The BOLD Framework for Leaders: Outlast Adversity and Disrupt the Norm

Audley Stephenson shares his journey from basketball fan to podcast host and sports league commissioner, highlighting how audacity shaped his life and career. He explains the BOLD Framework for living audaciously, discusses meeting Kobe Bryant, and debunks myths about audacity by showing it's not reserved for elite achievers or reckless acts. Audley also talks about building self-awareness, celebrating small wins, and the importance of taking action.

Links Mentioned:
Audley Stephenson’s Podcast

Audley Stephenson’s Website

Get in touch with Emily:
Want to chat with Emily? Book a quick clarity call here.

Free Leadership Resources

LinkedIn

Website

Newsletter

Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.

Time Stamps:
02:07 Origin of Audacity

04:09 Basketball Podcast Breakthrough

06:26 Pandemic Pivot to Purpose

10:29 Bold Framework and Myths

23:20 Affirmations Need Action

24:47 Courage Before Confidence

25:20 Reframing Failure as Data

27:51 Bold Leadership Decisions

35:11 Audacity Myths and Legacy

Transcript

0:06

Welcome back to Leveraging Leadership, where we unpack the art of business leadership. I'm your host, Emily Sander, chief of staff to an executive leadership coach. This show is all about finding your points of greatest influence and leveraging them to better serve those around you.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 0:25

My guest today is Oddly Stevenson, and oddly is the host of the Audacious Living Podcast. With over 600 episodes dedicated to helping people live life audaciously through bold conversations, real stories, and purposeful living. Side note, years ago I was on Odd Lee's podcast. This was before I knew anything about anything. I barely knew my name and what a microphone was, and he was a very gracious host and so I was thrilled when he reached out and were able to do this pod swap. And, um, we'll talk all about Audacity and what you do in your work.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 1:01

first and foremost, thank you for being, and I, and I gotta say it. It's, it's so, so. Cool. When I saw that you had a podcast, I gotta tell you, Emily, I was so excited. I really was for you. I mean, I've been in the podcasting space for a long time and I, and I love it. And so when I see others branch out and try and, you know, do that audacious thing by starting something they've never done before, it just naturally excites me. So I'm really happy that, uh, uh, you, you, uh, you've step stepped into this space, if you will. Um,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 1:26

And I will just say again, I mean, I was green brand new. I lis I went back When you reached out, I listened to the old and I was like, I could barely watch that thing. I could, I was like, it was such bad quality of Mike and Cameron and everything. And the, the, the content was decent to good, but the delivery was questionable. So you were a trooper and I, I remember before and after the air, air on air, you were very gracious and walk me through. So I, I remembered the feeling that I had being on your show. So thank you. Thank you once again.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 1:55

th thank you for saying that. And you know, listen, the, the first time we do anything is never great. Like, that's just the reality. And I think what happens is, you know, we have, we, we have to, you know, kind of fight through that.

Origin of Audacity

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 2:05

Love it. Love it. So you. Named your podcast, audacious Living. You titled your book with the word audacity. So where did that come from? Where did that, uh, generate from?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 2:17

Yeah, I, I realized, I, I remember sort the point when I realized I had a love affair with the word audacity. Um, and, and it's actually interesting'cause what it, it's, I'm, I'm sort of go back a little bit and talk, give you some history because it's, it's, it's, you know, I truly believe when we stop and kind of look back, we can see kinda where all the dots connect, right? So life doesn't make forward going forward, but when you go back, it's, you're like, oh, okay. And you're um. Uh, uh, it was ba back in 2007, so, so I'll go back there. I decided I was always, always been a big basketball fan, loved the game of basketball, and I decided in 2007 that I was going to work here. I mean, here in Toronto, Canada, there is a, a sports channel, 24 hour sports channel. Uh, and I decided I'd, I'd go and work there as an intern, right? Given an opportunity to be in that space. And in my mind when I was done, I'd be an on air reporter. They'd love me. Be doing All right. That's what I, that's what I believed. Well, um, it didn't exactly go that way, you know? So I started, and I did a great job. I spent a lot of time in the archives department back when they still had VHS tapes. Like

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 3:16

boy.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 3:16

what I was doing. And, um, uh, they, you know, at the end of that term, they were happy to see me. They're happy to have I was there. They gave me a great handshake and a little parting gift and said, thank you very much. And I remember walking away going, oh, that was very uneventful. Like, what happened? And I, I remember feeling like, oh, that. I was a failure. Like literally that was my thought. I'm like, I failed it. Oh my gosh. And, and, and I, and I thought that way because what I expected didn't actually happen. Um, but one of the cool things that happened is I met a gentleman by the name of Dave Menka and Dave Menka was an on air reporter, and similar to myself, um, he was a big basketball fan. I kinda wanna put it in context because, uh, when you're in Toronto, Canada, um, a co, a country that's ruled by hockey. Basketball is really low on the, on the radar, if you will. Like,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 4:03

Tier. Yeah.

Basketball Podcast Breakthrough

Pandemic Pivot to Purpose

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 4:03

yeah, it's not, you're not even, it's not even consideration, but to guys like Dave and myself, like it was, was a big deal. And so we started talking, so about, probably about a year after the internship ended, you know, he and I had reconnected on Facebook, Hey, how you doing? I said, connect with you. Oh my gosh, whatever. And through that conversation, we somehow, I don't know. Why we, how, how it happened exactly. But we landed, we, we agreed that we were gonna start a podcast about NBA basketball. At the time, we didn't even know what a podcast was. We just heard of it and said, Hey, let's do this thing. So in 2008, we launched what was called, it was called the NBA Breakdown with Dave. And oddly, now, the cool thing about this is we, we, because you know, you can, you go on the internet, right? All of a sudden there's no barrier. There's no barriers, right? You're just international right away. And so. People were really fascinated that you had this big, tall black guy and this little short white, Portuguese guy, and we were arguing about basketball. It just became a novelty and we gained a lot of popularity, a lot of traction, and uh, fast forward, probably about a year into it, all of a sudden we were, we had received. Uh, credentials, uh, by the Toronto rappers. So now we're in NBA locker rooms interviewing these players that we were just giddy over, right? So LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, all the grace, Kevin Garnett, like just player after player after player. And we were, you know, thrilled to the moon and it was really excited to be a part, such a fun time. Such an enjoyable experience when, so I podcast ran for about five years, but in 2011, um, the NBA went on what's called a, a lael. And so they went on, you know, basically there was no basketball being played. In that same year, um, the, there was a league, a basketball league started here in Canada called the National Basketball League Canada. And so I figured, well, since there's no NBA, know, I am an NBA credential podcaster, why not move over to the NBL Canada and work with them? And I did, and I, I sold myself as this experienced podcaster. They took me on, they loved it, and I started to work with them and then. Five years. Um, and I'm gonna fast forward a little bit, but, but five or six years into it, suddenly this league that I approach as to, to be the pod, to be a podcaster, I was appointed to be the league commissioner. So now I am running and managing this league. A lot happened between that, but a lot. But, but all of a sudden I'm, I'm managing this league. And of course, as a basketball guy, first and foremost, I'm thrilled to the moon. Oh my gosh. You know, I'm in a dream job. This is great. And things were going, were were moving beautifully until we, we reached this thing called the Pandemic in 2020 when everything stopped. And we all can relate to kind of what happened for us. And I literally felt myself going through this, this, this, this depression almost, if you will, right? Where I was like, uh, I was like, what? What happened to me and what was going on? And I didn't, I didn't know what was, you know, I didn't know what was going on. I, I just felt like I was. In this state of depression. I realized, I remember it was literally, I was in a conversation with someone. They had said to me, oh, um, I said, oh, ever since I lost basketball. And then Emily in that moment, I'm like, that's it. I don't have basketball. That's the way I feel the way I do. And I decided, okay, you know what? I need to re re restart myself. And I decided that I would get back into podcasting because it was simple as easy. And I thought to myself, okay, so what do I want a podcast about? They wanna do basketball, I wanna do something that was different. And in that point, I did a snapshot and I kind of looked back at my life and I said, okay, what have I done? Where have I, you know, what have I accomplished? And I realized in that moment that every major accomplishment, uh, every milestone and a victory, there was that red thread of audacity. If I didn't take that chance, if I didn't decide to go to the score to work at that sports channel, if me and my friend didn't start. Decide to start this brand new think all podcast. And we never heard of, if we didn't approach the NBA, if I didn't turn around and approach NBL Canada, I wouldn't have been the commissioner. Like all of these things. And that's when I truly start to understand and realize the power of audacity and the impact in our lives. And, and then when you continue to dig and dig deeper, you realize, as I did is that that that threat of audacity experience was in my entire life. In fact, when I even go back for. Further. And I looked at my parents, I said, oh my gosh, I can see it in them. And I saw why they did that. And you think of the journey of a, uh, my, you know, my parents in the seventies came from Jamaica to Canada. Well, the, the, the immigrant story, that in itself is audacious. And so there was so many pieces of that that made sense to me. I'm like, yep, audacity is the way to go. And it's just been, and as I've, the deeper I've gotten to, the more I've realized how much of a, a powerful and transformational force it truly, truly is.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 8:36

Love it. Thank you for sharing your, your story there. I have to ask you, you mentioned Kobe Bryant and he is like, he is just amazing. Uh, the late great Kobe Bryant. What was it like meeting him, interacting with him? What did he teach you about Audacity?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 8:49

I, I will tell you, he, he, he has this, uh, this air around him. So I, I've, you know, you know, I, I remember, you know, growing up in the Michael Jordan era and everyone talked about this air that he had around him, and, um, I would. Vividly. Remember we were in a locker room and it was the media scrum and you know, all the, all you know, all this reporters stick their, you know, their mics in his face. Absolutely. And so I put mine in there, right. And I would wait and ask my question, but you know, I just remember he spoke with such a coolness and a calmness, and you can just feel the confidence front like you like. There was no question that I knew I was in the presence of greatness. There was. It was you. You felt it right away. And so Kobe was one of those people that you just felt right away and, and you didn't question it and you, and you kind of looked at it with a bit of an awe, and as crazy as it sounds like, I felt like I could see like a glow around him, like, you know what I

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 9:41

Yeah. Yeah, I've watched interviews with him where I literally get like chilled down my spine, and that's just through a screen. It's just like he knows what he's about and he's always just pushing him like, was this before or after Black Mamba? He, he did the

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 9:55

so

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 9:56

Mamba.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 9:57

this was in 2008, so No, this was, this was, um, after,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 10:02

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was, when he speaks about that on stage, he's like, I put that on, I needed that to do what I need to do. And I'm like, oh my gosh.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 10:10

right.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 10:10

Um,

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 10:11

That's

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 10:11

yeah. Gotcha.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 10:12

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 10:12

So I mean, you say you look back on your life and I can connect these dots looking backwards and, um, what do you take from that in terms of how do I apply this going forward? So if I wanna. Continue to better myself and get even greater. How do I apply these lessons going forward?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 10:29

And so and so, and it is a wonderful question. So as I start to get deeper into. This, this thing of audacity again. So first and foremost, it was always there in me. Somehow it just appeared And, and while it's great to be able to say that I wanted to make it feel less accidental if, if that makes sense. Like I wanted to be more intentional about, okay, so we know what this thing audacity is, how do I ensure that I continue to have it show up in my life on a regular basis? And it was through that process of. Of figuring out, I, I, I developed this thing I called the Bold Framework. And the Bold framework is really about helping you live a framework to use to help you live your best audacious life. Bold is an acronym, the letter B stands for better than yesterday. And so it's built on the concept that life is about continuously learning and continuously growing and continuously evolving. And so, you know that that mountain that you climbed yesterday, Emily, I'm so proud of you. Fantastic. You did a great job and I hope you're proud of yourself. But guess what? There's a bigger one tomorrow that's calling your name and that you can attack. And so it's, it's the idea of not, not resting on your laurels. Right. And so, yeah, when I was in, in, in, you know, little league baseball as a kid, we won our championship. But I'm not talking that when I'm a 40-year-old man, like I've. You'd like to think I've done more and I continue to grow and evolve and build on that. And that's what better than Yesterday, uh, is, is is really enforces the o stands for Outlast adversity. And the reality is we all know that there'll be challenges and struggles. Life will present all sorts of things that will make it, uh, difficult for people to feel like they can't move forward. I mean, even think of the, the, the, the journeys that leaders go through, there's always some form of adversity that they're, they're running, that they're, they're coming up against. And the really, the reality is. Is that they've got a way to outlast that adversity, you know? Never quit. My, my mom, God bless her, she's, she's, she's built everything around like just, you never, ever quit for her. The, the victory is won by holding on. And so, uh, outlasting adversity is what the old stands for. The LNF framework is live your truth, and it really speaks to you being authentic and authenticity and being real as an individual, um, being, staying true to yourself. So many times we're, we're on our pathway and, and, and we, we kind of look to other people are doing and we go, that's kind of cool. I want that, but we're missing what's right in front of us. And so living your truth, being true to who you are is really what that's about. And then finally, the D in the framework is disrupt the norm. And quite frankly, if you're ever gonna wanna do something that's great, I'll. Side of the beaten path is where you're gonna have to go. Uh, you think of every great inventor that's done something, right? If, if they, if they stayed where everyone else was going. Uh, they wouldn't have, we wouldn't see things like the, the, the light bulb or the blender or the VCR because that, you know, these things were all unique and different. I, and I oftentimes joke and give the analogy of the, the Wright brothers, imagine the crowd around them as they're trying to get the thing off the ground. This thing called a plane. And people would say, Hey, flying up to the birds, what are you doing? We don't belong to that, that, that, because you know, you'd like to think that those things where people were saying that. But despite that, they continue to push forward and continue to, to disrupt the norm. And so it's, it's through that, through that understanding of the, the, the significance of audacity in their lives, which, what led led me to develop that bold framework so it's less accidental and more intentional. And when you stop and. Think about it, like, yeah, being bold, sometimes I gotta do things different. I gotta disrupt the norm. You know, adversity, as I said, we all gonna experience it and I need to fight through that to get to the other side.'cause that's where my greatness lies. And I think that's a really cool starting for point for people who, who think and, and unfortunately there a lot of people who think they're not audacious. And that's actually one of the, there's myths of audacity that I, that I oftentimes speak about. And, and the way I sort of frame it for people. Is if you think of our, our lives as a big racetrack, you know, we all are cars on that racetrack. We own individual cars. And audacity is the engine in our car. We all have it. You know, think of babies learning how to walk. No one said to here's how, here's a manual. No, they just got up themselves one day and said on the try and guess what? They fell down. But that baby outlasted adversity and got up and tried again. And you know what they, maybe they fell down for a second time and guess what? They got up and tried again and so, and we're all walking now and so, um, yeah, I, yeah, I, I think audacity is the, the ticket to, to greatness and I'm really excited. I've been excited about it since I start to understand, and I still am excited to share and encourage others to experience their own audacity.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 14:58

I love it. And you've talked about some big moments in your life where you can look back and go, okay, here was the hinge point to that. Here was the pivot point to that. Here was what opened this door.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 15:08

Yep.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 15:09

And when I hear you talk about the bold framework, I think it certainly can and should be applied to big moments, but it's also for all the little moments and all the quote unquote normal days and like building that baseline and building that intention. So you can live this way every day. And then when a big decision comes up, it's like, well, of course I'm gonna act boldly and go this way'cause that's just who I am. That's what I do.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 15:29

That's right. Well, I will tell you as I talked about the, the, the, the, you know, some of the missile audacity, and there's three that identified, I sort of touched on the first one where it's inside all of us, right? Like we all, it's not just reserved for elite athletes or CEOs, right? Anyone. We all have, it's not reserved for certain individuals. It's inside of all of us. The other myth, uh, um, that I oftentimes, uh, talk to people about is the fact that, um, you know, you don't have to skydive. You don't have to climb mountains, you don't have to jump the Atlantic ocean and fight with sharks to be audacious. It's a small, quiet ax that, that also can be very, very audacious. Um, you know, in the, in the, in the leadership space, having those difficult, or sometimes we call them courageous conversations. That can be very,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 16:15

Oh yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 16:15

and very difficult. But what I will tell you is those conversations can be pivotal and, and life changing in some instances. But, so they are very important. So audacity, you know, comes in all shapes and sizes, and I really do think that's important that we, we, we, I think if we recognize what, what being audacious is, we're able to give ourselves credit when it comes and we go, oh yeah, you know what? That, that was pretty. That that was a pretty big deal, and I did do that, and it did make a difference. So absolutely you're ab I'm so glad you brought that up because that, that's a huge misconception that's out there.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 16:45

And just to touch on that, I know I can think of so many people who are like, no, I'm like, there's other people who do that extreme stuff and bull stuff. And if you were saying like, no, no, no, it's the engine in your car, like everyone has one. How do you get in touch with that? How do you go, okay. Actually no. Like, okay, that's like a. Baby step of being bold and audacious, but that's being audacious, so I guess I do have it. How do you kind of get in touch with that or be able to recognize it a bit better?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 17:10

So, so a couple things. I, I, the, so first and foremost, I believe everything, any sort of monumental change or even small change that happens in our lives, we have to have self-awareness, self-awareness of who we are and what drives us, what motivates us, what excites us, uh, what we don't like. our weaknesses are, our areas that we can work on. All, I think all having that self awareness of self, uh, is a starting point. And you know what I, I, I use an analogy of, of, um, of a living room, right? So in your living room, you've got your television, your coffee table, your sofa, there's a lamp in the corner. And so all in a sand living room, if you go in and flick off the light switch, you can't see the things. They're not there. But we know they're there. And if you flick the light switch back on, they're now visible. The light switch didn't put them there, they always were there. So self-awareness is be, is, is uncovering or revealing what's inside of you. And, and, and why that's really important is because,'cause when you, so now that you can see the things in your living room, for example, you know, I can pull the sofa back and, oh, there's some dust bunnies. Let me sweep them outta here. Let's deal with them. Right? Or, you know what? I noticed that the, there's all these magazines that cluttered my coffee table. Maybe I can organize them a bit like, so it allows you to do the work and so to your, to, to really, to, to, to your point of your question is having self-awareness of self first before we can recognize. What's inside of us. And then the other part, the other thing I would encourage people to do, and I'm a really big, I'm a really big fan of celebrating wins. Like there's no, there's, there's nothing too small you can't make a big deal about. And I think that we should pr do that more of a practice.'cause when you're giving yourself credit for the things that you do, you're actually boosting your own confidence. You're like, you know what I did? Yeah, I did do that and I did get through this and this thing that was really problematic and really hard. I did get to the other side and, and, and, and tho those, I think confidence boosting our confidence as regular practice, uh, can do wonders. Allowing us to recognize our, our own individual greatness.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 19:13

I love, you know, I, I talk to people all the time about, go get your small win

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 19:17

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 19:18

Like you don't have to like, you know, climb Mount Everest, but like go get a small win. And then I think to your point, which is like. Actually take time to acknowledge like, actually I did that pretty well.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 19:27

right,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 19:27

I do, I do that above average. Like, I'm pretty good at that. And just, just like 10 seconds, write it down, mental note, whatever it is. If you do that every day, that builds, that builds your identity, right? So.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 19:39

it does. So I'll, I'll give you another, I remember once I went on this, uh, extensive bike ride, I don't know what caught it. I was just really like, oh my gosh, I got this. So I went this big long bike ride. It was like a hundred kilometer ride and I was going to Niagara Falls, which was, it was a pretty big distance from, from where I live. And I, I probably wanna say about halfway through that, um, as naturally, you know, you're feeling tired, but you still kind of move motor on. And, um, I got to a hill. And I looked up that hill and I'm like. can't go up that one. I cannot, there's no way I can go up that hill. I started, I'm like, no, I stop. And I, but I, but I remember going, wait a second, wait a second. How many hills have I gone through to get to this point? Maybe they were a lot smaller. Maybe they weren't as big as this one. I still get, I still got through those hills, so it's not that I, I can't do it. You can say maybe I'm tired and I'm exhausted. This one's harder. But you can say you can't. And so even so, even going through that little mental exercise of reminding myself. You know, you know of, of what I had to do to get to this point. There were a lot of hills I went through and I got through them and I didn't complain. I did them. No problem. So this is just, just one other hill. And I think, and that's why it's so important to kind of give ourselves credit for what we've done. And, and, and, and, and one of the things I'll say, especially when people run into problems like, oh my gosh, how am I ever gonna get through this problem? here's what I can say with all certainty. When it comes to solving problems, we are undefeated, and I know that because we're here right now. Every problem that we've gone through, we've gotten to the other side. Now, maybe it didn't give us the exact outcome that we wanted. Maybe it didn't go the exact same way. But that

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 21:18

But we're still here.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 21:19

that's right. That thing that was like drive that we couldn't sleep. The thing that took us, consumed all our thoughts that we didn't know what to do. We're not even thinking about it anymore. here. And that's, that's the, I think that's, that's the approach I.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 21:33

Undefeated. I love that. Yeah. Is it, and I'm assuming that it, this can be for external achievements, like, hey, go do the bike ride, or Hey, go actually climb a mountain. And also equally so internal, like, hey. I wanna become more of this type of person and that's gonna allow me to do all these different things and interact with people in a different, better way. And so I like the practice and the reps are around me becoming this type of person. I'm gonna act boldly and courageously'cause it's scary in that way.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 22:02

Yes. Well, the, I I, I,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 22:04

I.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 22:04

the internal conversations and the things that the chats we have are with ourselves are the most important conversations we can ever have with anyone. Like, because that sets the stage, allows us to do the external stuff, right? And so, and. So you think about it, if you're beating yourself up, if you constantly say you can't do this, if you're saying that you're not worthy or you don't deserve, or whatever other crazy things that we say to ourselves, sometimes that's not helping you achieve big things. Whereas if you're going, yeah, I got this. Yeah, I can, I, I've done this before. And that's why, again, remember what you've done before. Remind yourself.'cause we, we, we, we, we have a bad memory at times when it comes to the things that we do. And so remind yourself, remind yourself how. Great. You are. And that's really the point I'm trying to make here, is that you have your greatness inside of you. And this is a matter of, matter of remembering that. And so, uh, I think the more of that we can do that, that helps us. Not that we're,'cause we're gonna, we're always gonna run into hard stuff. Like nothing about life is easy, like nothing at all. Like, just like be clear whether you're, you know, a leader or not, whatever. It's just not easy. That journey. But it is important to understand that our response to those challenges and our problems, that's the key, and we have to give ourselves credit.

Affirmations Need Action

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 23:18

Yeah. And what would you say to someone? I can imagine someone listening, going like, okay, this kind of sounds like positive affirmations or mantras or like, just go like, just do it. And, uh, I, I feel like what you talk about in your body of work is, is deeper than that and it's more. Are, um, holistic and foundational than that? Is there, are there some differences or kind of how would you respond to that?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 23:38

W Well, I, I, I think the big part when I think about sort of, you know, what I, what I continually encourage, uh, uh, uh, within people, I think a big part of that at the end of the day is, is action. So it's one thing just to say, Hey, hey, but you still have to take action. You know, it doesn't make sense to go out and, uh, you know, read a book or listen to the podcast or attend the seminars and not do anything, or take any

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 24:02

Yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 24:02

And so it's, it's, it's definitely a lot more than this. Saying nice things to yourself and trying to boost your confidence. It's, okay, so now what? Right? And so I would add the action, the a word, no, I guess I'm a fan of a words, right? So I'd add the word

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 24:15

You.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 24:16

to to, to that, because that, that to me is a, is a difference maker. Because if you're not gonna take any action on the things that you tell yourself or the things that you do or read, then, then what are we really doing right?

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 24:27

I love it and, and we've talked before in this podcast about sometimes you have to do the action and the feeling will come second. So if you're gonna wait and feel confident, like you're gonna be waiting a lifetime, but. Go do it. It's like, oh, then you give yourself evidence. Like I guess, I guess I can do that. I guess I am the type of person who does that.'cause I just did, and that's a whole other framing to it.

Reframing Failure as Data

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 24:47

well, I would add to that, to that because if you think that's the same thing with courage, right? Like you, you, you try something'cause you don't know, but you try and, and you and courage, sometimes the courage comes afterwards, like after you try, right? Like there's a, there's a, there's a quote, um, um, from Martin Luther King Jr. That talks about taking that first step when you can't see the entire staircase. But you're stepping into it anyways, right? Like that, that, that is audacity in action as far as I'm concerned, right? You don't know where it's gonna go. You're not sure what the outcome will be. You don't know what the pushback will be, but you try anyways. And that, and that's really what I would continually encourage people, because here's the thing, um, oftentimes, uh, uh, uh, the, the thing that holds people from trying is that they're, they're afraid of failing. if I do this, I'm gonna fail. Okay. Let's just kind of look at this failing thing, for example, right? Um, there's one, there's one or two things that's gonna happen when you try something you've never, ever done before. And let's also put out there, um, much like, you know, you, you, you talked about your, your very first podcast experience and. Anything you do for the first time, chances are you're not gonna be good. Your podcast, my book, like it, you're just not gonna be good. And you can't go with this expectation of you're knocking outta the ballpark. It may happen and I'm not for those elite individuals that it does, right, for sure. But by and large, most of us, we, you know. And, another thing too I'll say is sometimes we do better than we give ourselves credit for, right? So

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 26:08

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 26:09

it's terrible, it's actually not that bad. So, um, that, that's, that's, that's kind of the first point that, um, you know, you've got some that will achieve it and, and some that don't. For those that don't, let's sort spend some time here for a second. you don't, if you aren't successful, the thing that you tried for the very first time, here's what you learned. You've learned what doesn't work. You might have learned how to do it better. You've learned, you know, you even learned how you personally respond to these situations.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 26:41

Yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 26:41

and you might even have a blueprint for how to ex do it. Exactly. Right. So if you treat failure and you start, and you talked earlier as an experiment to give you data and evidence what works and what doesn't work, have you really failed? I, I don't think so. And in fact, I would go further to say that a, a failure truly isn't a failure unless you walked away from the experience without the lesson. So at the end of the day, there's no lesson learned. Then you failed'cause you're probably gonna do it again.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 27:13

And if you stop because it made you uncomfortable or you're scared, I would say like we all go through these points where it's like, oh, that's brand new. And you know what? That's gonna be the worst I am at that one thing'cause it's the first time I did it.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 27:25

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 27:26

like you said, if you take the learning and go, okay, as painful as that is, to kind of like replay, like what is like a kernel of truth or what is a something I could, an idea I could try differently next time? And then you apply it. To the next time you do that thing,

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 27:39

That's

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 27:39

you've just grown as a person and you've just gotten better. And if you do that over and over and over again, then guess what? Over a lifetime you are gonna be, you're not gonna be a failure. You're gonna be a successful person because you do that.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 27:49

Well, that's

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 27:50

Yes.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 27:51

I think, you know, again, I talked about, you know, being a commissioner of MBL Canada, uh, so, you know, as excited as I was and, uh, you know, at the opportunity, uh, like it's not like you go to school to become a commissioner. I had no idea what to do. I didn't know. I, I had a general idea and I knew what made sense to me, and, but there was no, there was no manual, there's no blueprint. I had to figure out as I go and, and, you know, and I, and I can tell you that when I look at, um, you know, year one. And then when I entered year two, when I got to year three, four, and five, I'm like, okay. Because throughout, throughout that time, I was learning as I went to and, and, and it is interesting, and, and maybe you this can relate to this, right? When you, you step into a, a leadership position, there's this expectation that you gotta have all the answers and you need to know. And I can tell you I didn't have all the answers. We, you know, we were, um. One of the things that fell into my area of responsibility, wa wa was, was player discipline. So if a, if a fight happened on the court or someone did something inappropriate, whatever they look to and they say the commercial's gotta a rule on this and there's gotta be suspensions and

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 28:57

Suspension.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 28:58

and

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 28:58

Yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 28:58

kinda stuff. And it's really interesting because, so if something happens and it's was actually fascinating, so if something happens in a game, right, the course of a normal game, I guarantee you before that night ends, I would've already received. Three or four text messages from different parties, right? So the, the, the, the, the, you know, say, so if a player A did something, I would hear from like either the ownership group or the coach on player A saying what he did wasn't that bad, right? So let's turn to our down plan. I'd hear from the opposing team or the owner going, he was terrible. It needed to get, he needed to get fined or suspended. I'd probably get something on social media from a fan telling me whatever. And then I would get something from an upcoming opposing player that wanted, see that player suspended so they don't have

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 29:42

Oh yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 29:43

and they're chiming in too, right? So you're getting it from all sides. Everyone's bombarding, and you have to wade through this to figure out what the right answer is, because the reality is in that situation, there isn't one answer that's making everybody happy. It's

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 29:55

Nope.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 29:55

right. And you, and so these are the things that you've gotta learn through. And I will tell you, when I look back now, I go, yeah, maybe I could have ruled that one differently. Or maybe I made a mistake, or maybe I, I could have taken a different approach as part of the learnings and as part of the lessons that life provides.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 30:09

And that's a perfect example.'cause I mean, executives, business professionals are in situations where it's like, I gotta make a call and no matter what I do.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 30:17

right.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 30:17

Someone or a big group of people are gonna be really upset with me.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 30:21

right.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 30:21

How do you, if you're in that seat, and if you're in that moment, how do you act boldly? How do you act audaciously?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 30:27

Um, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a fan. I'm, I'm a fan of having, um, uh, a good framework, a support system around you, uh, first and foremost, uh, uh, whether people you can trust or consult with or advise to, to, because sometimes you need to get outta your head. Right. We, and, and sometimes in, in our, in our head, everything makes sense, right? Everything we, it totally makes sense until you articulate, oh, that doesn't sound really good. And so I, I, I, I was, I was fortunate enough to have a really good circle of individuals who I could turn to, you know, I had a director of officials who I'd say, Hey, have, have we seen anything like this before? And what do we do in the past for, as an example? Or, um, you know, my, my A stats, okay. Have we. Do we do? Did we what? What did we like? You know, what have we done operationally in these sort of situations? Like literally go through that and oftentimes when a situation is happening for the first time, I would set it, we were setting the standard. And terms. Okay, well,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 31:19

Okay.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 31:20

forward, this is what it has to be like. You know, I I, I had had a situation where a player literally, literally bit another player's ear, ear during a game. He, he pulled a Mike Tyson, right?

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 31:30

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 31:31

question is like, okay, so what do we do in these scenarios? It's never happened before. I don't know. Let's figure it out. Right? And so it's, it's, it's, it's that, that support network is really cool. Um, once I started to kind of get going, I, you know, get going in into things. Uh, having frameworks is so, so important. Things that you can, can reference back, uh, and be able to use to help you make your decision. Um, but in terms of internally, um, I had to be very, very comfortable. And sure of myself of the final decision I was making. And, uh, it's so key that when you're making these decisions, you're not doing it outta a place of emotion. That it actually, it's grounded, uh, in facts, in data. It makes absolute sense. And so, as angry as I was at this one player, bit someone else, I couldn't make that decision based on my anger and how my, my disappointment I had in that player.'cause he's a really nice guy. I know him. But he did something really dumb. And

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 32:30

Yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 32:31

uh, it's that, that's where some of the internal work comes. You gotta be very clear on why you're making decisions. So even in that example, um, I ha I, I knew a decision had to be made. And sometimes that's the, you know, the fact that, you know, you have to make the decision helps'cause you can't walk away from it. So I can't leave this room until I understand. Where, you know where our next steps are. That's a starting point. And then once you start to, then you, then you do some of the work to piece things together, paint a better picture, understand the full scenario, then move forward. But it is a process and I think a support system helps with that for sure.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 33:03

For sure. And so I, I, I heard, you know, go to people you trust for counsel, know how to down-regulate yourself almost to get like grounded,

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 33:11

Yes.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 33:12

like, I'm not, like flinging off the fly of the hand handle here. And then I think it is also like, hopefully no one has to deal with someone biting someone else's ear in the office. But there are things where it's like something has to be done. Like we can't just like let this go. Something has to be done. And so in those moments,

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 33:30

I.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 33:30

again, building up that baseline where you're like, okay, I'm ready for this. I know what to do

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 33:34

Yep,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 33:34

and here's my decision.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 33:35

that's right. And then the other part about that, um, which is, is, is so, so key is, is the, the, the transparency in your decision making process, and then how you communicate your decision. Because remember, like all these people I'm getting calls from at the end of this, so instant happens, I'm getting calls, they're all now expecting something. They all want to hear what I've gotta say. And so being able to communicate that and articulate that in a way where, um. I'm not, we're not trying to appease anyone. Um, we're not trying to, to, to, to make someone feel better and someone feel less. It's anything like that. It's being very clear as, as lead commissioner, these are our standards of our league. Here's what we uphold and this violated that based on this, and as a result, here's the appropriate action that we're taking. that's, that's it. There's nothing else. So being very clear on, you know, why I'm making that decision, what is it based on? I and, and, and, and makes it defensible.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 34:32

And many times you make a decision, people won't like you, but if they respect you because you explained why, here's how I got to that decision. Even if they vehemently disagree, the fact that it's you outlined, here's how I got to that decision. People respect you for it. I found so

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 34:46

true. I lost a lot of

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 34:48

oddly.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 34:48

I, I lost a lot of friends as commissioner, so Yes, it could be a lonely place.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 34:53

And you kind of have to be willing to do that if you take these top jobs. Like that's part of, that's part of what you are getting yourself into. Um,

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 34:59

right.

Audacity Myths and Legacy

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 34:59

that's just going in eyes wide open for, for different career moves you make. But oddly, we, I talk for hours here, but anything else, just big or like, you gotta, the listeners gotta know this about, about something.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 35:11

So, so I talked earlier about the, the, the, the, the myth of audacity. And I talked about, um, it's for everyone, right? And it's doesn't, not for a specific set of people. Uh, I talked about it doesn't have to be the big things. And then the, the, the third. Um, one, which I think is, is, is very, very important. Uh, is that, that it, it's not reckless. Um, there's a belief, there's a myth, there's a thought out there that, you know, if I, if I'm in my job, uh, and I, and I get up and quit one day because I wanna go backpack around the world, um, you know, that's the only way I can be audacious. And, and, and, and, and it doesn't have to be reckless and outta control. In fact, I remember once I was listening to, I was listening to a, a podcast and some of the. The, uh, um, the conversation was on the word audacity that came up and, you know, my ears will always perk

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 36:03

Oh yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 36:03

hold. What, what do they think about it? And the, and, and, and the woman started to describe, uh, the, the word audacious, but was in a very negative. Tone, and she referred to it as being reckless and out of control and, and potentially dangerous to us as individuals. And I remember, I just remember being so personally offended, Emily, I was so personally offended. What are you doing to my word? How dare you. You're so wrong. And, but, but, but, but it really was speaking to that myth that a audacity can be reckless. And so let, let's, let's paint a scenario. So I talked about, so you're in a job that you didn't like. And you decide, I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna go do something else.'cause I want to go. There's no question. I'm not questioning whether or not they're audacious. It truly is. But if you take that same scenario and someone who is in a job that they don't like and they decide that they're going to do some research into some other fields, you know, look at their own background, uh, and find out maybe others. Things that I'm doing that's transferable in other areas. Maybe reach out, you know, cold call and maybe do some information interviews or, or find out some, or do some networking and connect with other people in other areas and, and, and position themselves where they can make that leap. And finally they make that leap. Right, and they leave their position. Those two scenarios are the same. I was leaving a job, but one was very deliberate. One was very intentional, one was very v, very strategic, if you will. That's audacity you're still stepping out. You're still leaving. You're still coming out of your comfort zone. And so it doesn't have to be reckless, it doesn't have to be crazy. It doesn't have to be next level for you to demonstrate audacity in our lives. And, and I, and I think what we can, I really do believe if we can sort of frame our understanding of the different ways Audacity shows up. even start to understand, and, and I'm gonna challenge your listeners because I am absolutely without question certain that they're demonstrating audacity on a daily basis and don't even realize it. That it's, it's not this special thing that, again, it's not for the CEOs and those on the top of the mountain that can, can access this. I think we're all living life audaciously, we just haven't identified it. And I'll use myself as an example. When I really stopped and looked back, I started to see all these different, uh, uh, avenues in which it showed up. Um, I, I'll, I'll tell you a very story very quickly, um, uh, as a child, uh, so my, you know, my, my parents immigrated from Jamaica to Canada, uh, in the seventies, and then shortly after arriving here, uh, my, my parents split up. I was still quite young. I was a baby. And so

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 38:40

Hmm.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 38:40

a sudden, you know, my mom who had her husband now is a single mother. And I grew up my entire life having no, didn't, didn't know who my father was. He disappeared and no one knew. She didn't have much. She had no, she, no one knew where he was. And it wasn't until, uh, several years, in fact, I became a father myself. And my, my daughter at the time was six months old, and suddenly my father reappeared was out to find his long lost son. And at the time that he. Resurfaced. I was, I was, I was actually quite excited because, um, uh, I didn't, I didn't know, like I said, I knew very little, almost nothing about him, with the exception of my first name, because oddly was his name. So I was oddly junior, and so all I had was his name and nothing else. And so when he, when he, when he, when he came into my life, um, he, uh, he filled some gaps. I'm like, oh, oh, and I understand that. And then, and I got to meet family. I didn't know. And so, you know, things my world really opened up. Now what I, I didn't know at the time, uh, of his, of his return to my life. Um, I didn't know that, um, he was very sick and facing his own mortality, which is part of his motivation for wanting to find a son.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 39:50

Yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 39:50

Well, three and a half years later he passes. And, um, but I, but when I look back, I, I, I feel so, uh, incredibly, um, uh, pleased and honored that we did establish a, a relationship Was the typical father son relationship? No, it wasn't, but we did establish relationship. The other thing that I realized. Is that the, uh, uh, the, the, the, the audacity in him to be able to look for, to come and search, seek

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 40:17

yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 40:18

his long lost son. I mean, how many times, how many times do we say, you know what? Too much time has passed. There's so much water on the bridge. Why even bother? It doesn't make sense. It's a waste of time. Well, he didn't do. And regardless of what his motivations were, right, he still said, I am going to reach her. I am going to establish a relationship. And he did. And so, so when, when I, again, when I, when I talk about when you look back in your life, audacity is there. It's always been there. Uh, we just haven't identified it. And when, when I saw that, um, when I really started to sit, sit with that experience of my father, I'm going, man. was actually pretty audacious. He asked me,'cause he

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 40:56

Oh yeah.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 40:57

He had no idea how I would act,

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 40:58

How you'd respond. Mm-hmm.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 41:00

him. He didn't know. But he took that chance anyways and wonderful things came out of it. So that, and that's what

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 41:05

Love that.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 41:06

Same thing. I, I was, I was just talking to someone yesterday about that, and this is actually, uh, my second book. Um, uh, actually technically it's my third, my very first one I kind of. with someone, so I don't really count that. The sec. Yeah. The second was my own. And I almost don't wanna count that either, because much like your experience when you were back in that podcast interview, I look back at that original book of like, I almost cringing, right? Like, oh, like I actually wrote that and it was happy about it, but so, well, you know, whatever we do the first time is never fantastic, but that's okay.'cause I still think we have to go through the motions. the book that I have, uh, that, that it's done. And actually the, the cool thing about it, um, it wa so it's called living your best audacious life ever and how unleashing your I greatness can change the world. Um, it was initially I was set to have itself published, uh, and it was re it was going to be launched this spring. then through that process of getting it ready, I happen to randomly, serpent serendipitously meet a publisher who agreed to take on the book. And so it's actually, the release is now being pushed back most likely to the. Fall, um, which is a bit longer, but that's fine.'cause I'm really, really excited about the opportunity to reach even more people than my, my self-published efforts would've and take advantage of the distribution network. But yeah, so that's really, I'm really excited about that. Um, it really is based on the premise of, of kind of. Everything. I, I've, I've talked on the podcast, in fact, um, many, uh, there, there, there are many insights that, uh, I've been fortunate enough to glean through past guests who've just shared some really awesome stuff. You know, people like yourself. That's something to share is worthwhile that I kind of held onto and went back to and said, you know what, that was a really good point. And so it's, it's, it's a combination of sort of my life, you know, my philosophy, some of the frameworks that I use. the knowledge and insights of really cool guests like yourself. And so, um, it's really about encouraging individuals to, to live their best audacious life. And I think for me, the, the true power of the book, um, lies in the subtitle is how unleashing your inner greatness can change the world. And really, we, we all have that ability to impact positively, to, to, to make a difference in the world of other, in the world of others. And that's through our actions. And if we can unleash our own inner audacity, um, then we, we, we can, we have the opportunity to make this world a wonderful place. And so, yeah, really excited about it. Thank you.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 43:24

Absolutely love that. All right. And the book is Living Your Best Audacious Life, and that is set for release later this year. And.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 43:32

looking at. Yeah, that's

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 43:34

Gotcha, gotcha. And oddly, if someone's listening to you going, oh my gosh, I got to hear more from this guy, obviously check out his podcast. We have the link in the show notes, but if they wanted to reach out to you for anything else, what is the best place to reach you?

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 43:46

So the, my, my website is a hub. We're actually in the process of redesigning, which I'm really excited about too. But, uh, best audacious life.com. Um, uh, that's the hub. I'm all, I'm all over social media. It's at the odd man, so THEA now odd with an O-A-U-D-M-A-N, the odd man. And I'm, uh, I'm pretty engaging in replying, respond. And so if someone wants to reach out and say, Hey, I heard you on. Emily's podcast, you guys are leveraging leadership. I'm like, absolutely. By all means. I, I, I, I, I definitely love to engage with her. Yeah. So that's pretty much, I'm a, I'm an approachable guy. Not hard to find.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 44:19

Love it. And I mean, you hear his energy. If you're listening to this, you hear his energy. If you're watching on video, you see it. And I can personally vouch for this is a good man who wants good things for other people and, and helps people when they're first getting started. So if you. Have any inclination or on the fence, please, please, please reach out to oddly, and he's, he's your guy. But oddly, thank you so much for being on. It's, it's, uh, it's just a pleasure and it, it tickles me that we are able to do a pod swap even years later. So thank you so much.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 44:46

so, and said, I'm, I'm ecstatic. That year in the space, if you, if you, if there was a camera. On my face when I saw your podcast, it would be like, wow. Oh my gosh. Right. I was just so, so excited and so happy that you stepped in this space and even, even this conversation, just watch how you navigate. It's beautiful. You're, you're a pro already, man. So good. Congratulations and good on you.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 45:09

I had some great teachers and some great people to look up to. But, uh, anyway,

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 45:13

I can't.

emily-sander_1_03-27-2026_110328 45:13

thank you. Thank you again. And, uh, listeners, please again, check out the book, check out the website, reach out to oddly and, uh, I've learned so much in this conversation, I'm sure our listeners have too. So thank you once again.

audley_1_03-27-2026_140326 45:23

Thanks.

45:26

Please give this episode some love by liking and sharing. It's like sprinkling digital fairy dust on the algorithms and it is scientifically proven to make unicorn smile.