Leveraging Leadership

Thriving as a Chief of Staff: Four Quadrants from Entry-Level to Strategic Partner

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 169

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Richard Charette shares his journey from user experience design to becoming a Chief of Staff at Wells Fargo. He discusses the influence of the McChrystal group's four quadrants model on building trust and evolving into a strategic partner. Richard also highlights the importance of extreme ownership and alignment coaching in developing holistic professional leadership like that of elite warriors.


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If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

03:09 Defining the Chief of Staff Role
11:13 Introduction to McChrystal Group
14:44 The Four Quadrants Model
21:47 Building Trust and Patience
25:37 Extreme Ownership
28:12 Service Mindset and Responsibilities
32:30 Holistic Approach to Performance
40:06 Alignment Coaching and Its Importance

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Our guest today is Rishar Chourette, Rishar, welcome to the show.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Thank you very much. Thanks for inviting.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Can you just give us some context and explain your, I think it was 10 years at Wells Fargo, and a number of those years were as chiefs of staff, various chiefs of staff roles.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Correct. Yeah, I can explain that. So my background is actually in user experience design. Um, that, that's my recent background. So probably the last 20 years I've been, uh, in user experience design. So for those of you are not familiar with user experience designs, actually, uh, Teams of people in organization that are, uh, designing the user experience for, uh, it could be digital applications. Um, it could also be physical experiences like Wells Fargo, for example, we have, uh, if you go to a bank, you have experience at the branch, you have experience on your computer, your phone. So user experience is the design of all that experience for customers. So I've been, I've been, um, navigating that space for about 20 years. Um, yeah. At Wells Fargo, I've been there for almost 11 years now, and I've started, uh, with what we call design operations. So it was pretty much like managing projects, programs, resources, budget, everything we're all familiar with in regards to user experience design. And then I would say about. Six years ago, I was asked to migrate to a role of chief of staff. So, um, what does that mean for me at Wells Fargo is that I'm supporting, I've been supporting actually throughout those six years, um, I would say for. Senior executive in the space of user experience design as a chief of staff and my responsibilities include, uh, things like, uh, helping manage their, their groups, uh, their priorities, their stakeholders, uh, working on special projects example, it could be, uh, procurement projects for getting new. Design platforms, uh, everything that has to do with legal and compliance. Uh, so the bottom line here is, is basic as a chief of staff, supporting those executive for the success of their design team. So that's what I've been doing for the last 11 years, six of them as a chief of staff.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Okay. So did you say someone tapped you on the shoulder for the chief of staff role? How did you, how did you get there? So I think you had an internal Wells Fargo position and then you moved into chief of staff role. Yes.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

That that's correct. And you know, what's really, really funny about this is it's not like it was. A position that opened up and I apply what was funny. It was actually, um, the digital group got a, uh, a gentleman actually that came in as a senior executive for one of the user experience. Groups because we have so many products, so many experiences. So that the gentleman came in and my boss at the time, uh, which was leading the operation, the design ops operation of that group, uh, was kind of trying to find a way to help that executive. And the way it happened, he basically reach out and say, what would you think if I would lend you? To that executive

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Oh.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

to actually help him out to understand, you know, the, the ropes of the way we do design ops. And I was like, of course, you know, like being in service. So I was like, no problem with that. I didn't, I didn't even think twice about, you know, what does that mean for my job? I was like, yeah, sure. I'll help him. What I didn't know at the time was that what I was asked to do was actually to be a chief of staff. So, so I went out to help that. And that executive kind of, um, was surprised number one and number two was, um, I was saying that's really nice of you guys. And then he said, what are you going to do for me? And of course it was like, well, what do you want me to do for you? Like, how can I help you? And that led to his needs and it led to jumping on different things, his priorities. And that led basically for that executive to turn back to my, my, my manager at the time and say, is there any way I can, I can keep Rashar. He's been very useful. Uh, I love what he does for me. I still don't understand what he does, but he's with me all the time. And he's. Picking up everything that I need help with and then at the time, uh, the position was created. And what was even funnier is nobody could knew exactly how to call that position. They were like, well, Rashar is going to be helping this executive and, um, What should we call it? And that's when actually we came across the chief of staff and I said, well, it looks like what I'm doing is a chief of staff role. And, uh, again, not to extend too long on that story, but that's such a funny story because people are like chief of staff, like, like, We're not the White House. We're not like, is that the right, is that the right terminology? And I was like, well, let's start with that and see where it goes. And, and then I start making, doing research about what the chief of staff does. And, uh, and then we formed the role. And, uh, and then I stayed in that role since then with that executive. But later on, I was, I was asked to do the same role with different executives. So that's the, that's the long story of it.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

No, that was great. So you actually came up with a title chief of staff. Okay. And are there other chiefs of staff at Wells Fargo or is that a brand new

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

No, they are. They are. Um, at the time, what I didn't know is that there were a few across the bank going to remember the bank is over 200, 000 employees.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Right.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

I didn't go do a research. But in our digital group, which is a very large group, there was none at the time. They were none. Some individuals actually that play the role, they just didn't know it. So, uh, and Dan in the user experience group, the large user, the design group, um, after that, some other executives came and say, Hey, I want, I want a Rishar, I would like to know, you know, I would like somebody like that. And then we decided to create, uh, I think it was at the time, five chief of staff positions within the design organization. And, um, That remained for a while and after that it kind of went away. I think, you know, that's a deeper conversation. Some of the individuals that decided to apply for those roles didn't exactly know what it meant. Um, and I'm pretty sure all of us as Chief of Staff, that's going to resonate. Either the Chief of Staff thought they were, uh, admins. Some of them actually tried to formalize the to such degree that their principal Their executive, uh, didn't want to formalize because they didn't know what they want in the first place. So, um, so to this day, they're still chief of staff, but the, that world has been shifting quite a bit in successions in succession,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

you, you worked with a number of different executives and were those in succession. So one at a time, or did you, did you support multiple executives at the same time?

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

except, except when I was lent to the first one, because I still had my manager, um, and with that manager, I wasn't actually a chief of staff. I was reporting to that manager. But funnily, um, I realized that I was already doing chief of staff with my manager. The approach, the way I was trying to help him, um, that made me realize. So at that time I was serving really two executives.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Right.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

that,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And I think you mentioned like three or four executives. So I'm wondering, how do you, um, how do you get used to with a new executive? Because that's a pretty close relationship, right? And so if you're saying, okay, I'm going to be chief of staff, I've done this role before, but certainly a different principle presents a whole different principle. Entire, uh, entirely different version of that chief of staff role. So how did you go about learning each of the executives kind of idiosyncrasies and patterns and strengths and weaknesses and all that good stuff?

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

that's a great question. That's a great question. I think in retrospect, um, I would say one of the main quality for a chief of staff, that's my opinion, of course, but one of the main quality of a chief of staff from a career perspective, not just one. So meaning throughout your career as the chief of staff, one of the main quality is what I would call having a beginner's mind, which is if you work for a principal, assume nothing. Open your mind to that principle. Because if you come from a place of ego, if you come from a place of, Oh, I've done it before with somebody else. And, um, in my experience, not a good start. So the, the rest of the secret sauce from you was, uh, when I was told, uh, from my boss to be lent to the other one, I was like, I don't know who that person is. That person probably is going to think he's my boss, although I have a boss. I don't know what he thinks. And then every time I would switch principle, I would erase everything from my head. I wouldn't, I wouldn't try to come from a place as I know what to do this. Uh, of course I do, but. I would say I don't know that principle. So a beginner's mind and beginner's mind also, I think is, is, is very much related to, you don't have a relationship with the new principle that you have. And to build relationships, you need to put your ego aside. You can't come from a position of like, you know, let me tell you how that position works. Let me tell you, you got to build relationship capital. And that's always been my approach is beginner's mind. Don't assume anything. Don't be biased. Don't, don't get attached also. I know I'm saying, I'm probably going to sound, somebody's probably going to say you sound like a Buddhist, but, but it's very true. Don't get attached to the previous principle. Maybe you like the previous principle and you're going to serve a new one and maybe you're not going to like her as much or him as much. And don't go there. Don't get attached. Open your mind. Observe, learn, build relationship capital. And if you do a good job, in my case, it always turned out pretty good. So,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yeah. I love that. Have a beginner's mind. That's a great, great mantra and approach to lots of things in life. So Rishar, can you, can you tell us how you got introduced to McChrystal's program and working with, um, with knowing about his chief of staff, Chris, and the four quadrants that they propose?

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

absolutely. Yeah. So I'm so glad you're bringing that up. So the, what led for me to find the McChrystal group is, is actually, uh, the move that my manager did when I got introduced to the chief of staff position, which is like, I'm going to lend you to help that executive. Um, I kind of wanted to know what am I going to do? And I start kind of looking and then I came to realize this is really a chief of staff kind of role in a way. At first I was like, maybe it's an assistant. And then I said, it can't be. That was my own bias. I was like, I'm not an assistant. No, I refuse to be an assistant. What could it be? It will be being a chief of staff. And then I was like, okay, what is a chief of staff? And then I ran into the McChrystal group, which is an organization, very mature organizations, solid led by, um, a retired, uh, general Stanley McChrystal. For those of you who are maybe a little allergic to the military, please don't be in regards to that. I mean, the way that the McChrystal group works, although they come from a military leadership, they've been doing a tremendous job to adapt to corporation. They're not going to try to make, you know, generals out of you. So, so I did my research and then I found Um, the McChrystal group and before I even kind of reach out to them, um, I realized that Stanley McChrystal actually wrote with, uh, is is Chief of Staff, Chris Ell, uh, books. I said, I'm gonna buy the books. I'm gonna read them if I like them. Then I'll start considering the organizations I read the book, I'm not gonna name them here, but if you look at, uh, Stan McChrystal, Stan McChrystal, Chris Bussel books, they have phenomenal books on leadership, chief of staff. Um. Team building. They have one, I think, called team of teams, phenomenal books, phenomenal books. So I read all of them and I was like, I love this guy. What do I have to offer? Can I talk to them? So I reach out to a couple of individual of the Microsoft group through LinkedIn, just connected, reach out to General McChrystal through LinkedIn, say, Hey, can We have a business relationship. I read your book. He accepted, got introduced to Chris Fussell. And then I realized that they had a chief of staff, uh, training program. And I was like, phenomenal. And it was given at the time by Chris Fussell. So I was like, I got, I got to do this. So I went and I did it and it's not very long. I mean, I think it took like two or three months. Um, I don't know if the program has evolved, but, uh, any chief of staff should go and take a look. Uh, it's phenomenal. It's not the only program, but, um, so that's what led me to go through that. Now, why would they be qualified to, to give that training? The main reason is actually Chris Possible. He's the one who actually, um, he's the one who wrote the book with General McChrystal and he was his chief of staff. So right there from the get go that gave him all the credibility I needed. Um, so I did the program with them. Phenomenal thing. One big takeaway that you, you actually did mention was the four quadrants. That was probably the massive insight for me. Um, and the fourth quadrant, if I may, is, uh, introduce that a little bit, is when, when I became a chief of staff, having a beginner's mind, you just don't know how you start. I think it's true pretty much for all of us. Chief of staff is when we get a new principal. Uh, and I want to be clear also when when I say principal, that's terminology that came from the McChrystal group. Uh, the principal is actually the executive you're serving as a chief of staff. So your principal is, you know, Your master, so to speak, right? So, um, when I became chief of staff, I didn't know where to start. And then I was like, what can I expect? And the four quadrants is actually very interesting because it's a progression. It's a, let's call it the maturity progression. And sometimes I remember jumping on so many chief of staff webinars, conversation, and, uh, some folks would say, well, that's interesting that you have a close relationship with your principal. Uh, I feel like an executive admin for mine. And there was always that kind of, well, it shouldn't be like that. And then some people say, well, but it is like that. And some people say, well, why is it like that? And why are you a partner and why I'm not? The answer to this is the four quadrants model, which is really a maturity progression. So when I started as a chief of staff, having been exposed to four quadrants, the first thing I told myself is number one, is I need to take care of all the little things that my principal needs. Okay. You know, you need your email set up. I will set it up for you. You need to, you need to know where you know where you get your badge. I'll do that for you. So that's very much kind of an admin type of job. There are menial things that I think is tripping chief of staff sometimes, especially when you're new to a principal. It's like, I'm more senior than that as a chief of staff. Why are you asking me to solve your email problems? Well, that's the first quadrant. You got to start with that. That's the trust. They call it the trust builder. If you can't do the little things, you can't do the big thing. That's a quote by many people, including General McChrystal. If you can't do the little things, you can't do the big things. So the first quadrant is very much like what we would call the, the EA executive admin type. And, and for me, there was no issue. I was like, of course it's a progression. And then the second quadrant is basically your principal starting to trust and say, could you help me set some things with. Other people. So very much show still an admin, but now you're asked not only to help your principal, but to help, um, to help his partners to help his teams. And so that's the second quarter. Now you're, you're, you're jumping to bigger things. Um, feels very much show up still as an admin. You're like, you know, when, when, when am I gonna participate in establishing the strategy or your team? Not quite there yet. So second quadrant organized bigger things. The third one. Is the place where the principal would come in here. I'm oversimplifying. I would invite every one of you guys to go take a look. But the third one is where the principal would say, Hey, do you remember that big meeting you're organizing over there with my stakeholder? Well, um, I'm gonna be late. Why don't you present that thing that I've pre that I've prepared? Why don't you run with that part because I feel you know it pretty well. So now you're starting to kind of feel good because you're like my, my principal starting to ask me to represent her. In, in, in, in, in smaller ways becoming bigger. That's the third quadrant. Suddenly now you're a representative. It's a lot more than that, right? And then the fourth quadrant is what I call the, the holy grail of chief of staff, which is when, when your principal will come and say, why don't you and I block two days, And organize, um, the, the, the quarterly meetings we're gonna have with, you know, my leadership. And I would like you to prepare that with me because I need your insights or another example would be in my case would be my principal, um, uh, saying, you know, uh, let's you and I sit down to do a powwow to establish what, what's the landscape of user research platforms. That we should contemplate and what kind of budget we're gonna ask. I need your brain to join mine to set that up once you reach that goal. You're in the fourth quadrant and that that's the phenomenal goal. This is really, I think, where it resonates as a chief of staff is now you're a trusted employee. partner, not only in organizing, planning, delivering, but also thinking, strategic thinking. So these are in a nutshell, the four quadrants, and it's a, it's important to remember they built on each other. If you cannot solve your principal email problems, It's very unlikely that you're gonna sit down for two days to think about all the vendors you could be investigating to acquire for a function in this group, right? So the first quadrant will always be there. Very critical. It's a trust builder. And then you move to the four quadrants. So I'm going to stop right there just in case you have any questions. But in essence, that's pretty much what it is.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Thank you so much for that description. That was beautiful. And I think, you know, the description of the first and even the second quadrant might be off putting to some chiefs of staff, but I think it's important to realize. As you mentioned, it's a progression. So it's a starting point. And if you're meeting someone for the first time, it's very unlikely they're going to jump all the way to the fourth. Like, let's do a two day powwow type of thing. Maybe you will on a leap of faith, but I think the way you described it makes so much sense that it would be a natural progression through these stages. And I like what you said at the end where it's a, it's a principle basically saying, I need your brain. So if you get your principle saying that in those words or in different ways where I need your input, I'd like, you know, your perspective here. I need your, uh, brain trust. I think that's when you know, oh my goodness, now we're moving to that fourth quadrant, that full partnership mode. And, um, when, when they're seeking, when they're genuinely seeking your insight on something and, or they're confiding in you and saying, Hey, I messed that up. You know, can we talk about how to kind of course correct ourselves here?

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

That's correct. That's correct. And I think there's a couple of guiding principles regarding this as a chief of staff. It's number one is coming back that big under his mind. Once you have a Prince of first principle, uh, a new principle, um, you got to build trust. It doesn't matter if you've been a chief of staff for 20 years, you can't say, Hey, you know, trust me, These people, they, I mean, normally somebody who has a chief of staff, they're pretty high up in the organization could be the CEO, could be the CFO. So you're always going to tell you, I always tell myself he doesn't have to trust me. Even if I've worked for 25 years, he does not have to trust me. I need to build trust and those quadrants there, they're there to build the trust. So that's number one. The second guiding principle is you're going to need to be patient. Because each human build trust at their own speed and and building trust is not forcing yourself. It's not to say hey We've been in the first quadrant for like, you know, seven months Could we move to the second one? You know, part of doing that kind of a move is destroying trust because it's, it's not patient.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

force it.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

You can't force it. It's a human, it's organic. You got to make the person comfortable. Um, be patient. That's another one, right? Um, and then the, the other guiding principle is the acceptance, non attachment. Again, I'm talking like a Buddhist, I guess, but non attachment that you'll ever make it. To any quadrants. Now, chances are, if you're asked to be a chief of staff, you're immediately in the first quadrant. Will you be in the second one? Maybe. I mean, if you do a good job, chances are you'll be given more. I mean, I've never met an executive that wouldn't rely on a, on a great chief of staff. If you can do more and you're trustable and you're capable, um, They will, they will trust you. You'll move to the quadrants, but it's no guarantee that your principal is ever going to make you a strategic partner. There's no guarantee, you know, and for each one of us, it's a question of deciding, am I comfortable never getting there? Or it's taking too long. That's a personal decision. But if, if you follow those principle organically, things happen, you know?

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yeah. And I think, I mean, I think it's case by case, individual by individual for sure. I think I've known people who are like completely trusting out the gate. And I was like, Whoa, cause I'm not, you have to kind of establish that with me and build that

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Right,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

I've met some people where it's like, you know, open kimono. Like we're just going to jump into this. And I'm like, okay, so there are different. Individual approaches, and I think, you know, you've been mentioning just because I've been chief of staff for 20 years doesn't mean I have, you know, the right answer for this particular principle, which I think through, but a lot of principles, if they're new to the role or their role or new to the chief of staff role, they would. understandably rely on someone who's had that role for so long on kind of different versions and different ideas of what works. there's that foundation, which I think you can learn from and build on, but the relationship with the principle is brand new. And that's where that beginner's mind has to come into play where I might have different, experiences and versions of the chief of staff role in my back pocket, which is great, but this is a brand new principle. So I can't bring assumptions into, into that part of it. So, um, I love what you said there. What did you, how did you apply what you learned from that program to being chief of staff? And I'm not sure, is this, is the McChrystal group where you first, um, got really into the idea of extreme ownership or did that come later? Where did that come

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Well, so yeah, that's interesting. You bring extreme ownership. What, where does extreme ownership, where does that come from? So I think, excuse me. So where do I start answering this? So being a chief of staff, one of the things I've recognized for myself is, um. You got to take ownership of things. Ownership here doesn't mean, you know, stay away from my job. It's like, if you have a principal, if you, let's take, for example, a new principal, we're talking about building a relationship, you get a new principal. He doesn't talk much. He seems a little short. It's new. There's no relationship quite yet. Who, whose fault is it? Well, sometimes it's like, you know, well, it's not my fault. I'm a chief of staff. I'm there to help him and he doesn't help me. Extreme taking ownership is kind of taking the approach. And I know many are going to say, Ooh, I don't agree with that. But, um, I'll come back to that a little bit, why it's so important. But it's like, here's a new principle and he's not very warm. It's not very. He doesn't communicate. It's like, yeah, you know, like I don't know if we're gonna get to the fourth quadrant ever because he doesn't help here. Well, Taking ownership is to say to myself Whose fault is it if it's a cold relationship? The fault is mine. I'll repeat that the fault is mine. Not him. It's me. What can I do to build relationship with that principle? If I start from a position of, well, he's a cold person, you know, it's like, that doesn't work for me. Then you don't take ownership of what you can do. That's why I like the principle of You know, starting with what fault of mine is it that if something is like this, that means taking ownership. Now, extreme ownership is to look at your world with your principal, with their group, with their stakeholders, with their partners, with, and to always ask myself, what can I own in there that I have some level of control that I can fix. It's not about what can I own that I'm going to make mine. It's about observing and it's about. Where can I help? It's a service mindset. It's about taking ownership of my abilities, my responsibilities, my accountabilities. And it's not on paper. Sometimes people I remember at some point, even for myself thinking, uh, well, I don't think that's my job.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yeah.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Extreme ownership is actually not saying that. It's like this is not my job, but I could do something in regards to that responsibility. That would highly benefit my principle. Therefore, I'm going to take ownership of what I can do even if it's not on the job description, given that I'm not sacrificing my priorities, obviously, but extreme ownership is that kind of attitude. It's uh, it's a no blaming attitude. Which, which I'm going to say that very carefully because sometimes things are pretty, pretty bad. Something is, sometimes things are frustrating, but it's like resisting pointing fingers at where the problem is and to say, whose fault is it? Let's start first with me. That's the concept of extreme ownership. It's very uncomfortable actually, but it's very powerful because, uh, what I found with the individual I see doing that. And some example for myself is that when you go down that route, you you're kind of differentiating yourself from a lot of people because

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

absolutely.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

not natural to say it's my fault,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

You stand out. Yeah, you get people's attention for sure.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

right? People are like, what do you mean? It's your fault. Well, it's my fault because I didn't, I didn't do this. I wasn't curious enough. Um, I didn't, I didn't think of solutions to help you. You take ownership and it's tough because with principle that, that, that kind of like, it shakes something within us, which is sometimes it's like when we have a principal or even a manager, you don't have to be a chief of staff is like your manager. Is it, what kind of relationship is it? Is that theoretically you, you're there to serve your leader. Yeah. Or your manager. There's a reason the person is your manager, and it doesn't mean they're perfect. But if you start putting yourself in a position of confrontation, blaming or, and you don't look at what you could do to make this better, then the whole principle of extreme ownership, say, if you don't do that, um, you don't get a relationship. So if we come back to the four quadrants based on trust, and you want to be that strategic partner, no trust, No four quadrants, no ownership, no humility, no trust, no relationships. It's that simple.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

I mean, is a through line and I love what you said because, especially in today's culture, it's, it's usually a blame game or let me, you know, look this direction, not make eye contact. It's not my fault. Please don't call on me. Please don't call me out type of thing. If you're in a group. And you stand up and say, it's all my fault. Whoa, like, hold on, like, what did they just say? It's all my fault. Here's what I did. I didn't do this, this,

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Correct.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

And it just changes the dynamic. And I think putting yourself in that place of discomfort invites others to say, Okay, well, actually, here's what our team did. You know could have done differently or will do differently next time And it creates that open space to have these meaningful conversations and to your point build relationships and build trust. So um extreme ownership can be Uncomfortable, but as you were talking I was thinking This feels so much better because i'm in control

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Correct.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Because if it's like this this manager is cold and it's like, all right, that's just the way it is That's just the way it is. Well, you know, That situation is kind of happening to you or it's like, well, that's kind of, you know, not, not very empowering or as if, okay, well, you know, this part is in my control. I own this part. You know, I can help in this way. I can serve in this way. That's just it feels it feels better. Right? I am in control. Here are the pieces that I do own. Um, so I think that's fantastic. And then I know that you've spoken about this sense of, uh, Yeah. Kind of Navy SEALs, Samurais, these different elite warriors who are known for their physical prowess, but also have to have chops, the mental capacity, and it's a holistic,

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Right.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

it's a holistic experience. So maybe talk a little bit about that, because to me, being Chief of Staff is, Um, what's the word I'm looking for here? It's, kind of all encompassing. You have to bring your whole self to the role to really invest in it and, and serve in that capacity. Well, and I'm just wondering where these components of extreme ownership, um, and kind of holistic, uh, elite performance come into play from your perspective.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Sure. And I'm so glad you, you're curious about that, because not many people have been working for a while. Well, So I left the Canadian forces and I start working. And so I've been in the corporate world for probably about over 30 years. And we think of work mostly as a mental capability, right? It's like, you know, I'm gonna say that carefully because I've been in design workshops. Sometimes you prepare. It could be physical to you're standing up. You gotta chase people around. It's emotional to write so mental, emotional. Some people for some people, it's physical to if you have to, you know, organize a whole room for, you know, a brainstorming session. A workshop could be physical. Get up early in the morning. You don't have time to eat your breakfast. So, so But for the most part, for people meant work is in in in my corporate sphere, work is mental. So chief of staff, one could say, Yeah, it's mostly mental and emotional. Okay, great. So I used to think like that. I was like, you know, work is work. You know, you get in front of your computer, you bring your a game mentally. Now, going back to those those individuals. That that are are very well rounded. Like I always got fascinated is like performance at work. What would be the ultimate image of that is like somebody who shows up early in the morning before people get work done. doesn't come tired, doesn't need 20 cups of coffee. They're alert, they slept well, they're well nourished, they show up, they're awake. Um, they're composed, they're there, they're present. Um, you go in a meeting room, they're, they're not slouching, they're, they're, they're, They're physically, they're engaged. Exactly. And then more than that, too, because, you know, there's work. But if you take those unique individuals, Navy SEALs, Green Berets, um, firefighters, elite firefighters or take your, your, your medical emergency technicians that are there. Some of them show up and you're like, look at them and they look, they have white shirts and they show up to accident. There's no stain on their shirt. They're, they're, they're, they look very holistically well balanced about things. And then some of them, which, which I know personally, some of them, they, they do those kinds of works and then they go back to their families and guess what happened? They don't collapse. They go back, they take their uniforms, they put in the cleaner, they put their favorite t shirt, their Bermudas, they play with their kids, they have energy. It's like, how did they do that? Like, you have a tough job, you're well rounded, well balanced, and, and, and I got really curious about that over a decade ago. I was like, could you be a corporate executive, a chief of staff? And could you aim at that? And the answer is absolutely. In fact, it's not only absolutely is that if you don't pay attention to those things holistically, you will burn out

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Right.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

the same way a Navy SEAL would burn out if they're not. In fact, they probably won't stay on the teams. Or if you're a firefighter after a couple of years, you can say, I gotta leave the profession. Um, now we're not firefighters. I get that. But But nonetheless, we have a body. We have a mind, we have emotions, we have our beliefs, we have our intuitions, we have our biases, um, we have our social network that we need to meet our friends, our colleagues, our principal, our kids, you name it, right? So, the holistic approach is not just, uh, A nice to have thing is if you want to have fun at work. If you want to perform as chief of staff, you want to be patient. If you want to build trust gradually while your principal is not easy to work with and you don't want to carry that at home and be exhausted. There's an approach to this. There are ways. to develop yourself like this. This has been proven a long time. And you were you were mentioning, for example, Samurais or that's not just elite teams in the 21st century. Top performers throughout the history. They had, you know, a discipline of some sort. They have a way to holistically take care of themselves. In service of others, and I can't I can't. I know I'm a little bit over the map here, but for me, it's a very passionate thing, because for me, a chief of staff, I have a friend of mine who was saying, What is the chief of staff? And I kept trying to explain it. You know, I still don't understand. Are you an admin? Are you? And I was like, You know what? If you work for a an executive, you're actually a samurai. Quite frankly, you're alone.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

I love that.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

You're alone, you're supposed to be very skilled, you're gonna show up to a master's kingdom, you're gonna have to get to know the master. He's going to ask you to do all kinds of things, including, you know, cleaning up the kitchen to build an army and go fight somewhere. And, and, and you're alone as a chief of staff, you're alone in that one role. And, and, and, and once, once I started making the comparison, I was like, Samurais, they have things like the Bushido, a set of core values. They have their discipline. They have ways to take care of themselves. They're very humble. And they serve their master. Well, for me, I was like, wow, that sounds pretty much like what I do. So,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yes.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

that's what led me actually to your question about holistic development and extreme ownership because extreme ownership, actually the concepts, like the theory behind it comes Jocko Willink. Which is a former Navy seal. Um, there's another, there's another school of thinking that I've been exposed to about eight years ago called Unbeatable Mind, led by another Navy seal named Mark Devine. Uh, I'm sure some of you have been kind of watching guys like David Goggins. Guy that runs like a hundred miles. And well, okay. I wouldn't, I wouldn't exactly, you know, use that analogy for chief of staff, but nonetheless, he's very holistic. He's very determined. He's very composed and he doesn't burn out. So that's what led me to all those things. And, and, and, and that's been helping me tremendously, not only being a chief of staff, but pretty much everywhere.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

How does, how does this connect to your alignment coaching? So what does alignment mean to you?

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

So alignment. Okay. So you have fantastic questions. So alignment, it was like, okay. Um, extreme ownership. I'm about to speak up in a meeting and I'm about to say, you know, I'll take the fall for this one. This is my fault. Why would I do that? I mean, it's one thing to say, you know, you should do it, but it's hard. And I'm like, because sometimes also I wouldn't do it. I knew, I knew I should. do it, but the words wouldn't come out of my mouth. It was like, I'm sorry for this one. No, it's not going to be my fault today. I'm going to stay quiet. And then, and then the question came, why are you going to do this? And my answer was like, because I'm serving my principal, I'm serving my principal. It's not a job. It is a job. But even more than that is the, let's assume you're my principal. If we meet. I serve you. Now, nobody wants to hear that at work. I remember one time I got one principal and she said, um, what's your job description, Rishar? And I was like, well, I don't know, because we never talked about what you need. So I can't put a job description. I can give you an outline. But you may say, well, I'm not going to need this. I'm not going to need that. And then you're going to, we're going to scrap the job description because you need something else. So her first name was Kathy and I love this woman. And, um, I said, Kathy, look, I mean, I'll make that simple for you. I'm here to serve you. And she was like, Hmm, well, I don't know about that. Like, you know, you're here to work, not here to serve me. I said, I mean it. I'm here to serve you to be successful. And I really meant it. I didn't say that. Like I, I meant it like if we meet and you're not happy with where things are going, I will say to you, it's my fault. There's some things that I could have done better. Maybe I didn't see something here. It's my fault. Why? Because I'm serving you. There's something I'm going to try to do better. You need to know that. So alignment. Alignment for me is the why. The why is like, you know, why am I a chief of staff? Because I'm aligned as a human being to serve people. That's my North Star. That's true everywhere in my life. The North Star is what we call an alignment theory, I call it. Your object of alignment is the thing you're watching that you need to be aligned towards. So if you think of your principal and you say, well, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not serving my principal. He's kind of a, he's not nice to me and he's always not happy with my work. And these are real feelings. But alignment is to remind myself. Nonetheless, Rishar, you're serving your principle. Stay aligned and then find the things that you need to do to stay aligned. Now if I can't serve my principle after trying, then he's not my object of alignment anymore. Serving my principle will always be But if the principle is not receiving service or refuse, then I can't align to service. I can align to serving him. So that led to me to alignment. And then I started realizing over time, yeah, extreme ownership, all those things. You can do all those things, but you need to know why you're doing them. And that's really much so alignment. Why you're a chief of

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yeah.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

would be the first question I would ask anybody is, If somebody would come and say, I'm a Chief of Staff, and man, that's a hard job. And, oof, you know, I mean, I'm going home and I'm, I'm pooped. And I'm just like, I'm drained. My question would be, but do you like it? And if the question is like, well, it depends on the day, then I would say, I would ask, you need to check if being a Chief of Staff is aligned with your, You're bigger you

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yeah,

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

if you're not, it's a job and it's okay. That's it's just a job. But you know, when, when you have a job and you're not aligned with something bigger, that's true for you. You're out of alignment and being out of alignment. I don't know if you, you have a car, but when you get your car aligned, I actually met with the mechanic a year ago and I said, talk to me about alignment. He said, well, if you don't get your car aligned, You're going to get wear and tear on your tire a lot faster. The ride's going to be uncomfortable for people in the car. You will have problems steering your car. These applies to life. These apply to anybody who's misaligned about anything. So,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

I think the car analogy works if I can just jump in, because like, if you're even a little bit, a fraction out of alignment, you're constantly course correcting, trying to go straight. And it's like, it's a wear and tear on the whole system. And I think there could be like a further analogy with like the wheels. So you were talking about the physical and mental and emotional pieces of this, where if those are kind of represented by tires and like, you're going, you know, I'm going Zero to 60 on one tire. Like, I don't know mentally, but physically you're not taking care of your body with sleep and nutrition and play and all those things. And that tire is flat while you're going down the road with like, not all four tires aligned and not all four. So like, you're going to go in a circle or you're going to be all janky. But I like that. I like, I love that analogy of, of alignment in the car.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Yeah, so that's very much also coming back to the four quadrants and the beginner's mind. Why a beginner's mind? Because you said it so well, you don't know that principle. And if you are in service of that principle, that means you need to be aligned with that principle. And if you don't know that principle, You, you need a beginner's mind to learn where that principle is aligning yourself.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yeah.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

you don't observe that, you won't understand your principle, you'll be out of alignment. Trust will not build. And guess what? Maybe you'll do menial task and you're not be, you're not gonna be a strategic partner. All of this, because. No beginner's mind, no understanding, no alignment. You don't know how she's aligned. Each human aligned to something

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yes.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

it's so important, right?

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Alignment coaching. Okay. So Rashad, this has been fantastic. We've, we've covered so much ground here. If someone's listening, it's like, I am on board for the alignment coaching. Where do I sign up? Where's the best place for someone to reach out and connect with you and learn more.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

Go on LinkedIn. Just reach out. My contact info is there. I will say this. I've been looking for alignment coaching around. It's very difficult to find. And and the thing and I'm not this is not a sales pitch But it's just my my own learning about alignment here is that what I found about alignment coaching sometimes that it's it's you're gonna find stuff That's that's aligned with the spiritual ram aligning your Yeah, your mood and which is all good. It's all good stuff. But if you think about alignment coaching in the realm of performance in the realm of careers in the red of, uh, yeah, just reach out to me. And by the time you reach out, may not be, you know, now, but I'm continuously looking for resources about where do you find alignment? How do you find it? Who can provide you help to align yourself? And there's plenty of people. They just don't know they're doing it. You know,

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Hmm.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

could be your grandmother. Maybe she's having a chat with you and you don't realize what she's asking you question to try to help you find alignment about something in the family. So, uh, reach out, reach out. We'll have a conversation. I'm, I'm passionate about this. I came to realize over time that, uh, when we're misaligned life is tough sometimes. Work is tough. Relationship can be tough. A task can be tough. You don't know why you're doing this task. If you're aligned, it's so much easier.

emily-sander_1_10-01-2024_100316:

Yes. Yes. So get your tires inflated. Make sure your, your chassis or whatever aligns the car is aligned. And then also your big why make sure you're driving your car in a direction that makes sense for you. So for sure. That's, this is beautiful. We'll have that contact info in the show notes so people can reach out, but thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

squadcaster-df8e_1_10-01-2024_120316:

You're welcome. Thanks for inviting.