The Great Commission Part 1 w/ Pastor Dwayne Cornelius

What does the Great Commission actually mean for your daily life? This week, Steve and Johnny sit down with Pastor Dwayne Cornelius from New Life UPC in Smithville, TN. In Part 1 of this powerful conversation, we break down God’s mandate for every single Christian: to go and make disciples. Whether you are a new believer or have been walking with God for decades, this episode will challenge and equip you for your purpose. Listen in, hit subscribe, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hello everyone, I'm your host, Steve Lorne, and welcome to another episode of the Middle of the Fire Podcast, a show where we strive to walk in righteousness together through faith, scripture, personal testimonies, and the awesome power of Jesus Christ. Be sure to like and share the show. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook and whatever platform you're listening on. Click the link in the description to share your testimony, praise reports, prayer requests, or to tell us how we are doing. The show starts now. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Middle of the Fire podcast. I am Steve, and today I have my good friend Johnny Garcia as my co-host. Say hey, Johnny.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Hey, Johnny.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

There you go. And we also got as our tertiary host. The great Pastor Dwayne Cornelius. Good to have you, Pastor.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Good to be here, guys. Good to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

All right. So today we're going to be talking about the Great Commission, Matthew 28, chapter 19. And uh, you know, paraphrasing here, go out in the world, make disciples, and uh baptize in the name of the Lord. So uh, and I figured who better to have talking about this subject than a missionary and the global missions director over the district of Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

So I mean that qualifies me for uh discounted coffee, maybe, but that's what other qualifying statement do you need?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Let's go. So I'm gonna ask you guys a couple questions here, and we're just gonna bounce off of each other, okay? So question number one, and whoever wants to go, just jump on in there. The Great Commission, is it an individual responsibility or a corporate one? Because it seems like uh there's there might be some people who think that it's up to the I don't know, the church building to speak for itself, or it's just up to the leadership of the church to get the message out there and they think it's okay to sit on their hands. What do you guys think on that?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Well, I think probably the best way to answer that is you need to find out what it means, what is commission. Um, we're not dealing in a business sense where it's money made off a product sold. Right. Uh so you have to you have to define what it is because there's many different uh definitions to uh commission. But one probably that we would use in this aspect is that a commission refers to a group of people officially authorized to perform specific duties. Uh if you take it from that definition, then this commission that we have been given, and of course, when you read the scripture uh of that commission in 28 and 19, he says, Go ye therefore, which that and of itself uh gives you what that commission really is. It's to go. And we've been given an authority to go. So by definition, uh it's not for one person, it's for everybody and anybody. So that that would be the answer, I guess, to that question. Sure. Um if you're using it in that capacity, which is really the only capacity that commission works uh in this aspect would be referring to a group of people officially authorized to perform specific duties.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

He was talking to the entire group of sure disciples when he said that, so that does make sense. What do you think, Johnny?

SPEAKER_02 3:57

U I I agree. I'd say that I I agree with with the answer that Pastor gave us. Um you know, you mentioned it, the the group that was there, and it was they were sent to go and to do what he had ordered them to do, and we see that. We see it that they go and do what he said, and so we see that um, you know, it was individually, each person had to make their own decision. So we see everybody split off into different areas, we're all different groups, they're focusing on different things, and then you get to the seven that were chosen, and you know, they're given their task and they're sent to do what they're sent to do to serve the church, right? Those needs. And so, you know, there there is that idea that it must be done from that building, from that church. And I guess as you bounce from different groups or different uh areas within Christianity, different denominations, it's different. It's different about who really is getting the permission to go to a certain level. But I think in every group you have those individuals that are still, hey, I can at least share the gospel, I can at least invite someone to church. I can't so I guess you kind of get into well, what? Because while you do have him saying preach and teach and baptize, you know, there's there are those who don't let any just anybody baptize. And so that's where you kind of get in into that, if into that breakdown of, you know, it's this is what it fits, this is what it is, and then what has been added on top of it. You know, I shared a story the other day. Um, there was a time years ago in Bangladesh where there were so many people to be baptized, uh, you know, they had they were baptizing, and then eventually someone just had to keep going. Yeah, it was in the hundreds, and so like you know, in that situation, we saw it that they were able to, but it can be different in every other areas of the world.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

See, I've always taken that as, and uh well, I've always taken it as it is our individual responsibility to act on that, share your testimony to reach as many people as you possibly can. Especially, you know, Pastor, you say it all the time at church. There's there's people that I'm gonna be able to reach that you would never be able to reach, my friends, family, something like that, you have no ties to. Um, you know, Johnny, same with you. There's other people that I can't speak Spanish.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

So I can't reach I I would be a terrible asset in that regard. So there's there's always uh your individual responsibilities, but as we come together to make the body of Christ, then we have those abilities that uh reach out into the congregation to baptize, to work in the altar, to preach, to pastor, you know, the different offices that God gave.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Sure. You you know, you also we we give a definition of what the official group would be and how it refers to that group of people authorized, but from an of from an authority standpoint, uh it can also mean that it is a formal written warrant or certificate granting power to perform certain acts. So again, go back to the message does not change. What was being told to do, the commission, if you will, that was being given doesn't change. However, the method of how we deliver that commission um absolutely can change. And it changes with uh culture, it changes with um surroundings, the things that are going on, societal norms, the things that may be happening around you. Um so the the the method may change. I I grew up in Pentecost, been in it my whole life, 54 years old. It's not the same that it was when I was in Sunday school. No, by any means is it that way. Uh, we're dealing with a different culture, we're dealing with different things, but the message didn't change. The commission hasn't changed from the day he said it.

SPEAKER_05 8:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

That hasn't changed. How we do that um commission has changed, and the message never does. And so uh, yes, as an individual, and yes, I've said the same thing. You know, you can't, there's gonna be people you are gonna reach that I'm not ever gonna have an opportunity to. If the Great Commission, as we refer to it, is held to just me as a pastor, then we're limiting the ability of the message to go forth.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

And so it is the requirement of all of us. You've heard me say on plenty of occasions, we're all ministers in our own right. Yeah, it doesn't matter what it is. And so this obviously will lead into um other questions, I'm sure, about discipleship, but it's part of what we do and how we give that message. And ultimately, the Great Commission, um, outside of the directive of go ye therefore baptizing, uh, it also is our message of what God has done for us. Yes. And the testimony of how God has changed my life. Right. Um, that is really the the that comes with the authority of this great commission. God said, Go. Yeah. Go tell them, go do. Um, it's an action verb, an action word. It's not uh something that we sit back on and just say, Well, I've had this experience and I'm done. Um, that doesn't fulfill that commission.

unknown 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Is it something in you guys that is innate to do what you do, or is it just is it strictly because God says it? Is it something that you were born with?

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Uh as far as the Great Commission, I think we're all born with the uh innate nature to share our experiences.

SPEAKER_05 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Uh, whatever those experiences may be, take take spiritual out of it or church out of it for that matter. Yeah. Uh if you have a great time at a trip, I just had a friend recently. Um, I don't want to discredit any other state or city, but they were going to visit a certain city. And uh I said, Well, I've been there. You may not want to, you know, spend your time there. Here's another option. Um, is that similar? I'm I'm saying the same thing. Oddly enough, they called back and said, Yeah, you're right. We're not going to go there again. But I it was a shared experience. And so I'm sharing an experience with someone uh of what I have had happen in my own life or what I've seen happen in my own life. And so therefore, that is a form of that same thing. And so is it innate in our nature? I think so. Um, just in sharing whatever experiences we have. And so when it steps into the spirit realm and the spirit world and what God has done for us and how we've seen change in our lives, it's a natural thing to want to share that with somebody. It should be, let me change that. Should be a natural thing to want to share with somebody.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

True. Yeah, we'll talk about the great meal that we had. We'll talk about an awesome movie that we saw. Oh, you went to the game last night, it was awesome. But when it comes to sharing the goodness of God, it seems that people like to seem to shy away from that a little bit more. What do you think on that, Johnny?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

I think that we are just it might be a sense, eh, it's a lot of things, but one thing that I like to lean to is that maybe that we're just not aware. I think when the miracle happens, because it blows us away. And we're used to miracle signs and wonders here, Smith. Yeah, absolutely. We're used to it. And so when it happens, you just see the reaction. But I think we do not sometimes we are not walking in a way that would allows us to see and to take time and to look at the goodness of God that is happening in our lives on a daily basis, and so then we don't feel that need to let it pour out. Now, I might be wrong here, but that's just how I feel personally.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

And I guess you think it could be just come what's the word that I'm looking for? It's almost like take it for granted.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yeah, I think it I think it's in a way, in a way, you know become used to it. Yeah, yeah. You know, and in uh the episode that just released yesterday for the podcast, uh, it brings me back where we were sitting in a barber barber shop getting a haircut there in Bangladesh. And Brother Corbin just looks over, starts talking to the guy who's cutting his hair, and he asks him, Do you have a church where you're at? And he says, You know, well, then we just did this and then he's and he looks at me, he says, There you go. You come here once a month, now continue it. And I, you know, I was like, Whoa, you know, he was he found a way to take the Great Commission and weave it into his life with his experiences. And so, uh, but sometimes we don't do that. We don't have now when we're in need, when we lack provisions, when we are going through struggles, then it's like, okay, let's let me hit, let me go back to what I knew pulled me out the last time. Let me go to my prayer room, or let me set up an extra time of fasting, or let me go through my scriptures and find a verse that I can pray over and apply to my life. And so um, I just think it it might be that we're not because when it's flowing, when good things are flowing, you should want to share it. Like the same thing. If if the Titans win the Super Bowl, you're gonna tell everybody, right? I mean, it's just good, especially those who are not Titan fans. Well, when God does something in my life, I should want to tell those who are not Jesus fans and do not have the same experiences that we have. And so I think out of a place of understanding and being more aware flows the idea. Um, because shortly Jesus tells them, okay, you guys need to wait. So they haven't been filled with the Holy Ghost yet. So, as Pastor said, to for it to be a spiritual thing, it's not even there yet. He says, You wait and you pray, and then they were filled with the Holy Ghost, and then they went out. And so if you're waiting for something, you know, to change, um, you have the ability to do that now.

unknown 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I think that the um uh as we dive into this a little bit more, I think our hesitation to share, I guess maybe is what we're saying, you know, as an experience when it comes to the spiritual things, I think is from a lack of knowledge. Um, and we feel uh awkward or unprepared to be able to answer a question if we do talk to somebody about it. Yeah, sure. Um, because we study, you know, the latest stats for the ball teams or for, you know, whatever motor of an engine that we're playing with or guns that we're messing with, whatever. We study the specs and the aspects of that so much more so that we feel knowledgeable about it to share and talk about. But if we don't spend time uh studying the word and understanding what we have, now that doesn't stop you from sharing, right? But the experience is what's important. But somebody's gonna ask you a question. And I think some of the times the reason we don't share the experience as um easily as maybe we do other things is based on the fact of what if they ask me a question I can't answer, right? Uh and so when when that happens, it causes that resistance to want to say anything because what if I can't answer the question? Uh, and then I look foolish because I can't answer the question about an experience that I had. But but ultimately you you go back to when you can't answer those questions, you go back to the experience. Yeah, yeah, right? What did the one man say? He said, whether he's a sinner or not, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know anything about him, I don't know if he's a sinner, I don't know if he lives a good life, I don't know if he's a good man, bad man, I don't know who he is. All I know is this I was blind now I see and now I see. Yeah, that's all I can tell you. And so if we get to the point where we're okay with the uncomfortableness of maybe not having the knowledge, but having the experience, you begin to share much more.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

And I think it's okay to say, I don't know. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Absolutely. For the Bible school students, we tell them all the time. I tell them, I say, guys, I'm 33 years old. There are teachers here that are much older than me. They got better degrees than me. It just is what it is. Like I understand my place. And so I'm gonna give you three answers. Yes, I don't know. Let's find out together. Right. I say, you give me enough time, I can find out. And I think um nowadays we we don't want to risk that. Let's I don't know. When many times the opportunity to continue in trying to evangelize to somebody or trying to continue in conversation, it ends because we feel like we've lost because we don't know. Well, you're gonna encounter, you're gonna encounter people that just know more than you, sure, know more about what they know. And I think that it you need to be okay with as you're building the conversation, and if it's going that direction, you we can build a conversation or an interaction with the idea in mind that hey, I just was baptized two weeks ago, but I just have to tell somebody. I don't have all the answers, but please come. And then the conversation at the already knows, hey, this guy is fresh, but he's sharing his experience. Whereas we go and say, you know, you need to do this, you need to come get your life and do this, and then they ask us a question we don't know, then it just feels like embarrassment because of our posture, the way we presented it, sure, you know, will uh will will affect when it's going good or when it's going bad. Absolutely. And uh many times we're quick to take the glory when it goes good. Um, but brother um Cunningham always shares that story of Billy Cole rebuking him. If you're if you're gonna prideful enough to take it, the responsibility when it goes bad, you're gonna take the glory when it goes good. And none of those belong to you. You did what you did, give God the glory, the seed was planted, it was watered, God will give the increase. Now move on.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Yeah, as as the uh great book, Crucial Conversations puts it. If you go into a situation acting like you know everything, you're not gonna know what to do whenever you don't.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Right, sure. Sister C and I have this conversation at times. Um, you know, when we we come across these situations, as I was talking earlier before we got started, uh, you know, with where somebody bases themselves on a doctrinal stance, uh, she said, you know, we have to understand that they know what they know as strongly as we know what we know.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

And so that's why I'm never interested in a debate. I I I'm not um uh when I say debate, I mean an argument. Sure. Uh, if we want to open up the book and let's let's use that as a source, yeah, have a discussion. Have a discussion about it, I'm open to that. But for sake of argument, I I'm not interested because it's hard to turn somebody. We can go back to crucial conversations. It's hard to turn somebody who is absolutely sold that their way is right and that there is no other way. Uh, and so at that point you're you're banging your head against the wall and wasting your time, their time, and you know, maybe God's time on somebody else. Totally. So when it comes to that, and and try to steer back to uh the Great Commission, because we can run on all kinds of rabbit trails here, but uh when you steer back to it, and what we have been called to do simply is to go and to do, go and tell, um, go and do these things. And we've been given authority to do so. Yeah. As long as we use the scripture, we go by what he said to do. Again, he was talking to his disciples, uh, and so it's very easy to say, well, what did they do? Well, let's go to the book of Acts, which is the actions of the apostles and see what they did. What did they do with what he told them to do? And uh, you know, you get into uh believe it's Mark 24, 45. I don't want to misquote it, but I think it's Mark 24, 45 where he said he opened to their understanding that they might be able to understand the scriptures. That's the only people he ever did that to. He hasn't opened the understanding of anybody else uh that's recorded or documented, right? We get revelation, we get eye-opening things, but it all is what's already down in scripture. And so when the disciples were sent, when they were commissioned to go, uh it was under the understanding of what he had already taught them and told them. And so they went out and did what they had seen and what they knew.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

So going back to what Matthew 28, 19 says, go go make disciples. What exactly does that mean to you guys?

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Johnny, you get to take the lead this time. So what does it mean?

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah. What does it mean to make disciples? I think that Jesus laid it out to the apostles, and I think within the book of Acts we find and then even in the epistles, we find them actively discipling, people taking them. You know, you have the two first and second Timothy, where you see Paul instructing him. And so, you know, I had this conversation the other day where we look into how much time Jesus spent with his disciples. I don't have the numbers before me, but when you take those three, three and a half years that he was ministering, and you look at the amount of time he would have spent, you see that they are walking with him. Um, you know, they are walking with him in in so many different things. And of course, the gos the gospels only give us insight into what is said, but we know that you know, three years is a long time. In three years, you have lots of shared experiences. You have mornings, you have noontimes, you have moments of stress, moments of victories, late nights. You have him ministering with those who people would be frown, frowning at him, interacting with them. You have him saying and doing stuff that are upsetting. So you see, you get to experience all this. And so when you know, when I when I'm looking at disciples, I but it's what? It's got to be walking with somebody while trying to share or impart um what you are trying to share and impart in this case and the experience. Jesus is walking with them and he's teaching them parables and he's showing them stuff so that they can learn what the kingdom of heaven is, what is like, what is what has come, what has come to humanity, what is being done, why it's being done. You know, you take a look at the whole Jesus sends them out to cast out devils, and they come back and they're like, Yeah, look at even the devils are submitted to us. And then there comes to a point where they come back and they say, you know, we couldn't do it. And it had nothing to do with them. A lot of times we we look at that and we say, Oh, he says it least come out by prayer and fasting. And we always try to put it on the apostles or the disciples. We try to say, Okay, that's you know, that's they're lacking. He's telling this because they didn't fast or pray enough. When in reality, um you have to look at who he's talking to within the context of those that group of scriptures, those passages, and you realize he goes into an area and it's just there's not enough faith. Yeah, and so he tells them, he says, You need to pray and fast because you've walked into it with a level of faith that is not in that's in that room in that crowd that's not meeting where you guys are at. So your prayer and fasting allows you to be connected in the spirit, whereas you're gonna walk into some places that are this low. I've we've ministered in in places where we have lots of people come in, they get healed, yeah, and then one person comes in and just you can they came in because someone told them and we pray for them, and nothing happens, and you feel the faith just drop in the room, yeah. Yeah, and so I usually do two or three times prayer. I said, Okay, I'm gonna pray again, because sometimes it takes two times, sometimes it takes one. And I remember that one instance, it just wasn't happening. So I had to find a way, and then I had to raise the faith because even though we had 10 people get healed, whatever, before that one person, the faith dropped. And so the discipling Jesus does with them allows them to realize where you're walking, where you're ministering, um, and then being prepared where you're going. And you know, when we are discipling people, you know, it's preparing them for where they're going, where they're at, and where they're going.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Well, back on what you're talking about with people, you know, praying for uh healings. You guys have heard me say, I've always said it only requires three things. It requires a need. You know, there has to obviously be a need uh for God to answer. The second part is it requires his name, because that's what does the work. Right. And the third thing is faith. And we can we can build faith all around them, but it's the individual who's being healed's faith.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

I can't transition that, I can't transfer that, I can't. And so uh a lot of times it's on their faith of what God can do. It doesn't change what God has done or change his ability by any means. He can do what he wants to, but it's their faith. And every time you've seen the situations in the Bible where miracles were performed, he even made statements like, I've not seen faith this great, right, from that individual. And so that's how that's that's part of that that process. And so as we lead into uh discipleship from this great commission, I uh you know, I'll go back and I just kind of keep reading the scripture, and uh, you know, we we have this uh opportunity in Matthew 28. Jesus came to him, he spake, he said that all power given unto me in heaven and earth. Um, we we we understand that, you know, from a Godhead perspective, we understand what that means. But then it goes into go ye therefore. So there's the first process of that.

SPEAKER_05 25:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Go ye. He didn't say go just one individual, it was it was generalized to everybody. So all of us are to go, right? He said, Go ye therefore and teach all nations. Well, that's going to emphasize why we support missions, right? Exactly. Why do we support things outside of here? Because it's for all nations. And then he says, baptizing them, and we get into that, but then he gets into verse 20 and he says, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded, right? So we move from the great commission to the great commandment. What I have commanded you, and lo, I'm with you always, even until the end of the world. And so, what is that command? What has he done? Well, then we go back to uh what the scripture says when we talk about uh the great commandment, Mark 12, verse 29, as I mentioned earlier. You know, he repeats Deuteronomy 6 and 4 when he says, Hero Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord. Well, that right there answers part of that question. And then he says, Love the Lord your God. And then he says, Love others. This is the first and great, the second is like unto it, and then he says, and hang all the laws of the prophets on these two things.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So what does that mean? That transitions us into that great uh commandment, which is ultimately fulfilling of the commission. Brother Stan Gleason, um, you guys are familiar with, did a book called Follow the Lead, right? And Paul said to the Corinthians, he said, Follow me as I follow Christ. Right. And so the discipleship process is simply me following him and others following me. Um you've heard me say before, in order to lead somebody, all you got to do is be a step ahead of them. Uh I may not know everything there is to know about this walk, I may not know everything there is to know about the Bible, but what I do know, I'm willing to share. And that's good. And I want you to walk with me in this process. I believe uh ultimately, in my, you know, in my humble opinion, you know, it may not get you a discount at McDonald's for coffee, but my opinion is just simply this discipleship is walking a journey with somebody through life. And it is not something that happens in one class. We can't teach this in one class, we can't disciple this in one weekend or one conference or one uh series. We can't, that doesn't how that happens. Yeah, it happens through a process of walking. Jesus walked with his disciples before he commissioned them to do those things. They watched and saw and uh saw the things that he did, and then they followed and then and went and repeated it, right? Because he said, The things that I've done, you're gonna do better than that. Right, right, right. So then that leads into his discipleship creating somebody that can do even more than what I've done. Um it's it's walking that journey with them. Greater things than these shall ye do. Right. And so ultimately, um loving God and loving people, if you'll do those things and you'll love people regardless of their doctrinal stance, regardless of uh their background, where they come from, if you just love people, because we could go, you know, into love and how how it overcomes all and it it supersedes all. And so anything that you do, if you do it with love, uh, we'll go back to crucial conversations. You always lead with heart, right? You lead with those things. And so if you'll do it from that angle and from that aspect, I believe that is the core of what discipleship is all about. Um, it's loving people and guiding them through a journey. Go through their ups and downs with them. Think back on somebody. I almost look at it as almost like mentoring, but think back on somebody who every every time you had a situation who was there. Um, how did they guide you through that? It was a discipleship. It doesn't matter how long we're in this, yeah. It doesn't matter how long we're in this walk. You you don't hit a magic number and go, okay, cool, we've arrived, right? And so now we we no longer have to be disciples. They were always called disciples, right? Right. And so they were always doing this process. And so that is part of what we do. That is part of who the church is, that's part of every individual, and that's why there is no there is no title that you have to ascend to to be able to be a disciple maker. Right. Everybody's a disciple maker.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Hey everybody, did you like the show? If so, please remember to share and like middle of the fire podcast wherever you are listening. But even if you didn't like the show, thanks for listening anyways. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook and be on the lookout for posts on other platforms as well. And as always, may God really bless you, and I'll see you on the next episode.