Breast Cancer: Advocacy and Complementary Medicine

In this heartfelt episode of Rebel Health Collective, I welcome breast cancer survivor and advocate Claudia De Pasquale, who shares her powerful journey from diagnosis to healing and beyond. As a mother of three, Claudia faced the shock of a cancer diagnosis while balancing family life and the unexpected challenges of medical treatment. Determined to take control of her health, she embraced complementary therapies, nutrition, and lifestyle changes to manage the side effects of chemotherapy and support her long-term wellness.

Claudia opens up about her journey to find a healthcare team that aligned with her values and how self-advocacy became critical to her recovery. Through an integrative approach, she endured treatment with fewer side effects, finding a new perspective on whole-person healing. With a mission to empower others facing similar journeys, Claudia started her blog, My Cancer Diaries, as a resource for breast cancer patients, caregivers, and anyone interested in holistic health.

Join us as we discuss self-advocacy, the power of community, and the practical strategies that helped Claudia reclaim her health. This episode is packed with insights on building resilience, navigating health challenges, and combining traditional medicine with complementary therapies. Whether you're facing a health issue, supporting a loved one, or just exploring a more holistic approach to wellness, Claudia’s story offers inspiration and valuable lessons for us all.

Episode Highlights:

• Facing a Breast Cancer Diagnosis: Claudia recounts the shock of her diagnosis and the emotional impact it had, especially as a mother caring for young children.
• Finding the Right Healthcare Team: Claudia shares how she learned to seek out doctors who aligned with her values and approach to healing, and how important it is to get second and third opinions.
• Integrating Complementary Treatments: From juicing and dietary changes to meditation and hypnotherapy, Claudia details how these holistic practices helped her manage side effects and improve her overall well-being during chemotherapy.
• Empowering Through Self-Advocacy: We discuss the critical role of self-advocacy in navigating complex healthcare decisions. Claudia shares her own experiences with researching treatments, asking questions, and advocating for herself in the healthcare system.
• Building a Supportive Community: Claudia explains how her blog, My Cancer Diaries, has become a space for sharing insights and connecting with others on similar journeys. She also provides practical tips for supporting loved ones through their own health challenges.

Connect with Claudia:

• Blog: My Cancer Diaries
• Instagram: @my_cancerdiaries

Connect with Rebel Health Collective:

• Facebook: Rebel Health Collective
• Instagram: @rebelhealthcollective

**Disclaimer: Please remember that the topics and information discussed in this podcast are for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult with your healthcare provider or medical professional before making any changes to your health regimen or implementing any new treatments. Your health journey is unique, and it’s important to work with your trusted healthcare team to determine what’s best for you.**

Transcript

Josh Bostick (00:02.51)
Well hey Claudia, thanks so much for joining us today. I know you have a really interesting story and I'm really excited to be able to record it and get it out to others. You're one of those that has gone through kind of the traditional medical route in solving one of your health issues, but you've taken it a step further and done some complimentary treatments, which I think is really interesting. And when we first spoke, something that I had never heard about.

I'm really excited to hear your journey and some of the self advocacy and different tools that you used to better yourself and better the situation you were in. So if you want to go ahead and give an introduction to yourself and start digging into your story, that'd be great.

Claudia De Pasquale (00:49.013)
Yeah, hi, hi Josh. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast today. So I'm I'm going a little bit back like who I was actually before I was diagnosed with breast cancer. So I was the typical mother of three young kids and just, know, scheduling all their activities and managing our household. I was on a parental leave at that time.

And my youngest, was three and then I have two daughters who are like five and seven. And my youngest just, he just started preschool. And that's when I thought, well, this is a good time. I'm going back to work. And I can also say I considered myself actually the picture of health, you know, my diet was really good. I still kept exercising. I didn't make myself a priority. However,

And I think every single mother with young kids, especially at a certain point when I had like three on the five, you know, it's really hard to make yourself a priority. but then, you know, things came very different. I, went in for a regular health checkup.

at my OBGYN and she did also a breast exam. During our breast exam, she discovered two lumps and she was like, well, are you aware about these two lumps? And I said, well, I just went in for a mammogram. I was my first mammogram at age 40 and that one was completely clear. So I was not too worried about.

Josh Bostick (02:27.084)
And how long ago was that mammogram? Was it pretty recently or?

Claudia De Pasquale (02:34.657)
Correct. So that mammogram before that checkup was a little bit over a year ago. It was my very first one. And I did it, you know, with the suggested age or even on the younger side, it was actually optional at that time to get your first mammogram at 40, which I did. And it was clear. The only thing that that mammogram said at that time was like that I had very dense.

Breast tissue, I mean, there's another story to that. I didn't really know what to do with that information and neither what it meant. I didn't know that it meant that you're at higher risk actually of developing breast cancer and it's harder for the radiologists to spot tumors, which actually turned out just to be the case.

When I went in for that checkup, she was like, okay, you need to go to get a mammogram again. And I did, and they wanted to keep me there for a biopsy and an ultrasound. And even a radiologist at that time said, well, you're still young and 95 % of the cases, this should be just fine. And I kind of like, okay, let's just.

get this over. Of course, I was nervous about getting the biopsy and everything, but I kind of went home and thought, okay, probably this is going to be turning just all right. It was not until I got that phone call and I remember that phone call like it was yesterday where, you know, the radiologist called me and he was like, I'm so sorry, Mr. Pasquale, but I have to inform you, have invasive lobular carcinoma.

And that's when my world was pretty much turned upside down. Not just my world, but everybody else in my family. Of course, it was a huge shock to us. I didn't really know what to expect. And of course, one of my things was like, man, I have three kids. I don't have any immediate family in town.

Claudia De Pasquale (04:44.649)
I don't have time for cancer. just don't. But there was just like, you're a parent, parenting is hard. And now we're adding this to the list. But I felt like I just didn't have any choice. I had to get through this. I had to get through this for my kids. And things moved very fast from that moment on.

I was scheduled for to meet with my breast surgeon and you know, one month later I already had my mastectomy.

Josh Bostick (05:26.12)
And from getting that diagnosis and that phone call, did you have any period of like a, a poor me for a better lack of words or, know, like a kind of down, downbeaten and distraught, or was it just from, from the get go a I'm going to kick cancer's ass and I'm going to take this head on and get through it. And I'm going to come out on top.

Claudia De Pasquale (05:56.479)
Yeah, that's a very good question. So when I did get that phone call, I thought really, you know, I looked at my kids and I was like, I cried for a week straight. I thought like, I'm going to die. I'm not going to see my kids growing up. I was just in complete distress. And as a mother of young kids, it's that's, I was not even worried about me. I was worried about like my kids.

who's gonna take care of my kids and how can I get through treatment and taking care of them? But after crying one week straight, my youngest, he was only three at the time, he came up to me and he said, he touched my arm and he said, and looked at me and said, mama, I just, don't want you to cry anymore. Can you please stop crying? Please don't cry.

And that's when something changed in me. think my son and my other kids, of course too, but that was just very touching that moment. And I said, well, I can't keep going on like this. And that's when I started really changing. That doesn't mean that I didn't have any more sad moments, but it never really happened anymore that I just cried for weeks straight.

And I decided from that moment on that I'm gonna really kick cancer's ass and I'm gonna be, you know, I wanna show my kids how I can get through this challenge and how we get through this challenge, you know, through this health challenge together. And from then on, I started really like, you know,

calm myself down as well. yeah, and then when I met with the breast surgeon, I started also having like a lot of challenges in the beginning, like finding the right doctor and the right team.

Josh Bostick (08:04.638)
Yeah, what exactly were those challenges? Was it you were going in and just not connecting with the doctor or what was causing you to continue a search rather than just going into the first doctor and moving forward?

Claudia De Pasquale (08:21.087)
Yeah, so I was one of, I was 40 at the time In the meantime, going through this journey, you know, I, I learned also that a lot of, there's a lot of women even younger and they're getting younger being affected by breast cancer. Unfortunately, it's one in eight women that is going to be affected by this horrible disease. But

none in my friendship or in my circle actually, or that I directly knew that was this young that I knew locally had gone through this journey. So, you know, I was looking for recommendations for breast surgeons and the first time I met with my breast surgeon, I had so many questions. I wanted to know everything and I was in an HNO at that time.

which was great as long as I was really healthy. It was very well organized, everything at one place. But then, you know, I thought, well, if you have cancer, it's gonna be like, you know, they're gonna give you a little bit more time to ask your questions. it was like, she's like, she had like a stopwatch with her. It was like 45 minutes on the clock. And I had so much more that I just wanted to ask. And the ultimate thing that...

she told me at the end of this meeting was like, hey, I have two things in my toolbox. It's either a mastectomy and a lumpectomy. And you can imagine like what a distress this is for a patient. And I didn't even meet with my whole team, with my oncologists yet. So they just said, well, that's what we're discussing now and everything else later. And that's really when I started to dig myself into.

Josh Bostick (10:07.114)
Wow.

Claudia De Pasquale (10:11.251)
listening to podcasts, starting to read, you know, like researching things. Like I wanted to know from other women, how did they choose? How did they get through this journey? And, you know, further down the road, I also realized that you have to find a doctor that you're comfortable with, that aligns with your ideas. And that doctor in the stressing moment like that has to have

really good bed manners, bedside manners to which this doctor didn't have. I ended up firing her because I wanted to involve my husband to into discussion. Like, you know, once we were moving on, just like going a little bit, going a little bit back, I needed actually, I would have chosen to go with the lumpectomy road route at that time because I said, well, why do I have to go like more invasive if I can just.

have a lumpectomy and be fine. And at that time, I didn't even know, like she didn't properly explain what it meant choosing one or the other option. I knew that the overall survival would be the same going lumpectomy, but often if you go lumpectomy route, you need radiation as where you go to mastectomy route.

you know, often you are able to skip radiation if you don't have anything in the lymph nodes, which they discover later once they go in and actually do the surgery. You don't know that beforehand. And because I wanted to do a lumpectomy and my type of cancer is one of the not as common cancer, my cancer type doesn't always form a lump. And that's also important.

If other women are listening this cancer doesn't always form a lump. have lobular breast cancer and it can form kind of like spider-like structure. It can also just be a thickening or something. And that's why she wanted me to do a breast MRI. Once the results came out, it showed too much. It showed like, and that's often when you go into more detailed imaging, it showed too much.

Claudia De Pasquale (12:27.805)
It showed like nine suspicious enhancements that I have. And I thought, my God, this is even worse than what I thought it is. And based on that though, she was saying, well, you do need a mastectomy, but to get the results and the discussion, I wanted to add my husband to the phone call. And she was telling me, so we were scheduled to talk at 10 o'clock in the morning. She called at five, didn't even apologize.

And I said, can I add my husband to the phone call? And she says, I'm sorry, I'm really busy right now. And that's the point where I said, no, I'm going to add my husband to the phone call. And I fired that first breast surgeon. And that's when I luckily through a friend found was a doctor. I found another breast surgeon that I was much more comfortable with. And, you know, I was able to go into com. So that was like one of my first hurdles.

and I think really helpful was that at the end through friends and connection, I was able to find another survivor who had gone through a mastectomy because I was really scared too. And just getting these insights that was like super helpful for me.

Josh Bostick (13:44.996)
Yeah, and that's so important that people understand how much of a partnership it is with your health care team. mean, I think at least for me, when I before I started going through all my medical fun, you know, I thought that the care was standard across the board. You know, for every specialty you went into, see, they were kind of taught the same things, obviously, by different schools. But going from one doctor on one side of the road to another doctor on the other side of the road.

I didn't know how vastly different their care could be. And like you mentioned, how much they could be partnering with you and trying different things and communicating. And so for a lot of people, think it's they go in, you know, maybe they're referred by their primary care physician to somebody. They go in and see a doctor and they think, you know, I just needed to roll with them. I need to start this, get it over with. But partnership and feeling comfortable with whoever you're working with is such an important factor. And, you know, definitely

being able to include your partner and family because they're the ones that are going to be taking care of you and definitely responsible for supporting you. that's that's really huge. And I'm glad that that was a an eye opening moment for you. And you're like, no, this we're done here at this point. That's that's really cool.

Claudia De Pasquale (14:47.531)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Claudia De Pasquale (15:01.705)
Yes, yeah that was one of it and I realized also how important it is to at that point like how it is because there are differences across the board it is so important you know to get a second and a third opinion. As I said as we go as I explained as I went further down the road with my treatment that was even more true having like several opinions about you know about your treatment because

What I learned too, medicine is not black and white. There are gray zones. As I said, like find a team that aligns with your idea, but don't be afraid. In the beginning, I felt so bad about like questioning, getting a say. Everybody, especially when you are confronted with a, you know, with a disease like cancer, for example, everybody is getting second and third opinions.

Josh Bostick (15:57.828)
Yeah. I mean, as you know, much as we owe health care professionals for all that they do, we we don't owe them our business or our health or anything like that. You know, I faced something similar with my first endocrinologist. He was an older guy and was pretty dead set on his way of doing things. And for him, it was doing the multiple daily manual injections. He had like an insulin pin and you injected multiple times throughout the day. And

Claudia De Pasquale (16:11.455)
All right.

Josh Bostick (16:27.686)
I wanted an insulin pump because I thought it was going to make my quality of life better, make things easier. You know, I was forgetting my pins all the time because we just had our son. And, you know, for me, that's something that I wanted. It was technology out there that I thought would help my disease. And he just really wasn't a believer in him. So he wasn't prescribing him for his patients. And at that point, I was I was like, I need to find somebody else that's going to be aligned and up to date with the newer technology. And because that's where I was at, I wanted

be always upgrading and incorporating the newest things that are out there. So I totally agree. You've got to find someone that's on your level.

Claudia De Pasquale (17:02.24)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (17:06.847)
Yeah. And I think sometimes there's also like an account or something just similar like you where I had to have injections to boost my white blood cell count. So once I was done, I'm coming to that once I was done with my mastectomy, you know, the good news for me was that I didn't have anything in the lymph nodes, but then like my, was just like another, it was like another setback for me at that time.

And it was very emotional when I found out, wow, not only did I have to go because I thought I'm going to get the mastectomy and jump right back into my life. And I did need chemotherapy because my cancer, they do a complicated genomic test and it showed that my chance of recurrence was quite high, even though they told me in the very beginning I had the favorable cancer.

which was hormone receptor positive, which 80 % of the women are hormone receptor positive breast cancer. it's ERP or positive, HER2 negative. And of course I didn't find that there's anything like a favorable cancer at all. With the chemotherapy, as I started, I went in and I thought I'm healthy, I'm strong.

I should be fine with side effects and I was hit by every single side effect that I could get. I had four rounds to complete and I can, you know, of course, like the most common one, like I lost all my hair, I had lost my breast and then now I also started having rashes and mouth sores I couldn't swallow. was...

so fatigued that it's hard to explain if you haven't gone through, but I was even so tired at a certain point that it was too hard for me to lift the blanket off of me, even though I was so hot. And my husband said, well, you had your phone right next to you. Why didn't you call me? And I said, you know what? Even that was too much work. I didn't want to go to the bathroom. It was so bad.

Claudia De Pasquale (19:26.045)
with all the side effects and that's also very individual. That doesn't mean like everybody has all the side effects and it doesn't matter if you're healthy and strong. But that's when I went in and we started talking about a dose reduction of chemotherapy with my oncologist. And I knew that a dose reduction eventually could mean like that the chemo, you know, I wanted the best outcome in terms of overall survival.

And I said, well, isn't, aren't there other ways that maybe we can keep the dose, but we change all the things. Maybe I can, I said, maybe I can adjust my diet or whatever. So at that point I started also reading a lot about alternative therapies and also stories about other survivors, how they were able to cope with side effects. My oncologist, so I said my oncologist

to my oncologist, well, can I try, just give me one more try, I'm gonna try alternative things. And she says, well, let's try again. And I did, we started at that point, like tweaking my diet. I had a certain regimen that I was following going into chemotherapy. I started, you

sucking on the ice during the treatment, which would help with mouth sores. We started juicing. I started reading that beet juice can help athletes to improve their performance. So I was like, well, maybe it helps with my fatigue. so we did so many other things. And I started meditating just like enabled to.

managed to stress better that came with all of this. I went in into my second round and I had none of the side effects.

Josh Bostick (21:24.683)
And so well, just for the listeners, what and for me, honestly, because I don't I don't know that the normal time frame. So you did one round of chemo and you had just those the fatigue and symptoms that you listed out that came from just the first round. And then.

Claudia De Pasquale (21:36.044)
Mm-hmm.

Claudia De Pasquale (21:42.251)
Yes, I had fatigue, the diarrhea, I mean, you name it, like every single box that you could check, had diarrhea, had tummy cramps, you know, all of them, the whole list of side effects.

Josh Bostick (21:55.495)
and going into your second round because of those extreme side effects you guys were talking about potentially downing the dose, decided not to. And what was the timeframe from the first treatment to that second treatment where you incorporated a lot of these like, I guess, care technique changes?

Claudia De Pasquale (22:04.545)
Mm-hmm.

Claudia De Pasquale (22:16.193)
It was like every, I had every month I had a round. So it's kind of like it gave the body the time to recover. I, so we, within that month, much like I, changed all these things, but we changed it also as a family. So my husband was, you know, helping me because it's a lot of work to choose and to change the diet and

Josh Bostick (22:19.267)
Okay.

Claudia De Pasquale (22:44.979)
So it was about that timeframe. But of course it was, I was even surprised, like I didn't suffer any of the side effects and my energy actually, it was not like, wow, like great, but it was like a lot better. I actually was able to even like do some exercise and keep our routine steady with my family because I actually am able to, I'm being able to play with my kids because...

you know, my energy levels were better and it's expected actually that with each subsequent round of chemotherapy, it should be the contrary, your energy should go, you should get weaker and weaker for me. So that was not the case. So for me, just changing my lifestyle helped me to cope with all those side effects just so much better. When my oncologist asked me, so what did you do?

you know, she actually, she didn't even ask me really, she was just surprised and I was kind of wanting to push it like, okay, look, I did this. So I told her about, you know, a certain thing. She was just kind of like laughing a little bit and it, you know, I was with, very grateful for Western medicine and it does have its place. But when you are with a doctor that is not a integrative.

oncologists or you don't have any integrative care that adds traditional treatments or conventional treatments and adds alternative treatments to it. It's just like a doctor is usually a traditional doctor is usually not trained in that. And, you know, I was kind of like shrugged off a little bit like, yeah, whatever, you know, she didn't even, she was not even interested in really knowing.

what I did because I was like, hey, this could be important for your other patients.

Josh Bostick (24:46.275)
Right, this could be a protocol that you can give out to people and say, hey, if you want to do this, great, but here's some stuff that has worked for others. I mean, it's not a guarantee, but we've seen success with this, or at least something to keep an eye on. And for other people that were hit as hard as you were initially, if maybe it was the third round and people started having some of those symptoms, but if someone's getting hit in the very first round of chemo like you did, why not spread some of that information?

Claudia De Pasquale (24:56.213)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (25:01.984)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (25:15.411)
Exactly, but they don't so doctor is not going to do that. And that was a big shock. And I think that journey then at that point taught me like the importance of whole person healing, you know, to add these things because I started to do so well during the chemo after I added all these other things to it. And as I said, another

A lot of people always think about like exercise, diet, but it was also mindfulness techniques that I started to integrate. I was always on the go. I'm always looking for the next thing, you know, the typical over-scheduled and busy mom. So I started to meditate. I started to learn mindfulness techniques. I started doing hypnotherapy sessions as well.

things that I had never done and I truly believe that all these things they helped me, you know, just to be calmer, manage my stress that came with it. But it was the whole package, of course, you know, was tweaking my diet. was it was the that I kept exercising. It actually helped to keep my energy also steady. I mean, all of that.

And then embracing really the support of the community and my family, something that as a caregiver or a busy mom, it's just really hard because you're usually the one who helps others, right? You're always there for the needs of your kids. So now I was once in a role and it was really hard for me in the beginning to ask for help and to accept help.

So that's something else that I did. really started reaching out and, you know, I reached out to our school, to our neighbors, to the community and a lot of nonprofit organizations, family, friends. mean, all of that, it was the combination of all of that, that, you know, supported us through this journey. I think like it was the whole package that

Claudia De Pasquale (27:34.677)
helped us get through it. And all of that, think, when I once I was like realizing the importance of whole person healing, but also the, the power of advocating for yourself. think that's another big one that made me that led me to creating a blog, which is my cancer diaries, because

In the beginning, was kind of like I started writing down my story and taking picture and documenting everything, but it was more of a therapy to me. But I didn't realize that just writing everything down is not only healing to me, but this could actually help someone else to bring that out there. So that's why I became a breast cancer advocate. And I started to write my blog.

That's why I'm out here now talking about it because I think people need to hear this.

Josh Bostick (28:38.898)
I totally agree. I mean, that's the main point behind why I started this podcast. I felt like the three years of what I've gone through in my medical journey, I can share that whether, you know, it's the hospital, the doctors visits, the, you know, self advocacy, some of the things that I've learned through having to fight with insurance. I've dealt with things that have taken me a long time to figure out. And if I can spread that knowledge to someone and get them there,

and half the time, a fourth of the time, then that's the goal. And if it's three or four people, that's more than enough. So I appreciate you for doing that. And I know it's a big step in being vulnerable and putting a lot of information out there and really opening yourself up. But I'm sure that your work has helped people. And I really appreciate all that you continue to do. You know, it's enough to deal with cancer and beat it, but to continue with

kind of some toes in that world and a constant reminder that you had to go through that. I know that can be really hard.

Claudia De Pasquale (29:44.341)
Yeah, it is, as I said, it's hard, but it's also, it's very, how can I say, it's also, it brings a lot of, well, you gotta cut this out. I can't find the word. That's my, that's my, that's my, that's my menopause brain.

Josh Bostick (30:01.887)
No.

Josh Bostick (30:07.284)
No worries, no, I do that all the time.

Claudia De Pasquale (30:10.849)
Okay, good. Yeah. It brings a lot of...

Claudia De Pasquale (30:18.345)
Anyway, maybe we can cut it out.

Josh Bostick (30:18.784)
like fulfillment, mean, okay.

Claudia De Pasquale (30:22.369)
Thank you, brings a lot of fulfillment. That's what I wanted to say. Yeah, it brings a lot of fulfillment as well.

Josh Bostick (30:30.484)
Yeah, and just the few people that have reached out from the podcast, you know, from either starting with a type one diagnosis or just relating to others, people's stories. I mean, that's a huge motivation just to keep going and knowing that even a couple of people are getting something out of what you're putting out into the world. It means a lot. And, you know, it's it's not a Ponzi scheme type thing where you're trying to get rich. It's just truly.

trying to make the world a better place and help others. So thank you. And we will put your blog link in the show notes. So for anyone that is going through breast cancer, has a loved one, a family member, friend, whoever, we'll make sure that they have the resources to check that out.

Claudia De Pasquale (31:01.62)
Yes.

Claudia De Pasquale (31:17.653)
Yes, thank you. I really appreciate that. And I appreciate too what you're doing. I think because there's so many parallels between all the chronic illnesses. And I realized that too, going through treatment because I think you get more sensitive also hearing other people's even though you and I have a different chronic illness, there's so many similarities like realizing that doctors are not trained

when it comes to alternative or complementary treatments. They get so little like nutrition training. You can get a lot of pushback from doctors even when you come up with stuff like that. The realization that medicine is not black and white, finding the right team, know, get those second and third opinions.

that you have to advocate for yourself. You brought a nice example too with, you know, like about quality of life that you wanted to pump instead of the injection. So I faced something similar when I had to go in for chemo and get those shots for white blood cell count, for boosting my white blood cell counts. I had needle anxiety at that time because I was just being poked, you know,

So I had already been poked so many times and I was like a kid. I really was like almost like, of course I couldn't go in like that and crying, but that's exactly how I felt. I really didn't want to get poked again. the shots that the oncologist had ordered for me was like shots that I had to do five times in a row into my tummy without even ever showing me how that works.

So the only thing that I got from the nurse because I went in there for my infusion and they were telling me, they can tell you how to do it. And the nurse was just saying, but the diabetics, they do that all the time. I was like, I've never been a diabetic. I don't know. I don't want to self-inject myself in the tummy, you know? And I'm sure there's another way.

Claudia De Pasquale (33:29.213)
So I didn't appreciate that. And I started again, reading, like, is there another way? Of course, there was a shot that you could get, just get like once per cycle and you could get it at the injection clinic. And that's what, of course I had some, found out that that shot was a lot more expensive. So it's struggling with the insurance as well. Like, because, you know, the doctor is also going to recommend to you, like usually what's

what's more cost effective. That doesn't mean that's the best for your quality of life either. So I had to advocate and I said, well, I'm just not going to do this. I do want this. I know that there is another suggestion and I know that there was a protocol that you had to fail. I don't know. They had, you had to do it for so many days. And if it was not effective, then they were going to the one time shot.

And I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing my doctor. was like, I'm not going to do this. And I said, look, have a, have a, I have a, I have a meltdown here. Like I do need, I do want the one shot and only then after complaining so much, which you know, you have to do to deal with already a lot of going through journeys like this. This should just shouldn't be the case. And of course it also depends where you're treated. It's not always the same.

Josh Bostick (34:57.914)
Yeah, and unfortunately, I have found that to be the case in some of my stuff is there's like a standard of care or a standard option, I guess, that's put out there and that most of the public is OK with. But those other options that might be more costly, you know, might take longer, maybe more effort. Those aren't really talked about. I mean, they're not laid out in the options where it's like, you know, for maybe 90 percent of people.

Claudia De Pasquale (35:11.264)
Yeah.

Josh Bostick (35:26.886)
they'd be fine just self injecting. They would rather take the cheaper route. But for those like yourself that, you know, had some sort of a mental block or weren't able to, know, whatever the reason may be, that option just isn't initially put out there until you dig deep or press hard enough into the healthcare team. that's unfortunate for sure, because like with dieting and things like that, I mean, I use fasting a ton for my diabetes management.

Claudia De Pasquale (35:31.542)
Mm-hmm.

Claudia De Pasquale (35:36.822)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (35:44.256)
Yeah.

Yes.

Josh Bostick (35:54.76)
And it's gaining a ton of traction within the diabetic community, but it's not really an option that they talk about when you go into the doctor's office. And my endo is really good and supportive of it. And I've asked him like, why, why isn't this brought up initially as a tool? Because it's really becoming recognized as something that you can do. And his answer was that most people won't utilize it. They don't want to put in the effort. They want to just keep eating the foods that they're eating and

while I understand that, not at least touch it softly and see if someone's interested in it? Because I would have taken it up right away if I would have known it would have made managing my blood sugars easier. But just because most people wouldn't do it, it's not being talked about.

Claudia De Pasquale (36:37.387)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (36:43.211)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the other side of the story. So you have to advocate for yourself, but then like all the things you do, lifestyle changes, you touched it, they're not easy, they're hard. You have to put in the work. And like me personally, I think I did so well. You know, my treatment, I mean, it is over and over. So once I finished chemotherapy,

I, chemotherapy put me in medical menopause at age 41, which is really early. And I started hormone therapy, which keeps me in medical menopause because estrogen has been driving my cancer. So I'm still on maintenance to prevent recurrence. Those medications and being in menopause so early, of course, has a lot of side effects too.

But I had to change my lifestyle even further because being in medical menopause affects, it affects my heart, it affects my bone density. You know, like you can, you can gain weight, your muscle mass decreases faster, all of that. So I changed also the way I exercise. I used to do cardio now I lift weights. I changed my, I tweak my diet even further. It's like all these things. So there are.

big lifestyle changes and I incorporated them with my family. very supportive of that, of, it, but it is, it is work. They work, but you have to make it a priority and, which is not always easy. I understand that too. And usually doctors just want to prescribe you another pill, for another side effect, but then you.

you realize it's a chain. So you have one side effect, you get another pill and then that pill makes you another side effect and it just keeps going. And your medical, you know, like your medicine cabinet just keeps growing and growing and growing. And at the end you feel even more miserable. I mean, that's just like my experience. And that's why I'm always like, yeah, there is a place for drugs. There's a place for conventional treatment.

Claudia De Pasquale (39:03.061)
But there's also pride, why not try the natural route first, see if it works. There are, you know, my work for me doesn't work for you, but maybe you have to find your way. It requires effort. And if it doesn't work, then there is always still, yeah, you can, you can grab that pill. So that, that was my approach. And I think like I did really well with it and I coped well with all the side effects.

I gained a lot of my vitality back and I'm doing everything like, you know, I'm working out and, you know, I don't have any lasting side effects from my treatment either because I did a lot of the alternative things too. Like also I iced my hands to your own chemotherapy so to prevent neuropathy, but they were not very clear about that either because once you put ice on your hands and your feet,

the chemo drug doesn't go in there. So some women do cold capping. I didn't do that, but it's same idea behind that it constricts your blood vessels and the chemo drug doesn't go in it because I was scared of neuropathy because it's a long lasting damage. said, well, you know, I have three small kids. I do still need to be able to use my hand and my feet and all of that.

So I made it a big effort and it was, did it hurt to have my ice, know, my hand, my feet ice for sometimes I was in an infusion chair for seven hours. Yes, but I did it. And all of that was a big effort and I kept eating like ice chips too to prevent all the mouth sores because that helped too. So that's another thing I did. But do the doctors really talk about all these things?

Not really, not that much. It's kind of mentioned or brushed on the side. And that's very, I think that's very unfortunate because it can change not coping with your side effects, but also preventing side effects popping up in the future.

Josh Bostick (41:10.659)
Definitely. And for just out of curiosity for the hand and feet, like putting those in the tubs of ice, was that something that the doctor's office helped with? Like you said, I want to do this. Did they help like over those six, seven hours? Were they refilling the ice? That was like your husband doing that stuff.

Claudia De Pasquale (41:27.891)
Of course not. Of course not. No. Well, so it was, I didn't put it in ice buckets, but I had like these gloves and I got them off Amazon. You get kind of like they have gel pads and I went with my big cooler so I could change them. And just, I was someone who usually other people have been tolerating the chemo and got, you know, that depends too varies from person to person. I had allergic reaction and tolerated the drip only super slowly.

Josh Bostick (41:35.699)
Okay. Gotcha.

Claudia De Pasquale (41:57.003)
So that's why I ended up being in the chemo chair so long. But no, of course the nurses don't help you. So it was like, I had always a friend coming with me and they kept changing the ice boots and the gloves and feeding the ice. I was sucking on, I mean, couldn't even, know, my hands that I couldn't really use, my feet were on ice. And then like my friend or, you know, whoever was my caregiver, it switched from.

infusion to infusion kept feeding me ice and I, you know, I didn't have problems with swallowing like that. And I didn't have those horrible mouth source that I got with the first round when I didn't do that. So, you know, it could be that someone goes in and doesn't get it in the first place. It doesn't mean that everybody gets it, but it can be and it's a great prevention to, to do it. But

Does my doctor help or the nurses help me with it? No, of course not. You have to do that, which also I found, you know, I saw a lot of like elderly people going into treatment and some of them were there alone, you know, and it's kind of sad that that assistance, I know it's a cost, you know, it's a cost problem again, we're going back, it all comes down to money, but there are things that you can do and...

unfortunately, all these complimentary things, they cost money. And if you don't do them yourself, then, you know, nobody does them for you. But yes, I really think that the doctors or, you know, the nurse navigator, whatever they should, explaining how to do the research, where to find the gloves, I purchased the gloves and all of that. That was my, I put the effort in it.

Josh Bostick (43:47.063)
Yeah, and it just goes back to advocating and you know, the resources may not be there, but that doesn't mean you can't bring them in or incorporate them on your own. And one other thing that I really wanted to touch on that you've mentioned a couple of times, but I know when we did our initial tag up and and met each other, you had talked about your family and their support. One thing that I really want to touch on is was it just a we're here for you and whatever you need, we're

Claudia De Pasquale (43:56.683)
Yeah.

Josh Bostick (44:16.535)
you know, just ask and we'll do it. Or did they incorporate a lot of the changes as well? You mentioned juicing, for example, where it your husband making you juices or was he also drinking juices and incorporating that into his lifestyle is kind of like we're going through this together. I'm going to support you and be a part of it.

Claudia De Pasquale (44:37.503)
Yeah, I think like they did some of the champ. We were already very healthy to begin with. we, you know, I didn't typically eat packaged foods to begin with. No, actually my kids have never even tried it. I think we were a little strange when it comes to that, but you know, so we were healthy already, but I took it a little further and you know, I'm pretty much like following like an anti-inflammatory diet, nothing extreme. We eat all food groups.

Josh Bostick (44:47.225)
you didn't give up McDonald's or something.

Claudia De Pasquale (45:07.123)
I'm not vegan or nothing extremes, but it's we eat pretty much everything that, you know, nothing comes out of a package. Let's put it like that. And yes, my family, were on board like, you know, integrating these things as well. So now we made it a habit every so we have like a place where they they juice.

vegetables and fruits here in town. And when I was going through treatment, did it myself. It's a lot of work. But now we go every Friday and my kids, actually like it too, some of the juices. So yeah, they drink it too. So, you know, sometimes they kind of make fun, you know, of me because, know, it's like, yeah, mama who eats always all these vegetables and they're bringing their lunches to school and.

Other kids ask them what their lunches are. You know, what is a bell pepper kind of question where everybody else has Lunchables. I mean, don't get me started on school lunches, but you know, so yeah, we did incorporate all of that as a family. And we all tweaked everything like, you know, when it comes to food, but also I changed also like

cleaning products that we're using to go to less toxic alternative. The products that I use for personal care products like creams, lotion and all of that, I did swap a lot of traditional products as well that are like non-toxic. So, you know, I'm trying to educate

my kids from an early age on, you know, to read the labels and, you know, be aware that not because I didn't know that either. thought too that things were regulated here. And then you find out when you dig a little bit deeper that there is actually not that much regulation when it comes to personal care products and cleaning products. And it can now what I'm saying, it all sounds and I, if I put myself back,

Claudia De Pasquale (47:31.569)
for cancer diagnosis, it all sounds very extreme and very overwhelming. So you don't have to do this process overnight and exchange everything. No, but it's like, you know, it's a process like, and I talk a lot about this, like also on Instagram, like certain swaps that I did with, you know, cleaning products and, you know, choosing healthier options that

that can work for a family with kids as well. So, yes.

Josh Bostick (48:02.801)
It can and you're 100 % right where it can sound really extreme, but it's not something that you need to wake up on a Sunday and throw everything in your house out. You can gradually do it. And that's what my wife and I are slowly kind of incorporating. Like, you know, we got rid of the plastic cutting boards now and are using wood. We're not using plastic like cooking utensils that you put in hot water. And, you know, it's things like that that we're not

Claudia De Pasquale (48:09.033)
Yes.

Claudia De Pasquale (48:13.597)
Exactly. Yes.

Claudia De Pasquale (48:21.993)
Yes. Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (48:29.366)
Yes.

Josh Bostick (48:32.601)
dropping a thousand, two thousand dollars to redo the entire kitchen and the utensils, but making small swaps over time and just as you become educated, you know, just keeping your your mind open and understanding that, when I cut up these strawberries that I'm trying to eat to be healthy on this plastic cutting board, all these nanoplastics are getting wrapped up in those strawberries and then I'm eating them. So it's it's things like that that can seem extreme. But once you kind of break it down, it's like I could

Claudia De Pasquale (48:53.857)
Yep. Yep.

Yeah.

Josh Bostick (49:02.131)
That makes sense, I can see how that could affect us over time.

Claudia De Pasquale (49:05.557)
Yeah, because I think like when you're affected by chronic illness like that, of course, there's always the why. There's always the question, why did it affect me? And I know with cancer, a lot of people think, it's in the genes because the mom had it or whatever. No, this is not true. So 10 % is actually due to genetic components. I had like a genetic test too, like a test, like, you know, the genes that we know of.

They test like 87 genes and I don't have any mutation. And my mother, my mother doesn't have, didn't have breast cancer. And I was, as I said, fairly healthy, but we know as of today that 90 % are actually, you know, and they call it environmental factors. And that's like a whole bunch of, you know, a whole bunch of variables that go in there. It's like, yeah, it's.

Of course, it's the plastics that we have in our modern life. It's the foods that we eat. It can be even like the materials your house is built off, your clothes. Of course, now someone can say like, there's no way I can cut everything out. Yeah, it is true. You can't cut everything out. But I'm trying to control what I can control nowadays, knowing more.

And I'm trying to educate my children as well, on, know, to make, I said, like it's small swaps that you're doing over time, like the plastic boards or, you know, swapping them out or the cleaning products. There are alternatives. It's a lot of times actually going back to like how we used to clean too. Let's say like you're going from, from Clorox, you're going with, with vinegar and baking soda. You can, you can clean a lot of things. It's, it's small swaps.

Josh Bostick (50:59.679)
Yeah, it is. And another thing that I've learned when going through a lot of this is, especially with COVID, we got really down the rabbit hole of, you know, disinfecting and getting getting rid of all of the germs. And a lot of the cleaning things today. Sure, they wipe everything out, which can't always the best case. You know, there's obviously things that you want to clean. And, you know, if your kids pass firefalls on the ground, you want to make sure that's clean. But

Claudia De Pasquale (51:12.565)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Bostick (51:29.415)
It's kind like our gut biome where there are good germs out that are out there. And right now with some of the stuff we're using, we're wiping all of them out. So it's almost like this super sanitary just blankness where you're not getting any your germs. So I've learned that through some of my research as well.

Claudia De Pasquale (51:46.059)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (51:52.223)
Yeah. And I think that's where, you know, those journeys teach you really about like, you're starting to question certain things as well. mean, and really, you know, and a journey like that teaches you so much. And I think that's why you and I are doing what we're doing, because I was like, wow, I wish I would have known that. Actually, why did it need a chronic illness for me to realize a lot of things?

And I also get a lot the question like, well, you were already the picture of health. Why did you get cancer in the first place? So I would say like, yes, I was the picture of health already before, but I think that also helps you to get through treatment. So if you do get ill, you get through the treatments easier. So it's actually good to be strong in the beginning. if you're hit by...

by a disease like that, you will cope with side effects and the treatments just in general better than if you already have like, you know, a lot of other things going on.

Josh Bostick (53:06.011)
Right, yeah, if you have type two diabetes, cardiac issues, and then get hit with cancer, you're at a lot higher risk of being hurt and damaged and long-term complications versus if you were somebody who was active and pretty healthy to begin with, completely agree with that. So, well, we're getting close to time. Is there anything else that you want?

Claudia De Pasquale (53:12.617)
Exactly.

Claudia De Pasquale (53:16.342)
Yes.

Claudia De Pasquale (53:26.549)
Yes, yes.

Josh Bostick (53:33.65)
to touch on, to make sure that the listeners take home and any shout outs or ways that you want to reach out or any shout outs or ways that you want to allow people to reach out to you and contact you other than the blog. We'll put that on there for sure.

Claudia De Pasquale (53:54.005)
Yeah, people can definitely reach me either through my blog, which is mycancerdiaries.com, or I'm pretty active on Instagram as well. They can reach me over that, is at my underscore cancer diaries. And I'm also, as I said, like my blog is not only for women who are newly diagnosed.

with breast cancer. I do have a little bit the edge like someone who is also a caregiver parenting young kids like I was in my blog in general, but it's also for caregivers or supporters of a friend who has breast cancer. So they will find a lot of good information there as well, how to support.

a friend or a family member going through such a difficult journey.

Josh Bostick (54:59.29)
Awesome. Yeah. And I mean, I can relate to that because, you know, my wife is such a big supporter of me and she picks up the extra load on the days that I am just not able to do it. So that caregiver and support team in that community is such a big impact and they play such a powerful part in someone taking on learning, you know, conquering a chronic illness in different medical, you know, things that are going on. So.

super important there. Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (55:29.397)
Yes.

Yes, and I think like sometimes caregivers or friends and family, sometimes they want to help, but they don't really know how. And I think that's where, you know, resources, whether it's a podcast or a blog or following someone on Instagram who went through a journey like that can be really, really helpful. I did it myself. Like I was looking up, you know, people who had

walked that path that I had walked and now like now I'm spreading what I have learned. And I think that's where if you really want to help someone, you know, as I said, doctors, of course, they have their place in that journey. But I think people who have walked that path have a very important role in helping people who are newly diagnosed or walking

chronic illness past to learn from them because there's a lot of lessons to be learned that your medical team won't tell you.

Josh Bostick (56:38.982)
Yeah, agreed. just kind of going back to something that we talked about earlier on the podcast of the parallels of chronic illness.

Claudia De Pasquale (56:48.768)
Yes.

Josh Bostick (56:50.172)
connecting it.

specifically to cancer, guess, your complimentary treatments that you've included, you did those specifically for chemo, right? That was the main.

Claudia De Pasquale (57:05.503)
Well, no, didn't like your I started doing chemo, but I went beyond like into survivorship. Yeah, because I think like survivorship a lot of time for cancer survivor. Once you finish that active treatment phase, it's even harder. And a lot of survivor will tell you that because you you develop almost like PTSD. I mean,

Josh Bostick (57:12.624)
Okay.

Claudia De Pasquale (57:33.707)
The fear of recurrence and finding your new normal is so hard. And that's when I really started, you know, adding hypnotherapy was an important part of it, like to cope with the fear of recurrence because the fear of recurrence of cancer is real. And that's just like one example.

Josh Bostick (57:55.154)
Okay, because what I was thinking is we were obviously talking about your story and breast cancer, but could could what you used be used across different chemotherapy treatments and you know, people going through cancer? I mean, that's kind of the idea that I was having is that we're focusing on breast cancer, obviously, but there's probably parallels and things that you know, like the ice limb treatment with

Claudia De Pasquale (58:03.67)
Mm-hmm.

Claudia De Pasquale (58:15.455)
Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Bostick (58:24.282)
Is that good for other people going through chemo?

Claudia De Pasquale (58:27.883)
Well, the icing, depends if the chemo has, you know, causes side effects of neuropathy. That's something your doctor will tell you. So not every, not every chemo has the same side effects. So a lot of the breast cancer drugs do so, but like adding complimentary treatments, like adding like any hypnotherapy, like because you have a huge surgery ahead of you. Like when I went into my reconstruction and taking that fear.

Josh Bostick (58:36.901)
Okay.

Josh Bostick (58:41.596)
Okay.

Claudia De Pasquale (58:56.447)
with doing hypnotherapy, can that use by anybody? Yes, it can. So things like that too. And of course, like lifestyle changes, you know, in general as well and managing stress with meditation and with gratitude journaling or just doing breathing. mean, everybody can use that. mean, everybody who suffers anxiety, who is going through a...

Josh Bostick (59:00.635)
Okay.

Claudia De Pasquale (59:24.022)
chronic illness. Yes, that's definitely across the board. So some of the tips that I use in my blog can be used across the board.

Josh Bostick (59:32.109)
Okay, that's what I was getting at is there's definitely some tips for people that are even outside of just dealing with breast cancer themselves or a loved one. So perfect. Very cool. Again, Claudia, thank you so much for your time today coming on the podcast and sharing your story. I'm so glad that you were able to beat cancer and do what you're doing today and helping others. It's truly amazing.

Claudia De Pasquale (59:34.55)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (59:40.235)
Yeah.

Claudia De Pasquale (59:43.691)
Yes.

Claudia De Pasquale (01:00:00.725)
Thank you so much, Josh.