Leveraging Leadership

Building Credibility and Clarity in Moments of Uncertainty

• Jessa Estenzo • Season 1 • Episode 267

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0:00 | 45:35

Chief of Staff and crisis communication expert Jeff Evans shares lessons from working in the California legislature, discussing the importance of building relationships across the aisle and handling unexpected crises. He explains the difference between narrative framing and spin, and gives practical tips for leaders communicating in the first 24 hours of a crisis using a four-step framework: what we know, what we don’t know, what we’re going to do, and when we’ll update. They also cover real examples like the Boeing 737 MAX crisis, Southwest Airlines' business model changes, and handling tough school policy situations.


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Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.

 

Time Stamps:
01:43 Bipartisan Relationships

04:17 Narrative Framing vs Spin

06:55 Crisis Statement Framework

08:42 Precision Builds Credibility

13:47 Small Credibility Killers

15:43 Clarity Precision Narrative Model

19:13 Loglines and Lincoln Script

22:29 Leadership Logline Basics

25:18 Clarity In Crisis Comms

27:41 Tone Deaf Rulebook Lesson

35:16 Change Narratives And Alignment

Welcome back to Leveraging Leadership, where we unpack the art of business leadership. I'm your host, Emily Sander, chief of staff to an executive leadership coach. This show is all about finding your points of greatest influence and leveraging them to better serve those around you.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

My guest today is Jeff Evans, and we are gonna talk about chiefs of staff and crisis communication because as well as we'd like to plan for things and get everyone in the right spot and tee everyone up for success. Sometimes things are out of our control and they go sideways and we've gotta communicate. In rapid fire crisis communication. So Jeff is here to help us do that on a tactical and practical level. Jeff, welcome to the show.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Great. Thank you, Emily. Happy to be here.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Beautiful. So first of all, let's start with your background as a chief of staff in the legislature and you kind of have like it's all in the family with you.'cause your wife served as chief of staff for a state senator for about 10 years.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

So I served for a couple of years as the chief of staff for state assemblyman in California. And my wife's for a state senator for about 10 years. Um, she ran, it was a large district with three di with a couple district offices in Sacramento. And so she was up and down the state quite a bit. And uh, and then my role, we had a very large district too, but we just had the, the capital office and one district office. Um, but it, you know, it was still, it was still a challenging environment.

Bipartisan Relationships

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Just the capital office. Nothing. Nothing major. Um, what, uh, what did you learn in that role? What was your experience like?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

I tell you one of the, one of the things that's so interesting is, um, well, when you talk about crisis, there's always a crisis. Uh, it's just kind of the nature of the, the building and the, the politics that go in there. Um, but I tell you the, the thing. That was probably the best lesson for me was to have friends on both sides of the aisles. You know, I came from a time when people worked across the aisles together. Um,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Imagine that.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

I know exactly, and in fact, I actually just wrote a piece about this the other day and talked about how everything's escalated so much in politics. But there was a day when, you know, these guys would. Stand on the assembly floor and they would argue, and you know, it, it would sound so bitter. And then session would break and they'd all head over to, there was a local bar called Poseys or Frank Fatz, and that's where all the deals would be cut and they'd hang out together. And they were all friends. Generally, um, you don't have that as much anymore, but from a staff perspective, you still need to have that because. To have things, to make things happen. You need, you need friends on both sides. You just have to make it work. Um, there's just, especially in the legislative environment, there are complications with bills and, and, and there may be bills that conflict with one another, and you need to have those relationships to be able to work those out. And so I think that's just a, that was one of the important lessons I learned to then, and I think it's just as applicable now in that situation.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Absolutely. And you and I were talking about your campaign memorabilia in, in the background, um, uh, with the pins and buttons and flyers and everything. And I remember learning that, uh, JFK and Nixon, who were, you know, political rivals, had the, had the debates and everything, went to each other's weddings. And they knew each other when they first came up, which I was like, oh my gosh, that's, that seems so surprising for some reason.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

it's, it's so interesting and, uh, you know, you, but go back to the eighties and Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill. Uh, those two were, you know, always at odds, but they always, you know, they were really best of friends after, after hours and, and they worked things through too. So that, you know, there's a long history of that. I think you probably go back, go back even further and find the same types of

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

it's just, it's unfortunate how. Politics has devolved and society itself has devolved where, you know, we don't have those relationships as much anymore.

Narrative Framing vs Spin

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah. But they are the foundation for moving the world forward and also, you know, just, just building relationships on a human level with, with people. Um, so thank you for sharing that. And you've mentioned it there, but like. You are in political campaigns with news cycles and crises and messaging and narratives and credibility at stake and all these things. So, um, I'm interested to hear from you what is the difference between a, a narrative framing and spin.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Oh, sure. Um, well, spin is basically trying to bend reality. Uh, you know, it's, uh, and you know, the problem with that is once it's, once you push back with reality, it, the story collapses where you know your narrative frame that. You know, I like to describe it kind of, when you talk about frame, think of it as a picture frame and what's the picture look like inside. And you have the role to, you know, in your position and leadership position of defining what that, what that image is, and what your image is that you're putting forth. Uh, and the problem that a lot of leaders have is they aren't. They are incapable of defining that image and putting that narrative forth. Or they move too slowly and someone else defines that for them, and then it becomes somebody else's story about who you are. And so it's very important to be able to control your narrative and your frame, um, not allow that to get away from you.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

It's so interesting. What I thought you were gonna say is, um, they move too quickly and they kind of get out in front of their skis. I've certainly seen people do both, but if you're talking about maybe, um, going the other way where you kind of like get out ahead of a. Yourself. Oh, I gotta backtrack that. Um, is there any instances of that?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

that's actually it. It's a delicate balance because I see it more so in politics, but I do see it in business quite a bit too, where people do want to control the story. So they want to get out ahead and what they do is they end up talking too much. I. You know, they, uh, because they want to cover all the bases, even though they don't have all the facts yet. So, if it's a breaking story, for instance, um, you know, I think, uh, one example in this, you know, I don't know how timely this will be, but when you look at the beginnings of the, the Karen Guthrie kidnapping, uh, the sheriff, there was, you know, trying to get in.'cause everyone wanted information and so he was giving briefing after briefing. But so much of that was we believe, we think, and. You know, the, the, we believe narrative becomes facts in some people's ears. You know, they hear, we believe, and then when later something contradicts that, everybody wonders, well, what happened to credibility? And because, you know, again, it's trying to communicate more information than they had and answer questions. So there is a balance there. You want to, you want to be able to control the narrative, but you need to do it in a manner that's truthful and that will hold up to scrutiny.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

If you were giving advice to someone, um, a political leader, a business leader who had to make a statement or had to give an interview on something, uh, and maybe this is within the first 24 hours of a, of a news story breaking and they don't have all the facts, what are your, what are your advice and tips for that person?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

The first thing is the public will understand the, I don't know, phrase.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Mm hmm.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Um, so you don't have to know everything. And so what I, what I always tell everyone that I'm working with is it's very important to be very clear about what we do know, what we don't know, and what we're gonna do about it. And, you know, we, we can set up a, a very simple, uh, four step. Statement, essentially, it's like, here's what we know, here's what we don't know. Here's what we're gonna do, and this is when we're gonna come back to you with more information. And it, it's a very simple framework and it works in nearly every situation because you can control your messaging, uh, very, very simply. You know, just following that, that framework.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

I like that you included the last one. I think people skipped that a lot. And during COVID, I was chief of staff during COVID and we literally were having like twice a day standup meetings with our leadership team and we would be give. Updates to all hands folks, and we'd always say the next official meeting is, you know, it was a Tuesday on Thursday at at noon Pacific, and so we would always give them like a next date to check in on.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

And that's an important thing because one, it it bolsters your credibility because you're saying, Hey, I'm gonna be back here. you don't do that, then you just leave this gap and everybody starts wondering where are they, what are they doing? Are they hiding? Uh, but if you can be, the more specific you can be on that, the, the better it

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

you in the long run.

Precision Builds Credibility

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah. Well, you tagging off that precision credibility, not overstepping, but you, you've said precis, precis, precision is credibility. So how do you work in the points of precision while not getting out with your sleeve?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

comes down to, um, and again, it comes down to just what we were talking about in terms of when I'm. Uh, when I talk about precision, precision is a lot more about who you are and what you do than necessarily what you say. Um, so in a leadership environment, for instance, as a chief of staff with a, if with a boss, you know, are you. When you say you're gonna re return somebody's phone call, are you returning their phone calls? Do your meetings start on time? You know, do you show up on time? All of those things are part of your story that you're telling. And so when I talk about precision, I am. Basically saying, you know, what you're, do what you say you're gonna do. I mean, that's, that, that's the bottom line. And that's, that's really where the precision aspect comes into. I use a story, um, I, so I have a book and I, I use a story in there where I really saw this. Firsthand. It was a landing of Marine one on the, uh, white House lawn, and I was there and it was just, it was a great honor. We were gonna see the president leave for Camp David. It was, it was really exciting. And you watch the helicopter come in and it lands on these three aluminum discs on the lawn. It's not a big, you know, it's not like a big heliport. It's just three aluminum discs. And the pilot comes in. And he sets this down precisely. The discs are not that much bigger than the wheels themselves. I was just amazed watching this. And when I looked back at that, I thought about leadership and the precision there. You know, this wasn't a guy, there was no announcement about him. He didn't give a speech. There was no, no one telling us. This guy knows what he's doing. We just saw him do it, and it was impressive. I mean, it was just, he came in and landed perfectly and then, you know, the president left and they, they took off. And, but that just stuck with me. I mean, that was 40 years ago when I, when I

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Wow.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

just stuck with me ever since because that was absolute the, the embodiment of precision.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah, I mean the, the act of landing that helicopter so precisely was like that that guy has precision for days or that, um, pilot. I, it was really interesting you said that, uh,'cause I was thinking the story and the narrative was what you said and the precision was like in the content of what you were saying and you expanded that. To, it's, it's your total interaction with, with other people. So it's like the phone calls and follow ups and different things like that. So I think that's really interesting for, for people to hear. Is there anything else that you would bring into that where it's like, here's your story.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

here, I'll give an example. There was a, um, there's a person that I worked with, uh, he was a motivational speaker, great on stage, fantastic presentation. I mean, he, and he speaks all over the country. And, and, and, uh, you know, he just, he can, he can get the crowd going. He can get his message out. He's excellent. And, uh, you know, just a really nice guy. We're sitting in the lobby of a hotel waiting, um, for, he was sitting there with his little entourage and they're waiting for a, um, their. Ride to wherever they were going. And somebody comes walking by, has a, a hat on his head that has a, an eagle on it, an American flag, and the speaker calls him over and, and engages him in a conversation, asks him about the hat and you know, where he got it and all sorts of things. It was just, it was a nice little pleasant conversation. The guy walked around, walked away, you know. Probably feeling pretty good. This guy, you know, had asked about his hat. Soon as he is out of earshot, the speaker turns to his group and says, what a chump. He actually thought I liked his hat.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

for me, I know, can you believe that? So for me that's, that a perfect example of precision where. You're not, you know, he can say one thing, but do something completely different and it sticks with, you know, that story, you know? And so as, as people experience things like that, sticks, that's his story. And so his credibility then. starts to decline in the minds of people that are familiar with certain actions that happen. So it's, you know, there, there's so much to precision that is beyond, you know, the, the specific words you use, uh, you have to realize, and again, coming from working in the political arena. you do, everything you say is scrutinized. Uh, it's, you know, it's an amplified version of that, but it translates as well in business too. And you see it all the time where business leaders that say one thing, but are living something totally different,

Small Credibility Killers

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

And the margin for error with that kind of stuff is so small Now, as you say, I mean, you used to be, I mean, talk, talking about JFK before he got away with a whole bunch of stuff that would not be, that would not fly today. But you have to be that precise. Um, that example you gave was interesting. I was like, well. Why did you call him over and talk about his hat in the first place? Just, just let him go. But uh, yeah. Interesting. Okay. Um, are there any other signals, kind of little, small signals that would erode someone's credibility? The example you gave me to me is like a blatant signal. Like just don't be a, don't be a jack hat about something,

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

right. Well,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

but anything small things.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

again, I think a lot of it comes down to, um. Ex your execution is really what it is. And so if you, you know, I've, I've had, I've people that I've worked with that are perpetually late, uh, where, you know, even, even to something as simple as, you know, a casual dinner with friends and they'll be an hour late to that,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

An hour.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

it comes to meetings and, and you know, and, and phone calls or whatever, they just can't. Get to their timeframe that they've committed to, and, and that just says a lot and it just, it harms everything that you're trying to verbally say. If people know they can't count on you to actually deliver, when you know on something as simple as, I'm gonna be their 4:00 PM

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

It, it, uh, is disrespectful at some point. Uh, once in a while, ev, you know, everyone has a something that comes up, but man, yeah, those people's like, all right, he's always, he's always late. That's just the type of person that, that he is can't really count on.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

people like that, that you know, and,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh, yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

but it, it registers with you. And so

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

a leadership per that's something you don't wanna project.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah, so I'm kind of hearing that for crisis communication, there's a lot of groundwork that has to be done beforehand. Ideally you set the foundation where it's like, here's who I am as a person. So you have context and you have data points, and then when something spikes and when something happens, then we're gonna, you know, everyone's in crisis mode, but I'm gonna be able to speak to you, and you're gonna believe me and I'm gonna be able to say something to you, and you'll know that it'll get done.

Clarity Precision Narrative Model

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Exactly. And you know, one of the, so I've kind of got a three, three-prong approach to this. Uh, it's clarity, precision, and narrative. Uh, we haven't really talked about clarity. Clarity is, um. In a lot of ways it could be your mission statement. Um, I do a lot of screenwriting and so like for us, um, you have what's called a log line, and that's essentially the spine of your story. It's a one or two sentence thing, um, that tells you what the story is, and you need to be able to have that in your mind, you know, be able to tell what our mission is. Um, even if it's, you know, let's, let's say you're just. You've lost a, a large contract and you're gonna have to reorganize because of that. Well, you need to be able to say upfront with clarity that this is what we're doing. It's, this is a reorganization phase because we don't have the income that we had before. Something like that. Um, you know, a lot of, uh. Uh, a lot of times, if you can, if you have that solid clarity of who you are, that will help drive your narrative down the road. If once you have a, a, some type of a, a catastrophe, whether it's, you know, a lost client or uh, a CEO that's had a scandal or, or whatever, um, you know, there, there are things like that. Um, the other, and then the other thing in terms of going back to the idea of precision. A lot of times you wanna think through. Um, you know, I've talked with crisis communication people a lot, and one of the most effective things, a lot of peop lot companies that have a, a good sized team, they are constantly brainstorming, you know, what could come up?

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Hmm.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

what are all the po potential, uh, pitfalls we could run into? Uh, in political campaigns, we do the same thing, you know, in fact, a lot of times. becoming more and more com common where when you bring on a client, the first thing you do is you hire an opposition researcher to research your client. Uh, because you want to know all of the skeletons in the closet before the other side knows. Um, so that's a very important thing to, to do. Um, I'll give you an example. One of the, one of the things that I was following that, that was very interesting was when, uh, Boeing had their problem with their, um, their 7 37 max.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

They had the couple of crashes, you know, they used just standard talking points to try to deflect it and immediately blamed it on pilot error. Uh, then kind of went into almost a bunker mentality, uh, not wanting to acknowledge that there could be a poss possible problem with their airline. And unfortunately what happened was that allowed. Outside forces to define the, the issue.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yep.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

it became this whole story about Boeing's more concerned about, you know, costs and pushing things through and they're not gonna take responsibility. And it was all because they didn't have a game plan and they hunkered down too much, uh, in that, uh, in that situation. So I, I think that. more you can know the spine of your company, your, uh, your story, and, and just have that ingrained in you. And then prepare and, and think through, um, you know, potential scenarios so that you can at least be prepared when something does happen.

Loglines and Lincoln Script

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

I think being clear about who you are and what you're about beforehand is key, because if you're trying to figure that out in the winds of, you know, a crisis, that's, you know, good luck to you. Um, just to go back to the log line for a second,'cause I'm a movie buff. Can you give me an example of like, you know, not the exact log line for a movie, but just an ex like to general example of like, here's a movie here, might be their log line for that movie.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Right. So, um, so here's the log line. This is actually a script that I just, um, actually just won a contest with. Um, but it's, uh, the nation sits on the brink of war, Allen Pinkerton uncovers a plot to assassinate President, elect Abraham Lincoln, and he must. Pull out all stops to save Lincoln, um, aboard the midnight train.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

whoa. Okay.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

based on a true story, uh, a lot of people don't know this, but there was an assassination temp on on Abraham Lincoln. And so what the storyline is is. This Detective Alan Pinkerton, who of the Pinkerton Detective Agency. So everybody knows that, and this was before he'd really had found his fame. He uncovers this plot to kill Lincoln and he comes up with his plan to smuggle Lincoln through Baltimore.'cause you had to, you had to go through, it was kind of an interesting situation. Lincoln was taking the train from Springfield, um, from his hometown in Springfield to Washington, DC for the inauguration. To do that, they had to change trains in. Baltimore. And so the, the plot was to have a crowd rabble rouse and everything else. And in the, in the melee, somebody would kill Lincoln.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Huh.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Pinkerton comes up with this plan to smuggle Lincoln through Baltimore in the middle of the night on the midnight train, you know, for the midnight train. And it, it's an exciting thing. But that's an, that's an example of how. You know, a a a one sentence Logline will give you the spine of the story. I mean, it's basically the whole story, but encapsulated in that one, one sentence or two sentences.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm gonna rabbit hole us for just a second because, uh, I love Abraham Lincoln and I believe I, I'm fairly certain that on the train ride to his inauguration, he stopped at one point to see his mother. And this is documented. However, the conversation they had is not documented, and I've always wondered like what they spoke about. I don't know if that would be before or after this assassination attempt.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

his way to the inauguration, he actually stopped at his mother's grave. His mother had died before that and she didn't see him. he hadn't, uh,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

This might be his stepmother then? Yes. The one that she,

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

have

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

close to.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

yeah, I don't

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

I know that when I was researching this, I know that on his way, that was one of the stops that he made on his way to Washington was

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

uh, for his mother.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Okay, I'll double check. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was someone who was alive and they had a conversation and people have said like he stopped for, he spent overnight, but then he popped back on the train. But

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

There's

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

would you say to,

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

okay, well there is another story that's really, that's really, it's a cute story. Uh, there was this little girl who wrote to, uh, Lincoln, um, suggesting that he grow a beard

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

he did stop and he saw the little girl on the way to

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh,

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

her

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

okay.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

had,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

That's cool.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

grown the beard and, and did she approve? It was a, you know, that was a cute story As

Leadership Logline Basics

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

That's cool. Very cool. Okay, we're gonna get back on track now, but I love Abraham Lincoln, so thank you. Um, so you gave us an example, like a real life example of a log line for a leader for a company. What would be. The equivalent of a log line for like a company or for like someone's leadership? Uh, just leadership presence or style or, or how would you do?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

you know, the company themselves is, you know, your log line's gonna be, what are you doing? Um, you know, we're, we're in the business of manufacturing the best airplanes in, in the country, and. Something along that line where, you know, you're focused on your product or your service that you're delivering, um, for a, a log line or a, a clarity line for a leader. Um, you know, a lot of times that's, uh, personal, personal goals. You know, I'm, I'm, you'll see it in terms of, you know. I'm gonna be trustworthy and, you know, I'm gonna lead with, you know, with authority or com. Uh, George Bush is a great example of that. When he was president, his big thing was compassionate, compassionate, conservative. You know, that was, that was

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yep.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

defined himself. And just a, a simple sentence, uh, you'll see that with a lot of political camp candidates too. And so, from a leadership perspective in business or, um, or, or wherever you are, it's, you know, what do you wanna be known for? Um, you know, I think, um, you'll see with a lot of, um, innovative people, um, you know, I'm just, my mind's kind of rolling right, right through some of the, the big names like the Elon Musk, the Steve Jobs, um, the Jeff Bezos. You know, if you, if you would have a. Log line for them. You know, a lot of the, a lot of it is just, it's innovation and, um, you know, and, and one step a ahead of everybody, you know, trying to always improve.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking back to some of my companies. I mean, one, one company I worked for early in my career, uh, their like purpose and mission for being was to help eradicate child pornography from the internet. And so it was like, Hey, do we take on this strategic partner? Do we make this move with funding? Do like, does this get us closer? To eradicating child pornography on the internet or not. And so that was kind of the guiding principle. So I, I think what I'm hearing from you is take that, um, concept and apply it to a leader and or a company, and then whatever scenario you're in, asking yourself, you know, is, is this closer, further away from what I wanna stand for?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Does it further your OB objection or does it get you off track from what you're trying to do?

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yes. So I would say to the listener, for listeners right now, do you know your log line? Do you know what you stand for and what your team does and what your company stands for? Um, are you clear about that? Are you clear about that individually? And then is your team clear about that?'cause those can be two totally different answers.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

you know, a lot of times that come down to situational sit, um, loglines as well. Um,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Hmm.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

used before, you lost the big contract and you're having to downsize, uh, that. That can become your new spine for, for that season. You know, this is what we're having to do, but it just needs to be something very clear that you can, you can spit out. Um, you know, we're in a reorganization phase, we're in a growth Uh, you know, whatever it is, just be able to explain it so that people understand, especially if you're addressing your employees. Um, you know,'cause the last thing you want to do is speak in fog where. You leave a lot of questions for your employees, uh, especially if you're in a, a crisis situation and management hungers behind closed doors, and then rumors start spreading and, uh, you know, the story gets away from you. So, uh, you want clarity is so important in, in any kind of a crisis situation like that.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

One principle that I've learned over and over and over again is if you don't say anything. It doesn't mean people stop thinking about it or stop spinning up stories. They will fill the gap with their own story and they'll make, have to make guesses'cause you're not giving them any information. So, uh, I think it's, you know, in those situations over communicate, um, is the, is the default mode.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Right. You either you've, you've gotta find that balance because you don't want to hunker down and not say anything, but you don't wanna over communicate when you don't know all of the facts. So it is, it's just, it's finding that balance because you wanna get out front of something but you don't want to. Leave people with more questions or, or, um, you know, when facts become available, if something you've said is contradicted by the facts yeah, then that really hurts your credibility and, um, causes all the more, um, distrust and, and other issues that'll come from that.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yes, and there's, you know, there's cases of like he said, she said type of thing, and then there's empirical verifiable 180 degree contradiction to what you just said. And that just smacks you in the face.

Tone Deaf Rulebook Lesson

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

exactly, and, and you know, most times I times. Umto the story, uh, more than anything else. I, I'll give another example of one. This was, um, large church in California. Um, kind of a church that has a, a Christian school attached to it. And they had, you know, they had a dress code and a policy, you know, policy handbook everybody signed before at the beginning of the school year, the end of the school year, uh, middle school student. Showed up at school, he was the valedictorian of their class. He was gonna give the valedictorian speech, shows up with a super short haircut, the policy book had a policy in there saying no shaved heads because they were, this was a situation where I think it was, you know, they were trying to distance themselves. They didn't want the skinhead.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Sure. Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

on or whatever. So that was part of the reason the policy had been adopted. This young child, um, shows up with his short haircut and the administrators overreact and tell'em, I'm sorry, you've broken the rules. You can't give your speech, you

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh no.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

to the graduation. Uh, the, um, what was. this then turned into was this media firestorm because the young child was black and um. The media jumped onto it as a racist thing, which it wasn't. Uh, and the pastor of the church was soon confronted by the press,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

now whether they had not talked this through or thought this through, but he just gave a very what sounded very cold answer, rules of the rules, and that's it. Boom. And there was just no. You know, does the punishment fit the crime type of a thing? And it was just such a, such a great example of leadership that was tone deaf. That yes, there was a rule, but does that rule really apply? And was the punishment really justified for what rule was broken? I mean, for, for any other rule that was broken in there, would that same punishment have. Been, been levied. And anyway, it just became a, uh, a massive problem for the, the school and the church. And, uh, it, it just, it, it went on for quite a while and they never did, uh, years later, they, they had the, the child, older child, you know, at that point back, bought'em back and apologized to'em and, you know, kind of did a Maya culpa. But at the time it was just, um, such an example of. Leadership that didn't lead. I mean, they just, they, they kind of just looked at a, a hard, took a hard line on a book and, uh, and I think people would've understood had they explained it more, more consistently, why this was, and or my, had I been advising them, I would've said more so it was, um. We're gonna, you know, I would've stated this appears to have been a violation of the rules, but it was not an intentional violation. And so as a result of that, you know, I, I think they could have had some wiggle room to not have a harsh punishment because was this an intentional violation that, you know, in your face type of a thing, which I don't think it was at all. But anyway, it was just one of those, uh, challenging strategies for, uh, for leadership. And it was a great example of what not to do. In a situation like that.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

When leadership doesn't lead. Ooh, that's a, that's a good quote. And my mind goes like, are there not creative solutions that you could kind of take in this situation that would, you know, still get the kid as valedictorian speech.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

and that was, you know, that, and that, that's why I said, you know, to me right away it was, is if, if it wasn't a willful violation of, of the rule, and honestly it might've even been a such an obscure thing. Nobody even knew that was there. But the, the principle happened to remember that.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Buy the book, man. Yeah. Okay.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

yeah, it was, it was a crazy situation. So I've

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

of those over the years that, you know, it just, I file'em away in my mind it's like, ah, yes, that's not how to react. I will

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Don't do that. Yeah. If, if you were that principal and in that situation and you had to make a log line for like this, like, okay, we got this big graduation ceremony coming up. This is our valedictorian speech. Oh, he has a buzz cut or short haircut or whatever, and you had a staff meeting, what would your framing and log line be in that situation?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

So my framing on that one would've, would've been, um. Yes, we have the rule. Yes, technically he violated the rule, but he didn't do it intentionally to harm us. This would be a great opportunity to reevaluate the rule and see if that's something going forward that we wanna keep in the books or modify. And then I would've, um, I would've explained that to the child, um, but probably allowed him to, you know, to speak. Um, because I just don't see where the punishment, especially on the last day of school, uh, type of thing where it, I just don't think that that. do any positive thing by denying somebody you know what they rightfully earned.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah. Yeah. And um, I'm thinking through chiefs of staff I know and how they might use a log line. Is this something where, hey, we have this unexpected. Of events and we we're calling a leadership huddle. Here's my overall principle or guidance or just, here's, here's how I'm gonna frame this. You, you all team members might have to go in your respective functional groups and apply this theme, um, to some specificity that I won't know about, but you've gotta take this sentiment and spirit and go kind of communicate that or deploy that to your functional groups. Is there, am I thinking about that the right way, or is it a little bit different?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

I think you are. And so like, let's go back to the context of this, this church, uh, this, you know, this is a Christian school. Christian Church. Um. When you get down to the Christian message of love, our reaction reflect what?

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Hmm.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Should be our spine, our logline of we are a church of love, you know, and you know, Jesus said to love one another. Um, you know, and I think that's where they really kind of blew it on, not not understanding the spine of what they are. They went straight to the rules. The rules or the rules with no grace there. But you. The church should be about grace. So

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

in that regard, that's kind of where I think they missed their logline, their spine on that. Um, because that should have been their guiding principle, not the rules or the rules as the guiding principle, because I don't think that would've been what the church or the school itself really believed. Um, it just, you

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

unfortunately that's what they leaned into.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah, rules or the rules doesn't have the same ring as love God in your neighbor.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Yes,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Little bit, little bit different message there, but, um, taking that general concept you just outlined, I just wanna kind of expand on that for the listeners. It might be like you're. Highest level, um, principle, for lack of better phrase. So, you know, love God, love your neighbor. And then there might be, uh, kind of closer and concentric circles to like this specific scenario. Here's the one. But also they always have to align to like, what's our overall

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

And

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

principle.

Change Narratives And Alignment

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

and that's the idea there is that, you know, what is your overall theme and then how does everything that you do. Align with that, uh, you know, because sometimes it's very easy to start getting off off course. Uh, you know, we've got an interesting situation right now with, um, Southwest Airlines. They just changed their complete business model. Uh, you know, they, they got rid of the free air free bags, used to be able to check two bags for free, and now they've got assigned seating and. Pay for better seats. You know, they've basically gone to the same model that everyone else uses. And

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yep.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

thing that was their differentiator is no longer their differentiator. And yet haven't been able to explain that in a manner that is resonating with its customer base. And so it's customer base. I was just reading a whole bunch of stuff this last, uh, last weekend. Just people that are irate. Um, and, uh, you know, I've flown Southwest since they made the change. I personally didn't find it, you know. Too much of a problem, but I understand where people are coming from because if you liked the system of, you know, the open seating and you liked the free bags. I can see why you'd be totally offended by that. And unfortunately, Southwest Management hasn't been able to put forward why these changes are beneficial to the customer. And so what's happening is this narrative that's building that the changes are only beneficial to the company and to their investor class. And it's the activist investors that forced this change, whereas Southwest. Has some opportunity to come back and, you know, and define this as a benefit for,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

They just haven't effectively done it. I, I think that they've tried, but they haven't done an effective, uh, means of this. Um, a great ex great example they could use is for years people have complained about how pe, how, um. were abusing the system by getting wheelchairs to cut the front of the line. And you

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

these situations where you'd have 15 wheelchairs lined up at the beginning of a flight, but then when people were departing the flight, only one or two needed wheelchairs to get off the flight. Exactly, and it's a, it, it's a great case study that Southwest could make that look, we've already cleared this part up right here. I mean, this is something people complained about we've taken care of because that has dropped dramatically from, um, the, at least the reports that I've, I've read on, you know, the online stuff that I've read that people are joking about, well, at least the wheelchairs are gone now. Uh, but they're, you know, if, if they would just. Find a way to show the benefit to the consumer, uh, because right now it just looks like a corporate power play and they have just become, just like every other airline and you know, they're gonna, they're, they may really struggle with their, you know, with their, their base, especially if they're Starts matching everyone else's pricing too, because they used to be a little bit less than everyone. And you, you put up with the, the quirks of the, the open seating, which I always thought worked pretty well.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah. That's so funny. That's what Southwest is known for. So if they're, if they don't have that, they're literally just like everyone else. Really interesting to see what happens there. Yeah. I mean, what you're saying reminds me of when I would announce change, just, you know, to any group that I was in, I would try to be. Neutral and objective. And I always would literally tell people, like, change in and of itself is neutral. You could have a positive change. You could have a negative change. People tend to slap a negative label on uncertainty, but that doesn't mean it's automatically gonna be bad. Um, and then kind of like you were outlining, um, even just sharing. The facts, like, here's the stuff that is probably not gonna land great with you, but I'm gonna be open and transparent about that and here's the data of why we made this decision and here's some benefits that could transpire that we're hoping do that. That type of thing where you like lay all the cards on the table and hopefully, you know, people can make their decision on their own, but you lay all that out for them.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Exactly, and especially when you're dealing with customers, be. There's gotta be a benefit for the customer or the

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Mm-hmm.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

gonna walk because there's so many other choices out there. Um,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

an interesting parallel to this was Delta Airlines last year changed their Sky, sky Miles program, and they

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

from a mileage based program to a dollars based program. So the more money you spent. Then you worked your way up in status. But they repeated that over and over and over about the benefits that this would be, and they were able to really neutralize the criticism pretty quickly. Uh, you know, they, it was kind of a model of, you know, they just kept pushing the benefits for the consumer. This is, this will benefit you. You may not see it immediately, but this is gonna be a benefit to you. And now whether it really was, or people just started believing it, I don't know, but. They did what they needed to do is they put it forward as this is a benefit for the consumer rather than just something that looked like a benefit for the company itself.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Yeah, and I think as chief of staff, I can imagine so many times where. You, you can have a hand in coordinating that message if the, if the customer is employees, like getting that message out there early and often, and then arming your customer service reps who might be talking to actual end users. Like here's the benefits and giving them all the talk tracks and things, and not in a, not in a spin way, but in a accurate, here's why we're doing this and here's the benefit that we think. Will result in it. So I think that's really, uh, really interesting and and effective to outline. Um, Jeff, I could talk to you forever, but let me try, wrap things up here. So we've got clarity, narrative, precision, um, we've got a little bit of your time as chief of staff and certainly politics. We've got screenwriting in there. Anything else that, uh, you wanna throw in that we didn't cover?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Well, I think the other thing is just, and I go into this in my book just because I went through it, is alignment and what happens when your leader isn't living up to what he says he is doing. You know, if the story that he's telling. Publicly is different than the story he's leading. Uh, I went through this myself where I had a situation where I had a huge project I was working on. I just, I felt like this was my calling. I was absolutely meant to do this, and I ignored all of the indicators that. This isn't right yet. You know, you're, you're push and I'm just pushing this on my own because I just knew I was called to do it. And eventually the whole project collapsed. My fin financial system situation collapsed. It was a, it was a real, um, challenging time for us, but I really learned from that because I can really see how I was not in alignment. I mean, what I was saying was not what knew was right, because I knew that there were the, um. The challenges that were there, the, the, the road, the things that, you know, I, I was papering over. It's like, oh, they'll all work out in the end because, and so, you know, one. Think about is how you deal with a leader like your boss, um, who is in that type of a situation. How do you advise him through that and get him out of that? Uh, you know, one of the, one of the most important things I think for leaders, and a lot of'em don't have this, is mentors or, uh, accountability partners as 1, 1, 1 way to put it. Um, somebody that will say, hold it. That's not. A good idea or that's not you. Uh.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

you're forcing that. Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Yeah. And uh, and it's hard and you know, especially the farther up to the corporate ladder you go because, you know, you end up having a lot of Yes men

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Oh yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

And so, you know, I go back to that motivational speaker, you know, not one of his entourage said anything to him when he

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Hmm.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

comment. And, you know, and so. It's a challenge for leaders to, you know, have the people that they can lean on that will, you know, pull them back from the, the brink, um, you know, and, and hold them accountable. But it's important, you know, and, and we've seen it. I mean, you see it in, in all sorts of, you see it in businesses, you see it in churches, you see it in government. I mean all over, uh, leaders of that. You know, whether they start believing their own press, they, you know, or, or, um, you know, get involved with the extramarital affairs or whatever it is. They be, they have this view of themselves of being as, being invincible and, you know, it's a. chiefs of staff, I think it's incumbent one for us to serve that role, to help be that, you know, um, Jiminy Cricket on the shoulder, conscience of

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Truth to power. Yeah.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

the boss. Um, or help them, help steer them to somebody that can be that mentor that, that, um, that person, because E everybody needs that.

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Absolutely. I think two great lessons there. Chiefs of staff, you have a special, unique. Relationship with your principal, you have to use it to speak truth to power sometimes, not all the time to nitpick and all that stuff, but when it comes down to it, you might be the only person who's gonna say something and that could change a decision. And then the second takeaway I got out of that would be, um, if you're an executive listening to this, if you're a CEO, the higher you go. On the corporate ladder, the more you need to surround yourself with people who will tell you the truth, because you will think you're the exception to the rule and you've gotta make sure you have that, that structure and process in place so you don't go totally off, off the off the wagon.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Yep,

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Um. Yes. All right. Well, Jeff, thank you so much again for the time. If people wanna pick up your book or tap you for, um, a speaking spot or a facilitation workshop facilitation, where can they find you?

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

thing to do is visit. I've got a website, who is jeff evans.com? Pretty simple. Who is jeff

emily-sander_1_03-10-2026_130257

Beautiful. Beautiful. That's a good one. A good, uh, domain to snag. But we'll have that in the show notes. And, uh, Jeff, thank you once again.

jeff-evans_1_03-10-2026_160257

Uh, Emily, thank you. This has been a pleasure.

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