Leveraging Leadership

Practical Ways to Protect Your Time and Energy

• Jessa Estenzo • Season 1 • Episode 239

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Emily Sander and Sophia Mikelionis talk about practical self-leadership for Chiefs of Staff, covering how to build microhabits like walking during phone meetings, using a regular coffee mug instead of an insulated cup to encourage breaks, and putting your phone to bed at night to unwind. They discuss the importance of protecting your energy, setting boundaries, and remembering basic human needs like sleep, food, and water. Sophia Mikelionis also shares tips for identifying moments that make you happiest, even outside of work, as a way to realign your efforts and prevent burnout.

Links Mentioned:
Sophia Mikelionis’ YouTube Channel
Email Sophia Mikelionis


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Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.

Timestamps:
01:28 Understanding Self-Leadership
02:20 Practical Tips for Self-Care
03:25 The Importance of Small Habits
05:52 Mindset Shifts for Self-Leadership
10:47 Creating Boundaries and Protecting Energy
16:14 Micro Habits and Practical Exercises
21:05 The Game Changer: Turning Off Email Notifications
21:46 Creating a Morning Routine
25:02 Breaking the Cycle of Bad Habits
31:08 The Importance of Hobbies
35:40 Conclusion and Contact Information

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Today. I am joined by Sophia Michelon, and we are gonna talk about self-leadership, about managing time and energy, and overcoming that feeling when just not doing enough or you're not enough and how to work through that. But, uh, Sophia, welcome to

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Hello. Thanks for having me.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Beautiful. And, uh, for folks who are just meeting you, might not know you. Um, how would you describe who you are and what you

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Ooh. Um, so I climbed the ranks in corporate, loved it, but somehow I lost myself and I burned out. I took a quiet sabbatical and that's when I realized that my superpower was helping other people recognize burnout symptoms. So that way they can prevent it without quitting their job, without going to live on a mountain somewhere. So trying to talk through some of these things that we see and experience, but we keep it bottled up because who wants to be the complainer in the office? You know?

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Right. Yeah. Let me raise my hand and say I'm burnt out. Can I? Yeah. That's not the popular

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

No.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Um, but I like in your body of work, how you frame it as self-leadership, which, you know, as. Chiefs of staff listening. We're all about leadership and leadership teams and leadership presence and kind of board executive, all this stuff, different stuff, but often we forget about ourselves. So I think framing it as in we're gotta lead ourselves first before we lead. Anyone else is a good way to go about it.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Absolutely. And I, I feel like, um, chiefs of staff are most susceptible because you lead through self-sacrifice, right? Like you don't need a lunch because you need to prep the notes on the deck, so that way your leader or your C-Suite can look great, or you need to double check all of the pages in the. To make sure that it's flawless. So that's why I'm happy we're having this conversation'cause we don't talk about it enough.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. What, what are some other main components about self-leadership? Just to kind of get people in the ballpark and get people directed in the right area.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

So yes, we kill it as far as leading projects and leading other people, and even leading our families. Right? But how do you show up for yourself consistently? How do you protect your energy and. Often it comes from awareness, like looking at your calendar and understanding what is going to drain your energy, what is going to build you up, and then weaving in small habits, small ways to recharge along the way. So that way your personal values, your personal needs don't get overlooked. And I think a really good example of that is, um. Often, I think we've all been in meetings where we beg for a bio break. Can we please have a bio break? Right? Because you wake up in the morning, you look at your calendar, oh, there's plenty of space to eat lunch and to.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Mm. No. No,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Right, and then meet a new meeting pops on, and then you need to prep for the meeting, and then there are revisions to the meeting. And then secretly your bladder, you are begging for a bio break. Right? So I want us to put little breaks or little ways that we renew ourselves into our week that aren't a, it isn't a heavy lift because it's, it's so tiny, but it adds so it's, it's so small, but it adds such a large impact that it's, it's a no brainer.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah, that's example, that example's funny'cause I had a coaching client who said, Emily, one of the things I like about coaching is it's a guilt-free bio break. And I'm like, oh

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Wow. Is the bar that low?

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yes, but it is for a lot of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

And I remember as chief of staff, I, um, I would sit for like 10 hours straight. And that's not, your body's not meant to

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Right.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

So I was like, Emily, gotta get yourself up and walk around the block. And so I changed one internal meeting to be on the phone versus on Zoom. On

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

And so I would just take that meeting and take a walk around the block and that was my cue to like get up and just move at least once in the day. So I

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

kind of. Kind of micro habit and, and I don't know if you have any more of those, but people are probably going, okay, I'm picking up what you're laying down, Sophia. Tell me more of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Let me just throw one more out there. That is really helpful. Um, you know those, um, insulated cups that keep your beverage warm for like eight hours or keeps it chilled for eight hours? I would not use those as frequently. I, I would get rid of it if possible, and instead change to a mug. A coffee mug. So that way not only can you feel the warmth around the mug, it it causes you to pause, it causes, it gives you space to think just the, just the temperature change because you can actually feel it. And then on top of that, we don't realize that that insulated cup is keeping us tethered, kind of like a ball and chain to our desk. So you mentioned like a, a walk and talk meeting or a meeting that could be on the phone. So sometimes it's, it's. This, this little change that gives you permission or a little annoyance that's like, man, I gotta get up my coffee's cold. Or I have to stop working on that. Like my, like my tea, like what happened to it? So those little small habits I like to throw out there'cause they're, they're very practical.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

like that. Yeah. Yeah. I have, you know, I have a coffee or tea going and when I, when it gets cool, I have to get up and go refill it and warm it up, warm it up with hot water again. Um, so I think that's one good to get you up. But it also will, um, eventually become the bio break

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

you know, kind of do that thing. It'll make you get up again. So I think the circle of life can help you here. Um, What are some mindset pieces? Self-leadership because chiefs of staff, by

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Mm-hmm.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

and they'll self-sacrifice for others. I'm behind the scenes. My job is to make my principal and make my executive leadership team shine, and then we, we, we burn to a crisp and go, oh, no, what happened? But there's a, there's a common phrase that I get, have you heard this in coaching? Where it's like, well, like, well, I, I can't do that for myself'cause then I won't be there for other people. I'll let other people

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah. Yeah, I hear that one. And what I would challenge, what I would challenge with that thought process is, um, what's in your cup. You know how people say, like, you can't pour for an empty cup, right? But often we think about deliverables, right? Like, I need to have the backup slides to the slides, to the appendix, like all those things in the, in the pipeline or in the cup. But if you think of yourself as a leader. What is in your cup? Because if you were running around ragged, that's kind of what you're sharing. That's what you're, that's what you're presenting out to the world. Maybe not to your principal, but to your teams, to your peers, to the people who work cross-functionally with you. So what are you doing intentionally to fill your cup? And that's why I talk about like a small habit or a small way to reclaim your time. Because having. Two minutes to, you know, just to let your mind roam and to let your gaze shift. It gives your mind space to be creative, to actually think about a different way to solve that problem, right? And it also helps you be a better leader to yourself instead of always being frazzled. So I would, I would challenge you to think about it as a cup and what are you pouring into it? Are, are you going to bed at a consistent time? Are you eating healthy meals? Are you eating meals like. Yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Are you eating at all?

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah. These small things. So yes, it, it's, yes, you wanna be there for other people, but just like an airplane, you have to put your oxygen mask on first. And the only way you can do that in this world that is on the 24 hour news cycle is by setting up, carving out little ways to stay closer to yourself.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. I think that people underestimate. Like how if I do this incremental thing, if I do this, I wanna go do this much. They underestimate. Like that's, uh, like, yeah, it's like technically better, but not like that much. You're kind of getting diminishing

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

versus if I took that

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

to recharge and go get a drink of water and

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

around the block, that will give you the bigger lift.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

that's more heavily weighted.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, I'm thinking about that person who's working on a deck, right? And you're in deep work mode, and then you look up and you're like, oh no, it's 10 o'clock. Well, if I could just keep pressing through, right? So let's just say you do press through, you do pull an all-nighter, right? But the next morning you're groggy. You're not showing up as your best self. So yeah, that little change, let me put a pin in this. Let me try to get up. Let me go to sleep. Let me try to get up earlier so that way I can have fresh eyes. You're showing up as your best self and you've given your whole, your mind and your body the opportunity to recharge along the way. So yes, it's a small shift that has a large impact and it feels counterintuitive. Let me just sit here and finish it till I'm done, but no, we're not machines. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

If you're past that point of diminishing returns, you have to be. Aware enough and, and wise enough to to, to call it like, Nope. Time. Okay, it's good enough. Let me go to bed. And by the way, this like reminds me, this whole conversation reminds me like, listeners, humans need some basic things. Sleep, water, food. Do they make the world like sparkling and beautiful and solve all your problems? No. But if you don't have them, like it gets

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

So do the basic things you need to do as a human is what I'm like getting from, from your tips and

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Absolutely. And it's so easy to just downplay those things like, yeah, I don't need sleep. I'll, I'll rest when I'm dead, or I'll really get rest on that vacation. But if we don't train ourselves with these little habits along the way, your body isn't accustomed to resting. Your body is accustomed to. Fire drill mode are always going, going, going. So then when you are on that dream vacation, your body doesn't know how to rest. It's not until what? The last day when you're like, oh, finally I was able to relax. And then it's back home.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

On the

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, and I think I like the mindset and approach of, you mentioned earlier, protecting your energy. So if you think about it, and a lot of chiefs of staff do this for their principal, they're like, let me

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

they don't have decision fatigue. Let me make sure they're only dealing with the things that they should be considering or looking at or reviewing. But they don't think about that for themselves. So think about like, how do I, protect but also. Maybe best deploy or best utilize my time and energy.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, I like that. And also, when it comes to boundaries, often we think about them in defense mode, right? I put on my boundary, I've had enough, or I can't do that. I'm gonna be seen as difficult. But instead, if you look at it as a circle. Right. Instead of a hard line, it's a circle and you're drawing a circle around those things that you need to survive. I need water, I need lunch. I need to walk away from, from my desk or from my screens. If you look at it from that way, like something you're trying to protect as a circle, it's easier to have those conversations with yourself first. Like, I, it's 10 o'clock, I need to go to bed. You know, or, or it's, it's first thing in the morning, like maybe I need some movement instead of just hopping right into the. Laptop, which is so close to the bed, I'm sure.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yes. Um, and I think that's important. I like that circle analogy because people like poo poo rules, but if you think about it, we put rules around things that are really important to us. Like if it's really important, we have like rules and boundaries around, around that. Um, so it's just circling. For yourself and others, like what's of high value to me? And then I think the other part that's coming out. Um, and, and like, just to expand on the rules thing, it's like I played sports growing up, right? So it's like I played basketball and soccer. If I take a basketball and like run without dribbling, then I'm not playing basketball anymore. But if you like the sport of basketball, if you like the beauty of the game and all of that, you're like, no, no, no. The rules say you gotta bounce the ball, type of thing. So we put rules, we have like umpires and

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

all these different things. That's just a quick example.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

But to your point, we need to have rules for ourselves. A lot of times people have like a list of non-negotiables and whatever those are. So let's just say we were talking about coffee, right? Because someone asked me like, Hey, what's one thing now that you appreciate as you kind of slow your pace and you build in these, you know, these little micro habits? And honestly, it's that cup of coffee. For me, my very first cup of coffee, I used to, I used to have my, my Keurig machine on a timer. Where as soon as I got up, it was right, it was time to my commute so that way I could grab it and go, and now I actually get up a little earlier so that way I can kind of like romanticize it, right? Like I'm doing French press coffee, I'm watching the water boil. I'm starting with some gratitude before I jump into the day and that's how I'm feeling my cup. That's how I am energizing myself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, yeah. Yeah. That's how I'm starting is I'm, I'm, I'm creating that rule for myself and to make the rule less abrasive. I'm romanticizing it. I'm thinking about, you know, like in the evening, I'm like, what, what am I gonna be grateful for in the morning, you know, as I watch and wait for the water to boil. So, I know it may seem like a hard pivot, like really, who's gonna slow down? I, I have things to do. I, you know, I have a principle to quote, unquote serve, but you have to look out for yourself and re begin to reclaim that time. Otherwise, burnout is, it's, it's a matter of time.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. Well, I think in all this, it's setting boundaries. It's doing the little things, the micro habits for yourself so that. You can better serve those

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yes.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

It's not self-serving. It's so that you are in best position to lead and you're, you're, you're, you're making high quality decisions instead of like, I'm frazzled, I'm tired, I'm stressed, and I'm gonna

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

about this team. Oh, oh, that's,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

you know, three weeks, three months down the line, that decision's not looking so great.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

It felt great at the time.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

It was

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

and I'm like, I gotta make a

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

But I think if, if, maybe we view it in, you're teeing yourself up or you're putting yourself in best position um, to show up in a positive way, to make high quality decisions, to have positive interactions versus short, cur, brief interactions with people, the, the quality of your presence and work product goes

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah. Yeah. And also it's, it's really difficult to think strategically, right? And to, to see all of the po you know, just to think strategically if you're always in go mode, if you're always. On the tactics and just being a doer, if you don't necessarily create space for the creativity to flow or to even space from the pro, from the problem, it's really hard to show up consistently as a strategic partner instead of just a, a fire, you know, someone who puts out fires.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I love that you said that because I have so many chiefs of staff who go, Emily, how do I become a more strategic leader? I wanna be a more strategic chief of staff and be thought of. I'm like, well, part of it is, part of it is gotta act

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

So if you're constantly in like operational doer mode, they're gonna, they're gonna see you and treat you as operational doer. And I love what you said about that because it, like, what I heard is at some point you have to the chain of what you've been doing. If you wanna go to that next level, it's kind of like the concept of what got you here won't get you there type of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And on top of that, we are often looking for our HR partners, our peers, or even our leaders, our senior leaders, to tap us on the shoulder and say, Hey, Emily, you, you did a lot. Go take a vacation. No one's going to save you. Yes, you're the hero, but you need to step up and carve out time for yourself to lead yourself, so that way you show up more effectively.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. I love these micro habits that you're throwing out there. Um, when you were describing something earlier, it reminded me of. I think it was called like stop and give me five or something. But it was going through all five of your senses and just picking up like, what am I hearing? And just pausing for like

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

what am I seeing? And like, like pen, I have a pen, pen, pen. And like really see the pen and eventually it'll whoosh bring you into the

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah, yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

the

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

in, where you're like, oh, I'm actually here for a second. I'm wondering if there's any

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Well, I really like that one because what would give me is of co I went to, I, I went to therapy, right? And my therapist was like, you just need to breathe in the moment. And I'm like, obviously I'm breathing. What are you telling me? You're not telling me anything new. So I like the five. How's the five senses? Or sometimes, um, if you take a walk, let's just say you do leave your desk, maybe you're walking on another floor. It's kind of like a rainbow walk where you're looking for something that's red, something that's orange, something that's yellow. It just helps you break that cycle, that go mode cycle. Um, and once you have it, you know, it's, it's probably been at least 60 seconds since you were, you know, in deep work mode or in this hole. You know, um, extra pressure, intense, uh, environment, and it helps you kind of step out of it and say, okay, let me, let me go refill my tea. Or, you know, let me shift, you know, shift to a different tab for now and I'll come back to it. So that's another one that I like.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah, I like the colors. That reminds me, um, someone, uh, a coach was saying. Every week pick a color

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

I.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

just look for like everything blue. And then next week everything red and then next week everything like white or whatever. And you just,'cause you're, you're looking at your space in a new way. And I was like, oh, that's so cool. I did it for a couple weeks. And you absolutely see

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Really,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

you didn't see

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

I jot that one down. I like that. Hmm.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I like that one too. What else can we come up with? Um, people love these. Like we're listener. We're tossing out different ideas. Take what works for you, try one. But I think this is great just to get a whole bunch of ideas out there to people. I have one where like I sit, I, um, sit at a computer and my shoulders cave

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

and so to kind of open.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Okay.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Open my

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

up. Uh, I do the, the doorway stretch so you can kind of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Oh.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

forearms on a door on the doorway and stretch it out. So every time I go through a certain door I can remember and like BQ to like, you know, do that stretch really quick. And that's

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Ooh,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

again, seconds, 10, 30 seconds just to stand there and stretch. But it makes me feel better, so I'm like, oh, I

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

I like that one. Hmm. Well, you know, one thing that's been really effective, at least most recently, uh, for some of my clients is, um, a phone bedtime, like. If you put your phone, put your phone in a drawer just like you would tuck a kid into bed, seriously, like put in a drawer that's in your room, but across the room, right? Uh, and, and for your evening, and do it consistently at the same time. You can go to sleep whatever time you want, but this way you own. You own your evening. If you wanna cook, you can no screen. You know, if you want to just watch Netflix and chill, if you want to do it in like, just spend some time in your garden. If you wanna read a book, it's up to you. But it gives you some ownership back. It gives you freedom and permission to get off the grid just for a bit. And often I find myself looking forward to it. Like, oh yeah, hey, we're winding down here. Nine o'clock, phone in the drawer.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

phone to

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I'd have to think about that. I have my like alarm clock on my phone, but I really like, maybe it's even putting it down for a nap, like a nap

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

a laptop.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

for a few hours. You're just gonna go in this drawer and I'm gonna go do stuff that's not tap on

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

phone. Like, lemme look down. I'm gonna

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

do some texts. Do some emails. That's really

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Or could you get another alarm that isn't on your phone? What?

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Probably yes, there are like manual actual alarm blocks back in the day. yes. Or I could like wake up with the sun or what people used to do or

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah. Yeah. Just an idea. I don't know. Just an idea.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

but no, that's cool. Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people would hear that and go, I know I should do that and I really want to, but like practically, how do I actually do that? So it might be like, yeah. You can,'cause there are things called alarm clocks

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yes. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

associated with your

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, or even do not disturb on your phone. You can set it consistently for a certain time, but the beauty is, what I like about putting in a drawer or quote unquote putting it to bed, is that it's away from you. Because, come on, we all have those squirrel moments. Like, yeah, I'm not gonna check my work email. But then you forget about the notifications,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Mm-hmm.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

notifications pops through, or you just wanna check Instagram and next thing you know you're like doom scrolling. And you're like, how did I end up here? Great. You know?

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. You know what was a game changer for me is, you know, the, like I have an apple, I have an iPhone, you know the little, the, the number next to your mail icon that tells you how many

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yes. Yes.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

in inbox. I turn that off. There's a setting where you can turn that off. And it was a game changer.'cause if I saw that it would, like, I

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

check it. And I was like, I don't wanna be checking email right now. So there's a way to turn that off. And so when I wanna check email, I check email,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

but I'm not constantly staring at like a, a red dot with a number on it. And that was a game changer

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

You're right because then the number grows and you're like, wait, last time I checked it was only five. Now it's 15. I gotta open it up. I need to see, I need to,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Ooh. That is a game changer. I like that one.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I also, so this is, so, when I was chief of staff, I checked email, like first thing like I was in bed and that was just the habit and that's what it was. Now I don't check my email until I wanna check my email. So I'll get up, get ready, have breakfast, get my mindset, like read a little bit, get my mind right, and then I will go in my office, turn on the computer. And check my email because now I wanna check my email and it's like, was tough at first, but then like after a week I was like, this is how it should be.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

I agree.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I'm so much better this

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

I agree. I agree. Because I mean, if you think about it before the smartphone, that's what work was. Work stayed at work.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Mm-hmm.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Uh, and I just think that where we are in the stage of our careers, because we have this technology, we feel a push. Like a nudge to check to use it because it helps us get a leg up, which is okay if it's used in, if it isn't used consistently, if that isn't your norm, but when it does become your norm, right? Your whole nervous system isn't like fire, fire drill mode, like as soon as you get up. Okay. What fires I need to put out? Okay, let me squeeze in breakfast. Okay. I think I can get this done before the next email. I like how you talked about it, just easing into it, and even the word ease. I don't know, like I'm all about romanticism and that just sounds fun. Like yes, I have the ability to choose to ease into my day, and that's what I like to remind people. We do have choices. Yes, everyone doesn't have the same number of choices, but we can choose how we show up and we can choose when we're engaging or when we're disengaging. Yes, we'll do it strategically. You know, we're not gonna be a brat about it,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Right,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

still have choices and.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

totally.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

when you, when you do burn out, your world gets so small because you're so focused on this one problem, this one proposal, this one world, and everything else falls by the waysides. Your, you know, like your own personal needs. Like, I had to stop getting my nails done because I could never find time to fill them. You know what I mean? Like it's, I mean, it's cute for two weeks, then it grows out and you're like, oh no. Right. This is great, you know?

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Choices trade

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, exactly.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Well, well, I mean, and I think it's like, um, One thing that I had to adjust was like, I wanna be a morning person and get up early.'cause I like having those hours before anyone else gets up. And it's kind of like a romantic time before

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

wakes up and you're

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

to do stuff. I was like, I'm having trouble with this. I'm having trouble. I'm like setting an alarm, I'm doing the habits and I'm like, Emily, the step I forgot was to go to bed earlier. So I.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yes.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Stay up late and I just get up early. I was like, Hmm, okay. You are a smart person in lots of different areas, but somehow you miss this one. So it's setting yourself up for success. It's just logically what makes

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

In this example, if you wanna get

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

what makes sense is to go to bed a little earlier and then you get the right amount of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

and sleep may sleep. a world of difference. People know when they don't get sleep and when they do get

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yes.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

No, I like the point that you were making about like, you had all these grand plans, right? But it's like, but wait, I need to do something before that to make it happen, to make it work. It's, it's so tough. And that's why when you're breaking the cycle, basically, you know, the way we show up at work, we've been doing this for more than 10 years, you know what I mean? So we have all of these bad habits. Forgive me, they're bad habits that we have just. Grown, they've grown into our norms. So when you go against that, there's discomfort, there's irritation, and that's why I talk about having a reward system. When you do do something nice for yourself, how are you rewarding yourself? So, okay, Emily, you, you were able to ease into your morning. Like did you start your day with a smile and then. Did you, did you tell yourself, all right, tomorrow I'm gonna do that again and I'm going to, you know, it's gonna be awesome. Like, are you giving yourself positive talk as a reward, or are you kind of like beating yourself up? Like, what, what was I thinking? I missed those two emails. No, I, those emails sat because this gives an opportunity for other people to maybe jump in and answer those questions. Or maybe it wasn't an issue at all, but. I'll tend to it when I can. So I like a reward system to accompany these habits that we talk about as well.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I like that. Yeah. For this example, I think nothing drastic happened, which was good to clock like, okay, my worst fear does

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

come true. Good to know. And then the fact that I was so unhurried. In the morning was the reward in itself. And I'm like, I

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

So that is more important than, you know, okay, I gotta go to bed a little bit earlier. Or like, uh, like I just woke up, it's dark, it's really comfy under the covers

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Why don't I just stick here? It's like, no, I wanna be on hurry. So I get up and then I can feel that feeling

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

and go into my day that way. So I

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

reflection

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

piece of like, what, what is positive about

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Mm-hmm.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

And oh, I actually like that. more than these other things that I have to quote unquote sacrifice. I will happily sacrifice those things in order to have an unhurried morning. Imagine like waking up, going through your morning and not feeling rushed. It's

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah. That's why we envy vacations, right? Because we're like, we were on no one's calendar. It was great. It was at our own pace. And what I would, what I would love for your listeners if they do experience this, is to just jot it down.'cause like we mentioned, like those first few times that you do it. It's, it's a little like, oh my goodness, what might happen? Like write down like, Hey, I didn't miss anything big. You know, this actually felt good because, and I know everyone's not a journaler, but we have like over a million thoughts that run through our minds. Unless you write it, physically, write it down and get it outta your brain and then write it down so that way you can see it. You're helping connect, you know, where you were, your pre states. To your post dates and then like you're linking those together so that way you can build a good habit around it. You're like, Hey, I actually felt good. I forgot what unhurried, honestly, Emily, I don't know how often I've ever heard that word used unhurried. Like, I'm like, that is a word. Yes.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I just,'cause I, I was always in a

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

in the morning. I was always in a hurry, always in a rush. I wasn't rushed, I wasn't hurried, I was unhurried. Um, but no, I love that prompt because for people who are journalists, certainly do the journaling exercise. I think that's beneficial. And pe for people who are like, ah, I don't journal. I would, I would write down a prediction. Your prediction of what'll happen or like your worst case scenario and then, I don't know, in a week and a month and a quarter, whatever, write down if that came true. So like what was my projection and assumption and what actually happened? Oh, good to know. Good to clock that. So it might just be kinda two checkpoints for

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, I like the prediction'cause um, you know, some, some of us are competitive. I know this is gonna happen. I bet this is gonna happen. And then you look ahead and you're like, oh, didn't happen. I guess I, I am wrong sometimes. I like that.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

If you're like me, I like catastrophize things and I'm like, oh, that, that the world did not end and actually everything got better. Okay. So I guess, I

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I guess I didn't have to worry. Good note for next time. Good reminder. And you have, like, I, I'm a, I can over worry quite easily and I think what helps with that is evidence and reps in your past where it's like, oh, remember that time? Remember that time. Remember you actually have a body of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

to, to lean. of like, oh, like most of the time it's fine. It's like, no, I can list three things. Like, okay, I'm doing that again. It's probably gonna be

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah, I like that. Hmm. A body of work, a body of data, and all of this is data, right? Data to either help you keep moving forward or to, to, what is it? Start, stop, or delete. Like, Hey, start, stop or delegate. Hey, maybe this is something you can use on yourself, because I know we use this on projects and we use it on processes and people. Why not yourself and how you're showing up.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. And I keep coming back to, in this conversation, I keep coming back to people do get in these autopilots, so we, we run habits and programs and autopilot all day long. And so even like Sophia was saying, just take inventory of like, what, what do I have on autopilot right now? What habits do I just automatically do? What narratives do I have in my head? And if you can. See them and kind of put them out in front of you, then you can decide like, Hey, this one's helping me. I like this one. I'll continue this one. And ooh, that one is not, maybe it used to be helpful in some other scenario, but it is, it is definitely harming me more than it's helping me. And so I wanna make an intentional

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah,

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

I think that can be a useful

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

I like that.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We covered a lot. Sleep, being present, um, using your energy.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

uh, you've mentioned kind of. and romanticizing things. I like that angle. I haven't heard that angle quite said like that. Um, and for people who are like kind of more hardcore, it could be like you're training yourself, right? Like you're training and you're disciplining yourself to put yourself in best position to lead. Uh, whatever, whatever floats your boat. Like whatever way you wanna come at that. Do the stuff. Do the things that put you in a good position, um, to go where you wanna

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Sophia, anything else that's coming to mind as we talk about micro habits? Send, feeling that we're not doing enough.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Mm. Well, you know what I hear often in some of the workshops I lead is people will say like, look, I don't have any hobbies. Look, this work is my hobby. This is how I identify. Like, you know how people have pronouns, how they do like, no, I identify with my title. That is, that is who I am. I wanna challenge you if, if your listeners can do this, I know they like challenges, is to think about the last time you were happy, like happiest in your life. In general, it doesn't have to be anything monumental, like the day I got married or the day I bought my first car. It could be anything. And then try to break that down, like double click into why? Why were you happiest? You know? Was it that you were with people that made you laugh? Was it because like you were 20 and backpacking was adventurous to you? And then I want you to. Take another step back and try to figure out how to add that to your world. I did this exercise for myself and I realized that I'm really a creative person at heart, but I, I climb the, the ranks in finance. There is nothing creative about finance. And if there is. There's an orange jumpsuit that comes along with it. So I really had to look at my world and, and separate like, yes, I'm killing it at work, but what am I doing for myself around those habits around, sorry, around those hobbies. Um, and so for me it was adventure. So if I did work from home, I worked at a coffee shop because just the people watching, yes, it was distracting, but it was nice to like get out of my element or I would. Um, kind of like map out different, uh, different coffee shops I could go to that are a longer route. So even the, I guess the, the street, the street design, whatever I'm trying to say, the streets I would turn on, that's an adventure. I've never turned down this street. It's gotta be here on the left. Just adding those small things to my world help me step out of work mode and into. Who I am and what's important, and then setting those boundaries, beca became just a little easier. That's why I romanticized coffee.'cause it's, it's nice.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah, coffee is nice. It's like, um, uh, I always joke, uh, coffee's my spirit animal, like it runs throughout my body and it's always with me wherever I need it. So it gives me energy. Um, but I like, it kind of goes with your, it's, it's a symbol of filling your cup.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

like that when you mentioned like, you know, you need to fill your cup energy and like spiritual wise, and if you take a moment to watch like a cup actually being filled, that might be a nice way to just remind yourself,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

of

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

But

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Hmm.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

yeah, and I think what you said about hobbies. Yeah. If someone doesn't have a hobby, um. Yeah, that's, that's a question for me. I like, it may like, I'm sure there's scenarios where it's like, Hey, for a phase of life, I'm intentionally going all in at work. But yeah, that might be if you don't have any hobbies or any

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

That comes up. That comes up very, very consistently, I would say, because a lot of the people I work with are type A's, they're very driven people. They believe that self-sacrifice is just how you get ahead and their, their hobby is bringing home the bacon or you know, like whatever. So that's why I try to go back to when were you happiest last, and then trying to break that down.'cause sometimes, I mean, we just, you know, sometimes you're happiest when you're around other people. So then how often are you investing in your friendships, in your social relationships, like outside of the transactional ones that you have to have for work? So it's just another way to look at the way you're showing up because burnout, in my opinion, burnout is when your efforts are misaligned to your values. And yes, I understand that Maybe. Being a chief of staff, you enjoy, you enjoy doing that. You enjoy putting together financial statements, you enjoy all these things, but what really lights you up before then when you were a kid, you know, before you were age 10, like, what, what was it? You know? So

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

we gotta get back to that.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Yeah, love that prompt. You know, when your last happiest or like, um, I heard an interview with the actor and he was talking about being on

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Okay.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

and he was like, it was more fun than fun. And I was like, such a great expression. Like, what's more fun than fun to you? So

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Ooh.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

love

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

also feels like such a high bar. What's more fun than fun? I dunno.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

And, and what made me think of that is just like your childhood prompt. Like when you're, like, when you're 10, you know, you're like, just, it's like fun. It's more fun than fun and you're just exuberant and you have these moments where you're unfiltered.

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

um, I love that. I love that prompt and idea for people. Um, Sophia, if someone like, oh, I kind of like what she's talking about, I wanna reach out to her, or, uh, any, any information that you wanna share in terms of,

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

bodies of work or resources or contact

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Yes. Fi um, subscribe to my YouTube channel. It's called Gearing Together. There's so many more, um, corporate truths that we need to unlearn, so myths that we need to unlearn. And I unpack'em one by one. Uh, so it might be something nice to to hear in your ear if you wanna. Change it up a little bit and if, if you want me to come in and talk to your teams or lead a workshop, sometimes it works best when you're in community with teams. Sometimes it's peers or direct reports. I do that also, and you could just email me, sophia@gearingtogether.com.

emily-sander_1_12-09-2025_113211:

Beautiful. Sophia, thank you so much. Really

sophia-m---gearingtogether_1_12-09-2025_133210:

Sweet.