Scales Of Success Podcast

#14 - Secrets Behind Producing Blockbusters with Samantha Nisenboim

• Marcus Arredondo

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Have you ever wondered how filmmakers bring bold ideas to life while staying grounded in their values? In today’s episode, host Marcus Arredondo welcomes Samantha Nisenboim to discuss producing blockbuster hits like Renfield, working with A-list talent, and taking creative risks. Hear how she turned a childhood dream into reality, rediscovered her love for storytelling, and used meditation and self-reflection to stay balanced. Samantha’s candid insights will inspire you to embrace failure, follow your instincts, and create space for what truly matters.

Samantha Nisenboim is a film producer known for her work on high-stakes live-action and animation projects with A-list talent. A USC film school graduate, she honed her skills at Warner Bros., contributing to over 20 films, before co-founding a production company with director Chris McKay. Now producing independently, Samantha recently completed her film TOW and debuted as a writer-director with her short movie Something Blue.

Connect with Samantha Nisenboim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samantha-nisenboim-361b27b/

Episode highlights:
(1:27) The meaning behind “Renfield.”
(5:26) What makes a script stay with you
(10:51) Building strong creative partnerships and the role of a producer
(18:14) Taking significant risks early in a career
(21:17) Regaining confidence after setbacks
(26:32) Navigating personal growth and success
(31:20) Why failure leads to success
(34:28) Becoming a better listener
(36:54) Filmmaking challenges and solutions
(42:16) Embracing adaptability and creative confidence
(45:34) Creating the short film “Something Blue”
(53:46) Exploring inspiration and self-discovery
(55:47) Meditation and mindfulness practices
(59:29) Outro

Connect with Marcus


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Note: The transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

Samantha Nisenboim: 0:00

It comes down to practice. I think that the only way that you really get good at something is by doing it every day, and whether you start with a 30 second practice or a minute long practice, the more that you can create a habit of it, the more that you can be consistent with it, the better that you'll get at it.

Marcus Arredondo: 0:20

Today's guest is Samantha Niesenboim, a seasoned film producer known for managing high stakes live action and animation projects, including the Lego Batman movie, the Tomorrow War and Renfield. Samantha shares lessons learned producing over 20 films at Warner Brothers and launching a production company with director Chris McKay. We discuss what it's like collaborating with A-list talent, the importance of listening as a creative skill, what habits she's employing to stay sane, along with her recent experiences writing and directing her first short film, something Blue. Let's start the show Well. First of all, samantha, thank you for coming on. I'm very excited to talk to you.

Marcus Arredondo: 0:57

You and I have been friends for quite a while, but I've never really gotten to. I think we've touched on this a few times, but I want to open this up. Never really gotten to. I think we've touched on this a few times, but I want to open this up quickly. There was a quote I read where you wrote, or you said Renfield is about a guy who's got to get out, but in order to get out, he's got to get in. So I'm hoping that you can kick off, tell me about Renfield and what that phrase means to you.

Samantha Nisenboim: 1:20

Sure, it's funny when you're reminded of the things that you say. Tell you about Renfield. Renfield is a film that I produced, that Chris McKay directed, starring Nicholas Holt, nicholas Cage and Awkwafina, among a number of other incredible casts. We shot it in New Orleans in 2022, and it came out last spring, 2023. And it followed the story of Dracula's assistant, renfield.

Samantha Nisenboim: 1:53

You know Chris had wanted it to be an extension of the Dracula universe and, instead of focusing on the monster himself, we focused on what it is like to be, essentially, his live-in assistant. What is it like to service a monster and what does that mean in terms of servicing somebody who is unrelenting, you know, a blood-sucking human? And we used a ton of metaphors in terms of just the world that we live in today with that boss assistant relationship and how challenging it can be. And the reason that I said you know, in order to get out, you have to go in, is because I think that a lot of it boils down to issues of self-worth. I think that a lot of times, because we have a challenging relationship, just being honest with ourselves and what we you know, how we value ourselves, how we view ourselves it really projects to the world how you'll let other people treat you, and to me, that was something I'm always working on.

Samantha Nisenboim: 3:04

But really, the emotional resonance of that script in the early days before I had imagined a Holt or a Cage or any of these amazing actors to bring this thing to life it was really about what's the story here and what is getting butts in seats and what is emotionally compelling. How is this relatable to audiences and why should we be talking about this? And that's why, you know, that self-help group within the structure of the plot was also, I think, what audiences loved and connected to so much. But again, it really just goes back to you know, learning how to love and appreciate ourselves. So that way we are getting treated the way that we deserve to be in the outside world, whether it's, you know, by our boss or by a family member. You know anyone that you're interacting with day to day.

Marcus Arredondo: 3:57

What I loved about that, that film. For me it and I'll try and be as objective as possible but I am biased because I'm your friend but I found that movie so enjoyable to watch because it's a skill to be able to bridge humor, drama and something much more profound underneath it all, something much more profound underneath it all. It's almost like I when I found myself thinking I don't think people are realizing the message that's getting into their brain without they don't really realize what's sort of entering their domain. The music was terrific, the cuts were terrific, the gore was terrific. How do you navigate? How do you put that together?

Marcus Arredondo: 4:43

Because I think a lot of and this is going to be a question I ask later but as a producer, you're balancing a lot of balls, trying to figure out you know what works and to some degree you're sort of taking stabs in the dark until it starts to become illuminated and the film starts to take shape. You start to see the dailies, you start to see what's transpiring. But tell me about the process of starting to select, you know sort of, the right pieces and figuring out what, when a piece of art is good enough to keep moving forward. It seems like it would be a never-ending process. I'm just curious if you can give us some sense of what that decision-making process is for a producer.

Samantha Nisenboim: 5:26

Sure, that's a very dynamic question, so let me just try to break it down a little bit. You know, it really starts with the words on the page, the script and what I've already alluded to, like how does this? Does this hit me? Do I feel it in my bones? Is there an internal reaction? And, furthermore, when I put the script down, does it have staying power? Am I thinking about it? Am I? You know what's the takeaway here? Three days later, after you finish reading something you know, are you still thinking about it? The way that you want audiences to be still thinking about something after they've seen it? So, for me, there's so many scripts that I read that are really well written, but in terms of their staying power, it kind of comes and goes. For me, it just doesn't resonate internally. So that's a big component of it.

Samantha Nisenboim: 6:17

In order to really successfully build a film, I think it always you know, always starts with what the filmmaker's vision is, and Chris is really specific in that way and so just, you know, taking his lead and figuring out what is the best way to support him. We were lucky enough. Chris and I worked together for nearly a decade, and Renfield was the last movie that we did together. So we had developed our own language. You know, we knew what we were thinking without saying the word. It would just take a look, we were finishing each other's sandwiches Haha, a Lego Batman joke. We were finishing each other's sentences. And so I think I had a really comprehensive idea of what he needed in order to build that movie. I just, you know, I'm finishing a film right now that's called Toe. It hasn't yet come out and it's the first time I worked with this filmmaker named Stephanie Lang and I was really nervous entering that relationship, that partnership, because I was like, oh gosh, I don't know Steph, I've never worked with her. Because I was like, oh gosh, I don't know Steph, I've never worked with her. And I thought, oh, I did so well with Chris because of our shorthand, because we had developed it over time, and I actually had this confidence boost working with Stephanie, because I was able to pick so much of what she was putting down just by being a good listener and understanding what is important to her, what is her vision for this thing.

Samantha Nisenboim: 7:50

And that's my approach, you know, in terms of when we're hiring department heads and building this thing out. It's very rare that day to day, I come across a problem that I'm like oh, I know exactly how to handle this. Usually it's like, oh shit, I've never had to do this before and there's a component to it that's really scary, but at the same time it's really exciting because I'm not scared of figuring it out. I know that I can and you want to have to build a team around you, people that feel the exact same way, who are really determined to figure things out and to make things work. You know, my one of my mantras is you know, be the water, not the rock. And those are the types of people that I'm looking for. I think I, we.

Samantha Nisenboim: 8:37

You know, filmmaking is a team sport. It is, you know, fullon collaboration at every moment and landing the right team. Not every production designer and every director is going to work well together. Just because they're a phenomenal production designer and a phenomenal director, as separate entities doesn't mean that when you put them together, that it makes the most sense for that project. So it's really about identifying the right types of personalities, components, what is their background, what is their skill set? And also, just because somebody has made an awesome horror movie or designed an awesome action sequence doesn't mean that it's a one-to-one fit for the type of movie that you're doing. It's really gaming it out and assessment and being really good at People are exactly who they tell you that they are. It is a matter of I'm going to choose to listen to this as opposed to I'm going to force my way into a solution. I think that's kind of what it comes down to. I realize that's a broad answer. I'm happy to go more granular but at the same time, that's actually a terrific answer.

Marcus Arredondo: 9:49

There's two or three things that I want to go back to in a little bit, but I want to ask about how did that project? You know I think there's a I wouldn't suggest I know a lot about filmmaking but by virtue of being in LA and having friends in that industry, I have some sense of it. But I think there's a large percentage of the audience that don't really understand what's entailed in being a producer, what the difference is between being a film producer, a TV producer and how those are completely different roles. But I also think that there might be some perception that things just come to you, and I think all great artists are hunters. At the end of the day they have to go out and find what speaks to them and produce something on their own.

Marcus Arredondo: 10:34

So I'm wondering if you could just share how did you find this project? How did it? How did you go source it? Because it was your baby, it sort of. You know. It seemed like it was something that you helped to cultivate and bring to fruition. Can you tell us a little bit about the process, about finding the project and then bringing it to life?

Samantha Nisenboim: 10:51

Yeah, I was actually a friend of mine, that's an agent, was highly interested in repping Chris. Chris was with a different agency and sometimes, as these agents are trying to prove their worth, they're also kind of like, hey, check this out, check this out. So it was a good friend of mine that had slipped me the draft so I was able to read it ahead of time. It was something that I had then brought to Chris's team and said I read this, I loved it. I think that it would make a lot of sense for him. What do you guys think?

Samantha Nisenboim: 11:29

And originally people thought like this is a really big risk and while artistically it does, you know, it makes a lot of sense for Chris, it's probably, you know, maybe too risky in this moment. We should, you know, shake the trees and see what else is out there, see what else might be both artistic fit and also, you know, a better bet. And so I was, you know, in the process of when we were wrapping the tomorrow, where we were in the middle of post-production. That's really when I was, you know, head to the ground, really just, or sorry, nose to the ground, you know, reading to the ground you know I get it reading scripts, marcus, trying to find what the fuck is our next thing.

Samantha Nisenboim: 12:11

And renfield just kept, you know it was. I would read my pile of scripts, but any script that I read was just like okay, it's second best, it's third best, it's no. Renfield and we had had a previous relationship with Universal and I had knocked on a couple of those doors and just tried to figure out okay, like, is this movie important to them? What's going on here? How can I mitigate the risks? And try to like, let this thing, you know, simmer to the top. And so finally, at the end of the day, it just ended up coming in instead of a slip directly from Universal, them, you know, staking their flag and saying, hey, we'd really like for Chris to take a look at this, you know, let us know what you think. And so it really then became a real conversation for all of us to talk about. But, yes, I was really excited about that script and I did think it was a great fit for McKay, and so I did. I really championed it. I really saw a path forward for it.

Marcus Arredondo: 13:10

Tell me about knocking on doors and you know, as it relates to sourcing new opportunities, and I really want to talk about sort of what you were doing before you were a producer and the transition into, you know, joining Chris's team and identifying a new production company with him and how that was built.

Samantha Nisenboim: 13:31

Sure, you know, I I have always approached this industry as an artist. I grew up being obsessed with movies. I always had a camera in my hand. I was always writing. If a teacher asked for a book report, I was like, can I make a video? So for me, as much as I am a producer and I am somebody who's supporting artists, I do think of myself as an artist in my own right, because I am also highly creative and so the business side of what this industry is always came second, always came later.

Samantha Nisenboim: 14:07

So the early days of me just navigating, it was me being clueless, basically, and bullish, and it kind of worked out in my favor in terms of that odd combination, because I was lucky enough to work at Warner Brothers in their production and development department for a number of years under John Berg, who was a phenomenal mentor, a phenomenal boss. He's somebody I adore and he was really vital in my career in terms of helping me understand and paving the way. Paving the way. There was a number of things going on at Warner Brothers and you know, seeing how the sausage was made and seeing what the life of a studio executive was like, that wasn't as appealing to me as producing was because, with producing, you're really in the trenches and the studio executive roles, like you know, just a step back from that. And so I realized, you know, oh how, if I'm an assistant and I want to be a producer, who is going to let me be a producer? You know, I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing. I know I've got really good taste and really good instincts and really good relationships. I don't know how far that's going to get me. So I was looking at the landscape and kind of figuring out what were the jobs that I could be going up for and talking to people and looking at job boards, and none of those things resonated with me in a real way, and so I thought, well, how do I create a role for myself? What if I position myself to an up and coming director as somebody who wanted to partner with them? And that's that's what I did.

Samantha Nisenboim: 15:47

I had found out that Chris was looking for an assistant. He had just come off of co-directing the Lego movie in 2014. And I knew a ton of Werners made the Lego movie. So I knew the producers, I knew the people involved and I had asked around and tried to figure out a way to get in a room with Chris. And so, as he's interviewing for assistance, I sat there across from him and I said hey, I know you're looking for an assistant. That's not really why I'm here. Have you thought about starting a production company? You know you have. He was getting a deal at Warner's.

Samantha Nisenboim: 16:25

The success of the Lego movie meant that he was then going to be directing either a sequel to the Lego movie or something in that cinematic universe. He was getting his own production deal. And so I just, you know again bullishly but cluelessly, said hey, what do you think about partnering? You know, I've never made an animated movie before, but don't worry, I'm going to figure it out. And we're both from Chicago, right, and just try to find. Hey, what is our common ground? And also, wow, like I believe in this guy, it was again sitting in the audience watching the Lego movie. I was like I've never seen anything like this before and I want to be a part of this. So, so badly. This is the coolest thing ever. And so it was. You know that, the passion that that drove me. But I was lucky enough that he, he saw the ambition and it was just as exciting to him. And, and that was the beginning of it.

Marcus Arredondo: 17:23

I love that story because I think it really illuminates a common theme in a lot of the conversations I've had here where people. I think it's a common misconception that you can sort of just climb the ladder, you can sort of get where you want to go, but you'll be ushered there and the reality is, from what I've been able to see personally and through other people, is you really need to craft something? You need to come to the table with something, you need to create something on your own, and it's not always a linear path, right? Obviously there's a lot of zigzagging around, that type of chutzpah. You think that's nature or nurture. And let me phrase it on this, because I know your mother emigrated from the Soviet Union and I'm curious speak about your mom in light of that question.

Samantha Nisenboim: 18:16

I so badly want to speak about my mom, but I don't want to get emotional because she is just, she's very special. My mom, yes, she came here in 78, didn't speak the language, but wanted a better path forward for her life. There was persecution going on in Russia. My parents are Jewish. It's scary how similar things deal today. It's scary how you know similar things deal today.

Samantha Nisenboim: 18:49

But she came here and started cleaning hotel rooms.

Samantha Nisenboim: 18:58

She started learning English just by watching Sesame Street and children's programming, as she was, you know, a hotel maid and worked her way up to become a bank teller and then put herself through schooling, you know, to learn how to be a nail technician and, you know, very shortly thereafter ended up building an empire you know a very successful day spa that ran for about 35 years.

Samantha Nisenboim: 19:20

And when I was eight years old and I don't remember this, but I believe her, you know she said at eight years old, I wrote her a letter, I made a resume and I said hi, I would like a job working at Olga's you know her spa, olga's day spa, her name's it and so I definitely had it in me to really want to work and want to work hard, but it was also modeled for me. In a lot of ways, I do think it is a combination, but I grew up around a woman who worked relentlessly all the time and was very, very successful, and part of what I feel I owe her is success. She came here and had a very difficult life and I just I feel like, okay, you did all of this to create opportunity for your family, and the best way for me to to give it back is by, you know, taking the baton and trying to be as successful as possible as a result.

Marcus Arredondo: 20:27

So how does that translate to? Let's walk through your experience at USC and leaving USC to get into film. Right, because there's no clear path to get to become a producer. There's no clear path to become a director. One thing seems pretty common, though, is you gotta be creative. You have to be in some a lot of ways. Am I wrong in saying, whatever role you're taking, whether it's producer or director, director, you have to have some writing mentality. There has to be some form of storytelling in your DNA in order to be effective in either of those roles. Is that a fair thing to say?

Samantha Nisenboim: 21:06

I think that's very fair.

Marcus Arredondo: 21:08

So when you graduated SC, what was your plan? I mean, how did you start to navigate it coming out of there?

Samantha Nisenboim: 21:16

It's funny. I haven't thought about that period of my life in so long and now it feels so long ago. I was very unsure. Actually, now I do remember. I remember being terrified. I remember realizing that I no longer had a syllabus.

Samantha Nisenboim: 21:36

It was really easy to get through life when somebody handed you a sheet of paper and they said the next 12 weeks of your life are going to be this and all of a sudden it was 2007. There was another strike going on. Everyone the economy, I think, was collapsing. There were some layman brothers who were quite lame and are shit up, and so I freaked out and I went home. And I went home. I went back to Chicago. I was like there is no way. There's no way. I this was a pipe dream, you know this film school like I'm just going to go back to Chicago, I'm going to make it work at home.

Samantha Nisenboim: 22:23

And I worked at home for about a year in television production and I was making the most boring television shows of all time and I was pretty miserable and I was like wait, this is not my dream at all and I, just I, I got checked myself.

Samantha Nisenboim: 22:41

I, you know, I regained some confidence. I, you know, came head to head with my passion once again and got right back on a plane and got right back to Los Angeles and started fucking knocking down doors and talked to a couple people who gave me some advice, and I did everything I could and, you know, within a few interviews I landed a job and, to your point, yeah, I was like all right, I need to believe in myself and I need to start creating things for myself. And, as much as I am scared, I'd rather be scared and going down a path that is relevant to my life, something that I want to be doing, rather than being scared and going down a path that doesn't make as much sense. So it was always like trying to find that alignment and acknowledging it's okay to be scared shitless but at least go in the right direction.

Marcus Arredondo: 23:37

That's super interesting to me. How do you find confidence? How did you regain it? I mean, because I think there's something interesting about being youthful, because I think you can regain confidence a little bit easier than maybe it comes as you gather more data. Maybe there's a naivete that comes with sort of a hubris or a lack of knowledge, but, like you know, how do you recreate that over time and because you're going to get knocked down. So how do you? How do you come back to something that is sustainable?

Samantha Nisenboim: 24:05

There is a fire inside my bone and all that's. That is it it is. Oh okay. I am unhappy when I'm not doing the thing that I love, so why don't I try doing the thing that I love instead?

Marcus Arredondo: 24:20

What advice would you give yourself at that point If you were to do it all over again?

Samantha Nisenboim: 24:28

that point if you were to do it all over again. That's a tough one. My instinct was to say continue to check in with yourself, have journaling, getting to know yourself and what you want as early as you can To me, one of the most vital things that any young person can do. It is so easy to look over there and over there and over there and beg for external validation. It does not get you anywhere, because what you know person A over there says should make you happy or will make you feel good. How do they know? Like it's all about going inside and figuring out who am I and what do I want, and the sooner you start that journey, I think the better off you'll be.

Marcus Arredondo: 25:23

I cannot tell you how much this resonates, and you're echoing, obviously, themes from from Renfield too, which is sort of why I am saying when I was watching it, this is speaking to a much deeper part, I think, of psychology. So what does it mean to get closer to yourself? I've got an idea of that. But how do we get closer to who we are? How do we navigate that?

Marcus Arredondo: 25:43

And I'll offer this from my own experience, which I come at ebbs and flows, but the simplest way I can describe it is just being able to understand that you are not your thoughts, and those thoughts are voices. So just be aware of those voices, whether they are your own or they are someone else's, because most of the time your voice doesn't really speak, it just does Right. But there are other voices that keep you from doing. And if you're not aware, somebody is going to jump in that driver's seat that's not you and it's going to drive the bus somewhere that you don't want to go. And I've been there, I frequently find myself there. But I'm curious what's your take on that? I mean because I think that's so poignant what you're talking about.

Samantha Nisenboim: 26:31

You know, I think your point is absolutely right. You know a bird is meant to fly. You know the ocean makes waves. The mind thinks that's just its job and kind of removing the association of these are just thoughts and starting to connect more so with your body. We spend so much time living in just this tiny portion of our entire body versus really checking in and figuring out like how does this make my body feel? Like right now I have clammy hands because I'm nervous.

Samantha Nisenboim: 27:05

Talking to you on your podcast, I want to perform, I want to do well. You know, it's just like kind of checking in and recognizing that with yourself. And for me it comes down to practice. I think that the only way that you really get good at something is by doing it every day, and whether you start with a 30 second practice or a minute long practice, the more that you can create a habit of it, the more that you can be consistent with it, the better that you'll get at it. For me, I find that starting my day with meditation and journaling is highly important. I, you know, because the mind is racing and you're thinking so many thoughts. It really helps me to identify what I you know what I actually am thinking about and feeling, what I actually want, and also just helping define, you know, like, what is success to me, and understanding that you know what my worth is, just as a human being.

Samantha Nisenboim: 28:10

My job doesn't define my worthiness. Me, writing and directing a film has nothing to do with my worthiness. It's just an extension of something that I've created. Yeah, sure, did I create it? Yeah, and am I proud of it? Sure, but it's just an extension of myself. It has nothing to do with my own worth. And, you know, trying to, you know, differentiate those two things and understanding that happiness, you know, I've tried to distance myself more and more from, like, the material aspects of life too, and the, you know, chasing status I think that was something that was so important to me when I was younger was like, again, the need to prove to everybody around me that I you know I was good enough or that you know I was worth their time. And you know, I've just I've walked back from that so much.

Marcus Arredondo: 29:10

For sure, for sure. I think a lot of growth entails less. It's more about removal and less about adding things, oh, lightly, less forceful. Less, less Totally. Life should not be. Look, there's challenges. I think you need to do hard things, but I think there is a way to be in flow with that and not be so resisting to it. How do you define success for you? When you think of success, what comes to mind is qualities entailed in it.

Samantha Nisenboim: 29:42

I haven't figured it out yet. That's okay, something I'm wrestling with has actually been.

Samantha Nisenboim: 29:48

Um, the timing of this podcast was so funny because my theme of the month was trying to define. You know, what does success look like? What does that mean to me? It's something that I've been ruminating on a lot and I I still am not sure I feel like I'm right on the cusp of understanding. But I also, in hearing myself say that like to me that also is being able to say I don't know or you know, being able to recognize what you don't want is just as helpful as learning. You know what you don't want is just as helpful as learning what you do want.

Samantha Nisenboim: 30:31

And I find that success kind of happens by all of my failures, instead of chasing what success is, the more that I am going through these rounds of meeting or taking on this project or doing this thing or trying something new and realizing, oh, I thought I really wanted this, but actually this isn't working for me at all. That is driving me towards success, and the fact that success is opposite is failure To me. That word is associated with such negativity, but I am thrilled to fail. I'm thrilled to fuck up. I'm so grateful for it, because it just opens my eyes to what actually makes sense for my life instead.

Marcus Arredondo: 31:19

There's so much that you have in there that I love. But there's one theme that I think pervades sort of what you're talking about, and it all stems, in my opinion, from action. Action breeds opportunity, and I would say this about finding a life partner. I would say this about finding a business partner. I would say it about finding a job that you like. I think a lot of people say I want to do something I love. They don't know what they love and so they just sort of flounder, thinking they're going to find it by not doing anything. But the number one thing that informs you where you should go is by finding out where you shouldn't, and the only way you find out what you shouldn't be doing is by action.

Marcus Arredondo: 32:04

You have to take action in some form or another, and I'll offer my idea of success, which it ebbs and flows, but something I've come to process that seems right is perseverance in the chase to attain the qualities you respect the most. Chase to attain the qualities you respect the most. So I see that, and the perseverance component is critical in the action of doing it Right. You know what I'm saying. So failure, to your point, in many ways the opposite of success is inaction, yeah, not failure.

Samantha Nisenboim: 32:46

Right, right.

Marcus Arredondo: 32:47

Inaction, not failure, right, right. And failure, to me is really the stepping stone toward this undefinable metric of success. Because success, just like happiness, I think, just like wealth, these are never-ending goals. Goal, they're always going to continue changing, which is why this act of focusing closer to who you are I find to be really inspiring.

Samantha Nisenboim: 33:17

Well, and I think to your point, you know these are things that you can just keep chasing and chasing, and chasing, and I don't really see how that is, but for me that is not gratifying, you know, like just being on the chase, because I'd much rather be in the moment and enjoying where I'm at and continuing to take stock and understanding, like hey, based on my values, what's actually important to me versus there is more here, you know, like far more unsatisfying.

Marcus Arredondo: 33:54

So I think we could talk about this for the remainder of our time, to be honest, but I want to. I want to pivot a little bit. I want to come back to something you said a little bit earlier and thank you for sharing all that. That was. I found that super, super interesting being a good listener. How did you become a better listener? What approach did you take? Because I think there's a direct relationship between how effective you are, particularly as a producer, and how well you listen.

Samantha Nisenboim: 34:27

It's funny that I take for granted some of these skill sets. I think it's just. This is who I am. I'm not sure that I ever took.

Marcus Arredondo: 34:36

I'll just voice that you were not always a great listener. You are a much better listener now than you were.

Samantha Nisenboim: 34:41

I appreciate that and I'm really proud of that growth. But I think it has more to do with emotional maturity and actually wanting to be a better version of myself. You know, there it's really. That takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of honesty to say to yourself you could be. It's. You know, and everyone is, self care, this and self care that getting a facial doesn't make you a better person.

Samantha Nisenboim: 35:16

Um, but yeah, I, I think part of it was maybe that I wanted to differentiate myself a little.

Samantha Nisenboim: 35:26

And uh, you know, there's everyone is so eager when you're sitting around a table and it's 10 people, 20 people, whoever it is, is like when is it my turn to talk? I want to say something, so people know that I'm adding value, and when I listened to the words that they were saying, I didn't find that they always added value, and so I think it was just going through the process of you know the everyday. You're just, you're just in it. And then, you know, a lot of times for me it's just instinct, or something clicks, or I just know. I can't explain it, but just in my body I'm just like oh, this is exactly what I should be doing right now, and listening gives you the answer. You know it's when people are. They're telling you what they need, what they want, and when it's your job to execute what people need and what they want, you have to listen to them, like it's to me. It's like it's not any more complicated than that.

Marcus Arredondo: 36:27

Well buried in that comment is listening to other people, but also listening to yourself, and I wanted to reference something you mentioned. So you had mentioned that you know Nick Cage, being a legendary actor, really stood out as deferring to Nick Holt, as Nicholas Holt is, the is the lead. Yeah, what was your observation in seeing that? What did you take away from somebody of that caliber accepting that role and taking it on so fluidly?

Samantha Nisenboim: 36:52

Well, I, marcus, I have to say your questions are really poignant and they are very challenging and my instinct is to be like, okay, I need to answer this right away, but what I want to do is like, let me think about this, let me really.

Marcus Arredondo: 37:09

You can say I don't know no.

Samantha Nisenboim: 37:11

I.

Marcus Arredondo: 37:11

And you can come back to it too.

Samantha Nisenboim: 37:14

Watching that relationship was really magical, because it was the best form of leadership. You know, by understanding and not even understanding, but by like it's very clear when you read the script who the fucking lead of the movie is. Like that's what, and that's what cage came in not only did he want to play dracula, but he also wanted to support his actor, his friend, this, the last time they worked together. You know, nick was a kid and so he wanted to, you know, and and cage was the lead in that movie, and so I think it was like very full circle for him and really just goes to show you that you, when you have a long, storied career in Hollywood, it's not because you're, you know, sitting at the top of the mountain the whole time, you're, you have these ups and downs, but it's also like nurturing community, there's all these elements that go into making art and supporting people, and so you know that that, to me, is what it was about for the most part.

Marcus Arredondo: 38:23

Let me ask you a somewhat related question. What do you think separates great films from good films?

Samantha Nisenboim: 38:32

Preparation.

Marcus Arredondo: 38:34

Go more into that.

Samantha Nisenboim: 38:35

I think that it really. It comes down to the early days when you are working on a film and you the early iterations of it are talking about a script and talking about what it might look like, and it's very easy to read the room and see are these people on the same page or are they not? And when they're not on the same page, it shows up in the movie. You can see this piece of the movie. This piece of the movie, this piece of the movie is the director wanted this thing, the studio wanted this thing, the lead actor wanted this thing, and they never really came together with a strong cohesion of what the movie was. And I'm not talking about when you're on set and something goes wrong and you have to pivot, because that happens day in, day out. I'm talking about like a broader perspective of things, of like just pretending that the you know the disagreements and that the different visions are on a parallel path, when they're very clearly going down different roads.

Marcus Arredondo: 39:47

How do you intervene with that? I mean, do you just think that we need to substitute the team, or are there ways that you've seen effective at creating more of that synergy?

Samantha Nisenboim: 39:58

It's not that easy, I think, um, in a lot of ways, there's so so many people involved who want to will a movie into existence for their own reasons, you know, and sometimes it has nothing to do with me, but it has to do with a group of shareholders in New York, you know, like there's just there's. It's a very difficult question to answer because there's not really a path, you know. You know a one way to answer it it's every movie is different. Every movie has its own DNA. You are birthing, you know, for lack of you know it's not a child, but it is. It is your baby, sure, and and so it is very much project to project.

Samantha Nisenboim: 40:43

I think you can do everything that you can to support the filmmaker or to hear what the studio is asking for and give them what they want. But in a lot of ways it's just so much more elusive than that. People are not as straightforward as they should be in a lot of these rooms. Or they'll say yes to something and they have this plan in the back of their mind of like, oh, I'm going to say yes now, but I'm going to figure out how to get what I want, you know, when we're in post, or when we're this, when we're that, and so it's really. It's really tough because everybody has their own motivation at the end of the day for for why the movie has to exist or be on the slate, you know, or be attributed. At that moment. It's much bigger than, like you know, me sitting here, and sometimes you just have to understand like, oh, this is out of my control.

Marcus Arredondo: 41:35

Yeah, well, you know, on that note, there are a lot of everybody talks about EQ, and emotional intelligence is a critical component to running teams, and I don't disagree with that. But something that was referenced in a prior episode was an adaptability quotient, which is the ability to what you were mentioning before, sort of not knowing how to do something and having the confidence to figure it out, or that you've got the resources to do that. How can you maybe share what that experience was as it relates to toe and then even into, you know, your own film that's coming out?

Samantha Nisenboim: 42:11

Specifically to the adaptability experience.

Marcus Arredondo: 42:14

Yeah.

Samantha Nisenboim: 42:15

Putting one foot in front of the other, like it's. It is not really much more complicated than that. I think also like understanding when to walk versus when to pause and take stock and regroup and continue to ask questions or to, you know, expose yourself a little bit. Hey, this is what I've tried. I would just like to confirm are we on the same page here? Because a lot of what life is and what filmmaking is it's not. You know some solo experience.

Samantha Nisenboim: 42:54

You are one of many when you're making a film and you don't have to have all the answers. Just because I am a producer, just because I'm in charge or I have hired these people, doesn't mean that I have to know everything. It's okay for me to say, hey, I've never made a $7 million movie. The last movie I made was over $90 million. Can you help me?

Samantha Nisenboim: 43:24

I'm not sure how to do this, and that's not a weakness, and I think maybe the adaptability component comes in with also being able to distance yourself from feeling like you're weak, or that you cannot ask for help in moments when maybe you recognize I need to adapt here, but I'm not quite sure how to, and those things probably go together a little bit more than we realize, than we realize.

Samantha Nisenboim: 43:55

But I think, you know, for me that's, that's been the biggest thing, because a lot of times I'm either the youngest producer on set or I've made far less movies than other producers. And in my early days I felt, like you know, I had so much to live up to or I had to prove that I deserve the seat at the table. And it's like I already proved that I deserve a seat at the table and so now let me do the best job possible. You know, as I sit here, and sometimes that just means saying I don't know, hey, can you person who's made 20 times the amount of movies I've made please help me? And what like? Why is that bad? Why? Why is someone judging me for that? You know that's, that's their weakness, that's their inability to adapt.

Marcus Arredondo: 44:45

That has to come from setting your own boundaries and knowing yourself.

Samantha Nisenboim: 44:48

Yeah.

Marcus Arredondo: 44:48

Yeah, building that trust and I think coupled with that comes with confidence. I mean, if we boil down the word, it all works together. Right, I mean confidence. You boil down the Latin word, it's con, and the root of I think it's fideus, which is faith, and with with faith. People conflate confidence with arrogance or conceitedness, but really it's just a faith in yourself. It's the belief that what you're doing will prevail in some way. Right doing will prevail in some way Right. On that note, tell me about writing and writing your, your, your first short film and producing it and wearing every hat under the sun for the record called something blue. I would like, I'd like to hear more about that process.

Samantha Nisenboim: 45:33

You know, this goes back to what I was saying earlier and just in terms of taking a step back and taking stock with what do I want? I love producing, I'm very good at it, it's very fun. But there was a part of me ever since I was a kid that wanted to be a writer director. That was originally what I came to Hollywood for, what I went to USC for, and I got quite intimidated quite early on by everybody around me and thought, oh shoot, I don't know if I can be a writer director. Let me pivot here. But after 20 years of quelling that, I was like I really do want to write and direct something and I have this idea and I think that this could work. And so I just went down the path of passion and, you know, put pen to paper. I had a lovely time writing. It was so wonderful and joyful and it was great to, you know, send different iterations of the script and get feedback and write and rewrite and just put this thing together.

Samantha Nisenboim: 46:38

I, you know it's something I didn't have to do at all, but I just I wanted it so badly and I'm so proud of myself, you know, I, I'm so proud that I had the gumption to do it. I'm grateful that I had the resources, that I was, you know, able to pick up the phone, and you know it was very much a scavenger hunt. You know, able to pick up the phone and you know it was very much a scavenger hunt. You know, calling this person led me to this thing and you know, building out the correct past and the correct crew, and you know some of it was favors, but favors only were. You know this much it really was.

Samantha Nisenboim: 47:14

Oh, people actually believe in this thing. They believe in this thing and they want to be a part of it. And that also helped me build a trust with myself, which I you know was important to me, because it's one thing when you say, hey, I have $90 million, want to get paid some money and go do a thing, versus like, hey, so I don't have any money, but what do you think? And they're like, oh, this art don't have any money. But what do you think? And they're like, oh, this art is compelling, like that was very, very gratifying.

Marcus Arredondo: 47:42

What was your writing process like? Do you have scheduled times? Do you get into a flow writing something else? Like what's your process?

Samantha Nisenboim: 47:51

I'm much more of like everybody leave me alone, I'm canceling plans.

Samantha Nisenboim: 47:55

You know there's times where you guys don't see me for a you know pocket of time, because I'm just like everyone get away, I just need my little hole. You know, the muse, you know, is evasive, and so it's like, when she appears, I'm like, oh, I got to chase this, I have got to be here for it. So, and I'm still figuring out who I am as a writer, I think I have to find a way to evolve because, you know, producing is my day job and this is something that is, like you know, become not just a hobby of mine but something that I'm actually, you know, pursuing in a lot of ways, and so I have to figure it out. But the collaboration, you know, trusting other writers with the material and to give notes and to give feedback, and you know just being able, brave enough, to throw stuff away. You write this line that you think is the greatest line of all time, and three days later you're like it doesn't work anymore, Like it's got to go.

Samantha Nisenboim: 48:54

And just you know, being able to, you know, give in to that is important to get. You know, getting out of your own way.

Marcus Arredondo: 49:02

Well, that's sort of back to your point about detachment. Yeah, in some ways this is a podcast about Buddhism. Really, I think is what you've been sharing with us.

Samantha Nisenboim: 49:09

Oh, I didn't. I hope that fits on one of the scales, Marcus. What do you think?

Marcus Arredondo: 49:31

Well, what's it like to have your baby come and then go out into the world where your ability to change it and edit it is over. It's out there and it's now sort of an organ sitting outside your body. Now, what is that process like?

Samantha Nisenboim: 49:41

I think that's where the Buddhist component comes in, that's where the detachment comes in. No, I mean, listen, you have to take stock. You know it's like I've harvested something. You know, like here, this, I made this thing and even if there's a million and one different ways that I could have edited it, or you know like it could have taken shape in so many different ways but I think, just being able to be proud of myself, no matter what, and just for the fact that I did it, that I set out to accomplish something. I set that goal and I did it.

Samantha Nisenboim: 50:22

And at the end of the day, I know it's not going to be the best movie, the best short film of all time. I know it's not going to be the worst short film of all time. It is my short film, it's mine and that's it. It was an extension of myself. I put it out there and there's me people that appreciate it. It's going to resonate for some people and for others it's not. It's going to get into some film festivals, it's not going to get into others, but it doesn't take anything away from the fact that, like, I did something that I wanted to do and I'm really proud of myself for having accomplished that.

Marcus Arredondo: 50:57

What do you think you take away from this experience as it relates to how you approach new endeavors?

Samantha Nisenboim: 51:03

from the making the short film, or yeah?

Marcus Arredondo: 51:06

your own writing, your own producing pulling your own bootstraps up.

Samantha Nisenboim: 51:11

The thing that I am realizing more and more is that saying no to stuff actually makes room for the stuff you want to say yes to. I'm not grasping at straws as much as I used to. There's less like desperation, I guess, in terms of I've got to make this thing fit. You know like, oh, I'm going to miss out on some big filmmaker. You know like, if something doesn't resonate with me, it's not for me, and just coming to terms with that and making peace with that, that's, that's okay.

Marcus Arredondo: 51:45

Yeah, so I'm going to have some broader questions here. Recent writer strike.

Samantha Nisenboim: 51:51

Yes.

Marcus Arredondo: 51:51

What's your crystal ball? I mean as it relates to AI and the future of film, and you know the Producers Guild and the Writers Guild. What do you see? How do you see things changing? I know that there's a lot of conflict and contention right now. People are trying to figure out how all this plays out, but do you have a take on that?

Samantha Nisenboim: 52:12

I think it's very cute that you think that I would know anything, Guess what. No one fucking knows, and anybody who's telling you that they do doesn't. So you know you got to forge your own path. Are we going to just stop making shit? No, so. Is it going to change? Yeah, Are you going to find your way in it? Yeah, All right. Going to find your way in it? Yeah, All right. That's that, Like I, the whole freaking out about it or predicting this or predicting that. You know it's out of my control. Like I, I'll take the path of that. You know the stoic guy you you often talk about out of my control. You know, just keep going.

Marcus Arredondo: 52:59

Fair enough, I know you're a John Hughes fan. I also wanted to read you a list because I asked Cat GPT what the top 20 most famous Chicago based actors or actors from Chicago.

Samantha Nisenboim: 53:12

Okay, okay.

Marcus Arredondo: 53:14

Just just as a random question, but they include Robin Williams, harrison Ford, bill Murray, john Belushi, joan and John Cusack, viola Davis, jeremy Piven, jillian Anderson, mandy Patinkin, harold Ramis, david Schwimmer, michael Shannon, anna Chlumsky, lawrence Bishburn, joe Mantegna the list continues to go on. What do you think Chicago has in its water that has such a strong film culture?

Samantha Nisenboim: 53:45

Such an exuberant kind city. I think that if you ask ChapGPT, you know name any random city, they'd you know throw out a list of you know wonderful filmmakers, and that there are artists everywhere, um, and I, I, I don't know.

Marcus Arredondo: 54:11

I don't want to disappoint you by not having no, I, you know what I I find interesting is, um well, uh, chicago is one of my favorite cities. Wrigley Field might be one of the top four favorite places on the planet for me. A large part of that is. One of my best friends lived there off and on and for some time and so I spent quite a bit of time there. He also happened to have been an ImprovOlympic and Second City guy and because of Second City I got super interested. I mean, I've always found him funny, but I also got super interested in just comedy in general.

Marcus Arredondo: 54:44

And uh, del Close wrote a book, uh, truth and comedy, which really sort of altered my perception of how I viewed life in a lot of ways. But I have to think that there's, there's something about maybe it's geography and maybe being a hub for you know other, it's one of the larger cities in the Midwest, maybe there's a confluence of cultures, but I do think that there's an element of like that Midwest hospitality or sort of kindness that I do sense, not always, but in Chicago, that in in Chicago, that lends itself to maybe more creative expression.

Samantha Nisenboim: 55:22

But um, opening your heart up to people. Yeah, that is a lot of you know. Those are to me Midwestern values and one of my takeaways from from growing up there.

Marcus Arredondo: 55:32

So I I totally, what's a feeding your mental diet right now? Are you reading anything, anything listening to anything? Uh, podcasts, books, movies, that are that are making you motivated or think different I am.

Samantha Nisenboim: 55:47

I'm just drawing a total blank here. I'm trying to think because I've just been in the middle of like making a list of all read from this. Listen to this. There is this author by the name of young pueblo. Uh, who's kool-aid I'm drinking pretty steadily lately uh young pueblo yeah, y-u-n-g.

Samantha Nisenboim: 56:12

It's his pen name. He shares what his real name is in his book, but I did not retain that as much as I retained his other words. Your wife got me hooked on Mark Manson. I know he's been around for a while, but kind of just getting that like Monday weekly email and starting the week off right is very important to me.

Marcus Arredondo: 56:35

I just finished the Subtle Art, which is super late to read, but I thought that was wonderful Reinterpretation of Buddhism, to be honest.

Samantha Nisenboim: 56:45

Yeah, and then, honestly, what I have been spending the most time on is meditation learning different forms of meditation, starting to work with different teachers, going to a few different classes a week and understanding how to approach mindfulness in a way that feels not like it's a chore, but it's something that is enhancing my life and it's become something that I really cannot live without. But I've been spending far more time with myself lately than I have been kind of on external resources or entertainment, and so it's that's really been. I find that I kind of my I have very specific focal points for a certain amount of time and it's like I just have to gobble everything up in whatever you know form it is, and then I can move on to the next. So there will be a time where it's like I you know, I watched 20 movies in four days or, and so right now I'm just like in this little like meditation pocket.

Marcus Arredondo: 57:50

I like it Any. Uh. Well, if, where can people get a hold of you, and what type of inquiries or interest would you be open to receiving?

Samantha Nisenboim: 58:01

I am on LinkedIn, so I'm happy for people.

Marcus Arredondo: 58:05

We'll include that in the show notes.

Samantha Nisenboim: 58:07

A hold of me there. I try to keep everything else pretty private and in terms of inquiries, I think I like people that have really specific questions. I get a lot of emails. You know oh, can you, can you meet with me? Can you read a script? Can you this, can you that?

Samantha Nisenboim: 58:27

Legally I'm not allowed to read your stuff. You know it has to come through an entertainment attorney or an agent or something like that, and I try to be really mindful of my time. But when I do meet with people, I ask them to prepare three to five questions ahead of time, because I really want to make sure that I know what I'm walking into. I can be as prepared as possible to help them. But I also think it gives them a chance to reflect on hey, what am I actually looking for here? Because I think it maybe is exciting to get advice from. I'm always excited to reach out and make new connections and forge new relationships. But before I ever send an email I sit there and think what the fuck am I asking this person? Why them? What is it that I admire about them? What are their qualities that are interesting to me or that I want to emulate? So that way it's like very, very focused and very specific. So I'm just kind of asking for the same thing in return.

Marcus Arredondo: 59:27

I think that's totally fair. Thank you so much. This was awesome. And any closing thoughts, last words.

Samantha Nisenboim: 59:35

I could feel myself smiling a lot of the time when we spoke and I worry that people think perhaps I'm too Pollyanna, but I am just genuinely. I am who I am Like. I'm wearing a Taylor Swift sweatshirt and I'm proud of liking the things that I like and I'm just trying to be the truest version of myself and I would encourage you you know in the audience to do the exact same thing and, you know, be a fan. Be a fan of whatever you want to be and be a fan of yourself.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:00:09

What a great way to end. Thank you so much for being on.

Samantha Nisenboim: 1:00:13

Sure Thanks for having me.