Leveraging Leadership

Redefining Success as Chief of Staff in a Global Organization

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 121

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Frank Noyola shares how he went from turning down the Chief of Staff role at Quest Global to shaping it into a job focused on strategy, team building, and supporting a rapidly evolving CMO/Chief Strategy Officer. He talks about building a small team to handle operations, collaborating with the only other Chief of Staff at the company, and making sure the position stays a “driver” role instead of just administrative support. Frank also offers advice for principals on defining and maximizing the impact of a Chief of Staff.


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Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

00:33 Marathon Journey
01:40 Chief of Staff Role Introduction
02:25 Initial Hesitations
03:38 Open and Transparent Conversations
05:01 Defining the Role
11:57 Building a Team
15:02 Collaboration with Other Chiefs of Staff
17:58 Navigating the Role
23:05 Interaction with the CEO
26:55 Advice and Reflections

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Frank, awesome to have you on the show. Thanks for being on Leveraging Leadership.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Hi. Thank you Emily for having me. I'm excited to be here.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

So last time we spoke you had just completed your 13th marathon, so it has 14th happened or you're still like just hanging

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

not,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

13 marathons.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

not, yet. Just 13. Um, that was at the beginning of this month, so. I tend to do two marathons a year, one in the spring and one in the fall. Um, I know, I know. I, um, I don't know. I'm crazy that way, but I do enjoy it. It is something that's break me, I don't know, joy and satisfaction in a weird way. So I have not signed up for my 14th one though. I still dunno which one I'm going to do.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Wow. Wow.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

see.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

there's some transferable skills like resilience and perseverance and training and all that good

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

You know, it has me in very odd ways. Uh, I think the biggest one is mostly just I learned a lot about myself

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Hmm.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

running for a really, really long time.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

You get a lot of time. with yourself too. Yeah. Well, um, I'm, I'm impressed by one marathon and the fact you've done 13 and continue to wanna do more, it's just even more impressive. So, um, awesome job on, on all of that again. Um, and so we'll get into your chief of staff role here. So you've been

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Sure.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

your company for 11 plus

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

I am all just shy of 11 years

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Okay. And give us like the, like 32nd, like what does your company do just for context and

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Sure we are Quest Global. Uh, we're an engineering service provider, uh, company. We support, um, a different verticals across the entire world. Um, mainly based out, most of our people are based out of India, but we have a large group in the US as well as in Europe. And I currently is the chief of staff for the marketing department.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Very cool. And you initially did not want the chief of staff job, so what?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

is, that is correct. That is a hundred percent correct. So I've seen some of like your podcasts and I've been following you for quite some time and I've noticed some comments and also some like. Other people's observations of the chief of staff role, which I can totally relate with, which to me, it used to be, I guess my understanding of the role was just like a glorified admin, um, that worked really closely with someone who was really impactful, powerful within the organization, but like really was just a nice role for an administrative role. Um, and yeah, so that's why when it was. Offered to me, not by my, my principal, but by someone else in the department. I immediately was like, not interested, um, because I, I think I was bringing more value to the organization with the role that I had at that time, which was leading the internal communications team.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

So you were like, they were like chief of staff and you were like, no, thank you. I'm

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

No, thank you.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

No, thank you. So what were the, what were some of the conversations like with, with your now principal during that

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

of change your mind?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah. So, um, it was one of the people that reported to her that reached out to me and told me about this opening. And I, that's the one that I said like, I don't think so. Um, but I'll be happy to have a conversation if like. If it's needed or whatever. Um, and then eventually I ended up speaking with my principal, so like my CMO and I was totally open and transparent. One of our cultural pillars within Quest Global is being open and transparent, and I carry that value very deeply to who I am. Um, so with that, I was just like, I will be fully open and transparent in this conversation. My understanding of this role is basically a glorified admin. Um, she's had two other chief of staffs prior to me,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Yeah.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

um, that I had worked or have seen worked, um, in some way, shape or form. And they both worked very differently. But what I had seen, it wasn't something that I wanted to do. Not to say that like their work wasn't meaningful or didn't bring value. It was just maybe not the strengths that I was, not that I had or the strengths that I have. I just didn't see them. I. Come alive in what I would see them do as, as a role. So it just really wasn't much of a, of a fit in my opinion. Um, but we, I mean, I shared my concerns and she enlightened me on like, well, the role. It is really whatever the person wants to make out of the role. So it can be as tactical as one wants it, or it can be as strategic as one would like it to be. And that was really intriguing to me because I really enjoy these. Odd roles that really don't have a definition. When I joined Quest Global, I joined as a business manager, which at the time we had a couple business managers across the globe, but we were, I think it was only like one or two here in the us. The role in it by itself was kind of like undefined. It was, it had some parameters, some understanding, but you also kind of just like made it up as you were going, um, which I really liked. That was really intriguing. I really liked that. Make it something that it was. Kind of like what I wanted to look like. So in the same way, this role when it was presented to me, it was very much this huge appeal of like, well, you can make it as you want it to make it. Like what are you, what are the things that you would like to see? What are the things that you do really well at? Um, and that was, um, a huge plus for me. And then the more things that we discussed was, um, I wanna be able to. Utilize like my biggest strengths. So the big question that I asked her was, in the ideal world, what would the chief of step look like for you? What do you need? What are the things that you are missing currently? Um, or like, what would you like this to evolve to? That was awesome because that, um, just provide a little bit more insight of like. Where I could really like play and where I could elevate the role. And one of my biggest strengths, in my opinion is be more strategic. And if I have the time and I could just like sit down and think that's like when I do my best work, um, with just like strategizing on what we can do, how we can solve this problem, what's gonna bring more efficiency, et cetera, that kind of stuff. So that was really much what she was looking for and what she wanted this world to get towards. Um. So that totally changed my mind from being a, no, I don't want this. No, thank you. Pass to like, Hmm.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Tell me

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Maybe it's a good thing.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

That's awesome. I, I love number one that were able to have that conversation. So Quest has the culture, but like you're able to have that open and transparent conversation. then I like that you had that conversation and you're like, I'm just gonna go in there and like have this straightforward conversation. Um, and of course I love that you were like from a no thank you. Please and thank you to like, ooh, actually no, I would like some of that.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

I do want this. Yeah. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

a perfect fit, in fact.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yes,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Love

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

it's been a great fit. It's been an absolutely great experience so far. Um, but again, we continue this open and transparent cultural and as well as an open and transparent communication between, um, my boss and myself on like ways that we could do better. Where am I falling short or like, what are things that like I need to make sure I'm paying close attention to that I might have just not missed. You know, you just never know what you don't know, and those are the things that hurt you the most. So it's always like bringing that insight into like what are things that I don't see and vice versa that maybe she does not see, but I can bring values. Like, well, here's another observation that maybe we could like improve or change or whatever it is.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Yeah. And you've mentioned a few times, your principal is the CMO, so Chief Marketing Officer, and she's also the Chief Strategy Officer, so very influential C-Suite roles, but not the CEO. So a lot of chief of staff support the CEO. So I'm wondering kind of how does that shape role and what you do day to day and,

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

how does that work?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

well, great question. Yes. Um, at first, so lemme like backtrack a little bit on this, like, when I took on the role, she was the CMO, right? And then shortly after she had that role, she was given this other responsibility, like this other department that she was leading, uh, which was the head of global sales Operations. So for a period of time I was helping her do both, like the marketing side of things, also the sales operations side of things. Um, now things have. Change evolved and whatever. And um, now she is the chief Strategy Officer. That's her official title, but it also includes the marketing, um, CMO

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

more and more. It sounds like she's good at what she does,

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

more. Oh, she's amazing. Yes, absolutely. Um, so with that, it's been really fun because now my role also, like I told you just a few seconds ago, that my favorite thing is. Think big picture, what are those challenges that we're facing? How can we solve them? Um, so it allows me to play a lot in that field, but really within my day to day is, um, maybe we look at it like a three different pieces or like hats that I play. I have a small team, uh, of two people. And so initially when I, they're both are in India and I'm in the us so my beginning of my day is really involved with making sure that they're set up for success. One of them handles like the administrative work for the department leaders within our department. And then the other handles more like the operational side of our department, so like the financials, the budget, invoicing, vendor registration, et cetera like that. Um, so it makes sure that all that is taken care of. So that's like one piece of my hat. Another hat that, that I put on is. Really working with the department, um, leaders, uh, to make sure they have, you know, what they need to be successful. So as a chief of staff, I view my role as my role is to ensure that the functionality of the department is operating to best of its ability, um, and meeting all of our like organizational goals. So we're enabling the company to be successful. Um, so I need to make sure that our leaders are also set up for success, right? Like, do they need something else? Is there something that I need to, like escalate? Is there something that we need to brainstorm and collaborate with another department? Um, there's a lot going on there. And the third role is then comes like the, the strategy side of things. So any strategic projects that are working with, um, my chief strategy officer on figuring out, okay, like now what is the big picture here now, what is the next challenge that we're trying to overcome? Or, um, we just completed 28 years at Quest Global. And we have line of sight to becoming a centenary organization. With that comes its difficulties, its challenges and a lot of strategies that need to be put in place so that we can ensure that this company outlives most of the people that are working at it right now. Um, so with that comes a lot of like a thinking power that needs to be just mobilized. That's kinda how I view my day to.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

No, I love that breakdown. You, you have a team, which not a lot of chief staff do, and you built that team, if I'm

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

I did. I did. Yes. So one of the things, yeah. So when, uh, this position was offered to me, I also am, I know I don't know everything about myself, but one of the things that I do know are my strengths and my weaknesses. And I know that one of the things that this role required was managing the operational side of the department, which is not necessarily my forte. I could do it, but it's not my strength.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Yep.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

So it might take a lot more energy for me to do than it would for somebody else. So my ask at that, can I build a team around to help me make sure that like I am spending my time where it's most valuable, um, and like make sure I have people that are smarter in other areas that I'm not. We totally agree. That would be like a good way moving forward. So I immediately started, um. Looking for good talent. And that's where I found, um, two very key people that are much, much smarter than I am in their areas and bring strengths that I do not have, which I love. Um,'cause then together we can be a, a stronger team. So one, like I said, bandage is all like the operational side of things, which is again, not necessarily my strength. Um, I can help guide, I can help, um, strategize, direct and all that. But like when it comes to like all the detailed numbers, um. He's way better than I to it than I am. And then, um, this other person, she handles all like the administrative work for all of our department leaders. Um, so she really makes sure that like the things are just running smoothly. Um, which is

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

And is she like a shared resource then, or are you kind of directing. Okay, so

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah, she, well, she reports directly to me and she supports then six of us.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Okay. Okay. And did you, I mean, it sounds like you asked for this and you're self-aware. I know my strength and weaknesses. You asked for this, it was approved and then was it just like, Frank, set it up however you want, whatever you think is best, or was it like, Hey, talk to us about what you're thinking and this, this, and this.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

No, that was it. So my c my, my boss, so, and I just. Talk through. We, we decided at first that we really only needed one resource. Um, and that would be like the operational side. And then, um, some changes happened within our department. We were like, maybe we do need something also to help administrative support, but maybe not just for her. And we were thinking, how can we maybe elevate this role a little bit? So we're really thinking, all of us that report directly into her. Manage different sections of the department. How can we maybe enable them to not be spending their time where it's not best used? So then it's going back to again, like what are your strengths? Where do you need to be focusing more so that you can bring most value to your team, to the department, to Quest Global. And that's where this said, okay, we would bring in this other resource that can help us where they already carry these strengths. So allow them to also flourish and we can also flourish in other areas.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

That's a true chief of staff.'cause you did that for yourself and then you're like, let me expand this to my team, which is also part of my job. So I love that you did that. Um, speaking of different team members you work with, how do you work with the other chief of staff at the company? I.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah, so there's, there's only two chief of staff in the entire company, me and the chief of staff for the CEO. That is it. Um, so because we're only two, we are, we must stick together. So we have, um. Probably, I think it's, our scheduled cadence is only biweekly. Um, which doesn't seem like a lot, but we meet a lot more frequently than that. Um, sometimes several times throughout the week depending on what we're going, what's going on, what's happening within organization or within our own departments. Um, so we keep each other accountable of what's going on. We also like brainstorm on how we are handling with our own principle. Um, and like where. You know, it's always sometimes difficult to influence people that are above you. So it's talking about like, okay, I need support with this, but I'm having a really hard time getting their support. How are you doing it? How are you managing that challenge? She's working with the CEO. That's a whole different challenge in it by itself. So we do a lot of like brainstorm what I like to call. One of the things that I. To say about my role, I'm like the brainstorming partner, um, where someone in my department needs to just brainstorm an idea. They can always call me about anything like that. So she is my brainstorming partner. Uh, so just like figuring out how can we make the best out of what we have.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

It is so funny you started that with, um, like, course we're gonna stick together. Of course we're gonna be together. And that's not the case. I, I've, I've spoken with, like. if not hundreds, at this point of chiefs of staff who have other chiefs of staff at their company. And sometimes I'm like, oh, like, you know, how do you like, do you know each other? How do you interact? And it's like, I don't talk to them. What?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

That, that

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

how can you

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

shocks me.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

And then,

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

But maybe, maybe it is different because her and I were, I mean, she's also been with the company for quite some time. So we both have history with Quest Global. Um, I've known her. I don't even know how many years and she's had probably three or four different, like big roles in different functions, um, in my time here. So May, yeah, so maybe that is why it's made it maybe a little bit easier because there was already an established relationship and we just both kind of ended up in this role around the same time. Um, so we're both kind of like figuring this out as we go. She probably has maybe six months. And her role than I do.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Because I mean, I would think if, especially if you're the only two chiefs of staff, but I've spoken with people who have like dozens of chiefs of staff at the organization, like, wouldn't you stick together? Like that's your

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yes.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

staff cohort. Like it's lonely as chief of staff. Like, let me like talk to these people. Um, but sometimes not. But it

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Mm-hmm.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

like you have like a really good, like regular cadence and you're just kind of casual and have each other's back and all that type of thing.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

We try to, you mentioned something that I think was also really a. Key, and I kind of forgot about this, so you just, men mentioned it because it, the chief of staff role does appear to be a very lonely role. Um, and it comes across that way. Technic technically most people are like an individual contributor. Right. Um, thankfully have a team, but you are really kind of like on your own little island. Um, which was really concerning to me taking on the role. And I think it's concerning to a lot of people that have this role. It's like, how do you, how do you manage that being on your own?

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Hmm.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

because we're so used to working with other people, having teams collaborating on multiple projects that will require other people. And in this you really are a lot running solo in a lot of things. Um, so I, I did not want that to be my story. Uh, so I've made sure to be involved in things that maybe I didn't need to be involved. Or maybe didn't, neither them or I saw that I could bring value until I got involved. Um, and I'm very much involved in almost anything that's happening within the department. I know exactly what's happening or what everybody is doing. Um, but I also view that as part of my role too, that I should, should know if any case my principal is not able to attend something. Everybody deserves vacation, right? So she's out doing her own thing, whatever it may be that someone can step in and support. And I view the chief of staff as like the right hand person to whomever that principal is to come in and like be able to continue business as usual.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Yeah. Just outta curiosity, I mean, you were at the company for 11 years in various roles. Was it, was it weird for people when you moved into the chief of staff role or was it pretty like natural, like, oh, Frank's like taking on this and that makes sense? Like he's be really good at that, or what was that like?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Oh, good question. Um, do you know, that was kind like a fear of mine, how the team would perceive it, because. Um, well, really any change that I've made, I've always felt like, always was concerned about people perceiving this new role of mine and any change I had, because I'm not an engineer, I didn't come from sales, I don't anything that Quest Global does, that's not my background. So I was all like, everything I do, I feel like I'm an imposter in some way, shape, or form. Um, I've learned to not. Like believe that's true, but at some point it's just natural that that's like your feeling. Um, thankfully my department was really accepting of me taking on this role to many people. It just seemed very natural. It seemed like, oh yeah, that makes sense that Frank is taking this over. Um. And then I did not know that until,'cause most of my team is in India. I would say like 99% of the people are in India. So it wasn't until my first trip that I went to India as the chief of staff, um, that I got to see firsthand that, like, for people, it just was like, eh, it, it made sense that you took on this role. Good for you.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Very

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Now, people outside of our department, it was, uh, uh, I guess it was more just like explaining that like I. Why I wanna take it. And I think it's all because of this understanding of what is the chief of staff role, when maybe they view me as bringing value, doing my previous role as leading internal communications and helping them in that way. And then they have this understanding of I'm now just like this glorified admin. So to them it was like, why would he take a step back?

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Oh, interesting.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

I had to like explain like, oh no, this is like, this is not that. Like this role is very, very different. It's much more elevated. I can bring value in a whole new way to the company. Um,'cause I view this role, and I think I've already probably mentioned it a few times, is this. Role is very critical. It's critical to the principal, it's critical to the department. Critical to the organization. I mean, there's only two of us. Like it is, to me, it's a very important role. Um, so yeah, I just have to like, enlighten people what the role is about, um, to know that like

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

It's

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

are like.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

I had a, a previous guest who took on the chief of staff role and then people reached out to her like, are you retiring? Like what are you doing? It's like, chief of staff, are you stepping back? And I'm like, oh my goodness. No, you're like taking on two to three times more work than you

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

But it's

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Um,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

perception. Yeah.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yes. it's, uh, it can be a lot. I guess it all depends on the principal too, right? Like on how they want it and how they want to like do the role. Um,'cause I have seen another organizations chief of staff where it is a very tactical. What it appears to be a very tactical role. Go do this. Go. I need 10 of these. I need you to handle these meetings. I need you to, it's very much like you can check everything off the list every day. Um, which that's fine if that, if that works for them, go for it. That's not something I wanted to do and I think that's the understanding of a lot of people. I want it to be something that is, brings a lot of different value, which then to your point, it just allies a lot more work.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Yeah, totally. Just outta curiosity, what is your interaction like with the CEO, if at all? Is it mostly through the chief of staff or like was the CEO, like in your interview loop when you were applying for chief of staff? Like do you interact with them sometimes, but not often. How does that work? I.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Um, I met the, the CEO early in my career, um, with Quest Global. It was in my first trip to India. Um, so this would've been in 2014. Um. When I met him, and I'm glad I met him because I. Have a very different perspective of what Quest Global stood for and like, what is the, what are we trying to accomplish here? And like hear about his story and why he started Quest Global and how he started it. And it was very, it's this, the story of like, um, of just perseverance and wanting to do something that ultimately benefits society. Um, so I, it's something I could connect with. I share that because I've maintained a relationship with them throughout my career at Quest Global. Um, my previous role, I, I handled the, like our senior team meeting. Basically is, is what it was called back then and it was everybody that had like a leadership position across organization. I helped manage that from content to organizing. Who's gonna speak in this and what is, what is the message that we wanna share? All that. So he had a very pivotal role in that.'cause he would share like the leadership address for example. So I would maintain com communication with him and once I took on this role. Um, surprisingly, I don't talk to him as often as I used to because I, I'm not handling this meeting anymore, so I don't have like an a, an actual reason to talk to him. Um, but every once in a while I would, when, when I see him, either through travels or if it's something that we're working on together, we do interact. Mm-hmm.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Alright. if um, if someone could take you back in a time machine before

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

of staff role and sit you down and be like, look, here's what's really gonna happen when you get into the chief of staff role, what would you have liked to have known at that time?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Huh, man. Um, okay. I think for this one, it's not much of what, what I wish I. They would've sat me down and told me, maybe it's because I had a, I had a lot of open dialogue with my principal and the chief of staff that had of prior to me on like what it looked like then what he did, et cetera in. As well as several other executives with Inquest Global who've become like mentors of mine and asking them like, Hey, this position came up to me. What do you see? So I had a lot of conversations. So I think I was very much aware what. The role would look like and kind of what to expect, but what I wish I would've been reminded of early on when I took the role is that this role is something that can bring a lot of value. If you want it. And I think often I came in because of my understanding of the role being like a glorified admin. I think it played a big part early on where I took a backseat in a lot of things and I had to relearn or like remind myself often that um, this is not a backseat position, this is a driver position. So I need to move up and like be confident in myself and like voice off my point of view. Now I, that's not an issue today, but it definitely was like in my first two months of just reminding myself that it's, it's not what I think it, it is, it's something bigger and better. Um, and I just, I wish I would've reminded myself a lot more early on.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

I love that it's not a backseat position, it's a driver position.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Mm-hmm.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

get ready to drive and go fast. I

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yes.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

I love that. As we round out here, what advice would you give to principals who are either thinking of bringing on a chief of staff or have one and wanna kind of hear from a chief of staff how to, how to utilize that role?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Oh, I, I love this question. So if they don't have a chief of staff, why not would be my first question. Um, I think you're losing, you're losing a huge opportunity to have a brainstorming partner, um, if you want that to be. I think, um, I think the first thing it would be to ask what is to you, a chief of staff? And define that to, to yourself. And then based on your definition, do you need it or not? I would argue that you probably do, um, because it could be like your secret sauce is success. Um,'cause if you have, if it works well, you have a partner, you have someone that you can help, you strategize things. You have your right hand person, um, you have someone yeah. That you can like. Provide you, um, guidance as well as to like things that you don't see about yourself, perception about others, things that people don't want to tell you because they're afraid of how you, how you would perceive it. So you, so you have someone that can give you insight into things. Um, yeah, there's a lot of benefits that are maybe just not mentioned in it by itself in a job description, but I think it all comes to what is the chief of staff for you? And then based on that definition, do you need it or not? I would argue that you do.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

I love that. And I also think it, it ties back to something you said throughout this conversation, which is like, know yourself. Know your strengths and weaknesses,

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

everyone does. So like it's not a

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

weaknesses. Human,

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

yeah,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

then find someone who has a complimentary skillset because that can really, you know, two plus two equals five type of situation. And that's, that's what

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

yeah,

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

of staff can do.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

yeah, Totally.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Love that. Frank, anything else that you would wanna get out to chiefs of staff, to principals, to people who are like, what is this role, just in general? Um, any, any other words of wisdom?

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Oh, wisdom. Um. That's funny. Um, I don't consider myself very wise, but I guess in some ways I have some knowledge here and there. I think, um, I think I'll go back to like the thing that I wish I was reminded of.'cause I think it's something that I constantly remind myself as well in anything, especially when you have like those nervous moments or like those complicated meetings, the situations that you maybe don't want to be a part of, but you know that you should because of where you're at. It's just reminding yourself that you are a driver. Um. As a chief of staff, staff and as a principal that would have a chief of staff. Let that person be a driver. Let that person drive. Um, it's okay to like take a back seat and see how the person like comes and flourishes.'cause obviously you have them for a reason and they have strengths that you maybe don't possess, um, as you were just sharing just a second ago. So if everybody is able to. I think it's great when you have like a really strong partnership, right? Like in, in all of our, like our, um, sitcoms and, um, superheroes, you have like this duo, right? So it's because it works. It's not just because it, like you need somebody this and that is because it actually works. So, um, let your chief of staff be your duo. Um, and it'll be crazy what you can do together.

emily-sander_1_05-30-2025_110325:

Beautiful. We'll leave it at that. Frank. Thank you so much. Truly appreciate it.

frank--he-him-_1_05-30-2025_140324:

Of course. Thank you. It's great to share.