Leveraging Leadership
Are you ready to up your leadership game? Tune in to Leveraging Leadership, where Chiefs of Staff, executives, and business professionals find the tools, strategies, and insights they need to excel. Hosted by Emily Sander, a C-suite executive turned leadership coach, this podcast delivers practical and tactical takeaways every week.
Whether you're tackling tough conversations, fine-tuning your KPIs, or mastering delegation, this show offers new perspectives and actionable advice to help you feel confident and thrive in your role.
Each Monday, enjoy interviews with leaders from diverse fields—primarily business, but also from military, politics, and higher education. Every Wednesday, catch a solo episode where Emily shares concise, actionable insights on a specific topic you can apply immediately.
If you appreciate relatable, informal conversations that pack a punch with no fluff, you’re in the right place. While especially valuable for Chiefs of Staff and their Principals, the insights are useful for any leader aiming to grow.
Don’t miss your chance to advance as a leader.
Leveraging Leadership
Chief of Staff Careers: Launching Pad, Capstone, or Both?
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Emily Sander talks with Keosha Lucas about whether the Chief of Staff role is a career destination or a stepping stone. Keosha shares her path from Lyft, where she did Chief of Staff work under different titles, to startups and eventually becoming a Senior Vice President and co-founding a fintech company. She gives practical advice on gaining experience, handling imposter syndrome, and how Chief of Staff skills prepared her to run a business.
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Who Am I?
If we haven’t met before - Hi👋 I’m Emily, Chief of Staff turned Executive Leadership Coach. After a thrilling ride up the corporate ladder, I’m focusing on what I love - working with people to realize their professional and personal goals. Through my videos here on this channel, books, podcast guest spots, and newsletter, I share new ideas and practical and tactical tools to help you be more productive and build the career and life you want.
Time Stamps:
00:28 Meet Keosha Lucas
02:05 Doing CoS Work Without Title
06:05 Growing Pains and Processes
08:57 Discovering the CoS Title
16:04 Confidence and Imposter Syndrome
19:12 Career Arc to SVP and Founder
25:46 CoS as Destination and Advice
Welcome back to Leveraging Leadership, where we unpack the art of business leadership. I'm your host, Emily Sander, chief of staff to an executive leadership coach. This show is all about finding your points of greatest influence and leveraging them to better serve those around you.
Meet Keosha Lucas
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631All right. Welcome back to Leveraging Leadership. My guest today is Keosha Lucas, and we are gonna talk about one of the most common questions that I come across, which is, is the chief of staff role a launching pad or a stepping stone to your career, or is it a, the ultimate. Career stop. It's your capstone project to become a chief of staff. And so Kiosh looking forward to talking all about this, but welcome and thank you for being on the show.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Absolutely. I'm so excited to be here. Um, it feel like it's been a long time coming, but I'm here and I'm excited for the conversation, uh, and to get things going.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Beautiful. So just for listeners, can you give just a, a brief background and context for who you are and what you, what you've been up to?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630For sure. My name is Keino. I am, uh, the chief of staff of a conglomerate, uh, full of. A bunch of different entities, um, but solely, or I'm sorry, most focused on economic development, community development. And so that's the Smithsons group and Isaac Smithson Powell. and I kind of lend my chief of staff superpowers, uh, to all of these entities in order to scale and big. Build big things. And so, um, I've been working in a chief of staff capacity formally in the title for the past seven years, but also informally in all sorts of other titles, which I'm sure we'll get into today, uh, which is a part of our topic. And I absolutely love, uh, being in this role and helping shape what a business looks like and its bright future.
Doing CoS Work Without Title
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yes, thank you. And such a common theme, right? Where, Hey, I'm doing chief of staff work under. Are a different title. Yes you are. And yes, you are a chief of staff under a different title, so it comes in lots of different shapes and sizes. Can you go back to maybe, uh, one of your early roles that you weren't called the chief of staff, but you were doing some Chief of Staff work?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630For sure. I think of maybe the most earliest example would've been when I first entered the technology space and I used to work for, uh, rideshare. I worked in Rideshare for. I believe three to four years if you're, um, counting my contracted work and in scaling up in that, um, company, which was fairly new, uh, newer to the Atlanta market for sure when I started. Um, which we could get into, what the role, how can that morph from a startup versus other things, right. for me, being in a startup environment, it allowed me to be in a role that eventually morphed into what we would now call a chief of staff. And so I was able to learn many aspects of the business just because of the environment of the business. And so when it came time, when our. Then manager was being promoted to regional director. Um, I was put kind of right up underneath him to support in what I now understand as, but surely didn't know back then. Um, a chief of staff capacity and I was in the background really influencing the rhythm of business. Um, really handling communications across multiple departments and then any kind of cross-functional, um, projects. Uh, projects that had to do with multiple scopes from different people usually just got handed to me and that was my first experience of learning what a chief of staff was and how that can look in a company. And I was able to utilize those skill sets. We were a very small team of maybe 10 when I started, and then by the time, um, I finished, we had certainly grown past a 5,000. People
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Wow.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630not more. Um, it's
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Wow.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630how the role changed over time.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631That's amazing. That's that. That is rapid growth. Were you working with the same, uh, principal? I know it was an official chief of staff, but with the same boss or manager that whole time.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah. So, um, besides when I first started, which it would've been under the operational lead at the time, after I, uh, was moved to more behind the scenes and, and doing sort of that business rhythm stuff, I had one principal the entire time and I was able to see him grow as well into his role. It was pretty neat.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631I was just gonna ask like from 10 people to 5,000, how did, how did you two progress in your respective roles together?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Well, I was lucky enough to just have a team that was super collaborative. Um, I guess because we were thrusted into this new world.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Wow.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630many of us really didn't know what we were doing when we first started, so we kind of had to figure everything out together. we all had built a comradery through that. And so.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Okay.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630I was pretty lucky in having an advantage of having a leader who was open to feedback, who, you know, regularly, uh, communicated with the entire team, not just, you know, the, the management team or not just the executive level. Um, and so that's how that kind of worked out.
Growing Pains and Processes
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah, and I've been at startups and I've scaled to, you know, 500 maybe in a rapid, you know, 18 months, but not 5,000. But it was still moving from scrappy and go, go, go and wear different hats and just get it done to, okay. Now we kind of have to grow up and mature as an organization. We should probably have a process for that, and there should probably be a policy around that. Did you run into any of those kind of growing pains?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Oh my gosh, so much. I think, um, one of the departments that usually takes the first or biggest hit, um, when you're scaling for something like that is finance. And so I found my first off. Going from a startup, and since you're trying to just get a bunch of things done and get it done quickly, not a whole lot of leeway for, you know, um, negotiations or comparing prices or, um, you know, finding the best vendor for a lot of things. Um, but when you have stabilized and have grown to a certain point, and now you're looking at. Your revenue versus, or in, in our case, we had, um, hubs, so different branches, so you know, the revenue for our location versus our expenses. Well, now we have to figure out either, you know, does that work for our team? Do we need to scale back? And then what processes look like? For something like that. So what process do we do when we want to use a credit card and, you know, this person isn't typically, um, approved to use this credit card. You know, what do we do in those kinds of steps? Um, and then definitely for culture and human resources, um, even outside of Rideshare, um, I came out of that into another startup. For staffing and recruitment, where all we did was HR management. And so that is so engulfed into processes that you really have to sit down and be intentional, um, because it's not just about hiring or retention, but it's also about how you treat employees. So I think those two departments is where I've seen, uh, the most time has to go into processes to just make sure that we're building a strong foundation.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah. Do you remember the title, or you mentioned two roles there, so the titles you had.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah, so I was, I used to work for Lyft and um, I started off as a community associate. I started off contracted as a community associate, actually, and then was asked to join permanently. And then my ending role was called senior. man. Let me see if I remember.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Blast from the past.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630I know, right. I think it was senior markets operations associate,
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Okay.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Um, and that's, I, I think they put the markets part in because director grew to the entire southeast and then they put the operations part in because, um, I was doing all of the behind the scenes operational, steps and frameworks.
Discovering the CoS Title
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Kind of brought some different elements together and made this new role that was basically acting chief of staff in a different title. Yes, we've, yes, we've heard that before. Um. Do you remember when you first heard the the term chief of staff?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Honestly, I mean, if I were to think about it the first time I've heard it is when it's talking about, um, the executive office of the, the country. Right? But I never really knew what that meant. um, outside of that, and as a career, like outside of legis or outside of government relations. think the first time I heard it was when I was preparing to transition out of my role for Lyft and um, I was asked to come onto a startup and just in trying to find the right role that matched all of the things that I was doing, you know, event production and employee relations, and. All of the things that I had, um, gathered over the years,
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630well, that fits the title of a chief of staff. And I was like, oh, okay. I've heard of that before, but let me look into that and see what that means. And sure enough, from what I had gathered at the time, I was like, that sounds like me.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Wow. Okay. So you kind of brought these things together and it's like, Hey, that sounds like a chief of staff. Oh yes, it does. It sounds like I'm gonna be a chief of staff.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Just like that.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631interesting. And then when you were at Lyft, um, before you had the official chief of staff title,
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Hmm.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631were you at a point in your career where you were. Kind of planning your career or was it more like I'm just trying to get a job and do good at whatever job I have.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630when I was, uh, when I started at Lyft, it was just get a job. Totally didn't know I was gonna land something that I had absolutely loved or that I was going to love working with my team at the time. Um, and then even. I went to the startup after Lyft where I became a chief of staff, it was sort of the same way. I didn't, I was just looking for something that kind of matched my skillset. Um, and I did not know that I was gonna enjoy being a staff of chief of staff so much because at that time I didn't connect the two dots together. I didn't say, oh, I've been doing this my whole life. You know,
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631okay.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630it's in retrospect since then, I'm like, oh no. I feel like I've been a chief of staff my entire life, at least my working life, that's who I.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Wow. Okay. So in that second iteration of like chief of staff, so you were Lyft chief of staff under a different title, went to a different startup, had the chief of staff title. How did, um, that that role build on what you had done at Lyft or what you had learned and experienced that Lyft?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah, so, um, the person that I joined forces with actually worked with me. At Lyft, and this was back in 2020, so we were in the middle of COVID, um, and everybody was, you know, doing layoffs just because of the time that we were in. And it just so happened that based off of our prior rapport, um, he decided to ask me onto his startup that he had already started in a chief of staff capacity. so he knew, just off firsthand my. My skills, my expertise, he'd seen my work that like my follow through, which is something that I talk about a lot, is how to be productive and to follow through. So you, you're approving yourself as a chief of staff.'cause I believe that's a big pillar of the role. And, um, so he saw me physically or actively planning out, you know, everything from administrative tasks underneath the director to, um. To strategy on how we're going to use or to handle our new markets when he grew into his new role or everything in between. And so, um, I utilized a lot of the things that I learned Lyft. In order to kick off my thinking as a chief of staff because, um, I believe when you come into a role in any chief or executive role, have to make a mind shift from tactical to more strategic, more visionary, just to be able to translate what the leaders are trying to tell the rest of the team. Right? I would see us as kind of that linchpin in between and so. Having dabbled into that with having a principal that was interested in my growth, he would ask me those questions, you know, you know, what do you think about moving into this area? What are your thoughts here? So by the time I landed at my next role, uh, that was an actual chief of staff, I'm sorry, chief of staff role, um, at my muscle had been worked. In that area enough to where I could not just do the operational and tactical tasks that I had to get done, especially in a startup setting where we're wearing many hats, but also sit down with the leader, understand what their pain points are in the bigger picture,
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630help strategize to move forward.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah. So it sounds like at Lyft you had a leader who helped you cultivate that. Big picture, strategic perspective, and then be able to communicate that and translate it back into operations, and then therefore in your. Second startup where you became an official chief of staff, you already had a leg up and you're like, Hey, I know this muscle. Now my question is, did you take that into like overdrive where it's like, Hey, I know what I'm supposed to do here and now I gotta do it even more and take that big next step, or was it like, Nope. I was kind of doing it pretty, pretty darn good at lift at the end, and I just carried that over to the new startup.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Um, for me, I did have to physically think of it and, and force myself to do it, um, because even though I was doing a, a lot of chief of staff tasks at Lyft, because I did not have not parts because I didn't have that title, so
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yep.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630wasn't. My identity hadn't shift all the way to that. Right. And then, um, I was working for the regional director, so in my mind it wasn't like the executive level, you know, right up underneath the C-suite. And so I had to make that transition to understand that, first of all, there's chief of staff at multiple levels. I didn't know that until I was learning more about it. And so. I, I had to own the role, so it took me, you know, a good five, six months to get comfortable with that. Um, but once I got it, I was like, I got it.
Confidence and Imposter Syndrome
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631And I, I ask that'cause it's so common where we move into these new roles and. Whenever you get a new job, it's, it's an opportunity to kind of reinvent yourself in a way and step into a new level of your leadership. So it sounds like you were aware, like, Hey, I gotta step up. Um, and I'm, I'm wondering, like for someone who's in those first five to six months now, and it's like, listen, like you've gotta own it. What advice would you give to someone who's like, I kind of have to like actually remember to. Do things a little bit differently. I have to physically like remind myself to do these things. What advice would you give for someone in that phase of things?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630So, um, I, I guess it would depend on. What their perspective is on the role. Um, if they feel within themselves, if they're qualified or not. Right. If they feel like they have the qualifications that they deserve this role, that, you know, they, they got this role because they did the things that they needed to. one mentality where I would tell them, don't overthink it. You know, don't. Um, talk yourself out of it. You're, you're gonna have to speak up in meetings. You're going to have to raise your hand to own bigger projects. You know, you're going to have to take the initiative yourself, um, and not talk yourself out of it. That's what I would tell somebody. So it's almost like stepping off the curb on the street blindfolded and just know that you're not gonna die. Kind of situation. Um, but there's a set of people that might be struggling with, um, some form of imposter syndrome, not feeling that maybe they're qualified enough, um, to have a role like that. And for that, I think that's a different approach where they have to within themselves to establish that certainty about themselves, right? Even in. Things that they don't 100% know everything about. They are, or they're not 100% in control of understanding that they landed the role for a reason. know, um, that the person that hired them saw something in them go from there. Because you have to have some kind of certainty before you can even apply any kind of, um, thought process to, you know, how can I really own my role?
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631I like that. I remember early in my career when I was first becoming a people manager, so I was like a high performing individual contributor. But this, uh, my boss's boss at the time was like, you could be a really good people manager. I was like, I literally, I looked behind me. I was like, are you talking to someone else? Because I never thought of myself like that. And I was like, no, I can't. No, no, no. I would be horrible at that. But because he thought that and he was, you know, senior and professional and had seen lots of different talent, I was like, huh, maybe I'll allow that in my realm of possibilities. So it might,
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah,
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631trust people, you know, take agency within yourself always, but trust, you know, kind of. Oh, interesting. Okay. They see something in me that I don't.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630it's so valuable when you have a
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630cares enough to identify. Strengths and make sure that you know, know that you have them.
Career Arc to SVP and Founder
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah, for sure. And then can you just walk us through, okay, so you we're in the second startup, uh, official chief of staff role, and then kind of your career trajectory. I know like going on to co-found a FinTech and all these different things, but maybe the. Outline the tail end of your career arc for for folks.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah. So, um, I was in, um, the second startup for I believe five years, um, as a chief of staff, and I built that from, it was. Five of us when I joined and I built it to 50 in its first cycle. Um, and it was all centered around staffing and recruitment and merging technology with that. And then we added more, um, product lines and more service lines. And I really got to understand the, the what. Makes a business, you know how to start one, how to run one, how to grow one. And I began to get that little itch of maybe I could do that myself, right? but uh, before that, due to just, uh, personal life circumstances, um, I decided to reenter a, um, larger company, just like a corporation company instead of another startup. Um, and so I joined an engineering firm. It was in another chief of staff, like role, um, but not with the title and, uh, principal at the time, and I had like this whole discussion during the interview process because she really wanted me to know that, you know, it was only because they wouldn't let her give it the title, why it wasn't the title. And so I did that for about a a year. Um, that time was a very interesting time for me. Um, and I ended up deciding that it just wasn't the right fit for what I wanted to do long term. And so I shifted back and I decided to rejoin my former organization, as a chief of staff. But I had put in so much time that, um, the principal was like, you know what, um, I think you should be senior vice president. We kinda walked into, walked through, you know, what that would look like for me. Um, and I decided, I decided it was a great fit and in that, um, uh, just the level of chief of staff that I had grown
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Okay.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630just. Beca I began to have more insight into all of the things that they were dealing with, all of the networks that they had built, um, and who they were working with. And out of that came, um, this idea for FinTech that again, I'm like, you know what? I have this idea. I, I've got this itch. I, I see I've, I've contributed. To growing a company. I think I can do this on my own or I can do this at least with a partner. Um, but venture it on my own. And so now exploring, you know, what that idea looks like and, you know, coming back to tech, which is like a full circle story for me. um, reconnecting with people on that end and still applying. Funny enough, all of the things that I learned as a chief of staff to now. Um, as a co-founder, you know, um, so I'm still, um, an SVP at my firm. Um, and I love them. They're wonderful. Still doing great work in economic and community development, but I am working on my own project and I'm looking to watch that pretty soon.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631There we go. All right, so when you came back, you're like, they were like, no, no, no, not not. Chief of Staff, SVP. What was that transition? Because I'm sure, I'm assuming there's like things that overlap, but that's, uh, its own, its own whole role.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah, it was my first time, or is my first time where I had an entire and all its verticals and all of the direct reports that come with that. Um. Completely in my hands, right? And I was the decision maker on all of the steps and how everything transitioned. um, that was of me. I have a, I'm sorry he's getting a little antsy, um, I have a natural anxious nature of myself where I can, and so. When they first brought it to me, my natural instinct was like, I don't, kind of like how you said with the people management, um, example was like, oh, don't know. You might be mistaking me for somebody else. Um, and I really had to, um, with it and, you know, relive my, or revisit my. Career. And that's really when I understood that I had been setting myself up for this progression for quite some time, you know? And I had built my skillset over time made mistakes along the way, but learned on those mistakes over time to where I am today. And so I just gave myself specific examples of all of these things that they were asking of me. Of an s, of a SVP. When I had done that before to prove to myself that I could do it. Um, and so when I accepted it, um, I was of course super nervous as we all are going into a new position, hoping to prove ourselves. Um, but um, I was put over a biophilic development. That they are working on. And every step that I have taken, um, I've just proven to myself that I have the skill sets to do what I, what I need to do. And like I tell my son every day before school, you have the ability to do hard things. I tell that to myself. Um, and it's been a great experience so far.
CoS as Destination and Advice
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631That's awesome. Yeah, I think it's so funny because sometimes you can only connect the dots in hindsight looking backward. There's no way you can do it in real time or looking forward. But I like how the stars aligned and you came back to the same group you were at and they. Put you in a different position where you were able to grow and learn and contribute to the team in a different way. So that's amazing. Was it around this time, you kind of mentioned it there a little bit. Was it, was it around this time that you started to be more intentional with your career moves? Or even just reflective of like, huh. My experience and background kind of lends itself in this direction. It's kind of added up to where I am now and where I wanna go.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Absolutely. And I think it was at that time that I also, um, realized and decided that, because to your point of a chief of staff being a stepping stone, that's what I had heard about the role, you know, the entire time I had been one. when I was, um, just evaluating my skills over time. Uh, looking back retrospectively, that's when I decided, no, you know, this role is a destination. You know, it's a career path. It is somewhere or it is a role that someone can progress to. Um, and it just looks different from other roles because it's not just one direct pathway. But do we have that same, do we have that same contention with a consultant? You know, people wanna be consultants all the time, and consultants have a varying degree different pathways that they get there. Um, but they use everything that they learned to be the best consultant they could be. And so that's, that's when I first realized that about the role and about what I had been doing.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah. So if someone were to say like, you know, like chief of staff, is that, is that like a early in your career and it's a launchpad off to different things? Um, or is it more like you gotta work your way up to it? If you were presented with that question in that way, what would. You. What would you say?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630I would definitely not refer to it as a launchpad, although it could be. Um, I think more specifically I would say the role is whatever you want it to be. so if you want to use it to later get into another part of the C-suite or later become. A CEO yourself or a founder, you can do that. Uh, but I would say it's so much more fun to just make sure that the role is actually something that you enjoy doing and that it fits the company that you're trying to do it for. Because you'll find yourself, if that's the case, you'll find it just wanting to be your permanent home. I, I truly believe that. so many things about the chief of staff role makes it a place where you can park. But for me, uh, specifically, and I think for a lot of generalists that are like me, the fact that you can curate and shapeshift the role to fit any company, any stage, whatever the needs are, then that's the best. You know that like that's the best opportunity. You mean I can become something and then I can kind of tell you what I want this role to be, and then I can just stay here? That's like what are the best roles to me?
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yes. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing your thoughts.'cause I get asked that all the time and my answer is both. My answer is yes. Like is it a launchpad, is it the capstone of your career? Yes. Wait, which, yes, all of it.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630All
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631I've seen it, I've, I've seen chief of staff interns, which is like, I was like, huh, interesting. How do you do that? But I've seen, you know, junior chiefs of staff, deputy chiefs of staff, I've seen it be a rotational role where you spend two years in the role and get redeployed as, uh, a functional head in that company. I've seen. Lots of people go from chief of staff to like an operations leader, um, COO or VP of Ops.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Mm-hmm.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631a number of people go from chief of staff to, um, leading their own companies, and that's a great hands-on practical training ground if you wanna know, like, how do all these discreet parts of a company. Have to come together for there to be success. Uh, that's a great one. But yeah, and I, I have a lot of people who did what you just said, which is like, I learned chief of staff at a small company. Now I'm going to a medium large company. I was a chief of staff for a regional. Director. Now I'm chief of staff for a COO. Now I'm chief of staff for a CEO and all these different permutations, and I'm moving industries. I'm moving all these different things. So if, if you like that work and skillset, I feel like it does allow you to kind of direct your career in whatever way you want. If you're, if you're good at that, if, if you're, if you're just good at being a chief of staff, you can apply that in many different areas.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yes, for sure. And and comfortable with the ambiguity that comes with it, right?
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yes. Oh yes. If you're not comfortable with ambiguity, just take this off your list entirely.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Absolutely.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631mean, it doesn't make you a bad, good or bad person if you don't like ambiguity. But do not do this if you're not okay with ambiguity. Um,
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Absolutely.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631could you have founded a company without being Chief of Staff first?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Um, sure. I mean, I believe I could do anything that I want and you can too. But, um, do I think that it is extremely beneficial that it, and I have a huge advantage because I've been a chief of staff. First 100%. I will say that.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Hmm. Yeah. What, uh, like what's one thing that you're like, oh yeah, I know how this works because you are a chief of staff.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Financials, uh, p and ls. Uh, financial forecasting, uh, looking at revenues and engaging, um, what we can do next to increase different level levers. Um, I am, although I'm, I always say this and it, it, it confounds me a bit too. am decent at math, but I hate doing anything with numbers. I just don't like it. Um, I'm just not a data girl at all. I'll do it if I have to, but I don't like it. Um, I'm able to do it for tracking KPIs and all of these things that I have to now do myself my company. I learned it being a chief of staff and even in roles where my, my titles were different, so
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630big thing.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yeah. And I like that.'cause I mean, you learn about yourself as you live life, but certainly as you go through your career, and it could be, Hey, I don't like this thing. Sometimes I have to do it. I can do it, but I don't like it. And those are all good things to know. Sometimes it's like, Ooh, I thought I knew how to do that, and I don't. I'm actually dangerous if you put me by that spreadsheet. So I'm gonna learn that or give it to someone else or figure, figure out a new path for that. But, um, cool. Yeah. To round us out here. If you were talking to, uh, a chief of staff who was like, okay, I wanna do this chief of staff thing, I wanna make it, you know what I want to be, I'm kind of listening to you. I'm trying to figure it out. Make it what you wanna be. Um, what advice would you give just in general to chiefs of staff who are looking at this as a, a, a career path?
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Yeah, the first thing that I would say is to get as much exposure to different areas of the business as you can. And so the way that I did that, and I can say you can maybe follow my example, is I would raise my hand. Um, sure when nobody else really was interested, but specifically for things that I hadn't, hadn't done before. So if I, um, hadn't touched marketing or branding or anything of that nature before, I would raise my hand to help with a project. Um, I would, you know, work with the sales team or I would work building training decks. That's something that I did while at Lyft, so that I can help train the rest of the team, like anything that I hadn't touched before. I would just raise my hand and, and do it, and then consume as much of that information as possible. And just depending on. Um, if you're trying to, maybe the company that you work for doesn't have a chief of staff and you're trying to become their chief of staff, then consume as much knowledge about your company. Know it inside and out as much as you can. You know, and touch as many areas of that business. If you are saying, oh no, I wanna be a chief of staff just in this industry, than just apply that same methodology just to the industry. You know, learn how, um, sales happen in this industry. Learn how. happens in this industry. Um, and the more knowledge you have, uh, then you can work on how to apply that knowledge. And a lot of that's gonna be when you land the role. But if you can confidently speak to who you're selling yourself to, yeah. You know, and, um, vendor relations, I would do this, this, and that because you've had to do this, this, and that, and everything else. Then you, I'm telling you, you are like. Light years above all of the other people that are just kind of doing it based off of what they've already done in their career path.
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Good advice. I'm gonna leave it on that note. That's good advice. Go rewind that and listen to it again because uh, that was some knowledge being dropped. But Sia, thank you so much for being on. This was super valuable. I learned a lot and I think a lot of people are kind of thinking about how to. Think about this chief of staff role in their career path. So they've gotten some good insights and food for So Food for thought. So thank you so much.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630Absolutely. Thank you so much, Emily, for having me. I'm so excited that I finally got to talk. Um, and yeah, check out this podcast and every other episode, um, that Emily has stopped before. She's definitely doing good work and just a foundation for this role,
emily-sander_1_05-01-2026_130631Yes.
keosha-lucas_1_05-01-2026_160630about. Yeah.
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