Leveraging Leadership

Force Multiplier Mindset: Maximizing Impact as an EA or Chief of Staff

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 191

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Hallie Warner talks about her journey from Executive Assistant to Chief of Staff, the differences between those roles, and how they work together in both small and large companies. She shares real situations, like launching a year-long leadership program with an EA handling logistics, and discusses common setups and struggles between these positions. Hallie also gives practical advice for EAs and Chiefs of Staff and recommends top books like "Fierce Conversations" and "Multipliers."

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Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

01:21 Hallie's Background and Experience
02:21 Force Multiplier: Concept and Company
04:02 Chief of Staff vs. Executive Assistant
05:42 Organizational Structures and Roles
07:48 Factors Influencing EA and Chief of Staff Roles
15:23 Collaboration Between EA and Chief of Staff
22:37 Challenges and Solutions in EA and Chief of Staff Dynamics
32:08 Misconceptions About EAs and Chiefs of Staff
32:58 Advice for Aspiring Chiefs of Staff
35:13 Conclusion and Book Recommendations

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Hallie Warner, how are you?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Hello. Good. How are you?

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

I'm doing very good. I'm always impressed by your books in the background. For those of you who can't see, these are bookshelves that are color coded and have like gradient levels of color per shelf. So that's what we have going on,

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yes. Yes. Books are very much my, my first love.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

clearly. And like, Did you come up with this color scheme? Do you have a designer do this? I've never seen this.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Oh, no, I just did the, you know, Roy G Biv.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Oh my gosh. That's impressive. Okay. I feel calmer just looking at your background anyway. Hallie, thank you so much for joining. Um, Hallie is the owner and coach of force multiplier. Which is a term we hear a lot, um, but she's here to talk to us about all things EA and how chiefs of staff at EAs work together and all of that, all of that good stuff. Hallie, for those of the listeners who don't know you, can you just do a brief introduction of your background and experience and where you're coming, coming to things from?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. So for the past, it's been about 15 years or so I've been really in the executive support, entrepreneurship space, um, mostly worked with one entrepreneur for 13 years. Um, but prior to that was, um, an executive assistant and then I was an executive assistant. With, um, working with him as well and then moved, um, about three years doing that and then moved into a Chief of Staff role. And then since that I have continued on that, you know, Chief of Staff, in the EA Chief of Staff world, but specifically more on the coaching and consulting side. I do feel like, you know, even though I'm not formally a Chief of Staff anymore, am a force multiplier at heart and like that is what I do when I work with my clients. My one on one clients, that's what I do when I work as a consultant or a fractional chief of staff, like it's just who I am.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

I think force multiplier is like a mindset. It's like an attitude more so than like a title or function.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

I agree.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

yes, yes. So just, just for people's context, what does force multiplier do? You mentioned kind of the coaching and consulting. Um, and I believe you have some different courses and training pieces coming out. But what, what is it that that organization does?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. So the basis of it was the book that I wrote with my former executive called the founder and the force multiplier. And so the company really from the book. So we, I did a lot of coaching cohorts, so small group coaching. Um, when I was still at, as chief of staff, I did that through the founder and the force multiplier company. Now I still do a bit of one on one coaching, but I am working on developing my, my, my on demand, self paced academy called the Force Multiplier Academy that will combine love of force multipliers, my love of books, my love of learning, um, it's really a leadership In my opinion, it's a leadership course for those who are in a force multiplier role. E. A. S. Newer aspiring chiefs of staff, executive business partners, personal assistance, anyone who's that right hand partner to a leader. And yes, I skew a bit more towards entrepreneurs and small business owners simply because that's my background. But I hope that the information is, you know, just as applicable to individuals and large organizations as well.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Very cool. All right. So I definitely want to get into some different setups where chiefs of staff can work together with E. A. S. At small companies, medium, large companies. There's lots of different factors that go into that. but just to kind of set the table here. Um, you and I have talked about this many times before, but I think we're agreeing that you can confirm this, that I see an agreement An executive assistant role being very different than a chief of staff role. And certainly one can transition from an EA to a chief of staff, such as yourself, and do that very successfully. But it's also not like a given, like, okay, because this person's a good EA, they will become a good chief of staff. So just getting, getting that out there and then getting your take on that.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. I think where it becomes it's where it's more tricky between the EA and chief of staff is I think it's smaller organizations there, there is so much overlap and on a small team when you have. you know, you've got your principal and you maybe have someone in finance, someone in marketing, someone in operations, and then you have an EA and then you try to add a chief of staff. It's like the, or you maybe don't even need a chief of staff. The EA is already kind of operating in that role much of the time because there is no one else to operate in that role. Or if you had just hired a chief of staff and not an EA in that scenario in a small business, well then that chief of staff is operating as an executive assistant because Well, someone's going to have to, so I think that's a, it gets a little tricky in smaller companies or if you're working like one on one with a principal or again in a small organization. But yes, all like all things equal and the organization is large enough or complex, complex enough to necessitate both positions. They're very different. and we can go into those details if you want.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah. I just wanted to make sure like people to, to set the table and backdrop for people like that's, Where Hallie and I are coming from. And then within that, maybe we can talk about, you know, a midsize company, even a large company where there will be EAs and there will be chiefs of staff and like plural in both cases. And like, how, how do they partner together and how do they work together? Um, you know, maybe a place to start is what kind of like org structures have you seen? I've seen like a group of EAs roll up to a chief of staff. I've seen a lot of dotted line situations where a chief of staff will be supporting Say a CEO, and then they'll have an EA supporting the CEO. And then all of the, uh, C suite executive team will have an EA as well. And it's dotted line to the chief of staff. Um, there's loads of others, but like, what have you seen in this space?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah, I was going to say all of that and, and so much more. Um, yeah, sometimes. Sometimes the EAs are all roll up to maybe a senior EA or, or an administrative manager. And in that case, the chief of staff might be a little bit more removed from the administrative functions because, know, there might be an, uh, chief administrative officer or, or simply an EA manager. So I've seen that. To your point, I've seen EAs who directly report to a chief of staff, who also are reporting to their principal or working very closely with their principal, but sometimes also reporting to the chief of staff. Sometimes the chief of staff and the EA have very little, well they really should have a lot of interaction, but there's no, there's no, they're siloed, sometimes they're siloed.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

depends on, honestly, there's so many like, and ifs and it depends,

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yes,

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

you're right. Like if there's a lot of chiefs of staff in the organization, maybe they are all reporting to one senior chief of staff or VP of, uh, I was like VP about business operations or something like that. Um, EAs are running a bit separately and they're one on one with their executive supporting them that way. So there's lots of different scenarios.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

totally. Totally. Maybe we could talk about some of the factors that go into that, which are like. Infinite, but like we just cover, cover the most common, I mean, like company size, we kind of touched on, I think the nature of like the industry or organization might have something to do with it, personality of like principle and what, what works best for them. What are the other things that you've seen?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah, I was going to say, um, a little bit to do with the size too. Like I say, like our business was like a small business, but yet. We ha my executive had multiple small businesses. So there was some complexities there. in, I became the chief of staff and we leveraged out so much of the EA responsibilities because there were so many other things going on in the organization that I could then pay attention to. Um, the personality of the executive, definitely. think, um, I think I was actually interested to hear your thoughts on this too. Like what? Not all companies. a chief of staff, right? I mean, or do you feel like all companies do need a chief of staff?

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Um, I mean, not every single one, but I could probably make a strong argument that most, most companies or most executives can find a benefit in having a chief of staff, um, but I think. You know, that, that's, it's, if a person isn't ready to have a chief of staff and doesn't want a chief of staff, there are certain, there are certain people who have that approach who wouldn't do well with the chief of staff. Now I have had some principals who are like, I don't want a chief of staff, but okay, I'll bring one on. And then they're like, Oh my gosh, how did I live without a chief of staff all this time?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

You know, I'm interested. I always am curious, like in those examples, do they also have an executive assistant?

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Sometimes. I mean, a lot of people who have had an EA, which is. More common will often confuse a chief of staff with like a high level EA. I heard I've heard the term like EA plus Oh, yeah, chief of staff like EA plus like a senior EA. I'm like, no, no, it's not but I've seen also the dynamic between At EA and chief of staff, sometimes they're like, it's a potico. Like we are like lockstep, we're doing this thing together. And sometimes there's quite a lot of tension in between an EA and chief of staff, because depending on like who was there first in terms of tenure, in terms of like territory and people's like, you're taking that, that's mine type of thing, I've seen that dynamic, uh, go in all sorts of directions, kind of every direction, uh, every, every range on the spectrum type of thing.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. Same, same. And, and I think what we were talking, um, before about like that EA should never report to a chief of staff is a common. Thought, but I actually don't necessarily agree with that because as we've just been talking about, it really, there's, it depends on tenure. It depends on the, the principal's desire to lead an additional person. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a great relationship, the EA and the principal, but sometimes the workflow might through the chief of staff.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah, for sure. What do you think, um, like what makes you say the EA shouldn't roll to the chief of staff? Is it just because, well, let me ask that question. I'll let you answer.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

uh, that's what I hear a lot. I actually don't agree. Yeah. I don't actually agree with that. I think, and I think the common thought is, uh, well, I mean, I can listen, I can see it both ways and, and I think that it, it doesn't work if there isn't. other mechanisms in order to have make sure that the E. A. Is building a strong relationship in partnership with whoever they're supporting.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

if the chief of staff ends up becoming a bottleneck, if things are slowing down, if the E. A. Is not getting the context that they need, there's lots of reasons why they shouldn't report directly to the chief of staff. However, if they're getting all of those things whilst eliminating of the pressure from the principal to have Those conversations around, around context or around, here's all the information that you need. I think it's a benefit for the EA to, to a chief of staff if it is saving the principal time.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah, for sure. And I think, I mean, I would be interested in your experience. First of all, when you were EA, was there a chief of staff or just, there was no chief of staff? Okay. So you were like EA function, no chief of staff, and then you were promoted to chief of staff. And then did you have an EA?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

We, my executive had an EA, but they did report to me.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Oh, interesting. Okay. And how did you.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

well, I'm just going to say in those situations, I think it's interesting because if you are like an E or any role that you're kind of moving into a new position and you need to backfill your previous role, the thing in that scenario, my principal didn't need additional support. He was fantastic. Right. Cause I was fulfilling all of his needs. He didn't know there was anything wrong. I was doing chief of staff work. I was doing executive assistant work. Like it was fine. But there, there comes a point where I became the ceiling of our growth. And so I said, well, we need, we need something. And so do I move into a COO role and we hire you in EA? Do we just, you know, hire COOs for every single entity? Like, what are we going to do here? After doing a lot of research around the chief of staff role and the I, I very clearly knew that my career path was chief of staff and not chief operating officer. so I made that pitch. I proposed that. And yes, while in theory, the EA was supporting him, it was really a leverage piece for me by making that higher because his life didn't really change drastically one way or the other. We were just able to grow much and more effectively by that higher.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

That's very cool. Yeah. And I think back to your earlier point, if you start with a small company and I've seen a lot of founders hire a chief of staff as one of their first five hires, which is amazing. And as you described, like at that stage, everyone's doing everything. Like you're just, you're, it's all hands on deck. Everyone's wearing multiple hats and very often a chief of staff or someone like that. We'll be fulfilling EA responsibilities and maybe COO responsibilities or what have you. But what you just said is, made me think of, as that company progresses and evolves, and those two roles become distinct, there, there may very well come a point where they split off into, okay, we now need to make a distinct chief of staff at EA and COO role with three different people. Cause it's just to the scale.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yes. And that's exactly, maybe, you know, I wasn't, maybe not at a huge level, but on a smaller level, that's exactly what happened. We hired operation directors of operations. We hired an EA. Um, so that I could continue to run alongside my highly entrepreneurial, um, um, executive who was starting new companies, you know, starting nonprofit, involved in other coaching programs and very public facing, um, and our, we've started hiring directors of operations to run the operations and the day to day functions of the various businesses. Cause that was not actually my personality or his. We wanted to go build, grow, lead. we needed somebody to actually kind of operate and run the business.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah, for sure. What have you seen work well in terms of like the, the, Roles and duties of an EA and the roles and duties of a chief of staff. And let's just say like, they're both reporting into the CEO in this capacity. Like they're not reporting into each other, but they're all, but they're collaborating and having to touch base on a lot of things.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah, I mean, I worked so closely with our EA. I mean, we, we almost, we did everything together. We were just doing different parts of it, um, essentially. And that's the same philosophy I take with a principal as a force multiplier is we have one high impact job. We just are doing two different parts of it. And if you bring in an EA or you bring in a chief of staff, okay, you have one very high impact role. You are just each doing your pieces of it based off of your, And, and so in this, in this case with the EA versus chief of staff, I mean, I could have very well continued to be the EA if that was my strength and desire. And we could have hired a chief of staff, but that's just not, honestly, I mean, that's not where I am that good is in the EA role. Um, So in those examples, the EA of course would be handling, I like to say things that are a little bit more immediate. It doesn't mean that they're not planning longterm. However, have to be able to be highly adaptable, flexible, and responsive to whatever the needs of the day that week are. Without that, things fall through the crack. So yes, they're handling, you know, logistics and scheduling and planning and all of the various things that go into doing that, um, events, meeting prep, strat meetings, like all of the things. Um, and the chief of staff, in my experience, is focused more on, is just focused more along on longterm items. Like, And filling, and I would say filling the gaps, and that's what I did a lot in my role was whether it's starting new companies, whether it was bridging the gap before we were large enough to make a full time hire, um, long term planning, creating new programs, launching new and services, like, I might not have been the doer in all of those, but I was the one helping create the plan, orchestrate everything, keep everyone organized on track, lead it, um, and then turn it over to the person who was going to actually run it. again, me, the, as a chief of staff in our EA, we would work hand in hand on all of those things. So I might be creating this big, you know, new coaching program that we were about to launch. My executive was the talent in that program. I was orchestrating the thing. And then our EA would come in and make sure all the logistics were handled. I mean, we all worked very, very closely together.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah. I love what you said about, we're, we're doing one important job. We're just doing different pieces of it. And yes, I mean, in every instance I've seen, like an EA is doing the immediate quick, like calendar or send this email out or draft this thing. Um, I've seen a lot of EAs. Be also kind of like an office manager. And so for like that location, if you're talking logistics, it's like, can you make sure like the, you know, AV and the screen and stuff work in the conference room? Cause we're going to have a group call with, you know, this other location type of thing. Um, And then the chief of staff is doing the more like long term big picture strategic pieces. But of course, there's like logistic and administrative support pieces that have to be done along the way, and someone has to do it or it or just falls falls apart. So, um, I definitely resonate with what you said there. Is there anything else? Like an example where you work with your EA And you were like, okay, here's my big project. And here's the touch points I would have with EA or here. Like I would shoot them an email or shoot them a Slack or go down the hall and, and poke my head in and say, Hey, can we do this, this, and this?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

this. Yeah. The, the one we, we did a five year leadership coaching. I think we ran it for five years. Um, as very big leadership coaching program, it was a year long. We had usually about 25 to 30 people in it. They paid a lot of money. we met four times a year. off, you know, not in our office, obviously off site, there were speakers, there were activities, dinners, catering, like hotel, everything, you know, av, all the things that needed to go into transportation, handling all of that. and so, I mean, that was like, that was my baby was putting that entire leadership coaching program. And so, yeah, I usually created the overall agenda you know, thought through who are we going to be having first speakers? And I did this in hand in hand with our principal, right? Like he gave me the big vision. And then I was like, okay, if you want to create this leadership coaching program, here's what I think we need to do. Right? I go and I create the whole program, the plan, but I'm working together. Hand in hand with R. E. A. Who I would meet with. We had, you know, regular meetings. She would check back in if there was any decisions that I needed to sign off on our mate or or make. Um, but really, I would then give her the logistical vision of what things needed to happen and we would have kind of a project plan and then she would get to work. scheduling the venue, handling, going back and forth with the caters, making sure AV was, um, taken care of booking the speakers, handling all of the clients requests because you know, they needed special water on site. Like she handled all of that. Um, and then we would meet very regularly throughout the year, um, to make sure things were on track for the project for the, for the program. Um, and then, you know, of course, before any large event, you're meeting a lot those couple of weeks leading up to it, all those final decisions that need to be made. But yeah, I mean, I was really kind of leading the charge on the vision and the programming, and, I mean, I couldn't have done it without her, right? Like, she did of the legwork and then really made sure things on site were, were handled with the venue, with the food, with the catering, so that I could Entertainer, I say entertain, but really, so I could be engaged in the conversations and be facilitating and talk about leadership and okay. Let's talk about, so how's your business doing? Like, and having those conversations while we were there, like onsite.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah. And that example made me think of, we were, we had like an annual event that we ran and it was like a whole big, it was our kind of capstone thing for the year and I would watch our team. And some people were just so good at like the hospitality stuff. I'm like, the flower should be here. And like, this goes with this. I'm like, that does go with that. And like, I just don't see that stuff. I'm like, there's no way I could do this. If I tried, it would be horrible. And so if you have people playing to their strength to like drive on that stuff and let me, like, let me make this environment, The way we want it to be. If it's like calm and soothing, or if it's like fun and exciting and innovative, like loud, I mean, people can design that stuff and a good EA can help orchestrate that part of it, which is huge. So I, I love what you said there. And then you're able to like, go make connections with people and kind of not worry about like, Hey, the catering is doing this or the appetizers aren't out yet type of thing. Um, you're able to make those strategic connections.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I could not have done it without our EA.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah. Where have you seen, um, Like EAs and Chiefs of Staff not be set up well or not quite under, like, run into trouble. Like, where have you seen that take place?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. I, and I, I'm curious also from your perspective, I feel like more often than not, it is a chief of staff coming in after an EA is already, so there's two scenarios. One is that there's, there's already an EA and a chief of staff is hired. Or then, or, I mean, I guess these are the two scenarios, or the EA often moves into a chief of staff role and then they have to rehire the EA. I feel like that one is, that one has unique challenges because the relationship between the chief of, and this is in my example, we already had a, I don't know, three, four year relationship, a five year relationship at the point where we brought in an EA. So in those cases, I think it is. I mean, I made sure that my entire role was making sure our EA was set up for success and was being coached. The challenge there was making sure that she or he had enough time to create a connection with the executive and that I didn't always become the bottleneck and that I didn't always get in the way. So we had, I had to make sure that was a little bit of a delicate dance then In the example, when a new chief of staff is hired and the EA has been there for a long time, I think the chief of staff again needs to come in and come from a lot of curiosity, there to develop the relationship first. again, make sure that the EA and the executive are still maintaining their connection and their relationship. Um, and being very willing to learn from the EA because they have a ton that they can share. And really in both scenarios, what I'm, what I'm basically saying here is making sure you are being highly collaborative while being also knowing very clearly where the, the roles are and

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

That's it. It sounds so simple. I was like, It's easier said than done, but that's it. If you can do that, then you unlock that for that partnership.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yes. And where does their roles and responsibility and where do yours begin? Vice versa. And then in that, how are we each supporting the principal? Because I think that's where it can sometimes get a little. Not tricky, but like, you know, there can be egos involved and there's,

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Totally.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

you know, office politics and I have the relationship or you don't know what's happening or whatever, but that you just have to commit to rebuilding the relationship. We're staying in our lanes. It's one big job. We're just doing different parts of it.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah. And it's interesting because like in the first scenario you mentioned, where if someone wasn't EA and they moved into the chief of staff role, I mean, it sounds like you were pretty self aware. It was like, I need to not be the bottleneck here. And I need to let this EA do their thing. Where I've seen people trip up is they like try to hold on to the EA stuff. because they're like, no, no, no, this is how you do it. Like you do it right like this. I can do that. I know how. And they just, they can't do it all. And they stifle the new EA who's trying to put their mark on the role. And then I've seen this, the second scenario quite a lot where And EA has been there for a long, long time. And maybe they are taking care of some of the personal side of the principal stuff and the business side. So they're all ingrained with the principal. Chief of staff comes on board and EA's like, what are you doing here? Like, hold on. Like, this is, this is my principal. Um, and they get pretty territorial. So, uh, and I'm wondering like where you see the principal in all this. I mean, my view is EA and Chief of Staff are trying to make the principal's life easier, and at the same time, principal has to, has to share, like, their vision of how they think this is going to work as well, and say, and be part of that conversation. So it's kind of a three way conversation.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah, I absolutely needs to be a three way conversation as you're saying that all I was thinking, um, it was, it was very challenging to have to retrain, not retrain, but train my principal to not always come to me for everything.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Oh yes.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

And that took some time, and, you know, of course it always feels good that, like, I'm the go to. However, that meant I to hold on to so many of those responsibilities, and I became the bottleneck. Um, and, so, it was a bit of a process making sure that he was in in involved in the process of this. Because, again, he does not care who gets the work done. That's never on the principal's radar. Generally, not on the principal's mind and certainly not in my case, like could care less who did the work as long as the result was getting hit.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Just get it done.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

So, could tell whoever he wanted to and as long as it was getting done, it didn't matter. So, making sure that we did have channels of communication in place and we really were discussing. And often times we would have meetings, all the three of us together. Not all the time, I would say at least once a month we were just having a quick little like, all on the same page? Has anything changed? Let's make sure we're looking ahead for the next quarter. Um, so that, we're both hearing it directly from him about vision or any sort of things that may have shifted in the priority. Not just my interpretation of it, even though mine was pretty good after, you know, working together with him for so long. Um, but yes, I think making sure that the principal is involved in, in those, uh, conversations and being like, Okay, here are the lanes. EA and chief of staff, we have decided here's who's doing what you know, just helping to facilitate the principal and helping hold them, hold them

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Friendly reminder. Yes,

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

To, to those frameworks that you've developed.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

totally. Totally. And I think too, like I always see there's when, when someone goes from EA to chief of staff, they kind of have to rebrand themselves internally.'cause everyone thinks of themselves, thinks of them as an ea. And rightfully so if they've done that for like five, seven, eight years, whatever, and all of a sudden they're chief of staff. And so it does take reminding like the principal. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Okay. Yep. This goes here. And like your other colleagues might route stuff to you because they were used to doing that. It's like, Oh no, sorry. That goes to this person now. So it's just, I mean, it's, it's, it's valid in some ways and understandable.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. It's no one's, yeah. It's no one's. Fault. Again, everyone's just so busy. I'm a big believer in no matter what role you're in. And I teach this to EAs all the time. Like you have to communicate your role other people let them know, like, you come to me for this, this is how I deliver results for you. Like, it's not their job, other people's job to know your job.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Yeah, and I think like in the second scenario where an EA has been there and a chief of staff comes in, like where I've seen this be successful if the, if the principal like outlines to, has the conversation with those two people. So they have that three way conversation, but then messages like an email or a leadership meeting or whatever to the rest of the team, like, Hey, here's what these two roles are. And here's why I brought in the chief of staff. I think that helps people a lot. Yes. What other advice do you have for EAs because this is your bread and butter stuff about like How to be an exceptional EA?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Oh, I'm like, where shall I begin? There are a couple of, There are a couple of like places to, I mean there's so many ways that you can be a great EA, but for me it always, It's, it comes down to, it comes down to leadership. And so I say that, but I really mean starting with yourself, leadership and leading yourself first. And to me that means in your education, reading books, listening to podcasts, the business, understanding how your executive thinks, making sure that your work is aligned with theirs, understanding the goals and priorities of the business, the goals and priorities of your executive. So for me, it's like leadership and partnership and they go hand in hand, in my opinion. And so there's lots of to do's to do in order to develop obviously leadership. But by doing that, I think you are positioning yourself as a strategic partner to the chief of staff, to the principal, to the leadership team. And I think that's a, that's really what, my opinion, what EAs want, they want partnership And they are, they are amazing partners to have on the team. And so the way I think to, again, to develop that is starting with yourself and continuing to invest into learning and leadership development.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

I love that your answer included leadership and partnership because I don't think a lot of people would think of those two words after they hear EA. Like when you're like, okay, think EA, what do you think of? Like, I don't know if a lot of people would say leadership and partnership, but that's so true. And there's different facets and layers in there. Um, and of course I love the continuous learning bit. I mean, invest in yourself and you know, what your motivation and your education and, um, all of those different types of things, but thank you for teeing it up like that. Um, Any other misconceptions about EAs that you've seen thrown around? And you're like, I would like to dispel those.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Oh man, the biggest one that we hear all the time, and I'm sure you hear it too, is EAs are tactical, Chiefs of Staff are strategic. think that is, it's just not, it's only 50 percent true, right? Because EAs are tactical and strategic, and Chiefs of Staff are strategic. Tactical and strategic. They both are, I know it's an easy way to like delineate the roles, but I think it just doesn't, it doesn't give EAs or chiefs of staff enough credit for all of the work that goes into, um, really operating in those positions at a really high level. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

If you were talking to an EA who wants to one day become a chief of staff, maybe they're like, they got an entry level job out of college and they're learning the company and the team and Business and all this, but one day they have their eye on chief of staff. What would, what advice would you give them in terms of like how to, how to show up and what types of opportunities to look for and all those different types of things?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah, I think, uh, one thing that immediately comes to mind is around leadership. I know I said that a lot, but it is interesting, I find that there, I mean, there's a difference, I think, in general in an organization between being more of an individual contributor and being in a people manager, like a leader,

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Totally.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

like anyone can be a leader in, their own right and in their role. And you can lead projects and you can lead through influence. I'm not saying that. I mean, like in a more formal. position and I know chiefs of staff don't necessarily always have direct reports, but they need to absolutely be okay. Um, and want to know and want to learn how to succeed through other people rather than on their own individual efforts. And I think that that's again, regardless of the role, I feel like there's some distinction there about your personal preference about how you want to work. Do you want to work solely based off of your own contributions and your own efforts or Are you, which I don't say isn't always an EA, but very often is more of an EA. Like you kill it in your role. You are providing stuff at an incredibly high level, but you're not necessarily a hundred percent dependent on other people getting their work done. You might be helping to facilitate it, but it's not quite to the level, in my opinion, as a chief of staff where pretty much your entire role is based on making sure that you're helping to facilitate and influence other people or lead other people either directly or indirectly. Um, so I think you have to know yourself and be honest with yourself about whether or not you, type of you want in general. And if you like leading other people and having to wait around for them to get back to you and hold other people accountable, it's not for everybody.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

No, it's not. I think that's a good question. Like what type of leader do you want to be? There's lots of different types of leadership and the world and companies need all sorts of them. So what, what leader do you want to be? And you know, don't force yourself into a role that you think you should do. And you're not suited for when really your strength is over here and you can contribute in such an amazing way over here. Um, so as we wind down here, I know we've covered a lot of ground, um, and somehow almost like just the tip of the iceberg in this topic, but is there anything else you want to get out there in terms of like, people need to know this about EAs or about this about chiefs of staff or force multipliers? What's your main message you want to get, get out to people?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. And I think we started off by talking about it a little bit. Maybe this was even off camera, but that to me, it's a, being a fourth multipliers Um, and it is not about it. Title. And yes, there are absolutely, I believe in having incredibly clear titles and clear job descriptions. And yet in the very entrepreneurial and environment that I have operated in for a long time, like titles mean different things to different people at different companies.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Oh yeah.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

me, a force multiplier spans many different titles. And for me, it is whoever is the right hand partner to. a leader to the principal. And sometimes that comes in the form of an E. A. Sometimes that's the form of a chief of staff. Sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's a founder's associate or a personal assistant assistant. and regardless, for me, it all goes back to the idea of being a force multiplier, adopting that mindset, um, which is to take the vision and priorities of an executive and ensure that they're communicated. Organized, delegated, and executed across the rest of the organization. And there's lots of things that go into doing that, um, and ways of approaching it, but what a force multiplier is. You're maximizing and enhancing the vision and ensuring that it gets done.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Beautiful. Last question for you. You said you're a bibliophile and you can see that from your background. What are some of your favorite books just for yourself and or like recommended books for other people?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott is when I read regularly, um, multipliers and impact players by Liz Wiseman. Um, I love high performance habits. Essentialism, uh, 4, 000 weeks is great by Oliver Berkman. I love that book. Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke is fantastic. Gosh, you know, it really depends. Like, those are some of like my top that I would recommend almost to anybody in like a force multiplier role. And then there's always a book for anyone's problem. In my opinion, if you have a problem or a challenge, or you're trying to learn something, there is a book for you. So I always say, let me know what you're trying to learn. Let me know what problem you're trying to solve. And I'll, I'll have a book recommendation for you.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

If people want to reach out to you for that book recommendation or anything else they've heard with you or Force Multiplier, what is the best way to get in touch with you?

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Yeah. My email, Hallie at Hallie Warner. com is perfect.

emily-sander_1_02-19-2025_120440:

Okay. And we'll have that in the show notes for anyone listening, but Hallie, thank you so much for joining and really appreciate this conversation and everything that you're doing with Force Multiplier.

halie_1_02-19-2025_150440:

Thank you so much.