Leveraging Leadership

Australia’s Chamber of Commerce: Bridging Local, National, and International Business

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 203

Share episode

Chanelle Pearson, Chief of Staff at the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, shares how her career moved from journalism to leading teams in advocacy, media, and events. She talks about launching the Chamber Change women’s leadership program, organizing the upcoming World Chambers Congress in Melbourne, and balancing her diverse responsibilities. Chanelle also offers advice for other Chiefs of Staff and explains how her team listens to members and shapes business policy.

Links Mentioned:
14th World Chambers Congress


Free Resources:

 

Get in Touch With Emily:

 

Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

00:39 Chanelle Pearson's Career Journey
02:25 Understanding Chambers of Commerce
04:05 Victorian Chamber of Commerce Activities
07:38 Women in Business Program
13:56 Role of Chief of Staff
19:00 World Chambers Congress
26:09 Final Thoughts and Farewell

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

Welcome back to

1752613307612:

Leveraging leadership today, I am joined by Chanel Pearson, who is the chief of staff at the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. Chanel, welcome to the show. Hi, Emily. It's great to be with you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to share your story, and I always ask guests how they became chief of Staff, and you have a really interesting story that involves media and communications and different things, and mayors and all these,

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

all

1752613307612:

these things. So tell us how you became Chief of Staff, please. Well, interesting is one word for it. Um, sometimes I think that it's a bit of a story of failure because, uh, what I wanted to be always when I was younger was a TV reporter. I loved the news. I loved the, um, I suppose the glamor of it, and that's what I set my sights on. Studied incredibly hard. Um. Was a really hard worker, would put myself forward for any type of work experience, anything in the media. That's just what I had my, my heart set on. And then throughout the process, I somehow wound up work, wound up working in state politics, so in the Victorian, uh, state opposition. And after five years there, which I loved and just learned so much when it came time to move on to, you know, go to the next step in my career, I reflected and I went, actually, I really. Don't wanna do that anymore. I love being on the other side. Some people call it the dark side when you move out of, uh, out of media and into advising, but I loved the fact that I could actually help shape the narrative and shape the stories and make a public policy contribution rather than just report on the stories. And so that's really led me to where I am today through various roles in local, state, uh, and federal government and also in, uh, industry bodies. Including the one that I work now in the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and industry. And I think every chief of staff that I've come across particularly, you know, all the, the great chiefs of staff that I come across are very purpose driven. And I think that that's what I, that's what drives me and um, that's what's kept me over here on the dark side. Beautiful. Thank you. And, and you mentioned there just a minute ago about

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

about

1752613307612:

the local, state and national level. And in the United States we have.

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

have,

1752613307612:

I believe the same structure, so I know why of my local city Chamber of Commerce, which helps local businesses, network and find each other. And then there's the state. We have 50 states and that's maybe advocating for certain legislation. And then there's the national part. I believe there's an international Chamber of Commerce that kind of leads into stuff you're doing in the future, but just for general context, for our US based listeners, how is that organized in Australia? In terms of the chambers of commerce, similarly, yes. Yeah. Um, very similar. So we do have local chambers of commerce, so in regional towns, um, and in cities themselves. And then we do also have state chambers of commerce, of which we are one. And then we also have the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. And we are actually a major shareholder of. The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry because basically we, um, charge them with doing our national work because it wouldn't make sense for every state chamber to have a presence in, uh, Canberra, which is the equivalent to our Washington, I suppose, to do that advocacy work for us. And then as you correctly mentioned, there is the International Chamber of Commerce and industry as well, which I'm working really. Closely with, uh, to bring to Melbourne in September, the World Chambers Congress, which is the first time that it'll be hosted here. So it's held in another global city every second year. So Melbourne first time, incredibly excited to have it. It was held in Sydney, one of our. Sister Cities, of course, in 2017. So that's going to be huge and um, is keeping me very busy at the moment. I can only imagine. Yes. And I definitely wanna get to that just for the Victorian Chamber of Commerce. What, what is the mandate and what are your main activities and scope there? Essentially we exist so businesses in our state can be successful. So we basically offer every type of service that you need, every type of forum that you need to be successful in business in our state. So we run a series of events. I actually oversee our events team on top of, um, a few other teams. So I think we run something like 120 events a year, which can be anything from small round tables. To huge, um, galas, uh, and the world chambers Congress obviously. So for example, just this year we ran a major autumn ball and we had, um, as our guest there, Eric Banner, whom you might know, Emily. Yes,

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

yes

1752613307612:

I do. Yes I do. He's been on the screens worldwide, so, you know, really, um, fantastic events. We run training courses. We are one of our. State's largest training providers. We also are the largest connector of apprentices with employers in, in the country. Uh, and we, we exist, or chambers of commerce exist to provide, um, that certification to export. So that's called certificates of origin, uh, which is something people don't know that we do. Another really interesting thing that we do is, um, provide basically the passport for passports. For goods. So for example, if you are, uh, going overseas to. Um, put on a concert, all of those, all of those equipment, so all the instruments, they all need a passport to show that they're traveling and that they're coming back. So, um, that can be really interesting as well. And, and one area that I'm closest to obviously is that advocacy piece. So being that. That voice, that strong voice for business, uh, which was particularly important here during COVID. Um, as you know, we were the longest lockdown city in the world, I think. So having the voice of business was extremely important. And, and that was the time that I came over to the Victorian Chamber. So that was sort of part, again, of that purpose for me to help, you know, raise that voice of business. Amazing. And I'm gonna try to, to not make this entire episode about Eric Bana

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

and

1752613307612:

Chris Tamworth and every, uh, other actors that come from Australia. Um, some of my favorite. But you mentioned one of your teams, I believe was the events team. And I'm wondering, so a lot of chiefs of staff we speak to don't have teams or they have one or two direct reports, and it sounds like you might have multiple teams rolling up to you. So I'm curious about that structure. Yeah, that's, uh, that's right. I oversee, uh, the media function. Um, obviously I'm a journalist by trade and, and that is my background. So that would make sense. That's how I actually came into the organization. Yeah, before I became the chief of staff, uh, events. Yes. Oversee the events team, which is, you know, something, an area I've never really worked in before. But I suppose, you know, I love people and I love, um, seeing them have a great time. So that was kind of a natural segue for me. Uh, the World Chambers Congress, I oversee that department as well, which is, you know. Probably the biggest project that we've got going on at the moment. Uh, also our Women in Business Program Chamber Change. Oh yeah, our chief executive and I designed that, uh, a bit over three years ago now, and we've just, uh, we're just about to clock through 500 participants. Uh, and we're up to program nine. And our national government through the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry have actually funded it to go national. So over the next few months, I'll be training every other. State and territory chamber in the country to run this program. It's been an amazing success and something I'm really passionate about as well. Wow, that's amazing. Congratulations. And talk a little bit about that women's initiative. So was this your idea? Was it in conjunction with your CEO? It sounded like. How did that come about? Yeah. So, um, the Victorian Chamber for quite a while had wanted to do something in this gender equity space, as we know there's not enough, uh, women in senior leadership positions. And we were looking at, you know, why is that and what can we do to address that? And we didn't wanna just create. Another program that was, you know, same old, recreate the wheels. So what our chief executive and I did, and it was during COVID too, by the way. So a lot of this was on Zoom, was, um, speak to the, some of the experts in this field. So we have an organization here called wia, which is the, um, gender Equity Association, the National Association, which is headed up by, uh, an incredible woman named Mary Wildridge. We spoke with her, we spoke with some other leaders in this space. Uh, women like Carol Schwartz. What's working, what's not working? Where do you think the gaps in the market are? We spoke to other industry associations that had similar programs, uh, and we came up with what we thought was a good idea. And then at that point we surveyed our members to say, Hey, what do you wanna see in this space? What do you think that we should create? And out of that, the feedback was that 70% wanted to see more women in positions of leadership and 50% wanted more, um, networking opportunities for women. Mm-hmm. So from off the back of that, we designed. The program called Chamber Change. So effectively every program is three sessions and the participant groups, there's about 30 in each group in each program, and they hear from our champions. So the champions are senior women in business, so CEOs, vice chancellors, highly impressive women. You know, the idea is if you can see it, you can be it. They speak to our participant groups on the topic of either power. Balance or career journey, and our participants get to hear from them. I do a bit of a q and a with the participants. Then we also have a networking component and also a presenting with purpose training workshop. So setting our participants up for success. And so then out of that, the three sessions per program, uh, cohorts have formed between the participants themselves. They've heard these inspirational, inspiring stories, and then they go on and. Basically they're inspired to further their career. And the success stories that I've had out of this program have been like, truly incredible. People have told us that it is life changing. It's encouraged them to go for the next job. They're still in contact with their cohorts. They've, um, found a mentor in some of the champions. And yeah, it's just been incredibly rewarding to be a part of.

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

And just,

1752613307612:

just curious, how did you, there's many other programs that do similar things, as you mentioned, it seems like you're uniquely positioned to offer something in that space. How did you find that niche and make sure, okay, we're gonna operate in a different way than what other people are offering. I suppose just the, um, the concept and the position of where the Chamber of Commerce sits in, in the landscape, in the business landscape in that basically we have the connections in with our business network and we see what's going on in terms of. Leadership overall and, and how we can play that role and how we can really influence. Um, that's really been our sweet spot, I suppose, in that we are so connected into business and we're a trusted voice, I suppose. We are. We're not just a, um, a commercial entity. We are actually, you know, very purpose-driven, purpose-led, and we are trusted by our members. So I think that's where, that's why it's been so successful. Yeah, the, the trust and the reputation goes a long way. And I remember as chief of staff, I was chief of staff for a company in the private sector and one of my jobs was to speak with customers and make sure we were getting the voice of the customer into our leadership

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

discussion. So

1752613307612:

So I'm imagining, you mentioned survey and different, different constituents and stakeholders. How do you and your team

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

teams

1752613307612:

make sure that you're hearing the voice of the people around you and what they're asking for and what they're really after from the Chamber of Commerce? The most important thing is to listen, isn't it? Um, I think in, in all of those matters, like we are listening and we're talking to our members every day, you know, whether that be, you know, at events or at meetings or at round tables or, um, we also run task forces, so we'll focus in on particular issues that we wanna see. Speak to our members about and learn more from them about, and that then enables us to shape, you know, what is the position that we then take to usually to government. Um, could be federal or state or local government, but that enables us to speak with authority because we are, we've got the. Uh, Intel from the coalface if you like. Um, there's an expression that I do love, which is, you know, in God we trust and all others bring data, we also rely very heavily on surveying our members as well, you know, strength in numbers. And we don't pretend to have all the answers. You have to speak to people at the coalface. To know. And, um, I mean, I say often chambers of commerce exist to be that conduit between business and government because government can't possibly speak to every business. And Sure business, every business can't possibly speak to government. So that is where, where and why we exist. And, and that's a really important role and, um, and a role that we take, you know, very seriously. Yeah, certainly. And it sounds like there's two big sides of that if you're the conduit between business and government, and you mentioned the different levels of government as well. Are you doing activities and making sure you're building and maintaining relationships on that end as well? Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, we talk with government every day on every, on very many, many different levels. We have a fantastic policy and advocacy team here at the Victorian Chamber who are, you know, very tapped into members, but also into government. Uh, we have obviously our executive team, our chief executive, myself, there wouldn't be, um, a person there wouldn't be a, um. Level of government that we are not talking to every single day. And as I mentioned earlier, we also have that network of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, which is, you know, a fantastic organization in its own right. And then we also have the International Chamber of Commerce, which sort of does that, uh, advocacy piece on a global scale. So, you know, we're a big, uh, a big network and a very important one to be that voice of business. Yes. And you mentioned some of the internal teams there. So for the fellow chiefs of staff listening, how do you interact with your principal, the CEO? What's your interaction like with the other executive team members or equivalents thereof? Yeah, I mean, I think look like a lot of chiefs of staff. My job changes as the needs of the organization changes. Uh, but on, so obviously I work in extremely closely with our chief executive. My primary role is obviously to be that, uh, key strategic council to our chief executive and also on our executive team. We do have our executive assistant, whom I also work really closely with. We have a Chief executive of the Committee for Melbourne, and that is our top membership tier, essentially. So it's sort of a department within the Victorian Chamber. Uh, we have our CFO, our Executive Director of Policy and Advocacy, who I mentioned earlier, our executive director. Uh, information Communications and Technology Executive Director of Commercial Services, our executive director, membership, international and Apprenticeship Services, hr, and then of course, me. So, um, how do I work in with the principal or extremely closely is the answer to that. Um, we meet formally, uh. As an executive team as well, and collaborate, obviously daily, depends on the projects that I'm working on on any particular day. Um, and also given my remit to oversee media as well. Um, you know, that's, that's a daily occurrence and can happen, you know, anytime from five in the morning till 11 at night or overnight.'cause as we know, media doesn't sleep. So, um, very, a very close. Working relationship because it needs to be. And, and you know, it's a great working relationship too. We, um, we also enjoy each other's company, have a lot of fun, um, yeah. And get along really well. Uh, the executive team are also fantastic and we very much operate as a big, as a unit and we're, you know, very collaborative. Yeah. How do you balance all that you do? I mean, you mentioned so many different things there. Media is 24 7 and you have that background, so you know better than anyone. And then you have things like, I'm organizing. This worldwide event coming up later this year? I mean, how do you, I mean, how do you balance all that? Oh, it's funny actually, Emily, in our, uh, women in Business program Chamber Change, one of the recurring themes is balance and, um, one of the analogies. That is often used is that for burn a stove, you know, at some point you've gotta turn up, you know, work and then family goes down or friends are up and exercise or health is down. And I sort of think of my work life like that. Um, you know, it'll depend on the time and the, and the priorities. That, that need your attention. So at the moment, I'm probably 70% on the world Chamber's Congress. Oh, okay.'cause that's only, you know, six weeks away. And, uh, that's, that's the project that I'm overseeing, so really important and is taking a lot of my time and energy. Uh, and then probably our chamber change program, as I mentioned, that's going national, so that's taking a bit more of my time at the moment now too. Um, and then you've got sort of media and events and then, you know, a little bit of, uh, traditional. Chief of staff type duties, and that's probably on the lower end of the burner at the moment. Um, so it just, you know, you've just gotta prioritize. Um, have incredible teams, trust your teams, empower your teams, and, you know, they, they will do incredible jobs, which they are. Um, I love seeing people thrive and grow under that, you know, having that autonomy has been. Incredible. Yeah. As I said, I'm really fortunate to have really great direct reports here at the Chamber, so yeah, it's, that always helps. It's a balance. Yeah, it's a balance, you know, like everything like life, you've just gotta prioritize day to day and, uh, everyone has the same hours in the day as Beyonce. It's how you use, use it. Yes. I heard someone describe it with the, it's like an orchestra. You're the ma, you're the maestro, and it's like the drums are will come, but the strings will come up and then this part will fade out. And I'm like, yes, that's right. It's not. Balance necessarily. It's just kind of, this is being emphasized during this part of the song, but, um, I can relate to you in the sense that I had. Key initiatives where it's like, okay, I'm being assigned to this. This is gonna take 75% of my time, and it sounds like maybe similar to you. I would turn around to my team and say, okay, guess what? I'm gonna be over here for 75% of the time. Which means for you, you get to, you get to step up. In these other areas and they, my team members were fantastic and they stepped up and did things better than I did. So I'm wondering if that's kind of the, I love when that happened. The same kind of analysis for you. Hey, I know this set event is coming up, so for the first half of 2025, I'm gonna be pretty dedicated over here. Does that give you a chance to speak to your other team members in, in their roles? Absolutely. And as you said, Emily, it's been amazing just to see them step up and, um, you know, run the show really. Uh, it's great to see that capability coming out. And, you know, change is great. Change is refreshing, and, you know, if we can't, uh, do that as chiefs of staff, as executives, you know, I don't think that we're, I think we're doing ourselves a disservice. So you've just gotta sort of roll with the punches and, uh, life goes on and, uh, just do your best. Absolutely. So tell us about this. Is it World Chambers, Congress, the 14th World Chambers Congress is coming, is coming to, and you're running this whole, whole show? Oh, yes. Well, look, with my teams and, and across the whole broader department, um, there's not a person in, in the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and industry that doesn't have some kind of, uh, role to play in the world. Chambers Congress, we sort of refer to it as the business Olympic. Essentially it's, you know, the biggest business event, uh, in, in the world. Really, it's that opportunity for Chamber of Commerce executives all over the world to get together and share, you know, best practice insights in and intel. Um, it's, as I said, it's the first time that we've hosted, it's co-organized with. The International Chamber of Commerce, world Chambers Federation, uh, and US of course, and it's a three day forum. So Global Network under the theme of business chambers, government partners for prosperity. As I mentioned earlier, we really see Chambers of Commerce as being that conduit between business and government. So what we wanted to really unpack as part of our Congress was, you know, how we play that role. So making it more inclusive of. Government and chambers, not just, sorry, government and business, not just, you know, chambers talking to Chambers and having been to a few of these forums around the world in the last few years and beyond that, it's, it's really interesting that you can kind of pick up any of these congresses and drop it anywhere else in the world. And we are all facing the same issues. You know, it's geopolitical tensions. Yes, it's ai. Energy, it's housing, it's skills shortages, and that has been quite incredible to me. So I, so I, you know, when we were designing this, this program, it was like, let's explore these huge issues that are relevant for cha, not just Chambers, but. Business and government and really unpack that on a global scale and, and, you know, see where we land. So we'll be hearing from world renowned thought leaders and policy makers. Um, the US will have a really great contingent, uh, we hope. Um, we've, we've got Gary Lipman, the Senior Vice President of Global Initiatives at the US Chamber of Commerce. We've got the OCD. Yeah, so us coming over, we've got the os. C. D. Secretary General with is Corman, the director of the Global Indicators Group at the World Bank, Norman Za, and you know, many more thought leaders, our premier Jacinta Allen. So it's going to be terrific. As you can tell, I'm very passionate about it. And looking forward to a rest on the 5th of September.

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

Not that

1752613307612:

that you have that circled on your calendar, counting down the days or anything. Um, yes. Fantastic. Do you know about how many countries are being represented? A hundred countries, Emily. So it's very much yeah. A global event. And, and you know, Melbourne is a really multicultural city. I think we are one of the most multicultural cities in the world. So, you know, this is not unusual for us. We're used to welcome, we we're basically a country, um, you know, built on multiculturalism. So, you know, we are very welcoming city. Uh, we're an exciting, vibrant city. Really excited to welcome our. Colleagues from all around the world. And, um, actually just later this week, I'm heading over to the US with our chief executive for the, um, American, uh, the American version, basically. So that's going to be really interesting just to see how the, you know, what the difference is for, um, Victorian or Australian Chambers of Commerce and then, you know, how they operate in the US and, and also to forge some connections there and hopefully, uh, entice a lot of them to come over to the 14th World Chambers Congress. Yes, for sure. And so you mentioned a lot of the businesses are coming in are being that with the same issue, so AI and different things like this. How do you put together your program or your agenda? Do you wanna hit the things that have already been talked about but give the updates? Were you trying to add a fresh flavor to things? How did you put that together? Yeah, I mean, look, all of the above. Um, we've, as I mentioned earlier, working really closely with the International Chamber of Commerce. Uh, we both have incredible policy teams who, you know, that they, they look at these issues every day and they are at the forefront of those issues because they're speaking to our members, they're speaking to governments, so they know, you know, what is. What is, what is needed? What do business need to hear? What does government need to hear from business and vice versa? So it's very much, what's the status now? How can we work together to achieve great impact in these areas and what does it look like going forward? So it's a bit of all of that. Um, but very much, you know, I'd say future focused and how can we make real impact and how we can we make a real difference. Yeah. And is is the.

emily-sander_1_07-15-2025_140146:

Congress speaking

1752613307612:

to economic development, is that international policy? Is it all of the above? Is is, is there one theme that you and your team have tried to really center and focus it on? Or is it just Emily? It's, it's everything and anything. The theme overall is, um, business chambers, governments partners for prosperity. So we are very much centered on how do we drive and influence prosperity, global prosperity, economic prosperity, um, what is our role in that? Yes. And if someone in the US or anywhere in the world is listening, they're part of a chamber of commerce, either at the local, state or national level, are they invited to come? How do they, how do they decide whether they can make it over? What's, what are the requirements? Tell us about that. Oh, they most certainly are. I would love to see you all here. Um, just, um, their website is, uh, wcc dot icc wbo.org, or you can just Google the 14th World Chambers Congress. Anyone can register. So, as I mentioned earlier, we'd love to see business government chambers all represented there. And, and we know from the registration so far, we are going to get. Fantastic cross representation. Um, we also actually got that, funnily enough, the Chief of Staff Association is one of our sponsors. Yes. So we expect to have a large cohort of, uh, chiefs of staff. Um, we wanna see lots of chiefs of staff here as well. So. Good. We've had Trenton Good. Yeah. Ex. Oh, you've had Trent on? Yeah. Mm-hmm. They're fantastic. Yeah. Really great, um, organization and, and they're very much leaned into the world Chambers Congress. So it's anyone really who has an interest in that global prosperity. We wanna see you here. I love that. I love that the chief of staff cohort is being represented. So good job. Trent, the Chief of Staff Association, they're, they're an awesome group and he's got so much energy, so if he's there, he'll bring the life to the party. Um, for folks listening, when, when is this event, uh. This event is from the second to the 4th of September, Emily. And of course there is also a welcome reception. It wouldn't be Melbourne without a party. So that's being held at Melbourne Sea Life Aquarium on the 2nd of September. And then we have a gala dinner, which will be incredible, which is on the 4th of September, on the Thursday. And that's at Crown Palladium, which is one of our fantastic function spaces here in, uh, in Melbourne. Yes. And will Eric Bana be attending any of those events at all? Can you get him on the roster? Oh, you never know. You're luck in a big city like Melbourne. As you've, as you've said, we've got a lot of staff power here. If any of the Hemsworth brothers are there, I will personally fly to that event. Also from Melbourne, the Hemsworth boys, so who know? Yes. Yes. And I would be remiss not to ask if you're speaking to aspiring chiefs of staff or current chiefs of staff, what advice or guidance or any pearls of wisdom would you wanna pass on? Oh goodness. Uh, where to start? Um, I think the most important thing is, you know, being yourself, being authentic, um, being true to your purpose and your values. I think you know that if you, that's my North star. Um, you can't go wrong, really. I mean, I love that expression to be yourself because everyone else is taken, like we're in these roles because of what we have to offer, so. Really lean into that and, and, you know, back yourself, um, investing in your network. So who is going to help you to achieve your goals? And when I say your goals, I'm talking about the broader organization's goals, the principal's goals, who are your aligned partners and, you know, get out from behind the desk, meet people, go to events, press the flesh. There's, there's no shortcuts for that personal connection and being a trusted and encouraging coach and leader for your teams. Again, we spoke a bit about this earlier, Emily, it makes your life a lot easier if you've got fantastic. People, um, surrounding you. And you can only do that by encouraging, you know, their ambition, their innovation and their progression. And if your teams are doing well, that's of course a great reflection on you and it makes, you know, expands your resources. So that's really a no brainer for me and it's incredibly rewarding and continuing to grow and learn through. Further education, reading self-improvement books, and listening to podcasts like your fantastic podcast, Emily, which I've been doing a lot of myself. Um, and just acknowledging, uh, as you mentioned earlier about, uh, you know, the burners, uh, that burner analogy that we talked about, you know, givers as a lot of chiefs of staff are, I think, you know, looking after yourself and being aware of that need for balance. None of us can do everything. Uh, and finally also I found my membership of. The Chief of Staff Association, as we mentioned a bit earlier, has been really beneficial both from an educational and a network perspective as well. Very cool. And I don't know if you can think further past the World Congress, but are there, are there any other things that you or the Victorian Chamber of Commerce industry are excited for later in the year, even into 2026? Well, interestingly, um, and particularly in my role, we actually have a new chief executive coming on board. Oh. Um, yeah, just, uh, just on the same time as the World Chambers Congress. So that's going to be really exciting. Uh, you know, a new, a new CEO, a new head, um, new. Fresh vision. So that's really exciting for the chamber. And, um, our chief executive, who I've worked with for the past five years has been an incredible leader. Like, if anyone could, uh, fill those shoes, our incoming chief executive, Sally Curtin is, is the woman for the job. And, you know, that's really energizing for the organization, for the business community, and something we are looking forward to as well. Beautiful. Well, um, as you and I mentioned before we got on the air, we did see the sunrise because you got up so early to take this call. So now it is light. But um, thank you so much Chanel really appreciate you sharing everything. And one more time, the website, if people wanna find out more, where can they go for more information there? It's wcc icc wbo.org. Beautiful. And we'll have that in the show notes. Chanel, thank you so much again. Thank you so much, Emily. Congratulations on a fabulous podcast. Thank you.