Leveraging Leadership

Department of Defense Chief of Staff on Missions, Mental Health and Mentorship

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 201

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"Any views expressed are the opinions of Mr. Williams and do not reflect the position or represent the U.S. Department of Defense. Mr. Williams' participation does not constitute any implied or actual endorsement of any nonfederal entity by the U.S. Government."

Johnathan "JDUBB" Williams, Chief of Staff for the Joint Functional Component Command for Integrated Missile Defense, shares how he quickly brought transparency and better communication to his team by holding open meetings, sending his 30-day assessments to the whole command, and encouraging direct feedback. He talks about the importance of mental health in high-stress jobs, his own experience at Walter Reed, and how mentorship helps leaders at every level. Williams also discusses how staying calm in crisis situations sets the tone for the whole team.

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Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

1:41 Johnathan's Military Journey
04:58 Role and Responsibilities at Space Command
07:45 Leadership and Management Strategies
20:05 Mentorship and Professional Development
26:04 Encouraging Mentorship in Command
27:09 Implementing Mentorship Programs
30:56 Advocating for Mental Health
33:18 Personal Mental Health Journey
40:03 Integrating Mental Health in Leadership

Hey, this is a quick note from Emily in the future. The guest you're about to hear from is fantastic due to a security protocol. He had to take the interview from his car outside the military base he was on. So the audio and video just for the first eight minutes is a little bit more choppy than normal, but after that, it evens out. But the content, the experience, the background, the story is fantastic. So I definitely wanted to share that with you. So without further ado, here is that conversation.

emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100537:

Welcome back to leveraging leadership. Today's guest is Jonathan J Dub Williams, and he has a long, fancy title. So let me read this to you. He is the chief of staff for the joint functional component command for integrated missile defense, a subordinate command to the U S space Command. and before we dive in a quick disclaimer, Mr. Williams is here today in his personal capacity, the views and opinions he shares are his own and do not represent the department of defense or its policies. With that, J Dub, welcome to the show. It's very nice to see you again.

Speaker 2:

It's nice to see you, Emily. Thanks for having me.

emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100537:

just to start out with, could you share a bit about your background and your journey to the chief of staff role at the department of defense?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So I back in 1998, um, as a naval officer, my designator was intelligence and bent over. 20 years, um, holding positions, uh, of greater senior. And responsibility, uh, throughout those years from working writer squadron as the intel officer to being an interrogator, uh, with, uh, the SEAL Team 1, um, in Ramadi, Iraq. And then, uh, I came out here a space professional. Uh, there was a very small cadre of, uh, Navy officers that were space educated. And when Space Command was getting ready to stand up. Decided well, I can retire or take this next step and I took the next step and I'm glad I did because now Um, uh, the chief of or J. T. F. space command is a graphic combatant command. Uh, it was around in the eighties and then at 9 11, uh, they started the U. S. Northern Command. Uh, several years go by and we realized yeah. Our importance, uh, with space assets and fight that may come in all deals with. With a lot of that, that is in space from satellites to communications. Uh, you know, the simple thing from paying for gas at a pump or taking out cash at an A. T. M. at all. It's all based in space. So space command is in charge. If you, if you look up in the sky and you go 100 kilometers up, that's where their area it. So that's technical space begins. Uh, anything below that is U. S. strategic command. It's also separated graphically by other component commands, like the European command obviously has EUCOM, um, has Europe. Central command has, um, the Middle East, the Pacific. Of course, the Pacific, but the uniqueness of space command is that we are trans regional. We go up and we intersect every. Patent commands, uh, area ability, and those are all chaired by four star generals or admirals. Uh, the joint functional component command for integrated missile defense, a J ffic. Um, the J FFIC is responsible, uh, integrated missile defense where we take joint capabilities development. We advocate for the war fighter, uh, the operator that operates technology and we. Make sure that those resources are shared cross combatant commands. So if you picture a missile coming out of, say, Iran, and it's flying into, um, 100 nautical miles above the earth, and it's, so it's in space, transiting, say, to the United States, it's going to go over CENTCOM, it's going to go over European command, it's going to go into U. S. And we need to make sure that all those pieces are connected and talking to each other so that? we can provide a defensive capability.

emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100537:

Gotcha. Yes, that would be good. So thank you for what you do. And thank you for what all of your colleagues do. Uh, thank you for that explanation. And then in this case, who is your principal? So it's a general, not a CEO in this case, but can you talk a little bit about your chain of command there?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So my immediate chain of command goes from, uh, Lieutenant General Ganey. He's our Army general. Uh, he wears several hats. He's the Army's strategic commander for Army's capabilities. Um, he's also the U. S. Space and Missile Defense Center officer and he's also our commanding general. So he wears several hats. Um, he's a three star. We have a deputy commander who 06, a full bird colonel, and then there's the staff we all report to general being a four star general who's in charge of U. S. Space Command. So we're doing so his from the president And the general Whiting at Space Command is charged with. Regional missile defense, which is what we do, and we do that on behalf of General Whiting, because we have that capability. We have the expertise in house

emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100537:

and is general Whiting, I see. And is General Whiting the one who would present the defense proposal on to the president on behalf of what his subordinates have put together and what he's approved.

Speaker 2:

He has, in some cases, um, Lieutenant on, uh, for his, for the hat that he wears as Jiffy commander. So he testified in Congress, uh, just in April of 2024, um, wearing.

emily-sander_1_01-02-2025_100537:

I see. Okay. So you're supporting some very influential people to, to say the least. Um, okay. Thank you for that context. That will be helpful to many listeners, um, who are not as familiar with the military apparatus as you are. So when we first connected, you were going into this role and we were talking about your first 30, 60, 90 days, and it sounded like there wasn't. an official program or protocol for chiefs of staff. It was, I have this joint command and I have to coordinate all of these different departments and divisions and directories, um, go and you had very good instincts and were able to put together a lot of pieces that brought transparency and visibility and. open communication. to the groups you are working with, but just

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

You know, how did you get into the role of chief of staff and what did your first 30, 60, 90 days look like?

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

So it was a competitive process. I applied, um, through USA jobs and I had an, a real extensive interview, uh, with four senior officers. Um, and it was about an hour, about an hour interview. Um, and about a month after the interview, maybe six weeks, I got the, Um, the job offer. So when I first got on board, um, typically in the military, when you show up, uh, the some of the advice, whether it's good or bad is to, Hey, don't make any significant changes Right. away. Right. Um, get the lay of the land, kind of see what's going on. Um, well, I, I needed to speed that up, um, because our mission is, our mission is, is very important. Um, I was coming in at the end of the fiscal year. Um, so I wanted to make sure that I was in lockstep with Lieutenant General Ganey, um, and what he told Congress that he was going to do. Uh, and during my interview, I promised that that's exactly what I was, I was intending to do. So when I got on board, um, I met with every, you can look at them as C suite members. So I have, uh, eight officers. Um, they range from They're joint service, military and civilian. They're all 06s or GS 14s. So I'm the senior civilian for the command. Um, and I sat down with every, every one, uh, for about 45 minutes. I, I asked them to bring me their issues. Give me the, um, the brief of what, what it is that their directorate, uh, is in charge of, big issues they're having, the projects that are working on, uh, and how I can help. And I asked them to just be candid with me, um, because I'm a very transparent, um, type of leader. So I was able to speed up my 30 day assessment and make all those changes within my first few weeks, um, relatively easy and smoothly. And I got a huge, it did pay, um, great dividends going, going forward. I'm working on my 90 day assessment now. Um, and we've made significant progress. And the command is, is much better. Um, I'm not saying that it's because of me, it's because I've allowed those senior officers. To be autonomous, to have their authority over their directorate, uh, and have responsibility. So I don't want to micromanage them. They're very senior professionals, um, who've had 30 years like? myself in the industry. So I just, I need them to, to act that way. Um, and it was a good relief that. I did on their behalf because they were, they were very energized when I told them that asked them to do that. And then I displayed it, um, to them by giving them more things in their bailiwick, if you will, to do, um, I cut out a lot of meetings that were pointless, time consuming. Uh, some meetings covered the same thing. So I created one staff meeting, uh, it's every Monday and it's the chief of staff sync meeting with all of my directors. Uh, and we go over the issues for the week from personnel to, uh, computer issues to future projects, to. Um, integration with foreign partners or other combatant commands, it runs the gamut and we, we sit in there for an hour. It's very process driven, very streamlined and efficient. Um, and it's, and it's proved fruitful for the command.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Yes. And along with the one on ones you did and the rethinking of meetings, streamlining those, I want to, I want to call out and highlight a few other things you did, which you first of all took the session the general had with Congress and said, here's, here's the mandate. Here's the overall, you know, what we're supposed to be driving towards.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

ma'am.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Repurposing what was said there into here's what we're driving after. Here's the objective. And then, um, you also took that 30 day assessment that you provided to the general and you push that to the entire command so they could see what you had said. And I think that was the first time that had ever happened.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

It was the first time. Uh, so when I got on board, I was asking random, uh, employees, Hey, what, what do you think, Our mission is, what do you think your contribution to our mission is? And people had a huge sort of, well, they were very disjointed in what they thought they did, who they did it for and what, what sort of, um, interaction they had and what, what they, what their participation was, you know, what their piece of the pie was. Um, So I read General Ganey's testimony to Congress. I itemized it, lined it out, like, as you saw, um, and I told the command that, okay, here's me, this is my leadership style, and these are the things you're going to see, uh, me get after right away. Uh, so I sent that to the entire command. Uh, the general really liked it. And the command appreciated it because they, they were like, everyone was on the same sheet of music going forward. They're like, okay, we know why he's here. We know why he's making changes. Uh, because the general promised Congress that he would. So I just put those into action. Um, and it worked out great. Um, we've made huge strides in, uh, in almost my 90 day mark. Uh, that, I mean, a hundred percent in some areas. 60, 75 percent and many others. It's been phenomenal, but that trans transparency from senior leadership, uh, is invaluable. If you, if you, I'm that type of leader that says, if I'm going to do something and I put it in writing, I do it. And, and everyone was very appreciative of that. And it's to this day, it's still, it's still running full steam.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

And then what's your approach to collecting feedback ongoing, right? Cause it's a dynamic evolving kind of living process where you want to make sure you're transparent in terms of. Letting the teams know what the commander's intent is in this case, a real commander, a real general, what the commander's intent is. So they understand, and then also feeding up relevant, helpful information to leadership that the people, you know, on the front lines know, and they just have a different level of access to or different perspective on how do you gather that feedback and convey that.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

Uh, so I I'm very mobile. As a, as a leader, um, I like to get out and talk to the people that are, I'm working with, um, in their workspace. Uh, I try to keep it very informal so that they're able to talk to me. A lot of people will say, sir, yes, sir. Um, but the people that have like a long history in the military or. knew me, um, when I moved here in Colorado Springs on active duty in 2018, then, uh, a lot of people stay here. Cause it's beautiful. Um, they'll call me JW. And I asked people to call me that because I. That, that feedback is important to me on where they think they are, what, what they think is going on, um, if it's working or not, or if there's a better way to do it. Uh, so I'm constantly in that, in that environment, putting my, my employees in that environment. And then I write a report every Monday. I don't know if I showed that to you, but it's usually the notes that I take during my chief of staff meeting. And I'll tell the general exactly what is being said. In the command. So there's, there's no guesswork that everybody knows from the general down to my it tech. Um, everybody knows what everybody's thinking and doing and working on. And you can just take that document and walk across, uh, the building to another section and integrate yourself with whatever it is that they're doing. Cause all, a lot of the pieces overlap, um, and they're able to see that. now.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

And with that summary snapshot from the Monday chief of staff meetings, we're What else, just in general, you being chief of staff to General Gainey, what does he need from you to do his job effectively? I

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

So. He needs me to make sure that the staff, uh, is, is cohesive. They're operating as one unit. Um, they're communicating openly with each other that they're integrated. Um, and that's where the transparency, my 60, 30, 60, 90 day assessment, my weekly, um, chief of staff sync notes that I give to the command and to the commander. Everybody sees what everyone else is doing. And for the first time, this command has been around for 20 years. Uh, and for the first time, a lot of these employees that have been there for that long said, it's never been this way. Um, and that's not due to me. It's just, I learned throughout my career that if you know what the boss wants, you don't have to guess, and you're usually right the first time. Um, and in our mission. You don't have the luxury of a lot of time, um, cause a lot of things are wanted right away from Congress or from the secretary of defense or the president. Um, and you constantly have to be on your toes for that. Um, and that takes an entire team to do. And that's what general gaming needs for me ultimately is to make sure that the team, I got the proper lineup. Everybody's fielded and has practiced and warmed up and is ready to play the game every single day. And that's what I try to do.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

love that analogy that they're warmed up and ready to play at any, at any moment, because if the secretary of defense or the president calls, you probably need to reprioritize what you're doing and get that done, I would imagine. And, and then in terms of. Rapid response in general. I mean, you're talking about missile defense, so I can only imagine there's times where it's like, okay, we have a very time sensitive situation here. How do you, you know, talk about, um, collaborating across groups and communicating very quickly as a group worldwide, how do you handle these rapid, uh, rapid fire situations and, and these high stakes calls in the moment?

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

Um, so I did five combat deployments in the Navy and, um, the most pivotal deployment I had was when I was an interrogator, um, for SEAL Team One out of San Diego, and we went to Ramadi, Iraq. Um, I'm not a SEAL. I'm an intel officer that supported them. Great group of leaders. Um, they have ways of mentally pulling out of you. What, what it is that you are capable of doing. Um, and they taught me how to be calm in, in the most dire of circumstances. And it's not something you, you read or, or, um, study. You're in that environment and you just have to learn to do it, um, mentally and physically. And, um, so for the last, that was in 2008, 2009, um, and I've been operating that way ever since. And I like to be the person that's calm in the room, that's got a nice calming tone of voice and I just bring everyone together. Um, typically let's say for, um. The missiles that were being launched into Israel from Iran all over the news. Of course, we're, we're involved in, in watching that play out. Um, we're advising the president, the secretary of defense, we're advising general Whiting, um, because we have the subject matter expertise in what those systems are, what the systems we need to use to counteract that. Um, like everybody hears about the Patriot missile. So it's things like that, that we make sure work. And whatever new improvements are implemented, um, and we just, we track that every single day. We have a 24 hour, um, indication and warning watch floor, uh, that is well integrated with a lot of the other geographic combatant commands. Um, and, and we watch those things happen and we prepare ourselves to react to that. Um, but if you go in there, guns a blazing and your head's on fire and. You know, you're way over excited. It just causes more chaos. It, it, um, puts people in stove pipes and I can't afford that. So I have to go in there very calm, very rational. Um, and people feed off of that. I I've noticed, um, they're, they kind of mimic what, I'm showing or displaying. Physically. Um, and they're able to sit and think and talk and, and brainstorm and come up with new ideas or, um, you know, what, what have you for as long as I remain calm and I set that tone, I set it for the entire command and I'm very, very self aware of that.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

And I think it's, I want to highlight something you said. You can't afford. To create heightened panic in your team. You can't afford that. I mean, you literally can't afford that. I think that's good to hear for other people as well. If you're in a leadership position and there's an escalation or there's a crisis going on, the way you show up can absolutely change the tone of how your team responds. People take their cues from their leader. And so I think, you know, I was, I tried to be very conscious about that. And even if I was like, Ooh, this is this is not a good situation. I would consciously. Make myself speak slower and just move slower and just make sure I collected the information. And before early in my career, I would panic and I would show that I was panicking and that had negative effect. And then when I learned to do what you're talking about, it had a much more positive effect and outcomes for the team. But obviously, um, you know, what you do is, is, is a different scale, but I think that's a, a key thing for leaders to hear and to highlight.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

very key. Yep. I started out the same way when I first joined the Navy and had, as an Intel officer, you get up and you brief a lot of people at a lot of senior pay grades. Um, and I was nervous. I knew the material, but constantly I was thinking, well, what are they thinking about me and is my uniform proper, right? It's, you know, those self sort of diagnosing scenarios that you put yourself through, um, and I, but I don't do that anymore. I just, um, I guess I, as I matured and got more experience and sought out a lot of mentorship, um, from senior members of the military that, that I admired the most, um, and. It's, it's easy to find a mentor in the military. There's always somebody standing there ready to to help you out and make you better, um, because they're going to be leaving soon. We rotate a lot. Every three years you're rotating a new staff, a new, a new command, a new commanding officer. So, um, it's good practice to, to find those different mentors, um, different designators in the Navy. They don't have to be an intel guy. They can be, you know, a fighter pilot. She can be a ship captain. Um, they can be a peer or even a subordinate. We have a lot of smart people that enlist in the military And they're, they have PhDs. They have, um, IT degrees, their CISSPs, their, um, PNP certified. We have a lot of smart talent in our, in our armed forces, both military and civilian. And it's, It would be a waste to not tap into that. So I do that quite a bit

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

And given our previous conversation, mentorship is, is a high priority for you. And you talked a little bit about how that plays in the military in your command. How do you foster that? Are there specific programs? Do you just encourage people like go find a mentor or go be a mentor? How does that come about in your, in your command?

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

Well, specifically for this command, um, I held, I had like a town hall. Um, I had everyone in the command? sit in an auditorium. I got up, introduced myself. This was within my first 30 days. And I told them, I said, look, mentorship's a big deal for me. Um, we go on a lot of travel. We have a lot of, um, commands that we go see. We're, we're in Indo Pacom, uh, we're in the Pacific, we're in Europe, we're in the Atlantic, um, visiting all those commands where, and we're putting names to faces so that we can build that relationship with those other commands. So it's, it makes it harder for them to say no when we ask for something. Right. Because now they have a face, they kind of know you and it's like, well, okay. I met the guy or I met the gal and they're good people. They they're doing their mission. What the general asked them to do. It's let's help them out type of deal. So I like to encourage that. And I told my, my C suite leaders, we call them J codes. They're, um, directors. I said, if you guys are going TDY, I'm not going to approve it. If you go temporary travel around the, around the globe, I won't approve it. Unless you're taking someone to mentor, uh, whether it's an officer or, uh, a civilian employee, um, and everybody really liked that idea. Um, and it sort of forced that, that mentorship in that way. And then it, um, opened up the doors for, Hey, sir, you know, we went on this trip to Europe. Um, when we get back, can you help me with, uh, I'm thinking about doing this in my career. I'm thinking about changing this in my career, or I'm thinking about changing my career altogether and getting out of the military and doing something completely different. Um, it's opened those doors and I keep my door open and I've got a lot of people that I mentor and I have two, uh, staff members that I call senior mentor, uh, in the open. And everybody kind of like looks at me, they're like, sorry, but you're the chief of staff. But, you know, I'm like, but these two guys are Oh, sixes. They're colonels, full birds. They've got 30 years of experience. I would be an idiot if I didn't ask them. They know so much and they've got a different perspective on everything. One is in the army. The other one's in the air force. I was in the Navy. So I get that joint. I get their points of view from their services and it helps you better. It makes the general's job easier because now we're connecting all of that tissue, if you will, um, across the globe so that we can do our job and help the do their job better.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

love that approach. I wish more people saw it that way. Whereas like you have all these resources, all these amazing, talented, skilled people around you. Why wouldn't you at least just have a conversation? I mean, the worst they can say is no, I'm too busy this quarter or whatever, but so many people would love to help. They love to help and give back. Um, so I

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

Give them that opportunity. I like to give people the opportunity to, um, I like to give them access and opportunity. Um, And I encourage them to get up there and fail. If you're going to give a brief and it's your first time briefing, it's okay. You're going to, you're going to fail, but you're going to get better. Um, I'm not, I'm not going to, you know, penalize you or, or reprimand you for not, um, having that type of, um, that attitude. If, if, you know, you're only going to get better if you practice. I encourage that. And, um, so I, I call it opportunity and, and access, um, give them the opportunity and they'll, they'll take it. You give them access to leadership, to brief. It only helps them make some better. Um, that's how the, the SEAL team did it for me. They gave me that opportunity to, to fail the opportunity to improve and get better. And, and here I am today. So. Um, I, I, that's something I want to give back to the people that are coming up behind me because this won't be a full time, you know, a lifetime job for me and my, I still have plans of going to the senior executive services is my next step. So I need to teach someone.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Well thank Yes. Well thank you so much for, for what you do in, in the mentorship space.'cause it is, it is so important. And it just sounds like from just what you've said here, you've helped so many people. So thank you for that. And I, again, people listening, please do this yourselves, encourage your teams, uh,'cause it has great benefits and dividends for the people around you. So you're a supporter of mentorship, you're also a passionate advocate. Uh, for mental health and you speak publicly about this. So I was wondering, can you share your experiences in Walter Reed and what the main messages that you're wanting to convey, uh, when you speak to people about this?

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

absolutely. Um, so for sake of time and, and, and details, um, I joined the Navy in 1998. Uh, in 1999 and 2000, um, we had several world issues. We had the Albanian separatist crisis that was occurring in now North Macedonia and Albania. Um, it was almost a civil war there between, um, Muslims and, and Greek, like Orthodox, um, religious factions. Um, the city of Skopje is divided by a river. I went from that deployment, I went to Iraq right after that, uh, I deployed to Jordan, so I did back to back to back to back, yeah, um, combat deployments, and you see things, you experience things that are That are not what an average person from anywhere in America is used to seeing or engaging in. And depending on where you're at and who you're with, who you're working for, what you do, you're, you're constantly at, you're running at 110 percent of your emotional, physical, and mental ability. Uh, you don't sleep a lot, you don't eat well, you don't get enough exercise, so your, your body's constantly in this state. gauntlet, if you will, um, like a Spartan race. And you do that for six months, every day for six months, you don't get a day off. You know, it's not like we stopped fighting on the weekend. Um, I've done this deployment on a two aircraft carriers, the John F. Kennedy and the Abraham Lincoln. Um, I've done it with ground forces and I've done it individually. Um, and it's, you, you don't know how to turn it off when you get back and it creates a lot of stress. Um, both mentally and physically, and so I noticed my particular case, I noticed that when I was on deployments, I was fine mentally and physically, uh, when I had that downtime and I wasn't on a deployment, that's when I start missing the team that I was with. Um, I'm, I'm edgy. I'm agitated, uh, short tempered. I was never violent. That was very like, you and I wouldn't be having this? conversation because I would, I would think of it as like, why are you, what do you want to know about me? What are you trying to get? Right. There's some sort of other angle, um, that somebody is trying to do to me. And it was ruining, it was ruining my family. It was ruining my personal relationships with neighbors and friends. Um, and I was on the Navy staff. And the four star of the Navy that at that time was Admiral Richardson, and he created a task force called Task Force Resilient. And I got to go to that, um, as, as one of the subject matter experts to figure out how can we do this better than the Navy? How can we get people back from combat, back from, um, stressful deployments, um, and to have them integrate better and be more efficient and more lethal when they come back. And, um, So I was on that task force. My job was to interview, um, agencies around the globe, law enforcement agencies. And the one thing I found out was that there is a lot of, uh, psychological and mental health professional staffers, um, on a lot of these agencies like NYPD, um, LAPD, Miami Dade, um, Washington Metro. There's a staff. So when an officer is involved in a shooting, they get their gun, they take their badge, they go on this. small hiatus, if you will, and they, they talk to mental health professionals because that's tragic. Um, the trauma that you, you see and you hear at Harbor really eats you up. And, and that's what happened to me. Um, while I was on that task force, I also was a patient at Walter Reed, um, Army Medical Center in Bethesda. And I was in a group of 25 guys, Half the guys knew who I was from deployments, my time in the Navy. Um, so we were personal friends, but I didn't tell anybody I was in it. And the Admiral that was running the show at the time, Admiral Donagan, great man. Um, he said, don't tell anybody. Just keep going. And at the end, we're going to outbrief everyone's project and you go last. So I was the last guy to brief my project. And I heard all the stereotypes, right? Like, Oh, I've never had this person fly a jet. This person could never go in combat. This person can't go on a ship. Um, so I, I had, I was going through treatment and I was also hearing a lot of the stereotypes and the stigmas. And when I finally said, Hey, I'm actually in the program now at Walter Reed, and I guarantee that the tools they've taught me make me more lethal, more self aware, um, and, and more competent. I, I, I'm not held captive to those traumatic issues anymore. I know how to deal with them. Um, and I started. openly talking about it because that's what I needed. I just needed somebody that was a senior officer in the military that said it's, this is okay and you're not going to lose your career over it. Uh, you're not going to lose your security clearance. Uh, if you, you know, your top secret clearance, you're not going to lose your time flying a jet. Um, and, and people We're stunned. So I flew out to Columbus Air Force Base in Mississippi in September. Um, and that's where all the new Air Force pilots go to train on their specific platforms. I briefed over 500 brand new pilots. Uh, brought in the mental health doctor from that. from that hospital. And I told them my story. Uh, I got to go into detail with them cause I had all day. Um, and it was remarkable. I have people that call me constantly texting me saying, Hey, J Dub, I went to mental health. It's been great. Hey, J Dub. Um, I want to go to mental health, but I'm scared of this or that. They call me, my phone rings 24 hours a day and I will pick it up. Uh, and I'll, I'll talk to people. I just had a meeting two weeks ago with a guy here, um, and I walked, had lunch with him and then walked to mental health with him just to get him in the door and that was, right? And, and I get these texts I can show you later. Um, it's like, you changed my life. Like, thank you so much. That, and that's, That's what happened to me. Uh, the Navy provided that to me, so I want to give that back to everyone else that comes my way and says, you know, hey, I want to listen to what you have to say, Jada. Um, I was scheduled to go to Florida State University, my alma mater, uh, this month, uh, but unfortunately, For the presidential transition again, we're going to be very busy giving information to the incoming administration. So this month is going to be horrible for me. But next month, I'm trying to get out there for one of their career. Their career discussion days, um, about government service, uh, federal employment, things like that. Um, where I can also, where I also share my story of mental health. I, but I

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Wow. Well, yeah. Thank you so much for what you do and also for sharing that story. I think it's really important for people to hear, um, Something like you who had like identified, addressed and overcame, you know, mental health challenges, which were more than understandable given what you had gone through and, and that you are successful and that you are at the top of your field and that you work with SEAL teams and you support generals who support the President of the United States. Like, like, it doesn't mean you cannot be successful if you have something you're dealing with in your mental health. So I think it's, I thank you very much for sharing that. I think it's really important for people to hear.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

And, and that goes into the corporate environment as well, right? Um, there's a lot of stressful situations when it comes to, you know, product development. Or quarterly earnings statements and things like that. Like that's a lot of pressure on a CEO. That's a lot of pressure on a chief of staff for a situation like that. Um, It's, it's no different, right? Those are, those are just stressful situations that your, that your brain goes into and your body reacts to that and it gets addicted to that, um, that chemical that releases in your brain when you're, when you're in a stressful situation. Um, but if you remain calm and you get help and you figure out how to recognize it when it happens, uh, how to deal with it. You know, there's, there's no stopping you And you help other people do it. And, you know, it just, it just keeps going And going and going,

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

And when I talk about this with people, I always try to equate it to, um, we talk about our physical fitness a lot, especially in the U S we're kind of obsessed with like physical fitness and what's your training program. And you're going for runs and workouts and eating and diets and all these things for our physical health, which is fantastic and great. Uh, but people just kind of. either ignore the mental health or they put that in like an entirely different kind of tabooed stigma category, which I just find interesting. It's like, it's the same, you're taking care of your health and that includes your mental health and what's happening emotionally. And so I, like, I want people to say, you know, I was talking to my therapist or I was talking to my counselor. I went to a mental health group, whatever, just the same as like, I went to the gym, you know, I'm trying this new kind of eating program type of thing. Because to me, it's like, you're, you're just taking care of yourself.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

And that's, that's part of who I am as a chief of staff here. Um, that's who I am as a leader across the board. Um, and it's, it's something that I, like, As you said, I will tell people that I told my command as the new chief of staff, if I give you time to go to the gym because the military gives you an hour, three days a week to go to the gym on company time. So if I give you time to do that, I give you time to go to church on Sundays, whatever your religion may be. Um, I give you time off to go to your daughter's piano recital or dance recital. Why would I not give you time to go to mental health? I mean, it's. Right. It's a workout for your brain. I love that field. I love that community. Um, it's, it's given me my life back. Um, help me figure out my, my purpose in life. My drive is, is, is much more, uh, intense for, for life and, and experiences and, and taking on hard challenges and, and trying to succeed in those. Um, which is why I bought your book. Um, if If I had a, it's, I, I call it my chief of staff Bible and, and it's, it's got red and green. I color coded the tabs on all these little things that were in their book about, you know, how, how to communicate with someone who might be, uh, cause I work with a guy that applied for my job, but didn't get it. So there was some attention there, right? So I, I just went up to him and said, Hey, you know, I'm, I heard you interviewed for the job. You know, um, That's a big step for you, you know, and it, and it says a lot more about you as a, as a, as a professional that you're staying here, even though, you know, you didn't get that promotion, um, and you're still churning and I'm looking for you to be more involved. Um, more integrated, take up a bigger role in the company because that was your goal. And if that's still your goal in the future, I want to help you get there, whether I'm in that seat or not. So, and that helped a lot. Our relationship changed on a dime and we, my staff texts me all the time. I have two cell phones, which I think is kind of absurd, but, um, they're good. They go off the hook and my leadership team has 24 hour access to me at any time. Um, But your book was amazing and I'm glad because it gave me this opportunity to finally meet you and get on your podcast and, um, and share the, the success stories that I got from your book.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Well, I'm, I'm humbled and honored that I could offer a small piece of helpful information to you. So, um, uh, absolutely, absolutely privileged that you, that you read the book. Um, if someone is listening and they were hearing the part about mental health and they, um, wanna reach out to some, someone to engage with someone on that for themselves or someone they know, do you have any good resources for where people should go for that?

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

there's a, there's a 1 800 number, uh, nationally, but what I deal with, cause I'm in a lot of military communities, um, there's, uh, the Military OneSource is a resource. Uh, the Navy, the Navy Aid Society, there is, uh, the Soldiers and Sailors Relief, um, Society. They're all phone numbers in, in the military community that you can, um, have access to, uh, chaplains, doctors, commanders. We have it. It's, it's almost a DOD regulation. You have stuff like that on a, on a bulletin board for the entire command to see. And, and I'll share because I'm very proud of my kids, my, I have a 20 year old now and a 14 year old now, and they both go to mental health every Tuesday.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Oh

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

and they're, they're some of the most resilient young ladies I've ever seen. And, you know, their mom and I want them to be that way. Um, and why not go to mental health? Cause they lived. Seeing dad struggle, they re, you know, they, they saw me going to mental health and getting better and having a complete 180 change of my life. And, um, they just called, uh, it's the family care center here in Colorado Springs. They are amazing. Um, they just call them, got an appointment and they go. Sometimes it's on teleconference, sometimes it's in person, but they spend an hour and it's inexpensive. And it's 35. You know, a session to go. So I, if somebody is in this situation, they're not in military community. I would just say, go to a mental health clinic and, and pay for the session. It it'll, it'll change your life. Absolutely.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

Yeah. Make it part of your regular routine. I'm so that's so that's so I'm, it's funny, but it's, I'm very happy that your daughters are, are doing that. And I also think it's important to highlight some of the things you said. It made you better. So I think people at the bottom when they're just, you know, kind of crushed in on themselves and everything's dark and this is horrible, I can't get out of this. It can get better. And some of the things you've said is. It made me more lethal. It made me sharper. It made me better. It made me stronger. and so it's not a sign of weakness. It's you're actually making yourself, uh, a more kind of optimized human. So I think that's, uh, important to say, say as well, but JW, you've been so generous with your time and the information you shared, just given everything we've spoken about, is there anything else you want people to know about? What you and your command are doing, anything about mentorship or anything else on mental health that you want to make sure to get across.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

Uh, so for the first one, um, JIFIC IMD and U. S. Space Command, uh, they're in great hands. They're there with some, some of the most brilliant four star generals I've ever met. Um, So the nation is very secure there. Um, it's a great place to work. They're always hiring. Um, if you're interested in government service in that capacity, I would encourage everybody to go to USAJOBS and look for U. S. Space Command. Um, there are a ton of great opportunities to get involved. Uh, when it comes to mental health, You know, think of it as going to the gym, like I said before, um, it's going to the gym through your brain. And it could be, you don't have to go there because you have an issue. You can go there just to make sure that whatever you're feeling, whatever you're experiencing, however you're processing your environment, whether it's normal or not, in most cases, it's a normal reaction that your body's going through. And um, and, and, you know, that takes a lot of pressure off, um, off of you as an individual, because now you're up. saying to yourself, man, I'm kind of crazy or I messed up. It's like, no, this is, this is normal re behavior. This is a normal reaction to stimulus in my environment. And now I know how to prepare for it and how to deal with it. Just like we prepare for, you know, riding our bike and getting in a, in an accident, you know, you're going to wear a helmet because you know, you're going to get hit in the head. It's the same thing. Um, and then for mentorship, That is both up and down the chain of command. Uh, don't, I would encourage people not to wait. I didn't wait for the general to tell me what to do. I went in and did it and told him what I did and, and ask for guidance since, you know, it's, sir, this is what I did. You saw the email. Um, it's, this is my intent. This is what I'm doing. This is what I've done. If you have any feedback or want me to change anything, let me know. And it's, I, every time I email it, it's, uh, Keep going, uh, move out and draw fire as an army officer says, right? So, and I do that and I encourage people to do that, um, whatever capacity they're in, um, mentor up the chain. And I like to think that I mentored general Ganey at times. Um, I wrote an op ed for him just, uh, new year's Eve, uh, that he really I think is going to help him when he testifies in front of Congress, uh, in the coming year and, uh, just mentor down as well and don't forget, you know, your left and right that appear could be extremely knowledgeable, have that experience. You just don't know until you ask. Um, don't be shy or bashful. Just be, you want to make yourself better and you want to make your command better, your company better, your staff better, um, going forward. It just makes you more productive. It makes you more, uh, efficient. It makes you more effective. It makes you more lethal. It makes you more, um, profitable.

emily-sander_2_01-02-2025_101942:

That's a great note to end on. And J Dub, thank you once again for being on and sharing all that you have. And thank you for everything that you do.

squadcaster-77je_2_01-02-2025_111940:

yes, ma'am, I really appreciate the time and the opportunity. And I look forward to chatting with you again.