Leveraging Leadership

How Nonprofits Can Scale with Better Fundraising Processes

• Jessa Estenzo • Season 1 • Episode 237

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James Misner talks about why only a small percentage of nonprofits break $1 million in revenue and explains that many struggle because they don’t know how to fundraise effectively or are fearful of dealing with money. He shares practical advice for Chiefs of Staff, stressing the importance of having clear fundraising processes, following up with donors, and building a strong team with paid major gift officers. James also discusses the impact of personal connections, handwritten thank-you notes, and branded monthly giving programs.

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Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want. 

Time Stamps:
00:54 James Misner's Journey into Fundraising
03:12 Overcoming Fear of Money in Fundraising
05:53 Creating Effective Fundraising Processes
08:30 Building Donor Relationships
12:42 The Importance of Follow-Up
17:05 The Importance of Donor Retention
18:44 Supporting Your CEO in Fundraising
21:45 Effective Fundraising Metrics
27:19 Building a Monthly Giving Program
29:16 Seasonality and Major Donors
31:13 Advice for Chiefs of Staff
32:46 Encouraging Personal Donations

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

My guest today is James Meisner and he's, he's here to talk about fundraising for nonprofits. James, welcome to the show.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. Excited to dive into this conversation today.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Likewise. Likewise. It's a great topic. So you have said that only 2% of nonprofits break 1 million in revenue and only 0.4% reach 10 million, and you're on a quest to change that. So can you give us a little backdrop of how you got into this and why you're on a quest to change that?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Oh my goodness. Like every idealistic 18-year-old, I went to college thinking I wanted to, like, I went to college in Washington DC thinking I wanted to change the world. I got there and realized I hated politics and government, uh, but still wanted to change the world. Got into, um. The African development space, this is many decades ago, and quickly realized my biggest and best contribution was the resource guy. Hey, we need more funding to do this program.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yep.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

and I realized didn't matter how smart I was, people from communities were always smarter, uh, and knew more than I did. Uh, and you know what, if I could be the resource guy, great. It's my contribution, uh, to add. So been doing it for 25 plus years now.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Amazing. And so, I mean, this question might sound trite, but like why are the numbers the way they are? Why are only 2% of nonprofits not breaking 1 million? Is that, uh, I'm sure that's a loaded question, but can you give us like just a few reasons why that's not happening? I.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yeah. So I'll give you the most basic reason and the most basic reason is that many nonprofits don't know how to deal with money. They don't know how money works, and many, many, many are afraid of it. Okay? Um, now that doesn't mean they're not a good nonprofit because your size of the size of your budget does not determine the impact. you're having the size of your budget determines whether you know how to fundraise or not. So some of the most impactful nonprofits I've ever worked with are, are very small and midsize under the$10 million mark. Um, the only thing they don't know how to do, Emily, is fundraise vice versa. There are huge organizations that have really crummy programming. Uh, out there, but have amazing fundraising. Um, ideally you can do both, and that's what I'm trying to do. Uh, get the best, most innovative, most proficient nonprofits to be able to scale, uh, their impact, to change some of the world's most intractable problems. I.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

And we have a lot of chiefs of staff listening to this show who are chiefs of staff at nonprofit organizations or not-for-profit organizations. And so, I mean, a lot of them are. Point blank task with fundraising, or at least they're supporting the fundraising efforts. So I definitely wanted to have you on to share some of your insights here. But you mentioned fear of money, which sounds like a, a kind of a universal topic in some ways where it's like, you know, money people's response and reaction to money can be all across the board, right? And like fear of it, I don't wanna touch it, I don't wanna deal with it. It's scary. Can be one of those reactions. So how does that play into. Uh, specifically fundraising for nonprofits. Where does that fear of money come into play?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yeah, so imagine you're the CEO of a nonprofit. of them have gotten their job because they came up through the program side of the industry.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Hmm.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

out how to. Distribute food through a feeding program at a lower cost or more efficient cost per dollar. They figured out how to do better anti-trafficking work. They, they're geniuses in that regard. Uh, but they've always done it to a degree of significant self-sacrifice. Uh, they've never aspired to have money themselves. They've aspired to make an impact. Um, when you've done that for enough time, um, you, you just have lost, I don't wanna say you've lost touch'cause you've actually been in touch with something. I think that's much more important. But you've lost touch, quote unquote, uh, with, with how it works. And your peer set has completely. Uh, you know, bifurcated, uh, where you know your friends from college who are doing really well economically, economically are over here and you're over here and you just lost the ability to talk about it, or, and this is what I often see because nonprofit leaders are sometimes very idealistic. Sometimes they start to think that money is actually bad, and people who have money don't care about the things that they. Care about and they start to get a little bit jaded. Uh, and that's where you really run into challenges. Uh, but at the end of the day, there's no class. On how to make a nonprofit raise more revenue. Uh, and most CEOs don't know how to do it. And then the poor chiefs of staff are just there trying to put out fires, um, and chase down people for their CEO to meet with when they're just like, please, sir, you know, may I have some more? Um, and, and they get to see a, a crazy cycle just on repeat of, you know, resource starvation.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

And if you're doing the same things that have not hit the mark or frustrated you over and over, you're probably gonna. The same results. So, um, so how do we, how do, how, how do you help people break out of that cycle and say, Hey, let's do things a little bit differently. Let's approach it this way and see what happens.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yeah. Um. There's the saying, you know, people rise to the occasion. It almost never happens. Uh, people don't rise to the occasion. They fall to their processes. And if you want to create a healthy fundraising program, or you want to help your boss create a healthy, healthy fundraising program, it, you have to create a process in a system for it. It won't just magically happen. Okay. Um. that system needs to look very much like how a business would set up their revenue operations team. Okay. What's your funnel? Who are your leads and your targets? How do you qualify them? How do you journey with them? How do you, uh, pitch them and, and close them and then steward them so they stay with you? Um. nonprofit leaders think that they can save their way to growth. You can't. You have to raise your way to growth. Um, there's not enough dollars that you can save to be able to meet your budget demands. You have to go out there and raise more money, which means actually doing the hard work, rolling up your sleeves and creating a a an end-to-end soup to nuts fundraising program.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Okay, so on these processes, how do you actually, change the approach? So might be like a mindset piece at the core of it where it's like, Hey, I'm not asking for a handout. Uh, I, I see money as a resource maybe, and there's people in the world who have this resource that would help my organization and I have the processes and the. People with the right knowledge and the right connections, and those are also resources. And so I'm ma, I'm matching these resources and that might be like the mindset that helps. And then laying out these processes. What's an actual like fundraising approach that you've seen be successful?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yeah, how you just described it, I would define as being a broker. Okay. Um, you're not, Hey, give me resource. Give me resource. You're trying to connect people's passion and the mission they feel in their life

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Hmm.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

to work that's actually accomplishing that. Okay? So this isn't if you're a great fundraiser or you want to become one, this isn't. You know it's not John Bon Jovi living on a prayer. It's not Orhan Oliver, please sir, may I have some more? It's, Hey, I see that you care about this and here's a solution to that. Over here I can actually help you solve your problem. It puts the donor in the, in the hero seat, if you will, if you're familiar with like a hero script,

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yeah.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

puts them in the, in the seat and that changes the whole dynamic. So you don't have to be afraid of the conversation. You can actually go in with confidence because you're adding value, uh, to your, to your giver. Um, and you have to figure out who those givers are. Okay. So, you know, pick any space. Let's pick food pantries right now because there's a huge decrease in federal funding available for. Food pantries. Um, so, okay. Who in your community cares about hunger, uh, in your community? Okay. Um, who are your current donors? Okay, they probably fit some kind of a profile. Uh, let's go figure out how we find more people like them. Let's ask them for connections to two or three friends. Uh, let's find out what church or religious group. Cares about this. Uh, and then you target them and then you start working a, a process. No one's going to. When your kid comes and asks you for something, do you say yes or no right away? No. You always say, let mom and dad talk about this. Okay? Uh, don't go into your fundraising meeting thinking you're gonna get a yes or no at the end of it.'cause you're not, that's not realistic. Go in and say, Hey, is this a good fit? Is there an intersection here? Is there a journey that we can go on? The answer is no, then it's no, you don't waste your time anymore. But if it's yes, and hopefully it's yes more times than not, then you start engaging more, sending some content, sending some blogs, some thought leadership pieces until they're ready, uh, to be approached and ask for a gift. But this takes time and it takes relationship, and it's not transactional at all.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

And I like the, that you fact, you highlighted its relationships. So it's connection and it's a deep, meaningful connection over a long period of time. And, uh, the most effective kind of fundraising. Efforts that I've seen. Nothing like kind of what you've been exposed to, but it is like, I know someone who trusts me and I, and I know that they're interested in this area and I have a way to help them, um, contribute to that area. So it's just a natural conversation and connection. I mean, to me those seem like the, the best scenarios in terms of, of fundraising. Um, and I wanna hit on something else that you've kind of, we've kind of glanced on, is. There's asking for funds, there's people, there's givers who are donating funds, but then there's like the act of receiving money, which might come into like the fear piece or psychology piece, but how do people receive money? Well.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

It's a great question. Number one, that money is not going to you. It is not your money, okay? So many fundraisers, CEOs, board members are very awkward when somebody slides the million dollar check across the table, okay? Um, it's not yours. So, yes, say thank you, but recognize they're not giving to you. They're not giving to your nonprofit. They're giving through your nonprofit to see change that they want to see happen in the world. Okay? When you realize that they're giving through you and not giving to you, um, what you do, obviously you thank them.'cause that's just polite When somebody, you know, hands you a million bucks, uh, across the, uh, the lunch table, um, you become partners. You've both brought a different asset to the table. You've brought the knowhow of your organization. They've brought the capital that you need to expand, uh, and bring your knowhow into the real world. I. So yes, you thank them, but then you partner with them and you journey and you update and you tell stories of transformation. Don't go into the position of, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, this is my like, benefactor. You know? Right. Uh, they're not your patron. Uh, they're your partner in the work. Um, and keep them updated. Ask them what's meaningful for them and then just keep doing that with more and more people. But I see so many people get really uncomfortable in that moment. and they make it all about themselves and they get, you know, oh my gosh, I can't believe you did this. course you can believe they did it because you spent six months talking to them and they told you they cared about this thing, uh, and you guided them there. Uh, so don't undersell your value as the broker, as the connector in this by getting all weird and bashful, uh, when they actually give you money.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

And then I think along with that is. When someone does make a generous donation of any amount, the follow up can kind of be, make or break. So, you know, my family has supported, um, certain causes that we care about and the, the responses that I get very widely. So it's like on one end of the spectrum, no response at all. It's like, okay, I hope hopefully that went through okay. Like not even a confirmation message. Um, and then on the other end of the spectrum. I have received like, like phone calls, like from a real live person saying, you know, we received this, thank you so much, it's going to this, um, part of the organization that you earmarked it for and you know, we're gonna use this in the next, you know, couple weeks, months here for this initiative we're doing. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, that's amazing. And then I've gotten like, you know, the, the various letters you get in the mail, um, and some people are, are tricky where I'm like, I was looking at one and I was like. Is this a handwritten message? And I was like, looking at it through the light and I was like, is this real? I was like, no. It's one of those kind of types that looks like handwritten messages, but um, it's like the full gamut across the board. So from your perspective, you've seen dozens and dozens and hundreds of versions of this. What's the best way to, um, follow up with someone once they've made a donation?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Okay, so I want to give a stat first and then I want to answer your question.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Okay.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Only between 40 and 45% of people who gave a gift to a nonprofit in 2024 last year, only 40 to 45% of them will repeat a gift to those organizations in

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Ah,

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

25,

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

one time only.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

time only, and there's a reason for it. Nobody reaches out to say thanks.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yes. Okay.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

the number one reason. Okay. So what you just described as your family's experience is, so every, every December as a company, we send like small gifts, like a hundred, 200 bucks to 30 to 50 nonprofits around the country.'cause we test to see what their response is.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Oh

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

50, about five actually do great follow up with us.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

wow.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Okay. Um, so donors leave organizations for three primary reasons. Uh, one, they just had a life event that happened. Like you can't control that. Uh, two, they don't know where their money is going. Okay, because you never told'em. You can control that. And three, they don't know that they haven't given again, uh, because, I don't know, just like everything in life. not thinking about you as much as you're thinking about them. Okay? So sometimes you have to remind them, organizations that do a great job with this, out seven to 10 times after somebody gives a gift. I. Okay, there's the immediate, Hey, we got this. Thanks so much.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Confirmation.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

con,

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yeah. Just

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

polite. Okay. If

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

yes.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

if I order something on Amazon and I don't see the confirmation, what do you do? You kind of worry, you know, did it go through? Is is Jeff Bezos gonna deliver it tomorrow? You know, for me, you know, whatever it is. Um. If a nonprofit doesn't give that you're actually left wondering, did, did I make a gift? Um, the good nonprofits then enroll you into a welcome series, and yes, it can be automated. Automation is not bad. Um, hey, here's what your money's going towards. Here's a story of how we use somebody else's money last year to, you know, bring about change. Um, most first time donors. If they stick around, will give another gift within the first 90 days.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Oh wow.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yeah. Um, a donor gives a second gift to a nonprofit, the retention rate goes up to close to 70%.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

So you want that second one? Build the momentum.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

It's called a golden gift actually, in fundraising. You want it. Uh, if they only stay at the first gift, uh, and you haven't gotten a second gift within like 180 days, the chances of them staying with you are 19%. I.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Oh wow. Okay.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

it is worth the hustle to think well put them into a series, pick up the phone and call them, send them an actual handwritten note.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

That would be amazing. Yeah.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

sometimes that's hard, uh, but if you're, if you are a pizza shop. Only 40% of the people who bought pizza from you last year liked it enough to come back and buy it from you this year. You wouldn't be a pizza shop for much longer, okay? You would go out of business. Nonprofits do it all the time. They need to get better at it. If only 40% of your donors are coming back, that's not a problem on them. It's a problem on you. You need to communicate better, more effectively, more efficiently, and more thoroughly. With them.'cause that's how you're gonna grow.'cause you're spending so much money to go out there and get new donors every year. Why not just keep the ones you have?

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

It's kinda like in, in business, it's, it's easier to retain an existing customer than go after net new. You gotta do both. Um, but yeah, there's, there's a kind of a two-pronged approach. And I will say I have, I remember one organization that sent me a true, like handwritten card and like members of their team had put like a one sentence. One sentence in their thing and like signed it. But there were like five people who did this card and I've kept it and it's from, uh, Roanoke Counseling. Just shout out to them who help adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. But they sent me a handwritten card and I still have that because it was that memorable. So I love your callout on actually writing a card to people. So we've gone through a lot here. So just like to recap, we've gone like, have. Fundraising efforts, make connections, build long lasting relationships. We have like, have a process built in. Uh, one of those steps is like follow up with people who actually have made a donation, um, and have a personal touch to it. Like the phone call meant a lot. The handwritten card meant a lot. Uh, kind of unpack your fear of money if you have that going on in your mindset across your organization. Which leads me to. Another question which is near and dear to chiefs of staff hearts, which is how do you help your CEO with their fundraising attitude and approach? Because chief of staff is that right hand strategic partner and the CEO O is leading the charge on this. So their the CEO's mindset and Headspace is a big deal. How does the chief of staff help their CEO?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

That's a great question. At the end of the day, it really just matters based on your CEO and what he or she, you know, is, is like, but I think there are a few, a few themes that can come up. Every chief of staff I have, have had in my career has been, you know, my right hand, but also like the biggest, biggest truth teller in the office. Okay. Because sometimes the boss gets out there with ideas, sometimes the boss gets. Tapped emotionally, they're just burned out'cause everybody's always coming, uh, to them. And the chief of staff is there to be like, no, here, here's true. North. Here is what's most important. Okay, so Chief of staffs out there of nonprofits, you have to keep your CEO focused on fundraising. So many of them will wanna abdicate that. And they'll wait until it's too late to make a difference. Okay, so let's just say you have a calendar year, fiscal year, and they get super stressed out in October or November. Wouldn't it be amazing if they started working on this in January? Okay. Uh, we help CEOs do this all the time. Wouldn't it be amazing if they had a scorecard? To see how the fundraising team was doing every month, not just a a lag indicator card, but like, Hey, here are the activities that the fundraising industry knows leads to good results. all things that you can control. How about you work with the head of fundraising, your chief development officer, or head of marketing, to develop that scorecard so the CEO can figure out what's happening? Because sometimes the CEOs sit back and say, you know, should I keep this person? Should I let them go? Should I keep them? Should I let them go? When it comes to fundraisers and they do it all year long. They're just waiting for some kind of confirmation. Help them with data to get the confirmation, uh, that they need. And then we all know this, sometimes CEOs, um, think a little bit more highly of themselves than they ought, and when they're walking out the door, never, never when they're walking out the door to the donor lunch, okay? Remind them that this meeting is not about them. This meeting is about the person they're sitting across the table from. Okay. That they are just the guide, they are just the broker. They're making a connection. Um, remind'em to ask great questions. Um, and kinda like Hamilton, talk less, smile more, uh, a g generally works well in, uh, in fundraising.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

You're speaking my language. When you say things like scorecard and leading and lagging indicators, um, just outta curiosity, what are some, you mentioned kind of the leading indicators that we know in the industry. Like what, what are some of those that you can always look for? I.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yeah, so we actually are revising our whole like fundraising metrics guide right now. It's one of our most popular articles, uh, on our website. Um, and it's different for each different donor segment, but let's just take major donors. Okay. Um, so many people. Number one, don't measure anything. But then if they do measure, they just measure phone calls and like meetings. That doesn't tell me anything besides you're talking to people. I don't know if you're good at it. I don't know if you're just talking to your buddies. Um, so I. Uh, what you need to measure in terms of your, your lead indicators is your donor development strategy. Okay? Uh, that funnel process from, can your donor rep take them from a lead? Can they qualify them? Can they journey with them? Uh, can they ask and can they close? Um, they need to be doing all of that. So I tell people the simplest way to do this is, um, measure the number of meetings per month in each category. Okay? So if you were a small nonprofit, I would say, okay, each fundraising rep needs 30 leads. Okay? Uh, then they need to have six qualifying meetings a month. The goal is to figure out if it's worth your time to keep pursuing those people, okay? Because if you are raising money for, um, refugees and immigrants, but these people care about puppy rescues. Okay. And they're only gonna give the dog rescues stop. Don't waste your time. You're not gonna convince'em. Okay. Like my family, we have very clear priorities when we give money away. Um, and if people can talk to me all day, it's nice. I like talking to people, but like, if they actually ask me the right questions, I would tell them no. We give almost all of our money that we give away to these three things, um, and we're not gonna change it. Um. So you're trying to get a yes or a no. Is it worth your time? Have your team do six of those meetings, okay? If it is worth their time, then you need to, you don't just go and ask'em for money. You need to journey with them. You need to bring'em to your office. You need to show'em the program impact. You need to tell'em stories. So how many of those journey conversations and experiences are you giving? I would say they need to do four. You know, a month and are they actually asking for money? Um, you need to do that two or three times a month. And in October, November and December, you need to do it every day. Um, and just measure those simple things. Now, those aren't the most sophisticated lead indicators you can have out there, but there are enough to get you going and there are enough to start raising more money so you can invest in more sophisticated systems and processes. The other thing I always tell people to measure is that they need to touch. 80% of their fundraising portfolio every month they're a major gift officer. Okay? So this problem we just talked about, nobody follows up. 80% need to be followed up with every month. Uh, now that can be something as simple as, Hey, here was this article I saw, and based on our conversation way back when, I thought you'd really like it, but it keeps. The organization and it keeps you in their mind, which is really important. Uh, it could also be, um, something much simpler. Uh, it could be just, Hey, here's a thought leadership. Our CEO wrote, here's a blog piece that we put out. Here's a story of impact. Um, hey, I know your son's going to college for the first time this month. Check in to see if you're doing okay. Uh, those are all. Great things and you need to touch 80%. Why 80%?'cause there are some people who just don't want you to bug'em. Uh, you should figure out who those people are and just talk to'em quarterly.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yeah. When it's hurting your cause versus helping your cause. Yes. And then I'm just curious, what are you seeing in terms of, uh, like you talk about these, the reps that are making calls. How many are volunteers versus like full-time staff? Like who? Who makes up these teams that are making this outreach?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

I would say the best thing you can invest in is paid full-time major gift officers. That is how you grow organizations. 67% of all philanthropic dollars in the United States are still given from individuals.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Wow.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Yes, you have Mackenzie Scott. Yes. You have the Gates Foundation. Yes, you have Warren Buffet and all these different people, uh, in their institutions, their foundations. But 67% is still given from people like you and me.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Wow.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

invest in major gift officers and they're probably gonna be among the highest paid people in your organization.'cause they're hard to find. Um, they know their worth. If they don't know their worth, don't hire them, uh, because they're not gonna be good at the job. Set up their system, set up their process and let go. Okay. Um. You're gonna do well, and then you can build monthly giving and mid-level giving and corporate and foundation giving. But major donors is how you can grow the base of almost any nonprofit.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

And you kind of touched on that first gift and then the second gift, which is the golden one. And then I know on a lot of like websites, there's like one-time gift or recurring and you, you know, I'm sure organizations always wanna get people in the recurring. Cycle is there, is there a whole strategy for moving people from like these one onesie, twosie type of donations to like a recurring gift?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Oh my goodness. Yes. Just saying, Hey, would you like to make your month gift monthly? Does not cause many people to make their gift monthly. Okay. It's wasted space. What really works is a branded monthly giving product. Okay. Um, so we're, we're all very familiar with child sponsorship, right? Some of the biggest organizations in the world do it. Um, that's a monthly giving product. You're$49 or your$39 every month and you stay for 18 years, you know, or whatever it is. And you add two or three kids, you know, as you have two or three kids. Um, or you could, which is, by the way, that's a very high cost monthly giving program.'cause you're tracking, you know, these one-to-one relationships everywhere. Or you can create a a, a branded community. That ties in with your, um, uh, your work. So I used to work at an international NGO, uh, and everybody would the program staff, the communities that we would serve, they would all work, walk on dirt paths every day to get to and from work, to get to and from the water sources. And so we created a monthly Giving Pro product called The Path, um, where you would join, you know, monthly and, uh, tie your generosity, your compassion, your support with that of thousands around the world, uh, to help people walk the path, uh, to building brighter futures. And it worked incredibly well. Okay. But if you wanna. Get monthly reoccurring, you know, uh, donors. You gotta put a little bit of sweat equity into it and create a product that works. Um, we have a whole system that we walk people through. The three bi, the three Bs of monthly giving products. You get the brand it, you gotta tell a story, you gotta build it, which is the systems and guts. And then third, you gotta go out there and get people to buy it. Okay? So three Bs of monthly giving.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Beautiful. And then you've hit on this a couple times, but the seasonality of. Giving, uh, uh, like there's like holiday times and New Year seems to be like a natural built in one. Um, depending on like the religious affiliation we just had Ramadan, um, and different things like that. Are, are those just cycles that are built in you have to know about and work around or work with, or you've kind of mentioned some pieces where you wanna make sure your year is kind of even.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

So I don't think you're ever gonna get your year to be completely even. Okay. 30% of all charitable giving in the United States is given in December. Okay, 30% and the last day, December 31st. I forget the percentage right now, but it's like disproportionately large. Um, so you're always gonna be back loaded in the calendar year, but you can smooth out your cash in different ways. Um, you mentioned Ramadan, the last 10 days of Ramadan, um, Muslims who celebrate are very, very generous. It's the same as kind of the Christmas time, uh,

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yeah.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

you know, Christians. So very generous. Um, also late spring. summer, early fall, or other high seasons of giving, which coincide with, uh, Christian calendar lent Easter, uh, usually and coincide with back to school. Okay, so when people of means spend their summers traveling, you know, everywhere, and they get back into their rhythm, there's something like, oh, we should give back. It's kind of like a, it's almost like New Year's, a new start, a new resolution for the new school year. Um, and major, major givers give on their own schedule. They don't always give in December. Uh, if they're in finance and they're incentivized by bonus structures, sometimes they get those in April, uh, and they give their money away in April. So, um, building out a multifaceted fundraising programs helps you with that cash smoothing, uh, that you need to operate instead of getting all of it

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Um, yes, and if you were speaking to a chief of staff working for a nonprofit, and their scope is, is broad, right? They, they gotta keep the CEO focused. They gotta make sure we have the right people building out the team, um, bringing in the right people, making the calls, building the processes, et cetera, et cetera. They're touching pretty much all of what we, uh, what we've discussed. What is like the overriding piece of advice you would give this person or just like this, this is always gonna help you, or This is often gets missed. I see it over and over again. What advice would you give to a chief of staff at a nonprofit?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Don't enable your CEO, just don't do it. They might not like fundraising. It might make them incredibly anxious, okay? But they have to accept that it's part of the job. And so you have to help them create systems by which to measure progress, hold people, including themselves. Accountable, um, and help them not believe some of the pervasive myths out there about fundraising and money. Um, don't enable your CEO and help them to, uh, grab the bull by the horns and wrestle it to the ground.'cause if not, you're gonna stay in the same place year after year after year and just hope and pray that there's a big surprise check shows up in the mail one day and that doesn't happen.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Yeah. Um, hope and prayers is, is one strategy, but, uh, you might wanna combine that with, with other things as well. And just for people in general, if they're wanting to give and contribute to causes they care about, what would you, what piece of advice would you give to them in general?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Number one, thank you for caring and wanting to give back. Number two, figure out what causes you're most passionate about. Okay? The world is on fire right now. Um, okay. So figure out what you and your family care about most and why, and then seek a partner in that. Okay? Don't just seek someone that's gonna dial for dollars. Find an organization that does phenomenal work. That treats you really well, that helps you and your family live out your, your family's mission, your family's call, uh, in this area. Um, it's your money. Don't settle for being a nonprofit. Sloppy seconds. Okay? Find the one that's gonna treat you well and that's changing the world and that you can kind of join your efforts to.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

James, thank you so much for everything you've shared here. If people are interested in what you've said about how to set up the systems and the mindset for a nonprofit, or they have any other questions around this area, what do you do and who does your organization help?

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

so, um, our organization, the key post group, we help small and mid-size nonprofits, and our whole goal is to help them scale their innovative solutions. We scour for the most innovative groups out there that don't know how to fundraise, and then we help them figure out how to do it. Uh, you can find a, and we specialize in groups that implement. Okay? So if you're a higher education institution or a hospital. We can help you, but we care deeply about issues of poverty and justice, and that's where we spend most of our time. Um, you can find us, the kios group.com, K-I-P-O-S, or you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm there every day and respond to all of the messages myself.

emily-sander_3_04-01-2025_113425:

Beautiful, and we'll have those links in the show notes. James, thank you so much again.

james-misner_1_04-01-2025_143425:

Thank you so much. This has been great.