The Love Ratio: How to Stay Connected During Tough Times

In this episode we explore how to navigate life's challenges while keeping love and connection strong. We open up about Thomas's recent cancer relapse and the difficult journey we've been on, sharing the ups and downs, the fears, and the moments of hope.

We also dive into the power of the 5:1 ratio, a concept from relationship expert John Gottman, which highlights the importance of balancing positive and negative interactions, especially during tough times. This ratio—five positive interactions for every negative one—is crucial for maintaining connection and resilience in any relationship.

Key Takeaways:

• The Power of Laughter: Finding humor in difficult situations and making time for fun can be incredibly healing.
• The Importance of Touch: Physical touch releases oxytocin and strengthens connection. We share the power of the 20-second hug and the "Three Breath Hug."
• Open Communication: Honest and vulnerable communication is essential for navigating challenges together.

Join us for an honest and hopeful conversation about love, resilience, and finding light in even the darkest of times. We hope our story and the practical tips we share will offer support and inspiration for your own relationships.

Additional Resources:

• Explore John Gottman's resources at The Gottman Institute 
• Check out The Brain it On Instagram page for more tips and pictures of our medical journey 
• Listen to our previous podcast episodes

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

Your brain is the powerhouse behind your life. On this podcast, we explore strategies to strengthen your connections, build resilience and navigate life's ups and downs, with a focus on brain health.

Speaker 2 0:15

Discover how understanding and caring for your brain can transform your relationships and empower you to face any challenge with confidence.

Speaker 1 0:22

Get ready to brain it on. In today's episode, we're exploring the secrets to lasting love and connection even when life throws curveballs. We'll be sharing our story and discussing practical strategies, like the five to one ratio, for building resilience and keeping the spark alive, especially during difficult times like a health crisis. These are the things that have helped us navigate challenges and, while we're sharing our marriage as an example, these strategies can truly strengthen any kind of relationship. Let's get started. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the podcast and happy Valentine's Day.

Speaker 2 1:04

Happy Valentine's Day.

Speaker 1 1:11

Before we dive into this topic for today. We want to give you all a health update on Thomas and kind of explain our absence. Since our last episode, A lot has happened. Should we play our sound effect? It's been a while, so we're getting back in the groove.

Speaker 2 1:23

Is it this one? Nope.

Speaker 1 1:25

Nope.

Speaker 2 1:25

Nope. Not that one, let's try again. Ah, there it is Health highlights. That's how we know it's time for health highlights. Yeah, it's been a whirlwind. So, unfortunately, on Christmas night we got some devastating news. It turns out my cancer returned, but this time it was in my cerebral spinal fluid and it's called central nervous system leukemia. It was super scary and I took it harder, I think, than my initial diagnosis.

Speaker 1 2:03

It felt like so unexpected and just a setback we were anticipating, right.

Speaker 2 2:07

Right, exactly Because I felt like everything was going so well, you know, and to hear that how my uncle so eloquently put it, ain't that a kick in the beans?

Speaker 1 2:20

We had just texted our families about the news and Thomas's uncle on his dad's side texted back saying what Thomas just said and it gave us a really good laugh. I think that was our first laugh that we had since getting the bad news, so it was a nice thing. Thank you, Uncle Kevin. Uncle Kevin.

Speaker 2 2:38

No, Uncle Rob.

Speaker 1 2:39

He has lots of uncles. So, yeah, it was really defeating. I would say it was really scary.

Speaker 2 2:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:46

And we have a future episode where we're going to talk more about how our faith really sustained us through the fear and uncertainty that came with this cancer relapse, and we'll dive more into that. The emotional side of things, the fact that it came on Christmas night and how we really coped and made it through those early days, is the topic of a future episode. I think I was having foreboding joy or you could tell I was feeling a little overwhelmed about the relapse of the cancer and you're like you know what, babe?

Speaker 1 3:16

we're starting this radiation we had. I think we just came back from a consult about the radiation treatment you're going to be on. And you said, let's just tell my cancer and my spinal fluid.

Speaker 2 3:27

Party's over, boys.

Speaker 1 3:29

It's time for radiation so little things like that have just kind of made us laugh and helped us get through something like this.

Speaker 2 3:39

And I just finished that round of radiation. There were 16 sessions Monday through Friday. Yeah, monday through Friday we had to get up at like 6 am to ride the tram all the way up to the other part of the hospital and it was like 25 degrees like every morning, but it kind of became a nostalgic start to our day. To be honest, we had a little routine. We'd get coffee up at the little cafe thing.

Speaker 1 4:06

See the sunrise as we went up the mountain.

Speaker 2 4:09

It was beautiful.

Speaker 1 4:10

We wore our N95s because at least on the ascent for the morning there would be a lot of nurses and medical people packed, packed in like sardines, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 4:20

There must not be like a maximum limit, because they would have reached it.

Speaker 1 4:25

The aerial sky tram shoulder to shoulder and his doctor said as long as his neutrophils were above 500, it was okay for us to be in that setting because we're like avoiding everything else, so, but we made it up the hill all 16 times all 16 and it was really awesome. Your mom came to be here with us and she went with us to a lot of those. I think 14 of those treatments she was there riding the train with us.

Speaker 1 4:50

She's a trooper man, julie is wonderful. So shout out to Julie for being there with us and we are celebrating. So last Wednesday this past Wednesday was Thomas's final day of radiation. Like he mentioned, he got to ring the bell and celebrate. We are just so incredibly grateful that that is over, and in a different episode that we have mapped out, we're going to talk about how the healing journey is best when you take it one step at a time.

Speaker 2 5:19

Step at a time.

Speaker 1 5:21

Especially when you have some huge, massive treatment ahead of you, like that radiation.

Speaker 2 5:26

Right.

Speaker 1 5:27

And last week we had a bone marrow biopsy. It was a big week, yeah. You had a lot of things going on.

Speaker 2 5:33

Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's been quite the week.

Speaker 1 5:36

That biopsy will tell us if there's any remaining cancer in his bone marrow so we're praying that there is not and it's also going to tell us how much his bone marrow transplant has engrafted. So they look at in this bone marrow biopsy to see how much of it is his donors versus his own cells or DNA.

Speaker 2 5:56

Right and we're shooting for a hundred percent donor. The bone marrow donor is anonymous, of course.

Speaker 1 6:03

We know she's female.

Speaker 2 6:04

She's female, she's from Germany, that's all we know, I think she was 18 at the time Is 18.

Speaker 1 6:09

She's alive and well Right.

Speaker 2 6:11

Yeah, totally. So, for whatever reason, we matched up really really well, and so we never got to know more about her than that, so we made a name for her.

Speaker 1 6:24

Did we land on one?

Speaker 2 6:26

I think. So we kind of go back and forth. We started with Olga, because that's the most German name I could think of, and then I added Fraulein.

Speaker 1 6:35

Yes, okay, fraulein.

Speaker 2 6:37

Olga. So Fraulein Olga's immune system is BA. She's great yeah.

Speaker 1 6:43

And we will cheer her on.

Speaker 2 6:45

We'll be like Olga Olga.

Speaker 1 6:48

When Thomas gets his labs and we see that his neutrophils are shooting up, olga's rocking it. So we're seeing how much of your bones are, in fact, lady bones.

Speaker 2 6:58

That's actually what they used to call me in high school. Old lady bones Keely.

Speaker 1 7:03

There he goes.

Speaker 2 7:05

There he goes, old lady bones. I'm just glad the nickname finally makes sense now.

Speaker 1 7:11

It all comes together. It's the prophecy foretold.

Speaker 2 7:15

Cheers Josh.

Speaker 1 7:16

So that's basically a recap of what we've been going through. Okay, can we transition now? Yes, all right. Nice, we're still working on that next sound, but we'll go with it. I like that transition music.

Speaker 2 7:42

Heck yeah.

Speaker 1 7:43

So happy Valentine's Day. At the time of this recording it's actually the day after Valentine's Day. We were going to record yesterday on Valentine's Day itself, but you were not feeling awesome. So radiation really is not great for your digestive tract. You weren't feeling awesome, but we're back. Nothing can stop us now.

Speaker 2 8:02

Nothing can stop us now.

Speaker 1 8:05

That's a shout out to Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway.

Speaker 2 8:10

If you know, you know. Yeah, it's a ride over in Florida and Disney World.

Speaker 1 8:14

Disneyland has it too now.

Speaker 2 8:15

Disneyland has it too. They do.

Speaker 1 8:17

West Coast.

Speaker 2 8:18

It's really an impressive ride.

Speaker 1 8:20

It's fantastic, to be honest.

Speaker 2 8:22

I'm amazed at the special effects and stuff.

Nurturing Positive Relationships Amid Challenges

Speaker 1 8:25

All that to say is that nothing's going to stop us finishing this episode? Nope, so we're going to be talking about something that's crucial for maintaining strong relationships, really, especially during difficult time periods. John Gottman is a researcher who I have nerded out over many a time, and he researches the balance of positive and negative interactions among partnerships, among people who are married, and he's identified some key ratios that can really make a difference.

Speaker 2 8:54

Yeah, exactly. Gottman's work studying thousands of couples actually reveals that during conflict, the magic ratio is five to one. Five to one what does that mean? That means for every one negative interaction during an argument, like criticism, defensiveness, contempt or stonewalling.

Speaker 1 9:11

And like stonewalling, as in emotionally shutting down, not responding.

Speaker 2 9:17

So for every one of those you need at least five positive interactions to balance it out and repair the relationship. And so that's the five-to-one ratio, and it seems like it's essential for navigating conflict constructively, or it's a really good way to. It's super helpful to have that ratio.

Speaker 1 9:37

And in Gottman's research it's not just about conflict. His research also suggests a broader ratio for overall relationship well-being. So for your partner to truly feel loved, respected and appreciated, you actually need a higher ratio of positive to negative interactions in your everyday interactions. In your everyday interactions, he found that couples need to balance any negative interaction with as many as 20 positive ones for their partner to continue feeling cherished. So there's the 20 to 1 ratio.

Speaker 2 10:08

Yeah, if you're feeling overwhelmed with the 5 to 1, the 20 to 1, it's a tall order.

Speaker 1 10:14

Why does that ratio matter?

Speaker 2 10:16

No, it's just fascinating how our brains work. We're wired to prioritize and remember negative experiences more readily than positive ones.

Speaker 1 10:24

So if I get a review or you get a review at work, your boss could say 10 really nice things and bring up one negative or one area for growth, and your brain's going to focus on the negative.

Speaker 2 10:37

Right. It grabs onto that, one doesn't let go, and it's actually a survival mechanism. So it takes a conscious effort to counteract this negativity bias what they call it and intentionally cultivate positive moments. And that's why these ratios are important. They give us tangible goals to strive for, both in and out of conflict and, of course, when you're in the heat of it, it's tough to hit the brakes and jump into positive interactions straight out of a negative one. But taking time to let your glitter settle. So we have these little brain models and you shake it up. It's kind of like a snow globe and all those little pieces of glitter kind of represent your stress hormones. So letting your glitter settle means just taking a break doing whatever you need to do to like, just let yourself calm down.

Speaker 2 11:30

Emotionally regulate yeah emotionally regulate and let the stress hormones dissipate or simmer down.

Speaker 1 11:37

So you can tell your partner hey, you know what I really want to solve this problem. I want to keep working this out with you, but I need a little break to emotionally regulate, or I need to step out and just collect my thoughts. But I want to come back 20 minutes. Can we keep talking about this? And there's actually some science behind that 20-minute timeframe. The brain actually needs time to metabolize cortisol, the stress hormone, and that they call it the neurobiological average amount of time it takes for that cortisol to dissipate and for you to get back into that critical thinking part of your brain is about 20 minutes, and they actually did a study with the Gottman Institute that discovered just a 20-minute break in which couples stopped talking and just read magazines as their heart rates returned to a baseline, dramatically changed the discussion so that people had access to their sense of humor and affection and could more positively solve problems and conflict. So that's something that all of us can do If you find yourself either stonewalling or you just feel a little bit upset during a conflict and you feel like I'm not able to solve this or act in a way that is in alignment with my values, or that's maintaining that more positive spin or positive orientation as you're facing a problem. You can ask for a break. Just say what you need. Read a magazine, like they did in the research, or go on a walk. That's something that really helps me. Walking is metabolizing that cortisol. Journaling, drawing, whatever it is. That gives your brain some time to settle and then come back to that problem.

Speaker 1 13:10

Another tip that Thomas and I have found is to stay on the same page. You're on the same team. Don't make people the problem. Allow the problem to be the problem and try to be on the same page as you navigate that together and as you solve it together. You're on the same team and you both have the common goal of having unity and of flourishing in your relationship. So being on the same team and taking breaks are good. Also, when it talks about this five to one ratio, one of the positives could literally just be nodding your head and being like, oh, that makes sense. So if you're in a conflict with your partner or anyone really and they're sharing their perspective, you don't have to really agree with everything they're saying, but you can say I understand why you feel that way, or, oh, that makes sense that you feel this way. You're not necessarily agreeing that that feeling or that perspective is in alignment with yours, but you're just saying okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 14:03

This is where you're coming from Exactly Making them feel felt. Everyone just wants to feel felt and understood. Yes, and I think couples or anybody in any kind of relationship run circles round and round trying to feel felt and understood.

Speaker 1 14:21

We call that trigger pong, like when you're triggering each other, like I think, like you were saying, we just want to feel felt. We want the other person to understand where we're coming from. So if you're trying to share where you're coming from, but the person interprets that as an attack or they feel defensive. So now they're trying to share where they're coming from, if either party doesn't pause and acknowledge, oh okay, so this is how you felt, then it's almost like the other person's brain wants to continue to make the case as to why they're feeling that way or as to why that value isn't being honored. So there's a lot of complexity there. But I think, if you boil it down, it's about feeling felt and we do that thing where we put our fingers to our forehead and then we stick our hand out and it's like not acknowledging, I see you.

Speaker 2 15:07

Is that from Avatar? I think it is From the James Cameron one, not the Last Airbender.

Speaker 1 15:12

Last Airbender, which is awesome and has a great live action. Psa, you've not seen the live action.

Speaker 2 15:19

Not the M Night Shyamalan one, we don't talk about that one, no, the other one. But the show on Netflix, yeah, the new one, that's good.

Speaker 1 15:25

So people want to feel seen. We want to feel loved and respected and admired, and we want to feel seen inside and outside of conflict Right. So as we've navigated Thomas' Right kind of a massive wrench into everything. It also creates a whirlwind of emotion. So fear, uncertainty, grief anger.

Speaker 2 16:05

All of these things can start to come up for people, and certainly has for us, right yeah, and I remember the early days and just feeling totally blindsided. I just remember the emotional toll was heavy on you as well, for sure.

Speaker 1 16:16

Yeah, during the health crisis, there's a lot of things that our brains are going through, and a big part of it is the integration of a stress hormone like cortisol that is flooding our system.

Speaker 1 16:28

So cortisol can make us more reactive, irritable and less able to communicate effectively. So maybe in the past, if you would have had a little conflict and been able to share where you're coming from, acknowledge the other person's perspective and move on effectively. So maybe in the past, if you would have had a little conflict and been able to share where you're coming from, acknowledge the other person's perspective and move on. When you have cortisol in your system and when you have a lot of stress because you're in a crisis, you are a lot less able to communicate effectively, so that your ratio might start to go up. You might have more negatives to positives because your brain is under a lot of stress. It can also affect our ability to experience joy and connection, and so that's why consciously cultivating positive interactions becomes even more crucial, and a key note here is it's not about pretending everything's okay. It's about finding balance.

Speaker 2 17:14

So it's not toxic positivity, thank you.

Speaker 1 17:17

It's authentically thinking about how can I choose to be grateful, how can I choose to see the joy and building it in.

Speaker 2 17:26

Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1 17:28

So should we talk about some strategies.

Speaker 2 17:30

Yeah, let's talk about some tools in the tool belt. I like it. It's not easy to do that.

Speaker 1 17:35

So, yeah, how do you do that? How do you find positive moments when you're facing something as daunting as cancer? And we learned that it's the little things that often make the biggest difference. I believe John Gottman says small things often is huge. The little things.

Speaker 2 17:51

Yeah, for sure, and so we want to share some of our experiences, along with some practical tips, in the hopes that it would be helpful to other folks.

Speaker 1 18:00

These are all things that we're learning and practicing ourselves individually and in our marriage. And before we move on, I want to talk about conflict. One last piece. Conflict is not a bad thing.

Speaker 1 18:12

Conflict and negative interactions happen in healthy marriages and in healthy relationships. Actions happen in healthy marriages and in healthy relationships. But the difference Dr John Gottman calls them marriage masters for those folks who have that good ratio going on, they have the conflict and the negativity, but they're quickly repaired and replaced with validation and empathy. So there's bumps along the road, someone's grouchy, someone doesn't feel felt and says something maybe outside of their values. This happens, but there's repair hey, I'm sorry for acting that way and then replace it with validation and empathy. Ah, I see where you're coming from. And then you might say I know we're both stressed out, so we're having the empathy for one another and we're validating each other.

Speaker 1 18:54

So, both when you're in conflict and in your day-to-day outside of conflict, just in your interactions, to keep that high positive ratio in your relationship, we're going to give you three big strategies that are important to us, that have really helped us, both in the hospital and then now here at the Rood Family Pavilion as Thomas continues to heal. These are things that have helped us. The first one is humor. The second piece that we'll dive more into is physical touch and then, finally, communication. So let's start with our first strategy, which is to integrate humor and how doing this can boost that positive ratio.

Speaker 2 19:33

Even in the hospital, we made a conscious effort to find moments of joy and be silly. I don't know if I've shared this yet, but I ordered a wig off of Amazon. It's like a powdered wig.

Speaker 1 19:47

Colonial.

Speaker 2 19:48

Colonial. Yeah, like George Washington on the dollar bill. Pretty much exactly that, just to be funny.

Speaker 1 19:58

You had it in a special bag. So whenever you lost your hair, you said when I lose my hair because of the cancer treatment, um, when the time finally comes, I'm gonna wear this powdered wig and I did it.

Speaker 2 20:12

Yep, he did it, a man of my word.

Speaker 1 20:15

So yeah, laughter was a big thing for us.

Speaker 2 20:19

We watched comedians on YouTube and shared funny memes with each other or reminisced about silly things we've done or that have happened to us in our lives. It was a huge tool in our five-to-one ratio efforts.

Speaker 1 20:35

So sitting down and watching a funny video cats or SNL or whatever it is that you like to watch even just the two of you sitting next to each other and laughing, that is going towards your positive ratio. Small moments of joy. It's like medicine, it's a good way right.

Speaker 1 20:52

It can help you escape the seriousness for a little while and just reconnect as a couple. It can help you escape the seriousness for a little while and just reconnect as a couple. It's a big boost to the positive side of the ratio and you know I like to be scientific and nerdy. Science backs this up.

Speaker 2 21:06

Of course it does. I was just waiting for my moment, okay.

Speaker 1 21:09

So laughter releases endorphins which have mood boosting and pain relieving effects. It can help with pain, that's awesome. Edit discomfort. Discomfort is with pain. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 21:19

Edit discomfort Discomfort is what we're supposed to say. Oh right, it can help with discomfort, discomfort.

Speaker 1 21:23

It can also reduce stress hormones. So here's how you can find laughter even when it feels impossible. So have some kind of humor stash or you know a list of funny movies, tv shows, comedians that you both enjoy. So when it's like okay, things are getting intense, it's time to Put the office on Yep.

Speaker 2 21:42

That was our go-to Yep.

Speaker 1 21:44

We watched the Office, the super fan episodes, which is worth the Peacock subscription right Is it Peacock?

Speaker 2 21:50

It is, yeah, Peacock.

Speaker 1 21:51

Single-handedly. The reason why we have that subscription, Yep.

Speaker 2 21:55

Worth it.

Speaker 1 21:58

Also the reason why we have that subscription Yep Worth it. Also. Another funny thing I just love the nurses at OHSU on 13 and 14K. One of them well, a lot of them were office fans, so they'd step in to check your vitals and then they would look up and laugh at whatever episode we were on. And we had some serious office fans and one of them would quiz us I think two of them.

Speaker 2 22:19

They would come up with really deep cut office trivia and we would take turns asking each other questions Because they would talk about oh, last week I was at a trivia night, at whatever location, whatever bar.

Speaker 1 22:29

Office trivia.

Speaker 2 22:30

It was all office trivia.

Speaker 1 22:32

We need to do this.

Speaker 2 22:33

Yeah, we don't drink, but it would be super fun to do that, so I think we're definitely going to hit it up sometime. Yes yes, but continue what you're saying, sorry.

Speaker 1 22:42

Yeah, so them doing office trivia with us and us laughing about it. That is something that is really helpful for your brain. Scheduling fun breaks, even in the hospital, like a little short break for a lighthearted activity, can be huge. I know we'd take breaks on the 14th floor in the family room. We'd walk down the hallway to get out and have a little fun. We tried to do puzzles. For some people puzzles would be a fun break.

Speaker 2 23:08

Right, yeah, we went into the family room and found this really cool Freddie Mercury puzzle and that you know we dumped it out. We're like all right, let's do this Entertain just for like 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 23:21

You have to be in the right headspace.

Speaker 2 23:22

We do have some puzzles which are great.

Speaker 1 23:24

We're excited to bust those open and give it another try. But a different example in that room, the family room they had like darts kind of like darts, except they were balls with Velcro on them.

Speaker 2 23:36

That stuck to the other Velcro like one quarter of the time. Most of the time you're just chasing balls around the room, chasing balls around the room.

Speaker 1 23:45

That was a really fun break. We'd go down and do that.

Speaker 1 23:48

It was a lot, attempt a puzzle, throw some balls and then go back for treatment or for the next thing on the list. Another way to increase the positivity ratio with humor is to find humor in the everyday. Look for the absurd or funny moments that will inevitably arrive, even if there's a difficult situation, and there are ways to intentionally add positives to the five to one ratio. These are just some examples of it. We had an IV poll. You did rather, and we called it Ivan. I think Ivan had an IV poll. You did rather, and we called it Ivan. I think Ivan the IV poll.

Speaker 1 24:21

I think so, and whenever we would be having a serious talk or we would be recording one of our episodes, Ivan would start making these loud sounds.

Speaker 2 24:30

Right Start beeping because it's occluded or the medication's done infusing or whatever.

Speaker 1 24:37

Yeah so we would pretend that the beeping was like censoring what we were saying Other times. We would just laugh about it, or you know, make up silly scenarios, so humor and laughter are huge.

Speaker 2 24:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:52

Let's go on to tip number two physical touch.

Speaker 2 24:55

So physical touch was huge for us and it sounds simple, but we realized that there were times when we'd gone days Physical touch, so physical touch was huge for us. It sounds simple, but we realized that there were times when we'd gone days without connecting physically, without holding hands or touching each other, just because of the hospital environment, which makes sense.

Speaker 1 25:10

We lived there for like 30 days or so. That's how long we were in the hospital for. Yeah, that's how long we were in the hospital for.

Speaker 2 25:15

Yeah, but that was a small thing that made a huge difference in our connection in the positive side of the five to one ratio, for sure.

Speaker 1 25:24

Yes, because you know hospital beds they're not exactly conducive to cuddling.

Speaker 2 25:29

But we made it work.

Speaker 1 25:32

We did, you know, touching enough, not having that physical connection enough, we realized, like holy cow, we need to start, you know, cuddling, sitting with one another in the hospital bed watching TV. There were nights when we would sleep together in the hospital bed for a few hours until, you know, maybe it was time for them to draw your midnight labs, and then I would go back to my little couch bed.

Speaker 2 25:55

Yeah, little couch bed thing.

Speaker 1 25:57

I think we startled a lot of nurses who would come in in the middle of the night to get your arm to sneakily draw labs they're used to doing that and then they would tap your shoulder and you'd roll over and there'd be two people. They'd be like whoa or they'd be like is she the patient, right?

Speaker 2 26:12

Yeah, I'm sure they're not used to that.

Speaker 1 26:14

Yeah, they knew it was Thomas my patients are multiplying.

Speaker 1 26:16

Yeah, but yeah. So again, hospital beds aren't conducive to cuddling. But physical touch is a fundamental human need, and it becomes even more important during times of stress. And it's not just about feeling close. There's real science behind it. So oxytocin, often called the love hormone, is released during physical touch, which promotes feelings of bonding, trust and connection. It actually counteracts the effects of stress hormones and strengthens attachment. So how can we prioritize it, especially when things get tough? That's an important question for us to ask ourselves.

Speaker 2 26:50

Yeah, we found even little things helped, like hand-holding is powerful, even if cuddling isn't possible. If you don't want a spoon in your hospital bed, that's fair.

Speaker 1 27:01

That was one of the reasons why we laughed a lot Whenever I would join you in the hospital bed. Sometimes nurses would come in and they'd just start laughing, because it's just not common to see that as much.

Speaker 2 27:12

What's funny is that we felt like we were doing something almost wrong, like we got busted or something Like oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 27:18

We were literally just laying there, we were just laying there in our clothes. And you know so, double whammy we had the laughter and we had physical touch. So you said hand-holding, that's an important thing to do.

Speaker 2 27:34

And we also started incorporating mini cuddles or just taking advantage of any opportunity for brief moments of physical closest like that.

Speaker 1 27:44

Whenever you would have chemo. There were certain chemo drugs, like IV chemo, where the nurses who were coming in would have to gown up and they would put you know lots of gloves on or whatnot.

Speaker 1 27:55

But sometimes they would say like whether or not I was able to sit with you. So most of the time I would sit with you on the bed and we'd hold hands and the chemo would be going in through your IV and we'd be watching Seinfeld or something funny. So I think that's really the powerhouse there. We had the humor, we had the touch and that closeness and you had told me before you felt like you weren't alone. During those moments when you knew this toxic poison was going into you. You had those other things that were helping the moments.

Speaker 1 28:26

Another piece is that communication is key. So it's important, whether you're the patient or the caregiver, to talk to your partner about how important physical touch is to you. How can you add those positive interactions in a way that's meaningful for you? And in that time in recovery, I know there were times when your skin was really sensitive after that, when you went through the first round of really intense radiation. So I would try to rub your back, but your skin was so sensitive because of radiation it actually hurt. You were like that's really painful. Right now I'm like oh no of radiation.

Speaker 1 28:58

It actually hurt. You were like that's really painful. Right now I'm like oh no, that's not the effect I was going for. So open communication is so huge. And another thing that is helpful. That usually doesn't have there's usually not an issue with it um are hugs. They are a fantastic way, another way to bump up your positive ratio, and hugs decrease cortisol, which is the stress hormone that we talked about, while simultaneously increasing oxytocin. It's like a double whammy of good feelings.

Speaker 2 29:27

It's not just any hug. We actually learned that the length of the hug matters.

Speaker 1 29:31

I was surprised. I learned something new about the amount of time a hug needs to be Before we get to this. I want to think of it this way Human touch activates our parasympathetic nervous system, so that's your body's calm down system. It slows your heart rate, it lowers your blood pressure and it tells our brains relax you're safe, rest and digest mode.

Speaker 1 29:53

No tigers are chasing you here, you are safe and get this. Research suggests that touch, along with synchronized breathing and even placing your hand over your partner's heart, can stimulate the vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve is like a super highway between your head and your heart, and activating it brings on feelings of calm and safety. So how long should?

Speaker 2 30:14

that hug be so it turns out. 20 seconds is ideal. Just 20 seconds can make a real difference. And I say just 20 seconds, I know that's a long hug. So whoever you're hugging, make sure they're in on whatever you're doing, or else it could get kind of weird.

Speaker 1 30:33

There's some research that says seven second hug, and so when I go to conferences and I speak about the importance of touch, up until today when I did some more digging, seven seconds was what I had in my mind, but actually the research that shows the most powerful effect is that 20 seconds.

Speaker 2 30:51

Right. Seven seconds is good, 20 seconds is better.

Speaker 1 30:54

Exactly One study had couples face a stressful public speaking task. It was a big, big study. Half the group got a 20 second hug from their partner beforehand, while the other half rested quietly alone. Oh, that's sad. So the hugging group both men and women showed significantly lower stress levels and they measured that by blood pressure and that 20 second hug was enough to take the edge off. Yeah, by blood pressure. And that 20-second hug was enough to take the edge off.

Speaker 2 31:19

Yeah, it's awesome and we actually tried that out today.

Speaker 1 31:23

We did yeah, after we learned it For science.

Speaker 2 31:24

Yeah for science.

Speaker 1 31:27

I was reading it on my phone and you were eating breakfast and I'm like I need to do something. You're like what? I'm like it's for science. You're like okay, so I got my stopwatch out she's always experimenting on me and I got my stopwatch out on my phone and we literally I'm like let's hug for 20 seconds. And we did.

Speaker 2 31:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:49

And it was awesome.

Speaker 2 31:50

And a good way to kind of think of it too is like taking three big deep breaths together.

Speaker 1 31:56

That's the best way. Taking three big deep breaths together. That's the best way. At first, we just looked at my phone.

Speaker 1 31:59

Right. But you can do something called the three breath hug. So you face your partner or whoever it is that you have in mind you're going through a challenge with. You face that person, you give them a nice big hug, you put your palms on their back and you inhale and exhale together three times. It's a really neat way to connect and calm down. The synchronized breathing really helps your parasympathetic nervous system and it is a really research-backed way to help you both regulate and feel more connected.

Speaker 2 32:33

Awesome.

Speaker 1 32:35

Our third and final strategy is to integrate effective communication, and this is something that can boost your positive ratio with your partner.

Speaker 2 32:43

And just communicating and being honest about our fears and our anxieties, which isn't always easy, but super, super important. Even difficult conversations, when handled with respect and empathy, can contribute to the positive side of the five to one ratio by strengthening and connecting the person you're talking to.

Speaker 1 33:01

Absolutely and when you're able to communicate openly and honestly, even about those hard emotions. What this does is it builds trust and strength in the relationship. That's why John Gottman says that conflict, disagreement, argument, it's not a bad thing. Problems are an opportunity for connection. It's an opportunity to say, oh, this is something I highly value. This is an emotion I'm feeling and it's a chance for you to be vulnerable with the other person and let them in on your understanding, to feel felt right.

Speaker 2 33:31

Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 33:32

It's crucial for navigating a health crisis together. So here's some tips Schedule check-ins, so set aside dedicated time to talk. Maybe it's right before bed, or if it's in the morning or for breakfast, like, hey, let's do a check-in. What's on your heart? Brene Brown says what's on your heart and mind. So what's on your mind is something like oh well, we have our infusion appointment today and don't want to be late because it's, you know, 30 minutes and it's at the bottom of the hill and we have to get from our last appointment. So that's like on your mind. And then, what's on your heart? That second part of that check in is you know, maybe my heart is really heavy because it's Valentine's Day tomorrow and I want to have 100 more more valentines with you, and that would be, you know, grappling with the fact that cancer is such a hard thing to navigate. It's something that might be weighing on someone's heart. So scheduling check-ins.

Speaker 1 34:26

The second strategy there is to use I statements, so express your emotions without blaming your partner and practice active listening, so focus on truly listening to your partner's feelings, and those are some things that are essential for maintaining a healthy five-to-one balance.

Speaker 2 34:43

Yeah, definitely, and allowing that person to be vulnerable, and again they just want to feel felt, so maybe even repeating back to them. Oh, I hear you're saying this, is that what you're trying to say? Because sometimes we don't say what we mean and we don't mean what we say, and so Clarifying is huge.

Speaker 2 35:03

Clarifying. And so, instead of like hearing something that might offend that person, saying hey, like this is what I'm hearing. So I hear that you're saying you know, yada, yada, yada, Is that correct? And sometimes with us it's like oh wait, no, no, I meant to say this, I meant to Let me try again. Yeah, yeah, let me try again. I meant to say it in this way.

Speaker 1 35:27

Oh, the redo.

Speaker 2 35:28

Yeah, the redo.

Speaker 1 35:29

That's like something we're super excited about. This will be our last tip for communication. So this is something in our social, emotional curriculum positive choices we talk about with kids when they have problems. You do a repair, you give kids a chance to both say they're sorry and come up with a solution. And one of the options for repair is to let kids have a redo, like, okay, let's start over. So now let's take the same problem.

Speaker 1 35:55

You know, maybe one student took a book out of the other kid's hands and a page tore and they started yelling at each other Okay, let's try again. So the child A says can I please read that book? And then child B practices and says I'd like to read it now. Can we change in five minutes? So you basically have the two parties who are having a problem try it again, but this way, in a way that is a more helpful strategy for solving that problem and it allows them to repair. So you and I did that. We had some kind of challenge where we were both not our best selves. Again, cortisol right, when you're stressed out, you are sick from radiation. I had been on the phone with insurance, which drains my soul.

Speaker 2 36:36

Oh, even hearing about that makes my blood boil. The phone with insurance which drains my soul oh, even hearing about that makes my blood boil so we did not have the best problem-solving interaction.

Speaker 1 36:43

But then later on I'm like, oh my gosh, can we try something for science? And you're like, okay, For science, we did a redo. I'm like let's try the same exact thing over. I'm going to share my needs and how I wanted to feel felt. Now that you know where I was really coming from, let's do it again. And it might seem silly, but it was actually helpful, right?

Speaker 2 37:01

Oh, super helpful.

Speaker 1 37:03

It lets you redeem yourself basically.

Speaker 2 37:04

Right Do over.

Building Strong Relationships Through Appreciation

Speaker 1 37:06

Do over. So thank you so much for tuning in. Those are some of the things that helped us in terms of applying the five to one ratio in your own relationships. You can think about being intentional, about expressing your appreciation, being an active listener, integrating some humor whenever you can and maybe having some more physical touch, more hugs. Maybe start with seven seconds.

Speaker 1 37:36

If 20 seconds feels like a stretch maybe start with the seven seconds, and if you want to learn more about John Gottman's research or find other supporting information that we talked about today, I'll be sure to include the links in the show notes. We hope that our story has offered some hope and inspiration and demonstrated how the five to one ratio can be a powerful tool for navigating challenges. And remember even in the face of immense challenges, love and connection can thrive.

Speaker 2 38:03

Amen.

Speaker 1 38:05

Thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 38:06

Take care.