Leveraging Leadership

How Municipal Leaders Foster Community Impact and Build Effective City Governance

• Jessa Estenzo • Season 1 • Episode 247

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Nicholas Richard-Thompson shares his journey from creative intern to Deputy Chief of Staff for Aurora, Illinois, discussing the importance of building relationships, working with nonprofits, and navigating local government. He gives examples like coordinating lead line water replacement and partnering with organizations during COVID. The episode covers team structure, community advocacy, and practical tips for getting involved in local government.

Links Mentioned:
Here are several nonprofit organizations that Nicholas Richard-Thompson is involved with or supports:

Community Foundation of the Fox River Valley
Aurora Food Pantry
Young Invincibles
INDIVISIBLE AURORA (Aurora Mutual Aid)

Get in touch with Emily:
Want to chat with Emily? Book a quick clarity call here.

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Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
 
Time Stamps:
01:43 Nick's Background and Career Path
04:27 Transition to Municipal Government
06:10 Community Engagement and Nonprofit Work
13:30 Role and Structure of the Mayor's Office
22:52 The Role of Lobbyists in Municipal Government
25:13 Local Advocacy and Community Impact
30:34 Nonprofit Collaboration with Municipal Government
36:30 Advice for Aspiring Chiefs of Staff and Engaged Citizens
44:03 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

My guest today is Nicholas Richard Thompson. Nick, how are you doing today?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

I am doing well. I'm doing well. How are you doing?

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

I'm doing great now that I'm talking to you, I've been looking forward to this one all week. We're recording on a Friday, and I've had this one pinned on my calendar because you are, uh. From the public sector side of things and we've had so many fantastic guests, chief of staff, guests from the private sector side, which has been fascinating to learn about. But I know a lot of people have their context for chief of staff from West Wing and that TV show that happened, um, back in the day and uh, Leo McGarry and all that for the president of the United States. Now you are a. Deputy Chief of staff in local government for the city of Aurora, Illinois. So a little bit different. I know, but still I think that, um, I'm gonna learn a lot from this conversation and our listeners will be happy to hear from someone from your side of the fence, so to speak. So thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know you're crazy busy too.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Absolutely happy to do it. Uh, talking about municipal governance, uh, as well as just. general overall city of happenings, developments and things of that nature are, are, are actually exciting to me. Uh, so, uh, anytime I can share that information with other folks, uh, it's always an honor to do so.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Love it. And let's go back to your origin story. So you have one of these, when I linked, when I look at your LinkedIn profile, it's like intern several different roles and then deputy chief of staff. So take us through that whole, that whole trajectory and lifecycle. Okay.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Uh, a little bit about the lore of, of Nick. I started as an intern, as you, as you, uh, mentioned, and I came into the public sector really as a creative actually. So, uh, my endeavors in college were really to be a filmmaker. And a writer. I was doing a lot of advocacy and what Dr drove me to wanna make films really was, uh, storytelling and cultural work. So that's what really grounded me. So I was always really at the intersection of what governance. I think, more and more is emerging as like this space and place where. Uh, we asked questions of how do we, uh, make day-to-day decisions? How do we distribute resources and, and the ways in which we ensure that, uh, folks are, are safe and have a wellbeing? And all of that is gonna be deeply tied to policy and advocacy. So, to me, it, it's all deeply intertwined. So starting out, you know, as a creative and a, a cultural worker, I got an internship with the city government in a, a creative role. And, uh, quickly I saw I just shared wasn't apparent to me at the time, but it became very apparent of the intricacies of local government and the ways in which departments work, how decisions are made. And as someone who was on the outside doing a lot of grassroots work, I saw the gap. What I, I, what I identified as the gap between the knowledge and institutional knowledge of advoc, uh, advocates and organizers. And activists, and then the city administrators and managers and the, the, the bureaucrats, right. The, the folks who run it. And I was like. They're both missing information about the other, and they actually could be helping each other a great deal in terms of better efficient governance, more transparent, more responsive governance, and just a stronger public sector. Uh, but there's oftentimes contention, um, and this isn't unique to Aurora or Illinois. This is across the country, right? There have been many reports put out that transparency and trust in government is just at a all time low at all levels. And the federal government impacts the local government, not only by grants and support and infrastructure projects, but also the perception, right? Uh, sometimes people just collapse all government. When you hear the word government into one, not knowing that the local, your state, and your federal government are bashing different in our purview and what we. Oversee and how we, uh, work and deliver services, but also philosophically, vastly different. But if you don't, uh, aren't civically engaged, you might not know that. So. Digressing a bit. Started as an intern at the creative, I quickly became interested in municipal government from a different standpoint. So I got into communications. And from communications, uh, that was to me really, uh, deeply intertwined with economic development because economic development has, mul is multi-pronged, right? It is the building, the zoning, and the. The crafting of the type of economy, uh, that meets the needs of people and the types of business developments that are going to be reflective of your community, their aspirations, the cultural context, but also you have to articulate that. So worked really closely with our economic development department. then I was like, I think I wanna move to economic development. I've done nothing in this, but I, I, I'd like to do that. So I, I started going back to school to get my Master's in public administration and I talked to the eco, the, the director of economic development, who's still here today. And, uh, he and I had a great conversation today actually, uh, about this interview.'cause I told him, and, uh, I went to that department for a year and started just like learning everything I could, uh, about grants and distributions, uh, about the different ways to build on spec, how to work and, you know, curate. And bring businesses to our community and doing that strategically in a way that creates a synergy, uh, and uh, is responsive to the aspirations of, uh, residents. So did that for about a year or two. And then finally I was doing so much work in the community, just advocacy. I sit on the boards of like four nonprofits. Uh, one focuses on youth development, another focuses on, uh, connecting people who care, the causes that matter. So it's a community foundation which just distributes grants. So that's, that's essentially what we do. And then another is a food pantry. And focus on food insecurity. And then another is an advocacy organization that's grassroots bottom up, uh, rural mutual aid. And I was doing so much work with the nonprofits that I wanted to find ways to close that gap as well. Right. Nonprofits fulfill a very important role in any community. Uh, our service agencies, uh, addressing the needs that sometimes government can't or is unwilling to do. And it's really imperative that our, we, I think you have a strong ecosystem of, of, of nonprofits and service organizations that are. Reflective of your community's needs. So then with that I was like, I think I wanna go to community engagement. I think it's a natural transition and it'll make sense because I have all these community relationships, I do all this work anyway when I'm, when I clock out, so, so to speak, I'm going to a community group and working on advocacy and different strategic plans, or I'm going to help solve a problem on a hyper-local neighborhood group. So to me. I had learned what I needed to learn in economic development. Had a strong, robust understanding and, uh, always room to learn more. But I was like, I think I like understand it Now, I was graduating, so I got my master's in public administration, so then I was like, let me go to community engagement.'cause I think this is what ties everything together. Community engagement is not solely one off events, but it's crafting, creating what I would call how do you create. Participatory governance. How do you create leaders and advocates of their own communities? How do you streamline the process? And so people can understand the ways in which government government works on a local level so that they can know what department to go to, who to speak to about what, something as simple as how do I get a stop sign on my street? And what that looks like for that process to something maybe more intricate of, we have the federal government, you know, and things happening around, uh, immigration, customs, and um, and enforcement. members being scared about that. So how do you respond to that in a way where there are things that local government just can't do?'cause we're not the federal government, like legally, but there are plenty of things we can do to make sure residents are heard, feel safe, and have the resources they need to navigate unprecedented times. So community engagement to me was that that space to do that to like really, really have. Direct, uh, contact and engagement with our people, and then building long-term, how you create really civically engaged and, uh, politically activated people. So did that. Finally, I left for almost a year or two. Uh, for some family reasons I needed something remote. Uh, municipal government, you just can't really do it remote. It's pretty hard to do that. Uh, and I wouldn't want to, I'd like to be in the office. I'd like to be, uh, in the midst of things. Like yesterday I was in the office and someone just came and couldn't talk to the mayor, uh, because the mayor was out and I got to speak to this resident. They were surprised that we, we came to speak. Like one thing we really value in this particular administration is. Uh, creating connections and cultivating community and like the merit of them. Like being called mayor, everybody called him by his first name John, right? And like that is something that seems small, but he really wants to make sure that everybody sees us as horizontal and that we are working together and that we are not just, uh, domineering leaders. So. I left for those two years and I was working at a policy and advocacy organization and, and working in human rights, uh, where a lot of what my heart work is. And, uh, this new administration came in and gave me a phone call and asked what I wanna, like, what would I like to come be a part of what he was building. And he was a big guy on a people centered economy, something important to me. He was big on, uh, climate and sustainability. An imperative, uh, for anybody, especially in our generation. And then he was just somebody who really wanted transparent government and he asked me could I come in and build, like what would be this democratic, participatory and co-governance kind of model? And would I help build that out with, uh, legislative affairs and intergovernmental affairs? And I was excited to take on the task. So, uh, left my, you know, the job I was enjoying, uh, as a policy and communications director and came back to, uh, my city government. Where I was, I was born at in this community, and, uh, now I'm getting to serve in this capacity. So it's really an honor, but that's a, the short, maybe long version of it, depending who you ask.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

I love it. I love everything you just said. And just to put a finer point on it, you were handpicked. Personally asked by the mayor to step into this deputy chief of staff role. So maybe just a little more, I know you're trying to be humble there, but a little more of like how you guys got connected. Why he, why do you think he did that? Kind of, what was that connection like?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah, appreciate you. My mom said the same thing. I guess I didn't see it like that. I was just like, oh yeah, he called me and just like, you know, that was nice. But yeah, where it came from with an existing relationship, I think some of the most important things we can do, uh, people call it networking. I'll call it relationship building. I think networking has like a under, uh, current of quid pro quo. To me, I like to build genuine, authentic, sincere relationships. So I had met our mayor John probably, almost a decade ago, and I was just through grassroots efforts, right? I, he was always at meetings I was in, we were in a lot of basement churches together, scheming on different ways to solve problems in the community and. Uh, he had been helping a candidate run for Congress at the time who I stumbled upon, and I went to a town hall that this congressional person was having or this, uh, candidate was having. I asked him tough questions like, international relations are super important to me. So I asked these questions and I was really. Impressed by her answers because she said, I actually don't know anything about those places. I would love for you to talk to my campaign manager and maybe we can sit down and I can develop a position on this. I'm running as a single mom because I'm running as a single mom.'cause I want, uh, you know, uh, Medicaid and healthcare and like, that's my main issue. But like, I'm open to hearing what folks have to say from the community and I was just taken aback. There's a lot of intellectual humility. Uh, humility and curiosity. And then her campaign manager was the now mayor.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Ah.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

the campaign manager, campaign manager, and we just have, we just hit it off really well because we had, uh, a lot of shared values and then there are things we didn't agree upon. But I could tell from that instance, and still today, he has such an impeccable character and integrity, even if he disagrees with you fundamentally. He wants to hear where you're coming from is somebody who really always engages in good faith. So I joined her campaign after that, uh, as a consultant and worked on some of her policy internationally and as well as some of her policy domestically, uh, regarding, uh, mass incarceration. So from there, me and John stayed really close in touch, uh, from time to time. Uh, he was running for a local, uh, office, uh, as a alderman at large, right, uh, in our city. We have 10 alderman. We have the mayor, then we have two at large that cover the whole city. And the other 10 cover specific wards, the 10 wards. And he ran for alderman at large one. So then we were working a little bit closer together because I would see him'cause I was still working for the city. And then just maintain a relationship. I think he, what he shared, he says I have, uh, an ability, uh, to really make policy. sense to people. That's complic complicated, convoluted, and that I have abilities to be diplomatic and bring people from across the spectrum together on shared values and systems change. So I guess, uh, I'd like to think so too. So that, that, that's what he's always said about, about me and why he brought me in and is somebody who I just really trust, uh, at this point with, uh, everything he's done, everything he's doing, and he's, he maintains his word, which I really appreciate, uh, in, in, in any elected official.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

For sure. For sure. And it sounds like your creative background and your storytelling came into play. You're able to translate complex ideas to different audiences. So, um, that kind of comes full circle there. Um, and you kind of touched on the makeup of your. Of your team and mentioning that John, you know, likes pretty flat organization or a flat culture, um, but I'm sure there are different, different team members you work with and maybe talk to folks about how that's set up. You're the deputy chief of staff, so there's a chief of staff, I'm assuming somewhere. Um, there's legislative folks, there's people on the grassroots, on the ground. How does all this come together around you?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah, that's a really great question. So I think I, I. I like to oppose rigid rigidity. I always like to be prepared for the infinite variety of circumstance, and that's meaning that we have strong roles defined, uh, but our structures are flexible to the, to the, the many changing circumstances we find, especially in local governance. So in our mayor's office, we have a deputy chief of staff, myself, chief of staff, uh, Shannon Cameron, and then we have a deputy Mayor, Casey, uh, il,

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Okay.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

uh, and then we have the Mayor John Lash, right. With that we are really horizontal in how we problem solve, but we have defined roles based upon our expertise and sometimes we step in, right? Casey is the frontline for what we call, like the person who's putting out a lot of fires and meeting directly with constituents all the time, and residents all the time on hyper-local problems. From everything from business owners to residents, uh, to folks who are wanting to do work in Aurora or people who have had issues, uh, and could not solve them with maybe. Other like, uh, avenues talk to Casey. Me, I'm handling a lot of our legislative and governmental affairs,

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Okay.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

while like doing a lot of internal kind of development of different depart, very, very particular departments. And then Shannon has excellent e executive skills, so has, uh, been the leader of numerous like nonprofit organizations and, uh, in an executive role. And just like she leads a lot with empathy and is very values driven and has like an impeccable way of like Uh, uh, a problem and being able to, like, this is a problem we're facing, how do we solve it? And then getting input. Uh, so that's how the mayor's office is structured. Then you have the City of Aurora, particularly, we have 15 departments, right? We're in, we're in a, a midst of a reorganization, so that might change, but as of right now, we have 15 departments and we split those departments up between the, the chief of staff and myself. And we work closely, uh, with some departments more than others. But ultimately, you know, if. One of the department, Shannon, primarily looks like overseas, like human resources came to me with a problem. I wouldn't be like, go to Shannon. It's, it's all about like understanding, uh, each other's skillset sets and expertise. So I work a lot with community engagement. I work a lot with our equity team. I work a lot with our clerk's office. I work a lot with, uh, our development team. So based upon like some of my, my other, uh, career kind of, uh, uh. Job titles. We, we, based upon that, I work a lot with our comms team'cause I know the background and like the day-to-day needs of that. So like, I'm a little bit better equipped to help with solving micro problems or understanding the administrative aspects, the things they face. Uh, and Shannon with like, uh, a lot of our code enforcement, our human resources, uh, and things of that nature. That's how we divvy up the work. And then we trust our staff to, to be leaders, right? We have, uh, you know, chief in each department like it, is not my ministry. I would never go into it and tell those people how to do their job. What I try to do is be a resource and set the vision and the leadership of how we want to engage, but ultimately what they're doing, uh, when they bring bring us solutions, we trust our, our senior, uh, executive staff, uh, to do that. That's why we brought them in. So. there's a lot of trust that we have in our senior staff and there's a reciprocal in that they trust the vision that we're setting and that we're remain. We remain. Uh, with impeccable integrity that we're listening to the needs, being responsive and then, you know, making the high level complex decisions that are necessary for connecting all the departments.'cause it's an ecosystem and there's cross collaboration and, uh, so many instances, uh, where. You need that kind of high level chief of staff, city manager role to be able to connect all the dots and like see a strong vision going forward. Whereas the hyperfocused on it, the hyperfocused on human resource, hyperfocused on economic development. They can do what they're good at. We can do what we're good at by bringing it all together, by having that like really solid leadership that's transformational, uh, as well as horizontal and democratic.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

And you mentioned so many different constituents, constituencies that you have internally and externally, and at the end of the day, I'm assuming you also are there to fulfill the promises of the. Of the mayor and what, what he's trying to do for his constituents. Um, in terms of decision making. Are you, are you in the room where it happens? Are you, is this a group conversation? Is this kind of a sounding board situation? Um, you know, he's bouncing ideas off you and vice versa type of thing.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah, all the time. Uh, you know, there are times when like, uh, we joke the most work gets done after five

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

when,'cause throughout the day we've learned, mind you, you know, we're coming, we were just coming in as a new administration. So we're all learning together at times and. There are days where we have back to back meetings and we don't get to really talk to each other because we're either in the meeting together or there's separate concurrent meetings. And then we convene at the end of the day, so like six 30, that's when we get into the nitty gritty, right? We're talking the philosophical, larger picture, the vision, updating each other on the nitty happenings and the fires and the different kind of needs we had to address throughout the day. And, uh. Constantly having being each other's sounding board with like large decisions. Uh, what I appreciate is everybody gets to weigh in on decisions. And, uh, you know, like Shannon, like I said before, this is a, a, a really good example. She is focused really on human resources right now and I don't have a lot of human resources, resources background, but I know people. So she brought me in on the interviews for the human resources, the new chief, uh, just to get my insight. Uh, so things like that all the time, just bringing each other in when we think. know, oh, Shannon will be really good for this. And I do the same thing. Right. I got a project right now where we're, uh, part of a cohort for a, a national organization focused on community engagement, and we were selected out of like a bunch of cities that applied and I brought Shannon in just to get like. Uh, insight on her thoughts of like, who else we should bring in on this project because I trust her, her, her judgment and assessment, and I think she trusts me as well. So constantly cross collaboration. The mayor, like before we make decisions, oftentimes he will ask Shannon, ask myself, ask Casey, and we all give our, our kind of perspectives. A lot of times we're all in alignment. Other times there's slight nuances and then we share why we have those nuances and that, but it informs and instructs everything that we do, even if like something that I'm. Particular about doesn't get chosen. It was heavily considered. But then, you know, there are things even today, like I had a really strong opinion on something and Shannon shed light on another thing that I wasn't aware of. I was like, oh, well, okay, see, like that, that changes things entirely. But that can't, that can't happen unless you have a leader that facilitates that kind of open dialogue

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

That's right.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

deceptive and responsive to it. So I think it makes us all better, uh, in the way that we show up and we have like a, I think a really democratic process.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Is a deputy mayor, like a vice president.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

You can see it like that, right? He can step in for the mayor a lot of times in terms of. Like lot of events. The mayor is someone who really prioritizes. He's like, I wanna be at almost every community event. If they invite us. I wanna be present. I wanna show our faces. I want people to know that like we are reachable and that we are like among the people. So with that, the deputy mayor has to step in a lot because as you can imagine, they're events that go on concurrently. They're events that like stream, like that overlap. So a lot of times that's what's happening. And then, you know, he can fill in, in a lot of ways. Um. In terms of day-to-day operations. When it comes to city council though, and that's to confuse people, there's something called a mayor pro temp, and that is somebody of the council. So the deputy mayor could not fill in on the council. It's not in the code for the deputy mayor to have that authority. So he doesn't have the same authority as the mayor. Like his powers don't derive from anything, uh, in the City of Aurora code. Uh, but it is a world that the, the mayor's office has created that he can help out with, like. Operationally, but not like legislatively, to be clear. So, uh, the mayor, the mayor pro temp is somebody chosen by the mayor who will fill in if the mayor's absent to cover city council and then his different committees. Uh, and that is somebody who is of the council. So another al person, but, but. Yeah, just to make that distinction. But, uh, yeah, the Casey is able to fill in on other ways, in other capacities, just day-to-day operationally, like showing up from the mayor camp, uh, being able to fill in on meetings and like be able to have like to guide and steward still, but nothing, legislatively, nothing in the code.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

And then how do you interact with the federal government? So I know you said they're separate, but there's certain things that local government is probably more focused and relevant for and there's certainly things legally and you know, different legislation that. Needs to happen at the federal level. How, but there is a connection point, and I'm ho I'm assuming, I'm hoping that there's some contact or some regular communication happening. How does, how does that work between the mayor's office and um, the federal level?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah, so we have lobbyists that work with us and our lobbyists can follow the intricacies and track legislation and track different grants. Uh, that, uh, would be relevant to the city. And then I, uh, parlay with them constantly on that so that I can focus on like hyper-local, legislative and intergovernmental affairs. But our lobbyists and most municipal governments, especially of our size, have lobbyists. Even smaller ones have lobbyists. So they work with you, uh, to ensure that, you know, they are stewarding and building the relationships that are. Reflective and close to what the vision is of that administration and really our residents and our needs. So, we get a lot of grants from the federal government, like any other municipal unit of government for infrastructure, buildouts, public works, roads, bridges. Right? I'll give you an example right now. There was like legislation path that. Require lead line water replacement. So like the, how water gets to your house because of how they were built years ago. Uh, it's quite frankly just not safe. Some of'em can like, because they're deteriorating, lead can fall into the water.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Oh.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

this, mind you, this is like a national thing. Like a lot of cities are like, this is not unique to Aurora. Most cities that have like older infrastructure, uh, have this. So it's a process of changing it over time and not just one failed swoop because I would be. One, a very large task, but two, probably not effective, and three, uh, exorbitantly expensive. So we're working with the federal government to get the necessary grants to follow this process. And our Director of Public Works, our, our, our chief, uh, of public works is leading that project and he works with the mayor's office. He works with our grants department and works with like me and our lobbyists to ensure that we're getting the resources we need to complete such a project and, uh, make sure our residents are getting, uh, top-notch services such as water, which is like the, the

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Pretty essential. Yeah, it's.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Pretty essential, right? So that's an example. Uh, there's many instances that come up that you work with your federal government, uh, on a variety of other public safety issues and emergency management that, that, that, that can come more so, um, infrequently or hopefully infrequently. Uh, but then like a lot of times, uh, the federal government provides like community block grants. So we work with that to get those grants to, uh, to put in like to local community organizations and, uh. Uh, really a lot of the times it's facilitating those relationships so we can talk to our Congress people, uh, about different local issues that then, let's say there's legislation that's needed, that's at the federal level. Then we would work with that congressional, that, uh, congress person, uh, to get some legislation like drafted, and then hopefully see it through the, the, the, the process. So that's the different ways we work with the, the, the federal government. And then of course you have your state that, uh, oversees and, you know, facilitates, uh, different things as well.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Okay. And then can you talk about advocacy on a local level? Because I feel like a lot of people, um, I don't know, this might be just in my community, but a lot of people are like, oh, my little. Ly dollar amount won't do anything. And maybe, maybe not so much at a federal level or even a state level, but at a local level. I mean, depending on how effectively your local government uses that, you can make a pretty big impact. Have you seen, what have you seen in terms of, um, advocacy at the local level?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Advocacy at the local level is always necessary and, uh, incredibly important and pivotal to like social change. And I would always implore people to engage with your local advocacy organizations, uh, and not do it in silos. I think that's the issue that the, the error that we make because, uh, perhaps if you are by yourself and you can only donate five,$10, even a hundred dollars, it does feel maybe. Insignificant, but just because it insignificant doesn't mean it's not impactful, right? So when you collectivize those small instances of advocacy, you have what I would consider, like, you know, critical mass, right? And you have people of all varieties across the board, uh, that have different skill sets, expertise, passions that can collectively align on a particular issue. You're, you're, you're stronger that way. It's likely that you're, the advocacy, uh, will lead to social change or systematic change that you're desiring. Or it might just be like you've got a bunch of neighbors together again to get that stop sign. Right. So you're always better together. Because I, I'll tell you, local officials will get a bunch of emails and it's like, it's a bunch of regular, like regular individualized emails on hyper individual issues. One person they might. at it. Uh, but if you have 10 people talking about an issue, you'd be very surprised all of a sudden like, oh, this is pretty serious. Because voter turnout is so low across the nation, and because local officials are not always used to, especially in smaller cities, uh, and villages. not always used to that type of engagement. If you have 10 people like that is a show of support. They may be more re quicker responsive and be like, okay, I gotta look into this. So I'll always implore people to get organized. Right. Uh, when you're able to have the infrastructure and the ability to. Shape your messaging, have your values set, and have a strategy to engage with your elected officials. You are way more likely to solve problems and like it's, I think it's incredibly important for people to be engaged locally. And advocacy can work, but never do it in silos. Always do it in the collective, and you'll be surprised how much you could get done when you have a few organized and dedicated, uh, neighbors who really wanna solve a problem.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

And I mean, 10 is a lot, not a lot. It's like, who's in your neighborhood? Who's in your church? Who's in your community? Who's in your Chamber of Commerce? Who's in your whatever Toastmasters group? You know, I'm just listing stuff off the top of my head. But if you find 10 people of of like mind and. You know, that was surprising to me, that number that you threw out. Like, oh, okay, well if we're talking 10 then, um, and that makes an impact to get someone's attention, then that's not, that's not that tall of a task. I thought you were gonna say, well, look Emily, you need like a thousand people really to put a dent in things.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Right. And I, I, and I'll be, I'll be more clear, right? Like there are some issues that are larger that like the more people, the better. Always get more people. But I, but on, on, on a really like basis, if you have 10 people, I, I think that positions you better to get more people because if you have 10 people

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah, true.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

person and that person gets a person, like that's how you start organizing and you can be more effective and build capacity. Right? Always great to have more people, but uh, when you walk into city council, you have 10 people speak on the same issue. That's pretty powerful, right?

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

across the board, uh, regardless of population, uh, you have 10 organized people who are willing to show up to city council and speak passionately about an issue that does make a dent. Uh, sometimes there are projects that are larger, uh, and may have, uh, larger implications. Then definitely you might want to, uh, build people, but you gotta start somewhere. So if you can start with five people, build that to 10, that 10 turns to 20, and then you get to that thousand, like, it'll be very hard to. what, what, what your request is. Especially because the more people you have, uh, quite frankly, the better your approach may be, right? You have, you probably have a better analysis because the more people that are involved, you have better expertise, you have more robust kind of research, you have more efforts being made, uh, that critical mass again, uh, now, uh, can be utilized in a way that ensures that you have a solution that is well researched and is likely to be more effective. And you have a city government now that can. Be quicker to response because like, oh, you already did the leg work for us. Now all you gotta do is really listen and implement, uh, which I should be the relationship. Right. I, I think policy should come our communities and then the, the technocrats and the bureaucrats and the, the, the, the lawyers and the people who have the technical institutional knowledge can turn it into code and legislation, but the needs are, uh, really solely with our people. And, uh, we, it's really to our own demise if we don't listen to folks. I think so.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

And I want people to

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

to what you just said. So replay that. Start with five people. Nick just says, start with five people. It's the mustard seed. And then bring solutions, like bring solutions and gather resources and intelligence and ideas as you create that greater cohort and group and bring solutions. So I love, I just love that sentiment and spirit, and we need, we need more people doing that. The, there's the famous quote about the small group of dedicated individuals making a difference in the world. Um, how does your nonprofit work interplay with what you're doing now?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah, that's a really great question. So I think a strong, robust municipal government, needs a ecosystem of nonprofits that address the different needs that perhaps a government doesn't have purview over or is not able to. Work really closely with them. So many cases we give out yearly grants, uh, quality of life grants. Uh, like a lot of local governments do two different nonprofits that apply for them. Uh, we also will work closely on just like larger issues, uh, in terms of gathering data. Like if there's a public health crisis. Sometimes our nonprofits with the health department are on the first lines of that. To figure out how do we respond to, like, what happened? We didn't have to do this, but for example, I think we'll be familiar with your audience, like the opioid crisis, like if, if a, if a local region or municipality is, uh, more targeted by that. And then you have your state and health department, and then you have your local county departments, uh, and then you have your nonprofits that will generally administer some of the solutions, right? So during COVID, for example. Working with our, uh, county health departments and then our nonprofits that have closer relationships with sometimes some particular demographics and populations to get them the COVID vaccine. Right. Uh, we worked with the nonprofit during that time that was just really close with, uh, different churches. And then we had, uh, the nonprofits in the churches be site locations to administer the vaccine.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

So those are the types of things that, uh, come to get, uh, that come together for large, like issues like that. But then of course you have the, just the day-to-day service agencies that are running to provide mental health services, providing housing solutions, supporting with food insecurity. And like we fund those through grants or we have relationships with them. We attend their galas. We ensure that they have the support and resources that people are aware that they exist. We build our resource list on our website. to our local nonprofits. So it's a lot of inter, inter interchange and interplay between our nonprofits and our, that ecosystem and ensuring it's robust. And then the local governments that like administer, uh, some of the other services.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

And classic chief of staff question for you. How in the world do you prioritize your time and keep yourself organized?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah. Uh, it changes daily. I, again, I don't like to be rigid, so like I, I'm a person that likes to be nimble and be prepared for the infinite variety of circumstance. Uh, day to day though, when I come in, uh, I was just telling somebody about this the other day'cause they're like, why do you come in two hours early? I was like,'cause I don't have a choice. So, so. What I, what I generally will do is I love to be abreast on what's going on nationally. So I will come in two hours early, spend the first hour just reading on what's happening globally next hour, responding to all emails that I can get to that I didn't get to from the day prior. And then finally when work does start, now I feel like I'm ahead of the game. I'm not catching up. I'm ahead of the game. So then I prioritize based upon. Time constraints, time sensitive and what needs to be done. And sometimes you have to reorient, things. I'll give you an example of today, right? Uh, the mayor had an emergency legislative thing. He wanted to run through city council that by the end of. Like today has to be on the agenda, but we had to make all the, the code, the, the ordinance had to work with two different departments to ensure everything was curated. Did that, but I had like three other things that are due probably next week that I just pushed to the side, because right now this needs to be done because it's time sensitive. So then once that was done, I looked at what else was needed. Uh, prior to this interview and I was like, is there anything else I I need to be doing? Uh, and I really, like, I have a, I have a, a project management system we use internally, uh, through a vendor. And like that helps tremendously too. Like if you have technology at your fingertips that can help you organize your day, do it right? We have like, whether it's. Your Microsoft teams and these different, you know, uh, project management systems utilize those. And like I just ask myself the question of like, how much time will I realistically need for this? And it's always constantly like changing. So that's how I prioritize time sensitive. And then never losing sight of the vision though. Like I think if you only respond to time sensitive things, you sometimes lose sight of the other micro. L like, uh, projects that are important to the larger vision. So there are, those are always, I have a board in my office that I have bullet points of, like the large vision things that like, are gonna take sometimes months and years. But like, I'm always thinking about those, uh, and ensuring that I'm dedicating time to those as well. So, you know, day to day utilizing technology for sure, understanding time sensitive projects, and then always, uh, making time and slowly building the the world we want by. Never losing sight of the larger vision, right? Because I think you can lose the forest for the trees sometimes, and you can just easily every day be putting out fires. But you should always take time. That's why I come in two hours earlier. Sometimes. You should really be taking time to look at the global context, spend time, understanding and being responsive to your emails, but also thinking deliberately about strategy and tactics and how you're executing ultimately. Uh, and that requires sometimes I block out an hour on my calendar two weeks in advance to say. Nick stinking time because you need that. So then people know like, okay, let's, you know, don't schedule anything there.'cause he, he's saying, yeah, he needs an hour or two that day to think, uh, and ensure that we're not just making decisions out of reaction, but we're responding.'cause we don't wanna just react to things. We're gonna respond to things. And that response presupposes thought reaction is just, just that it's reaction.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah. Knee jerk reaction. Yeah, I was, I was nodding my head furiously throughout everything you were just saying, especially when I had this, all this, these things lined up and then the mayor needed this right away, and so those things just got pushed to next week. I was like, mm-hmm. You have. Chiefs of staff around the world. Nodding their heads, listening to you, Nick. Um, so, um, as we wind down here, uh, last question for you, kind of two part question. One is, for anyone who wants to become a chief of staff in local government or in the public side of things, what advice would you give them? And then a follow on to that would be anyone listening who just wants to. Participate more in local government. Not necessarily go work for a mayor's office, but just have their voice heard as a citizen. What advice would you give those folks as well?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Yeah. I'll start with the first question. Anybody wants to, uh, extend to the chief of staff role, whether private or public? I'll speak more to the public'cause that's my expertise is, I would say learn as much as you can about your local government, first and foremost in a different departments and how they run. I think I've, I've always described myself as a polymath. Or a Renaissance person. I have a lot of different skill sets because I have a lot of passions and before I think people would say like, oh, he's not focused, but like instead, like I just, I, when I. towards something, I like go down rabbit holes and I, I love to learn the intricacies and the ins and outs of a particular discipline of study ends up helping me tremendously in this role because I have background in communications, I have background in grassroots organizing and advocacy. I had background in policy. I had background in building relationships with legislators. I had a background in economic development that helps me and positions me well to be a great leader. Of these different teams and departments, because I kind of understand what they go through in the daily. So if you can have a robust, a robust background of your passions, I would say just have, uh, build that up really, uh, uh, really solid solidly. And then, uh, learn about leadership and executive skills, because then when it comes to problem solving, collaboration, and leading a team and building out a vision, uh, these are soft skills that like. You can't build unless you're doing it. And I would say studying and researching and talking to other leaders who have those roles are really necessary because you might be the most skilled person, uh, in different areas. But if you don't know how to be a leader and get the best out of people and how to treat people with respect and how to motivate people and how to understand and execute across like different departments, you'll fall really short.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

I really wanna emphasize that like, even as a polymath, if you come in, you're like, well, I understand all these things, but you don't have the executive leadership skills and the ability to rally people, uh, and on a shared vision, it'll be really hard to be successful in this type of role. So I would say emotional intelligence is imperative, uh, decision making and deductive reasoning, and then understanding people's like temperaments and personalities. I talk to all of my people with respect, but across the board, some of'em have different personalities. Some people are really charismatic and really animated. Some of my other people, I won't say their names are dry, so when I meet with them, like it's just a different conversation, but they all execute like. Beautifully, but they're different people so they need different types of motivations. And then some people are really in the, the weeds about like data and the minutia. And then other people like love the vision and the high level stuff and are more abstract. So like when I'm speaking to our public art person, I've talked to them different than I speak to like maybe our public works people just different. And I have that ability because I've been in a lot of different departments. I have a working class background, so like. I feel like I'm a chameleon socially and can have, uh, a lot of different conversations and motivate people and make those genuine connections. So I would say those, those are the three things that I would recommend. Learn a lot about your department and its histories and all the different, uh, functions that make your city run if you're wanting to be, uh, the public sector. Uh, but if it's an organization that's private, learn all the different departments in that private organization, right? Because they have a comms department, they have a marketing department, they have a operations department. Uh, they have their different kind of, uh, special interests. Learn all those as much as you can, at least have a, a entry level understanding. Uh, and then ensure that you have the leadership and executive, uh, kind of skill sets to coordinate. Like execute. And finally, uh, ask yourself like, how do you wanna show up as a leader, like as a model so people can, uh, feel confident and, uh, be happy and excited to, to work and take your leadership right, and be a part of that process. So figuring out your type of leadership is important. Mines is transformational and democratic. Uh, but you know, I have a mentoring background, so mentoring is really important to me.'cause I, I benefited from mentorship. Find out your leadership style and then be open. Uh, to tweaking it based upon the people you lead. And then the second question was more how people get involved in civics and advocacy.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Yeah, if they're, if someone's listening and say, Hey, I, you know, I'm not gonna go, you know, join a mayoral campaign or staff, but I do wanna participate in, in the democratic process and be more involved and a little bit more engaged. What are some ways that just citizens can, can become, uh, more informed, more involved, more engaged?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Uh, engage where you're at and find, uh, uh, you know, different ways to build relationships and identify problem areas and priorities of your neighbors and just talk to people, right? It's, it could be as simple as showing up to your library and seeing the different, uh, groups that they have organized. Most libraries will have different. Uh, events for the communities showing up to your coffee shop. I guarantee you that the bulletin board, see what other events people are organizing. Uh, it's, it's about showing up to the, the cultural events that are happening, I'm sure in people's different cities and finding ways to, uh, be a part of that, right? You don't necessarily have to be, uh, on the administrative side, I think it's, uh, duly important to have strong, robust ecosystems of. Grassroots organizations, nonprofits, and have a curiosity, right? I think community is a verb. It's an action. It's placemaking, world building and relationship building. So, uh, ask yourself those types of questions, like what kind of community do you want? Are there things that are missing? Uh, instead of like. Seeing that as like a negative, see as a opportunity, how do we fulfill this space? How do we, uh, engage in a way that, uh, brings and solve this problem that we don't have enough, we don't have enough like, uh, cultural events. Right? Let's start with that. Maybe that's something you go to city council with, or maybe that's something you talk to like your local neighborhood and like your apartment building, or there's local organizations that like. Would thrive if they had one or two more people who are volunteering monthly. Right. Those are the types of things you, I would, I say to do. And then as you're building, you might see a need like, oh, organization is in jeopardy of, uh, uh, of going out of, uh, of, uh, of existence. Maybe that's the time to go to city council. But you're already organized'cause you've been working with them for a while. So identifying the different issues and figuring out like, could we solve this on our own? Or is there room for the government to step in and support? And like I always tell people, like, I think we're always quick to be like, let's go straight to the government. You'd be very surprised about like how much you could do just as citizens and like residents and community members and, uh, always hold your government officials accountable because like that's why they're there. Right? That to be clear. Uh, but uh. The prereq requisite to anything, in my opinion, is to be organized, right? So if you wanna run a campaign, you have to be organized. If you wanna solve a local issue, you have to be organized. If there's an advocacy issue, you're, you're interested in engaging in, you have to be organized. And the better organized you are, uh, the more effective and efficient you can be because you can utilize that power and that critical mass to address those different problems. Go to city council, run that campaign, build that community garden, those seniors, whatever the case may be. Uh, you, you, uh, position yourself better when you are in relationship with the people around you.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

You offered so much there. Thank you so much. We'll definitely have the, the links to the nonprofits you're associated with in the show notes so people can take a look at that. Are there any other resources you would just leave people with if they wanna learn more?

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

I love that. Yeah. The last thing I, I would say is, uh, love your neighbor. And, you know, in these times, uh, one of our greatest assets is our bonds, right? So, uh, do not ever undervalue the effectiveness and power of a couple of people who care.

emily-sander_1_08-15-2025_110500:

Beautiful. Nick, thank you so much.

nicholas-richard-thompson---he-him-_1_08-15-2025_130459:

Absolutely. It was an honor. Thank you. I.