Scales Of Success Podcast

#35 - The Spiral, the Comeback, and the Truth About Wealth with Mark Kenney

• Marcus Arredondo

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In this raw and revealing episode of Scales of Success, Marcus connects with Mark Kenney, who opens up about scaling fast, losing big, and the emotional toll that nearly broke him. He shares unfiltered insights on battling depression, rebuilding identity, and finding peace through faith, family, and fitness. From navigating failed deals to redefining success, Mark offers hard-won wisdom for anyone walking through a storm. Whether you're an entrepreneur, investor, or simply human, this episode is a powerful reminder that your worth isn't defined by your wins  and that healing often begins with the simplest things.

Mark Kenney is a numbers-driven real estate investor with a heart for people and a mission to help others build lasting wealth. As the Co-Founder and CEO of Think Multifamily, he has syndicated over 120 multifamily transactions spanning 18,000+ units and more than $1 billion in value. Mark works with both accredited and non-accredited investors, offering ethical, well-vetted opportunities rooted in deep experience, data, and diligence.

Get in touch with Mark Kenney:
Website: https://thinkmultifamily.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-kenney-566065142/

Episode highlights:
(1:48) Seeing life differently after loss
(4:17) Redefining what really matters
(8:04) Family, faith, and the turning point
(12:10) Facing depression 
(15:39) Getting unstuck: Steps that helped
(20:44) Lessons from failing 20 deals
(26:11) Protecting yourself in partnerships
(34:31) Fatherhood, guilt, and redemption
(39:50) Rethinking wealth and peace of mind
(43:09) How to scale?
(46:57) Fitness, food, and mental resilience
(53:34) Simple habits that save your sanity
(54:22) Outro

Connect with Marcus


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Note: The transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

Mark Kenney

(0:00) It's helped me reflect on what's really important. (0:04) It's not stuff, don't get me wrong, I think people, it's fine if you want stuff, you like stuff. (0:08) I mean, that's fine, right?(0:11) But that's not what you should be striving for at the expense of your family, because at the end of the day, all that stuff can be taken away easily.

Marcus Arredondo

(0:22) Today's guest is Mark Kenney, real estate investor, entrepreneur, and founder of Think Multifamily, who went from managing $2 billion in assets to navigating a personal and professional downturn unlike any other. (0:33) When the market shifted, so did his world. (0:35) And for the first time, Mark found himself battling depression, sleepless nights, and a crisis of identity.(0:41) He shares how his workout routine that once symbolized success later became his lifeline, why his sister's unannounced visit may have saved his life, and what it took to claw back a sense of stability. (0:51) He also opens up about how he rebuilt the small habits like daily walks and journaling, and why integrity, not success, is now the metric he lives by. (0:59) His journey is about rediscovering stability, surrender, and the discipline to start again.(1:04) Let's start the show. (1:06) Mark Kenney, welcome. (1:08) Thanks for coming on.

Mark Kenney

(1:09) Thanks for having me, Marcus. (1:10) I'm glad to be on.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:11) It's good to see you again. (1:16) The last time, so I wanted to start real quick. (1:19) When I first met you in, it's 2025 now, I think it was 2018, maybe somewhere there, 2017, 2018, somewhere in that range.(1:28) You and I both had less gray hair. (1:30) That's to start.

Mark Kenney

(1:31) You know, I tried dyeing it, and it kind of irritated my scalp, so I'm like, I don't know.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:37) So I just, I'm gonna start it broad. (1:40) How do you see yourself differently now than you did then? (1:45) And we can talk about what, that's sort of a springboard into it.

Mark Kenney

(1:48) Kind of starting there, you know, I mean, kind of starting now, kind of getting into larger real estate transactions. (1:56) I would say, fast forward, you know, I had a, I didn't have the amount of obstacles that I would have thought, and basically I had to overcome, is what I'm trying to say, essentially. (2:10) I never would have envisioned those obstacles to the level that they were.(2:14) Meaning, if you would have, you know, said, hey, fast forward to 2023, here are the things you're gonna be dealing with, we probably wouldn't be having the conversation. (2:23) I probably would have bowed out. (2:26) You know?(2:27) Yeah, yeah. (2:28) So that's probably the biggest thing, and then overall, just perspective. (2:33) I think it's partly as you, as you get older and you reflect and you do have obstacles, some cases significant, you start reflecting on what really is important in life, and what do I need to do differently, and not do differently.(2:53) To really kind of conclude that, hey, I'm, you know what, some things I thought were really important to me, really aren't. (3:00) And some things that are, you know, you get really, really busy, you're working like crazy, and you neglect certain things, whatever it might be. (3:07) Could be family, could be health, could be those things, and you know, and you kind of get into that mode where you're like, I'm just going, going, going, and never stopping, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh man, it's something that's gonna force you to potentially stop, or at least reflect and change.(3:24) If you don't change, in my case, if I didn't really pivot, I would have been in a pretty bad spot.

Marcus Arredondo

(3:30) So change, some we seek, some is hoisted upon us. (3:34) Let's talk about the important things. (3:36) Like what have you, and for the benefit of the audience, Mark and I have been partners in real estate investments for a few years now, and the state of the market in 2025, when people ask, is less bad than it once was, but I'd hesitate to use more positive terms than that.(3:55) So we've gone through some bumps along the road, and Mark has been a foxhole partner with me in there. (4:04) So just to give some frame of reference for the audience, but Mark, I was gonna, I'm curious, those important things, like can you give us an example? (4:11) Because I have some of these in my own head, but I'm curious what you came across over the last few years.

Mark Kenney

(4:16) I mean, the important things for me really come down to, I'm actually a pretty simple guy. (4:22) I mean, there are a couple of things I like here and there, but I don't have a lot of interests, I wish I had more, but I don't. (4:27) I'm just simple.(4:28) I mean, I like going for a walk with my wife. (4:30) I like spending time with my daughter, which is not that much anymore, because she's 17. (4:37) I like just chilling and watching a movie that you don't have to think about going out here and there, but it's all, you know, the grandiose type things.(4:46) I mean, I'm a simple eater. (4:47) I cook all my own food and do all that stuff, and we used to go to really expensive, I'd say fancy restaurants. (4:55) I'm thinking like, why?(4:56) Like, I don't even like it that much. (4:58) You know what I mean? (4:58) It's kind of a waste.(4:59) If that's your thing, that's your thing, right? (5:02) But it's really, you know, as an overall perspective, kind of as a higher level, you know, I've always been, you know, I say always, for a long time I've been into fitness, like physical fitness, right? (5:16) And really in my life, I may have had certain things happen where, you know, they seemed bad, but when all this stuff started going down where, you know, you have vendors screaming at you, you have, you know, investors that are angry and upset, you have potential lawsuits from vendors and things like that, right?(5:37) Then you start, you know, for me, started looking and getting more into some of the mental health things, which I never really experienced before. (5:49) And, you know, so I was in my fifties when I, I'm still in fifties, but, you know, first time I really, MSA didn't have certain things here or there. (5:56) And I always felt like, hey, you know, I can overcome anything no matter what, and what's wrong with people.(6:03) And we've had, you know, historically people in our, in my family that had kind of some mental health issues. (6:12) And even my wife's family, like pretty significant, but I'm kind of like, you know, what's the deal? (6:17) Just to get over it, you know, over, I don't know what your problem is.(6:20) I don't know what your, why do you have anxiety? (6:22) Why do you have stress? (6:23) Why are you worrying about the future?(6:26) Well, those are the things that I started wrestling with and still do to some case, right? (6:31) If you look at what I was going through and, you know, you have regrets, like how could I be so dumb to do these things? (6:38) And it's all like, you know, would have, should have, could have.(6:41) And now it's like, well, what if, what's going to happen in the future? (6:44) And I'm not saying, you know, hey, just because other people are doing the same things, but there, people don't want to talk about this, but there are tons of people out there right now having issues. (6:54) They don't want to talk about it.(6:55) I mean, there was, I heard a stat and it's hard to verify that, you know, 96% of all the syndicated debt, you know, over that period of time that we're really talking about was floating rate debt. (7:05) So, you know, okay, well 96% of us are idiots, I guess, right? (7:09) I mean, I'm trying to be whatever, but, but then you just look at, well, I can't control certain things.(7:14) And for me really, what the biggest thing that got me, you know, and, you know, it's talking about things being important was family. (7:23) And, you know, unfortunately most of my family is all in Michigan and, you know, I'm here in Dallas, but, you know, I mean, transparently, you know, a year ago, 13 months ago, wherever it was, you know, I was, you know, not doing great, you know, and walk out of my bedroom and my sister from Michigan standing in my living room unannounced, didn't even know she was coming. (7:47) And I'm like, she's like, I'm just here to see you, you know, and then the next day my wife was like, you're going to Michigan.(7:52) Like you have a four o'clock flight today and then your sister's taking you. (7:56) And I'm like, no, I'm not. (7:58) She's like, yes, you are.(7:59) I'm like, no, I'm not. (8:01) But looking back at that, that's what I needed. (8:05) I needed to get out of the environment I was in.(8:08) And my circumstances didn't change, but the environment changed. (8:11) And then, you know, whether you have faith or not, my, you know, my family, big, you know, my mom's a prayer warrior. (8:16) My sisters are praying for me and listen to a lot of, you know, just the scriptures and things like that, whatever, but that helped me.(8:23) That's what helped me in getting out of that. (8:26) And then also not letting it, well, you can let it easily steal your joy and peace. (8:34) There's no question about it.(8:35) And I still have, you know, struggles with that sometimes, but not letting it define you, you know, is your, I think we had a conversation, are you being defined by who you are, what you do, you're a father, you're a husband or, you know, a wife, or, you know, I work for whatever, it's a certain company, this is what I do. (8:58) And, cause those things can all be taken away. (9:00) I mean, I don't say overnight, but almost overnight.(9:03) And one health issue can totally change your perspective too and I, you know, I stopped doing some things for just a short period of time that, you know, I work out all the time, wasn't missing, but a couple of weeks there, I'm like, I couldn't even, you know, couldn't even work out, which for me is a pretty big deal. (9:19) And that was one of the negotiation things, my wife said, you're not coming back, you start working out again. (9:24) Cause she knew, she knew that was, you know, something that was important to me and I wasn't eating, wasn't sleeping, you know, all those things.(9:33) So simple things to me are important, but it really comes down to anything that can be taken away, shouldn't be that important to you.

Marcus Arredondo

(9:44) I'm gonna have to think about that one. (9:45) The one thing that you're saying that resonates now, there were some parallels. (9:49) I mean, I was going through a pretty difficult time at the exact period you were, in part because of situations we were in together.(9:58) And identity is something that I'm glad that you sort of mentioned that, because it is something that I have thought a lot about because it's a philosophical endeavor until you're actually in the weeds and you realize that there's something very practical about really identifying who you're gonna be and, you know, who you're gonna be defined as. (10:19) And one thing I kept going back to, even starting this podcast to a large degree, is it's very easy to become hyper-myopic on one particular circumstance, one particular podcast, one particular test, one deal, so on and so forth. (10:33) But in reality, which is not always easy to see in the nadir of being hit from all sides, it's a death by a thousand cuts, is ultimately when you meet your maker, you're being evaluated as a body of work, not exclusively one moment in time.(10:58) And it sort of allowed me to give myself a little bit more grace maybe, some broader perspective. (11:05) And that's like, you know, again, to anybody who's going through a struggle, whether it's outright, you know, I don't know if I would say I was depressed, but if somebody said I was depressed, I certainly wouldn't have negated that, right? (11:18) I mean, I don't know how else to say that, but in going through that, I realized it's easy to say we're judged by the body of work, but it's really hard in that moment to actually come to that realization.(11:35) There is like a, to your point about sort of escaping your environment, I'm curious what your take is on, do you think that there's some maybe grieving process that needs to take place? (11:47) There's some moment of, you got to sort of let the wave pommel you for a little while. (11:54) You can fight while you're underneath in the undertow, or you can sort of just let it beat you until you surface, because you know you'll surface at some point.(12:05) I'm sort of going in a few different directions here, but I think you can understand sort of where I'm going with this.

Mark Kenney

(12:10) Well, I would say for one, I would make the statement that I was depressed. (12:14) I mean, for the first time in my life, you know, I would say that I was depressed. (12:19) I mean, you know, it's just, and when you're going through it, I didn't see a way out.(12:27) I mean, I didn't see, I really didn't see it coming out. (12:29) I mean, you know, people were like, oh, it's going to be okay. (12:31) I'm like, stop saying that.(12:32) You know, even, you know, family and my wife, I'm like, stop saying that. (12:36) Why are you saying that? (12:37) You're not going through what I'm going through, right?(12:39) And when you're in it, it's sometimes difficult to understand, you know, what is it going to change that's going to make you come out of it? (12:50) And, you know, I, it wasn't a single day where I was like, oh, this day I'm out of it. (12:58) It was gradual, but it was implementing certain things.(13:02) I listened to, you know, a ton of scripture, a ton of messages, you know, and, you know, just praying and things like that. (13:12) And, you know, the, you know, not to get too into it, but, you know, the whole thing is, you know, when we talk about, you know, judged as a whole, well, we're, none of us are righteous by ourselves to go to heaven, just reality. (13:29) And, you know, people can, you know, I'm saying go down this path, but it's really only through Jesus.(13:35) I mean, reality is that we're saved through him, what he did, not what we do. (13:41) And that wasn't even a thing about me as far as like looking at it, as far as like, oh, I'm gonna be judged for what I did. (13:49) I was judging myself early, you know, like, oh my gosh, I could be so stupid.(13:53) That was the main thing. (13:54) How could I do all these things that looking back, I never would have done. (13:58) I'm using information and data at the time, and, you know, just putting tons of money into deals and doing all these things, right?(14:05) But there's definitely a reflection point. (14:08) And I think if you don't make some sort of change or changes, you're never coming out of it. (14:15) I mean, we know, I know people, right?(14:17) That are in it. (14:18) And not even just because of what we're going through, but just in general, and they never come out of it. (14:22) You have to make a change.(14:24) You have to have people like, again, if my sister didn't come down and kidnap me basically what you did, I really don't know where I'd be right now. (14:31) And I'm not just saying that to say that. (14:32) I mean, I had some, you know, just like, you know, just weird thoughts and weird, you know, that never had in my life.(14:41) And those were things I was, you know, kind of contending and dealing with. (14:44) But, you know, I went out, you know, to Michigan for supposedly a few days. (14:50) And, you know, I was there nine weeks.(14:53) Not being, not really, that's what it took, you know, and it didn't like, I left and I was like, oh, I'm all better. (14:59) Yeah. (14:59) But I got, you know, I got out of the environment.(15:02) I started implementing things, changing things, doing things physical is great. (15:05) I mean, it just is, it's a, you know, whether it was for a walk or I go out in the sun every day pretty much too, that's always great for you. (15:14) And when you get in a rut, something happens and, you know, I can get an email and be like, oh my gosh, like what the heck, you know?(15:20) Yeah. (15:20) One email, you're like, oh crap. (15:23) And it sends you in a spiral.(15:24) Right, in a spiral. (15:25) So it's how long do you stay in the spiral? (15:28) Before it was, you're just in it.(15:30) Yeah. (15:30) And now, you know, maybe you're in it for an hour, two hours, maybe a day, but before you're in it for days and weeks at a time. (15:36) Yeah.(15:37) That's, you know, where you are. (15:38) And someone told me like, you know, hey, as you're working through these really, really tough things, whatever it might be, just realize that no matter what, you're getting closer to a conclusion on it. (15:49) So, you know, if someone, and we, you know, we have properties, right, with no money.(15:55) We sell properties in some properties, in some cases, unfortunately, the lender took them. (16:00) But let's just say you sell a property with no money and the lender's gonna sue you for something. (16:05) And yes, you would love to pay the lender, but there's no money in the entity anymore, right?(16:08) So like, you know, my heartbeat doesn't even go up anymore. (16:13) Yeah. (16:13) You know, when a lender sends something, or sorry, when a vendor sends something to me, right?(16:18) Lenders are different, right? (16:19) And investors and things like that. (16:21) But a vendor, it's like, I'm sorry, right?(16:23) This is a business. (16:24) And so you get to the point where you can deal with things much, much faster, resolve them faster, identify them faster. (16:33) And it just helps you get through those things.(16:35) If you, you know, go back in time two years ago, I mean, you're basically, although we knew real estate, we didn't know, I didn't know how to navigate, you know, I exited 20 deals last year. (16:51) I can tell you, you learn a little bit by doing that. (16:53) Sure.(16:54) You know, whether it's how to interact with investors or lenders or vendors or whoever, you get to where you can navigate that. (17:06) It doesn't make it easy necessarily. (17:08) And dude, I'm sympathetic.(17:10) I mean, yeah, I mean, it sucks when people lose money. (17:14) There's no question about it, but it wasn't like there was a big difference between, you know, failure and fraud. (17:21) There are people out there committing fraud, right?(17:23) So I can look myself in the mirror and go, okay, I did everything I possibly can. (17:26) I sold everything and pretty much I had, no joke. (17:29) I put money in the properties, you know, shouldn't have, but I did, but that's where, you know, I can say, well, I did what I can.(17:37) It still failed in some cases, but I can tell you the lessons learned by going through, you know, I've done between buying sales, I've done almost 200 deals and 20 last year. (17:50) And, you know, there are only a couple of those we wanted to probably sell, although other ones are pretty much forced to sell. (17:56) And you learn to navigate and get smarter about how do I structure a deal when I exit it?(18:03) How do I limit my liability as much as possible when I exit a deal? (18:07) You know, do I save the deal? (18:10) Do I sell the deal?(18:11) And if I do, how do I sell it? (18:12) Do I try and do a deed in lieu? (18:15) Those are all things that, you know, you just learn and it makes you for the future, if you stick with it, a lot of people just have dropped out, right?(18:23) If you stick with it and go, man, if I do another deal, here are all the things I've learned over the last, you know, X number of years, and in general, the last two years, here are all the things I'll do differently. (18:33) And by doing that, it gives me the comfort level, not that everything go perfect, but that I can, you know, navigate this in the future and be smarter on how I do deals and protect people more.

Marcus Arredondo

(18:47) I got a lot of questions about this. (18:48) Before we sort of get more into the nuts and bolts of, I think, the actual, the interesting components of you navigating that, the one thing that you sort of mentioned that I always go back to is, you know, there, stress, we tend to feel stress, psychological stress, at least, based on sort of two principles. (19:09) One is ruminating over the past, remorse, guilt, regret, and anticipation of the future.(19:15) But you sort of highlighted the best antidote to that is actually working toward the conclusion, right, is actually getting back, focusing on that. (19:25) And that's not as easy as the words that are coming out of my mouth sound when you're in it, right? (19:32) I mean, I'm recalling a moment where a friend of mine, actually, it was someone had mentioned an email that somebody had sent, and I said something to the effect of, it was a rude email, it was aggressive or something.(19:50) And I went back and looked at it when I had received it at the time, you know, it was death by a thousand cuts, and it wasn't, it wasn't nearly as aggressive or vindictive or whatever the case may have been as I had thought it was. (20:05) But at that moment, I had a really tough time being able to see reality as it lay before me. (20:12) And I guess, before we move on outside of this concept, I just want to ask, if you could go back to that, what would you tell yourself?(20:18) I mean, how could you give advice, having gone through what you've gone through, to somebody who hasn't? (20:27) I mean, is there, is the only way to identify this resolve, this metal, this resilience, this grit by going through it? (20:38) Or is there a shortcut to finding a way at that moment?

Mark Kenney

(20:45) I know a lot more now than I did, you know, even a year ago of how to go through things. (20:50) And for me, there were a couple of things. (20:53) It doesn't change the circumstances.(20:55) It doesn't mean you're not gonna have stress and anxiety, but I should have gotten out of my environment for, you know, I didn't have to be that long, but should have gotten out of the environment. (21:04) I should have, you know, still been eating like I was. (21:10) I mean, you know, I just stopped eating for, you know, not much, I mean, I ate every day, but not much.(21:14) And, you know, my wife's like, you're not eating, you know, you're like below a thousand calories a day, probably, right? (21:20) So getting, implementing those things where, hey, I'm not gonna let this get to me where I, I'm gonna stop working out or I'm gonna stop eating or sleep is a harder one, right? (21:29) I mean, it just, it just is.(21:33) It's a lot better than it was before. (21:35) And then when you get into a rut, which it will happen if you're going through this, what are the things like, sometimes I just go out for a walk, like no joke, just like, just go walk. (21:46) I go sit outside for like 20 minutes in the sun just to like, mate, I just, I mean, it's not, you say it's not productive.(21:53) You're just sitting there. (21:54) A lot of times it just calls out there, but it's like, it's productive because I need a mental break. (21:58) And making sure that you don't let this change your, kind of who you are.(22:05) Like my sister's like, working out is who, you know, it's part of who you are, right? (22:09) And you're, you're neglecting that. (22:11) And again, it was only for a short period of time, but I let that take away from there.(22:16) And I, you know, I was still eating healthy food. (22:19) I just wasn't eating enough, right? (22:20) And then you take that on top of like looting the way and not sleeping.(22:24) And I mean, I would have, and it's not an exaggeration. (22:27) I'd have, you know, two nights in a row where I wouldn't even sleep like one second. (22:31) It's not, hey, I dozed off.(22:32) It was like, no, not even a second of sleep. (22:36) Just staying healthy. (22:37) Right.(22:38) You just, you know, you just can't, you know? (22:40) So, and then just talking to people, you know, I, I think I mentioned, we talked a couple of weeks ago, like one of the best things I did, which I thought was going to be very hard to do and make things worse. (22:53) I started documenting kind of my lessons learned of journey, right?(22:59) And by doing that, I was quite surprised at how much better it made me feel. (23:07) Even though I'm like, how can you document all those hard lessons and all the, these are real stories, right? (23:12) They're not like, sometimes, you know, dude, this is made up stuff, you think?(23:16) I mean, the level of, I'm not just going to, I'm going to say it's stupidity of what people have done. (23:22) How people lie. (23:23) I mean, flat out lie.(23:24) I mean, just like, hey, I mean, documented lie. (23:28) We'll prove, you know, show me, you know, I mean, we're going through discovery. (23:31) I'm just telling you, we're going through discovery in one thing right now.(23:33) And it's the dude, we produced 12,600 pages, okay? (23:38) That's how many pages, and that's not even everything. (23:40) You know how many they produced on the full discovery?(23:43) New page, zero. (23:44) There's nothing there. (23:46) You know, it's like, you're completely wasting my time.(23:49) You're completely wasting your time. (23:50) And by the way, each person has to pay, you know, $30,000 just for arbitration, let alone attorney fees. (23:56) It's stupid, you know?(23:58) And I had someone just, you know, basically, not basically, forged my name on something. (24:03) Not even a name, just put a line through my signature. (24:06) I mean, the amount of things that people do, and you're like, well, how would you not, well, how would I know that?(24:13) Yeah, well, how would I know that? (24:14) How would I know that, you know, someone's going to do something? (24:16) I mean, we're all into this together, but I do think, you know, if you get back to, what are the things that, I don't want to say define you, because it's a dark word.(24:26) What are the things that are part of your normal routine? (24:28) Don't stop doing those. (24:29) In some cases, do it more.(24:31) I might start working out more. (24:33) When I was, you know, after I was getting back into it, I was like, okay, I'm going to, I go back to the gym in the afternoon, just like to do more work, right? (24:40) Because I'm like, I just need them at the break.(24:44) So I would definitely can get through stuff much, much faster. (24:47) It doesn't mean that it's not painful. (24:49) It doesn't mean it's not stressful, but there's certain things now that, dude, I'm not, I mean, they don't stress me at all.(24:54) And I can tell you a year ago, they were stressed the heck out of me. (24:56) And I'm like, yeah, you know, okay, we'll get through this. (25:00) And there are other things where I'm like, this is a big deal.(25:02) I can quantify this as a big deal. (25:06) I can say this, this is not a big deal. (25:08) And this is somewhere in between.(25:10) And the ones that aren't big deals, it's like, we just get through them, you know? (25:13) Yeah.

Marcus Arredondo

(25:14) It's interesting you put the, I mean, you didn't say writing per se, it was lessons learned. (25:19) But I have found that my way out started with the writing, which was just sort of seeing things from a different perspective. (25:26) Even if it's looking at myself from a objective point of view, I think gave me just an idea that there's another way to look at this that could be more productive than the neuroses that I was engaged in.(25:45) I'm curious, so just to switch subjects a little bit, but on this topic, how do you, how has this changed how you view partners and other operators outside of real estate that you may encounter? (25:58) Waiters, you know, other people, humanity as a whole, have you, has this changed how you view people?

Mark Kenney

(26:07) Yeah. (26:07) I'll start with, I'll come back to partners in a second. (26:12) That's a whole podcast, but I'll make sure I will.(26:16) But people, you know, if I really look at, I mean, we were financially successful, like very successful, right? (26:30) And pretty much could buy whatever, you know, pretty much whatever I want. (26:33) And I'm not, you know, I like cars, right?(26:35) That's pretty much my only thing. (26:36) I don't really care about clothes or watches or anything, technology, you know, all that stuff. (26:40) But at the end of the day, you know, (26:43) I can tell you when I would go home to my hometown, (26:45) which is a pretty small town overall, (26:47) and I go to, you know, whatever, Walmart, (26:49) or they have Meyers there in Michigan, (26:51) and I might run in, they see somebody like working there (26:55) from high school, and I will tell you, you know, (26:58) it'd be like, hmm, I wouldn't wanna say this, (27:03) but yeah, pretty much think I'm better than them. (27:05) That's the truth.(27:07) If you really look at it and say, well, you know, they didn't do much, or they haven't gone far, it's like, hmm, you're pretty much, not pretty much, you think you're better than them, and you're not. (27:15) Yeah. (27:16) And it really has caused me to realize that you're really only one decision or one event away from destruction, or the reverse, success.(27:30) And I was heading down, you know, and so I have, dude, I'm like, you have to have a servant heart. (27:37) You're not better than anybody. (27:38) I mean, you know, you can, every lesson learned, and am I just saying this today?(27:45) You go back to just scripture verses like, man, okay, all these things are in there, right? (27:50) If I would have really been paying attention and listening and abiding by it. (27:54) But it's, I mean, I'm kind of ashamed to say that, but I would look at somebody and go, oh, you know, they made bad choices, and you know.(28:08) Partners, you know, there are so many things around partnerships that, one, just protect yourself. (28:16) I mean, who you partner with, who you don't. (28:18) I mean, I have partners that, you know, if you go, if Marcus and I go into a deal together as an LLC, and Marcus goes in, does something, or I go and do something I shouldn't do, I've had this happen, right?(28:31) 2016, one of my partners signed a contract, and I didn't ever sign the contract, never, you know, didn't want to do the deal. (28:39) Well, we got sued, and you know, $371,000 later, my piece, right, he didn't pay anything, by something that this guy did. (28:49) And I have a recent example where there's no, not even a deal that you would know about, or anything like that, but not from our group or anything, but there's no tiebreaker, right?(29:03) 10 plus years ago, and there's no tiebreaker what happens, I wanted to sell these properties, investors wanted to sell properties back in 2021. (29:10) They're smaller deals, but they're worth, you know, like over $8 million, and now they're worth like 5.1. I say 5.1, because that's what happened. (29:22) This partner, you'd think it's a joke, but it's not, this partner on, let's just say a holiday that was somewhat recently, on a Friday, said, hey, I, he decided to sell the properties and sign this two-page document to give consent, and we're closing on Tuesday.(29:40) No joke. (29:41) Never saw a contract, never saw a LOI, didn't know the properties were for sale. (29:46) I'm not joking, dude.

Marcus Arredondo

(29:47) It's just like, how do you- For the better of the audience, this process typically takes 60 to 90 days.

Mark Kenney

(29:53) Right. (29:53) Even the PSA was signed 21 days, so the guy was a cash buyer, but either way. (29:59) So I can't tell you how many people are like, oh, we're great buddies, we're friends, we're gonna partner together.(30:04) You, like you said, we can do a whole nother thing on that, but the reality is the plan for everything goes horribly wrong. (30:10) You partner with somebody, you're on the hook along with them, even if they, same with signing on a loan as a, you know, even if it's non-recourse, but signing on a loan as a guarantor, if you have multiple people on there, you're all on the hook no matter what. (30:25) Even if someone does something you knew nothing about, you're still on the hook.(30:29) So partners go slow, you know. (30:33) One of our friends used to say date versus marry. (30:36) Yep.(30:37) I'd be hesitant to creating joint LOCs for quite a while. (30:40) I do a couple of deals, you know, don't get your name tied up with somebody else's. (30:44) Your reputation will take a major hit because it's what somebody else does.(30:48) I've seen it, I've experienced it firsthand. (30:52) And, you know, so go slow on that, but make sure no matter what, there's always a tiebreaker if you can't agree. (30:59) 50-50 partners don't work.

Marcus Arredondo

(31:01) What do you look for in partners? (31:02) Now, knowing what you know, I mean, how would you size somebody up, for lack of a better word? (31:08) You know, it's difficult.

Mark Kenney

(31:10) I mean, I'm not trying to, you know, it's very difficult.

Marcus Arredondo

(31:12) Oh, it's better to have a relationship with somebody, but you got to start the relationship somehow, somewhere. (31:16) Right.

Mark Kenney

(31:16) I think if you fast forward and said, hey, we want to partner, I would say I wouldn't go and create a joint LLC or anything together. (31:25) I keep everything separate. (31:26) As far as looking for, which is not always easy to, you know, someone that doesn't lie and cheat and steal, that's the basics you learn when you're two years old.(31:35) And people are like, well, that person did lie, cheat, whatever it might be. (31:39) It's like, well, yeah, but like, you know, a hundred of us met this guy. (31:44) And if someone really wants to be deceitful, they're going to be deceitful.(31:47) And they're going to fool people for a period of time. (31:50) Ask out in the marketplace. (31:51) This is a really, really small world right now.(31:53) And just go ask the marketplace. (31:55) Now we had, you know, situation years ago. (31:58) I mean, it's almost about nine years ago now, where, you know, a guy's, you know, all upset about stuff.(32:05) And, you know, it's like, dude, like, I had nothing to do with that, right? (32:10) I mean, I'm not, you know, trying to like skirt blame or anything, but everything you're saying, I had nothing to do with, right? (32:15) I didn't know that.(32:16) You talked to the guy, I talked to the guy. (32:19) But it's your basics. (32:21) It's not even skillset as much.(32:22) I mean, although it's important. (32:24) Yeah. (32:24) And how do you really, I mean, how many times have people been surprised where someone is, you know, a sex offender?(32:29) Oh my gosh, I can't believe, it's like, yeah. (32:31) Okay, well, how could you not see that coming? (32:33) Same with partnerships.(32:35) So protect yourself more legally than anything else, because you're gonna be surprised. (32:38) You partner enough people, enough people, somebody is gonna be a bad partner. (32:43) So don't tie yourself in to where what they do is gonna have a reflection on what you do financially and reputation wise.

Marcus Arredondo

(32:51) How do you determine, you know, who you're gonna spend time with as a mentor relationship?

Mark Kenney

(32:58) Oh, number one, no jerks. (33:00) Yeah. (33:01) You can talk to somebody, I mean, in a matter of a couple, you know, not even a couple minutes probably, and just kind of get a, and this isn't like prejudge people.(33:09) I mean, I can't tell you how many times where you're just like, mm, it doesn't feel right. (33:15) For whatever reason, I do think, I mean, I think it's true in general that a lot of women have better discernment than guys. (33:23) Guys are focused more on transaction typically, and maybe the deal, you know, if you're married or have a spouse or whatever it might be, and they're like, mm, I like that guy.(33:33) Listen to him. (33:34) Yeah. (33:34) Because they're 99% correct.(33:38) But as far as right now, I only wanna spend time with people that are actually gonna, one, listen, do what I, you know, you don't, it's not like I'm a know-it-all, I'm not. (33:48) But I can tell you I know a lot right now about what to do and what not to do. (33:51) I just do.(33:52) It doesn't mean I'm smarter than you. (33:53) I have more knowledge, more experience, and people have more knowledge, experience than me in other areas. (33:58) This is an area, so if you don't listen to me, but if I tell you like, hey, this isn't a deal, I don't think you should do it, and you're still gonna do it anyways, then I probably don't wanna, you know, mentor you.(34:08) Or, like I said, you get an attitude from somebody immediately. (34:12) And I'm easygoing. (34:14) I mean, I think I am.(34:16) And if I'm like, mm, person doesn't jive with me, I don't wanna work with them. (34:21) Yeah. (34:22) Yeah, life's too short for that.

Marcus Arredondo

(34:23) How do you, how has this, the last few years, shaped your approach as a dad?

Mark Kenney

(34:30) As a dad? (34:32) Wow. (34:34) Well, on top of all this happening, if you wanna say, there are other things that, you know, my daughter started driving, for example.(34:41) So, it was great when she was 15, because I, 95% of the time, I was the one taking her everywhere, and it was a great spending time with her. (34:50) Once she got her license, I pretty much stopped seeing her, you know? (34:53) And then our son, recently, he moved to the Philippines.(34:59) He was there, longer story, but he's over there right now. (35:02) So, what it, I felt really guilty, and I would say somewhat justified, guilty for, you know, a couple months there, a few months where I neglected everything. (35:15) It wasn't just myself, I neglected everything.(35:17) I was just like in a, you know, like I can't even function hardly, you know? (35:21) And what it caused me to do, reflecting again, is like, I wake up, and I mean, almost every morning, I'm like, thank you, thank you, thank you, like, you know, for my wife, for my kids, for a place to live, a pillow, a sheet. (35:36) I mean, I'm not exaggerating now.(35:37) I mean, it's like everything, right? (35:39) But as a father, it really, (35:43) it made me, my daughter in particular, (35:45) originally was like, I started like, (35:48) I text, I used to text her quite a bit anyways, (35:49) but texting her more things around, (35:53) whether it was scripture verses, (35:55) or whether it was, you know, (35:57) things that I think are really gonna make a, (35:59) you know, a potential difference in her life, (36:02) because, you know, no one knows (36:03) how long you're gonna be here.(36:04) And when I have time with her, it's like, I cherish it. (36:09) Sure. (36:10) A lot more, before I would take it more for granted, and then, you know, my son's always been, you know, a very easy child.(36:18) I shouldn't say always. (36:19) When he was 10 on, 10 years on, and, you know, older, you know, he's a very easy child. (36:25) Never really had to deal with that, but, you know, the, you get so busy, sometimes you neglect those things.(36:35) I'm not saying I never do, but now, you know, I talk to my son, you know, almost every day, even though he's in the Philippines, and I spend a lot more time just, like, talking to him than I had before. (36:48) But the end is, one, they saw that I can come through it, and I wasn't, I admitted it to them, I wasn't a very good role model. (37:00) I mean, the kids and my wife were the ones supporting me, which, you know, made me sad, frankly, I did.(37:08) But, you know, they have my back, and they, you know, they were the ones that, hey, everything's gonna be okay. (37:13) And, you know, again, I'm like, you guys don't know, you guys don't have a clue. (37:15) Like, you don't have a clue what I'm dealing with.(37:17) I'm not just, I'm not trying to say it's bad, dude, it was bad. (37:20) But it's really, it's so hard to believe how fast it goes, and how fast things can change. (37:31) You know, our son was here in January, and then flew to the Philippines, we weren't sure for how long, and now he may be over there for a couple years.(37:42) Yeah, that's, you know, you wanna cherish those times that you have. (37:47) We're gonna go over to see him here shortly, but it's helped me reflect on what's really important. (37:56) It's not stuff, don't get me wrong, I think people, it's fine if you want stuff, you like stuff.(38:00) I mean, that's fine, right? (38:02) But that's not what you should be striving for at the expense of your family, because at the end of the day, all that stuff can be taken away easily. (38:13) And I will tell you, you know, the stress and anxiety, and you know, whether you have stress and anxiety because of what we're going through, because you're just trying to build your business, you're trying to, you know, you just can't stop.(38:25) If you die 10 years earlier than you were, you could have lived because you're of all this. (38:32) You know, one of my good friends is in a group, it's a super ultra, ultra high net worth group. (38:38) And he's like, everyone in the group's like, I can't sleep at night.(38:41) These guys were all, I mean, they're minimum 50 million net worth minimum, and they can't sleep at night. (38:48) Yep. (38:49) You know, and is it really worth it?(38:52) Yeah. (38:53) I don't know, I don't say like, hey, go do nothing, be a bum, but is it really worth it? (38:59) And at the expense of not spending time with your family, and you're going to have certain seasons where you're busier and you may be, I'd just say maybe ignoring your family a little bit.(39:09) Yeah. (39:10) But that should be very short lived. (39:12) That shouldn't be your MO.

Marcus Arredondo

(39:14) Yeah, I mean, the word of the day here is like, you know, living a balanced life, but the reality is your life is constantly out of balance, and there's some seasonality to it. (39:26) And you just hope that maybe that body of work averages out to some form of balance, but there's going to be seasons where this is not, that's just not within the realm of feasibility to achieve that. (39:43) What have you learned about, not just your own, but other people's relationship to money?

Mark Kenney

(39:50) To money, oh my gosh. (39:52) So I always, you know, we grew up with not a lot, you know, we had a place to live and food, but I always had a major, major fear of not having money. (40:04) I think that there's nothing wrong with having stuff.(40:07) There's not. (40:09) But I think, I mean, again, you can go back to the Bible and people say, oh, the money is the root of all evil. (40:14) No, it doesn't say that.(40:16) It doesn't say it at all. (40:17) It says the love of money, yeah, is the root of all evil. (40:20) Just like the love of anything else that takes you away from Christ is the root of all evil.(40:24) It's not just money. (40:25) Money's mentioned, you know, a ton of times in the Bible. (40:29) But to me, it's helped me realize a couple of things.(40:32) One, stuff is just stuff. (40:35) Yeah. (40:35) And the expense of like, I mean, just use, you know, exotic cars.(40:40) You get an example, you get an exotic car versus a Toyota. (40:44) It's not just the, you know, cost of the car. (40:46) I mean, they had, I mean, one of the cars, you know, was like, what, $30,000 for like the, you know, the maintenance on it.(40:55) It's like, it's stupid. (40:56) I mean, it's like, it's totally stupid, right? (41:00) But also, one of the biggest things for me is that invest in things that cashflow.(41:09) Not every investment has to cashflow. (41:10) Your net worth can't pay anything at all if you can't have cashflow coming in and doing things like, which I'd, let me borrow against, you know, some stuff I own and go invest it. (41:25) I'm obviously gonna make a higher return.(41:27) Yeah, no, not obviously. (41:29) Not only will you maybe not make that return, you might lose all the money you just borrowed and you still owe it to the bank. (41:34) So doing those things is like, there are certain things that mathematically and even maybe financially make sense that aren't worth it, mentally and, you know, anxiety and stress-wise.(41:48) People, why would you have a paid-off house? (41:50) You know, Zuckerberg doesn't have his house paid off. (41:53) And I mean, it's like, you know what?(41:54) Because if it gives you peace of mind to do that, don't listen to anybody else. (41:58) It's not always a financial decision. (42:01) It's also a personal decision.(42:03) And there's something to be said. (42:05) I mean, if I could make a magic wand and just pay to make everything go away, I would do that, right? (42:10) I mean, that's what I would do.(42:12) Well, there are certain things. (42:13) If you can cut out, you know, some stress that you have and maybe it's not the best financial decision, but it makes you happier and less stressed and you live longer, I mean, what would you pay to live another year? (42:26) Yeah.(42:26) I don't know. (42:27) I mean, probably quite a bit.

Marcus Arredondo

(42:29) What'd you learn by scaling? (42:30) I mean, you started with smaller properties. (42:34) You started syndicating and you already mentioned you've buy-sold over 200 properties.(42:40) At one point you had 2 billion under management. (42:43) That's not insignificant. (42:44) And you achieved that in not a ton of time.(42:48) And it was probably seven years or so, right? (42:51) Give or take. (42:51) Which is extraordinary.(42:53) What do you take away from that experience? (42:58) And to be clear, you still have a lot of that. (43:00) I'm not suggesting that it's gone.(43:01) I'm just saying that their, you know, systems show themselves in times of strife.

Mark Kenney

(43:08) Yeah. (43:08) I think there are a lot of things. (43:13) Scaling is one thing.(43:14) Okay. (43:15) If you scale, let's say you bought 100 properties that were all fixed debt, you know, a 5% debt, 30 year debt. (43:22) Okay.(43:22) That's one. (43:23) You buy. (43:23) And then the other example, someone buys a hundred properties, floating rate debt, matures.(43:28) But dude, it matures whenever the lender wants it to mature. (43:31) People are like, oh, I have a five-year loan in Britain. (43:33) I know you don't.(43:34) Yeah. (43:34) You have a 311 maybe, three years plus. (43:37) Maybe you do.(43:38) Even then the lender can rebalance and things like that. (43:41) So scaling, you know, we scale a lot through partnerships, which we talked about, right? (43:48) So be, you know, be very leery about that.(43:51) But also it's okay to start small. (43:54) Yeah. (43:55) Smaller.(43:56) You know, we're always, hey, a hundred unit plus because it's easier and get professional management. (44:00) Yeah, you do. (44:02) But I think you're better off.(44:05) Scaling is fine. (44:06) If you have, I think it's being smarter about what you're buying. (44:09) And there are several areas for that, right?(44:11) It's location, which will control, you know, evictions and crime and even the debt you get. (44:17) And taxes and insurance and, you know, things like that. (44:21) So getting smarter on, you know, listening to people that have bought in certain areas.(44:26) We're in, you know, 14 states, but you know, half of them would never go back to again, ever. (44:30) Yep. (44:30) And then getting smarter on the type of debt that you do long-term.(44:36) Yeah, your returns might be a little bit lower on a piece of paper, but there's, you know, you're basically eliminating the unknowns in anything, you know, you do. (44:45) There are always these unknowns that you know about when you go into it. (44:48) And then there are, you know, unknowns that you don't know about until you get into the deal.(44:53) So eliminating much of those. (44:55) So I don't have, I don't really have a huge problem scaling with one exception. (45:00) You know, you have to have very experienced asset managers.(45:06) Yep. (45:06) The amount of, you have a third-party property manager company that manages the day-to-day and, you know, a lot of those guys are frankly horrible. (45:15) I mean, we've used, I don't know, 45 probably property manager companies over different portfolios and wish we would have been vertically integrated and did our own, but we didn't, you know, then.(45:26) But I think getting, there's a lot more to, you kind of forget how much you know sometimes. (45:34) When someone starts doing something, I've gotten on some calls, a lot more calls here recently. (45:40) When I asked the manager, I'm just like, oh my gosh, like what?(45:42) You know, I mean, it's like what you, or maybe I would think are very basic things. (45:48) They're not basic to people. (45:50) So don't you, if you scale, then you got good debt and you got good location, good properties, and you know, locations you can evict and all those things like that.(46:01) And you have someone that's super professional, been there, done that, and I asked the manager's side, you're probably okay doing it. (46:08) Any one of those three things you neglect, you're potentially hosed. (46:13) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marcus Arredondo

(46:15) One thing I, which is sort of off topic, and I wanna make sure as we're coming up on time that I do talk about this, is your workout routine, your daily routine. (46:25) I am curious what that is entail, what's entailed there because this image here doesn't display the fullness of Mark because Mark is a, you're probably sub 10% body fat and you're a bulked dude. (46:46) Where did that start?(46:47) What has that served you in like, and what's your day-to-day? (46:52) So the, am I right on the 10% though, sub 10%? (46:55) Yeah, I don't know.

Mark Kenney

(46:56) I'm, yeah, I try to stay pretty lean, you know, just in general. (47:00) I like, I've done the bulking and the cutting and I'm like, ah, just stay lean. (47:04) I like it, Tammy likes it better that way, my wife.(47:06) So that's where I stay. (47:07) But I started working out about 14 years old to 24 and stopped for like 20 some years. (47:14) Just, I mean, I was just crazy, right?(47:15) And then I had dislocated my shoulder, I don't know, whatever, seven, eight years ago. (47:21) And through kind of this guy rehabbing me, I really got back into it again. (47:26) And I'm not sure it's a healthy obsession.(47:30) I really get just kind of obsessed with working out and it's very good mentally for me. (47:37) It's my good mental break. (47:40) And I used to have a lot of like joint issues.(47:47) I mean, at one point I kind of had arthritis. (47:50) And when I started doing two things, one started like build my joints up through working out, but also completely changed my diet. (47:56) Like I weigh all my food, you know, you don't have to do that, but I do.(48:00) I eat, you know, real clean. (48:03) And when I started doing that, this guy said, well, try for, it was like 31 days. (48:07) I don't know why 31 days, 31 days.(48:09) And I'm like, I feel way better. (48:10) I don't have these issues, any joint issues anymore. (48:13) And I just kept doing it.(48:14) You know, that was, I don't know.

Marcus Arredondo

(48:15) What did you do in those 31 days?

Mark Kenney

(48:17) Is it beyond measuring your food? (48:19) Pretty much, I mean, no sugar. (48:21) I mean, it was like kind of, you couldn't even chew gum, right?(48:23) I'm like, okay, okay, I didn't, you know. (48:26) I follow everything. (48:26) You tell me to do something, I'll do it exactly right.(48:28) So it was, I don't remember exactly what I was eating. (48:33) Like now I eat like a lot of yogurt, a lot of like, you know, strawberries or blueberries and banana and like lots of fruits. (48:40) I don't need a lot of calories right now, but I, it's, I mean, I will have like Ezekiel bread, right?(48:47) But it's all like one ingredient, typically one ingredient of food. (48:52) And it's helped me, one, I'm amazed sometimes, like, you know, I'm in my 50s, but I really do feel like, like physically, I'm like, okay, you know, I can keep up with most guys probably, you know, way less than half my age, but it's consistency. (49:10) And it's really, what's your goal?(49:14) Like one of my, what's your goal? (49:15) Why are you doing this? (49:16) I said, you know what?(49:17) I don't really know. (49:18) I said, but here's the one thing is that it's the one thing I do that I personally have a hundred percent control over. (49:25) Yeah.(49:26) It's the only thing, like everything else, business-wise, you have other people you're dependent on. (49:31) If I, you know, if people like, oh, I'm older now, it's harder, yeah, okay, whatever. (49:36) But it's still up to you.(49:37) Like, you know, it's amazing. (49:39) You eat more calories, you put on weight, you eat less calories, you put on, you know, and don't get me wrong. (49:42) It doesn't matter what you eat and stuff like that.(49:44) But it's helped me, it's helped me mentally. (49:47) Sure. (49:47) Like a great deal.(49:49) It's helped me like physically, as far as the way I feel. (49:52) And it gives me a goal all the time. (49:54) Like I'm always like, oh, I'm gonna try to like do, I might get these stupid things.(49:58) No one even would notice, right? (49:58) It's only like stuff I make up. (50:01) Like I'm gonna try to do this, and then I'll do work on that for a while, you know?(50:06) You're a morning guy? (50:08) Yeah, for sure. (50:09) First thing?(50:10) First thing in the morning, yeah.

Marcus Arredondo

(50:11) So what time are you in there?

Mark Kenney

(50:13) Oh, it depends, you know. (50:16) Used to be in there at five. (50:17) Usually it's, I'm there by six, for sure.(50:20) Yeah. (50:21) And then, you know, I pick different workout routines that are pretty challenging sometimes. (50:27) It's always a challenge.(50:28) Like, you know, hey, can you? (50:30) You're picking from where? (50:32) You're making them up?(50:33) Oh, I've had three trainers. (50:35) Yeah, yeah. (50:36) Like paid trainers.(50:37) I mean, accountability-wise, it was great. (50:40) And now I don't really need it, I don't. (50:43) And the biggest thing they help me with is the diet.(50:46) Yeah. (50:46) You know, the food. (50:47) I shouldn't call it that, it's food, right?(50:48) I mean, it's like what you eat. (50:50) And it's, I mean, I don't, for me, it's like, hey, I'll pick like usually one meal a week will, you know, will be a cheat meal. (50:59) Yeah.(50:59) But if a cake's sitting on the counter, I don't eat it. (51:01) I mean, it's like, oh, it's not my day, right? (51:03) So I'm not saying you can't do that.(51:05) You don't have to be this way. (51:06) Otherwise, you're a little like food Nazi, you know? (51:09) It's like, no, I just, you know, I made a commitment to myself what I'm doing and I abide by that.(51:15) But like I said, physically and mentally, they help me and it always, always, there's, you never, your goals are never obtained, meaning you always have something you can work on.

Marcus Arredondo

(51:27) Yeah, no question. (51:29) Well, I think that's sort of a little bit, I'm not religious, I was raised in a religious environment, but I recently heard a podcast about early interpretations of the Bible and how the word faith has been translated a little bit incorrect. (51:44) Whether this is true or not, it gave me a different perspective, which is that faith we've come to believe, to understand is more equated with belief, but the original word was more akin to commitment.(51:57) And I think that commitment to the work is really appealing about working out about the servant, the service component of what you're expressing. (52:11) But nothing is good until you're committed to it, right? (52:16) I mean, a lot of people will say, I want to go work out, and then they work out for three days and they're like, I can't see any difference.(52:21) You're like.

Mark Kenney

(52:22) Yeah, one guy a few years ago was like, hey, what are you doing, you know? (52:26) And I said, I have a trainer, which I had a trainer then. (52:29) And he said, I said, well, I can, he wanted my stuff that, I said, well, I have something where the trainer says I can't send stuff, right?(52:36) I just can't, right? (52:37) He said, well, you send me stuff and then I'll look at it and decide if I want to do it or not. (52:42) I'm like, well, you're already not going to do it.(52:45) I mean, you know what I mean? (52:46) It's like, yeah, you would just say, well, send it to me, I'm going to do it. (52:49) Yeah, it doesn't matter.(52:50) Like I said, it's not important to him. (52:52) That's totally fine. (52:53) But the commitment, like you said, and everything is really important.

Marcus Arredondo

(52:57) Well, I really appreciate this, Mark. (52:59) I think this was super helpful just to have you on and talk about this. (53:04) And I'd love to have you on again, but any closing thoughts or things you think I might've missed?

Mark Kenney

(53:11) Not really. (53:11) I think we hit on a lot of things. (53:13) I think it's really sitting down and maybe documenting what's really important.(53:18) And you'll probably find that most things are pretty simple.

Marcus Arredondo

(53:21) What are your, the one thing I do want to ask is what are some of your practices now? (53:25) You know, having been through this as maybe a mitigating preventative medicine type of approach, anything you're doing now that is beyond working out?

Mark Kenney

(53:34) Yeah, no, for sure. (53:35) I go on a lot of walks using a TAM, my wife, like way more than I ever did before. (53:42) I get out, I get out.(53:44) Yeah. (53:44) I just, and I, like I said, I go sit outside for 20 minutes in the sun.

Marcus Arredondo

(53:48) Yeah.

Mark Kenney

(53:49) And I listen to a lot of like worship music, which I, you know, really wasn't doing before. (53:58) I listened to like a lot of like messages. (54:01) So whenever I'm like, I know it's coming now, right?(54:05) Before it was like, what the heck's going on? (54:07) I don't even know what, like what's going on with me, right? (54:09) Now I know, I can see if something happens or you can tell.(54:12) And I just do these, in some cases, small little things, but you do enough of them and you do them often enough, it will help you like significantly. (54:21) It has made. (54:22) Thank you, Mark.(54:23) For sure, Marcus. (54:24) Great talking to you.

Marcus Arredondo

(54:25) Likewise, man. (54:26) Thank you. (54:34) Thanks for listening.(54:35) For a detailed list of episodes and show notes, visit scalesofsuccesspodcast.com. (54:39) If you found this conversation engaging, consider signing up for our newsletter, where we go even deeper on a weekly basis, sharing exclusive insights and actionable strategies that can help you in your own journey. (54:49) We'd also appreciate if you subscribed, rated, or shared today's episode.(54:53) It helps us to attract more illuminating guests, adding to the list of enlightening conversations we've had with New York Times bestsellers, producers, founders, CEOs, congressmen, and other independent thinkers who are challenging the status quo. (55:05) You can also follow us for updates, extra content, and more insights from our guests. (55:10) We hope to have you back again next week for another episode of Scales of Success.(55:14) Scales of Success is an Edge West Capital production. (55:17) Scales of Success.