From Boot Camp To Big Buck: Joe Riley's So. Oregon Success Story

Burn country can feel empty until you read it the right way. We sat down with Joe to break down how a brutal two-fire landscape in Southern Oregon still held mature blacktails in daylight—and how a simple, disciplined system made them visible and killable. Instead of chasing country, we focused on the “bedroom door”: that precise edge of thicker cover where thermals roll, wind crests, and deer stage before stepping out. Joe set a blind on three intersecting trails, used grain, buck urine, and doe estrus, and anchored the camera and access around wind. Within three days, seven to eight bucks were hitting the set in daylight.

We contrast that with a nearby open set that drew only a doe and fawn, showing why 200 yards—and better proximity to bedding—can be the whole ballgame. We talk habitat preferences in inland, drier zones: scrub oak pockets, cedar and willow rub lines, and why post-fire regrowth creates feed that pulls deer tight to cover. You’ll hear why noise rarely pushes deer out when habitat remains, how a 40-yard move can shift arrival by hours, and what to add next season to complete the illusion—namely a solid bedding pheromone to keep mature bucks circling back.

From boot camp takeaways to real-world adjustments, we connect dots on camera strategy, scent layering, and low-impact access that plays with thermals instead of fighting them. We also touch on herd genetics, rut behavior, and why most of your bucks will fall into two dominant lines within a tight home range. If you hunt blacktails in Southern Oregon or Northern California’s inland foothills, this is your blueprint for turning burn scars into buck magnets.

Enjoy the episode? Follow the show, leave a quick review, and share it with a buddy who’s still setting up too far from the bedroom door. Your support helps more hunters find smarter ways to tag a mature blacktail.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Welcome back to the Black Tail Coach Podcast. I'm Aaron. And I'm Dave. This week we have Joe Riley. We're gonna do his success story. And if that name sounds a little familiar, it's Dave's brother.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

It's my little brother. His little brother. He's bigger than me, but he's still my little brother. He could probably crush me.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

And I always start these out with asking about background in hunting. But I'm thinking that if we've heard Dave's story, they're fairly similar.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah, pretty much. He started bow hunting first.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

And what it was is my dad got me into it when I was 18.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

And what is the age difference between you guys? Two years?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Two years apart, yeah. Okay. And so I started first, and then Joe would go out with me.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

One day. It just took one day.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

And yeah, he just came out and watched me trying to sneak at everything. And the next thing I knew, he had a bow, and he was out there doing it too. So that's how it kind of all started.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

Now, at one point though, you were more of a duck hunter. Yeah. Now are you still more of a duck hunter?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

No, I'm like a fair weather hunter now. Okay. I'm not gonna lie about that. It comes with age, I think. Because this even in the cold stuff is just like I don't know. When is duck season? October, it opens up opening day of rifle season and go until the end of January.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Oh, okay.

From Ducks To Deer And Seasons

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Rifle deer. Yeah. Yeah. Which isn't so bad then, but once you start getting into November in a typical year, yeah. November, December, January, going out standing in cold water.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

That or you're breaking ice and shoving it underneath the existing ice to make open water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Or like even though it was warm this year, it you'd still sit in and pouring down rain. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're out. Well, you could have a duck blind, I guess. I don't know how it works. Wow. All I know is it involves a shotgun. Yeah. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yep. And lots of shells.

Why The System And Boot Camp Matter

SPEAKER_04 2:11

And lots of shells. Okay. So you got your buck. And this is the I wanted to do this episode. So you got your buck in Southern Oregon. And we actually get a lot of guys who ask, does this work in Southern this system work in Southern Oregon? And then you mentioned that you did the system this year when you went down because you were you joined us last year at the boot camp.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

And how so what's your thoughts on the boot camp? What did you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

A lot of information and stuff. And I picked Dave's brain before. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was he would give me some tips and stuff like that, but he wouldn't give me all of it. He made you pay for it.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

That's not true at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I mean family ties. So and no, I mean, I would take it. I would take that information and everything like that and try to figure it out on my own.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Yeah. But it is different picking little pieces versus sitting through the course and the crap.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

I was just going to say, you need to sit down. We need to have hours where I can explain how everything works and how it's all linked together.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Because then it really starts making sense. You get guys coming up, and you know what this is, Aaron. We're going to do the shows in a couple weeks. And guys come up and they start asking questions, and you're trying to piecemeal knowledge together. You're trying to take separate pieces of the puzzle without having the frame or the outside edges to work with to help bring it all into something that is really comprehensive for the average guy.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

And we've given a lot of the class coursework in the podcast. We've just talked about it. A lot of the why and the what we do. The how is what really comes across, I would say, in the class is how we're doing it, what order, all of those the amount of stuff you put out. The amount of stuff you put out. Yeah, those kind of specific details.

Southern Oregon After The Fires

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Habitat, really giving good examples, taking guys out in the field and showing them exactly what we're talking about when we say this this habitat is prime. This habitat is up and coming, and this habitat is primed out. You know what I mean? And when you start realizing why they're in that habitat, and again, all the puzzles get start fitting together, it's like, oh wow, it makes total sense.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Yeah. So we get a lot of questions though from guys, Southern Oregon, Northern California, and I would say Northern California that's more inland, a lot of the drier area versus right at the coast of Rek, Crescent City, because a lot of that habitat I would say is very similar as far as their rain, but they're asking about it because it's a lot more wide open and everything else. Yeah. But you still used a lot of the techniques. Now, full disclosure, you told me that you had actually ran the system, but then you were you guys were out just glassing at one point.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

We got down there and we only have nine days. Yeah. Well, I only have nine days. My cousin can go back, he has his own business, so makes his own schedule. But I'm down there for nine days and stuff, and we pretty much scouted out and everything to see what's going on. Because a couple of years ago, we've had two big fires go through this area. Okay. And you know how you guys would say that, oh, well, you got to pivot on whatever happens and stuff like that. Well, now we're just like, what are we gonna do? Where are all the deer at? Were they still in the same area? Are they out of it? Whatever. Are they barbecue? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

I mean So when you say big fires, Joe, was it a mosaic burn or did it just come over and take everything?

Finding The Bedroom Door On Burns

SPEAKER_01 5:53

It took every I mean, I've never seen dirt black. Wow. Okay, everything was black and stuff, and that was on one side of the mountain, and then two years after that, another one came through and it took out like the upper end of the ranch and then some. And so we were thinking it's like, oh well, they're not gonna be in the burn, and lo and behold, there's some big bucks in the burn, and it's just like holy smokes. So is that where you got your buck? No, your bucks? So where I had my set at was in a burn area, but it was already growing back.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

Okay. So a lot of fresh new shoots and feed.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah. I mean saplings and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

That's getting to see a picture here.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Oh, that's still kind of thick.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, but it used to be really thick there. And so yeah, it's starting to grow back and everything. It doesn't have the thick stuff like we're looking for, like around here and everything like that, and all that coast and stuff. But still, you can't walk through that stuff without making any sounds or nothing.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Now, is that the thickest that's in that area? There's thicker.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

But I think what was I was looking on onyx and everything, and the reason why I decided to put it there is because the thicker stuff is down below, and you always have a wind that comes up and it just crests over and then it goes into that grassy area, dead trees and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

So it brings all the scent to them. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And every picture I have pretty much all those deer coming out of that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Right on.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

So still like the bedroom door that we talk about. Right, right. You pretty much found that quick.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah, we've hunted this area for seven years, eight years. Okay. But we did not ever get bucks on camera like this.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

And you said that there was a difference, your cousin Danny, that he had put up a ground blind before and cameras. It didn't really produce anything because it was what would you say more blind, just putting something up and hoping it worked?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

And actually that picture I just showed you, that where he had his set was probably a hundred yards beyond that. Okay. And didn't get any didn't get nothing.

Cameras, Scents, And Set Placement

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Now, when you say you didn't get pictures of bucks like that, are you talking smaller bucks, bigger bucks? Are those big bucks compared to what you were seeing, or those that picture right there is a small one. We've had But they're bigger bucks than you were seeing in the past. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Oh, okay. So I mean, last year I have a picture of a fork and horn chasing a dough. Danny and I, we have a rule for ourselves and everything because we know what caliber of buck is in there. It's three point or better for us. And it has to be a really big three-point for us to actually shoot it.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah, and we're looking at one right now. You got it. Yeah. That is a that is is it a three by four?

SPEAKER_04 8:52

That's a four by five. Because counting the eye guard in there.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

And he's got the eye guards are about two and a half inches on one side, and they're thick. I mean, he's got good mass, Joe. He long tines. That's a great buck. Yeah. He's wider than the six by seven on a shot down there. Yeah. You said 19 and a half inside? Yeah. Yeah, that's a dandy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

And yeah, definitely good mass. And it has that white tail look that they get when they're when they're three points. Yeah, when they're the main beams are they're sort of branching off and stuff, which is uh kind of a cool look.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, he's bladed on that side there.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Yeah. Now, but you you've had he's wider. Is this the widest buck you've gotten when you're down? How many bucks have you gotten sunning southern Oregon?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I've shot so this was eight years, seven years. I've came back empty-handed one time. Okay. So and so I got one on the wall, I call it half rack. Okay. Because this eye guard's probably no, he's not very big. But the thing, he's a three-point on one side, and all those points are broke off. Oh. And then the other side, about the size of this eye guard, that size broke off.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

So he's got just the eye guard on the one on one side?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So I call him half rack and everything. You know, so right on.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Wait, you know, we shoot for uniqueness. Yeah, there you go. Hey, as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

It's not my tag. It's it. Well, the one I shot last year, it's a three-point on one side and a club on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Really? Yeah. See, I shoot that just for the character of that. I love that stuff, man.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Oh, oh, I got that from Mike. Alcoholics. Yep. Mike Dippo.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

I'm looking at a picture of a big three on one side, and yeah, it's almost a drop tying club.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Oh, we'd talked about that's actually reminding me. We'd talked about for certain guys, I don't know if it's the ones who maybe that should be a gift for people who come on to do their buck, making one of those patches. So yeah, that's a good idea. Now, is that a business of Mike's Nackaholics? Nowics is Or is that somebody they know?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

That does the patch. The patchwork is a friend of his. Okay. That started it and everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yeah. So what it is, is they'll take your buck and they'll create a patch with that same rack on the patch, and then you can attach it to a hat or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Like the Hushin boys. The Hushin Boys, or uh there's a there's a guy bonded outdoors. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

So we'll need to uh follow up on that later.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

That's that would be Yeah. I mean, it's pretty cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So kind of a cool gift there. Oh yeah. And Mike, he has one and everything. He showed it to me and everything. He's like, dude, he goes, I'd love to do that for you. So I was like, all right. So I sent you.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

If you guys haven't picked up Mike Dippo, is probably the kindest guy you'll ever meet. He's just a super guy. Nakaholics and Bow Trader. Bow Trader, that's his other great guy. He and his brother, both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

So if you need some any kind of bow bow equipment, yep, go on bow trader. It's kind of a club classified Craigslist for bow equipment, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

And if you're just archery crazy, go on knocaholics. You'll love it.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah, he's a good guy. He's funny.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I mean, I don't like him, but he is a good guy.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

We're all we got the big hunt coming up with him. Yep. Yeah. So in May. Anyway, getting back to the actual podcast.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

So run us through how it went, Joe. You guys went down there, did you first day establish? Did you hunt for a couple days and then decide decision sets?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Scouted for two days and everything, just driving around and checking things out and stuff. And yeah, it was warm down there. And we just checked things out, drove around the areas that we've known, and Danny brings his all of his stuff. I bring all my stuff. It's like, all right, what are we gonna do? We went back to the motel. We were like, what are we gonna do? I said, Well, I'm gonna put my blind up. So we went to the feed store and got the grain and the molasses, and then we went out there, and I only had one camera. And so, because my other cameras were up here, and we uh got out there and he's like, Well, where are you gonna put it? And I told him where I'm gonna put it and everything. And he's like, Well, a couple years ago I put mine over there, didn't get anything. I said, Yeah, but this run is just it goes right along the edge, right on top of this ridge and everything, and it the wind comes up, goes over, drops down in there. I said, You just never know. Let me impress you with my newfound knowledge. You did that. I did and everything. And he's like, Well, you know, it's Danny.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

And they're probably both going, man, Dave doesn't know what he's talking about. That guy's a well idiot.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Now, did you run any sense on the set as well? Did I? Yeah, like Don Estris or Buck Yarn or anything. Yes, I did. Okay.

Too Close, Too Far, Or Just Right

SPEAKER_01 13:53

The Tink 69. Okay. And then I was so I was gonna put my I found the spot because I it goes to the west and everything, and it drops down into some more thicker stuff. Well, there's a road like northwest of it, and I didn't want people to come up from that. So I was like, well, I'll just put it right here. And I had three trails intercepting right there. So it's just like, okay, perfect. And so I found a stump, put the bait. Yeah. We'll just call it bait. Yeah. Put the grain out. Yeah. And I did that, and I put some buck urine around it and stuff. Not a whole lot. And I took the dough estrus and sprayed that around. So then I did that, and I was gonna put my camera on this one cedar tree that you see in that picture. Okay. I was like, all right, not gonna put it there because uh that was a buck rub. On the cedar. On the cedar tree. Okay, and the thing was that it wasn't on the tree itself, it was up on the branches and stuff. So it's just like, oh, well, now I'll go over to this brush pile over here, and I found a fallen log and I put the camera on that. And so then it's like, let's see what happens. How many bucks did you have coming in? Do you think? Probably about seven or eight. Was this the biggest buck? This? Yeah. This one was so this one we got driving around. Oh, oh, yeah. But I had got some pictures of some big ones that are just crazy huge.

SPEAKER_04 15:32

So you combined, I mean you had your set going, but you combined the glass scene and all of that because of time.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

You were we really didn't glass.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So just driving around drove around, and we've seen, you know, like I said, we know the caliber of bucks that are that we have seen in the past. And we we've seen spikes, we see fork and horns and some small trees, but to actually get them on pitcher or on camera, yeah, I was blown away big time.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

So what school is next year they will be there. Yes. Still. Yep. That to me, that's the coolest part I would say about the system is when you learn that they don't go very far. And even and I thought that they would have a bigger range. I was talking to some guys in California that or southern Oregon that they would have a bigger range, and they're still like you take the spot where you saw them and you go a mile out and draw a circle, and he will be in that area. Yeah, I believe it. No matter what. And so, yeah, even that down there they have a really small range area that they're hanging out in.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yep. And the thing was so where I had my set this time, Danny's was probably 200 yards from where I was at. He had a doe and a fawn.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And he didn't all he put was the bait out and the little bit of scent, and that's it. I did the scent, I did the drags, I did the bait. Okay, so the whole thing brought in a bunch of blacks.

Habitat Preferences And Pressure

SPEAKER_00 17:05

He didn't commit entirely then. Right. Well, I mean, in it's understandable in the sense that most guys have a hard time doing that the first year, yeah, until they get some kind of success or whatnot. Yeah. But yeah, you got some dandy bucks here, Joe. I'm looking at the pictures, and it's like there's some several four by fours and some big threes and whatnot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

It's interesting because you talked about that they did the rubs on the on the branches of the cedar tree, because we just got done talking about when we were doing the can I trust AI with my hunt? I went down a rabbit hole looking about what kind of trees they rub and white willows, but it also mentioned the cedars. So it's kind of interesting that you mentioned it was a cedar.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

And with everything that we just read about all of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Right. And talking about that episode and everything, it's like before I even noticed that tree, obviously, before I walked in there and stuff, we're finding these bushes on the side of the road, and they're just shredded.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, just tore up.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah. And, you know, I got that picture this on my app. And yeah, it's a willow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

So yeah, there's something about willow tree, it's because it's a soft bark, a soft wood, that black tails just when they get them and they just annihilate them. Yeah. It isn't like a small rub. Okay, that tree must have owed him money. Yeah. Because they're just taking it out on that tree, you know. Yeah. Yeah, we find a lot of them in cedar and as well. The bark is soft on cedar. So I think that's another reason why they go to that one and stuff. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah. Yeah, these were just bushes, but they were willow bushes. Mm-hmm. So right on. And then you come back the next day and it's even more thrashed. So I was just like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

All right. And you come back the next day and there's a blind right next to the bush. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:52

Yeah. And then you come back the next day and there's a carcass laying there. Nice. So thinking about with next year, because you did some research. Basically, you you tested the system down there. Yeah. Do you think that maybe you'll just go to that spot and set up and just hang out there for the whole week? Or do you think it's or you will just still mix it up?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I'll probably still mix it up and everything. I mean, this year, like I said, it was warm.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Yeah.

Noise Tolerance And Deer Behavior

SPEAKER_01 19:20

We had a couple few mornings, nights that were cold, but not like down to the 19s and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

It was probably about Actually, I didn't even ask. That was a daylight pick, the one that I saw, right? Were you getting the these big bucks daylighting?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Every one of my saw was a daylight pick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I didn't see any one night time on that there. And that only took three days. Yeah. I was seriously blown away on how fast it worked. Because remember last year at the sportsman show, I asked you and Bud, how long can how fast can this work?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

And you're like, well, it could take a day, it could take a week, could take two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah. It just and it's funny that you said that because you brought up the fact that Danny, our cousin, Had a set 200 yards down. And typically we always want to be like a mile apart as far as our sets because we don't want that buck to have multiple options. We want him to have one option to locate the dose that we're putting out there. Right. But it takes me back to when Bud the year he got Charlie, the year before Charlie was coming into a set, but it was always just after dark. You know, it didn't matter. I think he had him daylight one time that season, but it was always 10 to 15 minutes after a shooting light that Charlie would show up. And he's asking me, What do you do? What do you do? And I said, it's it's a simple when you stop and think about it, it's really simple. You've got to move closer to the bedding area. You got to get closer to that bedroom door. That's all it is. People want to make it harder than it needs to be. The simple answer is you've got to get closer to the bedroom door. So if you think you're at the bedroom door, you're not at the bedroom door.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

If he's showing up at because he'll stage at that bedroom door before he take does his nightly routine. And Danny's 200 yards, all he got was a doe and a yearling, you said?

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Okay. You're 200 yards, but you're 200 yards closer to that bedroom door. And you've got, I looked at probably 12 pictures there of good bucks, big four points and stuff, daylighting for you. That's the difference.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Bud, we moved Bud 40 yards. 40 yards, and it made a four-hour difference in when Charlie showed up.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

You know, and that's what it's like. Getting closer to that bit. That's all it takes.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

And the buck he got last year was he said it was like 30 yards from where he got Charlie. Yeah.

Next Season Plans And Gear Tweaks

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah. So it's just it guys want to make it, like I said, they want to make it harder. There's got to be a reason. There's got to be a bet. It can't be that easy that I'm just not close enough. You know what I mean? And I I think we get a little bit, we're two sides of the coin here. One side says, Well, I'm going to push it and I'm going to push that envelope till and then all of a sudden we're too close. Because if we get inside the bedroom door, that's not good either.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

That buck, and I tell guys, it's the thickest spot out there, and they're telling me I haven't got a picture of a single deer. Well, are you in the bedding area? Yeah, I'm about 30, 40 yards. Okay, that's the problem. Because now you've gone in the bedroom. They know you're there. They don't want to come to that spot. You've just made it super nervous. And but attest to this, those bucks will not come if you get inside that bedding area. They don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

You have to be on the outside. You can't be more. I tell guys, I I've gone 20 yards and been successful. This year I had a set up on State Land. Yeah. I got one dole the entire season on that set. And it was because I was too far in the bedding. They had cut a mountain bike trail in there, and I thought, well, if I use that to access, but I think it just boils down to it's just too much scent. They just don't like it. And so if you're too far in, you're hurting yourself. If you're too far out, you're hurting yourself. You gotta find that sweet spot.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Yeah, because Danny, his spot, it was a burn where the fire would stop. Oh, okay. So yeah, fire line. And so he was on that. So it was pretty wide open and everything like that and stuff. I guess there was some ponderosa pine around there and stuff like that, but I didn't see it. I'm just going off what he was telling me. And obviously it was more open than where I was at. And like I guess he only got that dough and that earling.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

And so was there there's a lot of scrub oak down there?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Okay. And so an interesting thing that the guys in California bringing them up again, Steve and John and Paul, they were talking about that the bucks down there, they don't like being in the furs. They love the scrub oak. But if they see any furs, anything like that, any timber, they avoid it because they won't find any bucks in there. Kind of an interesting lecture.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

I mean, it it's different. We've caught them in the big timber and we've caught them in the scrub oaks. But now with the last fire that was down there, there's a lot of scrub oak got burnt.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

But there's still some pockets and everything like that. And they get hit really hard with all the locals. Because when you're driving up the road and everything, it's like, oh yeah, there's that guy. He was there last year. Oh, there's another one. Yeah, he was there last year. And they're just parked right outside of the road. And it's all BLM land where they're parked at. So it's just like, what if we walk up that trail, they were thing, are they in a tree stand? Are they in a ground blind? What? Right. Because you gotta get up really early to make that hike. So it's just like, hmm, yeah, we'll sleep in.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

How far in did you have to go to where you did your set? From like where you parked, how far was that?

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Probably 100 yards. Okay. So how you guys talk about having other people, people walking by or whatever like that. And what we deal with down there is people shooting, people riding their quads, people out there Christmas tree hunting, other hunters.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

And people out there just partying it up, especially the day after Thanksgiving. You're hearing tannerite going off and everything. It's just like, what do you do? I guess you use the noise to your advantage or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Right. Well, I mean, you know, it the deer know.

unknown 25:41

Yeah.

Genetics, Ruts, And Herd Patterns

SPEAKER_00 25:41

I mean, if it's going on all the time, they're accustomed to it. It's like logging. It's not necessarily the noise that scares the animals. It's taking away the vegetation, it's taking away the food, the cover, all that equals safety to them. And when you take that away, then it changes their daily routine. But as far as noise and stuff, it you'd be surprised. And we've had con whole slew of testimony from guys that that, yeah, I was only Alex, 20 yards past the gate.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Or I wasn't even in 150 yards, I was in 80 yards, whatever. And I could hear guys walking on the road talking. I could hear them driving by, riding their by. And I'm telling you, the deer are used to that. Yeah. They know where they're safe. And they're going to stay right there because that's where they feel safe. And it doesn't matter where it's located. If they feel safe, that's where they're going to stick.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Danny shot a buck here. Like the first time I went down there, we were I shot a three-point. And he was by himself under a scrub oak and everything. And so we go down to the end of this road to bone this thing out, right? And it's like, okay. So we bone it out, and we have to get back because I have to work that night. And at that time, I was going in at two o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

And so that's dedication. I'm telling you. That's like a seven-hour drive.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah. We're so we we get done bowing this deer out and everything. We're packed up. And I get in the driver's seat and everything. We're heading out. And he puts his release on. What are you doing? He goes, Joe, you just never know. Just throw and go. And I said, Come on, dude, no way. And these guys, we're below this rock pit and they're just banging away on their guns, just going to town. And we come around the corner and everything. We're heading out. And I look over and I said, dude, grab your bow. He's like, what? And I said, Big buck. Big buck. And he's like, yeah, right. And he said, no, big buck. He goes, how far? I said, 15. So we we stopped the truck, and these guys are like on the other side of the road, just shooting away. And so we walked back there. He's like, Where at? I said, just poke around. I see he's on the other side of this tree here. And he just stands there broadside. Danny shoots him just right behind the front shoulder. The buck spins, goes down this freaking hill, death run. He was 15 yards, 10-15 yards from the road. Would have been really nice. But he 400 yards down in some hole. Yep. Just a death run. And we had to drag that thing back up. So we didn't leave that area until 7 o'clock that night.

unknown 28:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

No nap time before work there.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, he drove home.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

Well, to the point of them not like the noise doesn't phase them. I don't know, it was 2023 or something. Dave had a feeder here in the backyard. And the one of the bucks that came in named him Cliff, a small three-point, and Fourth of July. Oh, yeah. And D can't remember if you've been here for one of DJ's Fourth of July fireworks shows.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

The big boomers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

It's a thousand dollars worth of fireworks that he would spend. And so the Cliff is eating in the middle of the yard at the feeder. And DJ goes and sets up, starts lighting. Cliff casually walked into the tree line as fireworks start going off. And it's an hour solid of just booms, the mortars going off. As soon as he was done, 10 minutes later, Cliff walked back out of the trees, walked back to the feeder and started feeding again. So he hung out just right out of sight.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Just enjoying the show. Enjoying.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Yeah at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yeah. And granted, that is a neighborhood buck. An urban buck, yeah. And everything. But even still, you'll hear Larkers talk about it all the time. Well, we're running the chains on this buck or this bull walked right into the camp and all that. And it's just because they get used to that and they don't associate that with danger, so to speak, like they do, like the report of a rifle when it goes off or a muzzle odor. They start, okay, it's time. And all of a sudden they become scarce. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

So what's your plan for next year as far as changing anything up when you go down there? Your approach?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

That's my trophy tag. Okay. Like I I tell Lori that. I say, I got my trophy tag. So usually I get a multi-season tag up here for Washington and stuff. And this year I shot a spike, but it's just like, yeah. So basically a meat tag. But no, down there, I'll probably set up in the same spot and everything. Okay. So I didn't this year down there. It's like, all right. But yeah, I gotta figure out how to set that up on the blind and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

I figured out the best way to do it. So we have it's a telescopic stand that there's it's one of those for the people who do the selfies influencers or whatever, the ring light.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

Unscrew the ring light, and it's perfect for screwing in the ozonics into the top.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

So I was in a ground blind. I just had that sitting up on that stand outside the ground blind, and you can completely adjust it to the direction you need it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Actually, Aaron is in the blind with that round light doing shorts, selfie shorts.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

Hey, here to kill a deer. Bang bang. Holding up the pistol. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

You want some of this? So I'll probably hunt that same spot and everything. Just drive around, check some other things out.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

The big question is what's Danny gonna do? Is he a believer now or is he still we're charging him full price?

SPEAKER_04 31:25

You got the family discount. Danny gets Danny pays full price.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

So I try telling him and stuff ever. He listens here and there and stuff, but it's like the fish and door thing. He's been doing it for years.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

You know what? It's really this is just a way of doing it. Danny is a very successful hunter.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

And honestly, if he doesn't need to do this, why would he change? Right. You know what I mean? So it's no skin off anybody's back or anything like that. He's Danny's a good hunter.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah. Yeah. No, I tried telling him it's like, well, yeah, I can drive around and maybe see more animals and stuff. I was like, well, yeah, but you know, but look at these pictures here. These guys, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

But so you talked about Washington that with that tag, the multi-season being more of a meat hunter. But did you run the system up here too? I did.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

And let's see, early season, I put my cameras out because I'd wait to see if I was gonna have a warehouse or tag or a permit. And so that was July. So I started putting my cameras out August 1st, which was bear season. And I got pictures of bears and stuff, and some small bucks and some milk. But I had a couple nice bucks come in. I sent you a picture of them. I think so, yeah. Yeah. I only got one picture of that buck, and that was it. And I didn't see him after that. And then my other set, I got a picture of a fork and horn and some does and a bear cruising through and some hunters.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

It was a tough season. Yeah. It just is unseasonably warm and that changes everything. Yeah. They don't have to go into a winter pattern, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Right. And then I got that private property in Kalama that I had a camera on, and it's still out there. I gotta go get it tomorrow. But yeah, that's an urban area. Uh-huh. And I got a one picture of an ice buck in there, and I started hunting it when I came back from Southern Oregon. And the only thing that's came in was that spike, but I had the hoteg, the scent roll in. Yeah. Yeah. Had that out and the Evercom. That's one thing I didn't do in Southern Oregon. Forgot that.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Forgot the Evercom? Yeah. Yeah. I used a different brand of that. And I think I like the Evercom a lot better. Yeah. Yeah. So just for our listeners, go with the Evercom. And they do a synthetic version of it too. Just a better.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

And that's the thing. If you're gonna, at least with my system, if you're gonna do it, you need that betting pheromone.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

That just absolutely sells the whole illusion for these bucks. That's what keeps them coming back, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah. Yeah, that was one thing that I forgot to do down there. I forgot it in at home.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

But that being said, it's still what, seven? You said seven or eight bucks came in. Yeah. Yeah. Not bad.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

You didn't see the pictures. There's some really nice bucks bigger than the one he killed here. And this is a really good, I mean, 19 and a half inches inside spread. That's a really good buck. But there's one or two four points there that I'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna put my tag on one of those guys.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Right. Yeah. You know how you were saying mature bucks and everything. Because we have found that like this buck, he was with a doe, you know, 10 yards off the road, and he wouldn't leave her. So again, he's like, dude, just go out this side, come around. And so if that doe stayed there, that buck's gonna stay there. And it did. I mean, like shot the thing, and then it started walking out towards the road and turned around, went back into the brush and everything. And that doe didn't, she just hung out until he fell over.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

And let that be a lesson to all you single men out there. Yeah. The girls, the ladies are bad news.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yeah, we've shot bucks where they're like like the very first time I went down there, I shot that three-point, and he was by himself. Nice rack, good size rack. It was the biggest buck I've shot at the time. And all by himself, no swollen neck, no nothing. The body was small, big rack. Danny's buck that he shot, that one I was just telling you guys about, huge rack, huge body. And it's just like, what in the heck? So we go on the other side of the mountain, and we weren't even out an hour. Danny tags out on his biggest buck down there that has eye guards, like eight-inch eye guards. I mean, it's just crazy. And we get out, and there's two bucks, two bucks chasing three does in the scrub oaks. And Danny comes to full draw, and I said, No, don't shoot that one, shoot this one that's coming back around. I mean, they're running around right in front of us. We're in our street clothes. That sounds about like Danny. Yeah. So he shoots that one, huge rack, small body.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Hmm. I mean, not just the gene pool you got there. Yeah. But that's awesome, dude.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yeah, you know, and then he shot one last year on the back side of the mountain, huge rack, huge body. I shot that club one, huge rack, small body. So but we're not complaining about body size or the racks or anything. It's just weird.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah. We tell guys when you start hunting an area and you start managing your own deer herd, you'll typically find two genetic lines in that herd. And those two genetic lines will be the dominant ones that will come out of probably 97% of your bucks in that deer herd will fall under one of those genetic lines, typically speaking. And every now and then you'll get a third gene pool in there, and and it'll show up once every three, four years, you know. Yeah. But typically speaking, because they live the entirety of their lives inside of 51 acres, that you're generally going to have just the two genetic lines that are in that area that are the dominant ones that are going to show up. That's saying something. When you think that when a doe is is getting bred, it isn't I think most hunters feel like it's a one-and-done kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

So when that doe is in standing esterus and she gets bred, a lot of guys don't realize that she could be bred five, six, seven more times. And typically when a doe has twins, they're not usually tired by the same buck. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so that's what's kind of funny is that guys will think, well, you know the first buck realized she was easy. Well, you know, and they think, well, and I think that goes back to culling the herd, too. Guys want to get the small bucks out. That doesn't mean just because the small that small buck may be the fifth buck to breed her.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

You know what I mean? So it's typically speaking, the top two bucks are the ones that get to most of those doughs and sire a good portion of what comes out of that herd. That's why I say it's usually one of two genetic lines, and then a third one will eventually creep in there here and there. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Interesting.

Wrap Up And Calls To Action

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Okay. So I'm going to wrap us up. We've got a full episode here. So if you could go on, like, heart, subscribe, follow, whatever your platform asks you, we'd really appreciate. Leave a comment, send us a question if you have any questions. If you haven't signed up for the Hunters Gathering, sign up for the Hunters Gathering or the classes. Going to be a great year this year, and we're really looking forward to all those. So until next week.