Leveraging Leadership

Building Trust and Leadership Lessons from the World of Baseball

• Jessa Estenzo • Season 1 • Episode 243

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Joel Goldberg shares stories from over 30 years in broadcasting with the Kansas City Royals, focusing on how small actions and building trust lead to big results. He explains the importance of routines and relationships, gives insight into working with players and staff, and offers advice for Chiefs of Staff about investing in people. Joel also discusses handling social media, pressure, and how lessons from baseball apply to the business world.


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Joel Goldberg’s Website


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Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.

 

Time Stamps:

02:39 Building Trust with Players and Families

04:52 The Importance of Relationships in Broadcasting

09:15 Life During Baseball Season

11:58 Transitioning to Business and Speaking

15:29 Handling Pressure in Baseball and Business

22:13 Journey Through Career Milestones

26:29 The Importance of Routine

27:05 Social Media and Its Impact

31:11 Building Trust and Relationships

38:13 Final Words of Wisdom

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

My guest today is Joel Goldberg and he has spent the last 30 plus years in television broadcasting, the last 18 of which have been with the Kansas City Royals, so MLB baseball, um, and he has now been translating. What he's seen, uh, from the front row in baseball into business. And his latest book is called Small Ball Big Dreams and is about how small actions can lead to big results. Joel, great to have you on.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Emily, thanks so much for having me. Good to see you.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Beautiful. And your voice is gonna be a beautiful broadcasting voice, so our, our guest will, uh, our listeners will appreciate that right away.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Well, I. I guess you could stay in the business for 30 years and not have a good voice or whatever it is, but I, it, it helps, we'll put it that way.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt for sure. Yes. Well, so you're doing the, the pre-game, the endgame, the post-game broadcasting for, for the Kansas City Royals to start with a baseball Question for you, what is something that people don't know about one of their favorite players?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Ooh. I, I think I would say this, that, that's an interesting question because it's gonna be a different answer, obviously for, for any player, and I don't know all those answers either, other than the fact that what I would say is that, that, that these guys, um, and I'd say this for any sport or, or maybe any, like, you know, high profile, well, I would call the, they're all outliers. Like there're only so many of these guys in the world that make it to this level is that they're all the end, they're all just kind of normal people living abnormal lives. you know, some have bigger egos, some have smaller egos. Some are introverts, some are extroverts. Some. know, love country music, some love rap music, some love. There are all different shape sizes and backgrounds and, and, and it's so, you know, every locker room or baseball, we call it usually a clubhouse. It it's just this melting pot people that, that for the most part, all had this same dream of, of hitting home runs one day in the big leagues or striking guys out or whatever it is. And, and, and you know, the more you get to know them and the more you dig a little bit, they all have some interesting backstories that really aren't that different than you and I.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Wow. Yeah, and I mean, we're gonna talk about trust here in a minute, in a, in a business context and building a culture. But you have to build trust with the players because part of your job as a broadcaster is to share not just the stats and what's happening on the field, but some of the personal backstories of the players to make it more interesting, um, and have a better connection with the, with your listeners. So how do you go about building that connection with the players and sometimes their families?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Yeah. Uh, the families. That's a good, really good point too. I mean, if I were to go the reverse order of that, earning the trust or, or getting to know the families oftentimes leads

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Oh.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

trust with the athlete because if their family trusts me, if their, if their spouse or their parents are saying good things, you know, sometimes they're too locked in to have all the time to build, like they're not going to the ballpark. Trust with anyone, maybe with their own teammates. Certainly not me, but one thing that, you know, I don't think I was ever taught. When I was studying to, to be a broadcaster in journalism school a million years ago, I don't know that anybody ever really taught a class or expressed the importance of building relationships and trust.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

talked about the importance of sources and things like that, but I, you know, I, I like to tell people all the time, and I didn't understand this when I started in the business, I'm going to the ballpark every day. one, first and foremost to build relationships and trust that, and

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

the easiest, but yet also the hardest thing to do, uh, in the grind of an everyday can. You, can you go in there and further that relationship And there's so many little subtle ways to do that. And if I do that. result that I get from that is better than any preparation or homework or knowing every step. Like you could look up all of that. I mean, baseball and sports are kinda like an open book test, as long as you have all the information and you know where to find it. And if you do it long enough, we have so many good research tools that I know where to find everything. Or if I don't, I know who to ask to help me with it. But you, you can't fake your way through or you can't just build that trust. So that to me is really what I'm going to the ballpark every day doing. And when people

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

why do you go so early? Uh, well, one is to get the interviews, and this is when the interviews start. But the other is that it's a lot of standing around and checking in with people and getting to know little things and filling in the blanks.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

And the other thing is a lot of people hear baseball team and they think of all the players and the backups and maybe the coaches, but there's an expanded group of people who co comprise the team and the running of that organization, uh, from, you know, like the people who show you to your seats, the ushers, um, the, the people who take care of the players, the trainers, the massage therapists, the analytics department of the baseball team. So, uh, can you just talk about. Your interactions with some of those folks, do you interact with with all of those folks?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Everybody, everybody, and, and it's a really good point that you're making and I'll, I'll extend it out a little bit everyone that you just mentioned. Would fall in that list of people to build trust with. And, and I'm not going to the ballpark today or tomorrow saying, okay, I need to build trust with this, this, this, and this. Maybe someone on the other team if I think, Hey, there's a good story to tell, or, or, or maybe, you know, maybe like it's a player on the other team that grew up in Kansas City and, and I could tell that story and, and maybe every time we face them

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Sure.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

there'll be a little bit more, you know, and a chance to do that. But, but really for the most part, it's with our team. So analytics department. Absolutely. The more that they understand what, what I'm trying to do, and I understand what they're trying to do potentially leads to more context and more stories and more openness. Here's a great example, the training staff. This is at least the way that it would work with me and my relationship with the royals. Uh, there aren't too many days that go by that I don't need some type of clarity or context with an injury. Whether it be something that happened yesterday, whether it be a timeline of a guy that's rehabbing, and we could get those basic reports. The manager says, yep, he's gonna be another week or two weeks, or we know yet. the ones that really know the best are the training staff. So what I've come to learn over the years is that we have, you know, three or so trainers plus strength coaches, and, and, and on and on, dietician, massage therapist. You said none of them are gonna want to give me any official statement or even off the record statement because they understand that the head trainer is really where it all needs to to come from. So yes, I still work on building relationship and trust with all those assistant trainers. Because you know what? If that doesn't go well, they're gonna go back to the head trainer and say, man, this Goldberg guy is so difficult. ultimately, when I need clarity, I'm gonna go to the head trainer. And what's happened over time is I've built that relationship and trust with him is one. I hope he understands that I'm not gonna bother him or pull him away from something that he needs to be doing at, at worst, he's gonna hear from me, Hey, I know you're probably busy right now. I don't see you out on the field, you know, via text message. Will you have a minute or two to catch up real quick or to answer

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Okay.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

by text? He also understands that he can control the message, not in a manipulative way, but in a way to make sure that the right message is getting out there. And all I ask in return is that if you trust me that I'm not gonna. You don't take it where you don't want it to go. And I understand that they rarely wanna put an exact date timeline on it because setbacks happen and, you know, progress. If I understand where he's coming from, and he understands that by, by lending clarity and better language and getting away from doctor speak and, and, and putting this in layman's terms with, uh, you know, hey, when a guy blows out his arm, it's kinda like the treads on the tire of your car. Eventually it's gonna happen when he can gimme that type of information. even if it's like, Hey, we don't wanna say this. Well, can I go here when, when I earn that trust? vice versa. I've got good information every single day and I've gotta work at that every single day. And that would, every single person you've talked about, the, the, the, the usher, there's an usher that's been working at games since the early seventies. I think it'd be cool to tell his story on the pregame show at some point. And I recently said to him, Hey, Bob. Would you ever wanna come on the show? I think it'd be so cool to talk about 50 plus years here. Yeah, I'd love to do it, Joel. Well, every time I see him, I give him a hug. I wave. You know, it just, every single one of those encounters matters. And, and if they don't lead to a story or, or, or content. So what it's fulfilling just to meet these people.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Absolutely. And I want, I want listeners and chiefs of staff to, uh, listen to what Joel just said. He invests in relationships and it, and it seems very casual and natural just to go out and meet people and talk to people. It's not, you know, I'm, I'm laser pointing like this person today, but I. But above the preparation, um, which I'm sure you do as well, but that's the most important thing you do. So I want chiefs of staff and leaders to hear that, uh, baseball is seasonal. So can you talk us through like what does your life and schedule look like in and out of season?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

In season, I oftentimes don't know, you know, what city I'm in and what day of the week it is because it is,

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

I.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

to seven days a week. And I was telling you before we came on that, uh, we're early in our, our season as you and I are recording this, but we just finished up with 17 games in 17 days and the last 10 we're in three cities on the road. And, and so it's, it could get a little disorienting at times. And look, I'm not the guy that's playing. Um, you know, the physical draining might be more the, the sleep, the mental draining is real, but I've also done it so long that I've just come to understand that in season you have to say no to more things. You have to pick your spots. I still do more than I should be doing, so I'm trying to run the speaking business and a weekly podcast and all those things too. So you have to delegate. You have to work ahead. I'm not a very structured person, but that's why I've got people to help me with some of it and understand that it is very rare. This is where I can relate to the athletes, not the physical dream, but that you're rarely gonna be at your best on any given day. So on the worst of days, can you still do the job at a level where no one can tell that you're maybe playing at 50% or 60%? Uh, and, and, and then on those days, understand that. Maybe you're not gonna connect with as many people, or maybe you're not gonna push yourself as hard, or maybe you need to say no to that networking lunch or that early morning. Like I won't this time of year, I might, when I'm home, basically every other week, you know, I might take over the course of a week, one or two, maybe three coffee lunches, and that coffee will not happen before nine o'clock unless it's someone that is so important that I, I've gotta do it. And, but off season, you know, it might be one or two a day, five days a week. And, and then trying to protect my Saturdays and Sundays in the off season. And so in season it could be seven days a week. The, the only non-negotiable for me during baseball season is the baseball game. So if there's a, oftentimes our games are at six 40, say six 30. That means I've got a six o'clock pre-game show. I'm probably gonna get to the stadium around two, maybe two 30 at the latest for a six 40 game. That's when you start to do, uh, some of that. call it networking, but it's not really what we would call it there, but catching up with people, building trust, building rapport. Suddenly you look up and, you know, it's, it's five 30 and they want me in front of the camera at five 40 to go over, uh, the show with my partner for six o'clock, and we're off and running and, and then you're getting home at 9 30, 10 11 o'clock at night and do it again the next day. And so it's just, it's a dizzying pace during the season and then it's recharge and business in the off season.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

So off season you do have a gap and you've been doing it for so long. I'm wondering was was just having that off time part of what got you into the business side of things and doing the keynotes and the trainings that you do, how did that, how did that transition first start to take place? I.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Yeah, that's a great question because it was, I think, a later discovery for me. I think that the mistake that I made, and I don't know if there's a lesson for your chiefs of staff out there. I, I, I think there, well, off, I believe there's a lesson in everything. If, if you're, I. You know, if you're curious, and I, and I'm, but I'm, I'm trying to find the lesson and I think I know what it is here, that we oftentimes can get so laser focused on what our task at hand is or what we do or our strengths or, or, or sort of the lane that we're in. You know, we, we hear that expression stay in your lane,

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

to some extent I agree, like you shouldn't be out of your lane for things that you're not good at or that take up time that you don't have. But at the same time, there might be some lanes that you're really good at or that make sense to you, that you're maybe not open-minded enough. So that's where I think the open-mindedness is. And for me, uh, I came to Kansas City with my family in 2008. I've been in TV for about 10 years. At that point, a little, little more than. about about 14 years, I guess, at that point. And all I had ever done until I came to Kansas City was year round salaried television. Uh, my,

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

first six, seven years, more than that, 10 years was, uh, local news. I. So, you know, you're on salary and you might get your two weeks vacation and covering a lot of sports. And the last few years was doing what I'm doing now, but it was a year round job and I did some other sports. When I came here, I gave up the salary, I became an independent contractor, and I had like, sign me up. I'm I'm, I do every pre-game show, every post-game show, every in game report, and I'm gonna get paid a year's worth of salary in six months. Now, keep in mind it's a year's worth of work in six months when you average it up, but I never knew what to do with the rest of it, and I just kind of went down the lane that I thought that I was in, looked for other sports to do, and it was a game here and a game there. And yeah, a little bit of a paycheck and kind of something to scratch the itch. And I accidentally stumbled into this speaking thing, at the suggestion of a friend who just said. Kind of a little bit of what you're asking, like what do you do in those, that gap of six months? And, and I told him what I just told you now, and I said, Adam, I'm speaking to the golf care and long long care management association of blah, blah, blah next week. And he said, do you do a lot of that? I said, no. And he said, you should, you could start a business. And so that gave me, I mean, if I'm really being honest, gave me a side hustle that, ooh, there's something that I could maybe go and make a little money that I could be good at. Then

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

very quickly it became an addiction and something that I realized that I actually like this as much as tv. Like I love it. so it filled in all of the gaps and, and now I feel like, and this is a good thing, but I. I could, I could work the same amount of hours and pace in the off season just working on this business and business development and everything at the same pace that I do in baseball. But it would, you know, it'd kill me. So

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

there's a lot. interesting'cause I have a lot more freedom in the off season, but I don't have the structure of baseball. And once baseball starts, I have the guardrails of knowing where I'm gonna be every single day. And then fill in the blanks in the off season, I fill in all of those blanks with everything else. So it's, it's like, you know, a hundred miles an hour and then as many miles as hour, an hour as I wanna drive in the off.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah. And one of the crossover points between baseball and business I think is, is pressure. So in baseball, let's just take an at bat for instance. And the thing about baseball is you have to certainly be athletic to play the game, but it's a more. Technical sport than some others where you have to have precision and you have to have, like, hitting a baseball, I, I heard is one of the most difficult things to do in all of sports.'cause you have a fraction of a second to decide if you're gonna swing or not. And so, um, there's a, there's a technical piece. So being at bat, and everyone's watching you and the whole team is depending on you, is, is a pressure moment. Especially if it's like the bottom of the ninth and it's, you know, base is loaded and blah, blah, blah. I think the equivalent in the business world might be, you know, A CEO is going up to a board meeting and this is make or break and this is, you know, do we do reams of layoff rounds? Or what do we do in the industry? Like this decision is make or break. And so I'm wondering what if any kind of crossover you see around pressure from baseball to business.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Tons of crossover. And know, the hitting piece is, I mean, really the thing that makes baseball more unique than any other sport, they're all unique in their own ways, but it is that it's the only sport that is wired for every day. And so there's a lot there in dealing with pressure because. The failure you had today shouldn't. does, but I mean human nature. But it shouldn't affect you tomorrow. Can't affect you tomorrow

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

it's not like football where you had a bad day and now you got a week to review it and figure it out and work on it. I mean, you got a little bit of time, but you also want to go home and sleep and see your kids and your wife and take care of things, and then you're right back at it again. And oh, by the way, after you. Failed and went, oh, for four with four strikeouts and you're leaving the ballpark at 11 at night. There's a day game the next day. And so really

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Oh.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

have, not a lot of time to sleep. And then as soon as that's done, you gotta get on a plane. So you gotta make sure you're taking care of things at home. I mean, I'm just trying to put myself their shoes as just a guy that's in front of the television camera doing this. And so. There's all of that. And oh, by the way, that precision, you're talking about Emily and the hand-eye coordination and trying to time up that a hundred mile an hour fastball seems great until they throw you an 82 mile an hour curve ball and now you and adjust based on, on that. And then what about the bases loaded that you talked about in the ninth inning? We had it in our game that I did last night. Base is loaded. Uh, two, nothing lead. And what about the pressure of the pitcher who's been great, but he just walked three baters with two outs

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Oh no.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Another walk could lead to a run and a base hit could tie the game. Well, guess what? He gave up a double and gave up three runs and a two. Nothing lead is suddenly a three, two loss. And thankfully they came back in the ninth and then the 11th inning and won. Like this is the fun and the drama every day for me to talk about. But what about if you're the one stepping on the mound or, or, or into the batter's box and you hear them often say, it sounds so simple. My, my guest, uh, hero of the game last night. Um, in his second language of, of English said, I just kept reminding myself to breathe. that sounds so basic, but just like, okay, I got this. Um, I don't know what that would be like. I don't feel pressure when I go on the air, but the reason why is'cause I've done it a million times

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

an exaggeration, but thousands and thousands and thousands of times. Um, but I think that the lesson learned here is just that, certainly in baseball. It is a sport of failure. The best hitters are successful 30% of the time. You have to manage failure moment to moment at bat, to at bat, day to day, and understand that what happened yesterday should have no bearing on what happens today. And I think that, you know, you go into that big meeting as a CEO or, or, or maybe you're a, you know, a startup, an entrepreneur, and you're making that big pitch. Uh. We oftentimes think that if we don't get it or we fail, that that it all is coming to an end. And I think the lesson you can learn from baseball is there will be other opportunities. And

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm,

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

want to get it right, but if you don't learn from it, move on and go to the next one.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

and, and is that managing failure, is that mindset, is that resilience? Is that where you place your focus? What is, how, how do you, how do you do that?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

That's the million dollar question or whatever the value is on that. I guess

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

I.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

would be even more than that with what these guys get paid. You know, all nowadays have access to mental coaches, mindfulness. Most of them nowadays, meditate. Um. And they're not afraid to admit that versus in the past that would not meditating. I'd be tough for that, right? I mean, like this generation of ball players are, are, uh, younger millennials and Gen Z, this is the way they've been raised. They understand all of this. I mean, to your question, Emily, I think it's both and I, I think that, you know, resilience is always gonna be a factor for, for these guys. And no matter whether they are the most talented guy or the least talented guy on the team. all made it to where they're at due to resilience.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Okay.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

that mindfulness can help lead to the resilience. That mental strength can lead to that resilience because otherwise you're beating yourself up every single moment. And oh, by the way, imagine being a, a younger guy that's trying to find his way and, and every time you make it to the big leagues, you're sort of looking over your shoulder thinking, if I don't get it right

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

that might send me back to the minor leagues. And eventually, like, we got a guy up right now that's done that back and forth and back and forth, and, and you have a number of years where until you earn the right to stay. They can send you back as many times as they want. And here's a guy that thought, all right, he's up for a couple weeks until this guy isn't injured anymore. And then he might go back.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Ah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

But somebody else, they sent somebody else out'cause he was struggling and now he's playing every day and he's doing well. And it's like, he said to me the other day, he said, I can't control whether they send me back or not. So I'm just gonna go play and do what I can do and, and I

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

control that part. And it's the good old control, the controllable mindset. one thing to say it, it's another thing to believe it.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

I know is like easier for me to say than for them to do. And, and once they figure that out, maybe if you stop war, like for me, early in my career, I felt like every step I got in television, mind. Automatically shifted to what's the next step. You know, I started in a small town in Wisconsin. How do I get to the next biggest city? Then I get to Madison, Wisconsin, which is where I've gone to college. Great. I made it back here. How do I get to the next step? Then I made it to St. Louis. Okay, how do I get more airtime? Then I made it to the regional sports. Well, how do I get the guy that does this every single day? And then I got to Kansas City and at a certain point I said. I think this is the job that I always wanted. I didn't know what it was, and I stopped thinking about it, and I stopped being nervous and stopped putting pressure on myself. It took me a lot of years to get there.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yes, for sure. So, um. You talk about your book, small Actions, big Results. This show is called Leveraging Leadership. So we try to find our points of, of greatest, uh, leverage so we can best in influence and impact those around us. So, um, I'm sure in baseball there's dozens and hundreds of little things that you just do consistently over time that add up to, and it might be, I don't, I'm just making this up like. Wrist placement or like put your foot like at this angle when you're at bat and to swing and, and it swings so much better. Uh, you know it better than I, what are some of the small things that people can do to make a big difference?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

There's so much and, and, and it's gonna be different for every guy, and they're all wired differently mentally.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

What works for one might not work for the other. One guy may love to dive deep into the analytics and the next guy may say, this is too much for

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Ah, yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

too much. Uh, there's an old expression of sea ball hit ball, and the the simple answer to that is stop thinking. the greatest royal in, in history, Kansas City Royals, George Brett, who was one of the great hitters in the history of the game, and he had a a saying where he said, try easier. Well, that's really a lot easier said than done, right? Uh, I mean, like, how do you quote unquote, try easier when you're putting pressure on yourself and what's the human nature when you're trying to hit a home run is to swing harder.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

what they're saying is don't try to swing for the home run. Think about anything in life, right? You really want that next big job. And, and, and when you want it too badly, or maybe you're trying to, you know, you're in the dating world and it's like, how come you always find it when you're not looking right? Because you're not trying so hard and you're, you're just being yourself. And so when you mentioned the little, just the little thing, uh, and I'm not good enough to notice some of the things that my colleagues, my teammates, my analysts that played at the highest level can spot that. Ooh, look at, look at the way the toe is pointed. Look at the way the elbow comes out a little bit. Boy, if he were to change this, like for anyone out there that golfs, and I don't, maybe once a year for a charity event or something terrible, if you golf and you go to the driving range, you understand that it's every tiny little thing. The cool thing is where we're at nowadays, uh, and everybody can relate to this with technology, the amount of data and feedback that they have on every little single step they take is all there for them to analyze and they've got people to help them analyze it. what about someone that has struggled with the swing because it's been exposed by the other, I mean, the scouting reports out there, Emily, on there's no secrets and, and so the goal of the opposing team in the picture is to completely take advantage of your weaknesses and find them. So you finally figured it all out and now they're finding a way to beat you. Now you gotta go back. Change things. Well, is it just a different philosophy? Is it a different strategy? Or is something out of whack that they're exposing? And how do you find it? And so it's a constant chess match for every single one of these guys. And sometimes it's just the tiniest little thing and then you figure it out and it's working in the batting cage and it's working during batting practice, but now they're gonna come out there and start throwing a hundred at you or, or all the, the good stuff. And it's a little bit different in front of 30,000 or 40,000.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

goodness.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

And, and now you're oh, for four and you, and again and again and again. And the danger of going to the mind was like, this is the plight. This is the challenge that they're up against every single day. So they have more tools and data and research and everything, from nutrition to, to workouts, to game plan, um, to tendencies. And somehow you gotta figure out how to make it right every single day. So they're, they're doing all that. But I think the best of them too, like have a routine. think that that's the way I would sum this all up, that every one of them has a routine and they're all different. And this guy needs to spend X amount of time in the weight room and this guy needs to be eating right and this guy needs to not do as much, and this guy's doing not enough and on and on and on.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

And I think building that routine though, and and building a customized routine for you is something that, you know, we can translate into the business world. And I wanna hear more about what you talk about. Uh, it at your keynotes in onsite trainings about what you've learned in baseball to business. But I mean, just, uh, I was talking to someone the other day and it was understanding the effect that things have on you and the context with social media. So social media is great. We're connected, all this stuff, but you have to understand the effect it has on you. If you, if you doom scroll, does that make you angry? Does that make you more informed? Does that, is that like a calm down, let me just relax and like, sit on the couch and scroll through things like know the effect it has on you, and then build your routine of like how you're gonna use that, if at all. Um, for what you need to accomplish and what results you wanna get. That's just a small example that came to mind, but there's, there's so much more. But what are some things that you talk about in, uh, in your keynotes when you're in front of people?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

First thing, just real quick to, to piggyback off of what you said, I mean, I, I'm constantly learning what the social media aspect of it too.'cause I'm, I understand the dangers of it. I've been around long enough. I've built a big social media following, and, and I, you know, I got that, those dopamine hits from the, from the likes and the comments. But I, I've come to realize, and, and the, the, the platform I built up more than anything was Twitter. Well, Twitter's not today what it was back then. And so I may still have 80 something, 90,000 people following me. The comments and what goes on there is totally different than it used to be. And I come, I've come to understand now there's, there's almost zero value in me looking at what people say.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

know, that's so against who I am as a person because I love interaction and I love building relationships and connectivity. came to understand that, for instance, last night, I interview our star of the game and he's a guy that I wrote about in my, in my most recent book, small Ball, big Dreams, incredible story of. Uh, uh, of resilience and adversity and, and no one giving him a chance. And at 19 years old, Kansas City says, well, we'll, we'll let you here at our academy in the Dominican and work out with the team, but we don't have a spot for you. And they suddenly realize. This guy's better than anyone at that position. And now he wins the game for him last night, 10 years later, he is the backup to the star on the team. But he plays a lot. He's beloved and I interview him and, and he's really, really working hard on his English, but it's not perfect. And, but he's willing to do it without a translator and he's got heart. And I did that and I was so, I was proud of him. It was a great moment. uh, the fans were chanting his name like, so cool. And I get somebody on Twitter that says. don't know why you interviewed him so long. His English is bad. And and why would you expose him to that? And it, and like bit of me wanted to be like, I want to say something nasty to this guy, or at least say something really nice to him and say like, Hey, I'm trying to elevate someone here and what a cool story. Or share it with everybody else and let them jump on him. And I just checked myself. I caught myself. I'm like, this is why you don't look at this stuff because it got me. It's a total waste of my time. And so that, that, that just popped in my head.'cause it just happened last night. And it's like, I tell our young players all the time, not that it's my job counsel them, but I feel like I've been around long enough that if I could just share, like, Hey, tell your family not to look at that stuff. Or if they do, share it with you. Like, like, you know, it's not good for you. But anyway,

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

But you caught yourself, like at that moment you caught yourself, where like you can spend the next two hours like fuming over that. Um, but I mean. Just, just build routines that work for you. I mean, like morning routines are huge. I'm sure like people on the team have like training and different things they need and it's, it might be for different positions. You need different things. And I've had like my own personal journey with like morning routines. I was like, I have to make myself part of the 5:00 AM club when that was a huge thing. And I am, I'm just not, I'm like maybe the 6:00 AM club, uh, sometimes the 5:30 AM club, but not, I can't, I'm not the 5:00 AM club. Um, but make, make it what works for you. So, uh. So, yes.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Yeah, not, uh, part of the 5:00 AM club hopefully ever. Um, but you know, I'm a guy that works till, you know, 10, 11 at night. So,

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yep.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

part of the like 8:00 AM club. I, I, I am at an age where I can't sleep beyond that. Uh, wish I could. I, I think, you know, some of the things that I tell audiences, you know, so much of, of what I'm speaking about and I've got multiple topics, is trust, relationship, team building, uh, among others I, is that you have a chance single day in whatever your profession is to further those relationships. And, and one of the things that I really like to share with people, I mean everything that we've been talking about is that that you encounter. probably as busy, if not busier than you, and under as much pressure or more pressure than you, uh, is going through stuff, personal and professional just like you. And so having that empathy and that understanding that, that everyone is up against it in some form or another, and whether they are the most laid back and casual person, or whether they're uptight. they're up against it. They are. And, and if they're not, they're, maybe they're on vacation and they don't wanna be bothered. Right. I mean, but like, everybody's under pressure in some form or another. It doesn't matter whether you're someone in front of the camera or whether you're behind the scenes, or whether you're the superstar of the company or whether you're the accountant. Uh, uh, whatever. You know, I'm, I'm coming up with whatever title, but I think that there is a skill and an ability. And this helps in relationship, trust, uh, teamwork, uh, any type of team, any profession is do you have the ability to, read the room and to understand when the right wrong time are?

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

I'll just take you into my world. If a six 40 game, as there is for me tonight, the. We're gonna get an update of what time the clubhouse, the locker room opens for open media time. Uh, today. That's 2 55, so it'll be like 2 55 to 3 45. Then the manager will be available sometime after four for everybody to get in. I can walk into the clubhouse at 2 55 I can have an agenda. I want to talk to these guys or find whoever it is. Or it may not even be a soundbite or an interview. I may just want to go pick someone's brain, for a story that I could tell during the game, or I may just want to connect with someone. A player yesterday said to me, Hey, are you watching so-and-so show? And I don't know why he asked me that. Maybe he walked by me on the plane and saw me watching it. I don't know. And I'm like, I'm just starting it. Have you watched it? Yeah. Uh, how is it? It's great. Alright. I'm gonna start it later this week. I just was watching a preview of it. Let me know what you do. We can talk about it. I'm like, Ooh, that's a cool opportunity for me to touch base. So you never know what you're gonna stumble into. But what I do know is this, that when I walk in there, if I see a guy that looks busy, occupied, stressed, he's in the middle of another conversation. If I wanna go and stop him from that or interrupt that or not take those social cues, then. That puts'em in a tough spot of having to tell me, I don't have time right now. And, and for the most part, people are not comfortable with No. Or having to deal with, you know, to, to do rejection. It's a lot easier to read that and take them off of the hook.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Hmm.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

to me, I have this mantra that every time I walk into the clubhouse, I don't want guys walking the other way, which means if I walk up to someone asking for an interview, I'm rarely gonna walk up there with, with my cameraman next to me in a microphone. Because now they might need to look and be like, I don't have time. I'm gonna walk up and ask for permission first.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Uh.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

have a moment? Maybe they're a veteran player and they've been around a long time, and I understand that they don't wanna deal with extra distractions or they know better. So I'm gonna say, Hey, there's a ton of media in here right now. Um, they may all follow me over here because I, I'll make a joke. I'm the old guy that's been around forever. Um, I only have, I only need one minute. it could turn into five to 10. Are you okay with that? You wanna go outside and do it privately? I'm always gonna make sure that they feel like I am looking out for them.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Ah, yes.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

And if I do that every single day, and this is not just a TV thing, it's this is a leadership thing. This is whoever you are, if you are looking out for the person that you are dealing with and they start to get that over time, they will come back to you almost every single time. And that's what I try to do every single day.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

And I think that that is more important than the quick viral clip that you might get.'cause then you burn that relationship long term. Um, I'm switching sports here, but I was watching kind of a behind the scenes, uh, feature on it was Aaron Andrews. So NFL. Aaron Andrews and then she was interviewing, I think it was Patrick Mahomes, but it was kind of the B roll before they were on the air. And she was asking, I think he was about to have his second kid or something, you know, can I say this? Um, and he says, don't, don't say it's tomorrow. Say it's coming soon. And we're excited and just, just kind of her quick banter about how to set up that conversation. And I'm like, oh. That's definitely what you're talking about and making them feel comfortable and, Hey, I got your back. I'm not gonna expose anything you don't want talked about. But then of course they're gonna come back to you and they're like, Joel, like, okay, you're, you're trustworthy, you're my guy. Uh, you can pick up on cues and it builds that relationship long term. I.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

And let's take it a step further. I don't know, Erin, too. Uh, I don't wanna say too well, I've met Erin. It's been years, uh, when she was doing some baseball and I would see her on the sideline and, um, found her to be, you know, incredibly engaging. But, but I was always impressed with the way she connected. With the players and the story that you just said about Mahomes is a great one because, let's take it a step further. Let, let's say that she doesn't ask or go over that and she doesn't have to, she could do it. suddenly she gives more information than they wanted out there. And maybe Patrick doesn't care, maybe he does, but maybe his wife cares and

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

he saw it or family saw it, and now you got a game of telephone going on and it might not even be totally accurate, but somebody's mad and they've exaggerated it. Now it gets back to Patrick and now he's annoyed and now he's not sure that he could trust her. That is someone that, that, without knowing Aaron. Much at all. And she wouldn't know me, but back in the day we'd say, hi, uh, that is someone that gets it, you know? And Erin Andrews is as good as it gets and, and has as much, um, you know, name recognition. And then she's had a lot of national fame and, and worked hard for it, but she could throw that away in a heartbeat. And, and a lot of people will just to get that one. Big click or that one sensational piece. Um, and I would argue that you can get that big click by doing things the right way and continue to get those over and over again because you know what? When the wife trusts you, when the mom trusts you, when the dad trusts you. And now when Patrick or our star, Bobby Wood Jr. Goes home and, and Bobby's 24 and probably the second or third best player in all of baseball at a young age when he goes home and his wife's like, oh, you know, Joel did a great job, uh, you know, bringing the best out on you. Or his parents say, Hey, I really like the way he goes about that.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

now he's not having whatever his perception is of me, it's not being clouded by, well, I think I like him, or I'm not sure if I like him, but, uh, my family doesn't like him. Well, who do you trust? You trust the people closest to you?

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Yeah. All right. Final words of wisdom here on any, like, any for broadcasting, for, for managing, a schedule, for keynoting, anything, any words of wisdom or advice you wanna leave people with?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Well, the one that I always love to sum it up with came from the previous owner of the Kansas City Royals. Who passed away in of 2020. I always like to at 83 years old. So we lived a great, great life, humble beginnings. Name of David Glass and I grew up in southwest Missouri. Went on to be the CEO of Walmart. I always say if you are the person that that came up with, the concept in idea of putting a grocery store in a Walmart, in all Walmarts, you probably did really well. He went on to own the Kansas City Royals and I made a a smart decision to sell the team. Uh, about three months before he passed away for a billion dollars and about five months before a pandemic. So I feel like Mr. Glass had an idea what he was doing, but his final ever interview with me and we knew that, that he was at the end of his tenure as the royals owner. Didn't know that he was gonna pass a few months later, although he, he looked sick, but told me No, I'm fine. I'm fine. I dunno if I believe it or not, but, okay. And, uh, he says in the interview to. Everything we do in life is about people, whether it's baseball or business. Everything we do in life is about people. And he was reflecting on having won a world championship at a small market in 2015 and getting the people part of it, right? And so I feel like I'm in the people business before the baseball business. You're in the people business. If you're a chief of staff, you're definitely in the people business. And so that's where all of this comes in. And to me. Baseball, which happens to scratch an incredible passion of mine for sports. And it could have been baseball or football or hockey or basketball or a bunch of others. Um, but, but I'm glad it's baseball that I love it. I love going to work every single day. But that gives me this tool, this teaching tool, this platform to be able to, to dig deeper outside of sports. And so that's the common bond. It's all about people and building teams.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

I love that. And if people wanna find, find you, Joel, during the off season. Uh. Can you tell people where to find you and kind of what you do, keynotes and all the rest of that stuff?

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Yeah, and and they could certainly find me in season too. It's just a

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Okay.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

of.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Sure.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

A great keynote, uh, but the website's, joel goldberg media.com. I'm on social media everywhere, but joel goldberg media.com will get you to the speaking, the books, the videos, the, you know, everything, the content and the, and the context as well. There really four keynotes. The one, uh, is on Winning Trust. That's the title of that one. The second one is, is a Culture speech that those two are, are similar, so it's kind of one or the other. The third one is on, um, generations in the workplace. And, and I feel like I'm well positioned to talk about that as a 50 something year old, covering 20 something year olds now, and I've gotta figure it out because they don't, uh, that's, that's, um, that's on me. And the fourth one, which is really related to the, the most recent book, small Ball, big Dreams, is about grit and resilience.

emily-sander_1_04-23-2025_113242:

Beautiful. We'll have all that in the show notes, but Joel, thank you so much for being on.

joel-goldberg_1_04-23-2025_133242:

Thanks, Emily. I appreciate it.