Leveraging Leadership

What Chiefs of Staff Can Learn from the Supporting Concerts and World Tours

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 219

Share episode

Tarra Stubbins shares her journey from dropping out of high school to travel with rock bands as a personal assistant—including wild hotel room requests from Mick Jagger—to founding the Take It Easy Group, where she now provides Chief of Staff and executive support to high-profile clients. She talks about handling unusual demands like putting a toothbrush in a hotel dishwasher, building a strong network, and helping CEOs, athletes, and high-net-worth individuals manage their complex lives. Tarra also discusses her new podcast "Fuck the Fluff," focused on real, no-nonsense advice for women in business.


Links Mentioned:


Free Resources:

 

Get in Touch With Emily:

 

Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

00:35 Tarra's Early Dreams and Career Beginnings
02:12 First Steps into the Rock and Roll World
03:39 Life on Tour with Rock Stars
04:54 Crazy Requests and Problem Solving
06:44 Mental and Physical Preparation for Performers
12:06 Transitioning from Roadie to Entrepreneur
14:58 Building a Personal Concierge Business
16:20 Managing High Net Worth Individuals
18:48 The Importance of Networking
20:27 Take It Easy Group's Services and Clients
28:07 New Podcast and Final Thoughts

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Tara Stubbins, welcome to Leveraging Leadership. Thank you so much for being on the show.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have this conversation.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

am too. I am too. So I often refer to chiefs of staff as like the rock star of the team. You kind of bring a whole new definition to that. You were, you are the founder of Take It Easy group now, but how you got there is kind of interesting. You were chief of staff to actual rock stars. So can you please give us a little snapshot of that backstory?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, so, uh, taking you way back to when I was really little, I always had this dream that I wanted to be a rock star, but for some reason, um, I like, you know, always thought or I wanted to be a star, but for some reason in my head, I always thought that being a star was being a rock star. I had very, and I still have very little musical talent. I, you know, love music and appreciate music, but when I play a musical instrument, it sounds like a dying animal. So I was like, well, there goes that dream. Um, but something inside me told me not to throw away my entire dream. And that's like a little nugget that I always love to tell people is that from all the really successful people that I have been able to work with and surround myself with, if you listen to their back stories, they always kind of knew where they were going or had a little idea, like a little nugget in them, um, of where they're gonna go. So. Please don't throw away your dream if you're really, you know, trying to do something and you think this is never going to be for me. That's like a little tiny piece of advice that I love to share with everybody. Um, so yeah, I had this like little, uh, of my dream that I held on to, and I al I would forget about it until those days when you had to make a big decision like, am I going this way or am I going this way in life? And, uh, one of those days was, uh, when I was, do I continue with school or do I jump on a rock and roll tour bus?

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Hey.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

And so I decided to drop outta high school and jump on a rock and roll tour bus. Now I am not, uh, telling everybody to do that, to follow their dreams. My mother almost killed me. It was in the days before cell phones. It wasn't probably a good decision, but I did it anyway. Um. And I became, I fell in love with, you know, just like the grunt work of being an assistant. It wasn't even, there was no flashiness to what I was doing. There was, there was nothing. It was a very unknown band going across Canada. I. And so, you know, but it was helping people and helping them live out their dreams that I just gravitated to and loved every minute of it. And I was like, this is what I wanna do. This is how I wanna be the rock star. I wanna help rock stars. And so I did that to her. I went back to school and after school I jumped on another rock and roll tour bus and have been chasing rock stars around ever since.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

So you, so when you say chasing rock stars, like you've traveled like 300 days out of the year, like you, you're a roadie. Like what types of things are you able to share about that experience?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, so

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

I.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

of the big names that I got to support were the Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger, I was his. personal assistant out on the road for two world tours.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Wow.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

that was like 250 to 300 days a year. Not at home on, you know, planes, buses, in hotel rooms, um, just. Chasing him wherever he was going. Uh, and I had to basically make sure that he was set up both mentally and also physically in a space and, you know, a mindset where he could. Go out and play the best darn show every single night for all of us. Um, and there was crazy experiences. Uh, a lot of them I can't share. Obviously we all know as chiefs of staff, we have, um, you know, confidentiality agreements, but one that I do share quite a bit, um. And there's also a little kinda learning, uh, nugget in there as well. But, uh, he would always want his hotel rooms painted a very specific shade of beige everywhere we went. Actually, very similar to the beige on the wall behind me. And no, I didn't copy him. I actually kind of have PDSD about this color. So, um, but yeah, I'm just randomly in this room, but he, so we would be everywhere. We were in one time in. Mumbai in the Taj Mahal Hotel and the Taj Mahal Hotel is. Very old. It's thousands of years old, and in the presidential suite where he was staying, there's gold leaf wallpaper on the walls. And what we had to do was we had to take that ancient gold leaf wallpaper down and

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Oh

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

the

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

no.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

beige. And then he stayed there for three days and then we restored the wallpaper and put it back up and continued on our way to the next city. Um, but yeah, crazy things like that was what I had to do. I learned, um, very early on. You never ask rock stars why they do crazy stuff. You just don't wanna know. I got very good at saying yes, I will figure it out, even though I was panicking on the inside. It was, um, days again before like cell phones really, or you know, I couldn't really Google or Uber my way out of problems. It was. trying to figure out how am I going to get this request or solve this problem. Um, so yeah. And, and they never wanna hear. No. So it was, yep. Okay. I'll get it. Sure. 12 hours, no problem. And then, yeah, panicking on the inside, so it was great problem solving skills as well.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay. There's a lot to unpack there, but I'm just curious, um, what does it take to get Mick Jagger or just like a rock star in general, like mentally and physically ready to go on stage and perform like you have to be on. Thousands and thousands and millions of people have paid good money to come and see you. So you, you can't be halfway there. So what, can you talk about a few things you've, you've learned there?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, so with people like Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones, they've been famous for like 375 years. So they, they, they just know, it's just kind of what they do. But if you think about younger people

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

I.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

people who are just getting to like the top of their game. There's a lot that goes into their, like, as I was saying, mental readiness as well as physical readiness. So we always hear about like the crazy requests, like the, you know, beige walls, or there's a famous one where Van Hale and asked people to pick Brown m and ms out of the, um, of their, they never wanted to see Brown m and msms in their tour bus, but that was because they wanted to make sure people actually read the list and were doing everything on the list. So it was like a trick, but. of them having to stress out, like have my actual requests that make me feel comfortable and ready to get on stage and perform, been, you know, succeeded and been checked off the list. They don't have to worry about that anymore. They just see the brown m and mss and they're like, okay, it, it has or it hasn't. That was their kind of. Crazy version of just being mentally prepared. Uh, again, I never asked Mick Jagger why he wanted his rooms painted beige, but. I can kind of take, I, I think some of it was OCD, some of it was just a request that kind of carried on. Um, you know, from the early beginnings. Maybe it started as a joke, I'm not quite sure, but it was something that he could feel comfortable in. We were, you know, in a different room almost every night in different cities, and that's a lot of. Just, you know, strange pla and unknown places. And for anyone who has traveled it is, it takes a couple of seconds when you get into your hotel room, even if you're traveling for work and you're like, okay, I'm gonna work now. But I just need to kind of settle in and, you know, kind of feel up the space a little bit. And that was something that he could just, you know, walk into the room and it felt the same everywhere he went, no matter where it was. And then he could, you know, prepare and do whatever he wanted. He loved running on treadmills, um, wherever he was. So he could do that, but he just didn't have to think about it. And that. Another real key aspect that I always like to talk about is like, if you're really trying to build success in your business or your role, um, getting rid of those habits that you always have to think about and making them just something that you don't even have to think about and you just do, and those habits that actually drive succe success, that's where successful people actually become successful and famous and the rock stars because they don't think about those habits. It's just something that they do.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Yeah, and I think, I mean, a Chief of Staff's job is to create that space for their principals, and it is like, you know, we're talk about decision fatigue, where it's like, take the unnecessary decisions off of their plate. They have to make a few. High quality decisions each day, like you gotta tee'em up for that. And I think these, these kind of. Extra habits, just like have that built in for them. So I love that. And then just, I was on the physical side of preparing. I remember watching this little like featurette on Lady Gaga for her Super Bowl performance, which was amazing by the way. Like that's one of the best performances in recent memory in my opinion. But she. Was talking to her team and she had to have like the, I think it was like the gimbal thing that she was like flying across the, across the sky on like set up in a certain way. And she was like, I just want it this way. I know it sounds weird, but I'm like, you're flying across like open air and you could die. So if you want that prepped a certain way, you can. And then I remember she was in full costume. She got in her full costume and she would go on one of those like, I dunno what they're called, but those machines where you move your arms and legs up like a pole and you're like, you're climbing. And she would sing. Her song while she was doing that, and I was like, what in the world? So there's like a me, like a physical aspect of being prepared too.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Taylor Swift is known for that. She would run on her treadmill and do her entire Aris performance four

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

That's crazy.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

it is while running. But you can think about the physical stamina that these artists. Need to not only emotionally hold the crowd, but also physically run around the stage and sing. And you know, some of them play guitar or an instrument, like it's both. It's physical and mental work that they are doing up

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Yeah, totally. And Lady Gaga dances too. So anyway, I just remember that I was like, yeah, there is so much prep that goes into that. And I think, you know, certainly I. Different in like business world, but you still have to think about the health and the physical fitness of your principal because they might not be going on tour, but they might be traveling 250 days outta the year. They might be giving large presentations to the media, to the public, to their staff. So I think all of that comes into play. Um, all right. So how did you kind of transition from roadie lifestyle, uh, chief of staff to the rock stars to what you're doing now?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, so it was a big kind of aha moment I had so. Even back when I first jumped on that first tour bus and I realized that I just wanted to help people achieve their own dreams. Um, that was always in the back of my head. And this one rock star, I'm not allowed to name who it was, but he would always ask me, um, to, he had this crazy request that every time we traveled and got to a new hotel room, he wanted his. Toothbrush to be taken out of the suitcase and to be sanitized in a hotel dishwasher. So industrial, sanitized his toothbrush.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Wow.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Um, and so I always get asked like, one, did you do it? And I was like, yeah, actually I did do it. I didn't even think of her not doing it. And two, like, why didn't you just buy a new toothbrush? And I, I don't know, again, didn't ask, but that was. One of the requests. So a lot of times we'd be in hotels that we'd stayed in before and they would recognize me coming and they'd be like, oh yeah, here's this crazy lady with the toothbrush again. Um, but sometimes we'd be in hotels that were new or in a new city that we'd never played in. And so I had to, you know, a lot

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

It's.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

I would try to prepare, but a lot of times it's kind of hard to call ahead and be like, I'm putting a toothbrush in a dishwasher. So it was a almost a spur of the moment type thing. we were in Shanghai and I was trying to put this toothbrush in the dishwasher, and I was like in the back with the staff and I didn't speak their language, they didn't speak English, and I was just, you know, trying to make gestures with this toothbrush to put it in the dishwasher. And they were looking at me like I had three heads. Again, back in the day before there was like Google Translator or anything, um, and I didn't really have a translator with me and.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

If you have a strange lady coming, bringing a toothbrush in the dishwasher hotel, that's the.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, what is happening? I don't blame them. and I just remember standing there with toothbrush in hand thinking, there's gotta be more to life than this. And I realized that I, I really loved helping people and I wanted to help people. And, you know, tasks, like putting toothbrushes in dishwashers, I didn't really care about that, but I really wanted to be able to help. One more than one crazy rockstar at a time. And I thought, well, why don't I just come off the road and just, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but you know, there's gotta be a way for me to just help more than one person achieve their goals. Me running around the world after one person isn't, you know, expanding this process. So in 2007, I came off the road with just this dream. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no business background. I, yeah, no idea. Um, and my network, of course was like a lot of high profile, high net worth individuals. I started managing their homes and I started basically doing what I was doing. on the road, but just for them locally in, in Toronto. Um, and that grew into a business after that. So it, uh, still running a kind of personal concierge, personal lifestyle management company, um, across Canada and the us. But as I was doing that, I also realized that there was, there was more people we could help as well. Not just running their homes, but running like their calendars and their. Full. I always say like managing them as a person and not necessarily just personal or just business. It's like them as a whole. And I realized that that's what we were basically doing, running their household.'cause their business would always fall into it as well. Um, so then moved the business for Take it Easy, more into that Chief of staff, fractional chief of staff, fractional executive assistant space.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Wow. Okay. I love your tenacity where it's like, I have no background in this, but I'm gonna jump in and figure it out. And then you do, that's, that's trademark chief of staff. Love it. Um. So when you talk about like high net worth individuals and running their entire household, like all aspects of their life, I mean, I can imagine what that would be like for me, but I think you're talking about like, I like to buy that island, or I wanna go like get that restaurant or whatever. Like what types of things does that entail?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

we talked about this before and I have a funny story about one very high net worth individual, um, in Toronto, probably one of the most famous Canadian musicians, and there was a. Store, uh, a restaurant like a mom and pop Jamaican Patty restaurant closing. It was kind of famous and it was all over the news that it was closing. They were retiring. Um, and, you know, people of Toronto didn't want this restaurant to close. And so this, my client was like, oh, uh, I need you. He calls me up and he is like, can you just go buy this restaurant on my Amex? And I was like.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

As you do, you know.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

I was like, no, no, I can't. What goes in his mind is, but there's an unlimited spend on it. And I'm like, yep, nope, that's, that's not the problem. But you know, of course I will figure it out and we will buy this restaurant. There's just a couple more processes than handing over an Amex. Card. Um, so yeah, so managing their lives is managing just all those crazy ideas that come into their head. Um, also their staff. So they have a lot of, you know, cleaners on staff and people, gardeners, um, valets drivers, depending on how large their properties are. A lot of them have multiple properties, so when they decide to, you know, go off to. Wherever their second or third home is, making sure that it's stocked, that the staff is ready to go for their arrival, if they're having guests that you know, the guests are comfortable and they're ready. So just making sure again, that they are ready and prepared physically and mentally as well.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Wow. And so like how do you, um, how do you personally build trust with these folks? Or you have, you just already known them so they trust you. And then a secondary question is, I. Like, how do you build out their team, like the, the lawn people and the cleaners, and I'm imagining personal trainers and personal chefs and all these people around them. How do you make them feel comfortable with, with those staff members as well?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

so I am a huge believer and you are only as successful as your network and from back in the day when I was having to go get all these crazy requests like. Oh, I wanna have a party and I wanna have a live goat in the hotel room. For some reason, rock stars like goats and parties. I don't know why. Um, but you know, like it was like, okay, who can I call? Who's the, you know, farmer in this city that I need to call? Um, so, you know, I would never be able to have gotten anywhere without the connections and the relationships that I built that I could lean on when I was in the city, or I could lean on for their connections. Obviously, know, you can't just, it can't go one way. So we would always give them like free concert tickets or whatever they want. Signatures backstage passes, whatever they wanted. Um, but yeah, so I learned very early on that the. I could only get so far by myself, and that's what I took into when I opened my business. And again, had zero business background at all. But I, and I was like, I don't know how to go out and get a client. Maybe I should just call this person. And then I realized, oh, my clients are actually here through my network anyway. So I know it's kind of a copout, um, conversation, especially for people who are like, I don't have a network yet, which is totally fair. Um, but I, I truly believe that if you want to get to a certain place in your business or your career, you should start building your network. If you don't have it now, you should start, um, building it to a point where it is, you can lean on it for whatever you need.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Yeah. So, um, can you talk a little bit more about who take it? Easy group helps. So you mentioned high net worth individuals is, are these like entertainment folks? Are these in the sports world? Any high net worth? What, what does that look like?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, so really any high net worth, ultra net worth individual who has multiple businesses. Um, a lot of people come to us from, and I don't just mean multiple businesses, but I mean like multiple things on the go. So businesses, philanthropy, you know, a family office. Like just they need that chief of staff running their entire life and not just necessarily their business or their charity arm or whatever it is. Um, so those types of people, and again, just because that's kind of my network that I have always been around, we have a lot of former athletes that come to us. I think because they really understand the power of an assistant and it's not a conversation of, you know, you need a conversation, but it's like how strategic of an assistant you actually need, which is really interesting to me. Um, and they have a lot of personal assistance, but the personal assistants are amazing. It's. It's my background. I'm not putting down personal assistance at all, but they just don't necessarily have that business, um, mindset as well. So they need someone who can help with the business and the personal assistance are great to help with, you know, manage their lives on that side. so yeah, a lot of former athletes and then just a lot of just high growth founders, people who are building really cool things. You don't have to be a celebrity, you don't have to be ultra high net worth or high net worth, but if you have a really, really cool idea and you have that passion and drive behind you, that you understand that you need that strategic support, we're a good partner for you.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Love it. Yeah. And I love the fact that it sounds like when you're successful, you just have an understanding. You need this strategic support like you, like you will not be able to do what you can do without it. And I think, like I have so many conversations about like, what is the chief of staff? What, why is the chief of staff, do you really need a chief? I'm like, if you wanna. Take it to the next level. If you wanna be top of your field, then yes. If you don't, then like, sure, go ahead and don't have one. Um, so I love that, like you're, what I'm hearing is these people just know that and they're just like, okay, what, who am I gonna get? How strategic are they gonna be? And I'm curious too, if they already have like a team of personal assistance, do you come in and work with that existing team? Uh, do you bring in like your own staff? How does that typically work?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

It depends. Um, I am not here to take anybody out of a job at all. So, um, absolutely happy to work with, um, who, whoever their team is, even if they have chief of staff. We've come in and helped people, uh, on a contract basis. And when the chief of staff, as we all know,'cause I know you have mostly chief of staff listening, we, our jobs, our day to day are packed. And then somebody tells us, oh, there's this massive project now we have to do, or a new launch, or we're opening up in a new country or a city. And you're like, how the heck am I gonna get that off my plate or fit that into my schedule? Um, so we've come in and helped, uh, on a contract basis just be that second right hand person, um, to really be able to help bring those projects to life and get them across the finish line.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

And if you, if they want someone to like, design their team or design their support system, I'm, I'm like thinking of an example, like I have a charity and I have like a real estate business and I have multiple homes, like you say, okay, let me get some. One, to kind of be the manager of the, the, the house, the home situation, and then let me find someone to spearhead the philanthropy, the charity piece, blah, blah, blah. And then you kind of orchestrate the whole thing. Is that how it works or is that different?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, sometimes, again, it depends on the situation, so sometimes they just need, like, they need multiple people in each organization because they have tons of projects going on. Sometimes they just need one very strategic person at the head of everything. Who can delegate out to usually teams that are already in place, um, for, you know, philanthropic efforts and a business launch and whatever that they're doing. So again, it depends on the situation, but. I know we've talked about it and I'm sure you'll have lots of conversations about the definition of a chief of staff and they, you know, it can be anything these days really. Um, and for us and what we do, it's a lot of that strategic project management support and team alignment with administrative help as well, just because that's my background. Um, but that's kind of how we fall into helping manage all those different arms.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Yeah. And are you. I mean, are you personally becoming chief of staff to all these folks and then popping out to another engagement? Or do you have like a team of people that you place? How does that work?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

So if I was doing it all, um, I would not be here. I'd be dead probably. There's definitely not enough hours in the day for that. Um, yes, I have a team of wonderful full-time, so they're full-time with me with Take It Easy. Chief of Staff and Executive Assistants. Um, that we then contract out or, uh, partner out with multiple clients depending on the engagement and the level of engagement. Uh, so it's our responsibility at take it easy to find them, the clients, and it's their responsibility to kind of live up to the, take it easy expectations of how they, uh, partner and work with the clients.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Wow. Okay. Okay. So if someone's listening, what type of, what type of folks or background or just like traits and like character assets would you need? I.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yes. So, um, being able to understand the lifestyles of, uh, you know, high net worth individuals and ultra high net worth individuals is really important because they're, they're. is just the way they think and operate is very different than, say, a founder, um, who has a lot of big goals. So understanding that, um, having experience in the startup space as well as corporate is really helpful because it, um. It just helps you work across both the functions that we usually get clients in and the startup space. I find that you can run a lot faster and just understand that chaos is always a thing. Um, so that's really helpful. The, we do a lot of testing around proactive and strategic thinking, so if you're a proactive strategic thinker, we would love, actually I'm hiring right now, so if anyone is listening. Please, uh, go to my LinkedIn. We can put a note to the bottom and, uh, send me your resume. Um, but yeah, proactive thinkers are really important as well. Um, and yeah, anyone who just likes to work with a, we're very collaborative on the Take It Easy team. Um, we love to have fun. We went on our team trip this year to Coachella. Um, very important to have that music background. Um, so yeah, we, we are like a fun collaborative, not very corporate team, um, but then being able to kind of like put on that face for the clients as well.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Beautiful. And we will have that LinkedIn link in the show notes. And then is there a website or anything you wanna point people to to learn more?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Yeah, take it easy. group.com is where you can find everything.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Beautiful. And what is your new podcast about?

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Oh, can I swear on this podcast?

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

can.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

Okay, so the podcast is called Fuck the Fluff, and it is um, well a little backstory again'cause I like backstories. Um, but I was getting kind of frustrated with the fluffy advice that is always kind of put out on podcasts. And as you can hear in what I've been trying to talk about and share stories is I like to give actual. Takeaways and as I call them nuggets, um, for people to be able to go, oh yeah, I'm having that problem, or I can see that, how I can get that out of it. Whereas a lot of times people especially like, you know, pretty famous people or people who do those like podcast circuits, you'll hear, oh yeah, I went from living on the street to being a billionaire. And you're like, well, that's great. Like how did you,

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

Yeah.

tarra_1_06-11-2025_113326:

the steps? That you actually took and then you hear a lot, oh, I manifested it. Um, and it's like, no, like you actually had to do something to get there, or else we'd have a lot more billionaire, uh, you know, entrepreneurs in our, in our world. Um, so I just really wanted to share. I. The like non fluffy advice of actually how to build success. Um, I love talking to female founders, female entrepreneurs, female business owners who have been through really shitty times as we all have in running our businesses, and can share that, that non fluffy advice on how they got through to the other side.

emily-sander_1_06-11-2025_083326:

That's awesome. Okay. We'll have any of that information in the show notes as well. But um, Tara, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for sharing some really fun stories and really appreciate you and what you're doing