From Spring Bear Wrap Up To A Smarter Fall Plan With Heather Aldrich

One bad decision can change an entire bear season, and sometimes it takes a full year to see the consequences. We’re back with Heather Aldrich to wrap up spring bear season and turn those hard-earned lessons into a smarter plan for fall. Along the way we dig into what “success” really means in bear hunting, why learning the woods can matter more than punching a tag, and how experience reshapes the way you judge a season.

Heather walks us through two very different spring bear hunts in Oregon and Idaho, including a key mistake: taking a sow that was effectively holding a target boar in an area. That single choice shifted his movement, wiped out a previously hot spot, and forced a fresh strategy built around finding other sows, understanding spring rut behavior, and staying realistic about pressure and late-season dispersion. We also talk about how burns can trick you, why scat tells the truth about seasonal habitat, and what it takes to mentor a hunter when access and mobility define every setup.

Then we transition straight into fall bear season preparation in Washington State: trail camera strategy, travel routes, future food sources, and how to keep disturbance low while still collecting the intel you need. Heather also explains how blowdown, steep terrain, and missing “perfect” camera trees can force real-world adjustments, plus how to pivot when fire closures shut down your best area. From huckleberries and mountain ash to water and cool bedding cover, we keep the focus on practical bear hunting tactics.

To round it out, we get nerdy in the best way: hyperphagia timing, how fast bears can gain weight, den site selection, and why bear hibernation is often “not quite” what people think it is. If you’re trying to connect spring scouting to fall success, this one’s built for you. Subscribe, share this with a hunting buddy, and leave a review with your biggest bear-season lesson so far.

Transcript

Welcome And Season Game Plan

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast. I'm Aaron. And I'm Dave. Okay, this week, spring bear season wrap-up and what we need to get ready for fall bear season coming up here. So we're joined again with Heather Aldrich, the bear expert of our group. And first of all, how did everything go this spring with your lessons were learned? There you go.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Lessons, lessons were learned.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Because we'd had a discussion as you were headed out, and you were we were talking about you'd asked me a question about how do we define success, because it's not necessarily harvesting. Right. It's you get to determine what successful is. So if it's boy, I learned so much this year, or I had just this great experience of being out in the woods or or something like that. So it isn't now granted, harvesting is always the best success.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

But where did you where were you hunting for your spring bear this year?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

This spring, I spent time in Oregon and I spent time in Idaho. So two states. But yeah,

Redefining Success In Bear Hunting

SPEAKER_02 1:05

as far as that success thing, that's uh it's very interesting. John and I spent a lot of time on one of the drives talking about success and how we would define that. And it's it's interesting that where I am now at my age, I define it differently than I did when I was a kid, right? And so and I saw that with my children too, where success in their mind was the tag is punched. Yeah. And and now looking back at things, enjoying life and enjoying the moments in the woods, watching animals in real time. And those are successes to me. You you you've seen them, right? And maybe I didn't punch my tag, and I'm okay with that. This year or this spring, I didn't. The Oregon hunt, I did carry a tag, but that was more of a mentor hunt. And my goal was to get my mentees into bears. And so that wasn't to me, that's a success to to take them out. The Idaho hunt that I did. I had made some errors in judgment in last year, and it it so it goes back to when I hunt bears. A lot of guys that you know, we've talked about this before, they're in the general population. Heather picks a bear.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

A bear, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Like Dave picks a buck. Yeah, a buck.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So we have to dial back a little bit to understand this mistake. So last year I had a boar that I really liked, and he was pretty consistently showing up in the same area. And man, I'd just be a little bit behind him and just couldn't quite make it happen. And we were getting in towards the end of the hunt, and he had the day before beat me to cover, and I knew that, hey, this is the last chance I have, last day before we go home. And so I was in that area and I saw a different bear, and I made the decision to take that bear. Wasn't my target bear. And I was happy with the bear. I mean, it's not like we're settling here or something. It wasn't like that. It's just that I made a choice of, okay, I'm out of hunt time. The season's still gonna be open, but I know I'm out of hunt time, so I'm gonna take this bear. It's a good bear. I was happy with the bear. And it was an older sow. So dial forge this spring. I go back to that same area. I had a plan. I told John I said, Oh, I'm going in hot. I cannot wait to go hunt this area. I'm gonna go get this boar, I'm gonna figure out where he is, and I'm gonna take him this spring. I got in there and he was nowhere to be seen anywhere. And I realized what I had done. I came back out after walking this whole place. I came back to John who'd been waiting for me in the truck, and I said, Oh, Heather screwed up. I said, I screwed up big time. And he's like, Why? I said, I took the sow that was holding that bore in this area.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

That's just what I was gonna say. Oh the one thing that was keeping him in the area.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

That's that's why he was in that area in the spring was because of her. So because I removed her, his need to be in that particular section of his habitat was removed. So he cruised through. I seen his poop on the closed road there. He cruised through looking for her. He didn't find her, so he kept going. And he had no reason to be in that particular area again because there was nothing to hold him. So I had a week and usually I take two weeks for a spring hunt so I can try to target and kind of dog the bear that I wanted. So I knew that I didn't have enough time to really play this bear

Idaho Mistake: Removing The Anchor Sow

SPEAKER_02 4:10

the way I wanted to. And I did locate, you know, kind of the general area of where he would be, because I kept working through the habitat and changing zones, but it just didn't work out. And that was my fault, right? So that was a learning lesson. And it was interesting to me because I think if if I ever went into the woods and I didn't learn anything, I'd just give up. Like, what's the point of doing this anymore? That's that's half the fun, is learning these lessons. And so I know in my long-term plans, which is usually how I plan a hunt, not just like for this year, but maybe five years down the road because the boar's too small and I want them to get bigger, right? If I want that particular boar, then I need to be smarter and not take the sow out of that area. Now, do you run the risk of of losing that boar because someone else comes in? Sure. But that's part of the game, right? So there was that. And then the Oregon hunt, the topography tricked me. It was dirty. So this is the first time I've ever had that happen. And we went in and so we're walking this closed road area, and it's absolute premium. I'm telling you, it's the emerald green, the grass is perfect, everything is the right everything. I time of year, place looks good, the food is premium, it's absolute perfect. And I'm not fine in bear sign. I'm thinking, man, why in the world? This should be hot. And then to come across the pile of really old bear crap and it had berries in it. So it's from last fall, right? And that's not right. Why would there, why would that be here? And I kept thinking, so then we worked some more roads and just kept working different elevations in that same landscape. And I finally did the math, brain kicked in. So this country had burned and it read as spring habitat, but it wasn't spring habitat. It was fall habitat. So I kept finding old, old fall bear poop in it. So the bears, will they come into it eventually? Yes, it will become spring habitat for them. But you got to think of how old these burns are, right? Is it a year, two years, three years? I mean, it it really depends on how hot they burned and did it become a moonscape. But it was very interesting to me that I got tricked. I was like, darn it, darn it.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

So explain that a little because I don't quite follow all of that.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

So when you're walking through the habitat, it has burned. The habitat has changed, right? The the hills stay the same, the water courses are still the same, but the type of plant life that's in there has changed. So canopy had opened up, right? Because of the burn. So it now allows, since the canopy is so open, all those green grasses early in the spring to sprout up. But those bears had traditionally been using that as a fall habitat. So when I see old bear crap that has berries in it, that those berries are not available in the springtime. This is old stuff. So that tells me those bears were in there in the fall. But when you look at it, when you're standing in it at that moment, it looks like spring.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

It looks like gun habitat. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

They just haven't moved into it yet.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

And then you gotta think too that in some of those places it's burned so much that there's gotta be a a loss of certain number of animals, I would imagine, and pushing them out of where they were. So there's some of that in there too. But so this this uh Oregon hunt is the first time I've ever worked with a disabled hunter. And my hat's off to her. Gosh, she's she's an accomplished hunter in her own right. I love her to pieces, and she absolutely put her heart and soul into it. But it was a learning curve for me to try to get her into places where she would have a chance. And that's not necessarily, you know, an easy spot to find because it has to be something that she can get into physically, but yet still have a chance of holding a bear. So we did find some spots like that. They just didn't produce for her. She got to see some some deer and stuff come into stand. But I mean, we gave it our all, and I am, like I said, I am super proud of her because she she really did put her heart into it.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

So going back with because you had mentioned taking the boar out, and it makes perfect sense. Took the sow out and the boar, there's no reason for him to come back because his girlfriend's has moved away in his mind. Yeah. The learning process. I'm curious about the learning

Oregon Burn Looked Like Spring

SPEAKER_00 8:25

of figuring out, oh, that's what it was. Was that something that you kind of already knew, or it just kind of that thought gelled in that that moment after hunting for?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

I think it really cemented home because anytime you make an error like that, you're like, oh ow, got it. But for me, it was that moment of seeing that one single turd in a place where there had been, I I couldn't tell you how many bears were in there last year. Tons of bears. That sow had brought in younger boars as well. And so all that activity was because of her. When I took her out of the equation, all that activity ceased. So that particular spot is no longer good until another sow moves in and takes over her area. So I said, well, we just gotta find other sows, right? Because it's springtime and we're working with the rut, and that's what he's gonna be looking for. So I'm gonna go try to find more sows. And so I started working on some other areas and just, you know, logic. Where would they be? What are they looking for? Same thing in the spring. They're looking for food, the guys are looking for a hot date. And where do I put those two things together to bring that boar into the open? Especially since we ended up a little bit later in the spring this year than I would have liked. We just had life circumstances happen, and that's just the way it is. So you adapt, right? So you've got two things happening. The later in the year it is, the more dispersed the bears are. And it's it's much harder game. And they don't come out in the opens quite as much, and they've had a lot of pressure. So it's no longer a question mark of are they being hunted? They know they're being hunted. They know. And so they're more reticent to come into those places. So I got to bring out what I call told my kids they used to call it busting out the sneaky, busting out the sneaky of everything I could think of to play this. So this is this spot, and it's oh, I don't know, maybe half a mile up further than where this boar was that I had been working with the year before. And since he wasn't there, I said, okay, well, I think he might be up this direction, just looking at the lay of the land and the water sources that were there and the food types, and there has to be more sows. She's not the only sow on the entire planet, right? So if I can locate those sows, I'll locate him. So I went up a little bit further and it's not a closed road. So this brings in a whole new how am I gonna hunt this? I know there's bears using it. I and I picked up sign almost immediately. But this is a drivable road. Now I gotta think of how to out fox them in here. And so below me is a huge cut. I mean, we're talking, I don't know, it's probably a mile all the way along this road. The left-hand side, the upper part of the road is timbered, so they have a place to bed. It's cool, and they have a food source down below. They're not gonna be too bothered by the road in the sense of, yeah, they know people drive it and they're just gonna avoid it. They'll listen for the cars and they'll go in between, right? So I told Don, I said, what I want to do is I am going to have you drop me off and I'm gonna walk this road. Now, this makes it much, much harder, right? So you're not just trying to find the bear, but if you find the bear, you have to step off of the road to be legal to shoot the bear, right? Because you're on an open road that people can drive. We're not talking a highway, okay? It's a it's a gravel road.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Like a logging road.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yes. So it's just not gated. So I know I have to step off of the roadway into the cut to be able to take these bear. And it's downhill, so some of those places are harder than others.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

So you're you're you're hoping about all the things. So you're hoping you're gonna find the bear, you're hoping he's gonna be in a good spot, and you're hoping you're gonna have a place to step off the road, and you're hoping nobody drives by while you're doing all this. But is it worth trying? Absolutely. And I have gotten into bears doing weird things like that because it's unexpected. They don't expect a person to travel like that. So I was doing that, and I'm taking a glass. I had my binoculars with me, so I'd take a step and I'd gloss the cut and I'd wait. Because you can hide a stinking elk in those things sometimes. Like you think, oh, they're just gonna, it's so open, and there'll be a little curved land or something, and it hides an entire animal. So I've learned to be very patient. And actually, John's taught me that because when I first started looking at clear cuts, I would be very, very impatient with it. I'm like, I don't see a thing. I'd like because you'd like I said, you just expect them to just be standing there, whoa, right? Yeah, it's clear cut, it should be open, but it's really not. So was walking along, couple more steps, glass, couple more steps, glass, doing the whole thing. And as I'm doing this, it's towards the evening, and I'm fully expecting those bears to either already be in the cut at this point or to come off that knobby dark timber side, cross the road and go into the cut. And it was just bad timing, really bad timing. And my brother used to call it Baxter timing, but it's just what we do. And as I got to more towards it's a rounder part of this point, and so the road's curving really hard, and I'm having to work a little bit more, go a little more to the outside of the curve to make sure I'm not missing anything as I'm looking down the road in case he's already crossing over here. And I heard this noise to my left, and there's an old, an old road in there. I mean, like it's overgrown with vine maple, and it's it's really thick, and you have to really look hard over your shoulder to see it. And I'm realizing what I'm hearing is not a good noise. I had walked so quietly, I had walked right up on a bear, and he's in that bush on that road, and he had he was going to cross the main line and go into the cut, and I just cut him off too soon. But he's in there popping his teeth and woofing at me. And I says, Well, that's not good. Target angry. I and it it happens, it's not a big deal. How we deal with things is more important. So I'm trying to see if I can see him first to ascertain what kind of bear is this and why is he going DEF CON 4 already, right? So the first thought that came to mind, because we do have grizzlies in there, is this a grizzly or is this a black bear? And it didn't sound like a grizz to me at all. It totally sounded like a black bear. And he was not stopping, man. He was really popping them teeth. And I says, Good gravy, man. So I start back up a little bit. You know, I want to remove that pressure from his bubble. And maybe, maybe he would run in front of me or something like that. So I kind of backed up a little bit and he's not stopping. He's still popping teeth and and woofing at me. And then the scientist brain kicked in and I said, I wonder what bears talk about. I'm gonna talk to him. John later is like, why? I said, Because I had to know. It's the only thing in life that I'm curious about. Everything else, I don't care. Someone asked me why, and I'll be like, Because that's a good enough answer for me. But if it comes to a bear, I want to know why. Why is he doing this and why is he not doing it that way? So I woofed back at him. I'm like, what the heck? Let's just try it. You know, I woof back, yeah, that was the wrong thing. I said it, you know, you've ever said something the wrong way and you immediately regretted it. That was one of those times Target went from angry to furious. So then he's making that noise that I really don't like. It's the it's like a whining growl, and they make it's loud. I said, Right. So I'm still backing up

Open Road Hunt And Angry Bear

SPEAKER_02 15:10

and I'm thinking, okay, I bet this is actually a sow with cubs. I bet that's what's happening right now. Because I thought I heard some skittering up a tree, but I couldn't be sure. So I want to remove myself from the problem altogether. So I radioed John. I'm like, hey, how about a ride? I'm thinking we'll just put the truck evacu. Pretty much. I'm like, come get your wife. I've escalated things again. So poor John. He's like, What? What? I said, Come get me. Now would be a good time. And he came up with the truck, you know, and he wasn't too far away parked, but he's like, What's happening? I'm like, just I need you to park right here. And our little Rosie dog was riding with us, and so she he had his window down and she could smell that bear. Oh man, she went off. So this poor bear, all it's trying to do is get to supper. Okay, and I had some snotty woman come up and say something rude to it, apparently. I don't know what I said, but it was the wrong thing. And now it's got a dog barking, and so we're reloaded up and we left. But I told John, I said, Well, that didn't go according to plan.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

It's like, well, when you learn a foreign language and you say something wrong, yeah, and made him angry. It works with bears too.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah, so the moral of the story is don't woof it bears, don't do that. Don't do that. That was bad, very bad.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

So, how long spring bears two months? April 1st.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

It can depend on where you're at. So, like in Idaho, some of the units it's through June 15th. Okay. Oh, really? Yeah. So you got a good, but by that time, June 15th, a lot of times, unless it's been a really late winter and and I have been up there like June 1, etc., and there's still snow and you it's burned and the grass hasn't come up in those northern units, but that's not every year. And like last year, it was really hot in that time frame. And so the the hides aren't very good. They don't they don't have the under wool anymore and they're not prime. So not my favorite time to take a bear. I'd prefer it, you know, earlier in the spring so that you get a better quality hide.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

But so you said earlier that that you got in there late. What week or time period do you prefer in that spring hunt?

SPEAKER_02 17:06

So that's a really good question. And it's gonna depend on the year. So I that's why when we went to the hunter's gathering, I showed them those two matching slides of the same area in the same week in different years. So it can be pristine perfect one week, and let's say last year 25, right? And then I go to that same area this year, and because spring was so early, it's now burnt and it's not good. So I play it by what is the weather doing? And that's the week that I want to go. And you can be too early and you have snowstorms. We had that happen this year. My poor husband. We there was snow a lot of it, and we didn't have anything. We were just in the car, so that was bad.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

It was very cold. I think I know a guy who's got a wall tent.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

Yeah, I bet he'd self the achievement.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Right. So that was a slight error in timing. So it's timing, not a specific week. So I would prefer if I could always say I'm gonna be like the first week of June. If I could always just nail it down and say, I'm gonna be that first week of June for this particular northern unit. But some years, like I said, it's still burned and you can't get up the mountain. And then there's other years where it's blown out, everything's burnt, and it's you know, 90 degrees. So I pay attention to like I belong to local Facebook groups for the towns around where I'm gonna hunt.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Oh, okay. Oh, that's that's smart.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

And then I can listen because they do the community posts, right? You find out about what's happening and if there's a road closure because you know a tree fell. I mean, they're they're just talking daily life. And it helps me kind of pattern down of where we at in their snow melt. And then there's the apps too, you can look at for weather patterns and figure out what it's looking like far as your snowpack and whether or not you're gonna be able to get in, because that's a big one for the spring. That's a real frustration. You can plan everything right and be there at the wrong time, and it's no good to hunt, or you can be there too late and the bears are dispersed. So this year I knew I already knew I was going late, but I mean, what do you do? Stay at home because you're late. No, I'm gonna go try.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

It's still hunting, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:04

You still get a go exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

So I'm gonna go try, which has a much better odds than not going hunting. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah, 100%. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah, you probably I'm thinking never have shot a bear from your living room sofa.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Not yet. Yeah, I hear there's countries and things where that could happen.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

There's new videos. Yeah, at least bears coming in.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

So I was thinking about as thinking as we're transitioning into the fall hunt now.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yes, and that that was kind of funny. So I get done with this Idaho hunt, and it was June, right? And then I came home from that hunt, and we literally kind of did a turn and burn. We were home for about three days. John was getting stuff done in the shop, and then I went to Washington and started putting game cameras in, prepping for my fall hunt. So I went straight from spring into my fall and getting ready for that. So yeah, putting cameras in and I have a specific bore that I'm after, and so I'm redirecting cameras for that purpose.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

So you you say you're putting cameras in, Heather. What are you looking for? So in areas that you're putting these cameras, what are you looking for a certain habitat? Are you looking for feed?

SPEAKER_02 20:17

I mean, what is I am looking for travel routes. I'm looking for how is he going to be using the topography? I'm looking for food. So right now is June. So I knew on some of these cameras they're a control group, and that's just to get him on camera right now. I know that in a month or two, he's not gonna be on that camera because the food source is gone. So he's gonna be moving. But right now, just to get him on the camera and verify he's still in that particular range.

Choosing Weeks, Weather, And Hide Quality

SPEAKER_02 20:45

And then the other cameras that I set up are on areas that I know will become food sources, but they're not ready yet. So when I go check them here in next month, I don't expect to see a bear on it at all. And that's okay. They're ready to go so that once that food source comes online, I know I'm gonna get really good pictures. And I'm not disturbing the area because they've been there, they're rolling, they're ready. And that, you know, it's it's just kind of playing the game on that. So I actually had a big setback in that this year. And I called the Forest Service because I was like, wow, we got into this place. I've been putting cameras in there, I don't know, probably almost 20 years. And there's so much blowdown. I it's always had a lot of blowdown, which is why there's bears, right? They got the things they love, and it's harder for like our ungels to get through that kind of stuff. But a bear or a cougar or a bobcat, it's real easy for them. They just climb over the top or underneath or in between, right? They can do it easy for them. Murderous for us as humans. And there was way more trees than I've ever seen down in there. And in all the years we've been up in that area, we've been up there probably 26 years, and I've never seen this amount of damage to the forest. So when we got back, I called the Forest Service and I'm like, what happened? Is that did I miss something? Like, I've no winter, what's the deal? And they told me they had two. Very significant events that came through. The one actually blew their weather station apart. And judging by all the trees that are up there, I believe it. I believe it. Wow. So it's a mess.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Well, with all the the rain that we had those atmospheric rivers coming through, I would imagine the ground was pretty soft. So any type of windstorm coming through.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

And a lot of this a lot of this area is old timber. So it's big trees, real big trees. So when they fall, they're a bugger to get around. And it was like toothpicks. Like someone just took the trees and just so they're there. Oh, it was horrible. So actually, some of the places that I normally would put cameras, I could not get to. So I had to think, okay, well, the bears are still gonna be in here. And I want him on camera. How am I gonna get him on camera? And how do I access those areas without killing myself? And I was limited on time, which was a frustration. So there's several frustrations going into this right now, right? And this is where I think hunters sometimes we just gotta go, okay, yeah, all these things are wrong and they're not what we want. What can we do to make it work? Right. Especially if you know the game is there. So I know for a fact the game is there. Been there a long time. I know it's there. Now I just gotta change how I access and figure out how he's changing access to get into those spots. And it didn't take me long. I started picking up bear crap. And I was radio on John going, I got him, he's in trouble. Right. I figured a way to get through that junk and pick that animal up in the landscape. And then some of those spots, unfortunately, I could not put cameras in. There just wasn't a tree or a whatever where I could, you know, get a good view of it. Or because of the steepness of the terrain, I just could not deploy a camera and get the full animal in the camera. If that makes you could get maybe his feet, or you know, I tried different angles and all it just wasn't working. So far as where that made the decision for me on some of the wares. Because I want to get the full animal on the camera. Having a place that I could actually attach the camera to, that made choices for me. And then there's a couple cameras out right now that I'm just fishing. I'm just fishing new spots because I I think this is how he's gonna have to change to go through. So this canyon is a really long canyon, and there's been a trail in there that sits about midline of the ridge. And so you've got water in the bottom, timber, huckleberry plants, all kinds of fun things for them to eat. So very much a fall habitat. He's got coolness to stay cool in when it gets hot. He can get down to the creek, get water that he's gonna need when he's in hyperphagia, and he's got berries everywhere. So all of these are combining to create this habitat.

Switching To Fall Cameras And Routes

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I just need a way to get into it. I need a way to get him on camera. So that's problem one. The second one was okay, now I know he's here and I can get him on camera. Where in this mess can I take him? Where am I gonna set up a stand? I had already made plans for this fall of where I was gonna put in a ground blind. I'm like, I told John, I said this year I'm doing it. I've never bothered with a ground blind before, but because of this particular spot, I knew that would be the better option. So get in there. You you can't put nothing in there. It's trees. They're all laying down. Like you'd have to build a platform and put it on. I mean, it is is bad. So I had to rethink it. I'm like, man, how can I find a spy in here to get this bear? And I found a draw that I've avoided, like the bubonic plague my entire life being in there, because it's a horrific draw. But the sad part is, as rough as it is in there, it's now the better option for entering this area. And so there's a lot of that going on. But getting ready for fall, getting cameras in, trying to get bears on camera so you can tell what kind they are, right? I don't so I'll back up. I'm hunting really dense, dense habitat in the fall. It's really thick, and I don't want to run into a sow with cubs. So my cameras are my fail-safe. They tell me what's in the area, and I can factually say, okay, I have no sows with cubs in this area.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

She's not using it. So you said berries, Heather. Are you looking? Is there a specific type of berry that that you prefer more than another, like salmon berry or choke cherries, blackberries, whatever?

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Where are you at? I mean, you're at the coast, you in the high mountains. It just depends. In this particular area, the huckleberry is one of the denser ones. There's also Mountain Ash. Mountain Ash is a favorite that they like to eat. So all of those come together. There's snowberry. We do have some choked cherries, but not very much. But the majority of that in that area is a lot of huckleberries. And man, you you walk into that canyon when they're ripe, and it's just it the smell is unreal. Like you you can't help but you know, I don't have a great sense of smell, nothing compared to a bear. I can smell them.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

That's how thick they are. One of the things I've been wondering about, and we've talked a lot about Dave and I about this, and I have with other guys, we're expecting the closures of the forest this year because of fire danger, which fortunately, and I hunt Sierra Pacific. The last two years they've been open. Three years ago, they were closed from mid-July through I think mid-September.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

And you might not be hunting a place that will close, but how do you adjust if there are closures to the land that you're hunting? How do you I mean, do you just avoid those areas? Because with an August 1st start date.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

You might have to. You might. And I mean, that's part of the game, right? I mean, it's unfortunate. I don't want that. But if it if they closed it, then I'm gonna have to find a place to hunt. And that actually happened one year to me where I had put in a lot of time and effort into a particular bear, and then their fire came through. And so they shut down everything on the left-hand side of the road. The right-hand side of the road was open. Everything on the left, you couldn't touch it. And of course, that's where he was at, right? We came into the hunt and I had zero for my database. So I started checking out the spots on the right hand side of the road. And anything draws the normal stuff I'm looking for in the fall. Is there a water source? Is there a place for him to stay cool because it's getting hot and he's getting fat? And the fatter he gets, the hotter he gets, and the less he wants to be out in the hot places, right? Having said that, don't say that she said they won't be in the hot places because bears like to do weird things. So and they'll do that. Just be like, haha, she said that, and it's not true. So I know he needs the place to cool down and he needs food. So what does that food look like in that particular area? And so I just started cutting the topography apart for what looked the best for travel routes for him, where he could avoid people and troubles and and pressure. And I got pretty darn close. I set up in this area and I thought I had the right bear trail. And I was off just a little bit, just enough where the bear came in, but he came in on a side trail, what I had thought was a straight trail, but was actually his main travel route. And so it was a hit and a miss, right? But I learned. I learned that area. I was pleased I was able to go in cold turkey, what I consider cold turkey, because I'm usually studying a lot, you know. I've done all the math on this stuff, so it was a frustration to me to go in someplace and not have any of the information I normally play with. I got into a bear, it just didn't quite set up correctly. And that stuff happens even if you do all the math and you study, you're trying to do it all right. Sometimes you'll miss a little, a little side shoot trail that they're using at that time, but it does happen. So if your area closes, you're gonna take the same math. That's what I'm saying. Go to wherever it is open, right? Take those same thoughts into the topography and start looking for him in the environment with those pieces. What's there for his food? What's there for him to stay cool with, and where's his water? Water's gonna be really important.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah. How are you balancing all of this with elk hunting? And I know you're you're just about the bear.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

But John, who likes hel elk hunting, how are you balancing all of the elk hunting with the bear hunting, with the deer hunting, and you know, all those different phases now? Yeah, is it you might go where John might be going on an elk hunt, but you're gonna go look for a bear in that area? Do you combine those or we have in the past?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

We used to pack in a lot with our horses, and so I was the Wrangler, the chief cook and bottle washer. So I'd take care of the stock. And if I could get a bear tag for that area, if it was available over the counter, then I would pick one up for the fall. So the guys would all be out bugling and doing their thing and chasing elk and and I'd be sitting in camp, glassing up elk and laughing at them because they didn't see them and I did. And you know they're all annoyed. But I'd come back and you know, I'd have dinner for them, and and I'm like, so how'd it go today, guys? See anything? Yeah, bull walked right through camp. Just thought I'd tell you that.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

So when do when did the bears go into hyperphagia?

SPEAKER_02 30:38

It's gonna be in the fall, and it's it's triggered by usually food sources. So I've been reading up on that more because it's a gray area of a specified time. And we actually have

Windstorm Blowdown Forces New Access

SPEAKER_02 30:50

a customer that came who's a biologist, a federal biologist, and he happened to be a federal bear biologist. Oh, come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly. I'm like, come on in, sir. Let's have a little chat. So I was picking his brain about definitions of things because the papers, when you read them, don't always define what a term means. So let's take emergence when they come out of the den. And I was asking him, what defines emergence? Because another biologist I had spoken to said it is when the bear is 50 yards from the den, when the radio collar bear is 50 yards from the den. Okay, okay. I'm like, so that's when you're quantifying emergence. So if he goes back to the den, is he no longer emerged? Because they don't leave the den right away. They're gonna bebop around that den for quite a while as they're waking up. And so I'm irritated with that kind of science. I want quantification of it means this and it's always this, and it's not the way it works. So emergence is different from paper to paper. So when I read a mean date, meaning an average date of a specific area, that's not perfect. It's not perfect in the sense of I can always go into that area and it's always going to be April 15th for that particular one, right? It's not necessarily true. So the same is true of hyperphagia. Hyperphagia is food-based. When is the food coming on board? And is the time of year the same thing? So I pick usually August, late August through September. September is definitely kicking off big time. You like there's no doubt in your mind.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

I'm sorry, I don't want to mean you're a rookie heather. So I mean, this intrigues me here because you're basically saying it's the same like it is with the fawns. When the does start dropping fawns, it's not because fawns are born without scent.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

But because of what's happening in that environment around them, as far as the food sources, bears know that that's the time of year to look for the fawns. Yes. So it you're saying it's basically the same thing when it comes to hyperphagia. When these certain foods become ripe or start showing up on trees and whatnot, that triggers them into thinking into knowing that it's almost time to go down. We need to start feeding up.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

And that's kind of what the research that I've been reading and and talking to these biologists is leading towards is a a conscious decision there on the bearish part of okay, there's enough food, and the food source is going to become scarce at some point. So they know that the food source is going to become scarce. That ending date of when that food is now scarce controls when they enter the den.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

So it's it's like back engineering that for the same thing for hyperphasia. Well, when did it begin? And it's not perfect world, but I can tell you, in at least in Washington State with the bears I've been playing with, that August through September, oh man, they and I've got them on camera. Like you can look at them and you're like, Good night. They are they're fat. They're hugely fat. So I have a bear on camera August 1, that same bear on camera September 30th. He's gained a huge amount of weight. A huge amount. So they're saying two to four pounds a day. And I look at some of these bears and I'm like, I believe that.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Two to four pounds a day. Yeah, it's a lot. That that is, yeah, that's impressive. It's just the I'd like to lose two to four pounds a day.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Right, right. I oh, you know how you can do that? Cancer.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, don't that's bad advice, Aaron.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Don't tell him that it was like a pound a day. Yeah, because on the scale's like, yeah, he lost another pound a day.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

For those of you who don't know, Aaron did have cancer one time.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And uh yeah. So made made for the great someone saw

Berries, Fire Closures, And Plan B

SPEAKER_00 34:20

me after I was all done with chemo, and right after I was done with chemo, I was like, wow, you look great. Making a big deal and stuff. And I was like, oh, I found this great weight loss program. Oh my word. It was called cancer.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Yeah, this is not a recommended method for losing weight.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

My dark humor and the shocked look on her face, and it was so worth making that comment just for that shocked look on her face. That's funny. So, can this be altered? Is it they see that the food source is running out? So that means okay, if there's no more food, I might as well go to bed. Or is it like that? Because I'm thinking of a bumper crop when there are tons of berries. You know, we have those years where the the weather and everything, the conditions are perfect, so that there's just so much of something.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yeah. And I can't imagine that it's a hard cutoff for that bear. You know what I mean? Where they're they're like, oh, one day I didn't find a berry. Okay, no. Today's it. You know that.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

It's a gradual thing, just other stuff in life. It's a gradual moving towards the den as the food source depletes. It's not a, you know, all of a sudden they just change. There was a a paper I was reading, a boar that stayed up really, really late. He was up through January in a place where they're normally already in den long before that, but he was eating dead cow elk. So the researchers said when the elk ran out, he went to bed. That was the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

So would you say that given that time of year, uh and this is this is fascinating to me, Heather. I'm glad we're having this conversation. As they see these certain food sources appear, are they sticking closer to the den because they know that it's going to be time soon, or does that make them travel farther from the den as the food sources closer to the den begin to run out?

SPEAKER_02 36:05

It depends on where where where you are in the United States as far as where they like to den. We'll start there. But then where's the food source located? They don't necessarily den right next to a food source. They don't. There's I don't have the the math with me right now of of the average they are from a road, but there's a particular average of mileage from a main line that they like to be on when they den. They're not gonna den in valleys. And if you think about that, it's because it's wet, right? So if they if they dug a hole in the dirt right there and they went into it, it's gonna flood on them. So they they're not gonna pick places like that. They're gonna pick ridges, right? And they're gonna pick ridges that are gonna keep them warm and yet snow insulates if you if you think about that. So they they gotta have a place where they can get in and it can't be so rocky that they can't excavate the ground. Yeah. So you you have what they call ground nests that they dent in. You have trees that they'll dent in. It could be caves. Okay, so when I first started playing with bears, and look, I went back to the cartoons, right? Like that's where they live. They live in dents, they live in dens that are in caves.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

So every time I see yogi on TV, yogi screw that all up.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

So I'm like, I gotta go find caves. And you know, I and then I started reading papers and went, oh, right, okay, that's not true. And yes, they'll be in a cave, but it's not the norm. They like old dead trees. So it's it's not necessarily where the food is at. It's where can they den and their den's not gonna flood? Where can they den and they're gonna be protected from the elements? Where are they gonna den where they're not gonna be dug up by another bear or disturbed by, say, wolves bust into the den. I was just reading a paper here, was it today? I think it was this morning. It was talking about predator on predator. So basically, bears that had gotten into a mountain lion's den and devoured the kittens. And then that was also reverse-engineered of another one that was talking about well, here's where cougars got into a young sow's den and killed the cubs. So it so if they're pregnant and they're gonna give birth in the den, they're gonna look for places that are safer, that are they're safer for their babies to be had. So all of that plays in. So not necessarily food close to the den site, could it be? Sure, but not necessarily

Hyperphagia, Denning, And Not-Quite Hibernation

SPEAKER_02 38:20

the same playing book. They will travel a lot in the fall to go feed. I was listening to a guy the other day and he was saying it was much harder to hunt in the spring than it was in the fall, and I thought that is so not true. Bless your heart. That's not been my experience. No, what he has learned to do is become a really good fall bear hunter. That's what it is. Oh. Does it make sense? So he he doesn't know how to take that same animal and put him in the spring and hunt them effectively because they do move differently to the topography. So they need to change a little bit in how they're approaching that animal in the environment. Spring hunting is always easier. It just is. They're on the move, they're in the opens more. The fall, they are so dispersed, even when they're on a specific food source, like they'll congregate on a huckleberry field. It's a place we used to hunt many years ago. We packed in with the horses, it's about 10 miles in. And it was just massive huckleberry fields. And bear after bear after bear would come through there. But it's luck of the draw for that kind of thing. You don't know which bear you're gonna get. And I didn't like it because what if it was a sow with cubs and you have to watch? And these huckleberry plants are like super tall, right? So you can't necessarily see everything that's happening. And that's why I started changing how I approached the fall. For I want to make sure just for my own self, because I will have anxiety the whole time otherwise, that there's no sow with cubs in this area that I'm hunting. And then I just I take that totally out of the picture and I don't have to worry about it. And when that bear comes in, I know that bear is the one I'm looking for, and it's gonna be a bear that's legal to take, and I don't have to worry about making an error and judgment in that.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Is there a difference in if you were to do any calling between spring and fall?

SPEAKER_02 39:54

I think both are good. Spring seems to be way more effective, especially once the calves are dropping. Oh my gosh, they're so cute. We saw so many of those this year. Oh, they're just adorable. I want to pick them up. But you know, mama might have something to say about them. But yeah, so I like to go to those spots. So it depends on how late your tag runs, too. Like at Idaho, like I said, some of them it's through June 15th. So you have a great chance of having calves dropping on the ground. And those cows will come back to the same places to give birth, right? That's their birthing area. So you can go sit in there and you can call and you'll get good response on bears coming in because the bears know. So mama bear teaches baby bear, this is where the food source is, and they'll go back to those same places that the cows are having their calves every year.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

So very, very cool.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

What about a real quick question I got here? So we're we're west of the Cascades, and we've talked a little bit about hyperphasia and stuff. I want to kind of delve into the hibernation side of it real quick. Do they do a true hibernation on this side versus east of the Cascades?

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Because we don't get that cold, harsh winter, like technically, it depends on which paper you read and which biologist you talk to. They will use the word hibernation, but it's not the definition of hibernation that like a squirrel does, right? Um where they're out 100%. A bear can wake up, so they consider it more of a, and I'm gonna say it wrong, tuper, I believe it's how you say that, but it's a semi-waking state. So they they can come fully to if it warms up enough. That's the bear's where it's really cold, right? Having said that, there are places where it's just not cold enough and the food sources haven't decreased enough. So if their denning is based on food, meaning the food is lessened in the environment, which is why they they went to den to start with, right? This is a survival tactic. I don't have any food to go get. There's nothing to eat on the landscape, so I'm gonna go sleep until the food becomes available again. That's what they're doing. So if you're in a place where it's warmer and there's still food on the landscape, then that survival technique is not necessary. So they will reduce in activity, but they won't go to sleep. So there's a lot of of that kind of thing. But the actual timing on that is is different all across even in this state. You read papers and in the different sections in this state, it's all different, which is fascinating to me because I like to have a I like to have a box. That's just the way my mind, my mind works. I want a box, I want to hear that okay, April 15th, every year the bears are up. November 1, they're in bed. That's too early, but I'm just saying, you know, like there would be a specific date that would go.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

I could go for November 1 because that's where we start our, you know, we really crack down on the blacktail hunting, is is the end of October through December. And and we struggle, and and Aaron can vouch for this. I mean, when we got guys that that do bait, or you talk to guys that do bait and stuff, and it's a warm, an El Nino kind of winter. You it's really difficult with the bears around for those guys. It's extremely difficult because they're always going to come in. And and you hit it the nail right on the head when you said the food source. Because they're baiting, that food source continues to get replenished, yeah, which keeps them up, which you know, yeah, is kind of a two-edged sword there.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

So they're probably just as mad as baiting ban as the hunters. It's like, how dare you, WDFW, take away my swords. I'm voting for someone different next time.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

That's funny. Yogi's got a petition going right now. My word.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

We just need to have some mail-in ballots sent to our local. Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_05 43:21

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yeah, I don't support the right for bears to vote. So I'm just gonna put it out there right now.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

That's interesting. I mean, because I I I think I've always heard that it's been like not a true hibernation. They go down for a couple weeks, get up for a couple two, three days, go back down for another couple, two, three weeks, and and kind of doing that throughout the winter.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

It could be in certain regions, especially more west side here, but you start talking like northern Canada, they're down, they're not coming back up. Like they're you know, I mean, there's nothing to support them in the habitat. It's not warm enough, there's too much snow. It's just not it's not a good survival mechanism. So the best thing they can do is go to sleep for a while, and when they wake up, whoa, the green grass is growing, right? And it's time to eat. So that's kind of how that that whole thing is. But but yeah, it's very true. You'll you'll hear people say that. I've talked to them at the shows many times about how the bears aren't necessarily sleeping. And I say, Yeah, I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Okay, so I'm gonna wrap us up there. Thank you for giving us more information on bears.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Always fun. We you know what we didn't mention, I'm sorry, Aaron, but we didn't mention that Heather was at Hunter's Gathering this year doing her bear stuff, then the field work, her

Hunters Gathering Highlights And Subscribe Ask

SPEAKER_01 44:30

and John, and it was the most talked about and most commented on session that we had this year. Everybody absolutely loved it. They said they could have listened. I had one guy said Heather could have gone on another seven hours and it wouldn't have been any, he'd have loved it. So thank you for doing that for absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

You're back next year, yes, sir. We have Trent's back next year, Alex is back with Turkey. We have Cody Sanchez who's gonna teach us about coyote and bobcat. Nice, we're working on some others. John Nicholson will be there to talk about trail cameras and optimizing those. Tom Ryle, if you want to learn how to call and rattle in a black tail buck, Tom Ryle will be there. Sweet. We're gonna have a lot of different groups there, and we're still working on adding to the electives that we have. It's gonna be even more than it was last year. So definitely highly encourage everybody to get signed up. Get signed up for that because it's gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

A great resource for those who are attending as students, and it's also a great resource for those who are coming as instructors, because even though I may not be a blacktail hunter, I can take the information that Dave is presenting and I will take portions of that and look at it and say, okay, I'm looking at the bears with a new set of eyes and a new thought processes that I can put into the environment and come at them a little bit different way, just taking some of those same thoughts in. So I think it's a great, a great time for everyone in that regard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Yeah. And it's just a lot of fun. Yeah, it is a lot of fun. And you will not go home hungry.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

No, definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

That is a guaranteed. So thanks for jumping on with us. This has been great. I know, yeah, our listeners are going to be happy to get some more fair information right before season. So if you could go on, like, subscribe, follow, share, heart, do all those things your platform asked for. Really appreciate that. And we will talk to you next week.