The Breakthrough of Remission: Joy Amidst Uncertainty

Thomas is officially in remission! After months of intense treatment, unexpected complications, and significant uncertainty, this milestone feels nothing short of miraculous. From bone marrow once 94% leukemia cells to being cancer-free, this episode reveals how this journey has transformed our perspective on life and time.

Join us as we share the full story behind our recent absence, including dealing with Graft Versus Host Disease (GVHD), unexpected ER visits, and the discovery of a brain aneurysm and aortic regurgitation. Amidst these challenges, we found profound joy in the smallest moments—a sunny morning, a good cup of coffee, or simply holding hands during a walk. We'll also dive into Brené Brown's "foreboding joy" and how our faith allows us to hold both deep happiness and lingering uncertainty simultaneously.

This isn't a return to our old normal, but a powerful step into a new one. We're committed to carrying forward the lessons learned: practicing mindfulness, finding joy in everyday miracles, and leaning on faith through all of life's ups and downs.

Key Takeaways:

• Practice Mindfulness: Cultivate presence to strengthen your prefrontal cortex.
• Find Joy in Small Moments: Actively counter "hedonic adaptation" by appreciating everyday pleasures.
• Acknowledge Vulnerability in Happiness: Embrace "foreboding joy" by focusing on gratitude. 
• Lean on Faith Through Uncertainty: Discover how faith can provide a foundation in challenging times.

Resources & Mentions:

• Brené Brown: Learn more about "foreboding joy" in Daring Greatly 
• Bob Goff: Author of Undistracted 
• Connect with us on Instagram 📱
• Subscribe to our new YouTube channel for visuals from our journey, behind-the-scenes photos, and extra content! 🎥 

Call to Action:

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! Share this episode with someone who needs a renewed sense of hope today. 

Transcript

Welcome Back & Health Update

Speaker 1 0:03

Your brain is the powerhouse behind your life. On this podcast, we explore strategies to strengthen your connections, build resilience and navigate life's ups and downs, with a focus on brain health.

Speaker 2 0:15

Discover how understanding and caring for your brain can transform your relationships and empower you to face any challenge with confidence.

Speaker 1 0:22

Get ready to brain it on. In this episode we're diving into a health highlight that explains our recent absence, sharing some monumental news we've been waiting to reveal, and exploring how we're navigating a new normal, both with joy and lingering uncertainties. We'll also share some practical takeaways, backed by a little brain science, on how to live each moment with intention and gratitude. Welcome back, brained On listeners.

Speaker 2 0:54

Yes, welcome back. Hello everyone, Great to be back. Let's just jump right into the health highlights without further ado. Adieu to you.

Speaker 1 1:09

Love that button. It's good to be back. It's good to be using the button again.

Speaker 1 1:12

Still got it. It's been a really intense few months since March when our last episode aired. Thomas has been dealing with a lot. For starters, he developed GVHD, also known as graft versus host disease, which is a pretty significant complication after stem cell transplant for people. For him, it's been a huge challenge to really get it under control and, honestly, we're going to have a whole episode devoted to GVHD. We'll kind of dive deeper into that into the future. We are going to tie it into Lord of the Rings, because I think mordor is a very appropriate comparison for gbhd. It's not a good place to be in, but for now we're really happy to say that it's a lot better managed.

Speaker 2 1:55

The gbhd is yeah, on top of that, there were a couple of surprise er visits due to syncope if If you don't know what syncope is, it's a fancy word for passing out.

Speaker 1 2:08

Yes.

Speaker 2 2:08

So I passed out a couple of times and hit my face on the floor a couple of times, once in Portland, one down here, you should see the floor though. Yeah, you should see the other guy. Yeah, the four. I only bled a little bit. Anyways, the second time was actually because I was down in Bend getting an infusion and my vital signs were such that looked like someone who is about to pass out. My diastolic and systolic blood pressures were just super, super soft and low. They thought it might be an infection brewing.

Speaker 1 2:47

And we're like, okay, what antibiotic do we get for that? And they're like, no, no, you need to go to the ER right now.

Speaker 2 2:53

And this is right. When we got back to Bend and I was done with the whole ER thing up in Portland.

Speaker 1 2:58

You were just discharged, returned back home from OHSU's ER.

Speaker 2 3:02

Like three days ago and they're like all right, well, let's have you go back to the ER. He's like no, and I couldn't escape anywhere, because if I stood up to try to escape I'd pass out.

Speaker 1 3:14

Yes, we had a wonderful nurse. She transferred you down to the ER and you were joking that it was a trap, but it ended up to be a good thing.

Speaker 2 3:31

Yeah, they did a full workup on me and both of these ER visits I was checked into inpatient and put in a room on a floor and they did all sorts of tests. They did tests checking my brain, checking my heart, making sure I didn't have a stroke, making sure I didn't have an aneurysm, and they found one, and they found one. Yeah, they found a little tiny aneurysm, it was 0.2 centimeters.

Speaker 1 3:52

Just a little baby.

Speaker 2 3:53

Just a little baby one they said it's not concerning and we'll just keep an eye on it, and the ER in Bend they found some aortic regurgitation.

Speaker 1 4:01

So we have some new specialists on the team. We have a cardiologist who's tracking your cardiac function. You have a repeat echocardiogram I think, in November, and now we have a neurosurgeon who's phenomenal. We got to meet with him. I got to nerd out over the brain after your appointment, after he went over all of the specifics of your treatment plan. Then he said do you have any further questions? And I said what are your thoughts around neurogenesis? So that was really fun to talk about and nerd out about. But basically, this brain aneurysm that they discovered was they call it incidental finding?

Speaker 2 4:35

Yeah, incidental finding. Incidental finding.

Speaker 1 4:36

Something they're going to monitor, but at this point, nothing that is worth operating on. So, all that to say, we've had a lot Super busy and recording has not been on the top of the to-do list.

Speaker 2 4:49

No, it's been a little occupied.

Speaker 1 4:51

Keeps going to the bottom, but now it's at the top.

Speaker 2 4:53

Yeah, it's been a lot, to say the least, but despite these ongoing challenges, we have some absolutely monumental news that we've been wanting to share, news that truly changes everything.

Speaker 1 5:03

That's right. Following Thomas's most recent bone marrow biopsy and he even had a lumbar puncture he is officially in remission Woo.

Speaker 2 5:18

Love that button.

Speaker 1 5:19

That's our live studio audience. But, thomas, congratulations. Remission is such an amazing word live studio audience.

Speaker 2 5:26

But, thomas, congratulations. Remission is such an amazing word, yes, yes, one of my favorite words. Now it's felt like a concept that's been just out of reach and it still doesn't feel real, it's still sinking in. This journey to remission has definitely changed us and given us some new perspectives on time and life, not to be confused with life and time. The restaurant, which is delicious. We go there quite often, in fact, this episode is brought to, confused with Life and Time, the restaurant, which is delicious.

Speaker 1 5:45

We go there quite often. In fact, this episode is brought to you by Life and Time. Free range fast food.

Speaker 2 5:52

Not really Just kidding. Maybe we should look into that sponsorship. Having it down the street is pretty convenient.

Speaker 1 5:59

Treat yourself, treat yourself.

Speaker 2 6:01

In all seriousness. Our journey to remission has taught us the importance of living and appreciating each day.

Speaker 1 6:07

Absolutely. You know, experiencing cancer, fighting it, so to speak, and just these other health challenges can really change your perspective and just the way you view day-to-day stressors and it brings into focus those good parts of life. And suddenly there are small little things like a sunny morning, a morning that doesn't have smoke because there's fires and bend in the summertime, a really good cup of coffee, seeing our cat named Kitty purring next to us on the couch All these things become huge. It's like really the lens of life has been adjusted when you go through something like cancer and you see just this vibrant beauty in moments that might have previously been overlooked. So what we've both found is it's about living each day like it could be your last, and not in like a morbid way, but more in a way of having like an intense appreciation.

Speaker 2 6:59

For sure. Yeah, for the average person, life can often feel like a race. You know our constant striving for the next big thing, the next job, the next promotion, the next trip.

Speaker 1 7:09

Disney trip.

Speaker 2 7:11

Next Disney trip For us. In our minds, we often live in our future and in our past. Going through an event like this really brings you to the present and anchors you to now. It made me realize how important living in the present moment really is and not letting my mind wander to the what-ifs of the future or the has-beens of the past or whatnot.

GVHD Challenges & ER Adventures

Speaker 1 7:34

I learn a lot from you and just seeing how you fully lean into the present, I think between us I probably am the one who jumps to the future a lot and come up with different plans, especially as we approach different medical scenarios. So I really admire that about you, that you can just be where your feet are planted, as Bob Goff says.

Speaker 2 7:54

Yeah, it's about being fully there for small, seemingly simple joys. You know, illness has a way of stripping away the superficial and highlighting what truly matters. A way of stripping away the superficial and highlighting what truly matters.

Speaker 1 8:04

I totally agree. And you know that feeling of immediate joy, even when everything else is, you know, really hectic, that's going on around us. It was so palpable when we got the news. Several several days ago we had a telehealth visit. We were just sitting there waiting for Dr Desai, our transplant doctor, to give us the information that we were really waiting for, and then she said you're in total remission. And we said but aren't there any more tests that might show otherwise?

Speaker 2 8:32

And she said no, oh, yeah, sure We've been burned before.

Speaker 1 8:36

Actually, when Thomas had his induction chemo, his first round of treatment at OHSU.

Speaker 1 8:41

We were there for a month. It was his first experience having chemotherapy. We heard after the first set of results Thomas, you're in remission, you can go home, no need for a transplant. So we celebrated, we texted everyone that we knew. And then what? Four or five days later our doctor came back a different doctor and she said I'm so sorry, but the more sensitive bone marrow test came back and you actually do have a little bit of cancer left, 1% cancer. I'm like 1% is not too bad. She's like actually in the realm that we're in, it's enough to have a transplant. So we really, I think, had that. We're kind of guarded. We didn't want to fully celebrate, even though we saw my chart news popping up on our phone, results showing that, you know, it didn't seem like there was evidence of cancer, but we were just waiting until we heard our doctors say it.

Speaker 2 9:28

So we were cautiously optimistic. That's a great way of putting it.

Speaker 1 9:33

We had waited for over two weeks I think it was about 16 days to be exact for the final results, and MyChart kept sending us these different test results and they wouldn't. It doesn't like you have a new magnesium level, it just says new results posted, and so we would both like hold hands, say a prayer, open up the MyChart app, and it's like your magnesium's low.

Speaker 2 9:54

Your phosphorus is high.

Speaker 1 9:55

These really, you know, inconsequential levels. Wint wint Yep. So we were just holding our breath so many times because we really didn't know what the results would be.

Speaker 2 10:06

Yeah, it was just a profound relief that washed over us. When we did get the news, though, and the very first thing we wanted to do was to share that joy in person, so we immediately got in the car and drove straight to my mom's house, actually.

Speaker 1 10:19

That was so exciting. It was one of the coolest things. Honestly, to walk in to give her the news and then just to see your mom's face, just being there face-to-face in person, seeing her sheer happiness, was just a moment that I will never forget. It was really powerful just how excited she was to celebrate with you in that remission.

Speaker 2 10:39

Yeah, especially in light of she'd recently gotten some kind of harder news about her stage four pancreatic cancer evolving and growing a bit since she started a new type of chemo and everything, and so it had been kind of a glum week and so getting to share that with her and see her light up was amazing.

Speaker 2 10:59

But after that we drove home, got some food from Market to Choice and sat on our front porch and you know the sun of Choice and sat on our front porch, the sun was setting. We put on some old timely music. I think it was like Ella Fitzgerald or something.

Speaker 1 11:10

Yes.

Speaker 2 11:11

Something from the 40s. We watched the deer just peacefully munching on our neighbor's trees. We didn't stop them, sorry so sorry. It was so quiet and so simple, I don't know. It's like a huge weight had been lifted off our chest, being able to just sit there and hear the breeze and be present, you know it was really fun to sit on our porch and just be with each other.

Speaker 1 11:38

I mean, you and I are such chatty, kathys I feel like we're usually talking all the time about everything, but in moment we just sat on the couch and let the news sink in. It wasn't about big celebrations or fireworks, it was just savoring that simple moment together in the quiet beauty of our front yard. It was something that I feel that we're still trying to actively cultivate just being present with each other.

Speaker 1 12:01

Yeah so peaceful, so peaceful, just being present with each other. Yeah, so peaceful, so peaceful. And a big shout out goes to my dad and my brother, who worked together to build our patio furniture that we're now sitting on our front porch furniture and it's really, really comfy. We even took a nap on the front porch the other day.

Speaker 2 12:17

And I totally would have helped them assemble it too. I was in Portland, though. Yes, unfortunately, Just so you know I'm not lazy.

Speaker 1 12:25

We didn't know when it would be delivered. We were hoping it'd be delivered when we were back, but we were delayed. In Portland, thomas, you know I mentioned he got that lumbar puncture where they took some of his cerebral spinal fluid out. Well, the first procedure that he had done in Portland didn't go well, so he had to have a second one the next day, which delayed our coming back.

Speaker 2 12:46

So it was a wonderful treat to come home and to have all of this furniture put together. So kind of them yeah.

Speaker 1 12:50

Very nice. We were really grateful not only for the patio furniture, but for the fact that my dad flew to Bend to stay with us, for I don't know exactly how long he was here, maybe 10 days or so but, he wanted to be here.

Speaker 1 13:02

He knew that we were going to get the news the results of the bone marrow biopsy and if it was great news he wanted to be there to celebrate. If it was really hard news, if the cancer had come back, he wanted to be there to be an emotional support and then to also help us move back to Portland, because that might have been a you know, the next course of action would be to just dive right back into treatment. So he was here and fortunately we got to have just a really fun, celebratory few days together once we finally got the news.

Speaker 2 13:31

Yeah, yeah, had some laughs, ate some pizza. It was good. It was good, it was a good visit.

Speaker 1 13:36

So now let's transition into just navigating the new normal, and we want to call this next segment Joy Admits Uncertainty.

Speaker 2 13:45

As incredibly happy as we are and we are truly overjoyed we also want to be real with all of you. For those who understand the intricacies of cancer, especially with my aggressive form and after my post-allo transplant, getting remission news is fantastic. However, it's not the final chapter. My counts are still low, my platelets are still low and, with a history of such aggressive cancer, the worry about relapse is a very real presence in our lives. Thankfully, I'm going to go to an oral chemotherapy drug soon here that should keep it at bay. However, I need to wait until my platelets get high enough.

Speaker 1 14:21

We need Olga to kick it back into gear. Let's get high enough.

Speaker 2 14:24

We need Olga to kick it back into gear. My little cell factory is to start kicking in gear and making more blood cells.

Speaker 1 14:36

We're very proud of Olga, which is what we fondly call his donor she like this graft versus host disease.

Speaker 1 14:38

Again, we'll talk about it more later in our next episode, but really there's something called graft versus leukemic effect. So this you know kind of immune response that she was having where it was attacking his healthy cells like his skin and his eyes, but it also means that his you know the graft was attacking any kind of residual leukemic cells. So that was amazing. So awesome job, olga, getting rid of the cancer. Now we're just waiting for her to start working on making some more blood products for you. So, going back to that feeling of immense joy hearing the remission from our doctor, while we have that on the one hand, we also have this grappling with some underlying anxieties, and that can be completely real for people who are going through something like this.

Speaker 1 15:23

This is what Brene Brown calls foreboding joy and I believe we spoke about this. Maybe it was our first or second episode of the podcast. We talked about foreboding joy and this is something where, when you're so overwhelmed with happiness that you almost start to brace yourself for something bad to happen, almost like to protect yourself from the potential pain of losing that joy. She calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. So you're excited, celebrating massive victory, but then there's kind of this quiet whisper of what if? In the back of your mind. It's this paradox intense happiness mingled with a deep sense of awareness of vulnerability. And, as Thomas mentioned, the journey for us truly isn't over. We are looking at a stem cell transplant booster. Hopefully, if Olga doesn't start producing the blood that we're hoping she will in about eight weeks, then we'll have to go to having a booster, more stem cells, basically from her. So we gave her an ultimatum.

Speaker 2 16:23

She has eight weeks. We gave her an ultimatum.

Speaker 1 16:25

She has eight weeks you have eight weeks.

Speaker 2 16:27

Oh man, she's awesome. She has to agree to do this, this German gal.

Speaker 1 16:36

When we say we're giving her eight weeks, we mean to say his immune system, the cells in his body, Right right, yeah, yeah. They're not going to ask Olga if she will donate Until eight weeks from now. They'll reassess and then if his counts still aren't as high as they'd like, then we'll kind of pivot and explore having his donor come back on the picture, hopefully. So a lot further to go. Gvhd, heart cardiac monitoring and the aneurysm is what's on the horizon.

Monumental News: Achieving Remission

Speaker 2 17:02

Yeah, you know, when we talk about this remission, it truly feels nothing short of miraculous, completely Because we learned on Friday, when we received the final results, just how significant it was. We looked back at my older labs and when I was initially diagnosed, my bone marrow was 94% leukemia cells.

Speaker 1 17:21

Which is just crazy. It's nuts 94% leukemia cells, which is just crazy, it's nuts. I was looking at the average amount of I think they call that disease burden, how much leukemia you have in your system at diagnosis, and you are far above and beyond what most people have when you have such a high disease burden. So 94% leukemic cells, that means almost every cell in his bone marrow was cancerous. So I have little goosebumps all over. You have come so far.

Speaker 2 17:47

Yeah to be at 100%. Yeah, it's amazing 100% donor 100% donor and 0% cancer, 0% host, yeah.

Speaker 1 17:59

But then you know backtracking only 60 days post-transplant, your cancer returned on Christmas.

Speaker 2 18:07

Right.

Speaker 1 18:07

And this time it was around your brain and the cerebral spinal fluid. So to go from cancer being so prevalent in your body and then returning really aggressively around your brain and now we stop and we're like you are in full and complete remission. It's just a testament to something beyond in our perspective, something beyond just medical science. For us, it's a gift from God. It's just a moment that reinforces our faith in a really profound way.

Speaker 2 18:37

Yeah, and that's where our faith has stepped. In these moments of profound happiness mixed with lingering uncertainty, it's our faith that's sustained us. Through this. We acknowledge it while also acknowledging the reality of the road that might be ahead. Romans 8.28 says and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose.

Speaker 1 18:59

You remind me of that verse a lot, and that's really. It's been helpful to hear you say that.

Speaker 2 19:05

Yeah, I feel like I'm reminded of some song lyrics that actually are from the Parnell Boys. They have this album from I don't know 1999 or something. They were in high school. These are some mentors of mine. They're worship leaders and pastors and they're in the band Precious Bird and they go on tour and they're amazing people. But one of their really early songs from when they were in high school the lyrics were only you can take the hardest parts of life and form them into something you can use. Only you can take these wild and wandering eyes and focus them on you. That's good, and so I feel like, with the good and hard things in life as they're handed to us, we can submit those to God and say please do something good or beautiful with this, even though it looks like there's no way there could be. I think that's a way that we live in peace.

Speaker 2 19:54

I'm able to have joy in the midst of all this stuff because I just feel like I'm letting go and letting God and then asking Him to do what he can or what he will, so that even the hard things I'm going through, even the hard news I get, can be turned for good for somebody's sake.

Speaker 1 20:11

We say when we record this, if there's one person who hears one of these episodes and if it speaks to them, if it gives one person a renewed sense of hope, whether they're going through cancer treatment or not, that's our goal is just to impact one person. So you stated that so beautifully, thomas. Just we want God to be able to use these really tough things to help other people.

Speaker 1 20:34

That's really important to us, and also our faith allows us to hold both emotions, both profound happiness and just this kind of quiet apprehension simultaneously. Your counselor, who's amazing, says what does he say? Two things can be true.

Speaker 2 20:50

Yeah, two things can be true.

Speaker 1 20:51

That's so good. Understanding that, two things can be true. It really helps us. It stops there, though.

Speaker 2 20:57

Three things can't be true. Nope, not three, only two, only two.

Speaker 1 21:02

Sorry, only two can be true, and it gives us peace to lean into the gratitude that we have every day, so every positive step. Even though we know there's uncertainty, we have this kind of foundational hope and it gives us this perspective that you know each day is precious. We are present and mindful, as you, as I watch you do that, I'm you. I'm inspired to be more present, and I think something that's important to mention is this isn't just a philosophical choice. I think it's a deeply practical one.

Speaker 1 21:36

When you're navigating this kind of journey, it's like a muscle that you're flexing, learning how to lean into the hard times and just also understand that every day is a gift. So it's that duality. You're kind of holding the tension there. There's a really good book, and it's about cultivating mindfulness, about consciously choosing to be present in whatever's going on. Bob Goff is the author, and the book is called Undistracted, and something that it says that I really appreciate about kind of being present is it says what would it look like if we decided to see people and places as if they were holy and worthy of our full attention? Wow?

Speaker 2 22:13

Yeah, for me, that's meant truly seeing the goodness in people around me, especially, you know, during this journey.

Speaker 1 22:18

You say that a lot. You just see the goodness of humanity.

Speaker 2 22:22

Really, yeah, I have seen the most beautiful sides of humanity as I've walked through this. Just our capacity as a species for empathy and comforting one another, willingness to go out of your way to bless someone else.

Speaker 1 22:37

Like the doctors, the nurses Right, the volunteers at the cancer center, you mentioned.

Speaker 2 22:42

Everyone's been amazing.

Speaker 1 22:43

How you're needing to hydrate more. So we go in for hydration and blood infusions what? Twice a week at least, and just the folks who come and bring us sandwiches and just say how are you today? It's just witnessing the amazing beauty of the people around us.

Speaker 2 22:59

Yeah, yeah, I can't believe how much support we've both gotten through the season, and I'm more than thankful for that.

Speaker 1 23:08

We also, of course, want to mention our family and friends, who've been so wonderful and shown up for us in really big ways. Another person who provided an unexpected joy would be one of the pharmacists at OHSU. I think she worked on Sundays and I would always go and grab your meds. You had quite a few of those in Portland when, after transplant, as I mentioned, my dad came from Florida to Ben to be with us. Just a couple of weeks ago or a week ago my sense of time is off right now but my mom came to Portland when we were staying in Portland and the pharmacist, steli, said she just knew how happy I was that my mom was there, so she just thought that was really neat. And then when I told her that my mom had left, she knew that was going to be hard on me. So when I went to pick up your pills the next time, she had a handmade card and a Starbucks gift card and chocolates and it was just this is the pharmacist, mind you.

Speaker 1 24:03

Yeah, one of the pharmacy staff members. It was just really beautiful the amount of care that she showed Someone who I consider her a friend and it was really neat that normally you don't have friendships spread up like that, but just seeing people really have such a deep level of care and compassion has been really beautiful.

Speaker 2 24:22

Yeah, for sure, sure.

Speaker 1 24:23

So another thing, as we've reflected on this whole process, for us is shifting our mindset from someday to a mindset of today. So who or what can we appreciate right now, in this moment? Not, you know what is this amazing trip, or this amazing you know, experiences that I'm looking forward to, which is good. It's important to look forward to things, but, like in this present moment, what can I be appreciative of? What can I appreciate, and what present moment what can I be appreciative of? What can I appreciate and what small act of kindness can I offer, what moment can I fully immerse myself in? And these are the types of things that we try to be mindful of and think about, and I think it brings us a level of depth in our life that we hadn't anticipated before.

Speaker 2 25:06

Yeah, Like we've talked about before, it's given us gratitude for the little things, like when your body is fighting a serious illness, a day without intense pain or a meal that actually has flavor.

Speaker 1 25:19

You lost your sense of taste several times.

Speaker 2 25:22

I did, which was one of my least favorite side effects. I'd rather be nauseated, really, not being able to taste food. That's my one, I don't know that's. One of my coping mechanisms is to eat delicious things.

Speaker 1 25:37

It's so sweet because your sense of taste is off, and so you made me, for the first time, chicken fried rice and it's something I've been craving since like middle school, because I got food allergies in high school anyway I can't have soy I can't have soy.

Joy Amid Uncertainty

Speaker 1 25:50

So you made that for me the other day on our grill outside and then, you know, I had a bite. I'm like this is the best. And then you're like, okay, cool, I'm just gonna add some salt to it. And I look over and you like added salt, took a bite and then you kept adding more salt because for you, I couldn't taste.

Speaker 2 26:05

I'm sorry, this is so bland. I take a bite here. Come bring yours over here. I'll salt it too.

Speaker 1 26:11

Yeah, like this is actually great thanks, but anyway, a day where you can taste food is a blessing.

Speaker 2 26:19

Yeah, even being able to like appreciate walking around the block. You know, sometimes with this anemia, with my red blood cells being so low, just getting up and crossing the room can like get me out of breath, and so, on days where I'm able to stand up and my blood pressure is able to keep me, you know, erect and I can, you know, walk around the block, that is a huge win. Right there, totally, it becomes life-giving. So, yeah, anyways, this gratitude definitely just sustains me. It's something I want to carry forward into remission, because I think we mentioned before that joy comes from gratitude.

Speaker 1 26:57

Yes, it's gratitude that makes us joyful. Joy doesn't make us grateful, it's gratitude that makes us joyful. I think that's is that how it goes.

Speaker 2 27:06

I think so. I think that's a Rene Brown quote. I think so. That's a Renee Brown quote, yeah.

Speaker 1 27:09

Yes, and I think, as you mentioned, just taking walks around the block, holding each other's hands and walking together. One of the ways that foreboding joy can show up in my life is holding each other's hands, the reality of not knowing where this disease will go, and so every walk that we take together is so precious, because I don't know how many we'll have. I mean, our dream is to be like 90 years old and going to Disney World and just holding hands and being super wrinkly, that's plan A that's plan A Get wrinkly together.

Speaker 1 27:42

Super wrinkly, walking around Adventureland, but we don't know what the future holds. And so, holding your hand every day, I just soak that in. You know, when I start to feel myself, when you see me start to get kind of teary-eyed, you're like, hey, babe, gratitude, right Right now we're here together. We had this moment. Gratitude, right Right now we're here together. We had this moment. I think that's really beautiful.

Speaker 1 28:07

So my encouragement to everyone is just to give the person, the people in your lives who are meaningful, give them a hug, hold their hand. If you have a silly disagreement, that's come up and maybe it doesn't feel silly, it feels really real and present. I would encourage you just to stop and think about the beauty that it is that you get to spend that day with them, that time with them, because we don't know how much time we have left on this earth, and so I think when you put it in perspective, it helps you let go of some of the things that feel like irritations and when you just appreciate each moment, it's a really beautiful way to live.

Speaker 2 28:42

Yeah, it turns your mountains into molehills, you know, really puts stuff in perspective.

Speaker 1 28:50

Completely, and this isn't a perspective that we want to lose now that you're in remission. In fact, it feels even more important to live this way, just to honor the journey that we've been on, by embracing every single day with that intentionality and gratitude, and we want to continue practicing mindfulness and to constantly choose joy and connection. Never take the small wonders of life for granted, all while leaning on our faith to navigate whatever is ahead.

Speaker 2 29:18

Remission isn't a return to the old normal. It's a step into a new normal, one where we carry the lessons learned, the deepened appreciation and the commitment to living each day fully, you know, sustained by our faith, through both joy and the lingering uncertainties. We hope our experience can inspire others to cultivate you know, that perspective too, and find the gratitude for everyday miracles, even without facing a health crisis. What were you telling me? A concept the other day of hedonic adjustment or something like that.

Appreciating Present Moments

Speaker 1 29:50

I'm glad you brought that up. In fact, that's a perfect segue. And to our takeaways we're going to sprinkle in some brain science and we will talk all about hedonic adaptation. Ah, key takeaways Living each moment with joy and faith. You want to kick us off with number one.

Speaker 2 30:07

Yeah. So first one, embrace the present, cultivate mindfulness and consciously engage with the current moment. Don't wait for a crisis to appreciate the here and now.

Speaker 1 30:20

This also makes me think of my family. My parents and my grandma moved to Florida. This also makes me think of my family. My parents and my grandma moved to Florida and we love visiting them. It's so neat to go to this tropical, amazing vacation, just minutes from Disney World, so we love going there and also we used to live right next door.

Speaker 1 30:40

When they lived in Bend. When they lived in Bend, yeah, and we used to have family dinners all the time and I would walk over and have coffee in the morning with them. And so it just reminds me not only about appreciating the remission, but also just appreciate the people in your lives. They might move, there might be changes, and we still stay so connected and close with them, which is truly special. And also I don't think I appreciated it to the extent that I do now, that time where we lived so close that was cool.

Speaker 2 31:08

Don't know what you got until it's gone, type of Exactly.

Speaker 1 31:11

And whenever we see them, it does make it extra special when we have those times together now.

Speaker 2 31:16

So that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 31:17

A big deal it really is Back to brain science, though. When you practice mindfulness, this can actually alter your brain structures, which is crazy, right? Sometimes we think of oh you know, we think of the word mindfulness, and it kind of sounds like a soft science, but in actuality, when you do practice this, you are strengthening the prefrontal cortex, and this is the part of the brain that's associated with the tension, emotion regulation and reducing activity in the amygdala, which is our fear center. So there's a lot of physiological changes or anatomical changes that happen as you practice this. Should we go to number two now?

Speaker 2 31:54

Yeah. So takeaway number two is find joy in the small things. So train yourself to notice and savor the little moments of beauty, connection and comfort that often go unnoticed.

Speaker 1 32:06

We listened to a Happiness Lab episode, which is a great podcast if you're searching for another thing to listen to and Dr Laurie Santos mentioned the concept of basically this finding joy in small things and one of the practices she recommended is saying delight Like literally out loud saying delight and maybe like pointing your finger.

Speaker 2 32:25

Yeah, didn't she have her finger up, like pointing at whatever is delight?

Speaker 1 32:29

And we did that after the episode. I think it was during the fall, and so we you know, walking out to our front yard we would see all the leaves changing colors and we said delight. And we should start that again. What?

Speaker 2 32:39

do you think, start it back up? Yeah.

Speaker 1 32:41

Just say it out loud Delight. And if you do it in a funny voice, that makes you laugh even more. But it's just, yeah, training your brain to notice the little things.

Speaker 2 32:48

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 32:50

The brain science that supports this is that when you actively seek out small joys, this triggers the release of dopamine, which is the neurotransmitter that's linked with pleasure and motivation, and it helps reinforce those positive emotional pathways pleasure and motivation and it helps reinforce those positive emotional pathways.

Speaker 1 33:07

There's something, Thomas, that you started to touch on, and this is a powerful antidote to the hedonic adaptation. So hedonic adaptation is the brain's tendency to get used to new pleasures quickly and return to your baseline level of happiness. So if you buy a new car or you get a new job that you've always been wanting, your brain basically adapts. It's like, wow, this is great at first, but then you kind of go back to your baseline. You kind of have this adaptation to those types of things. So if you can find joy in a variety of small, seemingly simple things, rather than constantly chasing those big highs, you can keep your reward system engaged and prevent the another word they call is the hedonic treadmill from taking over Always, you know, seeking the next big thing. Just appreciate the little, simple things, and that could be an antidote to that hedonic adaptation.

Speaker 2 33:55

Oh yeah, the hedonic treadmill is a new one to me now. Yeah, I haven't heard that one until just now, but it makes sense, because you're going and going and going but not getting any closer to the direction you're going, right.

Speaker 1 34:07

Exactly.

Speaker 2 34:08

You can never catch it Precisely.

Speaker 1 34:11

I think this also is this concept of a return to your baseline level of happiness is something that shows up in the research, not just for the good things when you get a promotion, but also when really hard things happen. There's a podcast called the Slight Change of Plans and the host talks about interviewing people who've lost their legs, their limbs, people who've gone through traumas in their life, and even though they've gone through these hard things, they talk about how they overcame them. Or even people reflect back on these really yucky things and they say I'm actually I wouldn't change a thing because I've grown and I've learned and you know, I've made these connections and I'm more resilient. And I mean, when I've heard these people's stories this is before you got cancer I remember thinking I can't imagine how something that hard and that horrible could you know be in someone's life and yet they would say that they wouldn't change a thing Right, which is pretty amazing.

Speaker 1 35:06

So I think for me, what I've learned as well is that going through something as big and as scary as cancer not just yours but also your mom's has been extremely heavy and challenging. And yet we also find joy and we can do hard things and we can return to our baseline level of joy, even though there's immense, immense difficulty. So I think that's helpful to remember, that our brain can also adapt to challenging things, return to joy, and that's that's good to know. You and I used to always say if something bad went wrong, you remember something really hard was happening in life. We'd say, well, at least.

Speaker 2 35:47

At least we have our health.

Speaker 1 35:48

At least and we would specifically call that At least no one has cancer. No one has cancer right now in our family.

Speaker 2 35:53

Actually we said that specifically a lot Many times. At least no one has cancer.

Key Takeaways & Brain Science

Speaker 1 35:56

At least no one has cancer whatever issue was happening in life, and now we have cancer on a couple of friends Got to find some new stuff, to get grateful for Right Little things and knowing that we can do hard things. That's something my mom tells me. She said Lindsay, you can do hard things. I think there's a Winnie the Pooh quote and it's like you're stronger than you know, you're smarter than you think. I'll look it up. It's really good.

Speaker 2 36:21

Okay, have you pulled it up?

Speaker 1 36:22

Yes, it goes. You're braver than you believe, stronger than you seem and smarter than you think. It's a pretty popular inspirational quote from Winnie the Pooh attributed to Christopher Robin. So wow, it's just we can do hard things. You can do something that you never thought you could possibly imagine doing, like going through cancer treatment, thomas and you can adapt, you can grow and God can work things together for good.

Speaker 2 36:49

Definitely.

Speaker 1 36:51

Number three.

Speaker 2 36:52

So number three is acknowledge foreboding joy we were just talking about. So recognize when you might be experiencing foreboding joy and that feeling of vulnerability when something wonderful happens. Foreboding joy and that feeling of vulnerability when something wonderful happens. Instead of bracing for impact, practice gratitude in that moment to lean into the joy fully. That's being vulnerable. It's a really vulnerable place to be to allow your joy to be out like that.

Speaker 1 37:20

I couldn't agree more. The brain science that supports this is that when we shift from anxiety to gratitude and moments of joy, you're interrupting a pattern that might otherwise activate the fear response. This helps train your brain to associate high intensity, positive emotions with safety rather than impending doom, and last night we were in bed and this was a foreboding joy moment. I don't even know if I told you or not, but something about me is I like to make sure all the doors are locked before we go to bed, something that other folks share. Who?

Speaker 2 37:52

does that little sprinkle of a?

Speaker 1 37:55

little ocd there. But um, one of the things is that you will go up and check the door for me and I'll say I don't know if I checked the front door, and you're like, I, babe, and you even have the what is it called Orthostatic hypotension. So like getting up out of bed and then walking. You have to do it kind of intentionally, mindfully.

Speaker 1 38:13

So you're like oh, I got it, babe. So you stood up and you walked and you made sure the door was locked and you can't, even though you knew the front door was locked. You did that for me and I just got this foreboding joy because I thought I just love living with you and I love that you check the door for me and I love that you start my coffee in the morning and that we get to snuggle at night. And the thought of not being together, the thought of not having you check doors for me, is something that felt me. It made me feel extremely vulnerable as I was thinking just about how much joy I had about living together. It was intensely vulnerable for me and then I just realized you know what. I'm just going to snuggle you even harder. If you wondered why I was snuggling you so much, that's why yeah, I couldn't breathe for a bit there.

Speaker 2 39:02

That was the sound of it. That's me being squeezed. Yep, yep, okay.

Speaker 1 39:07

Too vulnerable. Number four let's move on, all right.

Speaker 2 39:10

Number four Lean on your faith. Slash values, you know, in moments of mixed emotions and uncertainty, allow your faith or values to sustain you, whatever that looks like for you. For us it means trusting in God. Romans 15, 13 says may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so we jump back and lean on that one a lot. It gives us hope and puts things in perspective. And letting go and letting God kind of like we talked about before, like really giving it over and saying the ultimate outcome is out of my hands, Exactly, and it's to you know.

Speaker 1 39:54

No matter what happens, how can we help other people through it?

Speaker 2 39:57

Exactly.

Speaker 1 39:59

How can we turn this into?

Speaker 2 39:59

something that's good. Make the most of what time we do have.

Speaker 1 40:03

Exactly so. For us, faith is something that's good. Make the most of what time we do have. Exactly so. For us, faith is something that resonates deeply. For others, maybe this is leaning on your core values, a deep sense of purpose, something that provides strength and peace and, I think, holding on to hope. What do you say? Hope deferred makes the heart sick.

Speaker 2 40:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1 40:19

And is that from?

Speaker 2 40:20

the Bible? Yeah, I think it's in Proverbs. Let's consult Google Pastor.

Speaker 1 40:27

Google, pastor, google says it's a proverb. You're right. Proverbs 13, 12. Nice. It describes the negative emotional impact of having a hope or dream delayed or denied, and the contrast in the proverb is when a desire is fulfilled, it's like a tree of life, bringing joy and vitality.

Speaker 2 40:47

So hold on to hope. Oh nice, Well, that's a nice little gem there.

Speaker 1 40:51

That was a bonus.

Speaker 2 40:53

Yeah. So we're incredibly grateful for this milestone of our mission and we're committed to living each day with heightened awareness and appreciation while on this journey, learning what this journey has taught us and being grounded in our faith.

Speaker 1 41:08

So thank you everyone, Thank you for being a part of our story. We truly hope that our experiences encourage you to embrace the preciousness of each moment. Hug someone tightly, hold someone's hand, preferably someone you know.

Speaker 2 41:24

You might get an assault charge. You have to be careful out there.

Speaker 1 41:27

Someone you know. Today and every day, we hope you can really appreciate each and every moment and trusting that faith can guide you through joy and uncertainty alike. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk with you soon.

Speaker 2 41:42

Take care.