Leveraging Leadership
Are you ready to up your leadership game? Tune in to Leveraging Leadership, where Chiefs of Staff, executives, and business professionals find the tools, strategies, and insights they need to excel. Hosted by Emily Sander, a C-suite executive turned leadership coach, this podcast delivers practical and tactical takeaways every week.
Whether you're tackling tough conversations, fine-tuning your KPIs, or mastering delegation, this show offers new perspectives and actionable advice to help you feel confident and thrive in your role.
Each Monday, enjoy interviews with leaders from diverse fields—primarily business, but also from military, politics, and higher education. Every Wednesday, catch a solo episode where Emily shares concise, actionable insights on a specific topic you can apply immediately.
If you appreciate relatable, informal conversations that pack a punch with no fluff, you’re in the right place. While especially valuable for Chiefs of Staff and their Principals, the insights are useful for any leader aiming to grow.
Don’t miss your chance to advance as a leader.
Leveraging Leadership
From Helpless to Hopeful: Leading Teams with Accurate Data and a Progress Mindset
This episode talks about moving teams from feeling stuck to making progress by first getting accurate data. Emily Sander shares an example of advising a Chief of Staff to use surveys to clarify vague complaints about “culture problems” and explains how gathering real feedback, instead of just venting, can lead to informed action on issues like PTO policies. The message is to focus on what you can control and collect solid info before trying to fix anything.
Want help getting data points? Book a clarity call w/ Emily here.
Who Am I?
If we haven’t yet before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:47 Shifting Mindsets: From Fix It to Progress
01:11 Case Study: Addressing Culture Problems
02:58 Mindset Matters: Accurate Data in Thoughts
04:19 Taking Ownership and Making Progress
07:17 Empowering Teams: Changing the Narrative
12:13 Concluding Thoughts: Empowerment Through Data
Have you ever led a team that is so overwhelmed they just stop taking action altogether? When a team thinks that the fix to their problem or the fix to their situation is impossible or out of their control, it feels pointless. So let's talk about shifting them from helpless to hopeful and getting them moving again. so the main shift I wanna talk about here is going from a fix it mindset to a progress mindset. And more specifically to start with an accurate data mindset. So we're going from fix it. Fix the problem. Let's make some progress here. And first of all, let's start by getting some accurate data. Going. Okay. Accurate data. This can mean like actual data. So let's say, uh, I was just talking with the chief of staff the other day who was like, we have a culture problem and people feel like the solution to the culture problem everyone's, bitching and moaning about is out of our control. And it's being derived by decisions made at a more senior level and then we're just like reaping the negative downstream impacts of that. So. I said, why don't you take a survey? Why don't you actually take a survey to your managers rank and file folks to as many people across the company as you can, and collect some data, like actually get some data on is this, is the culture bad? Is it bad in some pockets? Is it bad this way? Is it bad that way? Like what are we talking about here? There's this blanket kind of comment or story arc or narrative around like, the culture is horrible and it's terrible. Like fix it. And it's like, okay, well. Like, what exactly are we quote unquote fixing? Um, if we can't quote unquote fix it all in one fail swoop, can we make progress on it in certain areas or certain pockets of our influence if it's not all within our influence? And to start with like, what are we actually talking about? What are, what are we actually talking culture like, cultural problem. Uh, great. That can mean one of like a thousand different things. So the tactical piece in this conversation was like, let's start with a survey and we kind of crafted some, some different ways to do a survey, different ways to roll it out. What types of questions would we ask? How would we front run that with the team and kind of get their buy and get their input, and then have them be able to tee up that talk track to their team members, all these things, et cetera, et cetera. But it went from. Hey team, fix the culture problem. Jeez, oed O'Malley, like, fix the fricking culture problem to Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. let's get some data so we know what actual starting points make sense? Okay. Accurate data can also be mindset. So what's happening in between your ears, right? So, okay. If you have a story and a narrative that you've been telling yourself over and over and over again, like God, like those people up there, like those so and sos, if they just did this, then it would fix everything. I'm, I can't do anything. I'm stuck here. Literally I have my hands tied behind my back. Um. By the way, pet peeve of mine, people misuse the word literally a whole bunch in our language today. If you literally had your hands tied behind your back, you would have like rope or some type of zip tie or a handcuff or whatever other method you would use to get your hands tied behind your back. Most people aren't literally having their hands tied behind their back, um, but they say it like that. Anyway, sidebar rant over. Um. You might very well be working within a certain environment or, Hey, look, if our PTO policy or whatever is mandated at a company level in this way, maybe that's what you're working within. Okay? Within that, there's probably flexibility and room to move. But if you're saying like, Nope, nope, not on me, not on me, not up to me. I don't wanna take any control of that. I don't wanna take any ownership of that. They just need to fix it. And I'll just bitch with people and we'll, that's like, mm, what whatcha are you doing? Like, whatcha doing? Really? Can you make some progress? Within the environment you're working under most of the time. You can, most of the time people can, not always, but most of the time people can. Um, now there is a, to me, there's a stronger argument of is the progress I'm able to make. Within these constraints worthwhile? I mean, like, technically in an absolute value way, I could make some technical progress, but is that actually gonna be meaningful to people? Is that actually gonna be, um, a positive impact or is it almost gonna be insulting in the sense of I can do so little? There's conversations around that, but for people just to like throw their hands at people, like, Nope, I can't do nothing. It's not my fault. I, like, I have little patience for, um, that's just my personal opinion. So get some accurate data. Okay. We do have this PTO policy. Alright. If I stand back and think about it, what is under my control? I don't agree with this. The team is very upset with this. Hmm. Alright. Does my boss know about this or do I just complain about it with my team? Does my boss know the impact it's having on our team members and the workflows and the productivity and the impact or response time to customers or the, I don't know, downtime of certain systems or whatever? Do they know the impact? Are you telling that to them? In a way that they can understand and possibly pass up the chain, so to speak, to their bosses who might be able to actually change this policy. Are you giving them the quantifiable? Here's the stats, here's the statistics. Here is the email from the client. Here is like the map of the workflow and an easy to understand visual. And here's my anecdotal report out of how this is going for the team. Are you conveying that information in a professional, helpful way? Instead of just complaining about it. So, uh, if you haven't, by the way, in this scenario collected that actual data, you're just going off, what two of the noisiest team members you have on your team are saying like, bababababa, PTO, fix it, fix it, fix it. If you're just going off that and you haven't actually collected the accurate data from your team, then that's on you. That's on you. So I would go and collect the accurate data. And you might go, oh, hold on, wait a minute. I don't even have to go to my boss. Within the dialogue and conversations of my team, I have lots of room for progress. Let, let me, let me help them understand. The PTO policy isn't saying that it's not constraining you in that way. It's saying this, you actually can do what you're asking to do. Maybe you can do it three days a week, not five days a week, but hold on. Like, you're, you're not, let me, let me help you. Uh. Clarify this for you, that might be something you can do within the sphere of your influence. Right. Okay. So accurate data, what progress can be made? So we're moving from like fix the problem to progress, to collecting accurate data. Um, many times I will coach chiefs of staff on changing the narrative. With their team.'cause the team will be like so burnt out and maybe for good reason where it's like we just get, we, we, we've collected the data, we've shown this stuff in an easy underweight to understand. We've told them anecdotal feedback over and over and over again. It falls on deaf ears. We get slapped on the wrists for even bringing it up type of thing. So they might be in that position. So, in these types of conversations, I coach so many chiefs of staff who are trying to, trying to infuse their team with like, Hey, like don't just be hopeless. Don't just sit there like a bump on a log. I know that stuff is rough in certain areas, but changing that narrative to a, let's make some progress. What is under our control? That's a more empowering position to be in, right? Than this stuff is happening to me. It's just closing in all around me to, wait a minute, this is under my control. It might be a little bit, it might be not as broad in scope as I want, but this is under my control. This is always under my control. Okay. Okay. Got it. So I do have influence here. Okay. And you know what? It takes some work to collect and pass this feedback through. Um. But that does seem to be getting through to people after the first, second, third time we've delivered information like this. It's actionable information. It's real intel versus just kind of saying it in a, in. You know, and a, I'm gonna sigh and say as an aside, like as an aside, like, I mean the PTO policy like sucks, but whatever. Like Yeah, yeah. We can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This, this, and this. If you actually like, Hey, like PTO policy, not going down, well, here's the information. Here's what I would love to be passed on and just known by the leadership team or the upper leadership team or whatever. You do that a couple times and then you hear back, okay, they're actually considering this, they're actually putting this on the docket for their next onsite. Um, or they're actually taking it to HR and saying, Hey, what are our options here? If we made this change in policy, how would that affect different groups? That's progress. That's progress. That's also something you can pass back to your team, right? So progress on both ends. Um, so I think just changing the sentiment and the conversation around. Let's just dig our heels in and be unhappy about this too. Like what? What can we do here? It's kind of like, what do you own, like owning the influence you do have, like own the influence you do have.'cause you probably have more than you think. and you also can, if you take the blinders off, most people unnecessarily constrain themselves. They make themselves smaller than they actual are or make their sphere of influence smaller than they, than it actually is. So let's name what's actually in our control and let's have our team name what's actually in their control. That can be at an individual level or a collective level, right? So within your control, like you can get some accurate feedback from your team. You can bring that to our little group here, and then we can collectively figure out the best way to deliver that up to the powers that be. Um, ooh. And I like a meta thing about this is. If you deliver that feedback about the PTO policy and they're like, no, no, we're gonna keep, no, no, we're gonna keep it the same way. That is also collecting important data points. Alright? We've set our piece, we've shown them data. It's clear from our perspective, this is a detriment for our team members, for the customers, et cetera. And they continue to say no. The nos are data points in themselves. The No are data points in themselves, and it helps you as a leadership team and your team members and the managers rank and file folks, it helps them make informed decisions, right? Because at the end of the day, if you're really, really constrained, and it is like Emily, it's not just me, it's not whatever. We have these conversations and you're in a situation where you are immovable, you're like a bounded pigeon and you can't do anything. Then you need to know that that's your environment and then make the appropriate or relevant decisions from there. It might be, crap, I have to stay here because for two more years I gotta pay off, you know, college tuition or whatever. Um, but it could be like, you know what? I don't need this. Um, it's too much trouble than it's worth. It's familiar, but at this point, I'm willing to take the jump or whatever you need to make that decision in an informed way. I wouldn't just make a knee jerk decision and be like, oh crap, grass isn't greener. And actually, like, I had more leeway over here than I thought. I just never tried. But if you have, and you've gone to the extent you can and you get these data points back, that's good for you. Just in a pure like. Collect data points, collect information level, any more information you can get is positive. Okay? They said, no, let's do it one more time. Let's do it this way. They said, no, all right. We have this, uh, team meeting with, you know, my boss's boss. Let's throw it out there. Let's be professional. Let's throw the data, but let's make our case. Wait. Be patient. And they said no. Okay. Important data points to collect. So So I think sometimes the fix it, fix it. Now this big, amorphous, nebulous problem can be super overwhelming and people have so many other things they're doing at the same time and it just, people can like just get so overwhelmed and numbed out. They just stop and you're like, I don't, I don't even care. I don't even care. This is pointless. Sure. Whatever. I don't care. Just do it. I don't care. And if you can flip that to, okay, here's what we can control. Uh, let's just go collect some information. We're not making any decisions yet. Our job is just to collect some data points and then we're gonna look at them. And that's it. That can be like, oh, okay. I mean, it doesn't solve anything per se, but I can do that. I, I can collect data points. Yeah, no problem. I can do that. Let's do that. Let's do that and take a look and see what we have. I think that's a much, that can be a much more empowering and also specific thing to go and do. Okay. So hopefully that has been helpful and I will catch you next week on leveraging leadership.