Leveraging Leadership

How to Secure a Seat at the Boardroom Table: Gaining the Right Skills for Board Service

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 225

Share episode

Dr. Keith Dorsey talks about his book, "The Boardroom Journey: Practical Guidance for Women to Secure a Seat at the Table," explaining what corporate boards do, why diversity matters, and how anyone - no matter their career stage - can start planning for a board role. He shares actionable advice on building skills across different business areas, networking intentionally (even mentioning how a janitor helped someone land a board seat), and how to confidently position yourself for board opportunities. The episode includes practical steps for mid-career professionals and breaks down the importance of "human capital" and diversity of thought on boards.


Links Mentioned:


Free Resources:

 

Get in Touch With Emily:

 

Who Am I?

If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

 

Time Stamps:

00:34 Introducing the Book: The Boardroom Journey
02:11 Understanding the Role of a Board
03:22 Key Responsibilities of Board Members
05:54 Human Capital and Board Qualifications
07:28 Personal Reflections and Career Stories
09:11 Evolving Board Diversity
13:44 Challenges and Progress in Board Diversity
17:29 Intentional Career Planning for Board Roles
31:25 Networking and Social Capital
36:04 Practical Steps to Secure a Board Seat
39:06 Conclusion and Contact Information

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Dr. Keith Dorsey, how are you sir?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

I am doing great, Emily. It's great to see you.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

It's so good to see you as well. Thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Thank you.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

So for the listeners, Dr. Keith was kind enough to send me an advanced copy of his manuscript, and I have, I printed it all out right here, um, every page of it, which, which was amazing. And it's called the Boardroom Journey, practical Guidance for Women to Secure a seat at the Table. And I try to read the books of my guests before they get on. Um, yours was excellent, so thank you

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Thank you.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

it. I really appreciate it. I read every word and I was just soaking it up and I don't tell everyone that. So, um, if I, if I didn't find, uh, find, you know, greatness in the book I'll usually say I read your book, but yours is truly, is truly excellent and I know a lot of work goes into it. I know this was your dissertation that you then transformed into, uh, a book for, for regular people like me. So I, I appreciate all that went into it. The book is, follows four women. Who are at different stages of their career and one of, and how they got into board seats. And one of the things that I love about it is, um, the book talks about it's not too early to start your board journey.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

yes,

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

people might think it's one day in the future and you know, that's something that you do after you retire or things like this. And it's not. And you point this out in your book, one quote I want to, I wanna kick off, kick us off here with is it will never be the right time to start your board journey and it will always be the right time to start. Um, um, so just to kick us off, can you give folks context? We're like, I've kind of heard of a board, I know we have a board of directors, but I'm not quite sure what that is or how it came to be or what the function of a board is.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

You know, Emily, I jokingly tell people all the time that in my thirties I couldn't even spell board and I wish. Someone would've sat me down and really talked about what a board does and, and why you are going to want to orchestrate your career to, you know, ultimately at some point end up on a private or a public corporate board. And that was really what this book was all about. Was to make certain that people, and we focused more on women throughout this book, truly understand what a board's about, what it does, and how you can orchestrate your career to best position yourself for that ultimate goal. And I, I challenge people to, to actually set a goal. Reverse engineer that goal and then execute on it. And by doing it that way, you actually will get there. a, you know, a corporate board is. Is about three. Being a corporate board member is about doing three things basically. Um, when you're on it is about having fiduciary responsibility and, and you're fiduciary, fiduciary responsible for. Uh, the shareholders and to protect the shareholders' money. And then to take it one step further, all the stakeholders and, uh, pri the primary functions of a board member are three. One is management. That's the hiring and the firing of the CEO. And, and some of the other management team members, uh, as well, mostly the CEO, but then also the compensation of the CEO and some of the other executives, um, responsible for. S overseeing and getting involved in the strategy of the business. And so under that management category, which is one of the three that I want to talk about, it's, you know, those are the type of things that are covered under that category. The second one is more advisory or service. when you're thinking about the advisory side is bringing your human capital experience to the table and, and being able. ask thought provoking questions to help. The management team, uh, see things that maybe are around the corner that they are not familiar with. Um, bring your expertise to the table to give advice and to be that heir sounding board for the CEO at times. All of that falls under that second category of advisory. Or service. And then the third category is the one we often hear about, which is oversight and governance. Um, you know, with your fiduciary hat on, it's your responsibility to make certain that the management team is focused on doing the things that are right for the business and not to just satisfy their own personal interests and needs. And so. Those are the three main areas that a board member or independent director or a non-executive director would actually focus on.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

And we've certainly seen the third one go wrong when we see news stories about, oh, there was no oversight on that one.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

That's great. Unfortunately.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

And you mentioned, uh, interesting term in the second one. What is human capital?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Human capital is one of the five capitals that I talk about within the book where it really focuses on your experience, your expertise, your education that you've accumulated or throughout, throughout the years, over the years.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Very cool. And I mean, um, a lot of people, I should say, when, when I first thought about boards, I was like, I don't know if I'm qualified. I don't know if I am, uh, smart enough or have enough experience or have the right kind of experience. And you kind of dispel that in your book. And one of the things, one of the ways you do that is talking about you bring the human capital. You just inherently in you, you have a lot in you. There are certain things that you need to. Work on and maybe plus up your knowledge in, in these different areas, but you bring a lot to the table, um, that you might not even know about. And so I like that, that human capital part of the book,

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Absolutely, and I challenge people to spend time. To reflect. Reflect on your experiences, reflect on what brings you joy, reflect on your successes. Um, oftentimes we just say, yeah, we were successful, we were

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

I.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

or we were this. But to truly peel it back and figure out when I'm successful, am I successful, I. And what are the themes so that when you reflect, you can replicate, you can, uh,

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Hmm.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

you can do more of that intentionally in the future. So I challenge people to reflect on their human capital.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

And one of the people in your book was early in their career, I think they were right out of college and they were having a conversation with their uncle, and it so mirrored my own experience. And so my own experience was I was in a car with my mom and dad and they were in business. They were very successful. Business people in their own right. And, and I was very curious about, my mom was in marketing. My dad was over here, he was a vp. Um, you know, like what did they do? Who did, who do you, who's your boss? Like, who's the boss of you? And then who's their boss? Um, and it always ended with the CEO. And I was like, okay, the CEO is like the top person. Got it. And then they offhandedly mentioned, oh, but the board did this, this, this, and the CEO had to do that, that, that. And I was like, wait a minute. The CEO has a boss, like who are these board people? So it was, it kind of blew my, uh, you know, 10-year-old brain at the, at the time of, oh, there's a board. And so, um, there is someone that the CEO has to report to and has to account to. Uh, and, and the individual in your book was.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

for a CEO, it can be lonely at the top, and to have that board there that they trust could be, you know, a great benefit.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

For sure and you know, when I was chief of staff and my part of my job is to, is to be that confidant for the CEO and to have someone. Right next to him in, in my case. But also we had some fantastic independent directors on our board who would come on site who would very friendly, not intimidating. They were there to help. They were from the industry and they really helped us put, um, we were going through Covid, so we were having to change our business plans and kind of how we were approaching things, but we had some fantastic independent board members. Can you explain some of the roles on the board for people who might not be aware?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Yeah, for oftentimes, for many, many, many years, the board members were former or active CEOs or CFOs, and. And that was just the pool of people that the CEO or the board would continue to pull from. and it worked it didn't and, and what they began to uncover, especially when you have a board with CEOs, uh, that may have retired 10, 15, 20 years ago. The business climate is dynamic. It continues to change, and, and having a board filled with historians, I would call them, they, you know, although the prerequisite was that they were successful, I. Things continue to change so much, and if they didn't keep up with it, the board could actually become antiquated and won't be in the best position to mitigate their risk. Over the past 10 years or so, uh, boards have been. Challenging themselves in the nomination and governance committees have been challenging themselves to really analyze the skill sets of the existing board members today, and then take it one step further. Those that are elite boards will actually analyze the each and every board member's competencies and what they bring to the table. And when you begin to look at the skill sets and competencies and you compare it to. And, and measure it up against the strategy of the company for the next three to five years. Then and only then can they begin to uncover where they have a redundancy of skill sets on their board. And I. And a, I'm going to say gaps when it comes to skill sets and competencies as they relate to what's needed to properly do those three functions of management, service, and oversight towards their goals of, uh, you know, reaching their objectives from a strategy perspective. And when they begin to look at things like that, they begin to bring in people with different functional skill sets around. Supply chain around talent, around risk management, around cybersecurity, around, um, you know, various components. And so they boards now are starting to reach at not only the, at the many different types of C-suite roles, but also the people that report to the C-suite. And, and that's when. We started to experience a growth and some measurement and boardroom diversity because when you are only recruiting CEOs and CFOs, there were typically more. Men in those positions than uh, women. But when you began to look at the c the many different types of CXOs and their direct reports, the pool of incredibly talented people, um, moved from here to here and, and that's how boards are looking today because they're moving away from just the former and active CEOs and, um. And that's, that's something positive that I'm seeing in the marketplace today.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

So it started with CEOs and CFOs

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Yes.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

and the pool was, was this big, was small. And now you said elite boards are broadening their pool and saying, okay, let's take a look at these other folks. And that's bringing in new people. It's funny, as you were mentioning, putting together a complimentary skillset of your board. It reminded me very much of being chief of staff and putting together. A complimentary skill set on your C-suite, because that's the chief of Staff's job. It seems like that's happening or hopefully happening. Um, the next, the next level up one I'll, I'll, I'll read off one more quote from your book here. It was a, it was a study you cited and it said, women of all racial and ethnic backgrounds held 30.4% of seats of board seats across Fortune 500 companies. This is in 2022. Uh. But women of from underrepresented, racial and ethnic groups occupied only 7.8% of board seats. I knew that number was gonna be low. I didn't know it was gonna be that low.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Yeah, it, it, it is shocking and some people think that status so low because of malicious behavior and, you know, there are, there are bad people doing bad things and good people to do

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

I.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

things from time to time. But what I've uncovered from research, it really doesn't stem from that. Can it? Yes. But it really doesn't. Um, it comes from similarity theory. You know, people, if the board is filled with, uh, and, and with some of the Fortune 500 and s and p 500 boards, you know, just 10 years ago, of the board members were white men. I. And, and so if the, if the white men are sitting at a board table asking who do you know, um, for, so that we could fill our next board position, they would look to the left, look to the right, and they would think about the people that would know, and even when they were challenging themselves to bring on a woman director. Well, the people that were most closely related to their network may have been white women. And so that's why white women had a larger percentage at that particular point. And, and then when you think about women of color, you had to inter intersectionality of being a woman plus of color. Uh, oftentimes, um, men of color would get the role. If they were seeking someone of color before a woman of color, but then in 2020, I. Um, things began to change and women of color were growing and getting more board seats because it was meeting some of the social demands at that particular point. They were meeting some of the social demands and so things started to change. So that number since 2022 has gone up the percentage of, uh, women of color on corporate boards, but it's something that will just continue to evolve and, uh, a good. consultant would challenge boards to think outside the box. And a good search professional would teach boards to fish from different fishing holes because our fishing hole might be the one we know where we have a social capital and our networks. But a good consultant or search professional will say, there are incredible fishing holes here, here, and here, and you'll. You'll meet many different types of extremely well qualified people and

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Where do you come? Yes, thank you. Where do you come down on I'm interested in this because, um, I have been part of teams and organizations where. Uh, where I am, like the only, or the first in a group. And then I've also been part of teams and different organizations who, who you mentioned social demands, who are trying to meet a quota, who are trying to meet a diversity stat

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Yes,

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

um, and. The last thing that I want is to be part of a team just to check a box.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

yes.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

smart, I'm talented, I have creative ideas. I can bring things together in a unique way, and I wanna be. I wanna be assessed on that merit.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Yes,

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

if that's not good enough for a certain team or if that experience isn't re relevant enough, um, that's one thing. Or if I'm just not a good fit with that particular culture, that's fine.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

yes.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

But I'm wondering kind of where you see, like on the ends of the spectrum. Um, I mentioned the ends of the spectrum there. There's a lot of middle ground, but kind of where do you see that push and pull coming through?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

It's a great question Emily, and I'll answer two ways and hopefully I'll, I'll remember everything that I would like to share, uh, when I am coaching executives who are aspiring board members. Or board members who are seeking their second or third board when I'm coaching them and they share with me that they were selected to interview for a board role because they fit a certain demographic, asked them to have the intestinal fortitude during the interviewing process to ask someone, why did you choose me? Why were you interested in meeting with me? I said, you know, just by asking that question, it fors them the opportunity to give you the answers to the test. So you know, what was it about your human capital or your social capital or director capital or whatever that made them want to see you beyond whatever demographic uh, they were also seeking. And if you don't like their answer, I. To have the intestinal fortitude to say this isn't a good fit for me.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Um, um, not many people are willing to do that, but I really do challenge people to do that. Now, going back to, um, the spectrum, I. Uh, today we're dealing with a, you know, uh, really a anti DEI sort of environment and you're finding more and more board or, uh, companies that are saying, uh, uh, at least publicly saying that they are no longer supporting diversity. And I find that those that are vocal in that area. Are oftentimes those that were just checking the box

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Mm.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

and, and they, in 2020, from 2020 to 2023 didn't wanna be seen as the company that wasn't concerned. About

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Right.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

social justice, uh, areas and the moral imperative around diversity, equity, and inclusion. And so because they were just checking a box, they may have been recruiting someone from, uh, for. Token reasons and, and so that's, you know, how I look at that small group. you have completely on the other side of the spectrum, you have those organizations that are shouting today from the rooftops, that diversity. Has been incredible for our organization and, and our, from an employee standpoint, from a C-suite standpoint and from a board standpoint. And I could show you documented proof and as to the business imperative of having a diversity of thought on our board and in our organization. So you have the spectrum that we're just checking the box and now they are publicly saying. We're no longer supporting that. And then you have on the other end, those people that are shouting from the rooftop that we stand behind this and we have documented and empirical evidence that this works. Then you have the larger group in the middle, and that larger group I would call are the companies that are green hushing. Okay. They've always believed in it. They have documented proof. They had it in their eight K, their 10 K, their websites, their investor relationship section of, of their website. Um, and they were shouting from the rooftop at one point, but now they've. Change the language. They are no longer talking about it, but nothing has changed within their organization because they believe in it. And so that term is called green hushing. So when you take the large percentage of the companies that are green hushing and not. the media and then the percentage that are shouting from the rooftop. You have a very large percentage of companies that still want to recruit the best talent out there from Amer perspective, but fish from, but from different. Fishing holes because of the cognitive diversity that they bring to an organization. And in my book I write about optimal diversity. And optimal diversity is the combination of, uh, observable slash demographic diversity plus diversity of thought. And the two together when you're intentional about both is optimal diversity and every human being fits that category. human being. If you reflect on your cultural capital, your director, capital, human capital, all these capitals, well then you could truly differentiate yourself regardless of your ethnicity, age, gender. so, uh, it's those individuals that were checking the box that we as aspiring board members have to be careful that we aren't a token hire and have the intestinal fortitude to say. This is not for me right now,

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

I wanna highlight something you said, which is in the news, we tend to see the extremes of the spectrum, whereas the majority of companies are, are doing it and they're looking for diversity of thought. They just might not be in the news'cause it's not newsworthy or it's not the, you know, the flashy thing

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

they're

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

to talk about.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

advertising it any longer, and that's

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

but they haven't changed their values.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Yeah, and I think the, the term diversity of thought caught my ear because I worked for, so, um, I always like to tell this story. So I've worked for, uh, a boss twice and I was the chief of staff to the CEO and I worked for him two times at two different companies. And both times he had a C-suite that was. That had representation from all genders and from all races and backgrounds, education backgrounds. That was a big one. Oh, you're not pedigreed enough to be on our csuite. He was like, I don't care. I don't care if you pass first grade. If you can get the job done, then you're gonna be on my team. And, and he. Lit. He never talked about race or gender. He just brought on the best people.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Yes.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

was just understood that in the recruiting process, which I was in, the interview loops on both of these.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Mm-hmm.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

I, I want the best people, bring me the best talent to help this company be successful. And he, and he was, he is, I'm just gonna say it, he won't mind me saying this, an old, white, straight man. And he was building these amazing teams and he, he could give two hoots about, you know, who was like, green, purple, polka, dot, whatever. He really didn't care. And he had the best teams, and those were two of the best teams that I enjoyed working on. It was, we challenged each other, we encouraged each other. It was just a good dynamic team. And he, um, and he put those teams together and it was understood. It wasn't shouted from the rooftops, it was just simply understood that's what we were gonna do.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Throughout the world, there are millions of people that fit the description you just shared right there where their heart is in the right place and they're really focused around the business imperative. I want to do whatever I can to surround myself with the most incredible people to do incredible things in this world, and that's what this is really. All about, unfortunately, you know, via or, uh, certain organizations certain media outlets and, uh, have confused, the confused to make you think that it can't, it can only, it could be about diversity or it could be about merit never should the two marry. And that

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

False choice.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

that is so wrong is it's, you know, um. Diversity and meritocracy do coexist, and the prerequisite should always be about bringing in the very best in meritocracy, always. table stakes.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

And if someone's listening and is like, look, I'm, let's say early stage, middle, mid career, like I still got 10, 15 years left, um, to do it. You know, should I, should I really be starting to think about boards now? Um, I didn't know I could do that. Now that I've heard Dr. Keith speak about this, like, okay, now my ears are perked up. Uh, what, what do I do with that? You know, how do I set that goal to reverse engineer into what types of things should, should that person be, uh, doing reading, meeting people? What types of things should they be doing mid, mid stage in their career?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

You know, mid stage, early stage, late stage is never, never too early to get started. In fact, the earlier the better. And you mentioned in the book, you know, I, I. I interviewed hundreds of women that, uh, from the government and came from corporations and went throughout, you know, orchestrated their career to get to executive level and then eventually to a board level and some. Were very intentional. They knew as a teenager, that's something we wanted do because of family members or sponsors or mentors, people they looked up to and others didn't figure it out until after they retired. That's a more difficult way, but it varied and so. And coming up with the four individuals, I took hundreds of stories from individuals and have successfully navigated that path and then, uh, looked at what they did. And the question I will always ask at the end of a qualitative, uh, qualitative interview, if you can go back and tell your younger self something, what advice would you give? And lot of what they shared with me where they had similar themes I put into those four FIC characters. And so the four protagonists are a, you know, a 25-year-old, brand new manager in a company, a 40-year-old, brand new senior manager within the organization, a 55-year-old executive who says she's going to retire in the next three to five years and a 62-year-old. See. EO of a family business, second generation family business, who's going to turn the business over to their much younger brother. four women said at those points that they would like to serve on a private or a public board. So what should they be doing at those stages of their careers? And so someone that's early stage to mid stage, they may be on a singular track they just keep getting promoted. But it's all within this, this vertical track. And could they get on a board down the road if they made it through to a executive role there? Yeah, that describes me. Um, I've been in, I was in sales my whole 30 years in corporate America, I was able to develop the skill sets to a point, uh, where I was able to transition onto boards, but as. It's not the best way. And those women that were very intentional throughout their career or they accidentally got there, uh, they, um, were able to get positions outside of this track. And so if that track was. Just a legal track. Some of them, uh, you know, after becoming general counsel or right before that, maybe moved into a operations role or moved into a sales, uh, leadership sort of role and different things like that. But to be able to go slightly outside your track and develop new skill sets that are germane to boards and, and when you're able to do that, you become. Way more attractive to a board because boards may be seeking today, as I mentioned before, Emily, functional experience, but they don't want one trick ponies that will only speak up when we talk about cybersecurity. want someone that can go deep in cybersecurity, but a inch deep in a mile wide, with a strong business acumen in many other areas. And the term that we often hear used for that is. Boards are looking for corporate athletes. You know, people that can participate in many parts of the conversation. Chief of Staffs. Are excellent at going an inch deep in a mile y and asking thought provoking questions, challenging their, um, direct manager, whether that's the CEO or some other CXO. Uh, they are excellent at that. The boards are interested in people that can go a inch deep, a mile wide, and are true corporate athletes and someone that mid-career can orchestrate their career. Where they can develop more skill sets that are important to boards are going to be more attractive down the road. And that's the sort of advice I give, in the book so that people can be more intentional throughout their career.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

I love the phrase corporate athlete. I'm now like, that's embedded in me. So love that. And I like the getting a broad range of experience. And for people listening, Keith was making this kind of back and forth slaloming motion with his hand, like a skier. So go collect that broad experience'cause it will help you in your, in your, uh, board journey. Um. Also in your book throughout. Throughout your book, you talk about connections and relationships and networking, but boards hire people they know and they want to advocate for people they trust and know and will make them look good when they refer someone in, but also be capable and competent in that seat. So I think another thing that people can be doing. Is going out and meeting different people and going out and having the, the dinners or going to that networking event, um, just to meet people. And you never know, right? Who is gonna open a door or, you know, six months later, six years later, who's gonna be like, Hey, I remember that person. Or, oh, I remember you, you reached out again. Okay. So can you just talk a little bit about, uh, being intentional about building those relationships?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

From a social capital standpoint, that was one of the things as a search professional and also a research around a researcher around this that shocked me the most, how people. Found their boards and there are studies that say, you know, somewhere between 67 and 75% of the board seats that are filled are filled by via your network, only a small percent percentage come from search professionals. Um, but the bulk comes from your networks. And so one of the adv advice, one of the things that I share with aspiring board members or people seeking their second, third, or fourth board is to tell anyone and everyone that you are interested in the board seat. I mean, anyone, and a lot of people think, you know when you're seeking a board because the board is up here and then you have your C-suite and executives and so on and so forth, senior managers I'm only going to tell the elite that I'm interested in the board seat and then no. That's not how it works. You'd be surprised how people find their boards. Um, you know, in, in the many qualitative interviews, both formally and informally that I've conducted, they people will share with me that they found their board, their babysitter share something with them, or, or, or let someone know that the person they sit for is, is a strong board member, uh, the dog walker. dog walker. a example that I often give is a janitor within a organization where that, that night janitor would see this woman at least two days a week, sitting at her desk at seven, eight o'clock in the evening, and the place is empty. And finally one day he asked her, he, he said, I noticed you're here late. What do you do? she shared her story in, in such a way that enabled the, the janitor to hear what she really was all about. And so I'll, I'll pause for a second to share one other bit. I challenge people to take their. Autopilot description of themselves that they give they're at a cocktail party or someone asks you, uh, on sitting next to you on a plane, what do you do? We go on a, this autopilot 23 to 32nd sort of description, and we often tell people what our vocation is in those 23 to 30 seconds. I challenge people to add another seven to 11 more seconds to that and go on autopilot, tell them that, and then say, and I serve on two nonprofit boards and I'm looking for a private board in this area so I can pay things forward. Just by doing that, like the executive did. When a janitor asked what she did, she shared that I also serve on X number of private boards and or, or I'm sorry, I'm not. Nonprofit boards, and I'm looking for a private board in this area. Two weeks later, the janitor is at his sister's dinner party. Sister talking to several people and saying, I'm having the hardest time filling this board seat.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

You go.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

And, and the janitor says, tell me more about it. Oh, you gotta meet this woman from my office that I clean and. That was it. She got on the board. This happens all the time. So by adding the additional seven to 11 seconds to your, your autopilot speech of what you do and who you are, it will let anyone and everyone know that you're interested in the board. See, lastly, something else that came from a study that completely blew my mind, Emily, regarding this, is that, um, we grew up learning. It's not what you know, it's who you know. And that makes sense. Okay. That's, you know, how you end up getting the job and different things like that. And what I've uncovered from one of the studies was that it's not what you know, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. Because

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Ah.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

in this world, there's no longer six degrees of separation. When a search professional is looking for a board member, or the nomination and governance committee from the board is looking for a board member, um, we often ask, who do you know? And people will start to share names. And then we ve people that they said. And when we vet, um, we're, we're getting information as to who a, what you have to say about that individual in this case. Um, in this pre, pre-vetting, we learn so much about the individuals. So I share with aspiring board members. If you were sitting on a panel and you look out in the audience and you see 30 people in the audience that you know, there are a thousand people in the audience, by the time you're done with that hour long panel, 970 more people know you. That you do not know. And because they heard you on the panel, they liked the points you were making, they liked the way you think. When they are asked, uh, who do you know that could be great for this board, they may think of you and you never set eyes on it. So it's not what you know. not who you know, it's who knows you. And do they have favorable things to say about you? Now if they don't have favorable things to say about you, and, uh, the nominations and governance committee, uh, begins to do their research and they can just look on LinkedIn and see who they know that you knows you. And if they don't have favorable things, you'll never hear from, you'll never even know that you were up for that board position. But if they do have favorable things, search professionals and non-gov committee members are going to reach out to you. So I also share with people, let anyone and everyone know that you're interested. And if you've burnt some bridges in the past, like a 12 step program, I challenge you to go back and mend those relationships to the best of your ability because you don't know when people like me in either one of my roles as a nom nominations and governance committee member or a search professional, I, I operate in. You never know what I wanna call them, and you want them to say about you.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Yes, it's Who Knows You. I love that piece of advice. I wish I could talk to you for longer, but, uh, we'll wind down here. But for people listening, the book is The Boardroom Journey. Practical Guidance for Women to Secure a Seat at the Table. If you don't know what a board is, you know a little bit more now, but certainly read the book and it takes you through that. It also takes you through the different types of boards. So private public companies, different company sizes, have very different board makeups, uh, subcommittees and all those different things you might hear about, um, directors, managing directors, executives, all these different roles. And then what I love about your book, you listeners know I like practical and tactical action steps, and you have charts and rubrics and plans. And so you can literally narrow down if you're like, I'm at the point where. I don't just wanna learn about boards, I wanna start moving in that direction with some specific action steps. Keith's book has all of this outlined down to identifying three target. Boards and companies with the profile that you want, and then coming up with your messaging and outreach to those individuals and marrying up like, do I have a complimentary skillset? And going through that assessment. And then like you mentioned, the seven to 11 seconds you wanna add to your introduction and talk track. And for those of you who are like. I'm not on a board. I can't say I'm on a nonprofit board. He has a version. There's a version in there that says, you know, I'm looking, I'm looking to go into my next chapter and for ways to give back, and I'm looking for X, Y, and Z types of board. But being very specific with that description and ask. So all of that good stuff is in there. Will certainly have a link to that book in the show notes. But Keith, thank you so much for joining. If people. Want to reach out to you or know more about who you, uh, who you help and what you do for them. Where is the best place to go for that?

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

They can find me on my website that's boardroom journey.com. Boardroom journey.com. And there you can see the types of consulting that we do there as well as individual coaching and accountability partnering and different things like that. And you can also find me under Dr. Keith D. Dorsey on LinkedIn.

emily-sander_1_04-16-2025_080713:

Beautiful. We'll have all those in the show notes as well. Dr. Keith, thank you so much.

squadcaster-7g7i_1_04-16-2025_080712:

Thank you, Emily. This has been great.