marcus, the same kind of like pseudo chief of staff, kind of getting him integrated into the team, into the company. Uh, then he had an open, uh, process, um, and. Went through a whole loop with H. R. and other his direct

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Okay. Okay.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

that was important for me to have that happen, right? Because it's not again. It's not just a really well, the relationship between the executive and the chief of staff is important. And what I tell chiefs of staff all the time is if you're going through the interview process, ask to meet with or interview with their direct reports as well. Not only

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Yes.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

make you look really good, but that relationship needs to be strong from day one. you need to be building a relationship starting day 1 with his or her direct reports to make that job work. Well,

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

And then once you guys were paired together as principal and chief of staff, do you remember, you know, an initiative or a challenge that you work together on and, and found a good path forward together on

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

yeah. And so I think what Marcus brought to the table was a lot that we didn't have previously. Certainly it was a lot of focus and rigor on, you know, the. The metrics that matter and in charting your your progress, and I think it sounds so simple. And like, why didn't we have that before? But like, really, you know, pushing the organization, the broader T Mobile to adopt some rigor around our goal setting process and our OKRs and a ton of rigor about being open and honest with the communication. I think you meet anyone at T Mobile that. Had got to interact with Marcus and he very may be the most open transparent executive to Being corporate America, like it was such a shock to,

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

it's quite the mantle, Marcus. Well done.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

seriously, like experience as someone who had open office hours, open Q and a's open, uh, ask me anything's open town halls that were not just once a quarter, right? We did this like every other week we were doing things where people could sit

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Wow.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

of Marcus and talk and they weren't recorded there off the books, right? It was just a chance for, um, Uh, Marcus to get in front of the staff, because, you know, if there's one thing that happens as you go up in the organization, this was also ingrained from Marine Corps time, right, is that get further away. those that are actually doing the It's not

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Yeah.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

It's just, it's just what happens, right? And so those moments where you can get in front of people, the staff, those that are doing the work is so valuable, not only for the staff, but, you know, in this case for Marcus as well, and for his staff to hear how people are feeling and answering questions. And it was a great blueprint for others because you saw his staff then doing these things that he was doing. Right. And so to me, that was such a good introduction of how to join a company and join a team to get people on board, uh, is to, is to do those things of kissing babies and getting in front of people and really, and really, uh, communicating who you are and what you, what you want the team to be the vision for the future.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

I think there's saying that I'm transparent and I have an open door policy and then there's actually doing it, which can be two very different things. So it sounds like Marcus hit the mark on both. So Marcus, another word that gets thrown at you, And then the next question is how so with Adam, how did you, maybe it just happened over the course of time, but how did you build that trust where this person has my back? I can be fully transparent with him. I can toss them anything I need to over the fence and it gets done. How did you build that part of it up?

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

That's a great question, um, Emily. I think that some level it comes down to the human chemistry between two people. Cool. And so I will tell you that when I first met Adam, it was entirely on, um, zoom on video conferencing. And I found it very hard to really, um, understand what was going through his mind. He's a low reactor, um, it comes to, to video conferencing. And so in some of those conversations, it was kind of hard to gauge exactly sort of what was happening. And this was during COVID because, you know, this was early 2021. Yeah. However, when we then got together in person, there are a couple of things that really stood out to me. Um, one is that Adam demonstrates in everything that he does integrity. Now that is very rare in corporate America, I have to tell you. so somebody who does what they say they're going to do and will always do the right thing even when nobody's looking is a rare thing. These are values that I hold dearly and so I could see those immediately in Adam. Not only from how he behaved, but also how other people talked about him, the respect that others had for him. And so that allowed me to have that foundation of trust. But then there was also, I think, The natural process of spending time working together, um, tackling some challenges, working on things like the digital dashboard that I've talked about, the metrics that matter. Seeing that he was someone who would very quickly understand the mission and then organize and mobilize. Uh, without a huge amount of oversight to then go away and execute. was very, very powerful and led to a lot of trust. And then the other thing I think that led to trust was success. And I always say this when people ask me about, Hey, how do you build great teams and, you know, what are the tricks of the trade? Actually, the best way to build a great team and great relationships is through success.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Hmm. Yeah.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

winning that I believe that people develop the strongest bonds and relationships. Yes, you might learn a lot from losing. But you're going to build the bonds from winning. And, you know, those early days when we were making that pivot from what we used to joke about as little digital that was kind of in the corner. I mean, I'll tell you a quick story, actually. one of the first town halls that we organized, one of the questions that came in from the audience was about, the organizations, the company's commitment to digital. And this person was pretty frustrated and basically said, Hey, this company doesn't take digital seriously. The leaders don't understand it. Digital is never really going to be a thing here. And I said, and this was early 2021. No, I believe that the fact that I've been hired and that we're bringing together so many different parts of the company to form this new big digital team. I believe that's a testament to the fact that we are serious about digital. now looking back after nearly three years, we went from people thinking that digital was a little thing in the corner that wasn't taken seriously by the leadership a place where the company's actual strategy. Is to be digital first the work that myself And Adam and the rest of our team did led to that point where the CEO of the company goes out and talks about wanting to be digital first, very different from where we were three years ago, and so the connections that the people working on that made are indelible. You know, these are connections that, in my opinion, will last a lifetime.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

And when you're in the, you know, forging that fire where you have to create something and build it in a very short amount of time, I think you do build those bonds. So thank you for that. And I wanted to ask about trust because it's not everyone you turn around, look at and say, Hey, trust me. Do you want to start a company together? Because that's a pretty, that's a pretty close meaningful relationship. You're often spending more time with that person or those people than your own family. So, um, you two are co founders of Venture Forge. So I want to definitely get into that. How did, how did that come about? What is Venture Forge? Why did you create this company? Give us a snapshot of that, please.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, of course. So over the last decade, whilst obviously I've been an executive and have had very demanding job was one of the areas in which I've derived the most joy, um, is investing and also advising founders and helping them to be successful with their companies. And so I've also been fortunate that some of the companies that I've been an advisor to or a director of have done very well. One of them was sold for over a billion dollars. In 2023. And so what I realized as I was leaving T Mobile was that because I get so much joy from doing that and because I do believe that entrepreneurship is the engine of this economy here in the United States, I wanted to do something that would help people. To realize their entrepreneurial dreams and that I believe the entrepreneurial spirit exists in all people from all walks of life, but not everybody has equal access to the opportunities. So what was funny is that whilst I was thinking about this and whilst I was developing ideas and thoughts around, you know, how could you bring this to life? was actually on a road trip. in Europe, um, and was pretty much uncontactable, but I was sort of drip feeding to him little snippets of the things that I was thinking and things that I was working on. He would every once in a while come back with a whole bunch of ideas and thoughts. so amazingly, we had this period where we were driving towards the vision where we were on different continents and where we are in different time zones. the alignment around wanting to do something that had a positive impact on the world, whilst at the same time having the potential to be a good wealth creator for the people involved in it, was, um, a very compelling mission. And as soon as Adam got back from his road trip, he hit the ground running. Um, and very quickly got to the point where he really became the driving force behind not only the vision, but also the operations of what is now VentureFortress.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Oh, interesting. So what are your roles in VentureForge today? How do you split those responsibilities,

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, so Adam is the CEO and I'll let him talk a little bit more about that. And I am the chairman and

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Chairman? Okay, yes.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

the chairman and CEO role and the principal and chief of staff role. And what I see is, is Adam has really grown in the last few months into this CEO role. and become a very strong, very directional leader in a, in a corporate setting or in a business setting. What's fascinating is that me as chairman, I have to focus on the strategic piece and then have to think about how I can allow Adam the space to be able to actually go and execute, even though the initial ideas and some of the initial thinking. You could say came out of my head, but now it is a joint mission, a joint vision, and one where Adam is in the driving seat and my job is to provide support and oversight, uh, and to make sure that we achieve together that mission.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

And I appreciate the mission and vision of VentureForge. What makes your company different than all the others out there? What types of things differentiate that in the market?

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Adam, you want to take that one?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Absolutely. So, know, we've we started this journey back last fall. Like Marcus said, it was around September, late August, September of, you know, we we envision a world. Where wealth creation is democratized for all founders. We believe in capitalism. We believe in, you know, venture capital works. It is a wealth generating machine. It, some of the greatest social inventions, technical inventions ever made have come from, you know, early seed founders getting the funding and supports. Uh, an access to build their products like we see it all the time, right? But what we've found and as we dug into the data, as we've looked at, um, you know, our own experiences that everyone has that same access to those things. Some people get lucky. Some people have great networks. Some people, You know, put in the work and go to school and, you know, a lot of risks and it happens. But by and large, there is a, a, from the data shows there is an underserved population in this group, whether that's military veterans, whether that's female founders, people of color, um, financially disadvantaged. People from all over this country, really the world struggle with that access to funding support, um, and resources to make it happen. So, you know, fundamentally, we believe in a world that wealth creation is democratized, and we do that through our mission of enabling founders to forge their ideas. impact. And so, you know, that is our rallying cry. That's our mission, forging ideas and impact and naturally venture forge came out of that. So it's a, you know, it's a, is a movement that is allowing and will democratize wealth creation for all founders and to ensure that, know, this next generation coming up is able to access resources, support and funding. to see their products and experiences become a reality and change the world.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Well, first of all, Venture Forge is a great strong name. So well done. Whoever came up with that. Um, and then who specifically, like what type of person or company or, or entity are you looking to have come to you? What would be kind of your ideal person you're suited to serve?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. And it's, it's, it's a great question and something we, uh, we talk about a lot, right. And because it's, it's, it's an interesting concept. What we're doing is our mission is to mock our mission is to have, uh, Founders forge their ideas and impact. And we, we do that through, uh, three programs that we have in place right now, and the first is a digital community for founders, right? So all founders, um, experience or can experience, you know, a founder is lonely. I'm experiencing it, you know, right now. It's hard. It can be lonely. It's hard. Emily, I'm sure, you know, you experienced

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Yep.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

you've been figuring out, you know, how to podcast, how to create a movement of yourself, uh, as an author, and as a, as a, as a podcaster, as an educator, um, it can be incredibly hard. Disheartening and lonely at times. And so we wanted to create a community of founders that can come together. You can, um, you can lean on each other. You can ask questions. Uh, you can find potential co founders of, you know, you're not a very technical person and you, you need someone to, to come on this journey with you. Uh, you can find them there. You can reach out to subject matter experts. You can access and videos, you know, just a place to be a founder. That's. As Marcus calls it low salt, right from from Reddit, but a place that's just, um, that you can be you and ask the questions and get the information that you need. And so that that's for all founders, right? And like all founders need that at one point in time in their journey. Um, uh, the second part of that is what we're calling venture starter, which is for us a brand new thing on the market, which we're really excited to, to, to get out there in the market. And it's, I'm sure you're familiar with Kickstarter. Um,

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Yep.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Um, the easiest concept people understand. And there's also a company out there called WeFunder, uh, which does a very similar thing. And the difference between us and a Kickstarter is that we are focused on those individuals that we're calling funders that exist out there that believe in our mission. That believe in, um, early stage startups mission of achieving, you know, that, you know, that early stage momentum that are a lot of, um, uh, founders struggle with both a financial aspect, from a resource aspect and network aspect, they struggle with that. So here funders can come on and shop a marketplace type aspect like Kickstarter is and donate tax exempt, um, donations to founders that are building their venture, right? And so it allows them now to be connected with that company as they go through, they can, you know, in later stages, they can choose to invest, they get updates from these companies. And then it allows those founders to get, you know, You know, we're calling these micro grants of funding to inject into their company to not have to take out a high interest bank loan. Or in the, in the case of a lot of our underserved founders, they don't have the network that we or, um, the resources that we have. So even a little small amount of capital allows them to get into the marketplace, right? And so that's huge. Um, and then the third piece of that is, is our, it's a 12 week bootcamp Specifically for cohorts of underserved founders that really sets them up for success that connects them with a network of advisors and and resources to really their product from an idea stage, ensure, you know, this concept of product market fit exists with their product in their end user. And to get their first 100 customers, right? And so it's really engaging our network to on these founders and their ventures to really see them start to get that traction, or then they can go to the venture capitalists and ask for where they can go to top accelerators and get into those programs. So those 3 things combined is what makes us different. I think above all, what makes us different is that we are a foundation. Right. We don't have any other motivations for profit other than seeing founders succeed. Uh, and that is a huge difference with a lot of the products that are in the market right now that founders can go after. Uh, they say their founder first, they have good intentions. No doubt. I'm not questioning their intentions, but. They require you to give up part of your company, right? Which for, for a founder who you're, you're, you're chasing your dream, that can be a big ask. Uh, it's a big risk to give up part of your company. Um, and so we, we don't ask anything of founders. We ask for commitment. We ask for, you know, being involved and being, being focused and wanting to see you bring your vision to life. Cause that's what we're here for as well.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

So the three elements, if I heard it right, the first one is, uh, a place where founders can go for a community for resources. Hey, it's lonely at the top. Let me just connect with people who are in the same boat. I'm not alone. And any, any tactical pieces I need there. The second piece was, um, a platform. It seems like for funders who want to say, okay, I can look through a portfolio or profiles of different companies and founders and what they're doing. And, oh, I'm, I want to support this when I'm passionate about that. I see that they're very organized and have a game plan. Let me support that one financially. And then the third piece sounds like a more. Structured bootcamp, like a series or a sequence of these classes or, or online modules to go from product ideation to product launch, to your first hundred customers. Is that what I heard?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

You nailed it. You

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Okay. That's amazing. Okay. And what stage are you guys in with this? Is this, I guess you mentioned last September, so still fairly nascent or are things starting to launch?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. So we are making great progress. Like looking at our timeline, I was just reviewing our timeline this morning. Uh, the, the community is launching early in August, which is great. Uh, we've been working with the dev team, getting it all set up right now. Um, and we're in the process of building the. Venture starter platform, which should be done beginning. Q4 is the latest for that. Um, and that will launch the same time as our bootcamp. So it's a Q4 launch is right around the corner. Um, and so we are in, you know, build mode. We are in very soon. We're gonna be in hiring mode, which is exciting. Uh, and really, you know, full on marketing, getting them to getting the word out there and getting people excited about this.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

What does your next hire look like? What are you looking for now?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, this is, this is, it's a great question. Cause Marcus and I, we, we, we talk about this a lot. Um, uh, we look at, you know, I've, I've certainly stack ranked, but I think is, you know, critical hires for us next. Um, and I think before even talking about. What that hire is, right? It's to me, it's like who that hire is and not necessarily a specific person, but the type of person that, uh, we want to be a part of this. Like, I think Marcus and I both talk about this with a lot of passion. Right. And so I think number one, you want someone that believes in the vision, like you do in the mission was willing to put in. You know, the type of hours and effort that it takes to get something new off the ground. But not only that, you know, a not for profit off the ground, which is a unique skill set, as I'm learning very, very viscerally. Um, and so to me, like, that's the biggest thing. And like we, you know, Marcus has an incredible network of people who had been also have networks of people. Um, And so do the, you know, there's other two other board members as well, um, who have just a fantastic career, a fantastic network. So it's been fun to reach out to all of our networks and and see the high level of interest that we're getting on there. Specifically, we look at functions that we're looking for. You know, there's a running an online community. A digital community is time consuming and challenging. And that's like a brand new skill set that I'm learning. Marcus has a lot of experience building communities and is involved with a number of them for long periods of time. I'm very new to communities and so looking at a community manager that. Really understands and gets how to build community understands how to build engagement and provide high quality. Resources resources and materials to people, otherwise. No, 1's going to show up and if they do, they won't come back. So I think that that's really important and then really focusing heavily on, um, uh, from a. storytelling aspect, a brand and storytelling aspect, a marketing aspect for this, for this movement that we're creating, uh, at the end of the day, what drives people to be a part of the movement is the belief in the end goal, the end vision, right? We talk about commander's intent again here, right? So it's that belief in the commander's intent, that belief in. to donate my time, money, resources to this requires, you know, a very high level, a high degree of storytelling and ability to convey that vision to someone who either doesn't know about it or, you know, maybe apprehensive at first, you got to overcome some significant, um, hesitancy. So those are the two things I'm looking at up front.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Yeah. I mean, I think a big part of launching a product is to create that narrative where you can tell the story to a lot, lots of different constituents and stakeholders, depending on where they're coming at it from and having that be. A compelling, relevant story to them. So maybe, I don't know if that's in your bootcamp, but that's what I see early stage entrepreneurs. I mean, they know it, but they have to package it in such a way that other people can easily understand it. I know some people who have been deep in the engineering and coding of this product. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you can't talk at that level. You've got to bring it up here and tell the story. And they're like, Oh, okay. So I think that's an important piece too. Yeah.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. absolutely. And Emily, if I may, just to build on what Adam was saying, um, going back to your question about the first hire. One of the things that I've seen over the last decade, and I'm a, I'm an angel investor as well as a limited partner. So I actually one of those people that funds the venture capital funds like Greylock, for example. what's been interesting for me is realizing that. As an organization grows, those first few hires, not only do they need to bring specific skills and competencies, but they will define the culture of that organization potentially for the next couple of decades. And so one of the things that's very important to me personally is, as we think about the people that Adam will be bringing on board, We want to make sure that they will add something to the culture as well. Um, and it just gets you thinking about, you know, cultural fit versus cultural add in that my belief is that in a, in a small growing organization, getting the right hires who not only bring the skills, but also bring something that's going to enhance the culture is critical. And I see that for some of the companies that I maybe invested in, you know, seven, eight, uh, 10 years ago that are doing really, really well now. Yes, they had a great product and they achieved product market fit. And all of that was very, very positive. But they also had leaders that were very intentional about the sort of organization they wanted to create. And, you know, we mentioned integrity earlier. I will tell you that one of the organizations that I'm on. the board of, leaders of that organization have demonstrated integrity from day one, and that has led to some real challenges for them. But the fact that they've done that is one of the reasons that right now they're being so successful. And so that's what, as Adam and I work together on VentureForward, that's one of the things that I'm excited to consider as well.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

I think that's so important because in the startup phase, the hires you make can, can make or break that company. I mean, I've been in an 11 person startup and you know, everyone, everyone knows everything. And what you, the environment you come to work every day is, is a big piece of it. And yeah, I've, I've worked for a number of companies that were private equity backed, so a little bit further down the life cycle, but, um, yes, certainly there's been leadership transplants. We'll say in terms of, Hey, let's do this. Turn this culture around and um, that can be important as well. I'm just curious. So I was speaking to a colleague and she's kind of in the VC world and the early stage world, and she's passionate about helping, um, female minority founders. And her original idea was to create a VC firm that helped That audience in that group, but what she found was she could get the first round series a, but then they would be less likely to get the second round of funding because people thought they got the first round just because of that. So then she was like, okay, let me rethink this and maybe come up with a consortium of people who are trying to help different people. So I was just wondering, kind of toss that out and see what thoughts are, you know, if you, if you could help someone like that, how would that go?

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah, very interesting. Adam, you want to go first on that And,

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

we hear the same things. Um, I've been talking to a lot of my, uh, Marine Corps peers and just veterans in general, because that to me, that's a huge cohort that Could, you know, leave the military, uh, in the, a lot of the qualities that make you successful in the military translate pretty directly to how, if you're successful as an entrepreneur, like I think veterans have a six or seven X potential to be more successful entrepreneur than. Not veterans, which I think it was the latest stat, which is fascinating to me because not a lot of veterans go into, to be in entrepreneurship. So that's one of our target audiences for sure. And so I was talking to two of my friends who, um, have left the Marine Corps, become successful entrepreneurs, sold a company. And I was asking them about like, would you join a program like this? And there was definitely hesitance. Hesitancy to exactly what you just said, like, I don't want people to think I just got selected because of, you know, fill

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

and that's, and that is a, a, um, a very real and visceral challenge that, um, know, whether it's, um, actual or not, it's real to the person. Right. And so I think you've just described a scenario where it actually is. It's real from a funding aspect as well. And, you know, for us, that's something that we talk about often because we don't want it to be, you know, we say underserved and part of our job is to define what that means. Because that's a shifting target, right? The reality is the data shows there is underserved populations. You know, that could be, uh, financially disadvantaged. It could be, uh, military veterans. It could be female women of color right now. Those will always be shifting. And so it's on us to continue to look at the

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

How do you overcome that? Sorry to jump in, but how do you overcome that? Because my instinct is like, well, then you help. Like you add, you know, you give them opportunities to do their thing. I mean, how do you overcome that?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. I think you look at it as part of the job for the team and part of the job for the founder is to really convey, you talk about storytelling, right. Is to convey the merits of. The work, the company demonstrate that the company is, is what it says. It is not, you know, it's not a handout. It's not, it's, it's not a, you know, it is a charity, but it's not a charity. You know what I mean? If you're, mean? Like, so it's not, it is, you know, incumbents on founders and the teams that supporting the founders to demonstrate that there is no substantial degree of merit and worth behind the company. Um, and that is, that is, that's part of the challenge and it's a welcome challenge for sure.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

I think a big part of it is storytelling and being able to, when you get called to be able to step up and swing away at that. But the other piece is you have to have that at bat, so to speak, you have to have that opportunity. If you can, you can have the greatest company and be the greatest founder and tell the greatest story, but if you don't have any opportunities, I mean, you're just out of luck in that sense. So I think maybe it is, it is, Companies like venture forge who are saying, okay, we will give you that opportunity. You have to step up into that and perform by merit, but we can connect you with the right people for those opportunities.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

great point, Emily. Um, You know, what's interesting for me is this idea that our, our vision, this vision of democratized wealth creation really means That we want everybody who feels that entrepreneurial spark, and we know that that exists in all walks of life, should have, as you described it, opportunities. And so where that leads to us threading the needle is that, from my perspective, that means that today there may be an underserved community that needs some additional help. Tomorrow that might be a different underserved community. And the challenge that I have with some of the VC funds, for example, that have set themselves up specifically for a very, very tight, tightly defined demographic that over time, you know, that will change. also, an exclusive approach at some level, and this might sound counterintuitive, but bear with me. Because we want everybody to be able to. to be involved in the early stage ecosystem. And so, you know, I'm excited to see white male founders as well as female founders. It's just that some of the programs that we're developing are going to address a specific gap that we see right now. And that may be for veterans or for female founders, for example. Um, it doesn't mean that we exclude from that the opportunity to work with others. And so that's why I think it's very important that the community that we have. And that we are building could potentially have a much larger cohort of people in it, then we'll be eligible for some of the programs that we run and we're super comfortable with that because we want everybody to get value from the work that we do. The other thing I would say is that many organizations have gone straight to the idea of let's set up a fund because we need to give these people money. founders money is not the only way and potentially not the best way to support them. And this may also sound counterintuitive that. Some of the most successful companies that I've been involved with actually haven't had a huge amount of funding relative to their peers, but what they did have was fantastic sets of advisors. They had a really strong network of people who were introducing them to potential clients. Um, they built a really, really strong culture that was sustainable and over a period of 10 years, you kind of bet on those companies. More than the companies that just went out there and raised a lot of money. And so one of the concepts that we talk about a lot at VentureForge is this idea of investment ready. In that we believe that by making an underserved founder investment ready, that's how you then unlock the potential for them. And the best thing for them is to be able to raise money from traditional sources. If we can take a founder from an underserved demographic, that's how you then unlock And we can make them investment ready, and we can allow them to get that bank loan, or we can allow them to get money from that super angel, or we can allow them to get money from a mainstream VC, then they're set. And to the point that you were making earlier, when people then look back at their series, uh, at their seed rounding or their series A and say, Oh, they raised money from big Silicon Valley VC company X, it's gonna allow them to be more successful in the long run. Versus just giving them some money now from a special fund. potentially actually makes it harder for them later on. So it, look, this is a complicated, area, and it's a complex problem, and, um, people are going to come at it from many, many different ways, but we think we've found a way to thread that needle and get to the people that really need the help.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

That makes sense to me. You're, you're prepping them to be able to get the traditional sources of funding. That makes a ton of sense to me. And just to, to piggyback on something you said, if someone is listening and they say, look, I don't have the funds right now, but I would, uh, I would Love to mentor, or I do have this specialty. Is that kind of, um, like a bucket to item where you can go on that platform and say, Hey, I can raise my hand for an advisory board seat or whatnot.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's really, really valuable. You know, I maybe in another podcast can talk about how it's so critical to founders to find the right advisors and supporters. unfortunately, I've seen many founders who've gone out of the gate really hard and they've got a bunch of advisors, um, you know, on their cap table who don't do very much and maybe don't bring the kind of value. I've been an angel for a long time. I've been an advisor for a long time. You need to be there at two o'clock in the morning when the founder is having an emotional crisis and isn't sure what to do and wants to just throw everything up or feels that one of the co founders is out to get them and that, you know, bad things are happening or one of the other investors is doing something that they don't understand. the organizations and founders that don't have access to that kind of support find it much harder to navigate these, these difficult, choppy, challenging waters. And so finding the right type of advisor is essential, and that's one of the core things that we want to do with VentureForge. Um, if every founder that comes into VentureForge can, through the programs that we put in place, find one or two advisors that can be force multipliers for them, then we'll be a long way towards achieving our vision.

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

Beautiful. I love everything that you two are doing. I'm in huge support. If someone wants to reach out to one of you or learn more about venture forge, where's the best place to go?

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah. So right now, um, we have a holding page up that we'll, we'll soon go live here in the next month or so, uh, but venture forge. org, uh, and feel free to reach out directly to me, Adam at venture forge. org or Marcus at venture forge. org.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

We will have

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

who wants to help.

squadcaster-8f3h_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_07-31-2024_113353:

beautiful. We'll have those links and your emails in the show notes as well. But Marcus, Adam, thank you so much. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

marcus-east_1_07-31-2024_113352:

Thank you. thanks Emily. Enjoyed it.