Exploring Feedback and Emotional Intelligence for Thriving Workplace Cultures

Emily Sander talks with Maren Perry, founder and CEO of Arden Coaching, about what HR really does beyond paperwork, why leadership development should start early, and the habits of high-performing teams. They cover tips for giving and receiving feedback, how emotional intelligence works in day-to-day situations, and how small changes - like starting meetings on time - can improve team culture. Maren Perry also explains Arden Coaching’s assessment tools and approaches for building better leaders at all stages of their careers.

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Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.

Time Stamps:
00:59 Why Arden Coaching

04:20 Develop Leaders Earlier

08:24 Feedback and EQ Skills

17:41 Align With The Leader

20:52 Small Shifts Big Impact

22:04 Common Team Breakdowns

32:59 Assessment Services And Wrap

Transcript

0:06

Welcome back to Leveraging Leadership, where we unpack the art of business leadership. I'm your host, Emily Sander, chief of staff to an executive leadership coach. This show is all about finding your points of greatest influence and leveraging them to better serve those around you.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 0:25

My guest today is Marin Perry. She is the founder and CEO of Arden Coaching. And for nearly two decades, Marin has partnered with CHROs and senior executives at organizations like Kaiser Permanente, Mars, Wrigley, ZipRecruiter, and JLL to help develop leadership capacity and strength in organizational culture. She's a professional certified coach and entrepreneur known for her candor. Clarity and ability to help leaders and HR executives create thriving, high performing workplaces. Welcome Marin.

Why Arden Coaching

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 0:57

you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 0:59

First of all, Arden Coaching. I know that has a Shakespearean reference. Can you share that please?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 1:05

Sure. So, uh, I named the company for my favorite Shakespeare play, which is As You Like It. Uh, and they all go into the forest of Arden over the course of that play and really all the characters come out transformed. Um, I have also always loved trees and there's a whole forest for the trees reference too because, you know, I think that's our job as coaches is to see the big picture, to step back when someone's on their path and can only see their thing. Thank you. Our job is to see the whole picture. So, uh, a couple of different reasons, but hence the name. What's it

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 1:37

Beautiful. Very cool. Very cool. And I mean, you're dealing in the world of human resources, hr, and I think when a lot of people hear hr, they think of like forms and new hires and payroll and benefits and all those things are great. Like we love getting paid, especially on time. Um, but it's so much more than that. So what's your, what's your take on the scope and kind of seeing the full forest and big picture in terms of hr?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 2:03

Yeah, you know, it's funny because when I think of HR, I never think of forms. Like, that's the last thing on my mind because I think that they are about the people, right? And yes, there's, you know, getting paid is part of being about the people, right? You gotta have the forms and the benefits, yes, thumbs up on pay. Um, but, you know, really, I think that very few people get into HR because they want to do the forms, right? People who get into HR, at least the people we interact with, and To be clear, they're not always our end user client, right? They're the buyer that the people were working through the people who see the challenges in the organization and are presenting the solutions. But, um, you know, they usually get into the work because they want to help the people and they want people to have a good experience at work. And really that's. Part of why I got into this work is because I think that the tools that we have as coaches are best used in the workplace by leaders who have the greatest impact on the greatest number of people where we spend the most amount of time. I mean, people spend more work, more time at work than they do with their spouse sleeping, right? All those things that are. Supposedly more important. Um, but they spend so much time at work and people get into HR because they want to have an impact there and they want people to have a good experience. And yes, some of that comes with forms, but I think of it as being about serving the people and, you know, they're managing workplace conflict. They're dealing with career pathing. They're doing performance reviews. They're talking about succession planning. They're trying to figure out, you know, which team will be created with the best. Thank you. components and, you know, how they're going to organize the different, um, aspects of that team. What, who do they need to bring in based on their career trajectory and their personality? And what, what's going to serve the team best in the time of year, right? Like all kinds of things. So they are navigating I always think far too many things. There are many things on their plate. Um, and, you know, some departments only have a couple people, or one person. God forbid they have one person who's supposed to do everything from benefits to, like, leadership development and coaching and trying to solve workplace conflict.

Develop Leaders Earlier

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 4:11

Yes. Yeah. It's a broad scope and it, and it's dynamic and it, it varies based on the company, as you said. So I think just getting that big picture in front of people is important. And then you've said something that I like, which is, leadership isn't broken, but the way we develop leaders is, and, and you've kind of talked about leadership development through the employee life cycle, so you're seeing it from more of that holistic perspective.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 4:36

I mean, we work with leaders at the top of that life cycle, right? The C-level and the executive level. Um, often that's one-on-one. We have very close relationships with those leaders. But leaders need to be developed way before then. You know, no one has ever come to us and said, Gosh, I wish I had this later in my career. Right? Everybody wants these tools sooner and earlier. And... in jobs that, you know, maybe they don't have 17 direct reports. Maybe they have one or maybe they have none yet, but they still need tools because you can be a leader from anywhere in the organization. It doesn't have to be, you know, at the head of the executive boardroom table. Uh, and so I think, you know, our programs that go all the way through the organization are consistently working on developing these skills in a way that, um, has traction at all different. You know, parts of someone's career because not everyone has, you know, eight direct reports and an executive team and responsible for billions of dollars of budget. That's not everyone's reality. So one of the ways I think it's broken is that we often do it too late. You know, we wait for someone to have the title with leader in their title before we start talking about the skills that will help them anywhere and also help them get to that spot with

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 5:56

So, let's take an example. So someone who doesn't have any direct reports but is, you know, a high potential person and is, is doing their job very, very well. What types of things, what types of skills would you be talking to them about?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 6:10

you know, all of no matter where you are in your leadership life cycle, it always starts with self awareness. If you don't understand who you are, what your mindset is, how you react to things, how you see the world, what your filters are, um, What your default ways of behaving are. None of the tools that we teach you will have much traction, right? Uh, you know, you can read as many books as you want. You can take as many courses as you want. But if you don't understand how that applies to you, then there's going to be a gap. You'll, you'll get some value hopefully out of whatever book or course or whatever, but there's some gaps. So I think starting with that, there are plenty of things that everyone can work on, starts with self-awareness. Then, you know, you're talking about emotional intelligence, communication skills, the ability to give feedback, navigate difficult conversations, right? Those are things we do every day, no matter what job we have, right? No matter what level we're at. So it starts with those. personal things that self-leadership first, then relational leadership, how I am with you, how I talk to you, you know, do I understand that you're different than I am to start with? And that, you know, maybe you need to hear information in a different way. And then how do I navigate it when maybe We're not on the same page or, you know, you have to give me, or I have to give you some feedback that the other person doesn't really want to hear. Um, so self relational first,

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 7:38

it's so funny because so many people don't know they have a default lens or they have any lens. Like everyone sees the world like I do. I'm like, no, no, no, no. And it's funny, it's, it's funny how. Often we forget this. So you're a coach. I'm a coach. We deal in this world all, all the time. I forget that sometimes I'm like, oh, oh, no, no, no. Let me make sure I understand her perspective before I jump to a conclusion and do this thing. It's like, oh my gosh, Emily. So I think that piece is, is so important and, um, often, I mean, it's easy to forget in some ways.

Feedback and EQ Skills

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 8:11

hundred percent, there's no cure for humanity, right? Like we're all, we're all in it together. We all have a default. We all forget we have a default. We all just assume things that are the way we think they are. So I completely agree.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 8:24

you have a tactical and practical tip for either delivering effective feedback or receiving effective feedback?'cause we've spoken about delivering good feedback on this podcast, but always room for more. But I think like receiving feedback well is a whole thing that needs to be talked about in addition.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 8:42

Yeah, we, we talk about receiving feedback gracefully. Because It can be challenging to hear, but it doesn't mean you can't do it gracefully. And it doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact, right? You still might have an emotional response to it or a resistance to it. Um, I think the biggest thing is listening and actually being willing to, you know, put our, uh, default, as you say, you know, put our default aside and just try to understand. And be curious about what that other person is actually trying to say. And sometimes that's hard when our instinct is like, Wait, no, no, no, that's totally wrong. I didn't say that. That's not what I meant. Right? I have to just wait. Just wait. You know, uh, someone was, um, actually someone on my team was giving me feedback the other day, which I was so grateful for, because anytime you can, like, get upward feedback, it's like, oh, thank God, you know, I have a, I have someone who feels comfortable giving it to me

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 9:39

Yes. Yes.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 9:41

Um, and I had to sit through like, oh, that was a total misunderstanding, right? I know now that it's a misunderstanding. I can read, you know, I can understand what she's saying. It was live and, um, I can understand what she's saying and I know what I intended. So I know that it's just a gap, right? There's, you know, Communication gap happens all the time. And this was something over email. So it's even worse because that's more likely to happen. So, you know, I had to sit through that and wait because she needed to say it. The thing is with people giving feedback, like they need to get it out. They need to say it. And if they, if you stop them in the middle of their share or their feedback, it's probably hard for them. Remember, no one likes giving it either. So they probably like rehearsed it or knew they had to get through a certain amount, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And so you just have to wait, like wait till they finish, wait till they say their piece, and then ask questions, be curious about what their experience was, tell me more, how did that make you feel, what was the impact of that, right, try and get more from them, because then you're actually creating a relationship, and You will not believe how relieved someone is when they give you feedback. They've been nervous about giving for three days and you sit there and say, Oh, tell me more.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 11:01

Yeah. What?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 11:02

What?

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 11:03

Yeah.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 11:04

And then it's just such an opening because now you have a two-way conversation and it's not someone who's throwing something at you and you're like, and no way. Um, the more you can toss it back and forth. Even if you disagree with the feedback, if you can wait long enough, it opens up some space for the relationship. And from there you can kind of solve any of the feedback.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 11:28

A conversation within a relationship that's already been established is, is, uh, where those things can be most effective. And it's funny, I I heard about this coach, um, one time and she was coaching a leader on building a culture of feedback. And he had gotten feedback. He wasn't very good at taking feedback. And so one thing that, that she did was like, for a week

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 11:50

Why do you think he has a culture where,

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 11:52

for an entire week.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 11:53

don't like that?

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 11:54

If, if someone gave him feedback, all he could say was, thank you. That's all he could say for a week. And people knew this and so they like piled on and it got to be kind of funny to a joke where he was like, thank you, thank you for the feedback. People started laughing, but that was the first step. Just thank you for the feedback. I can't say anything else. Thank you. And I

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 12:14

Yeah. I mean, there's a whole book, right. Called. Thank you for the feedback. Right there.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 12:18

Oh my gosh. Another thing you mentioned is, um, the emotional intelligence or the emotional quotient, that piece a lot of people, I get a lot of people going, I've, I've heard I need to be better at this, but I don't know what it is and I don't know how. Do you have any general perspectives or opinions on that?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 12:37

Oh my goodness, Emily, these are all such great questions. I feel like we could talk for an hour and a half on any of them. Um, so I always go back to Daniel Goldman's model. He's like, you know, the emotional intelligence guru. He kind of, it's not like he created emotional intelligence, but he did kind of make it the thing to talk about many years ago. Um, and he talks about four things, four quadrants, right? The two columns and two rows that are self, others, that's one side, and awareness, right? And action essentially, right? So if you look at those in a grid, I have awareness of myself, right? Like, do I know what my own emotions are? Do I know my default, right? Going back to our previous, do I know my default, that kind of self-awareness. So that's self. And then what do I do with that, right? If I know that maybe I am not in a great place today, is this the time I want to go and, um, ask my boss for a

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 13:35

Hmm. No.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 13:37

Maybe not, right? So I took the information about myself and I figured out what I want to do or not do with that. Right? So that's the self side of, uh, awareness and action. And then there's others. So there's... Do I understand the emotions of others? Well, how the heck do I do that? I read their face, right? I read their body language. And then what do I do with that information? So that's awareness of others, social awareness, he calls it. And then, right? What do I do with that? That's I think the ultimate, right? Cause you have to be aware of yourself to be aware of others. And then you have to understand others and figure out what you do with it. So if you're my boss and you go running past me, storm past me and slam the door. What am I going to do with that, right? Is that the time for me to go and ask for a rating? Probably not, right? Like, it seems so simple when we think of it that way, but when it gets, you know, nuanced and many people and many emotions and many situations, it starts to be a little bit more gray. But, um, it's very basically like, do I understand where people are coming from? And do I allow that to impact how I interact with

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 14:45

Hmm. And there's a choice in that sequence.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 14:49

Totally. All of them. You always have a choice. You always have a

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 14:51

Yeah.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 14:53

So what am I going to do with it? Is now the time to ask for a raise? Sure. Maybe. But I have to be aware that there are consequences, right? If you storm past me, slam the door, and I'm like, Hey! How about more money for me?

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 15:05

Yeah. Oh my.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 15:06

Right.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 15:06

Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah, I used to, um, I used to dislike when coaches asked me like, where do you feel that in your body? I was like, just stop talking to me. But there, there's, I'm like, mm. But um, there's a sensation that I get where I'm so like, frustrated and, and short and kind of like. Short fuse, irr, irrit, irritable, and I'm like in that state, I can feel that in my body. Do not make any sweeping decisions. Emily, in that state also, like you have to know, you gotta like if you're interacting with someone and you can't like omit yourself from that conversation at that point, I gotta like counteract that pretty hard to come off as like a normal, kind human being in that moment. I just know that and I'm just like, this is what it is and I know how to. Deal with it, but it's like, oh, that's happening. Don't, no, don't send that email. Now is not the time to send an email that can, so I just, uh,

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 16:00

Oh, yeah. Never click send in that state. No, but what you're talking about is exactly it, right? It's like understanding yourself. I know where I feel this, even though I don't want to be asked, like, where do I feel in my body? Um, but I know what state I'm in. That's the self-awareness. And then what do I do with that? Right? I want to appear as a kind person. And so I know that I need to. Not respond to them right now. I need to sit on that or I need to work extra hard to say something very deliberate that isn't just going to come out. So, I mean, you're describing the, the. real world application of what we're talking about. It comes down to that in every little moment.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 16:44

And art and coaching takes teams and makes them cohesive, dynamic and kind to each other, which seems like some sort of fantasy land to a lot of people. But such things do exist. I've seen them and they're amazing, but they do take work and intention, I would say, to, to get there, to maintain that. What, um, what are some of the things you look at in terms of, okay, how do we create this culture, this team dynamic?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 17:08

hour and a half topic. Um, awesome. I love it. Uh, I think, you know, you, you referenced kind, and I think that it's a, it's a really interesting choice of word because I think, yeah, good teams are kind, but they're kind because they're real, right? It's not kind, like, nicey nice on top, you know? Yeah, it's not that. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about genuinely connected and sometimes kind is giving tough

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 17:37

yeah.

Align With The Leader

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 17:39

right? Um, so how do we do it? Well, we first talk to the leader of the team and find out what their objectives are, because You can't go anywhere without the leader of the team, right? They're driving. So you better be aligned with where they want to go. If you're trying to help the team, um, and sometimes that leader needs, you know, some support in figuring out what that is or figuring out how they can best lead a team because, you know, they're working on a default too, just like the rest of us, um, And then we'll talk to the whole team will actually interview everybody on the team and get their perspective because sometimes they haven't shared it. And sometimes the leader doesn't actually know what's going on on his or her team. Um, and so we talked to the whole team. Um, and then we work with the team in a series of group off sites and individual work. And, um, it's a combination of things. But I think The biggest how to your point is that it is intentional and that it takes place over time. I mean, I think that one of the largest mistakes that we make in organizations is thinking that leadership development is an event, right? Right, right. I did the workshop or the program even like I did. Wasn't that nice? Um, so it's not an event. It's a process and it does take time. And I think that's where, um, you know, look, we live in an Instagram generation, right? Where things are very fast and, um, our attention is so easily divertible and we expect it to be diverted every, you know, three seconds or whatever the statistics is. Um, and so maintaining a focus and commitment on establishing that team over a period of time. It doesn't have to be. You know, a lot of time in a chunk. It has to be many touches because habits are developed over time, you know, if you and I tried to brush our teeth with the opposite hand starting tonight, it would take us months before our dentist wasn't just up in arms at us, right? So habits take time to develop. And that's like a motor skill. We're talking about, you know, emotional intelligence and how we are with people and right, that has developed over usually decades with the teams we're working with individually for decades. They haven't necessarily worked together for decades. Um, and that takes time, you know, that takes time to like shift and break apart and rebuild. And, um, so over time, I would say is the key.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 20:08

And I think what I've seen workshops be effective is, hey, everyone's working from different defaults. We gotta have a shared framework and a shared language so when we say this, we all know what we're talking about. And then like after the workshop, your work has just. Begun in a lot of ways'cause you have to rep that thing out, meaning getting repetitions, getting consistency and small things here over and over and over again. And then there is a function of time element to that. But, um, yeah, it's, it's not an event. I love that. And it's also, you have to be intentional, but it can be with little tiny things like how do I send this email? Like, when do I send this email? How do I, you know, sometimes how do I, uh, show up the way I wanna show up to my team.

Small Shifts Big Impact

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 20:50

yeah, I love what you're pointing to. I think that the, the event can be the sharing of a framework, right? That gets everybody tilted back into the same, onto the same ship. Um, but both with individuals and with teams, we have frameworks, we have tools, we have assessments, right? You can look at a team and actually assess how they're doing. At debate. Do you say what there is to say? Do you listen to other people's viewpoints? Is there a chance for the debate or does the leader just decide, right? So there are ways to assess all those things. Um, but yeah, it can come down to those little, those small shifts make a huge difference. You know, we just sent, uh, another trip to the moon

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 21:34

I know

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 21:35

right? Artemis do. Um, and like, if they're off by a millimeter here, they'll miss. Right? So those little things make a huge difference over time. And I think sometimes we forget and we expect, you know, we expect it to be like, I don't know, some kind of magic wand. Like, I learned the framework. Well, everyone knows, you know, eat less, exercise more. What difference does it make for you?

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 22:00

Yeah, putting it into action is a totally different thing. Yes. Yeah.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 22:04

little different

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 22:04

So, so you're working with teams. You and your team are working with teams and leaders one-on-one and group settings. What are some of the things you see that are like, okay, this is so common that teams don't do well? I know there's tons of books and seminars and workshop on this, but just from your point of view, like what are some of the, like, here's the top three things we see over and over and over again. Emily.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 22:24

Yeah. I would say the thing that people call us for most often is we have a team with, Someone who's been here forever. We really value them. They've been here 10, 15 years. They're the head of whatever pick your department. Um, and they're so important here and people don't like them. They don't want to work with this person. Like they're upsetting people. We've gotten complaints. We lost a client, like whatever the list is and. Yet they feel helpless that the company feels helpless to shift anything with that individual. Um, I would say that that's one of the number one team challenges. Um, and then I think not having a, an agreed upon, Way to be as a team, right? That they don't have a charter as a team. I'm not talking about what their like strategic objectives are. That's a different thing, but they don't have an understanding of what's expected in terms of behavior and interaction. Um, so a small example would be not having a meeting after the meeting. Do we have a meeting in the meeting and say everything there is to say in the room? Or do we wait till afterwards and individually all go into the leader of the team or talk to each other and leave that person out because they never want to play, right? And how do you navigate that? How do you shift that dynamic and agree on what your charter says? You know, what we all agree to do or not do as a team. I would say those are the broadest.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 24:00

no, thank you. I think it's like, I've often talked to teams like this is what it means to be on the team now. And so it's usually I go in and like there's a culture change or some leadership change like this, like giving examples, like this is what it means to be on the team. And hopefully it's, there's positive examples where I can point to someone and go like, look at, look at what Lauren and Jeff did, like when they did that customer call. That's what it means to be part of this team. Now. That's how we handle ourselves and obviously there's constructive and negative examples you can give too, but. Um, yeah. That's interesting. That's a tough one though. That's kind of a, a charter for how a team is, is a little bit nebulous. Uh, sometimes it's not like concrete. We made this many widgets, now we're gonna make that many widgets. It's a little bit of an X factor.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 24:46

I mean, it's easier to talk about the widgets, right? Our team is going to achieve this goal and make that many widgets and, you know, we're going to reach this revenue target, right? The numbers are the easiest thing to talk about. It's harder to talk about like, okay, we are going to start meetings on time, right? It seems like such a small thing, but there is always the person who does not arrive on time. Like when you're physically in the room, they're always the one who's coming in after everyone's had their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, You know, greeting time or on zoom. They are consistently four and a half minutes late, right? And what are we going to do about that? What do we as a team say? I mean, it seems like a small thing, but it's amazing. Like what gets under people's skin, right? People feel disrespected. They, it just. It bothers them because there's also always the person who is prepared on time, starting the meeting, takes the notes, you know, usually a woman, and that person resents the person who comes in five minutes late, and then we have to start all over and recap what

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 25:46

And I had a, I had a COO who like just despise people being late to meetings. And so she would lock the door, she would literally lock the door at like four, like o'clock or 4 0 1 or whatever. And people who were late missed the meeting and they had to figure it out from like someone who was generous who would debrief them. But she literally locked the door and I was like, no one is late to Karina's meetings.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 26:11

Yeah, well that's one, that's one method to deal with it, but yeah. But agreeing in a very concrete way and, you know, being on time to meetings seems like a relatively concrete thing, but, you know, how we respect one another and include one another and a deeper understanding of who gets included in decisions, right? Is the admin included in that decision? Well, they actually probably have the greatest insight into this topic. Will you include them? Because it's an executive team. Are you going to include them in that conversation? Right? So who are we as a team that we, um, how do we think and how do we operate with each other? And so you're right. There are definitely like strategic things that we accomplish as a team. But there's the team nest. There's the culture of the team that people don't often articulate. And I think it's one of the powers of doing this work and being intentional as a team to really articulate what does it mean to be on this team? What is acceptable on this team? And what are we striving for? You know, to me, the greatest generosity on a team, the greatest expression of being on a team is when someone willingly gives up their team. Power, credit, uh, responsibility and just says, you know what, this isn't, this isn't right for me to do, you should do this, you know, you should have this thing to take my team member, take my budget, take my project, uh, take my credit, take my highlighted keynote speech, like whatever it is, but because they're so invested in what the team's mission is, they are selfless. in what it means for them. That's really what we're aiming for on high performing teams and you have to articulate some

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 27:58

Yes, you do.'cause if you don't, it'll slide into like, it'll default into something that's not as good as if, like, here's what it means to be on this team. Here's what good looks like. Here's how we know we're doing good. Here's what's excellent.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 28:09

people have never been on a good team. Like a really true, high-performing, vulnerable, open, sharing, kick-ass team. They have not been on that team, right? They have been on some pretty good team. Some functional team. Some high-achieving team. Like, something.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 28:25

But it's hard for

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 28:26

But do they really

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 28:27

Yeah, but hard for people when they don't know what it's supposed to look like. It's like I, being a good team, I've never been on one like, so you gotta like set the vision almost. Here's, here's some things we can do. So.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 28:37

and what that looks like, sometimes people have been on a different kind of team, like they've been on a soccer team, or a, a theater troupe, or a, you know, debate team, like they've been on some kind, they've had some kind of team or group experience, where they had that high, where they thought, oh, yeah, I get it, I get what that is, like I get what it is to have that thing be bigger than all of us as pieces. Uh, so they, they might be able to relate to it in some other way, but I, I think. Not enough people have had the privilege of doing that at work

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 29:09

Yeah, agreed. Agreed. And I, I like that.'cause there's so many different definitions of the word team. Like, so I, I was on a soccer team and you know, I, there's different teams out there and, um. I like how you said if they're willing to share resources, because I remember someone did, did what you just said and said, take like my two people for like this quarter.'cause you're, you're down to folks. And I was like, what just happened? Oh my goodness. It was amazing because like, you know, six months ago, like that would not have been uttered in this meeting, but I was like, it's working. Oh my gosh. And I think it's also a, a sense of. My team has my back. No one's trying to like stab me and be malicious and make me look bad. Like I, like, I've got your back. Full stop. Okay. Now I can operate more freely and I can do a whole bunch of other things. So yeah, but the, but these things do exist and some people go like, I don't think, I don't think that's real, Emily. And I'm like, it is like, it might be un rare or uncommon, which is sad. But this can happen. Like a group of people can come together and have. Very good debate and challenges and discussions, but still be a coherent, dynamic, high performing team.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 30:15

yeah, what do you think the biggest like grit is in that machine? That doesn't let people get to

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 30:21

Yeah. I, I, I think when people feel, I, like I said, when they have, like, I, I can let my defenses down because nothing's gonna harm me here. I might be, I might be quote unquote wrong or make a mistake, but that's not, that's not, um, like a capital punishment offense in this company. It's like, Hey, let's address that. Correct it, make sure we don't do it again. By the system or by the process. But no, we're here for you. Like we're gonna have your back. If people feel like they can make a mistake and someone has their back, woo. I've seen team members just like their whole way they hold their shoulders and their countenance and the way they move through meetings and discussions and decisions changes.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 31:08

Yeah, you can see it. You can feel it in the room when people feel safe to say something that right wrong, right? As though there's a wrong when you're like brain storming stuff, but people feel free to offer their ideas and don't feel badly when theirs isn't chosen. I think that's a sign of a great team to where we all throw our things out and I don't think I didn't get the right one. They didn't pick mine. Right. Because we have to assume that everybody's contribution leads us to that end goal, and that end decision. Whatever the leader decides, we're gonna go with, you know, Q. Uh, all of the things that we did got us to Q, as a team. Not because Bob said Q, but because all these people said the other things. And as a team, we arrived at

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 31:55

Yes. And uh, just to be honest, like I have been guilty of. Like, I don't like that idea just because it's you saying it. And I used to do that to Tina, like mm-hmm. Like, that's, that's the wrong one.'cause it's coming from you. Um, and that's, that is the wrong way to go about things, by the way, listener. Um, but uh, and I do remember also we were like in this like brainstorming meeting and everyone was like pretty free flowing and this person, uh, will call her. Liz had like a very strong opinion about like, this is where we should go. And she had kinda this little mini presentation and her points, blah, blah. And then someone else, let's call him Andrew said, I think we should go this. That way instead. And he gave all of his reasons and Liz was like, forget mine, let's do that. That's better. And it was like, oh, whoa. But stuff like that can happen. And she said it with a smile and everyone kind of chuckled and laughed. But that's, that's the dynamic that can happen.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 32:44

that's the demonstration of I feel safe enough to not have to fight for my idea because I don't have to get credit in order to be safe on this team, then I can just say, yeah, I was better than mine.

Assessment Services And Wrap

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 32:55

Let's do that one. And everyone started like ling and laughing, so it was, it was amazing. Um, Marin, you do an organizational quiz or an assessment of some kind which points out like, here's the areas that first of all are doing well, so good job, and here's the areas that might have an opportunity for something to do different. Can you talk a little bit about that?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 33:13

yeah, sure. So we have our ardent eight, which is our eight essential leadership dimensions for individuals for leaders throughout an organization. And we've developed an assessment based on those eight, uh, and it will identify. Specific behaviors in each of those eight dimensions, you know, they range from self awareness to strategic thinking, right? Some of the things we've talked about today, um, and identify specific behaviors that you can look into your organization and say, do we do that? Do we do that all the time? Do we do that some of the time? Right? And you'll get a ranking for each Okay. dimension and then an overall ranking at the end and it will tell you, you know, these are some areas that you may want to focus on. If you're going to spend dollars, if you're going to invest in your people, these might be the areas that you'll get more traction. And these are areas where you may be flying high on it.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 34:07

Awesome. And then you've kind of touched on this throughout, but you work with folks individually, you work with folks as a group, you kind of do workshops and and half day things like that. Anything else?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 34:18

Um, it's Really just throughout that whole life cycle. So at a senior level, it usually looks like one on one support. Um, and then we do work with teams. So senior teams or departmental teams, usually intact teams, right? That have a common mission. Uh, and then we have our Arden Leadership Academy, which is, um, Working through those eight leadership dimensions with individuals, but they don't have to be a team. So it might be, you know, your new managers, your female leaders, your high potentials, your next level VPs, whatever. Um, and we go through those eight dimensions. They're all, you know, six to 12 month programs. Um, so individuals, teams. And leadership academy. We do one-off workshops as a part of that too, but those are the primary services.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 35:03

I just wanna remind people of what Marin said toward the top of the call, which is get, get this going early. So earlier than you think before. You have maybe a fully fledged team. If you've got high potentials, this might be a good opportunity to give them some, uh, some investment of time and resources and tools they can use and become the next leaders in the organization. So, Marin, thank you so much for passing along all the. Knowledge and advice that you have shared. If people wanna know more and get this organizational quiz and all the rest of it, where is the best place to find that?

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 35:35

Best place to reach us is through our website, which is Arden coaching, a R D E N coaching.com. And if you want the assessment, um, I can offer it to your listeners for free. It's Arden coaching.com slash assessment. Very sophisticated.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 35:50

There we go. We'll have all that information in the show notes, but Marin, thank you so much.

maren-perry--ceo-arden-coaching--she-her-_1_04-02-2026_160224 35:55

Oh, thank you so much, Emily. This is really a great conversation. I appreciate it. And, uh, anytime you, uh, want to expand on the 17 fabulous questions you asked, we'll have to, you know, grab some coffee.

emily-sander_1_04-02-2026_130224 36:06

Absolutely done. Done. Thank you so much.

36:11

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