Scales Of Success Podcast

#19 - The Cost of True Public Service with Charlie Gonzalez

• Marcus Arredondo

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What does it take to stay honest in politics? In this episode of the Scale of Success Podcast, host Marcus Arredondo connects with former Congressman Charlie Gonzalez about how he pulls back the curtain on the hidden costs of public service, the influence of big money in politics, and how fear and misinformation fuel division today. He shares unfiltered stories about family legacy, why political integrity is so rare, and what everyday citizens can do to spot false narratives and make informed decisions. Whether you’re passionate about politics or want to know how it all works behind the scenes, this episode will challenge your thoughts about leadership, media, and democracy.

Charles A. “Charlie” Gonzalez, licensed in 1972, practiced law until 1982 before serving as a judge in County Court No. 2 (1982-1987) and the 57th State Judicial District Court (1988-1997), where he improved efficiency in civil and domestic violence cases. Elected to Congress in 1998, he served until 2013, holding key roles on Financial Services, Energy and Commerce, Judiciary, and Homeland Security committees. He chaired the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, the Hispanic Caucus Institute, and a task force on Florida’s District 13 election results.

Get in touch with Charlie Gonzalez:
Website: https://bit.ly/3Qpxzev
X: https://x.com/TX20CharlieG 
Phone: 210-277-3606

Episode highlights:
(1:39) Who is Congressman Charlie Gonzalez? 
(2:48) Family Legacy & escaping the Mexican Revolution
(7:38) Henry B. Gonzalez’s political impact
(12:51) A legacy of action & integrity in politics
(17:42) The financial reality of public service
(21:36) The pressure of following a political icon
(32:13) The rise of political tribalism & division
(42:42) How voters can identify truth in media
(50:31) Why unity in America feels harder to achieve
(55:06) Citizens United & the influence of money in politics
(1:03:02) Advice for staying engaged later in life
(1:06:21) America’s future & civic responsibility
(1:08:08) Outro

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Note: The transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

Charlie Gonzalez: 0:00

When you look at X and if you look at Facebook, if you look at all these things, there is no liability. And you know why? Because they're saying we didn't say it, we're a platform, we don't have to be responsible, we don't have to be accountable, we're not liable for anything. We don't have any real skin in this game. I don't know what we do about that. It's one of those things that bad genies out of the bottle.

Marcus Arredondo: 0:25

Yep.

Charlie Gonzalez: 0:26

And it's very finding.

Marcus Arredondo: 0:28

Today's guest is Congressman Charlie Gonzalez, who served 14 years in Congress after his father's 37-year tenure. He shares the personal cost of public service, the rarity of financial integrity in politics and his fight for consumer protections. We discuss how fundraising laws have reshaped power in Washington, the role of fear and misinformation in today's political polarization, along with how to better spot false narratives. What stood out to me most was his unfiltered take on why true public service means leaving office with your principles intact, even if it costs you financially. Let's start the show, congressman Gonzalez. I'm so thrilled for you to be on. Thank you so much for joining today.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:09

I can't welcome, oh no, no, it's my pleasure.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:12

So I want to set the table for everybody. If you'll indulge me for a second, because you have an esteemed career which we're going to spend the meat of the conversation talking about. I'm going to go through that very briefly. It's going to be a butchered, unrepresentative, unfair representation of your accomplishments, but we're going to get into that a little bit more and then I'm going to talk a little bit about the background. Then I'm going to launch into a question. So just to set the table for the audience, congressman Gonzalez has been a representative of San Antonio, for whom I interned 20 years, 20 plus years ago and comes from a long generation of history. So I want to touch on that before I do.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:51

Few facts Congressman Gonzalez has served for 14 years. You served as a judge in different capacities for 15, 16 years or so. You've been successful in your private career 15, 16 years or so. You've been successful in your private career in your legal practice. You served on the Air National Guard. All of these things I want to unpack a little bit further, but before we do I wanted to talk a little bit about legacy. I became a dad two years ago and your history is fascinating, so I want to start with your grandfather and then I want to get to your father. But your grandfather, don, and correct me if any of this lore is incorrect, but from my research he owned several silver mines and was the mayor of Mapipi in Mexico, and he was jailed by a revolutionary group and was scheduled to be put to death by firing squad. He ended up escaping and fleeing Mexico to arrive in San Antonio. Is all that correct?

Charlie Gonzalez: 2:48

Yeah, it's really an interesting. A lot of wonderful history and lore All pretty factual actually. But no, he was mayor of a small town called Mapimi in Durango, and they were very fortunate. As a matter of fact, in that little town they have a museum and they feature him in this.

Charlie Gonzalez: 3:13

So Leonidas Gonzalez, my grandfather, obviously fled during the Mexican Revolution at the turn of, I guess, 20th century, with 1900, early 1900s and people forget, the country was in total turmoil. You could have had a million people died in the revolution, but definitely some of the revolutionists were definitely going after the establishment and there is no doubt that my grandfather was part of the establishment. They owned mines, mostly silver and such, and, like I said, he was the mayor and so on. He had a couple of brothers. His younger brother was already in medical school down in Mexico City Long, long story. But they definitely had imprisoned him and he was. You know, they took care of people, if you know what I mean, and he was able to escape. The problem was they left everything. They left with nothing, like so many people do today that weren't in this privileged and professional group, in that small town, but they left and they came to the United States and they came to San Antonio. A lot of people stayed right there in Laredo, right across from the border, because the intention was that they would always return, Always Right, never gave up that hope. So when they got here they didn't have anything and so they had to build.

Charlie Gonzalez: 4:40

But my grandfather was a very learned man and he started working as the editor of the Spanish-language newspaper La Prensa, which was owned and started by the Lozano family. The Lozano family went on to actually have the biggest. Just San Antonio was the start, but they ended up in Los Angeles Opinion, the big newspaper, and that was the Lozano family. I think Monica's granddaughter was still head in it for many, many years. So it was an incredible time.

Charlie Gonzalez: 5:21

But I could show you pictures and you would just laugh. My father was born at a house on Upson Street. That house is still there and members of the family my generation and younger replicated a photograph that was taken there 100 years ago with our grandparents and it's very interesting because relatives all came to San Antonio. They take this picture and it's just amazing because it's just not the Gonzalez's but the McMoon's, because my grandmother had Scott Irish blood and that's another interesting story of you know the settlement of Scott's in the Irish, many in textiles, many in mining. And so you see this picture and it's just an amazing thing A hundred years later, there we are on that same porch.

Marcus Arredondo: 6:16

Well, let's talk about that hundred years. So I think that was 1911, if I read correctly, was when he was being held up. Your father was born in San Antonio, if I'm not mistaken, and went on to lead in public office from 1953 to 1999, so 46 years, Is that correct? Yes, Between state representation and then federal representation, and between you and your father, you've had 51 years in the federal representation world. But for those who don't know Henry B, your father has a convention center named after him in San Antonio. So a lot of history.

Marcus Arredondo: 6:56

But there's a few anecdotes that I wanted to bring up and which are not highlighting his terrific career. But there's one he was endorsed by mariachi bands, LBJ and Cantinflas, which I find super interesting, Also helped to campaign for JFK and was in the motorcade following him when he was assassinated. But there was a remarkable story about somebody in the restaurant Earl Labels, which is a staple in San Antonio, calling him a communist and him effectively standing up and knocking his lights out. And just one word is that confirmed as correct? Is that a fair assessment of what happened?

Charlie Gonzalez: 7:38

Yeah, and it caused me a lot of heartburn because and I'll tell you why this was in the maybe mid-80s right around there. If I was in my office I'd bring you the newspaper that had it on there. And what happened is my father was having breakfast at this establishment, earl Abel's, where everyone went for breakfast, and he was there with his chief of staff and the chief of staff's brother who was on leave from the army, and his chief of staff said you know, congressman, that man over there that keeps staring, and and he called you a communist because my father was engaged in a conversation with the older brother who was here on leave. So my old man went up there. I mean, dad could be very confrontational, I would never do any of the things, but if you ever saw the size of my father's hands, you would understand he could be confrontational and he was a boxer when he was young, so you know he could take care of himself physically. He went up and he said I hear you have an issue with me or something. And the guy says yeah and said I hear you have an issue with me or something. And the guy says yeah and said I hear you call me a communist.

Charlie Gonzalez: 8:48

And the guy you know, my dad now, is 70 I forget how old he is at that point, 72 or whatever, and this is a man in his 40s. Right, he says yeah, and he's because then the god, really it was a little bit more. Not only did he call him a communist, but when my father said, what did you call him? He says well, if it walks like a duck and quacks and at that point according to my father he did not slug in, he sort of slapped him. But according to a friend of mine who represented the individual that got punched, the guy did have a black eye. So it was terrible represented the individual that got punched, the guy did have a black eye, you know. So you know it was terrible. And the reason I say that is one my dad should not have punched the guy.

Charlie Gonzalez: 9:33

But I will tell you now of all the things my father did with Kelly Air Force Base, with JFK, lbj, carter, clinton, all the things for San Antonio, with Rook Army Medical Center, I don't care what it is. You know people will come up and say, yeah, I was so proud of your dad when he hit that guy and I'm going to say, but aren't you proud when he tried to desegregate the switch, when he was busted for 22 hours against segregation are on it hot. And it's amazing because people will just attach so much significance to this thing of an older man who was very patriotic, loved his country and was so insulted to be called a communist. And I used to tell people my generation, you to be called a communist. And I used to tell people ah, you know my generation, you would be called a socialist and communist and you go.

Charlie Gonzalez: 10:30

So what? Yeah, you know big deal, you know, and it just wasn't. They weren't fighting words. You know right, for father's generation, those were fighting words. And uh, oh, that history of that incident. It put me in a very bad position because I was a county court at law judge and I had civil and criminal jurisdiction. Guess what kind of cases I heard.

Marcus Arredondo: 10:55

Assault those exact same kind yeah.

Charlie Gonzalez: 10:57

So you know everybody. The big joke was is the case going to be tried by his son? Of course it wasn't, but all my colleagues, they didn't want to be the judge that actually heard that case. It was very uncomfortable.

Marcus Arredondo: 11:10

Of course.

Charlie Gonzalez: 11:11

That would have been the last thing on my father's mind is that it created issues for me. But no, that really did happen. To this day. It's hard to really defend you. Don't raise your. I don't know if you have a son or a daughter.

Marcus Arredondo: 11:28

I do the son.

Charlie Gonzalez: 11:29

Okay, well, you know, if someone insults you or whatever it is, you know, don't resort to violence and things like that, because dad did punch the guy and it still. It lives in infamy to this day.

Marcus Arredondo: 11:44

It's a memorable image to contemplate. It sort of reminds me of I don't know if you remember when Nolan Ryan was on the mound and a 20-year-old guy came up and started to challenge him and he just beat the smithereens on him on the mound after he had finished pitching. It just sort of stands out, it's indelible in your memory. The reason I bring this up is not to bring up controversial anything or another to address how to raise children. I'm actually interested in. Those are big shoes. I think there's a common thread among your grandfather, your father yourself, of action, of diligence, a little bit of an FU mentality. You know you're going to mess with me, I'm going to do the right thing, it's something I stand up for and believe in, and so to drive this home, my ultimate question to you is what do you take away from that history? What responsibility do you think has that is imbued in your DNA in some way through what? What can you say about how that influences and shapes your perspective, both of your personal life but your public life as well?

Charlie Gonzalez: 12:51

Well, the first about public service, because my dad, all my life I was born in 1945. So dad was in politics starting in 1948. He actually lost his first race around 1948, 1950, right in there he lost his first race for the state legislature. People forget, and so that was a lesson in and of itself is don't give up, because then a short time later, in the early 50s, he becomes a city councilman and he champions things that had never been championed before, because we elected the city council at large and so you didn't have Latinos. You know representation, but he did. He really the first thing he wanted to do was integrate our city swimming pools and things like that. I mean this is this is crazy, right, but hey, 1954, brown versus the school board you know things were happening. So he always really was a champion for the people that weren't of accorded equality. You know which were minorities black and brown at that time. So you learn that.

Charlie Gonzalez: 14:04

But also you know sacrifice was that. Public service consumes you. I always tell young people that want to run for you know public service, I said, are you willing to sacrifice your family? And they think I'm going to and I go. If you want to do that job right, you will be a great public person. You probably could be a pretty bad personal family, you know, woman, because it's just all consuming and we all sacrificed. There were eight of us, eight kids and mom. Poor mom had all that responsibility, poor mom had all that responsibility. But what you learn is the value of family and how you need family to support you 100% in whatever your endeavor is. But dad made public service, like you know, the highest calling there could be second to becoming a priest, right, right. And you know you just grow up in that environment. All of us did. We knew what we were giving up, but it was worth it, because what dad was doing was seeking justice and opportunity and trying to right wrong. Dad was, you know, the quintessential Don Quixote man. I mean, he really was. But you know he brought down some big windmills and things no one ever said or thought could ever be done. So you're just around it. You can't help absorb it like osmosis or something, this thing about justice and how much injustice that there is, how much greed, how much lack of compassion, how much greed, how much lack of compassion. And so you just really believe that you're part of it, whether you want to or not, you're part of this man's vocation because you're family, you're a son, you're a daughter, you're a wife, a husband, to this endeavor, and it's a crusade. I mean. It's exciting, and I was the right age, though, marcus.

Charlie Gonzalez: 16:06

I got to travel to Austin with my father, which was only 78 miles north of San Antonio when he was in the state Senate, which, to me, are the glory days when racism was in your face, man, I mean, and the way he was treated as the first Latino elected to the Texas State Senate. You have no idea the disrespect and how they would belittle. I mean, this was really horrible, and but the brave, brave things they did to Senator State Senator Chick Kasem, the Lebanese American, the Lebanese, the Jewish community, they all lived in the same poor part of town. You know they were minorities, so they're not going to make a nicer part of town, and so it was amazing because the European Jewish families that came, the Lebanese families that came, they all spoke Spanish. It was just because they were raised in the West Side too, but Israel, of course, spoke Spanish, but for Chip Kasin and his nickname is Abraham, but they called him Chip I saw my dad filibuster on the floor of the state Senate against segregation and they won.

Charlie Gonzalez: 17:20

I mean they really were able to defeat like six out of eight segregation bills. So I don't know. I mean they really were able to defeat like six out of eight segregation bills. So I don't know. I mean you just go and you respect it Now whether you're going to follow in one's footsteps and I will tell you now anybody viewing or listening if you won, you choose a political life.

Charlie Gonzalez: 17:42

You should not make a lot of money because public service doesn't pay very well. Oh, congressman gets $174,000. People think that's a lot, but I can just tell you when you have two places to live and so on, the Texas state legislature, I forget what they used to make $4,700 a year. They met every two years. So there is no money. My dad always said if you leave public service with more money than you had when you entered public service, you probably should have been indicted. I mean there is no way you can really financially benefit. You should not, and if you do, then something's wrong.

Charlie Gonzalez: 18:27

You know, here it is. It's like a priest, the note of a bow of poverty almost, but it was just so noble I and I don't want to make it like a holy calling of some sort, but it is incredible. So you know, you just around it and you're excited by it and you're so proud of him and it's a sacrifice because you don't see him. I used to go. Everybody would come up to me and say oh, your dad was at my son's baptism, your dad was at our wedding, your dad was at this other funeral, your dad threw out the first ball at the baseball thing. Your dad and and I'd be with my brothers and we'd go. So that's where he was, no but, you didn't see him, but there are.

Charlie Gonzalez: 19:12

There are tremendous stories when you come from a political family. So we, you know, we're young, and I've got my uh, younger brother, steven, who's just a wonderful kid, and my little teensy brother I called him teensy and we would go up and put my. We would put signs up In the old days. You know this was a wooden stake with a sign and you'd bang them in or you would try to find a tree. And you know this is way back and we were over here in the southeast side of town and it had been a long day, man, but we saw this corner house with a big tree on the corner. You could put two signs on there and everyone would see them. And you would go up and you would ask the owner of the house if you could put the signs up. And so we go up there and I'd always get my little brother Stephen to do all the asking, because he was just a gutsy kid. And I'd always get my little brother Stephen to do all the asking, because he was just a gutsy kid, and he'd go excuse me, sir, what's your name? And he'd say I mean Mr Jones, and I'd say well, mr Jones, we're putting signs up for Henry B Gonzalez, for the state senate or congress, whatever it was at the time.

Charlie Gonzalez: 20:29

Our congressman was at the time and, uh, and he says, well, all right, you guys out here in the hot sun putting these signs up for this man, you must really believe in him. And we said, well, yes, sir, yes, we didn't want to tell him he's our dad, you know. Yes, sir, and he goes well, I'm gonna let you because you're working and you're sweating out here. I said he says I bet you that son of a bitch ain't paying you nothing. And we all looked at him. He said, sir, that's true, he is not paying us anything. It was all the stuff you run into. It's hilarious, man, I mean, but in in politics. Because then, when I run and this is true for everyone that's listening if your parent was in politics you will inherit only half of his friends. You will inherit all of the enemies. That's just the way it is. So you start.

Marcus Arredondo: 21:18

I want to unpack that a little bit, because that was a big question. How do you address that? How do you differentiate yourself, because those are big shoes to fill for somebody who's left such a mark on your hometown. How do you navigate that? How do you make inroads with those?

Charlie Gonzalez: 21:35

relationships. It's really, really hard. When I served in Congress now when I was a judge, there was always some offspring of a former judge who followed in their father's footsteps or their family, you know. That was just kind of the two or three Latinos when dad got there. So there were others a guy, lacey, clay, a bunch of them and we used to sit there and create stories hey well, how do you handle this? How do you handle that? And we all had the same stories. Hey well, how do you handle this? How do you handle that? And we all had the same stories.

Charlie Gonzalez: 22:26

And it was just tough because you live in the shadow of someone who was in congress for 37 years. I was already 54 years old, I'd had a career as a judge, you know, but this is something I thought I would do. Dad's health deteriorated and I just it still was there, this noble, wonderful, you know crusade and uh, but it was tough and we all had the same story and that was everyone expected you to be like your father or your parents in congress, right, and it was just really, really hard because you know dad raises to be independent. Until you're independent, then you know it's like when you're raising your son. You gotta have your own mind, you. And then when they don't do what you like, you go. How can you do that anyway? So the same thing with adult children that are in congress. But you were always judged and people would tell you you know, I'm so disappointed. You know, your dad, oh, there are just these stories that. But all in all, we just had different ways. I always believe process determines the end product, and I was a product of the judicial system where there's a lot of order and everything is heard. Then you go to Congress and whoa? Not everyone gets heard. Who's ever in the majority? If you're in the minority, they can do anything to. You can't do anything. But I still believe that you work within the system.

Charlie Gonzalez: 24:00

Dad was a lone wolf man. He was a so independent. He wasn't the biggest team player ever because I think he always felt he might have to compromise. So I had to reconcile all of that and it's really tough. Just not me, but other offspring, the Udalls, for instance. We would sit there and go, oh yeah, man, yeah, your dad, he really caused a lot of hell. Well, you're a dad, you know, and we were never going to be real hell raisers or anything. We had our own, but I mean mean it. Just all these stories.

Charlie Gonzalez: 24:36

But the worst part was when you were campaigning and and people would, uh, would, just, they would even start comparing you there. And my father had a photographic memory. If he met you today and 20 years later, he would tell you not just who you are, but what you talked about and what you were wearing. I mean, scary, I didn't have that. So when I'm campaigning, people would come up and they say I voted for your father and I want to support you. So I'd have my little pad out, you know, and I said, well, what is your name? My name is Joseph Sanchez. And I said, well, what is your name? My name is Joseph Sanchez. And I'd be writing down and he would.

Charlie Gonzalez: 25:19

They actually would say your father never had to write it down. I mean, yeah, oh man. Yeah, I mean yeah, oh, um, but I wasn't the only one. I mean, uh, and I don't mean to take up so much of your time, but I gotta tell this one story because, finally, it wasn't just me that was getting stomped on in comparison to our fathers. So my father hated NAFTA, the last thing he took off the wall when he left Congress in 1998 was a bumper sticker that said it was a bumper sticker that said vote for NAFTA. Be sorry ever after. I mean he hated it. I wasn't that way.

Marcus Arredondo: 25:57

Yeah.

Charlie Gonzalez: 25:57

I was a free trader. I was all those things that dad wasn't, because I believed differently about some things, if it was done right. Plus, other countries are developing and we're going to have to deal with that. So, anyway, there's another free trade agreement and it's the Clinton administration. The Secretary of Commerce is Bill Daley, mayor Daley's son, the most union man that has ever lived Chicago.

Charlie Gonzalez: 26:24

We're talking heavy duty, that's real labor. San Antonio unions are like this is Texas, man, you know, and I was catching hell from the unions. Bad, I mean really bad Hall everybody, jimmy Hoffa Jr, everybody, you know they hated these trade agreements. But Clinton needed the support. I told him I would. So Clinton called and says what can I do, man? You know, y'all guys are catching hell. I want to be helpful. I said, well, I've got to meet with the AF of LCO, the labor council, in about two weeks and they're going to eat me alive. And so he says I'm going to send my secretary of commerce down to San Antonio to appear with you. And I thought, oh, daily, secretary of commerce will be there with the union. You know, I'm saved, you know. So if we go to the union hall and it's packed, I'm sure it's packed, and the union guys aren't polite, you know, they tell you what they're feeling and it's wonderful because they're really great people. And so we're there and we're telling them all the benefits of this free trade agreement and they are not happy, man, they're not hearing what they want to hear. So then we say, well, let's take some questions and I'm going. Oh God, you know, daley will answer them all. He's in the cabinet. He's Mayor Daley's son. This is good, you know, I'll be okay.

Charlie Gonzalez: 27:55

And so that one hand goes up and it's this one union leader whose nickname was Creeper. That should tell you a lot. Yeah, so Creeper Elizondo. And I look at Creeper and I know this guy's going to tear into us man. And I said Creeper, you got a question. And he gets up no, I've got a statement. He says your father would have never wrote it this way. Oh, you know, oh. And everybody's going yeah, yeah, yeah. And then suddenly it's like this light bulb goes off. I could see the light bulb going off in Creeper's head. And then suddenly he goes like this and he goes and he points a finger, it's Secretary Daley. He says and neither would your father. And I thought, yes, fast forward. At&t was headquartered here. Bill Daley leaves the Clinton administration and he becomes a big AT&T executive and he's here in the office. Bill Daley leaves the Clinton administration and he becomes a big AT&T executive and he's here in the office. I go up to see him when he's visiting and I said well, how are you doing? You know, he says fine. I said well, welcome back to San Antonio. And he says how can I ever forget San Antonio? I remember that union meeting with you. It was wonderful, man. So you have these moments, but it still was very difficult because it is definitely a vote that my father would not have cast. And was my father right? Was I right? You know, the longer you know it's the old thing about the more years on Earth it's amazing how much your parents were right. But I mean right the thing about the older you get, it's amazing how much smarter your parents get. You know it's in our question Some of that stuff now where you know abuses of the system. But it's really tough. Your parents and inspiration. It's like if your parents are schoolteacher, you know you value the profession. You might be a teacher. Politics can be very addictive and so you have that. But it's a battle, you know. I mean it's a and a lot of people expect you to be exactly as your parent and you can't be. You know. I mean you just can't and it's OK. I don't. I don't think my dad ever thought it was OK, but you know what can I say?

Marcus Arredondo: 30:23

You know I wanted to ask, though I'm trying to remember the phrase John Meacham, who is a, a historian and writer, talks about the portrait test for politicians, so which is, effectively you walk down the halls and you see these photographs of Lincoln or Clinton or whomever, and what phrase would you attribute to that person? What did they stand for? So you know, lincoln would be the Gettysburg Address, for example, and what he did in the Civil War. And you know you try and use that as a well one. I don't mean to offend and I don't think it's a negative thing, but I think a lot of politicians are, have some vanity in there, and I think the vanity can actually serve a very productive purpose being what side of history do I want to be on? And so you know, looking back on that, I think one thing that stands out when you're talking about your, your dad, voting to change the segregation rules, that's the right side of history.

Marcus Arredondo: 31:24

You know, time will tell. So even if you vote on something, things get more. They turn into something different later on. And in that vein, I wanted to sort of bring your experience in Congress to sort of what the state of affairs are now, because from my recollection, there's always been division among the polarization of parties, but I think today's world seems the chasm seems far greater. There's a lot more tribalism. There seems to be less common ground. I've read multiple interviews of you referencing a lot of productive meetings and fond relationships with those on the other side of the aisle. What do you think has changed and what do you think people are missing now?

Charlie Gonzalez: 32:12

You know it's real strange. And you said something about ego, vanity and legacy. You got to believe in yourself first of all. For sure, this is brutal. I mean, look, you've got to even when I was a judge. I mean, you know you get reversed. That's the worst thing that can happen to you. But you're not in the public eye being pummeled. You know, uh, your intentions being questioned, your motives being questioned, uh, your ability, your competency, your intelligence, I mean you know. I mean people come down. I mean it's bad man and uh. So you have to have a healthy ego, otherwise you don't have any confidence. You have to have confidence. You have to have confidence and you have to have a North Star. You always have to remember, no matter what the obstacle, you know that there is a destination point that stands for justice and equality and truth and everybody is trying to distract you.

Charlie Gonzalez: 33:15

I guarantee you everyone's telling you be so bad and it's not the perfect bill piece of legislation but it will, on the whole, be beneficial and so you just don't vote no or whatever it is. I mean you have to really weigh the pros and the cons. When I started in 1999, you know we were in the minority Of the 14 years that I was there, only four years was I in the majority and it was the only time I felt really empowered. Later. But in the beginning, 1999, I was in the minority but you had wonderful Republican chairs of committee which I sat. I mean Jim Leach Iowa incredible man. He just passed away.

Charlie Gonzalez: 34:08

Anyone watching this read his obituary, read the story in the New York Times or the Post or whatever. Who this man was as a Republican and you're going to say he was a member of the Republican Party. You're not believe it. Mike Oxley, from Ohio Great. I mean I look back as fondly on my service on their committees with as much fondness as when it was the Democratic chair.

Charlie Gonzalez: 34:39

That's incredible, because when we took the House back now we're looking at 2006, the world was starting to change, really change, and then, of course, we got wiped out in 2008, and Obama comes in. You know, I think let's see the four years. I was there 2004,. We took it, 2006,. We maintained it 2008,. The world, I mean 2008, 2006, 2008,. And then 2010 came and it was over.

Charlie Gonzalez: 35:13

What is missing? What happened and why do things get so polarized? It's almost like, you see, the demarcation point with the election of Obama and I don't know why it struck so much fear in so many people that they were being displaced, replaced, and there were a couple of writers that made reference to that. That if you saw Obama, that was actual in your face. America is changing All of a sudden, man, there was insecurity and fear and people prayed on it and the only way they could win is to fan those flames of dissension and discord and fear and insecurity.

Charlie Gonzalez: 36:05

And you had the Tea Party come in. You've got to start. People forget how all this it's Tea Party and redistricting, of course, which you know you get primaried out. That's the problem redistricting, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican. The Republicans are the greatest abusers of the system. I'm not saying Democrats are saints about things, but how they corrupted the process, or saints about things, but how they corrupted the process.

Charlie Gonzalez: 36:40

So when that came on, it no longer allowed Republican members like the ones that I just referenced. Yeah, they weren't going to survive in the leadership roles anymore. Even John Boehner didn't even fit in at the end. John Boehner and I have the greatest respect for you know, john Boehner, speaker Boehner and he treated me, you know, decently. It never would have happened again. And so what will happen? Fear and insecurity, and what the Republicans thought oh well, this is great, we'll regain the majority, we'll get the Senate back, we'll cripple Obama and everything else. What they didn't realize, it's the old thing. You know the story of riding the tiger, and he devours everything and clears the path for you, but you can never get off because the tiger's going to eat you. And the Republican Party got eaten by the tiger. So that's where we are today.

Marcus Arredondo: 37:43

Is that tiger? You're referring to the Tea Party, Tea Party.

Charlie Gonzalez: 37:48

Extreme, extreme right. Never in a million years. Even some of the more established republicans that thought well, you know, of course we're going to utilize the tea party anger and energy and organization, but they didn't realize what it was spawning. Yeah, and that's where we are today. Redistricting has a lot to do with what happened, what has happened, you know, in the Senate it's different, of course, because you know those are two letters for every state, no matter what. But it's really quite sad to see where it is today.

Charlie Gonzalez: 38:25

Everything became a political message. Everything became part of an extended campaign to regain the majority, maintain the majority, win the presidency and the other thing and I hate to go on on this thing because people just their eyes glaze over when you start talking about these things they took things out of regular order. In other words, it was a piece of legislation. It goes to the appropriate committee of jurisdiction. It starts off with a subcommittee, then it goes to the full committee, then it goes to the rules committee, then it ends up. So the only you're so overwhelmed is a member of Congress. You're only really relevant and legitimate when there's a bill in your committee, because you're charged with having more knowledge than the other members of Congress, you should know more than 380 or 390 other members of Congress. That's your responsibility, that's what you owe your colleagues. It's all gone and just the grievances. The grievances In 2008,.

Charlie Gonzalez: 39:35

That's the first thing. And overall, you know, you start thinking in terms of these fears and anxieties. And how do you reverse all that? Well, you go backwards, you know, to a time that people believe they felt more secure, more relevant, not fear of being replaced. I think it's called make America great again.

Marcus Arredondo: 40:02

So actually that's interesting. You bring that up because that was something I was thinking about, which is that you know the way we. You know, in the 50s and 60s there were three networks. There was one newspaper that you read locally. That was sort of the standing tower of truth that you abided by.

Marcus Arredondo: 40:21

Fast forward to today's world where there are hundreds of pieces of information being digested through an innumerable number of media sites, all being interpreted, diced in different ways, spun. You know, I get a little bit frustrated with both sides and how they present things so definitively, which I get. There needs to be some strength behind their statements. But you can take basically any statistic and spin it by highlighting certain aspects of those statistics to a certain light, and spin it one way or the other. And I guess I'm just to boil this down I'm curious how you would advise today's voters to sort of take into account where the truth lies. And I'll just preface it by saying I think a lot of people don't take the responsibility seriously of educating themselves. They might read headlines, they might witness a news clip, either through YouTube or on what might be questionably called a news network, but the reality and I don't want to mean to be touching a touchy subject, but even the Hamas-Israeli war has centuries of history, and so to encapsulate it in these little tidbits is unjust to the people who have been impacted for centuries by the history that's gone through that.

Marcus Arredondo: 41:37

So the reason I bring that up is, you know, when we're faced with making a decision on not just who to vote for, but especially in California, where we have multiple props, where we're having to vote on individual items of legislation which I have a separate opinion on, what do you think should be the governing principles in how we assess the information, how we vote? Some people vote with their heart, some people vote on their wallet, some people vote on their security. Do you have comments? And you mentioned something earlier that I want to just touch on. This is important. I want you to talk about this, so don't shy away from this, because I think your experience of being in the judicial system and the legislative system you've seen the sausage, how the sausage is made. It's rare to have access to somebody with that level of insight, and I think it's really important, not just for me but for the people who are listening and watching to this, to take into account how somebody who's been on the inside would advise those having to vote, which is all of our responsibility.

Charlie Gonzalez: 42:42

Well, you have to fact check today. Okay, Let me say I'm going to start with what I believe is the basis for arriving at the truth. As a lawyer, I know this for an absolute fact. It's human nature, so we know this, and the law has to make sure that we take human nature into account. So what instills responsibility? What instills accountability? And it's very simple liability. No consequence to not telling the truth. Disinformation and disinformation no consequence. The legal system can't touch you. But if you're CBS, NBC, the traditional New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, that is legacy media that still gets sued If they print something that they know is not true. Are there militia? We have that area of law.

Charlie Gonzalez: 43:52

When it comes to the internet, we got it wrong at the very beginning. We thought, in order to flourish, to make it really available to all the people, not just to digest it or as a source of information. Everyone can be a source of information. We shield them from liability. You're not going to see it. I can go online, say all sorts of stuff and now just Charlie Gonzalez doing it. No one's going to notice. But if I have a platform or it's Twitter, I say Twitter just because I know, Elon Musk probably hates it when he's talking about the deal that he cut with Twitter.

Charlie Gonzalez: 44:39

When you look at X and if you look at Facebook, if you look at all these things, there is no liability, Right, and you know why? Because they're saying we didn't say it. Well, there's anonymity too. There's message out there. We're a platform. We don't have to be responsible. We don't have to be accountable. We're not liable for anything. We don't have any real skin in this game. We can promote falsehood day in and day out. What are you going to do about it? I didn't say it. You know it was Charlie Gonzalez, some guy from Bexar County, San Antonio. We just posted it. I don't know what we do about that. It's one of those things that that genie's out of the bottle, Yep, and it's very frightening. And every survey you know this every survey will tell you that the majority of Americans get their news from where.

Marcus Arredondo: 45:41

Social media. The internet, yeah, social media, yeah, social media.

Charlie Gonzalez: 45:45

It just. And when I got to Congress in 99, since about 94, working its way up the World Wide Web, what is this? This is internet. What is that Digital? What does that mean? I mean it was developing.

Charlie Gonzalez: 46:00

We didn't even have smartphones right, and for a long time we just had beepers, it would you know. Time for a vote, right, right? And then all of a sudden, this thing called BlackBerry. Oh my gosh man, blackberry. Can you believe we have Blackberries? Fast forward, just a few years. We don't have to go that many years. The smartphones everything changed. What was Facebook? What the heck is that man? What is this Twitter?

Charlie Gonzalez: 46:28

And I was on a great committee, telecommunications and energy subcommittee. I wish I could have stayed on it, because that was the beginning. I was there at the beginning of all this when maybe we could have had a different structure of some sort that would have instilled greater responsibility from these individuals. And then things got monetized, because you can't just give everything for free, so you have the profit thing in there. But how do we dial it back? I wish I had an answer other than you change the laws and you can resort to the courts, but you would be overwhelmed. Courts couldn't handle all this stuff. So I just think is that you've got to find your most legitimate and credible sources of information, and I would say, start with people that can get sued for what they say. That's great advice To me.

Charlie Gonzalez: 47:25

It sounds crazy, right, and so very conservative publications. It can be the Wall Street Journal, or it can be the New York Times, or it can be the Wall Street Journal, or it can be the New York Times, or it can be the networks. I will tell you, some of the best is always going to be public broadcasting system and it's going to be the NPR. I mean they really are. I mean people would say, oh, those are just liberal, or whatever it is. But you listen carefully. They'll have, you know, a counter narrative by someone. They'll always introduce something, but sometimes you know, I mean, how do you? This is weird, how do you have a counter? You know, I mean it is just flat lie. How do you justify it? How do you?

Charlie Gonzalez: 48:21

We used to have every year they used to give a little prize, like for the best joke based on something that happens on the floor. And Joanne Emerson God bless her soul she had the best joke one year. This is years and years and years ago, and it was a joke at that time. So the joke is real quick, I'll tell you. So she's at one podium, on the House floor, and the opponent is on the other side, and the other side is just misrepresenting everything Lie, lie, lie, lie.

Charlie Gonzalez: 48:49

So Joanne, she made this up. Everything, lie, lie, lie, lie. So Joanne, she made this up. Joanne says I'm sorry, I can't take this anymore, you are just lying. And the other member of Congress says yes, I know that, but hear me out. Here we are today, hear me out, and it doesn't matter what you say, it's just, it's really scary, though. I mean, my wife and I have this conversation all the time. She's a seventh grade language arts teacher, you've got the kids, and that I mean. It is addictive, and I guess maybe I'm just lucky that here at the tail end of my lifespan, I enjoyed, you know finding truth a lot easier than it is today.

Marcus Arredondo: 49:41

I think that's a lot of. There's a lot of great advice in there. Something you touched on which I wanted to take in a different direction was responsibility, and then we can start to wrap this up because I know we're coming up on time. But one thing in my research I found was that you had a constituent that was a former Mexican, turned US citizen Army veteran that would bring checks to your office to help retire the national debt and in that reference you mentioned that is why they are called the greatest generation and I think inherent in that is a. You know it was a God-duty country in some different order, but I don't find that same unity or responsibility to the country, some duty to your fellow citizen or neighbor, as prevalent now in today's world. What do you think changed? Is there any way to get us back that you see?

Charlie Gonzalez: 50:31

You know, if you think about it, when we're confronted with a crisis that doesn't recognize regions, political parties, races, ethnicity, you would think a common enemy will bring us together. Right, I thought the pandemic was going to do that. Yeah, think about about that. If a pandemic didn't do that, do you really think you can come as a nation and we should have done a lot better with with with the pandemic, but people forget it was the unknown, and sure, we lost 1 point two million people, or whatever, and this is crazy. But suddenly you are infringing on my freedom.

Charlie Gonzalez: 51:17

I understand that people don't want to wear masks, they don't get vaccinated, but there was no sense of well, maybe we do that for the greater good. It's a precaution. Now, if you have a religious objection, I understand that too. A lot of people didn't have a religious-based objection. It was really more political. It was the weak thing, and people found a way to even take that issue and divide us. That is crazy. And now you think, for one second, short of a foreign nation coming on our soil, what will unite us? I don't know, anymore.

Charlie Gonzalez: 51:56

I have no idea. A sense of community, oh gosh. No, I mean, we take pride in being different. You know we don't look for what we have in common, it's how are we so different? I mean, you know, california catches hell for everything. Right, texas doesn't want to be a California, california doesn't want to be a Texas. But you know, if you really thought about it, we have a lot of things that we should cooperate with across state lines. The thing with immigration is insane, look at it. So I don't have that answer, mark, and I do think, and I've been blessed. Let me tell you, there's been some challenges in my life. There's been some heartache, there's been tragedy, there's been all of that. But all in all, I feel real, real fortunate, and I'm wondering how many people really feel that fortunate.

Charlie Gonzalez: 52:57

We live in a grievance society. It's half full man, it is half full. And I'm trying to figure. Everyone is angry, everyone has a grievance. No one is responsible for it, it's the other guy. Until we have leaders that come out and you see, the leaders come together and say we've got these differences, but we are going to compromise, we're going to negotiate, we're going to come out with something. Oh, you know neither side just romps on the other and prevails 100 percent. It's give and take, and we come out with something that benefits as many people regardless. Yeah, where do we have? Who are they? You know, I'll just say it. It definitely is not someone of Trump's nature. By his very nature he isn't built that way, you know, and this is really scary. I mean, it's really, really frightening.

Marcus Arredondo: 53:58

Well, and this will be the round out, the questions on politics specifically. But you had mentioned in one of the interviews you alluded to the consequences of Citizens United and I'm curious if you see ripple effects from that. Still, if you, which is, there is no question, the number of deaths that were associated with COVID specifically, but there were underlying issues in a large number of cases, that being obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and it seems to me like that would be the number one thing to protect our national security. Our future GDP is to protect the health of its citizens, and I find it so fascinating and frustrating that our government isn't doing more to help without taking rights away, but at least incentivizing healthier lifestyles, healthier behaviors to help the productivity of our own citizens. And maybe I'm off on that, but I'm curious if you have any feedback.

Charlie Gonzalez: 55:06

I'm trying to write some things down real quick. Citizens United is the most poorly reasoned judicial decision in the history of the United States.

Marcus Arredondo: 55:18

If I can interrupt, would you mind just clarifying what that is for the audience who may not remember, and as lawyers, we understand.

Charlie Gonzalez: 55:41

The reason you're a corporation is to insulate yourself from personal liability so that you can create jobs. It was never, never intended to really make you the same as an individual. It's the total opposite. But nevertheless, I want people. What year was it? Was it 2010? And I think it was the State of the Union, yeah. And when President Obama talks about Citizens United, that had just been decided and he tells you what's going to happen and you have Alito shaking his head no, I'd love to see if Alito's still shaking his head. No, because money corrupts and what it opened up now. You just saw what happened this past election. How can one individual give $140, $150 million? But this has been going on and it's been on steroids and so it's money.

Charlie Gonzalez: 56:36

That goes directly to the candidate, that you can limit, but it goes to the super PACs. They have money. Money is power. But what if the medium of getting the message out it's no longer just three networks and three major newspapers or something? And what if the same people with all that money control the medium? Where do you think we're going? This is, I mean, it's absolutely frightening.

Charlie Gonzalez: 57:05

On health, yeah, first of all, if you had a preexisting condition of some sort, or if you were over the age of 62, 65, the virus will probably kill you, right, and we should have concentrated on that and we did, actually did actually. I mean who you think we're on to, all the ventilators and such, but that I mean really terrible health style. I mean, why do we uh, you know when we were finally trying to get, uh, just full disclosure on the contents of food, how that translates to different sugar, calories and stuff. That was monumental. You have no idea how hard that was. Just find it when you go and you try to talk to people about healthier menus. We don't want to shut down a business. They don't want a healthier business. People don't get to shut down a business. They don't want a healthier people don't get addicted to salads. You know you can't.

Charlie Gonzalez: 58:08

So once you, you have unlimited amounts of money, and then the same people that control the media, and then those are the ones that dictate policy. Those are the ones that dictate policy nationwide. But it starts off local, goes to state, then national, and you have a business model that is endangered or in jeopardy. I sell food that doesn't do a darn thing for you, health-wise. As a matter of fact, it's really bad for you. But you do create jobs. It's a moneymaker, and so guess why All that money? The way you communicate, the way you advertise, you're never going to be successful pushing back on these things and it's up to the individual consumer. But consumers really believe that if you can sell this over the counter, it must be okay.

Marcus Arredondo: 59:10

Right.

Charlie Gonzalez: 59:12

That's when government says it's not okay, you don't like government. Barney Frank always said government is just another name for the people. And if, somehow, if you've got it out there and this was about a message for the people, and if somehow you know, if you've got it out there and this was about a message for the people, the government true, but we've got all the scientists and and all the dietitians and everything else telling you that this is really bad for your family. Diabetes, I don't have to tell you. In the Latino community it's an epidemic. It's that you know, and it's really scary. And there was.

Charlie Gonzalez: 59:52

The other thing, too, is members of Congress have to be willing to lose their office by taking a stand and doing the right thing. I don't see that anymore. Do you have any take on term limits? Term limits? You know, my father was there 37 years, I was there 14 years, 51 years. Of course. John Dingell and his father were there probably 75 years. Then his wife took the seat, so that probably can be 100 years in the Dingell family, as long as the voters want to send you back.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:00:27

And what's the big advantage to incumbency? It's not that anymore. It's how things have been redistricted. It doesn't give people an opportunity to vote for someone that might have a broader view of policy, that is just playing to that majority in order to survive the primary. You can't do that. I mean, I'm not at a loss for things, but we could do something about Citizens United, by the way Congress can. They're not going to do. We could do something about Citizens United, by the way Congress can. They're not going to do it.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:01:13

Redistricting Supreme Court said you can gerrymander for political advantage. I mean, get real here. Yeah, and that's what scares me. I have one last thought. We've always survived because there is a branch of government that was really independent and as long as you abide by their ruling and their decision, that was the judicial branch, which is I have a real affinity for it. But I think the judicial branch in the United States and the federal system has been co-opt and you have so many appointees that are really almost like political operatives, and that is the most frightening thing to me in the twilight of my years.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:01:54

So I'll bring this in for a close here and I'm going to sort of tether two questions. But I've heard several listeners find these conversations very inspirational. But there are a couple that are in their third and fourth quarters of life who have said it's so inspiring. But I don't know. You know, I wish I was younger to take advantage of it. And as somebody who's got a lot of seasoning and is highly, highly productive, you're on the cusp of being 80, correct? Huh yeah, Cinco de, yeah, cinco de mayo, Cinco de mayo. And you have remained very productive, very engaged. What advice do you give, not the younger people, but the people in the second half of their life, trying to identify purpose and meaning and drive? What advice would you give to those people and I know I'll just end it there with you left Congress 12 years ago and you've been as productive on those last 12 years as you were preceding that, maybe hopefully with a little bit more sleep and less travel. But how did you navigate that off ramp and what advice would you give for those people?

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:03:02

Well, you know, you bring something up. That's very, very interesting. I just had a conversation with someone who's my age who said please, you know I can't. I introduced him to someone this morning who runs an organization and he said, please, I can't help. I know we said something about exchanging my contact information. I don't want him to drop out, but he's dropping out, okay, because he doesn't have much time. I understand that. And to all the people that you just described don't drop out. There's still something you can do. Find that one public official that you know is honest and hardworking and sincere, and you can tell who they are, how they respond to your communication.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:03:50

When you go to the town hall meetings, you know one thing is you get older, there's a little more wisdom and you can judge character You're invaluable by your mere life experiences. You're bringing something to the table that a younger person doesn't have. It's not the younger person's fault. So my plea to them is don't drop out. You have wisdom, you have experience, experience. You can share some of that. But be supportive. Contribute $5. Contribute $10.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:04:28

I know you're going to get a lot of solicitations. It's going to drive you nuts, but be part of that. Put that sign up, put that bumper sticker. Still, the social media stuff. Now guess what? You can be an influencer. It's scary, isn't it? But you really can. And there are, you know. There are people that will help you with all that. They're going to be younger because they understand.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:04:50

I can't even, you know, deal with my iPhone anymore. It's gotten so complicated. But don't give up. Keep up with the technology as much as you can, with the technology as much as you can. You know I have friends that will not text. I mean, you know, that's sure.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:05:07

Uh, but I, I, you know you still have so much to give, and if you don't give it, then all of those, the younger generations, will have to make the same mistakes we did. Why do they have to learn by making mistakes, you know? So that's what I would tell them uh, you're still valuable, oh yeah, but you're only you're. You're only as valuable as your involvement. You know, yeah, and and I will say this, if you don't challenge your mind every day, if you don't read and keep up, bad things will happen to you, and you don't want that. Keep up, bad things will happen to you and you don't want that. You can live many more years in real great health if you stay engaged. So if you don't do that with the politicians or whatever, do that with friends and your family. Keep your mind active, get out of the house. Get out of the house. Turn the television off, force yourself to go over there with your silver sneakers at the local YMCA and I'm telling you you will be a better person and a happier person. That's great advice.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:06:16

Any closing words, any last thoughts, anything you think I may have missed.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:06:20

Yeah, just not to forget the nation that we are and people are trying to put a whole different spin on. You know, we're going to make America great again. I mean, since when has America not been great? You know, being a bully doesn't make you great. Might makes right is not a good formula, whatever.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:06:45

Let's go back In our country. It was so imperfect from the beginning and the founding fathers knew about how imperfect it was. And then we are an experiment and we continue. We're not that old but we have to improve. We can't go backwards and don't be so fearful of being replaced and displaced, because there are changes out there. You know. Welcome change that which improves our lives, and start thinking in terms of your fellow citizen, as someone that you share the same aspirations. You want good health, you want financial security, you want a safe neighborhood, you want all these things and we can all have them. It doesn't mean that someone's success somehow means failure for you. It's black and white. It just isn't that failure for you, it's black and white. It just isn't that. Uh, but in the, in the spirit of community again, but to stay involved somehow, just keep, keep going, keep, remain, just like I say, the magic word to me is engagement and activities, and keeping your mind going and knowing that you still have a contribution to make. You're never, ever, ever too old.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:08:08

This is wonderful, Congressman. Thank you so much for being on. This has been one of my favorite conversations.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:08:14

Thank you very much for taking the time and I'm sorry if I go over some of this stuff.

Marcus Arredondo: 1:08:17

This was terrific All right, it was terrific.

Charlie Gonzalez: 1:08:20

All right, thank you.