Leveraging Leadership

From Office Escalations, Cybersecurity Attacks, to Surviving Mergers Without Losing Your Mind

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 175

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Emily catches up with her old boss!

Amy Martin talks about her journey from 30 years in HR technology and customer-facing SaaS roles to becoming a career ownership coach. She shares stories about staying calm during high-pressure moments like client escalations and cybersecurity incidents, her empowering leadership style, and advice for those dealing with big changes, difficult personalities, or considering a career transition. Amy also explains how she helps clients gain clarity using tools like DISC profiles and personal SWOTs.

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Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

01:09 Amy's Career Background and Mentorship
05:43 Handling Pressure and Client Escalations
09:48 Dealing with Strong Personalities
12:54 Navigating Change and Mergers
17:43 Career Transitions and Coaching
22:01 Holistic Career Coaching Approach
24:16 Becoming a SCORE Mentor
27:37 Success Stories and Client Transformations
33:55 Personal Motivations for Career Change

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

We have a very special guest today. Amy Martin has joined the show and, um, Amy, it's amazing to have you on my podcast and it's kind of a, um, an unexpected but very cool circle of life Simba situation we have here. So Amy is here and she is my former boss, but thank you so much for being on the show.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm so proud of you having your own podcast and your business.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Thank you. Yeah, definitely. Your mentorship during my mid career was no joke, like instrumental and put me on a trajectory to do good and great things, after, after we parted ways, but so thankful for you even today,

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Thank you.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

so why don't you give folks a little bit of your background just for context, and you can certainly include like the highlight of your career, which was hiring this amazing manager of your deployment team. Um, and how that changed your life. So

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

know who you are and what you're up to.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

yeah, exactly. So today I'm a career ownership coach, but that is fairly new for me and we can get into that a little bit later, but where I spent most of my career, which was about 30 years was actually in HR technology primarily and running customer facing teams. So. Things like professional services where you and I met, things like account management, uh, customer success, anything that's like client facing is where I spent most of my career. in that primarily in software companies. So a lot of. SAS companies, fast growing, lots of change. And yes, we had the pleasure to work together at one of those companies. Um, when I was running professional services and you came in as again, an instrumental leader to take over the deployment team, I think is what we called it at the time.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

We did. Yes. Yes. And you have been just. You're exude leadership and calm under pressure and cool, calm and collected and graceful during change and all these things. So it's really been, I had a great example to learn from at that point in my career. And one of the things you, you did, and I was reflecting back on this was you allowed people to be self sufficient and sometimes you just kind of step so far back that they had to Solve a problem independently and like, Oh, I could actually do that. I remember, I think it was like my first week and I was pinging you over and over again, because my previous boss was one who wanted to know about every little thing and you had to check in with them about every little thing. And you just didn't answer me. And I was like, what? But wait, hold on. And eventually I had to, like, come to a conclusion and solve it on my own. Uh, but that was just, that was just one example. But you did that across the board with all of your direct reports and all of the people you work with. So I was wondering, is that something you intentionally do? Is that something that you just kind of do out of habit at this point?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

yeah, I think, I think it's intentional from the aspect of, always see my role as a leader to empower, meaning like I want everyone that works for me to have the training and the tools to be able to do their jobs fully. And then I'm there as a leader to remove obstacles. I'm always there as a sounding board, like love to brainstorm with people. But. You know, I hire smart people to do smart things and you've got to trust your team or you're not going to get anywhere. And especially as I was managing larger and larger groups, like, I really had to trust the people that were in those spots. I hope That everybody that worked with me knew that I was there. I was never going to not be there for people, but I gave them the time and space to do smart things.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Just to be clear, the example I gave, it was something that I should have solved on my own. It was not like, it was not like, oh my gosh, you left me hot and dry. But I also remember, like, very clearly, just to be candid, during one of my performance reviews, one of the pieces of feedback you gave was, Emily, I need you to take this and run with it. Like I need you to be like, be confident in your decision making skills and make these types of decisions. I need you to step up and be able to do that. And I obviously remember that conversation, but it was, Oh, I am allowed and expected to step up. And so I'm going to do that. And you were great at leading. Leading me in that direction as well.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah, I appreciate that. I do think, unfortunately, know, some leadership styles work for some people and, um, there are people that feel like they need to be micromanagers and that's how they've been successful leading. I'm the complete opposite. I usually tell people if they ask me about my leadership style, I'll tell them I can micromanage, but I hate doing it. And if I have to do it, it's because something's really off track. So, For people that maybe have, you know, worked with other leaders that that is more their style. It probably does take some time to adjust and realize like, yeah, you've got leeway and please take it.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

It was night and day difference. Yeah. It was a breath of fresh air once I figured out what was going on, but it was very important to me like, Oh, someone who trusts me to do things and make and make executive decisions. So

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

amazing. Another part that I always remember about you was just cool under pressure, cool, calm, and collected. And I remember this, it was a client escalation. I don't even remember what client now, but it was a client escalation. And it was one of those things where internally. Uh, like people made a mountain out of a molehill. And so like 18 people from our company were on this call. And I was like, this is ridiculous. This is way out of hand. And even the customer who got on was like, why are there so many people here? And you like. I won't mention names, but you are getting grilled by a whole bunch of people, like internally, externally. And I remember, like, my inside voice was like, How dare you? How dare you talk to Amy that way? You can't do that. And I was Skyping Angie and Christy. Um, shout out to Angie Gruber and Christy Perfetto. And I was like, how is she doing this? Like, she's so calm. And they both typed back and they said, that's just what she does. And then someone else said, that's just who she is. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, if that's just who you are, and that's just what you do, this is easy. But I was wondering if you could, Maybe explain, try to explain to other people how you stay calm under direct challenge and pressure.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. It's amazing what you remember. I do not recall some of these situations and I guess, fortunately or unfortunately, I've been in a lot of those situations and thinking about it a little bit. I think part of it is where I started early in my career, which was my one of my first professional jobs was I was on a help desk, an IT help desk. so I remember my

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

not know this. Okay.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

then was like, Be friendly, be calm. Like someone thinks it's the end of the world that at that time, you know, they couldn't open their spreadsheet or whatever it was like calm and like you'll work through the situation. I think the other thing, so that was like a good foundation. And then I did a lot of project based work. Right out of college with really tight deadlines, you know, project work, typical, like the deadlines are unrealistic. You have to put in extra hours. Um, so just knowing that you can work through stuff. And then finally. I've never had a job where we were saving lives. And so remembering that, like, no matter how bad it seems, like whatever happens, it is not a life and death situation.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

going to die on your table. Yeah.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

yeah, exactly. So, I mean, there are some jobs of course, that do have to rely on that we haven't been in those jobs. So I think it's that kind of stuff. Um, I can tell you. One of the situations that I was in after you and I worked together is we had a cyber security incident at one of the companies I worked for and I can tell you, like, that calm under crisis was like, it took every ounce to go through that because. It was super high pressure and no one, you know, we were all new to it as far as actually going through a situation like that. And, um, but that was the best thing showing up for our clients, not over indexing on it's an emergency, even though it was like as close to an emergency as you get. Um, But we worked through it. And I think the, how you handle those situations are what people remember. They don't necessarily think much about the incident, but it is how you react. And I think with life in general, you have to remember, you always get to choose how you react, no matter what.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Oh my goodness. Yeah. Such good advice. And yeah, I mean, cybersecurity, certainly not life and death, but Pretty critical to that business. I mean, a cyber security attack can take a business down a whole bunch of different ways. So yes, I didn't know that you worked at an IT call center. That was, that must have been early on.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

was my internship in college when my first ones. Yep.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Oh my gosh. Okay. I was at a call center for like a local newspaper. I did not come out of that the same way you did. I would panic when there was something wrong, but clearly you had a different approach. Um, You, we also, both of us, all of our team dealt with strong personalities. So internally, externally, just, you know, like you said, people who think things are like the biggest deal in the world and it's my way or the highway. And like, no, did you hear me? It's my way or the highway type of thing. And again, we were, Firm and fair and just dealt with those situations and those people. And I'm wondering for anyone listening who is dealing with a strong personality, what advice would you give them? Cause you were so, you were so good.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

So I think that's the nature of dealing with people. You're always going to have those people in your life. Um, hopefully to a smaller degree versus a greater degree for most of it. But I had advice to give, it would be again, 2 things. 1 is you get to decide how you respond to them always. If you can realize that how they're treating you, how they're reacting probably has more to do with them than it has to do with you, then you can probably have more empathy for them. So, you know, like, wow, they must be really miserable if this is how they're reacting and that's their thing. It's not your thing. And you have the power then to, Empathize with them, figure out the best way to get through what you need to get through. But you don't have to feel or behave the same way people do when they do stuff like that.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

I remember you were talking me off a ledge one time and you said something similar and you, and I think you kind of said, You know, in some ways, like, I feel sorry for, for this person who's behaving this way. Um, and I was, I was like, I cannot get there. I cannot feel sorry for this person because they're making my life so miserable, but Amy's on a different level. So I just recognize, okay, she's there and I understand that. I'll save that for later. And I always have remembered that. But uh,

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

yeah.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

it's not always

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

But

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

right? Like in the moment it can be really difficult, but if you can have that sort of in the back of your mind, then like when you have a moment to step away, you can probably re re engage with fresh eyes.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

it makes so much sense where, you know, how you, what you think about yourself reflects how you show up in the world and how you behave towards other people. And, and when you see it through that lens, it's like, Oh, wow. Like you, you must be really angry and you must be really miserable. It must be very insecure in a lot of cases too.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

that's right.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

um, that's just, it's enlightening and also Puts a little bit of distance between it was like, okay, this isn't happening like at me to me personally, they don't know me as a person. This is just more about them. So.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

that's right. Yeah. And it's probably some fear that's, you know, like surfacing, um, that, um, and I'm sure as you're coaching people, you know, talking about how that can show up. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

It's a human being a human. And I always tell people like humans have a lot of range. They can have a lot of range and their emotions and how they swing back and forth between things. Speaking of that, we also went through a pretty significant change in our company. So I remember 90 days to the day that I was hired, we had a merger acquisition, a major merger acquisition announced. And that was, um, I remember the announcement. We had a surprise visit from our new CEO, and then my team was like, almost in tears because they didn't know what this meant. They had never been through it before, and I had, so I took them in a side room and kind of explained what this meant to calm them down. Um, and you were doing the same thing at your level, but how do you, how do you approach navigating change and making sure leaders are helping their teams navigate change as well?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah, I think that's something you were excellent at, which was always really getting front in front of those things as much as possible. And like, you're such a strong communicator that, you know, building that trust with your teams and I'll say, like, I think having trust, um, that was one of the mergers and acquisitions I had been through. In now I've left corporate, but during that time I was, I've counted them up. It was 10

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

No

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

mergers and acquisitions. I had been through

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Wow.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

both sides of the table. And so what I've learned the most from that. I think is that if you see change as an opportunity to learn, guaranteed that will always happen. You can always learn something.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Sure will. Totally.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

what it is, sometimes it's what you don't want, right? Sometimes it's like, oh yeah, been there, done that. I never want to do that again. Um, and sometimes it's opportunity. Sometimes you learn that there's more opportunities. So I think, Not prejudging not again. It's like not just because you hear something suddenly deciding that it's the end of the world without having all the information. Because the other thing that happens, especially in those big mergers and acquisitions like that is the plan that starts off at the beginning is usually not the plan that you end with. Right? Like, it's like, Oh, it's lovely. It's all scripted out. It's going to work exactly like this, inevitably, because then the people get involved. It doesn't pan out that way. So, you know, I think my best advice again for leaders is to make sure that you openly communicate that you don't, know, BS people either, that you tell them like, Everything is not going to stay the same. Like there will be change, but we don't know what the change is going to be. And when we do know what the change is going to be, we're going to communicate it. Like, that's the best thing you can do for people.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yeah. And I mean, that one was tricky. I I've, I've been through like six or seven mergers and acquisitions. You've got me beat at 10, but sometimes you're blindsided. Like people legitimately, they walked in to work. And, um, I remember someone saying, like, I saw this like strange woman in the bathroom and she was dressed the nines and like, she didn't work here. And she was actually the new CEO who was getting ready for her big announcement. But I mean, what happens when. A team or an individual does get blindsided. They're just like, I'm like, speechless because that's how some of my team members were. Do you kind of allow them just space to like, go through what they're going to go through at that level?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

I think you need to. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I think, I think they, You can't stop people from having those initial reactions, but like once they have them, I think then guiding them. And even if as a leader, you don't have the answers, you have enough experience in those situations to say, I I've been in situations too, where it was, I was blindsided, right? It's like, Oh wow. I had no idea this was going to happen today. And so it's okay to have the unknown and it's okay to say, normally here's what sort of transpires, even if you don't have all the answers.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

And I think you were very good at communicating with us and our level of leadership, what was going on. And honestly, I remember being in some of these meetings with, initially it was with the consultants and the new leadership team and like the global PMO group that we were now integrating everything with. And I was like, this is crazy. And it would change like seven times in two days. And so I was like, okay, how do we communicate? What's happening to our team. And it was, I think the guidance you gave us was, you know, what's relevant and what's going to be helpful for them. Um, and if it's not relevant or helpful, then, you know, don't share it, but that's at your discretion. And that was a good, a good lens to look at things through as well. But, um, sometimes these big changes lead to career transitions and career opportunities. And that's kind of what you've gotten into now with your coaching business. So can you tell folks what, uh, what you're up to now?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah, so, um, I decided at the beginning of 2024, came to a point where I'm like, I don't think corporate is right for me anymore, but I wasn't quite sure what was next. luckily, I knew this great person who I had worked with before.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

There we go.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

and I reached out and I was like, Hey, I know you started coaching, but like what sort of people are you coaching? You know, would I be a fit as a client? And I think if I recall, it was like around the February timeframe that we maybe did our first coaching session together, which it was great to reconnect with you in that way. And honestly you were super, it was perfect. It was exactly what I needed. Um, I had gotten certified as a coach like 2005, think. And so I knew what coaching was. I had adopted a lot of it and how I managed people. And when I got certified, I was like, yeah, someday I'd love to have my own business, but wasn't quite like. I stayed in corporate. I had a great, you know, great opportunities. Yes, there were frustrating times, but overall worked with great people. I liked what I did, but beginning of 24, got to that point where it's like, I don't know if this is for me anymore. I had been through another merger and acquisition and just wasn't sure. So. Reaching out to you is perfect because it really allowed me the time and space to talk through things and and figure out what I wanted to do and forward to March and I found myself, um, not necessarily the timing that I selected, but I. Exited my org and the great part was I felt like with the work I did with you, I was at a point where I was like, I'm not going back to corporate. Like that is the right answer for me. I don't want to stay in corporate, but I still wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And so opened myself up to a lot of learning and exploration and like, Fast forward. I won't go through all the details of things that I looked at, but found a coaching opportunity, um, franchise. So, um, as a career ownership coach, I'm a part of the entrepreneur source. So they've been in business for 40 years and, um, every coach runs their own business. So for me, I really focus on working with corporate professionals and those that are at a point in their career where sort of like me, they're not quite sure what they want to do next. Like, they have a lot of experience. They don't know where they want to go, so I really work with them to empower them. To break free of corporate constraints, take control and, you know, with clarity, move forward and really reach their full potential. So I've been doing it, um, now since July and it's fantastic. It's, I love working with people one on one. I love being able to help people when they're at that point where they're sort of like, I don't know where to go. so it's been great.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Wow. And you're so well suited to it as well. Um, just so folks know, are you working with people mid career? Is it late stage? Is it just at any point? Really? Is it a certain industry or?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

So any industry and then I would say it's mid to late career. Um, you know, I, can work with anyone, but sort of my ideal client is you've got, you know, 10 to 15 years of

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yeah,

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

just so that, um, you have some idea of what you like and what you don't like.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

totally. And it sounds like, I mean, it seems like You have, you have a career and a solid skill set and almost even an expertise. Sometimes, sometimes you're a generalist, but sometimes you're an expert. And it's like, where do I go from here? Do I want to continue with that? Do I want to do something brand new and totally different? I'm just at this crossroads and it might be from someone's perspective. Own volition, or it might be, you know, something else happened where they find themselves in this position, but you kind of meet them there.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

That's right. Yeah. And I like to say, um, You know, I'm definitely not an executive recruiter. I'm not working on, like, give me the job title you want and I go find it for you. I like to say I take a step up, which is what do you want out of life? So not what do you want your next job title to be? But what's that holistic picture of what you want things to look like? And then we start to brainstorm on. Okay, if that's what you want, yeah. do you get there? What tools can you use? What avenues can you take to get there? Is it your next corporate job? Is it something more entrepreneurial? Like what can make up and sort of meet what we call your North star? Where are you going to go next?

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

It's like, what do you want your life to look like? And then where does your career fit into that? Because a lot of people do it the other way around where it's like, here's my career, and then my life can kind of fit the side pockets of that thing. Um,

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Exactly.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

so that's a, that's a great way to look at it. And then if someone were to engage with you, what's the first step that they would go through in the process?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. So we do an introduction call. So just a brief introduction call so that, um, it's definitely a two way street to make sure that I'm a good fit for them. They're a good fit for me. That's like 15, 20 minutes. And then from there we would start in with that really specific coaching process.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yeah. And then. I'm curious. So you've been a leader in all these corporate environments. How does that inform what you're doing now?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

yeah. So what it really helps with now is understanding the landscape that people are coming from. So, you know, um, when people are talking about, oh, you know, the deadlines, the performance reviews, the, you know, rounds of layoffs, like, I can relate to all of that stuff quite well. What's different about it, though, is. You know, as you build your career in corporate, you become an expert, you become the person that, you know, whatever your area is, they come to you and are asking for your opinion for your, like, how are we doing this? And so, as you know, it's different being a coach in that you're asking a lot of questions and, you know, you believe the clients have all the answers. They just need the right question to be asked. So something else. I just actually completed this week. Is there's an organization, part of the small business administration called score and score offers free services to small businesses and mentoring free mentoring to small businesses. So I just got certified as a mentor with score so that I can still like provide that sort of,

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

That's so cool.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

you run. Here's how you run customer success. Here's what you

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Oh my God.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

And, um, it's an amazing resource. Not a lot of people know about it. So when I have clients that are looking to start businesses, I refer them to score quite a bit as well. So now I'm pretty familiar with the resources they have.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yeah. And if someone's like, look, I'm like kind of at a blank slate. I have no, I have no even idea of where do I go next? Is there any sort of like assessment or just kind of set of questions that you take them through at the beginning just to give them something?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. So two things that I start every client with one is a disc profile

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yes.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

really use that yet for communication style. And of the things I love about the disc profile report that we use is there's a page that says value to the organization. So like people that are unsure, like maybe they've been beaten down. Maybe they're in a environment. It's like, there's this one page is like, remember how great you are. This is all the

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yeah.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

about you. So we do that. Yeah. And then we do what we call you 2. 0, which is like, okay, you're from now. Where do you want to be? What does success look like? And that holistic picture, not just from a work lens. And then I call it a personal SWAT, which is, you know, where are there dangers? Where do you see opportunities? What are your strengths? And those two things really lay the foundation for how we start coaching.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Wow. Okay. So, and that's at the, towards the beginning of the process. They get that right away.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

That is the very 1st coaching session that we have. So they're assigned that homework ahead of time. And then we covered in that 1st session.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

You know how I love disc. I love disc way back in the day. I even ran it for the reports and I remember, uh, Felicia, Felicia Sterling on my team printed out the, how her style likes to be communicated with, as she put it on her, On her desk, anyone on her cubicle wall. So anyone who came to talk to her had to like be standing right in front of that page of the disc report. So I was like, that's fantastic. Everyone should do that.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

is awesome. Yeah. Well, and I think when people start to understand desk, like you can understand why it was hard to work with certain people. And again, it's like, it's just a different style. So yeah, I think

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

And I remember we went to New York. Remember that, uh, workshop we went to, it was like a half day workshop and they did a, like our disc reports. And then they did a whole presentation on this and we went to little groups according to our style. And there was, was it Mike who was like all by himself. I think he was like, I or something. It was the only one. And he was standing by himself. Um, that was a, that was a fun trip and I love that part of the workshop, going through our disc profiles. And I remember someone walked up to me from this, from the sales org and was like, Oh, Emily, that's why you get pissed at me when I write you emails like that. I'm like, Mm hmm, that's right. Yes. Here's how you do it.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

exactly. Here's my preference. Please adhere.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Bullet points, not a novel. Don't write me this new book for more on peace. Just bullet points. Ask me to do something. Don't tell me to do something.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Right.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

All of those good things. Very cool. You have um, like a, I know it's relatively early on in your business, but like some examples or a success story of someone that you helped or is going through the process.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. So, um, I like to think I've had quite a few successes, some smaller, some bigger. I mean, the way I measure success really is that a client has more clarity when they're done working with me than when they started working with me. So. I'd like to believe that every client that I actually coach, you know, more than that intro call actually learned something and has more clarity. A couple significant things are, um, I've had a couple of clients that were looking for jobs for a long time, not much success. Um, you know, the market is tough right now. So, um, just some of it, a lot of it actually is mindset work. And so just getting out of. a space of fear or a space of, I'm not good enough to really like get that confidence and get back out there. So I've had several clients that were, you know, looking for jobs for a couple of years, six months, they've landed jobs. So that's been fantastic. And then. I had a client that for two years, she described herself as apathetic. Like just know what to do next. Didn't want to engage and she started her own business. So that was super exciting. Yeah. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

lots of good success stories in there and like different directions to it's like, okay, searching for a job for years, which is just like emotionally draining and devastating in its own way, even though it might not be perfect. People don't hire you for many, many reasons, but man, that's, that's tough, tough road to go on. And then someone who's like, I'm doing something totally different and starting my own business, which you and I can relate to now, but that's a huge, huge step. It's like people ask me all the time what it was like. And I tell them it was exciting. And terrifying all at once.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yes. Yes. Completely. I totally agree. Like it's exhilarating and it's terrifying all at the same time.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yes. So how far do you work with people? Are you helping them stand up that new business? Is it the decision to go in a certain direction?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. So once they've sort of gotten to that point of clarity, we'll call it where it's like, this is what I'm going to do, then that's normally where I close things out. And that's also where, you know, a coach like you is fantastic for people that maybe want ongoing coaching, because I'm sort of there for, you know, Roughly a shorter period of time, but I think there's absolute value in coaching ongoing and so once they've decided in even people that are, you know, looking for a job, I don't stay with them through their entire job search, like if that's what they want to do and they have clarity on the type of role and like sort of that North star, like don't compromise, you know, or if you do compromise, understand what compromises you're making because sometimes you got to take a step back. Step in the right direction. You're not going to get there, you know, all at once, but once they get to that point, that's usually where we will, um, we will part ways at that point.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

So you're there for that critical decision point, kind of where people are pretty vulnerable to, they might be a little scared and vulnerable, and you're so good in those situations, just making people feel comfortable and at ease and in good hands. But you're there for that point, and then you're setting them up to go off and do what they're going to do.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

that's right. Exactly.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

From all the, from all the clients that you've worked with, are there, are there some common themes where, okay, here's like some general advice I would give anyone in, in this kind of uncertain situation, I'm, I'm sure there's lots of them, but even just one or two that you can think of.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. I mean, I think a couple of things are for people that are in the job market. Um, don't think that sending out 200 applications on LinkedIn is the way to go. Like literally, I have people that say that's what they're doing. Last way to get land a job somewhere is to network. That continues to be the best way to do it. So. I always say if you can get in the back door, that is the way you want to go because the front door is flooded and it's flooded more so today than it ever has been. So like, if you're down that path, that would be my advice. second thing is about mindset. It is about like, you really need to be in a place where you're open to opportunities, where you're like, thinking. Of course, I can do this. do get really run down, I think, from environments that they're leaving or, you know, maybe sometimes have left unexpectedly. I've not been a choice and sometimes you need to take a moment to reset yourself before you're ready to go into the next thing. And I think that time, while it may seem like I don't have a minute, you have a minute. Take it because it'll help. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Pause for a second. And I'm curious too, so the people who are deciding and have that itch, like, what if I did start my own thing? Like that's totally new and different, but I guess that's, An option right now. I mean, you and I have been through this. I can just briefly say, you know, I was, there were so many good things about corporate and I got to meet so many fantastic people and work on so many really cool projects, but there was part of me that just was like, I'm done. Like I'm, I want to work for myself. I want to make my own decisions. If, if. I make a mistake. I want it to be my mistake. And I want to be able to control my own destiny to, um, to a higher degree. And those were like some of the things that just prompted me. I also, in the back of my head, I was like, Emily, when you're 80 years old, and you're like on the rocket, you know, on the, on the back porch on the rocking chair and all the what ifs are going through your head. If you have the, what if I tried that coaching thing? What if I went all in on that coaching thing? And I didn't know, and I didn't have time. No, I was like, Nope. Decision made. I'm not gonna allow that to happen. So those were like some of my motivations. I'm wondering like what yours were and then how you kind of coach people through that process.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. I mean, for me, it was probably a little bit different for me. I needed more flexibility in my life than I had. Um, so my daughter has some special needs and she's got appointments. She's got stuff going on that. didn't want to apologize because I wanted to prioritize her so it is, it was about the control. It was about, but it was about flexibility. And it was about just knowing what I wanted my life to be different than what it was. Um, And I too had great experiences, worked with great people. Um, but I've sort of started to feel like been there, done that. And I remember talking to you. when I really realized that for sure, the right answer was to leave corporate was when I started to have initial conversations about going back to corporate and I didn't have many, but I had a couple where I talked to, you know, different leaders. And. The prospect of doing a job that one that I had done a bunch of times and could certainly do again. sort of made me feel ill, like there was no excitement whatsoever. I was like, I obviously, I could do that. That is not what I wanted to do. So those were some of the motivations for me. Um, and then I think, I think that is common with like clients that I talk to that do, um, start to seriously consider starting their own business. It's, it's comes down to a couple of things. It is about normally about control over time and schedule, wanting to prioritize something different in their life because of where they're at versus where they may have been historically, wanting to generate. Income that is more directly correlated with what they put in versus, you know, maybe working 80 hours and getting the same results as if next to them put in 40 hours.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yeah.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

So it's those sorts of things, but I always say, I mean, everybody's at a different point in life. Everybody wants something different out of life. And, but the commonality is, I think wanting. More control in whatever way that might be. It might be hours. It might be money. It might be flexibility. And then, um, probably some other aspect of life that they just feel like is missing from what they do today.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Yes. Oh my goodness. So if anyone is listening who is in this position themselves or knows someone and this happens where career transitions, life transitions, like what am I doing? What am I here for? What is this all about? What do I want my life to look like? How does my career fit into that? Let me get clear about priorities and values and all those things, which by the way, change from when you're a teenager to twenties to thirties to forties, right?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Right.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

that's something that we talked about. And, um, I think that again, you're so just well suited for what you're doing. And you were, I mean, you had coach training, so you were an official coach, but you just had a, Coach approach to management and leadership and how you conducted yourself, which was so effective with your teams, I can say firsthand. So if anyone is listening to this, it's like, Oh, I, I need to talk to Amy or, Oh, I know someone who needs to talk to Amy. What is the best place to connect with you?

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

Yeah. So the best place is probably my website. amartin. esourcecoach. com.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

Beautiful. And we'll have that in the show notes, but Amy, thank you so much again for being on. I saw this in my calendar. I was like, there's no way that Amy Martin is going to be on my podcast, but that's funny. That's funny. Things like that. So I'm so glad. So, so glad that you reached out and we reconnected. And, um, again, you've been a very strong leader and a strong, um, Model an example for my corporate career and even the things I'm doing today. So thank you. Thank you. And thank you.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

thank you. This is my first podcast experience. So it's an honor. And, uh, my daughter said she would not watch it. I told her I was going to be on a podcast. I was like, no, thanks.

emily-sander_1_12-18-2024_120351:

There's an audio version as well. So she can listen to it if she'd like. yeah, thank you so much, Amy.

amy-martin_1_12-18-2024_140353:

right.