Scales Of Success Podcast

#37 - Scars Over Stats with Robert Paylor

• Marcus Arredondo

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What if your greatest success came after your worst moment? In this unforgettable episode of Scales of Success, Marcus welcomes Robert Paylor, who was paralyzed during a rugby match, and chose to rise. From ICU to walking at graduation, Robert shares the mindset, faith, and purpose that redefined his life. Whether you’re facing a setback or searching for meaning, this episode is packed with the kind of clarity and courage that can reframe your life.

Robert Paylor is a sought-after speaker and author who helps audiences unlock resilience through the power of mindset. Once told he'd never walk again, Robert has turned that prognosis into a platform, showing others how to transform limitation into leadership. His work challenges teams and individuals to rise above setbacks with courage, clarity, and conviction. His debut book, Paralyzed to Powerful, shares the mental tools that helped him rebuild not just his body, but his life.

Connect with Robert Paylor:
Website: https://www.robertpaylor.com/
Book: https://a.co/d/0GzcLpL
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rob.paylor/
X: https://twitter.com/RobertPaylor5
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robertpaylor5
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-paylor/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rob.paylor

Episode highlights:
(1:59) Who is Robert Paylor?
(8:10) The moment everything changed
(14:03) Choosing a mindset in the chaos
(21:05) Walking again, against all odds
(26:42) The role of family and faith
(32:23) Redefining identity after trauma
(40:03) Turning pain into purpose
(44:10) How to find your team
(50:58) The power of sharing your story
(54:41) The Order of Malta
(59:16) The Lourdes pilgrimage
(1:06:07) Forgiveness and letting go
(1:10:50) What does true success really mean?
(1:12:53) Outro

Connect with Marcus


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Note: The transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

Robert Paylor

(0:00) The mentally weak person is just going to be all upset with the things that have happened in their life, not really able to respond. (0:06) The mentally tough person is going to put that to the side. (0:09) What's the next most important thing?(0:11) That's what they're focusing on in mental toughness. (0:14) And that's something that I really had to access. (0:16) But even just like that general feeling of growth doesn't come without discomfort.(0:21) If I wasn't uncomfortable, I wasn't growing.

Marcus Arredondo

(0:25) Today's guest is Robert Paylor, a former rugby player whose life took a dramatic turn during the 2017 Collegiate Rugby National Championship. (0:33) A spinal cord injury left him paralyzed from the neck down, with doctors saying he'd never move again. (0:38) He chose not to believe it.(0:39) He takes us through the raw early days of rehab, the moment he chose to fight instead of fold, and what it took to walk across his UC Berkeley graduation stage. (0:48) Robert is now a keynote speaker and author, helping others find strength in their lowest moments. (0:52) His life is proof that when everything breaks, you still get to decide what happens next.(0:57) Let's start the show. (0:59) Robert, thank you so much for being on. (1:01) Marcus, I'm honored.(1:02) Thanks for having me. (1:03) It'll be fun. (1:04) I have a lot of different directions I want to go and talk about.(1:06) Bill Murray, your conversation with your spiritual advisor, the Order of Malta, a couple of chapters in your book, including taking a stand, being part of something bigger than yourself. (1:15) We obviously see Cal in the background.

Robert Paylor

(1:18) Yeah, I kind of got that in me.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:19) Cal plays in your life. (1:22) But for the benefit of the audience, I also want to talk about your book, Paralyzed to Powerful, obviously. (1:26) For the benefit of the audience, I'm hoping that you can just start it off because we only have this frame here, just to give context on the genesis of the book.(1:37) I'll sort of paint the picture for anybody who's viewing this or on audio. (1:41) We can only see your face. (1:42) You stood 6'5", 240 pounds, which is not a small person.(1:47) Big boy. (1:48) I just want to frame the image for some of the viewers or listeners of who I'm looking at. (1:53) Yeah, if you can just tell us sort of the background, your story.

Robert Paylor

(1:58) The background, I mean, it's amazing. (2:01) It's been an incredible life journey, not one that I ever anticipated in my life. (2:05) But what a road it's been and how cool to be able to share it in this book now.(2:10) But growing up, I've always been in the Sacramento area over here in California. (2:15) My memories are just really hot summers and sports. (2:19) I mean, I'm just a lifelong athlete and grew up kind of playing like that big three traditional American sports of football, basketball, baseball.(2:28) And when I found football, I really found like what I wanted to do. (2:33) Actually, I was always like a bigger guy. (2:35) I was the biggest in my class.(2:37) And once I learned how to like throw that weight around and like play with aggression and passion, a little grittier, things really clicked for me. (2:46) And I saw like I could have a real future and this and I can go, you know, play in a division one school really when I was like 10 years old. (2:54) My goal is like I just want to be on TV.(2:56) That was like my big thing is like what's I'm like on TV, I'm playing football like I made it. (3:01) And I'm kind of following that track when I go over to Jesuit High School in Sacramento, which has the most successful rugby program in America. (3:10) I think there are 10 national championships right now.(3:13) And they've been competing since I want to say 1999 was their first season. (3:17) So doing a lot of winning over there. (3:20) But I didn't really know anything about the sport of rugby.(3:23) I mean, I think the first time I was exposed to it was one of my friend's moms had gone to New Zealand of all places where it's like their national sport. (3:32) They're so into it. (3:33) Right.(3:34) And she goes to a game and she describes this experience where there was a guy who lost his mouth guard and he just kept playing. (3:42) He goes into contact and he bites through his lip like teeth through the skin. (3:49) And I'm like, that's crazy.(3:51) I'm never going to do that. (3:53) Like those lunatics could go play rugby. (3:55) But I'll just like stay to my football and put my pads on like a sane person would.(4:00) And then when I find this sport of rugby at Jesuit, everybody's into it. (4:04) It's so unique. (4:05) Like they're passing around a rugby ball like at lunchtime and, you know, people are like they got their short shorts in their backpack and stuff like that.(4:14) Getting ready to go train and, you know, here they come back winning all these national championships. (4:18) They're like, Robert, we're a great team. (4:21) We have a lot of fun and it's a pipeline to go over to Cal as well.(4:25) Just a couple hours away. (4:27) You should give this a shot. (4:28) And I decided to.(4:30) And man, was it the best decision I ever made in my life. (4:33) I fell in love with the game. (4:36) And you know, it's so it's continuous.(4:38) So there's no stoppages in play. (4:40) Just halftime. (4:41) That's it.(4:41) And it's that full contact thing that I love that it was good at. (4:46) And you don't have like a coach who's calling the plays all the time telling you exactly what to do. (4:51) You got your game plan, but it's up to you to enact that game plan and read and respond to the situation like you've got your own sort of individual freedom on the field.(5:02) And then finally, I got to have the ball. (5:04) I got to go score. (5:05) I thought that was really fun because I always had my hand in the dirt and football.(5:09) So I do quite well. (5:10) I get MVP my first year playing. (5:12) We win a national championship that year.(5:15) I'm team captain. (5:16) You know, two years after that, we're number two in the nation. (5:19) Really tough years when you're number two, right?(5:21) And eventually I get my shoulder tapped to go play at UC Berkeley. (5:26) So Cal is the number one collegiate rugby program in the nation by far. (5:33) Right now we have 34 national championships with the tournament only even being around for about 50 years.(5:39) So there are more than half the years that you can win a national championship. (5:44) Cal rugby has won the national championship. (5:47) There's been decades straight of Cal winning.(5:49) So when you want to be the best rugby player you can be in America, you go to a school like Cal.

Marcus Arredondo

(5:55) Yeah.

Robert Paylor

(5:55) And it was a very natural pipeline. (5:57) There was lots and lots of players going from Jesuit high school to Cal just a couple hours away, you know, from the Valley to the Bay. (6:04) And beyond that, like it's a great school.(6:06) It's the number one public university in the world. (6:08) And sorry if there's any UCLA fans out there listening right now, we can discuss the number one rankings later. (6:15) But yeah, I wanted to get my business degree.(6:18) The Haas School of Business is a fantastic program. (6:21) So I go over and my first year I'm kind of working my way up the totem pole. (6:26) You know, everybody was team captain in high school.(6:29) They're all Americans. (6:30) You go to Cal and you went from like kind of that big fish, small pond to where you just got thrown into the ocean and there's killer whales all around you. (6:39) I mean, these guys can play.(6:41) So my first year I'm developing and then my second year, the position that I play called Locke had kind of opened up. (6:48) There was a senior who had graduated and we're kind of looking around thinking, okay, who's going to get this spot? (6:55) I worked my tail off.

Marcus Arredondo

(6:57) So those who are unfamiliar with rugby, Locke would be most akin to what position in football?

Robert Paylor

(7:01) Probably like a tight end. (7:02) Yeah. (7:03) So it'd be like, you know, taller guy for sure.(7:06) We're definitely the tallest on the field and we're bigger, but you still got to have that finesse about you too. (7:12) Because like I said, rugby, 80 minutes of continuous play. (7:16) You can't be lugging around 300 pounds out there on that field and you need to be able to move.(7:22) So that tight ends body lends itself to that position. (7:25) And then you got to have hands to, you got to be able to catch a ball, pass a ball, stuff like that. (7:30) Whereas as alignment and football, you wouldn't be expected to ever touch the ball or think about touching the ball.(7:37) So that was, that was my position right there. (7:39) But I really lended myself more to like the more like the contact side of a tight end and a contact side of a lock. (7:47) I mean, I was doing a lot of dirty work, going to the places that other people don't want to go, cleaning things up so that we can open something up on the outside.(7:55) Someone can just, you know, we get our fast guy, burning them on the edge and try awarded. (7:59) We made it. (8:00) So I eventually get the starting spot in my sophomore year, which is not an easy or common thing to do on this program to be starting as a sophomore.(8:09) And then we're going to compete for what would become our 31st national championship on May 6th of 2017. (8:17) So I'm thinking at this point in my life, like everything is going my way. (8:23) I mean, I'm at the number one public university in the world.(8:25) I'm starting for the number one rugby team in the nation. (8:29) I'm getting ready to go into the Haas School of Business. (8:31) Like it's a really good time to be me.(8:33) And when you're competing for these national championships, I mean, it's a real day of legacy. (8:38) I had the opportunity to compete for some over at Jesuit and it's a lot, it's just different when you're at this collegiate level. (8:45) And here, Cal rugby is Cal's first intercollegiate sport.(8:50) Actually, we started competing in 1882 and this is a history. (8:55) The feeling of being a part of something bigger than yourself is so present. (8:59) And it was very early on in this game that I'm competing in what's called a mall, which is when the bigger guys, we group up in a single unit.(9:08) We start pushing to advance the ball and the defense's job is to come in. (9:12) They try to stop us from moving forward. (9:14) It's kind of like when a running back gets stood up in football and the linemen try to move the pile like that, but we're just a little more organized about it.(9:22) And here we are like five meters out from scoring. (9:26) It's very much a boiler room. (9:28) It's where the big guys thrive.(9:30) This was my moment. (9:31) I mean, I'm like drooling here on the field thing. (9:33) Let's go, Rob, drive this thing in.(9:35) But then as I do that, the opposing players, they just started making these illegal moves, but the referee wasn't calling anything. (9:42) So initially three players came in from the side of the mall, which is an infraction. (9:47) You can't do that, but the ref's not calling it.(9:49) And then their number eight comes in and he binds my head in a headlock. (9:52) So he's got my chin kind of pinned down to my chest, automatic yellow or red card in rugby. (9:58) If you do that, you're gone.(10:00) But who knows? (10:01) The ref isn't calling it. (10:02) Who knows if he sees it?(10:03) Who knows if he doesn't? (10:04) But I'm just thinking there's only only two things you can do in a situation like this as an athlete. (10:10) And one is you stand up and you throw your arms out to the side and you go, hey, ref, what's going on?(10:14) You're going to call this thing or number two, you just keep moving forward. (10:17) And that was my decision. (10:19) Just keep moving forward.(10:20) So I got my shoulder level kind of down, you know, back flat forward. (10:24) Legs are turning. (10:26) Chin kind of pinned down to my chest.(10:28) Then another guy chops me down by my legs. (10:30) So I start falling. (10:31) And this guy continues to improve his arm lock around my neck.(10:35) As hard as I try, I can't get my head up. (10:37) And I'm already closed my eyes. (10:39) I grip my teeth.(10:40) Top of my head makes impact with the ground. (10:42) Body keeps going forward. (10:44) My forehead slams against my chest pinned there, literally nose in my sternum.(10:50) I feel this God awful crunch in my neck and then just poof pins and needles everywhere. (10:56) I did not lose consciousness for one second. (11:00) I'm completely conscious throughout all of this.(11:02) But I opened my eyes after making that impact. (11:05) And I am 100% numb and motionless for about my collarbone down. (11:11) I just think I woke up in my worst nightmare.(11:15) This can't be real. (11:17) This can't be happening. (11:20) These are just the terrors of the earth that I'm experiencing right now.(11:25) And I don't think there's any escaping this. (11:29) And in just seconds, I'm thinking my life might be done. (11:35) Because I had seen stories where this happened to people before.(11:40) And I thought back to a Rutgers football player, Eric Legrand. (11:45) He was playing special teams. (11:48) Gosh, this was probably like 15-ish years ago.(11:51) And he kind of mistimed tackle, broke his neck. (11:56) And he's got the spirit of an absolute warrior. (11:59) But he deals with very significant paralysis.(12:02) He couldn't breathe at one point. (12:04) And you know, he's a quadriplegic. (12:08) And I started thinking, there's no way that can be me.(12:11) I mean, there's just no way. (12:12) I have all these dreams and plans in my life. (12:15) And I kind of envisioned this future where I would just get pointed out to look out of a window in my house.(12:23) My mom would spoon feed me, help me go to the bathroom, you know, all those kinds of things. (12:29) And then one day she's going to die. (12:31) And then I'm just going to have some caretaker sort of just keeping me alive until I just die, unaccomplished and alone.(12:40) And there's nothing I can do about it. (12:42) I mean, I could not move or feel anything below my neck. (12:46) And the trainers and doctors, you know, they're doing their tests.(12:49) Can you feel this? (12:50) Can you move this? (12:50) Everything is just no, no, no.(12:54) And then I get stretched out of the field and I'm rushed over to the hospital. (12:58) We take all of our medical imaging, CT scan, MRI, x-ray. (13:02) Were you in pain at this point?

Marcus Arredondo

(13:03) Were you experiencing pain or was it the absence of pain that was?

Robert Paylor

(13:06) I mean, like my neck hurt, but you know, I had a lot of adrenaline pumping at that point. (13:13) So I had broken a lot of bones before specifically playing football and in the heat of competition, it wasn't like, you know, the sharp pain or like, ah, it's like, it's just this numbing feeling where you're like, oh, that didn't feel good. (13:27) Like, but can I play through this thing?(13:29) And with my neck, it was that very familiar feeling of a broken bone, but in my neck, I just, and that connected to the disconnection from my body. (13:40) I just knew immediately that this was really, really bad. (13:43) But then as, as that adrenaline started to wear off, there was some, yeah, very intense pain in my neck.(13:48) And they did put me on a morphine drip and stuff, but it just didn't seem to do anything. (13:53) But the real pain I was experiencing was just that mental, emotional trauma thinking, how am I going to do this? (14:02) And when my doctor comes back, he doesn't make it any easier.(14:06) He says, Robert, your injury is bad, really bad. (14:10) And the reality is you'll never walk again. (14:12) You'll never move your hands and we're going to do our best so that one day you can do something like pick up a piece of pizza and bring it to your face.(14:20) And if you can do that, you made it. (14:21) If you can just feed yourself, you beat all the odds. (14:25) And then he recommends surgery to me, a spinal fusion surgery.(14:28) He explains that the disc in between my C5 and C6 vertebrae ruptured into my spinal cord and that I had fracturing at the C5 and the C6 vertebrae. (14:36) So that damage that was done to my spinal cord might only continue to increase unless we perform this emergency spinal fusion surgery to essentially permanently cast these vertebrae together that had been broken. (14:48) And he said it was my best chance at stability and a semblance of recovery, but it was a potentially life-threatening surgery.(14:55) Now, at the time I had 103 degree fever. (14:58) I picked up up to 105 at one point right when I got out of that MRI. (15:02) So my body is just kind of freaking out, you know, nervous system is disconnected.(15:06) And beyond that, the surgery is performed to the front of the neck. (15:09) I have a scar right here. (15:10) They move your esophagus over so they can operate on your spinal cord.(15:13) There's a lot of important real estate right here. (15:16) I mean, if you're just a little bit off, things get bad very quick. (15:20) And my doctor told me I had one hour to make a choice.(15:24) So I'm sitting here, I'm thinking, okay, what do I do? (15:28) I want to get better for sure, but I don't want to die today. (15:32) That's like priority number one.(15:35) But I think that this is going to be okay. (15:37) I don't think he would recommend this to me if it was like some 50-50 chance kind of thing or something. (15:42) So I'm feeling pretty good about going to this surgery, but I want to cover my bases.(15:47) And my faith is very important to me, always has been. (15:51) And in this moment, I knew that I needed God with me through this injury. (15:56) And I'm Catholic.(15:57) So I asked, I wanted to ask my spiritual director that a priest be sent over so I could receive the sacrament of anointing the sick, essentially like my last rites. (16:05) I mean, just like if I make it through this, I'll have God with me through this journey. (16:09) I'm really inviting him into this.(16:11) But if I die, my soul will be cleansed for heaven. (16:14) And this is just the reality of what's going on. (16:17) Here I am 20 years old in this hospital bed.(16:21) And my spiritual director, he says that he'll send a priest out. (16:24) But before he hangs up the phone, he gives me this really sage advice that just has carried me ever since. (16:31) And I've gone back to it when I'm in those powerless situations.(16:35) And he said, throughout this journey, there's gonna be a lot of things you can't control. (16:38) But the one thing you'll always have control over is your mindset. (16:42) So your positivity, your ambition, your willingness to wake up every day and fight this is up to you.(16:49) This injury can't take that away from you. (16:52) And when I go back to that moment, I got to think like, I didn't have a lot. (16:56) I didn't have the odds on my side, or a doctor saying that everything was going to be okay, or the signs of life showing up.(17:04) But at that time, and every moment since then, I've had that ability to choose to keep moving forward. (17:12) And I think we all need to spend some time thinking about that in our lives, where we're going through these really overwhelming situations, and we just don't know what to do. (17:22) Just realize you always have this ability to control your mindset, keep moving forward access that inner mental toughness.(17:30) That is something that never escapes you. (17:33) As long as you can think as long as you can breathe, you can control your mindset. (17:38) That really helped me.(17:39) It gave me some mental clarity going into the surgery. (17:42) So I just kind of said my prayers. (17:44) That priest comes over with my family all in the room, and I received the sacrament.(17:51) We go out, you know, they roll me into the operating room. (17:54) I say goodbye to my family, they put that gas mask on me, I start counting down from 100, and they got to like 98, 97, you know, lights are out, and I wake up that next day. (18:08) I'm kind of hoping like, they're just gonna say like, Hey, Robert, we found this like kink in the cord, you know, you're totally fine.(18:15) Just go ahead and walk out of here. (18:16) Don't feel don't forget to leave a tip on your way out. (18:20) It was not the case.(18:22) You know, I wake up like this is real. (18:24) This wasn't a bad dream. (18:25) And it was in this period that I really had to fight for my life.(18:28) And I got pneumonia very early on. (18:31) But the problem was, I couldn't cough, my diaphragm was mostly paralyzed. (18:35) So we would have to get someone in the room to just slam down on my chest.(18:39) I mean, it was like, almost chest compressions, really, really forceful, so that I could clear my lungs. (18:44) But I had doctors tell me I might not even survive. (18:48) And it felt like death was with me in that room, just waiting for me to quit.(18:53) Because every three hours, a respiratory therapist would come in. (18:57) And then I would breathe in these fumes that would help loosen the mucus off my lungs. (19:01) And then they'd start doing those like chest compressions, it would usually be like a half hour, sometimes it would be three hours long, we just roll into the next one, man.(19:08) Every two hours, a nurse would come in, they would rotate my body so that I wouldn't get a skin sore. (19:13) And every one hour, someone would come in to check my vital signs. (19:16) I just didn't sleep ever.(19:19) And I was so tired. (19:20) But at the same time, I was afraid to fall asleep. (19:23) Because if I did, maybe I'd have this coughing fit, and I wouldn't wake up and I would die.(19:28) I mean, it was it was really scary. (19:30) And out on the fact that I couldn't swallow anything. (19:33) I've lost 60 pounds in a month, 32 pounds a day.(19:37) Just I was watching my body wither away in front of my eyes, and there was nothing I could do. (19:42) But I kept coming back to that control your mindset piece, like you just keep moving forward. (19:47) If you want to be able to breathe, you need to do this therapy.(19:49) If you want to be able to eat, let them put this tube up your nose and down to your stomach. (19:54) I mean, it was just kind of do or die type situations. (19:57) And eventually I get through that.(19:59) And then I go over to a new hospital called Craig Hospital in Denver, Colorado, cutting edge. (20:05) These people are amazing. (20:06) But I showed up and I really wasn't expecting a pretty picture.(20:10) Everybody's dealing with the same situation as me. (20:12) Many of them are even worse. (20:14) But I show up and the staff and patients, they've all got smiles on their faces.(20:18) And the patients are like, Robert, welcome. (20:21) You're going to love it here. (20:22) And you kind of want to, like, grab him by the shoulders and shake him and be like, you're supposed to be sad and depressed.(20:27) Are they drugging you? (20:29) Like twice. (20:30) If you need me to help you get the heck out of here.(20:31) But that was the reality of the place. (20:34) This staff, they looked at us and they saw potential, not broken bodies. (20:38) And I remember my first conversation with my doctor.(20:40) He said, Robert, what happened to you is terrible, but we don't know where you're going to progress from here. (20:45) You might walk out of these doors one day and you very well might not, but we're going to guarantee you, we will give you everything that modern science and medicine has to optimize your recovery. (20:54) You've got the full strength and support of this team.(20:57) And they gave me like that little bit of hope, you know, like that chance. (21:02) And I went for it. (21:04) It was eight to nine hours of very intense rehabilitation a day, hardest I've ever worked at something in my life.(21:10) But I went from coming in that hospital. (21:13) I couldn't move anything below my chest to where I could twitch a finger. (21:17) And eventually I twitched a toe.(21:20) And then a year later, I got up on my own two feet in my walker and I walked out of the hospital doors and I went back to Cal. (21:28) I had two years after I went back, I graduated with my degree. (21:31) I stood up to receive my diploma, just throwing that cheap skin in the air.(21:36) I'm married now as of November, 2023. (21:39) And now I've found so much meaning in my life, sharing the story, sharing the tools that have helped me in overcoming this intense challenge that others can use to overcome what paralyzes them in their lives. (21:51) So that's like the longest elevator speech ever for describing how this journey's turned out.

Marcus Arredondo

(21:57) But yeah, that's a lot to unpack and a lot to digest, even listening to it. (22:02) I have, I'm well into your book. (22:04) I was familiar with all of this, but to hear it live.(22:07) It's, you know, I can't help but think I had a son two and a half years ago and I just can't help but revisit how your parents are, were through all this and how they are now. (22:22) I mean, looking at you and your determination and your book and your speaking gigs and finding new meaning and purpose and, you know, finding a life with someone else, all I think is reassuring and I'm sure gives them a lot of pride. (22:36) Oh yeah.(22:37) But it's really tough for me even to mentally envision how they were, certainly in the throes of each of those nights. (22:48) But at the time of the event, do you recall or have you spoken about that series of events with them?

Robert Paylor

(22:56) Absolutely. (22:57) I mean, they were there at the match, you know, they were there to support me when I got hurt. (23:01) And, uh, as my mom describes it, you know, they didn't have a good angle of really seeing just how this mall collapsed and everything from there, but you know, there was a lot of bodies on the ground and then all of them got up but one.(23:15) And it was such an awkward position that my body was laying in, you know, my, my head's like contorted. (23:22) I looked like a corpse and my mom says she literally thought to herself, I think a player just died on the field. (23:29) And then she's figuring out like, oh my gosh, don't let this be Robert.(23:33) And it is. (23:35) And my dad, he wasn't in the bleachers at that point. (23:38) He was more, he was down kind of like on the fence line to the field and he saw that it was me and he just, he drops to his knees.(23:47) And I think the hardest thing I've ever gone through throughout this entire situation was seeing them on that field. (23:54) Um, yeah, I was, I tried to be a really good kid and I tried to be really strong for everyone. (24:02) Like show that strength that I had.(24:06) And in that moment I had no strength and I dreaded the pain that, that this would cause them knowing that it's really going to probably, it's going to be there for the rest of our lives. (24:18) And I remember my dad goes on his knees right next to me and he grabs my hand and I can't feel it. (24:27) And my mom is right behind me and them just saying, Robert, we love you.(24:34) We will always be here for you. (24:37) I'm weeping my eyes out. (24:39) And the only thing I could say was I love you more than anything in the world.(24:43) And they sure lived up to that promise that they would always be there for me. (24:48) And when I was in the hospital in that initial period with pneumonia, I couldn't swallow. (24:53) My mom slept on a chair by my bedside every single night for two months, just sleeping in a chair and I needed her presence there.(25:01) Um, I mean, number one, just to survive. (25:04) She was oftentimes the one doing those chest compressions to help me get that mucus out of my lungs. (25:11) Cause at first the nurses said, no, I'm sorry, you can't do this.(25:14) And she's like, I'm not just going to stand here and watch my son die. (25:17) So she got in there and, uh, and got after it. (25:21) And I mean, I wouldn't have survived that period without her.(25:24) There's no question that I wouldn't have made it. (25:26) And my dad as well. (25:28) I mean, just like hitting phones, getting me into Craig hospital.(25:31) It's amazing like how much insurance fights this kind of stuff. (25:34) Um, I mean, he's just going to bat on that every day and they just, they continue to be there for me. (25:39) So I think that those ways that they stepped up really helped.

Marcus Arredondo

(25:42) Well, the two things that stand out in, from your book about each of your parents was your, your dad's relentless pursuit of getting you into Craigs and the phone calls and getting insurance to cooperate in you paying some homage to the salespeople out there in the world that, that do that for a living. (25:59) And, uh, it was great to see how you, uh, translated that skillset, but your mom not to take anything away from her compressing your stomach because that's meaningful. (26:11) But what stood out really, uh, more than anything else was prepping your friends and your brother to, uh, enter the room with a certain disposition, not, um, to come in, you can't be crying.(26:25) You got to keep yourself strong because this is not where you make it about you. (26:31) Uh, I don't think she, I'm putting words in her mouth. (26:33) She didn't say that, but it was very clear.(26:35) This is about Robert. (26:37) And if you're going to come in, you got to come in with a different type of energy.

Robert Paylor

(26:41) Yeah. (26:42) It changed all of us too. (26:44) I, cause so the first was the most difficult one was with my brother.(26:47) He's my little brother. (26:49) So again, you know, I'm trying to like be that role model figure for him to show that strength. (26:53) This is the weakest moment in my life.(26:55) He actually wasn't at the match. (26:57) He was taking the sat that day. (26:58) So he got driven down from Sacramento to Santa Clara to see me before the surgery by my extended family.(27:04) And here I, I told my mom, I was like, you have to tell him he's just not allowed to cry in here. (27:10) I know that's, that's like the hardest thing I could possibly ask right now. (27:14) But if I see that it is going to shatter me and I'm just, I'm trying to keep it together right now, but I want to see him.(27:20) And not only did he not cry, I mean, he held the phone in front of me as I FaceTime called my best friends. (27:27) He wrote out messages to my rugby team, to a religious retreat group that I had done in high school as well. (27:34) He was the strongest person in the room on that day when it came to how he stepped up.(27:40) And we haven't really talked about it in your sense, but he deserves a lot of credit in that moment and, and then my friends. (27:47) But I think like their expectations of what they would see were so different from what they actually saw to, you know, when they were in that waiting room, it's very somber. (27:58) I mean, it's like, you're going to a funeral, oh gosh.(28:03) And all my teammates are there. (28:04) They want to see me. (28:05) This is just one day after my injury, just the day after.(28:09) And the first friends who came into the room were my best buddies, Tyler Douglas and Chase Bixby. (28:15) And Tyler had just gotten into the business school over at Cal, which I was working on my application for. (28:21) It's really competitive.(28:22) You got to do an essay and you got to have all the prerequisites, stuff like that. (28:26) And Tyler comes in and we're just like joking. (28:29) And I tell one of the first things I say is I am going to be able to write a hell of an application, application essay now.(28:36) Like this is going to be the essay to end all essays, this story. (28:39) And I think it just like, I automatically showed that I'm still me, you know, I'm like, yes, something very significant has happened, but this hasn't changed who I am. (28:49) And I can still just be a guy hanging out with my friends, bantering back and forth.(28:55) And I needed to lean on them in a lot of ways, but I think they were able to lean on me as well through just like keeping that sense of humor and not losing that sense of who I was.

Marcus Arredondo

(29:06) So I want to talk about identity. (29:07) I'm glad that you're bringing this up because I think we could spend a lot of time talking about all the events and I don't want to discount it, but I sort of want to focus more on what you've done, which is a lot more inspiring above and beyond you having just endured that. (29:23) And I only recently came across Joseph Campbell.(29:26) There's, I've talked about this before. (29:27) There's a six part documentary series on, on Prime TV is from a 1980 something interview with a, with a journalist where he talks a lot about the power of myth is what the title of it. (29:40) And it's related to religion, religion throughout different worlds, but cultural religion, not just you know, from, from Judaism to Islam to Christianity, but also native religions and the stories we tell ourselves and how that, how connected that is to identity.(29:58) And there's a, you start a chapter with a Joseph Campbell phrase, which is, you must be willing to leave the life that you planned in order to find the one waiting for you. (30:07) And I'll, I'm going to, I'm going to land this because I want to transition back to you, but it's super fascinating. (30:11) And this was part of the impetus of actually starting the show was witnessing a young, an infant turned into a baby to toddler, how their identity, who they are starts to reveal themselves.(30:23) It's not just that they are adding skillsets. (30:25) It's that there is a component of their expression, their way of thinking that sort of blossoms and blooms. (30:33) There's a reason that springtime is, you know, a good analogy for this because it's, it's coming from within.(30:40) And I have spoken to a number of people who have faced life and death, an explosive ordnance disposal technician, airplane, aerobatic pilot, others who've been in war, people who suffer from PTSD, a number of these things, but they have come face to face, not dissimilar to you with effectively in some way or another hitting rock bottom or losing everything. (31:06) And I think the consequence of that really hinges on that mindset that you referenced, which I do want to focus on a little bit, but I want to hear how you think about that revelation of who, what you're made out of, and that being somewhat of a by-product of a death of a former self. (31:28) I think this is what's most fascinating to me about all of our iterations.(31:32) We must be willing to bury some of the conceptions we have about what we had in store. (31:41) For you, it would have been going on to continue to play, to continue to be a physical specimen, to push your body. (31:49) But you are being faced with the real ultimate test, which is that there is no strength greater than that which is buried inside your head.(31:59) But even your brain is not you. (32:00) So not, you know, what is you? (32:02) So I'm laying a lot of groundwork.(32:05) I'm interested where you go with it. (32:06) I'll follow you wherever you take it. (32:07) But I'm curious what comments you have as it relates to developing your identity, identifying parts of who you were that may not have presented itself in so strong a way.(32:19) Yeah. (32:19) I'll leave it to you to sort of feel that.

Robert Paylor

(32:22) This is like the best question I've ever been asked. (32:24) I've never been asked this before, and I absolutely love it. (32:26) So I love that quote by Joseph Campbell, and it rings true in a way that I think it really took me like years to really figure out throughout this journey because having this injury was like being born into a new life.(32:42) I mean, everything was unrecognizable. (32:45) And it really, it felt like that when I opened my eyes on that turf to just think like, this isn't even, this isn't the life that I've known anymore. (32:55) This is like a reborn type of moment.(32:59) And it was so hard to not just want everything that I had right back and just kind of like wish all this away and just be like, let me just restart May 6, 2017 when that guy puts his arm around my neck. (33:11) I'm just going to punch him in the gut and we're going to keep playing this game. (33:15) And yeah, I mean, obviously I couldn't do that and I couldn't change time and I just needed to keep moving forward.(33:24) Luckily, there were a lot of things from that previous life that I could take with me into this new one. (33:30) So much of that was rooted in athletics. (33:33) I think of like our definition of mental toughness on the Cal rugby team is the ability to focus on the next most important thing.(33:41) So in a rugby context, that would be like, ball hits your hands, you know, goes forward to the other team, you drop it. (33:48) Okay, mistake happened. (33:49) Are you just going to like pound sand and get all mad?(33:52) Or are you going to be able to put that to the side, realize it for what it was, it was a mistake. (33:57) Now think of, okay, I got to tackle this guy, or I got to get ready for the next play. (34:01) The mentally weak person is just going to be all upset with the things that have happened in their life, not really able to respond.(34:07) The mentally tough person is going to put that to the side. (34:09) What's the next most important thing? (34:11) That's what they're focusing on in mental toughness.(34:14) And that's something that I really had to access. (34:16) But even just like that general feeling of growth doesn't come without discomfort. (34:22) If I wasn't uncomfortable, I wasn't growing.(34:25) And I, I had that familiarity from an athletic perspective that I was able to translate into this new one. (34:31) And then I needed to find a lot of new stuff too. (34:34) Because whenever I talked to someone who's has a spinal cord injury, I tried to give them this advice of don't just try to do the things that you used to really enjoy doing and that gave you a lot of purpose and meaning in your life.(34:48) You need to find new things as well. (34:50) And really, really push harder for that than getting back to the old stuff. (34:54) Because perspective really comes into it's like the key to happiness through situations like this.(35:01) And I think for anybody to, to where if I were to go back and I would just try to play, you know, I don't know, like sports that I used to be able to play, like, you know, in a wheelchair, like they have wheelchair rugby and stuff like that. (35:14) Maybe I'd be like, man, I don't know, I'm not that good at this. (35:18) And I used to be I used to be amazing at this where I used to be one of the best in the country.(35:21) And now here I am. (35:22) And I don't have that. (35:23) And you get upset.(35:24) And you just you see these familiar situations with your disability, and it can really bring you down. (35:31) But it was through speaking has been the biggest thing that's that's helped me really embrace this new life, this one that's waiting for me. (35:40) I remember when I gave my first speech, like I realized it right at that moment.(35:45) And I was at Cal, I got invited to go speak to a business class over there. (35:51) Kind of on this message that like, Robert, your your challenge is very visible. (35:55) But we all have something that we're dealing with in our life.(35:57) Yeah, share this story, share the tools that have helped you. (36:00) So I get to go with my rugby coach, Jack Clark, who's a fantastic speaker and coach. (36:04) And we put together this starting script that can like get me going.(36:09) And I'm delivering this thing. (36:11) I got my notes, you know, like down in front of me, I'm like, I'm kind of reading off of it and looking up and the audience, the class, they're loving it. (36:19) I mean, they're laughing, crying, standing ovation.(36:23) They're confiding in me afterwards, like one on one, these really intense things that they're going through and how this is helping them. (36:29) I go back to my dorm room that day. (36:31) And I'm like, this is it.(36:34) This is that life that was waiting for me. (36:37) This is the gift that this injury gave me. (36:40) I would not have this if I didn't break my neck.(36:44) And I've just I've rolled with it since then. (36:47) I'm not just speaking, but sharing my story just publicly online and in shows and things like that. (36:53) And I'm just saying like, the more I share this, the more good comes from it.(36:57) Honestly, Marcus, I mean this with utmost sincerity. (37:00) I wouldn't even change what happened to me. (37:03) If I had the genie's magic lantern, I could go back to that day and just restart it like nothing ever happened.(37:09) I wouldn't. (37:10) I couldn't. (37:11) I would be wishing away an ability to impact people's lives that I never would have had if I wasn't playing rugby and this didn't happen for me.(37:20) So it took years for me to really come to that realization, that inner peace of this life that I have. (37:26) But it's funny. (37:28) It's like the weaknesses that I have now are my greatest strengths.(37:32) It's through sharing that vulnerability that I'm able to help people. (37:37) I wouldn't want to wish those weaknesses away now. (37:39) Do I want to get better?(37:40) Do I want to walk again? (37:42) Hell yeah. (37:42) I work at it every day and I can walk 500 yards now.(37:45) I keep pushing on it, you know, 29 or 29 hundred and 57 days later. (37:52) But does that mean that I wish that none of this happened in the first place? (37:56) Absolutely not.(37:57) And it's it's through realizing that I needed to come to terms with this new life and embrace the gifts that it's giving me, that I could really feel that inner peace and then make an impact on others' lives.

Marcus Arredondo

(38:09) So I want to talk about a couple of things you just brought up. (38:11) Accountability, one, an opportunity, the accountability. (38:15) You're posting pretty much almost every day or very frequently.(38:18) And I want to talk about that. (38:20) But before we talk about either of those things, there's something that keeps coming to mind as you're talking about the speaking component. (38:27) And I would think, what year was that when you gave that speech?(38:30) It was 2018. (38:33) 2018. (38:33) So that was soon after the incident, but that has manifested into a book, which came out in 2025.(38:39) Correct? (38:40) That's yeah.

Robert Paylor

(38:40) May 6, which was the eight year anniversary.

Marcus Arredondo

(38:42) It was on May 6. (38:43) Wow. (38:44) That's cool.(38:45) Yeah. (38:45) Wow. (38:46) So that's almost a month ago, sort of to the day.(38:52) So eight years later, and there's a lot of stuff that's happened between one year after and eight years after. (38:57) Yeah. (38:58) But I have to think, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but even the act of writing that speech and talking about it is the compulsion to process things through some form of writing or whether that writing is verbal or actually on the paper.(39:15) But to organize those thoughts and to actually put those thoughts into perspective relative to where you were, where you are, where some of the other people were. (39:25) You also talk about the people who were involved with the accident. (39:30) You have effectively a chapter that I'd like to address maybe before we get finished.(39:37) But I'm wondering if you have any insight or thoughts as it relates to how that might apply not just to somebody who's been in an unfortunate circumstance like yourself, but even mundane stuff, how that skillset or that development of introspection has played a role in your own emotional convalescence.

Robert Paylor

(40:02) Yeah. (40:03) Huge. (40:03) Huge.(40:04) And I think something that also helped is I wasn't just writing it for myself and speaking for myself. (40:11) I was doing it for others. (40:12) I think that really helped me change my orientation of how I view things too.(40:17) And it added a different level of accountability to it as well because I would think a lot about things that have helped me early on. (40:26) It was very apparent that perspective had served me in many great ways to be able to look back on the things that I've overcome or the things that others are currently overcoming and compare it to what I go through now and think like, I've got it pretty good. (40:39) And there's a phrase in that book I use called compared to what, that's something that happened really early on.(40:44) I didn't have to write to find that. (40:46) But there were a lot of things that I did need to spend that intentional time putting pen to paper on and going back in those really low moments that I could start to see the gifts that it was giving me. (40:58) And one was just realizing how difficult everything was back then.(41:03) I mean, it took me a long time to write that chapter on just the day of my injury. (41:11) My kind of phrase that was in my head throughout writing this was no tears in the writer, no tears in the reader. (41:18) I needed to myself go to those dark moments to be able to put someone in that room or on that field there with me and to pour out all that emotion that they can then feel themselves.(41:31) That wasn't easy. (41:32) But it's through seeing those really dark moments that you can see just how bright and light things are since then. (41:40) So you know, those were tough days.(41:43) They weren't good days. (41:44) There's no way around that. (41:46) That wasn't a good day.(41:48) Yep. (41:48) But it's overcoming that and finding meaning in that that you find just how amazing things are now. (41:56) So really coming to terms with that in a lot of ways was like a grieving process too.(42:01) Just to really see like this had happened. (42:04) But then from that being able to see the gifts that come back from it. (42:08) I mean, every year when May 6 hits on the anniversary of my injury is kind of a bittersweet day.(42:13) And in a lot of ways, it makes it more vivid. (42:16) And I'll look at the clock and I'll think like, okay, like 730 in the morning, I was probably getting up around this time getting dressed for the last time with ease. (42:26) And you know, I look at the clock at like noon, that was about kickoff.(42:29) And I'm thinking just like that last sprint I had on kickoff, that's the last time I've ever run at full speed. (42:35) And then I think, you know, just a few minutes later, that this is probably when I broke my neck. (42:41) And I'm thinking of myself in an MRI machine, I'm going through those moments.(42:45) And initially, it was more difficult. (42:47) Now, it's more of a sense of pride to think like, I did that. (42:51) Yeah, I went through that.(42:52) And here I am. (42:53) So there's that component that was really cathartic about it all. (42:57) But then really like trying to draw principles and putting it like in that very permanent written format, helped me a lot to be able to see the gifts that have come throughout these challenges and being able to share that with others.(43:10) And now when I get to see people tell me about how it's helped them, you know, just like really specific stories or principles, how it's serving them through a situation that they're dealing with right now. (43:20) I'm just like, I'm so I'm so lucky, honestly, to be able to share this.

Marcus Arredondo

(43:24) I can't help but think that that accountability aspect is tied to that chapter, being part of something bigger than yourself, you use that chapter really to talk a lot more about Cal. (43:34) Yeah. (43:34) But I think it's analogous to something else in all of our lives.(43:37) I'm wondering what advice you might give to I guess age is is sort of irrelevant, but I'm thinking, you know, a younger person trying to find and I think this is also tethered to purpose. (43:49) Right. (43:49) You talk a lot about purpose.(43:51) How do you define purpose? (43:53) And how would you suggest someone tether themselves to something bigger than themselves or be accountable to something bigger than themselves? (44:05) And so let's just say, you know, run of the mill, mundane, normal day to day life.

Robert Paylor

(44:11) Yeah, yeah. (44:11) I mean, I'd say first thing, anything you do, you have to be in a team. (44:15) And that can that can just be one other person.(44:18) But it can't just be yourself. (44:21) When all we're accountable to is ourselves. (44:23) It's really easy to drop those commitments and think like, ah, just take a day off.(44:28) You know, I don't need to go to the gym. (44:30) I don't need to get up early. (44:32) I don't need to get on my computer when I don't want to.(44:35) But when you have just at least that one person that you're working with on something, we've all seen in our lives how it really starts to bring out the best in us and helps us be more disciplined and accountable in our lives. (44:47) And, you know, I look back to like, like Coach Billups, my rugby coach, who's the associate head coach of Cal rugby and our strength and conditioning coach, how he worked out with me five days a week upon my two years of returning to Cal and getting my degree. (45:01) Who does that?(45:03) Nobody does that. (45:04) He's the second winningest rugby coach in collegiate American rugby history. (45:10) That's like Nick Saban being down in the gym, helping an injured athlete recover from a catastrophic injury.(45:17) I just think when you have people like that in your corner, how can you not be more fueled with that passion, that purpose to just attack something? (45:26) So I think it's going out and it's looking for those organizations that are really connected with your values. (45:31) I think it's I think it's individualistic and not just your values, but your passions.(45:35) What do you really want to achieve in your life? (45:38) Find the people that are on that road as well. (45:41) Hopefully they've been doing a lot longer than you and get with them.(45:44) And I just think we just have to avoid spending that time in solidarity when we're just like silently grinding by ourself. (45:53) I think I think that's good, but it should be that for the purpose of eventually connecting with another person, being able to review that and go through it. (46:01) I certainly find that, you know, in my just business endeavors that I'm going through right now and speaking, you know, it's me, it's my story.(46:08) It's kind of it can be this one man team thing if I want to take it that way. (46:12) I try to be really intentional about finding people who are in this industry that can be mentors to me, partners in this business to keep it moving forward. (46:21) Could I do it on my own?(46:22) Yeah, but definitely not as good as I can. (46:24) If I'm with a team. (46:25) I think that's something that's just really important for all of us to be aware of.(46:28) But just find that team that's doing it and ask if you can be connected with them. (46:32) It doesn't have to be formal, just even like conversations help.

Marcus Arredondo

(46:35) Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that quite a bit that you talk a little bit about selflessness in your book, and you actually make a distinction, which I'm grateful to because I have trouble with the idea of true altruism. (46:47) I actually think that even when we do something kind for somebody else, it makes us feel good or I think that's a good thing, too, by the way. (46:54) I absolutely, absolutely.(46:55) I mean, look, if somebody is making a $30 million charitable donation toward but they're, you know, arguably a bad person. (47:04) It doesn't take away the benefit of what they're doing for the charity, right? (47:08) I mean, so to be mutually aligned with that selflessness, I think is actually a really (47:13) terrific thing and the energy I would imagine that you get from the audience members who (47:22) listen to your story, either through your speeches or your TED talk or even your book, (47:29) help to really bind you to that idea that something you are serving a purpose, you are (47:34) providing that inspiration, which I would hope in turn gives you some of that energy, (47:40) which I mean, two, three thousand days in a row of just thinking about wiggling your (47:47) toe or moving your finger to actually manifest that as well, I'm sure is beneficial and (47:52) encouraging to you. (47:54) But on those days where you're tired, man, you're exhausted. (47:59) Everybody does it.(48:00) Everybody's tired. (48:01) But the challenges you face are oftentimes greater than those without what happened to you. (48:08) So I guess, how do you, and we'll move off of this, but how would you suggest finding that type of connectivity, that momentum building aspect?(48:20) You mentioned aligning yourself with other people. (48:23) But for somebody who's, and like myself, who tends to be more introverted, who tends to get more in his head, who ruminates, right? (48:29) Like to a large degree, I say, if I'm not ruminating enough, I'm not processing it enough.(48:35) I'm not doing it. (48:36) And it is a, it's almost a virus in a lot of ways. (48:39) And that's what I think I was taken with, with some of your writing about.(48:43) You have to have the mental diet to actually put together your mindset that puts you forward, which is a lot easier said than done when facing, I think, the challenges you had faced.

Robert Paylor

(48:58) It certainly is. (49:00) It certainly is. (49:01) I mean, yeah, the mental diet component is huge.(49:03) I think that's a muscle that we very much need to train, be more aware of the quality of information that's coming into our mind. (49:10) It's critically important. (49:11) But I think I like that reflect reflection that you had on like selflessness, that there's a selfish component to selflessness.(49:20) I think that's, that's a hundred percent true. (49:22) And that's, that's good to understand just how can we motivate ourselves? (49:27) What are gifts that we can get out of, of giving?(49:30) And I think that we need to do a mental inventory on the things that we've done in our past where we decided to give when we were part of something bigger than ourselves. (49:39) I would be shocked to see situations where like, I really just wish I did that by that by myself, or really wish I didn't have that selfless purpose in my life. (49:49) You know, I think of especially like in the, in the case of parenthood, while I'm not a parent yet, I've never heard someone say like, Oh, it's a total regret.(49:58) I wish I was just doing this alone. (49:59) I mean, it's the greatest gift that anybody's ever received. (50:02) So I think that like, that selflessness component is just, it's absolutely critical.(50:07) It's completely changed my life and the way that I view the impact that I can make on the world. (50:13) Because if I didn't share this story, everything that I would go through would just be hardship. (50:18) And it would just be difficulties.(50:20) I mean, you know, here I am anybody watching, they can see me I'm moving my hands like an Italian over here. (50:25) I mean, I just like, you know, I'm doing pretty good up here in the upper body. (50:28) But I mean, I'm in a wheelchair right now.(50:30) And I've spent every day of the last eight years in this wheelchair. (50:33) And in fact, the statistics say that I will spend the rest of my life in this wheelchair. (50:38) This is something that's still ongoing.(50:39) And it's not easy, I don't get a second of a break from paralysis. (50:44) But it's through sharing this story that I'm able to receive those gifts. (50:48) And you asked about like, what's like the practical step that you can take to start connecting with that?(50:54) I think it's just sharing it. (50:56) And that's, that's what I did. (50:57) I started out with a GoFundMe page that we had.(51:00) As you can imagine, breaking your neck is not a good financial decision. (51:03) We needed help. (51:05) So my friend's mom, Tyler Douglas, his mom set up a GoFundMe page to help pay for these rehab expenses.(51:11) And in that, you know, we'd share updates of things that I was doing, how I was progressing. (51:16) And I started being connected to that thing that's bigger than myself and those selfless, those selfless outcomes. (51:24) And, you know, people are confiding in me really intense things.(51:28) They're like, Robert, I have stage four cancer right now. (51:31) And my time is measured in months, weeks, what I would give to just have time. (51:38) But I see you and your fight and your perseverance.(51:41) You give me hope.

Marcus Arredondo

(51:42) Yeah.

Robert Paylor

(51:43) Or people who are dealing with loss of loved ones. (51:45) I mean, really difficult situations. (51:47) Every time I send out a message, I don't even then I'll do my little my little 10 second workout videos that I do every day.(51:54) And every time I just get like a little clapping hands emoji or someone who just says, like, keep pushing, Rob, it fuels me with so much. (52:02) And it doesn't take a lot. (52:03) I mean, it really only takes one.(52:05) So I think that would be like my practical advice. (52:07) If you got a goal, if you got something that you're trying to achieve, just start sharing it with others, whether that's social media, people in your family, your friends, keep people up to date, it's going to make you more accountable to your goals, and you're going to drive more purpose in it.

Marcus Arredondo

(52:20) Let's talk about opportunities real quick. (52:22) First, the experience of going to order, well, maybe second, the order of Malta. (52:27) But first, I do want to hear about your encounter with Bill Murray.

Robert Paylor

(52:30) Oh, yeah, Bill, that was so funny. (52:32) So gosh, I'm trying to think how how far into my injury it was. (52:36) It was probably about like a month, month and a half.(52:38) I'm in Craig Hospital. (52:39) And at this point, my mom had been with me like every single day throughout this, but she went back that day to Sacramento for my brother's birthday. (52:50) And my grandparents and my cousin had come into town, you know, it's Saturday, we're just kind of out and about, I came back to my hospital room, like really quick.(52:59) And then the medical director of the hospital knocks on my door, he's like, Hey, there's a visitor here to see you. (53:04) And I had had a lot of just kind of random visitors who are, you know, in rugby, or they had kind of seen my store, and they wanted to just come by and offer their support. (53:12) But I'm also thinking, like, I don't know, like, you know, I just kind of like, my grandparents are here, like, we got stuff we want to do.(53:19) And I'm like, Okay, let me go see who this is. (53:22) And it's frickin Bill Murray. (53:24) And I'm like, you're kidding me.(53:26) I just kept saying, like, no way, no way, there's no way you're standing in front of me right now. (53:31) And here he is, like, he's got kind of like that shot of whitish hair. (53:36) And I'm thinking, like, I thought that you just like levitated everywhere you go, you don't stand on the same ground as us.(53:43) I mean, this guy's a legend, right? (53:45) And he's telling all these jokes. (53:47) He like, he takes the doctor's stethoscope, and he like, he puts in his ears, he's got it on my head.(53:51) He's like, he goes from crazy thoughts in there. (53:54) It's like he's joking around. (53:55) We're playing like mercy, the game where you're like, squeeze each other's heads to say mercy.(54:00) And I mean, he was just he gave so much joy in that moment, and there were no cameras, there was no reporters there. (54:06) It was just out of the goodness of his heart. (54:08) And then just people flooded over to my room.(54:13) I couldn't get out of there for hours. (54:16) But you know, by him just given a couple hours of his day, he changed people's lives. (54:20) And he helped people who were in a really tough situation, start to smile.(54:24) So that was that was so cool. (54:25) Meeting Bill.

Marcus Arredondo

(54:26) There are probably more people who claim to have seen Bigfoot than- Exactly. (54:30) It probably is. (54:31) So I was pretty lucky for that.(54:34) But so the Order of Malta, I wanted you to share this story for the audience.

Robert Paylor

(54:40) Absolutely amazing. (54:40) So the Order of Malta is one of the oldest religious orders in the Catholic Church. (54:45) And they do pilgrimages, they help sick and injured people go to mostly Lourdes, France is like their biggest pilgrimage, which I got invited to go to exactly one year after my injury.(54:56) Lourdes is known as a place of miraculous healing. (54:59) There's been some really incredible miracles that have occurred there, where people go there with stage four cancer, they go and bathe in these waters, they come out tumors are gone. (55:08) I mean, it's like it's those really inexplicable stories.(55:12) Here I am, I'm hoping that I'm going to go I'm going to bathe in these spring waters that come down from the mountains, and I'm going to walk out and I'm going to be sprinting around town and come back and say, Hey, everybody, look at me when I come back to America. (55:24) That was that was my hope. (55:26) Now I knew the odds weren't on my side.(55:28) But I'm praying for it. (55:30) Praying for that miracle. (55:31) I go there, they have 25,000 people approximately from all over the world who are converging in this place at one time.(55:39) And I it's my turn to go bathe in these waters, they they undress you very respectfully. (55:45) And then they had me kind of like in a stretcher. (55:48) And they dunk me in the water is cold.(55:51) It's it's it's snow melt. (55:53) So it's freezing. (55:54) And my like, I get a bunch of spasms, my legs are like, shoot, now my fingers are clenching up.(56:00) And you know, they're all they're like brushing this water on me, they're all praying. (56:03) And then I come up, you know, towel dry myself off. (56:08) And physically, nothing had changed.(56:10) But I started having these experiences that really did change my life. (56:15) One was just talking to the people who were there. (56:18) And again, people with stage four cancer, what they're like, what I would give to us have time.(56:22) There's another guy who had ALS. (56:24) I don't know how he's doing now. (56:26) But at the time, the disease was progressing, it was pretty difficult for him to be able to walk his, his speech was pretty strained as well.(56:35) And here he's like, I got a beautiful wife, beautiful children, what I would give to just have more time with them. (56:42) I move less and less and less every single day to the eventual reality where I won't even be able to breathe, I won't even be able to open my eyes, but I'll be totally clear and conscious in my head. (56:51) And I'm just thinking, my goodness, I went through a really difficult period.(56:57) And this is still tough, but my life's not in jeopardy. (57:00) It's guaranteed to the same extent as any of us. (57:03) And I go and I have a couple beers with this priest over there, Father John Love.(57:08) We're talking about this perspective and being like, really, a lot of times I think people talk about comparison in a really negative light. (57:16) They say it's like what the thief of joy. (57:18) And I think that we're just using it wrong in those situations.(57:23) When you have that real sincere empathy and perspective, it's a bridge that connects you to the struggles of others. (57:29) We're talking about this, and then we come up with that phrase compared to what I'm going through a lot right now. (57:35) But compared to what, you know, there's so much I can do, there's so much I do have, that perspective really got instilled in me.(57:42) And then we hit the one year anniversary of my injury on May 6th of 2017. (57:50) And at breakfast, there was a group of people who wanted to go do this Stations of the Cross. (57:55) They're life-size, absolutely gorgeous, but you work your way up this really big hill.(57:59) It's gravel. (58:00) It is just as far from wheelchair accessible as you could possibly get. (58:04) And they're thinking like, do you want to join?(58:07) And I'm like, heck yeah, but do you know what you're signing up for? (58:10) They're like, it's okay. (58:10) It's okay.(58:11) We'll figure it out. (58:12) So there was a few volunteers, and there was this other person, they call them malads, the sick or injured people. (58:19) His name was Edgar, and he had cancer that he had just gone through chemotherapy.(58:25) He's got no hair on his head. (58:26) He usually has a unibrow, didn't have his unibrow, you know, really upbeat, like funny guy, but you could tell he was fighting for his life. (58:34) And he only had one functioning lung from this cancer as well.(58:38) Here he is pushing me up this steep gravel road as, you know, on one hand, I have these people just giving their all for me, huffing and puffing. (58:50) On the other hand, I'm witnessing just this incredible depiction of Jesus' passion and (58:57) crucifixion and His love for me, these people's love for me, coming all the way to the other (59:01) side of the world, being surrounded by people with their own challenges, their own things (59:05) that they're going through, while having this order of Malta that's bringing us together (59:09) to have this deeply intense healing experience.(59:13) And we eventually work our way to the end of it, and there's like this little cave. (59:18) And my mom and Edgar's wife decide like, we want to go check this thing out. (59:21) It didn't look very accessible.(59:23) And they come back out. (59:25) And my mom is like, she's got tears coming down her face. (59:28) She's like, you gotta find a way to get in here.(59:30) This is amazing. (59:31) And we found another way. (59:34) And there's kind of like water running along the ceiling of this cave, kind of dropping down.(59:39) And in the far end, there's this statue called the Pieta. (59:43) And it's Mary holding her then-crucified son Jesus, dead in her arms, one arm up, weeping. (59:53) My mom comes over to me, and she just, she breaks down.(59:56) I'm doing everything I can to keep it together. (59:58) Just seeing this incredible depiction of Mary's love for Jesus, and knowing all my love is for me, my mom's love for me, and what she's given me, and just like that connection there was really, there's a lot of connective tissue is very powerful. (1:00:12) Eventually, we work our way over to where all the malads from our Western region of North America get together, and we're talking about our experience.(1:00:21) And it gets to me. (1:00:22) And I'm talking about the Station of the Cross, talking about this compared to what stuff. (1:00:26) And then I eventually say for the first time with sincerity, that I might not walk again.(1:00:34) And I actually meant it. (1:00:36) And I had said it before that, but not with sincerity. (1:00:39) It was more just to get therapists off my back, because they'll just say like, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.(1:00:44) And I just, I didn't want any doubt in my mindset. (1:00:47) But in this moment, I really came to terms with it. (1:00:50) I might not walk again.(1:00:52) I started crying. (1:00:53) And I said, but that's going to be okay. (1:00:56) Because walking or not, I'm going to live a damn good life.(1:01:00) And I'm going to be a damn good man. (1:01:02) Because I have these amazing people, these living angels here to pick me up and keep me moving forward through any challenge. (1:01:11) And it was that that was my miracle, my healing that I received in Lords.(1:01:16) It comes back to that conversation we had earlier about really finding that new life that's presented itself to you that I could see. (1:01:25) This has been very difficult. (1:01:27) It's been the challenge of my life.(1:01:28) I would not choose to take this on in the beginning. (1:01:32) But I started to see that there's just these amazing people here around me that will help me get through anything. (1:01:38) And I will live a very fulfilling, good life because of them and because of this faith that I have.(1:01:45) So what an incredible experience, Heather and Lords.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:01:48) Yeah, that sounds amazing. (1:01:49) I don't know if you've read any Jim Collins, but in Good to Great, he references the Stockdale paradox. (1:01:56) Jim Stockdale was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.(1:02:00) And he references a lot of soldiers that were POWs that hoped they'd get out by Easter. (1:02:09) Easter would come and go. (1:02:10) They'd hoped that they'd get out.(1:02:11) They expected to get out by Christmas, that would come and go. (1:02:14) And their morale would continue to decline. (1:02:17) But one thing that was really in common among those who survived was this acceptance of the brutal reality that's been provided and the belief that you will prevail, nonetheless.(1:02:30) And that's a tough thing for me to square, personally, when I'm facing things. (1:02:35) But one thing that echoes in what you're saying is a little bit of a detachment from whatever may happen and a lot more focus on the present and the current availability of what you can control and what you can do. (1:02:51) Most important next step or next action.(1:02:57) I don't know if you have any comments. (1:02:58) There's one last thing I wanted to talk about. (1:03:00) But do you have any comment on that?

Robert Paylor

(1:03:01) Yeah, really briefly. (1:03:03) I think focusing on what you can control is a real muscle for us to train. (1:03:08) And you can see it just habitually when you ask people, how are you doing today?(1:03:13) I don't know. (1:03:14) I really pay attention to people's answer on that question. (1:03:17) And there's a lot of times I'll hear people say, I've been better.(1:03:23) But you have two legs and you can use them. (1:03:27) But then I also talk to the other people who are like, how are you doing? (1:03:30) I'm doing great.(1:03:31) What's going on? (1:03:31) Oh, nothing. (1:03:32) It's another normal day, living the dream.(1:03:34) I love that perspective. (1:03:36) I think that's great to just appreciate a normal day. (1:03:40) When adversity strikes us, we start to realize just how lucky we were.(1:03:45) And there's this saying that you don't know what you have until you don't have it anymore. (1:03:50) I think that's the worst way that we could possibly live. (1:03:53) Why should we wait to lose something before we start showing appreciation for it?(1:03:59) So I think that muscle of just really focusing on what you can control, what you have, not focusing on what you don't have, what you can't control is something that we really just all got to really practice. (1:04:10) And it does get easier with time.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:04:12) Yeah. (1:04:12) I think there's so much truth to that. (1:04:14) I always hated that comeback of living the dream, living the life.(1:04:19) And there was somebody I know and I asked and I said, are you really living the dream? (1:04:22) What makes you say that? (1:04:24) And he said, if you threw my life into a basket of a thousand other lives, would you be willing to take the chance at living someone else's?(1:04:34) And the answer to that for him was no, because everything I'm enduring is a result of the actions that I chose. (1:04:40) Yeah. (1:04:40) And because of that, what else is this other than the dream I wanted to live?(1:04:47) And that has really changed my perspective on that. (1:04:49) I love that. (1:04:50) I love that.(1:04:51) I want to talk to you briefly about, before we wrap up, forgiveness. (1:04:55) Oh, yeah. (1:04:55) You alluded to the events.(1:04:58) We don't need to belabor it too much, but it's increasingly evident throughout the course of the book and it's come out publicly that there were some massive flaws in how the incident was reviewed by the powers that be, pardon me, but it's U.S. Rugby Association or whatever. (1:05:19) And I know that the game plan, arguably for the other team, may have been questionable. (1:05:23) But as you look through that, one thing you kept focusing on is sort of moving past it, not identifying any specific individual.(1:05:32) How did you come to that? (1:05:36) That seems like a mourning process, a grieving process. (1:05:40) You also mentioned things that are very clear, which is that anger and rage is not serving me in any productive way.(1:05:46) Yeah. (1:05:46) And those are all intellectual pursuits. (1:05:49) Those are words that are accurate, but how does that drive behavior?(1:05:54) How have you found the pathway to accepting the responsibility of your life and what's transpired since the event?

Robert Paylor

(1:06:06) It was such a journey. (1:06:07) Forgiveness was really one of the more difficult mental journeys that I had to go through, because what happened to me was entirely illegal. (1:06:16) You cannot wrench someone to the ground by their neck and especially render them a quadriplegic.(1:06:22) And when I saw those pictures and videos of what had happened to me, I was filled with a rage that I can't even describe. (1:06:29) I'm thinking, here I am laying in a hospital bed. (1:06:32) I can't eat.(1:06:33) I can't breathe. (1:06:35) I can't go to the bathroom by myself. (1:06:37) And I might never be able to ever again, not because I did something stupid, but because someone did this to me and not even because of an accident, you know, just a fluke where you just think like, ah, you know, it just happened.(1:06:52) No, like someone did this to me.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:06:54) Yeah.

Robert Paylor

(1:06:55) And gosh, I was filled with a rage that I can't even describe. (1:06:59) And, you know, as I've, as I've explained, my faith's very important to me. (1:07:02) And it felt like a test in that moment.(1:07:06) I had been taught to forgive others, regardless of their wrongdoing and regardless of how difficult it was for me. (1:07:13) And I felt like this is one of those situations. (1:07:17) It was like a what would Jesus do type moment.(1:07:19) And I was like, I'd say he forgives them. (1:07:22) And as much as I didn't want to, I just decided I'm going to say that I forgive him, regardless of how I feel. (1:07:30) So people would ask me, Robert, what do you think about this guy?(1:07:32) What's your take? (1:07:34) And I would say, I forgive him and I wish him well. (1:07:36) But deep within me, there was still a lot of hatred.(1:07:38) That's not an anger I could release by just saying a few words. (1:07:42) But as time went on, I stayed on that path, very much linked to that control your mindset, focus on the controllables type mindset. (1:07:52) I stayed on that.(1:07:53) And if I got off of it, I would just try to get right back on and say, I forgive him and I wish him well. (1:07:58) And as I did that, I realized I was, I was letting time run its course where those negative attachments could slowly dwindle themselves out. (1:08:08) And when I think about it or explain it, I think of it as like a fire analogy where you're sitting around this burn pile.(1:08:14) Someone comes over, they light this fire, it's roaring, it's blazing, and then they get the heck out of there and you got to tend to this fire. (1:08:20) And the more that you just give hatred to them, the more that you talk about all the bad things that they did to you, the more you're just putting fuel on this fire. (1:08:29) It's going to keep burning and you yourself will get torched.(1:08:32) But if we decide to just kind of let it be there and let it slowly burn itself out, it will get to that point where it's just ashes, which is where I am now. (1:08:41) I mean, I've completely just moved on from that situation. (1:08:44) I truly do wish him well.(1:08:46) And even though he's never reached out and he's never said he's sorry, I really do forgive him whether he's sorry or not. (1:08:54) And I think when I talk to people now, I just try to say like forgiveness is not about removing guilt from the person who did wrong. (1:09:02) It's about removing those negative attachments from the person who was wronged.(1:09:06) Forgiveness is so much about ourselves and our healing. (1:09:09) It's just always the right answer. (1:09:11) I can't think of a situation where harboring that hatred is really the right thing to do.(1:09:16) I think in every case, forgiveness is the right thing to do.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:09:20) That's great feedback and advice. (1:09:23) There's an allegory in a book, a children's book that I've been reading in my son. (1:09:27) And in this allegory is these two monks, one older, one younger, walking down the street in a woman who was being carried on a carriage over some water crossing the street.(1:09:39) The men that were carrying her were carrying the luggage. (1:09:43) And so she couldn't be transported over the water. (1:09:46) So the older monk put him on his back, carried her across the water, put her down, and she pushed him aside and then just continued to go off.(1:09:56) And the young monk and the older monk continue to walk for like an hour. (1:09:59) And after about an hour, the young monk says, I don't understand how you're not upset about that. (1:10:04) The older monk looks at him and says, I put her down over an hour ago, and yet you're still carrying her.(1:10:09) Why? (1:10:10) And that to me sort of illuminates an idea that the pain that you inflict on yourself, which is not evident when I'm consumed with my own negative thoughts. (1:10:22) So this is speaking to me.(1:10:24) Your story is phenomenal, Robert. (1:10:27) It's unbelievable in so many different ways. (1:10:30) You're incredibly inspiring.(1:10:32) I really appreciate you being not just vulnerable on this, but also elsewhere in the work you're doing. (1:10:39) I'm wondering if you have any closing thoughts or things you think I might have missed.

Robert Paylor

(1:10:45) Yeah, one closing thought. (1:10:47) You know, here we are on the Scales of Success podcast. (1:10:49) And I've thought of success a lot throughout this journey.(1:10:53) And it's the last chapter of my book, True Success. (1:10:58) And it's tough. (1:11:00) It's something that was really, I think, like the final realization I've come to throughout all this.(1:11:04) Like, what does success really mean? (1:11:06) Because in a lot of ways, I haven't achieved my goals. (1:11:11) My goal on day one was to be wheelchair independent, to be in a walker, crutches, nothing at all.(1:11:17) I don't care what it is. (1:11:18) I just want to stand up from this wheelchair one day and never sit back down. (1:11:21) I haven't achieved that.(1:11:23) And statistics say that I will never achieve that. (1:11:27) Now, do I believe that I will? (1:11:29) Heck yeah.(1:11:29) I work at it every single day. (1:11:31) But the odds are not in my favor. (1:11:34) And I got to think, like, does that mean that I failed?(1:11:37) Does that mean that I'm not successful? (1:11:41) And I think that the answer is absolutely not. (1:11:45) Because I think true success through this journey, through every journey, is being able to take what life presents to us and live with gratitude, purpose, and joy.(1:11:56) I think if you have those three things throughout any journey, you have achieved success. (1:12:03) And I think if you don't have those things throughout any journey, that you're still on that path to achieving that success, that peace that we all need in our lives. (1:12:13) So I think success in a lot of ways is what you make of it.(1:12:16) But I think like in any endeavor we're focusing on, we really need to always maintain those three things like gratitude, purpose, joy. (1:12:25) And that's something that I'm really proud that I have in my life. (1:12:28) So even more than these physical accomplishments, it's really more just that meaning and that gratitude that I have for my life throughout all these difficulties, where I just think like this injury never beat me.(1:12:39) And it never will because I have those values, those feelings in my life.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:12:44) That may be the best closing thoughts I've had or definition of success I've come across.

Robert Paylor

(1:12:49) Thank you.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:12:50) And that's something I will definitely continue to think about.

Robert Paylor

(1:12:52) Yeah.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:12:53) Robert, thank you so much for being on. (1:12:55) This has been phenomenal and a true pleasure.

Robert Paylor

(1:12:58) Oh my gosh, what a joy, Marcus. (1:12:59) Thank you so much.

Marcus Arredondo

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