#53 - The Science of You: Rewriting the Rules of Longevity with Richard Sprague

Where data meets destiny. In today’s mind-bending episode, host Marcus Arredondo is joined by Richard Sprague to reveal how personal data, AI, and curiosity are rewriting the rules of longevity. From microbiome tracking to AI eye scans, Richard proves that the future of science isn’t in labs, it’s in your hands. If you’re tired of guessing what works for your body and want to see real proof, this episode will flip the way you think about health forever.

Richard Sprague is a technologist, entrepreneur, and “personal scientist” who turns data into self-discovery. A former Apple and Microsoft exec, he now runs OptiCare AI and writes the Personal Science Substack, helping people use data, AI, and curiosity to live longer and think sharper.

Connect with Richard Sprague:
Substack: https://www.personalscience.com/
X: https://x.com/sprague
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sprague/

Episode highlights:
(4:41) How accidents lead to discoveries
(10:18) Lessons from living in Japan and China
(17:46) Handling conflicting information
(27:10) The Kefir experiment that changed everything
(39:16) Can your microbiome predict dementia?
(41:40) Continuous glucose monitoring insights
(44:04) How Vagus nerve stimulation may calm the brain
(46:39) EMF testing and the migraine mystery
(51:34) Eye-based AI health scans with OptiCare
(59:47) How AI is reshaping personal health tracking
(1:12:45) Outro

Connect with Marcus

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcus-arredondo/
• X (Twitter): https://x.com/cus

Scales of Success

• Website: scalesofsuccesspodcast.com
• X (Twitter): https://x.com/scalesofsuccess
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scalesofsuccesspod/
• Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@scalesofsuccess
  
  

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Chapters

• 4:41 How accidents lead to discoveries
• 10:18 Lessons from living in Japan and China
• 17:46 Handling conflicting information
• 27:10 The Kefir experiment that changed everything
• 39:16 Can your microbiome predict dementia?
• 41:40 Continuous glucose monitoring insights
• 44:04 How Vagus nerve stimulation may calm the brain
• 46:39 EMF testing and the migraine mystery
• 51:34 Eye-based AI health scans with OptiCare
• 59:47 How AI is reshaping personal health tracking
• 1:12:45 Outro

Transcript

Note: The transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors.

Richard Sprague

(0:00) Often, it turns out to be the case that things that work, work. (0:04) Things that don't work require a lot of analysis to be able to show that it kind of sort of worked. (0:11) So, if you take the sleep, you know, supplement and you're kind of like, well, I think I slept better.(0:18) I don't know. (0:18) And you take the next day and you're like, oh, maybe today that maybe the reason I didn't sleep well is because of such and such. (0:23) Then guess what?(0:24) It probably doesn't work that well. (0:26) Like if it works, it works.

Marcus Arredondo

(0:28) Today's guest is Richard Sprague, a technologist and self-described personal scientist who's run more than 600 experiments on himself to understand how the body really works. (0:36) What stood out to me was his curiosity, not to prove he's right, but to find out what's true. (0:41) I respect how he blends skepticism with open mindedness from testing Kefir's effect on gut health to adding fat to oatmeal and using AI as a health co-pilot.(0:49) Richard shows how discovery starts with humility and persistence. (0:52) We also talk about how curiosity helped him solve his daughter's migraines and why no one cares more about your health than you do. (0:58) This story is about curiosity and taking ownership of your well-being in a world overflowing with information.(1:03) Let's start the show. (1:05) Richard, welcome. (1:06) Thank you for coming on.(1:08) Thank you. (1:08) It's a pleasure. (1:09) I'm really excited.(1:10) I have, um, I'm going to lay a little bit of the, set the table here for the audience and for you because I, there's a lot of, uh, content that you have and what drew me to you, your personal science sub stack. (1:21) I've seen some of your longevity presentations, uh, but for background, in addition to what is presented in the intro, your background is, uh, in engineering you've had, uh, but it's, it's the convergence of engineering consumer products. (1:36) So you use the analogy that so long as you can explain it to your mom, that's sort of your barometer of success, which I find really applicable because the personal science sub stack, uh, which we're going to get into, because that's really the basis of the investigation process.(1:52) Uh, the thoroughness, the openness and the skepticism, which I think is really critical. (1:57) We're also at a juncture in life in our own world where I think we're accessing, uh, I know you're a Huberman fan, a Tim Ferriss follower as well, which I am too. (2:09) And you put those people in the categories of, you know, Jeremy London, Gabrielle Lyon, Peter Atiyah.(2:15) There's a number of other people that are helping to piecemeal a lot of this information out. (2:20) And I think it's making it more digestible to a larger swath of the audience. (2:25) And I don't think it's quite open sourcing some of this, but it is allowing for some greater autonomy and independence as it relates to controlling our, our own future.(2:34) And I'm not going to continue talking like I am right now, but I do want to set the stage (2:37) a little bit because you've spent a time in China, in Japan, which I'd like to explore, (2:42) uh, sight unseen, not knowing the language, uh, sort of balls to the wall, which I really, (2:48) really respect, but in the personal experimentation, which I want to, there are some specific questions (2:54) I want to talk about, including microbiome, uh, the work that you're doing, uh, relative (2:59) to retinal scans, but your most recent sub stack that came out, which I think is the (3:04) great springboard for us. (3:05) And I'll start with, uh, the phrase that's funny, um, because this post is about accidents and the accidental discoveries really by virtue of the revelation that comes from the investigation and the willing to take the chance of pushing that envelope. (3:23) And you do highlight the benefits of personal science relative to, um, investigations in labs where there's grants in institutions behind you, where there's pressure to put publications out there, but you make this list of accidental discoveries.(3:37) And I, just for the benefit of the audience, when I saw this, I knew about them individually, but when you see them together, it does stand out. (3:43) So penicillin, the microwave oven, vulcanized rubber, x-rays, stainless steel, post-it notes, uh, mauve dye, which I'm not familiar with, but Teflon safety glass and saccharin are all accidental identifications. (3:57) And on the heel of Jane Goodall having just died, who was not by training, a scientist was effectively an assistant and she sort of became a vocal point for certainly the study in apes, but you know, our, our relationship to animals in general.(4:15) So I guess where I'm starting out is where have accidents played in your life and how do you apply the engineering mind towards solving problems? (4:25) And I want, I, that's a broad question, but I want to get your take generally speaking on what your attributes within how you view the world apply to solving these issues as it relates now to longevity and biohacking.

Richard Sprague

(4:41) Um, well, that's a broad question. (4:43) Um, let's, uh, let's start, I guess, um, I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin, a farming town. (4:50) My parents were both farmers.(4:52) Um, and when you're on the farm, if something breaks, if something happens, you don't just like, you know, call up somebody and have them come and fix it. (5:01) You got to fix it yourself. (5:02) And if, uh, the corn's got to get harvested today and something breaks on the harvester, it's you and you got to fix it.(5:12) And that's just the way it is. (5:12) And that's the way that all farmers think. (5:14) And that's the way that people in rural America think.(5:16) And, you know, I, I've never forgotten that sort of attitude about things. (5:20) And, um, the term personal science for me, uh, comes from, this is, uh, back in the late seventies. (5:28) Um, I was in, in, um, um, in elementary and middle school.(5:34) And, uh, I remember the first time hearing about this thing called a microcomputer. (5:39) Now today we call them personal computers, but originally they were called microcomputers to distinguish them from, um, they were, there were a mainframes and there were many computers. (5:51) And, um, it's kind of almost as a joke, people started calling them microcomputers, but the essential ethos was like that farming kind of attitude where, um, why do I have to rely on some big guy somewhere else to go and solve all my problems?(6:05) Why can't I do it myself? (6:08) And it was not possible originally with computing because, uh, it was just too expensive. (6:14) Nobody, normal people who just couldn't go and afford the room size, full of vacuum tubes and everything else to do a computer.(6:19) But when the microprocessor first came along and then the early like Apple computers and there was TRS-80 and there was, um, and of course the IBM PC, when those things first came along, it first became possible for normal people to have access to a computer. (6:33) And that was kind of my first inspiration is, um, you can do just about anything because back in the days of the first PCs, um, there were no rules, you know, you would just get this box that had, um, you might've had a programming language on it, but if you wanted to do something, you had to do it completely 100% yourself. (6:53) And that was how I got started is, uh, learning that, you know what I can, I don't need to go take a class someplace.(7:00) I don't need to, uh, you know, uh, attend school or get a credential before I can do this. (7:04) I can do whatever I want. (7:06) And it's that concept of personal computing that I think I've tried to extend into everything related to personal health and wellness and fitness and, um, all the things that we care about.(7:17) Cause you want to be able to take the techniques of science, which traditionally have been available to people with PhDs and like you say, lab grants and, uh, you know, and access to like a big university or something like that. (7:31) You want to take those techniques and make it available to everybody. (7:35) Now where does accident comes in and come in?(7:37) Well, when a credential scientist is in his lab working on something, um, they generally have, uh, like they've got a deadline to meet. (7:48) They've got a paper to write. (7:49) They've got, um, you know, in university, they've got students, they've got to teach, they've got a lot of things that are going on and they can kind of only have one shot at what they're trying to work on.(7:58) So if you're trying to cure cancer, you've got to write up a big detailed grant of what your plan is for curing cancer and how long it's going to take and how much money it's going to take and everything. (8:07) And, and then a lot of times you go into that lab and you're working on some, you know, some chemical or something and it's going to take a long time before you get the answer. (8:13) So you really don't have a lot of room for, uh, experimentation and, and accidents.(8:20) Whereas me as an individual, you know, every single day, everything I do is going to be, uh, you can think of it as an experiment. (8:28) And some of those experiments are going to work out, some of them are not, but it's the ones that, um, often happen by accident that are the most interesting ones. (8:36) And you know, that's the, the, you know, the famous, uh, saying that, um, Isaac Asimov used to say is like the most important words in science are not Eureka.(8:43) It's that's funny because you're just looking at something and you think, you know what, this is not what I expected to happen. (8:50) And it's that general attitude that I think of as being like a, uh, like an attitude and a disposition that we can all inculcate in ourselves. (8:58) And that's kind of what my goal of, you know, the personal science stubsack and in general is like, I want to be able to promote more people to have that sense of autonomy and, um, you know, ability to be able to do things themselves, just like we did back on the farm.

Marcus Arredondo

(9:11) Yeah. (9:12) Well, I appreciate the agency that's entailed in that. (9:14) And I use sort of a, there's a, there's a writer, uh, in social media.(9:18) His name's George Mack that I've, I've followed quite a bit that, uh, he talks about agency as defined by who's the first person you'd call if you had no money and were trapped in a third world prison to help get you out. (9:31) And, uh, that to me sort of exemplifies the internal capacity to assess, adapt, and pull upon internal resources. (9:40) And so, um, I don't want to, I don't want to, uh, spend too much time on this particular subject because I want to get to some of the nitty gritty stuff that I have very specific questions on, but how has that applied to you going, for example, to China and Japan?(9:56) Because I have questions about what your experience there and how it relates to the approach in Western medicine. (10:02) Cause I have to think that that has to have influenced to some degree, a greater level of skepticism related to how, uh, we in the West view our health.

Richard Sprague

(10:14) So let's start with, with you going to China and Japan. (10:17) You know, um, so people always say that travel, um, you know, broadens the mind and it's true. (10:22) Like when you go some someplace different, even in the United States or even for that matter, you know, leaving a rural area, going to a city or vice versa, you see that a lot of the things that you took for granted as being the way things must be done, you know, people do it differently and they seem to be getting along just fine.(10:39) And I think that's a big part of the training that you get when you, when you travel. (10:43) Now, for me particular with, um, with Japan, you know, this was me back in the, um, you know, the late seventies, early eighties, when there was a lot of talk about how the U S uh, manufacturing, you know, uh, system was falling apart and how the, the Asian tigers were starting to beat us and all this stuff. (11:03) And I was a, you know, I was a boy and I was thinking like, what can I do to make America, you know, um, great.(11:11) And, uh, and so I thought, well, you know what the, the, maybe what I should do is learn, you know, um, since Japan is going to become number one, maybe I should, um, get on the Japan train before, you know, before it really happens. (11:23) And again, it's that autonomous, um, spirit of like, I can do it myself. (11:28) Um, I just said, you know what, uh, I'm going to go to Japan.(11:32) And I asked a lot of people, I, you know, did a lot of reading, looked around and everything. (11:38) And as, uh, as it turned out, there was a, a, a guy that I knew in college who'd had a father who had worked as a, like a consultant for a couple of years for a Japanese company. (11:47) And one thing led to another, and I had myself a job in Japan.(11:51) And so I, uh, you know, I'd never been there before, but I hopped on the plane one way ticket. (11:57) And when I got off, I had to figure out what I was going to do. (12:01) And this was a, you know, Wisconsin farm boy who didn't know a whole lot about a lot of things, but I, um, you know, but, you know, if you have that sense of, uh, personal responsibility and autonomy, it's surprising how many things you can make happen, especially when you're young and stupid and don't know anybody.(12:19) Now, would I do that again? (12:20) That's another question, but I have nothing but respect for the kid that I was that was able to pull that off.

Marcus Arredondo

(12:26) Yeah. (12:26) To listen to that. (12:27) I mean, to listen to that compass inside to tell you where to go, that I think comes back later about following your nose.(12:34) Like where, where's the answer for my own quest reside? (12:38) Where, where does that have to be just out of curiosity? (12:40) I mean, because ultimately, cause you, you do speak Mandarin and you speak Japanese as well.

Richard Sprague

(12:44) Yeah, I speak Japanese pretty well. (12:47) You're reading and writing, but, um, I wish my Mandarin was that good, but it's just not despite like lots of that ability to pick up a language.

Marcus Arredondo

(12:55) Um, you know, one thing I haven't studied non romance languages, but even in studying Italian, French and Spanish, and those are woefully under a proficient, but in investigating those, I actually learned that, uh, I could actually speak English better. (13:12) I understood how that's true better.

Richard Sprague

(13:14) That's true.

Marcus Arredondo

(13:14) Yeah. (13:15) It makes you more self-aware. (13:16) It changed my ways of thinking, right?(13:17) It sort of, it informed the way, uh, languages structures structured actually integrates into the viewpoint of that culture. (13:25) Um, and by virtue of understanding the language, you actually understand the culture in a much different way than you would without it. (13:32) And I'm curious, um, how that integrates into, cause you've got, you are a polyglot.(13:37) You are a polymath. (13:39) You also understand coding to at least some degree, if not a large degree. (13:44) Cause you are not without your own pedigree, despite the fact that you sort of dismissed it.(13:47) You are, uh, a Wharton grad and a Stanford grad, which I love that you shrugged that off, but that only is an indication of the qualifications in the caliber of, uh, pursuit that you have internally. (13:59) So I guess where I'm going with that is like, how does that apply to, as you started to investigate the biohacking world and longevity, how are you applying? (14:09) Um, because you're not a scientist by trade, but the analytical mind is not entirely dissimilar from how, uh, science approaches problem solving.(14:18) And so when you first went down this journey, you've got a long, you've got an illustrious (14:23) career as an entrepreneur and continue to be in an entrepreneurial, uh, endeavors, but (14:28) how does this transition to, uh, you know what I'm going to, I'm going to spend more (14:32) time prioritizing the, uh, I don't even know how you describe it, but I, I am (14:39) categorizing it as the Venn diagram overlap between biohacking and, and longevity. (14:43) Is that a false, uh, uh, description?

Richard Sprague

(14:46) Uh, yeah, these are all terms that, you know, I guess I've seen kind of come up like, you know, longevity, that term now means something that, you know, nobody was using that term, you know, 20, 50 or 20, 30 years ago. (14:58) And, uh, same thing with biohacking is a new thing. (15:00) Um, I've been interested in, uh, you know, it is as long as I can remember, I can, I can remember thinking to myself that the most important, um, disease that we all face is aging.(15:13) Right. (15:14) Um, and, uh, you know, that's something that's been interesting to me, you know, forever. (15:19) Uh, you know, somebody at some point put the label, let's call it longevity, but, uh, that general mindset of trying to be the best you can and trying to figure out, um, what are some of the, the best ways that I can approach that again, with the sense that I'm responsible for myself.(15:36) I have my own sense of autonomy. (15:38) I can do this myself. (15:40) I think that's just a general mindset.(15:41) That's helpful. (15:43) And, um, now how does it kind of tie together? (15:47) I guess, like, I'm just interested in all of these sorts of things that empower normal people to do that, do it themselves.(15:54) I've never been a big fan of taking somebody at their word just because they're an expert or just because somebody's got a credential. (16:02) You know, you mentioned my degrees. (16:04) Well, in order to get those degrees, I had to hang out with other people who have those degrees and guess what?(16:10) Like they're not any smarter than anybody else. (16:13) Yeah. (16:13) And, um, and I also recognize that, uh, a lot of those programs that people get into or even, you know, jobs that you get or promotions, there's a big element of luck in there.(16:23) And I think one of the things that separates the winners and losers in this world is people who respect the fact that a lot of what they got was luck and people who don't. (16:32) There are a lot of people who think that they're, you know, that they were successful because of, you know, how great they are and how, you know, and, you know, one thing or another, but unless you acknowledge that there's a big element of luck, um, you're going to run into problems later on.

Marcus Arredondo

(16:45) Yeah. (16:46) Well, I appreciate that about your writing because there's a tremendous sense of humility in how you present things. (16:50) It is not didactic.(16:51) It is exploratory. (16:53) You do provide a number of, uh, sources on, on sort of where you're identifying your information, you experiment yourself. (17:01) And I want to go into a few of these experiments as well, but I think that's really, um, it makes your, uh, what you present a far more approachable.(17:08) And from my perspective, gives it a lot more credibility as it relates to understanding how you're approaching it. (17:14) And, you know, there have been times where I've read, where I found myself saying like, I don't know if I agree with that, but I'm not sure if I have the data to suggest why I would disagree with it. (17:22) And that's really the point I think of a lot of what you share, which is, well, then go find what is, I mean, you even harken to the placebo effect in many ways.(17:32) Like, yeah, if you're taking, uh, supplements and it's a placebo yet you find differences in your bio, uh, markers, then it's obviously having an impact. (17:41) So go down that path, which I, I applaud that you still respect that.

Richard Sprague

(17:46) And you have just as much ability to be able to figure that out as any, you know, quote unquote expert does. (17:51) Nobody cares more about you and your health than you and your loved ones. (17:56) You know, so, um, so, you know, that doctor or that famous guy that's got a zillion followers on YouTube, you know, he may have some really good ideas and so you should listen to them.(18:05) But at the end of the day, it's you that's got to figure it out. (18:09) And it doesn't do you any good to just say, well, I'm going to go rely on an expert for this. (18:13) A lot of times we have no choice because, you know, we don't have the time.(18:16) We don't have the, you know, the understanding of things that we can rely on. (18:19) But even that doesn't get you off the hook because then you got to decide which expert and what are you going to do when there are, you know, there are five doctors telling you six different things. (18:27) What are you going to do?(18:28) And that's why, like, you really have to develop these, these, uh, personality traits and these techniques to be able to solve problems of yourself.

Marcus Arredondo

(18:35) Okay. (18:36) So I want to start there and I appreciate you sharing that because you even have a post about spinach falsely being claimed as a major source of iron.

Richard Sprague

(18:43) Yeah.

Marcus Arredondo

(18:43) And that's perpetuated the myth of Popeye. (18:46) And it's, and I, and this is unrelated, but I remember finding, I don't know if you've ever heard this stat, but, um, how there's close to 6,000 calories burned by grand chess masters during their, uh, which is false. (19:00) It was taken out of context, much like some of these other data's where you say like, look, if it's cited by innumerable sources, the greater your skepticism should likely be because the outliers, which have significant contribution to your understanding are seldom referenced and are seldom accounted for.(19:19) One thing you highlight is, you know, these statistics and what gets sent, uh, put out there are being geared toward the average person, but you're not the average person. (19:28) You are you. (19:29) And so let's just start with like, how do you determine truth value?(19:32) What's your process that you might share with somebody? (19:35) I've had multiple friends and family members who've said, especially in today's political climate, which is something slightly different, but I would suggest the skill sets we're using should apply in equal measure to both your own, uh, well-being autonomy and your agency in protecting that as well as how you think and what you think about in response to some of these political issues. (19:59) How do you assess truth value?(20:01) How do you determine, you know, who to listen to? (20:04) What parts of who you're listening to, to actually agree with and not agree with?

Richard Sprague

(20:09) Is there any guidance you would give to somebody that, you know, I do, I have kids, but I'll tell you, like, um, you know, I, I mean, I don't want to present myself as some expert on this because I really don't know. (20:22) Part of the reason that, you know, if, if I come across as humble, that's kind of by accident because the fact is I really don't know half the time. (20:29) And, um, and it's surprising how often you take something for granted, like the spinach thing or the, um, you know, that another one is, um, like, what is it?(20:38) 10,000 hours to become an expert. (20:39) I mean, there's a lot of these, like these quotes that everybody likes to quote. (20:42) And, and I've done that myself.(20:44) Like, you know, there've been times in my life when I said spinach, it's because, you know, it's, it's high in iron. (20:49) And don't you know that? (20:50) And then it's like, what do I do when I find conflicting information?(20:53) I dig into it and I find out, oh my goodness, like I was wrong. (20:56) And I was, I was quoting these things wrong. (20:57) So just over time, I've developed a real sense of, um, humility of unders, of like how little maybe I know, but at the same time, um, that's why I say there's the personal techniques are two things.(21:11) There's one is being skeptical, which is very easy to do. (21:14) And there are a lot of people that that's where they end. (21:16) But the other part is being open-minded.(21:18) So just because somebody says, um, uh, you know, I, you know, they, just because they say something, um, doesn't mean it's true, but it doesn't mean it's not true either. (21:28) You know, so, um, you know, people like to use the example of, uh, like the earth is flat. (21:33) Okay.(21:33) Flat earthers. (21:34) Let's take that one. (21:35) Like, come on, you don't believe that do you?(21:37) Well, let's think that through a little bit. (21:39) You know, that's an example of something where, when I try to think like all the things that you would have to show me in order for me to be convinced that it's true, um, I'll listen to your arguments, but I don't know. (21:50) I think this is probably going to be a waste of time.(21:52) And, you know, so there's little like degrees of skepticism on other things though. (21:57) Um, you know, and, and the, the COVID pandemic was, you know, was ground zero for half of these things. (22:02) People would come up to you and they would tell you like, oh my goodness, this is the answer.(22:06) This is the cure. (22:07) Or, um, this is not the cure. (22:08) This is the problem.(22:09) And, you know, we all know how often the quote unquote experts changed their mind during the pandemic, especially those first few months. (22:18) And, you know, if you had spent your, um, brain capital, like really digging into it and understanding kind of what these people are saying, you would have very quickly come to the same conclusion I do, which is that I don't think anybody knows what they're talking about. (22:31) And your guess is as good as mine.(22:33) So therefore let's start thinking this thing through first principles about like, what is it that I do know? (22:38) What are the things that I'm as certain about as I am that the, you know, the earth is round and let's just go from there. (22:44) And I think those, that's the set of techniques that I think that, you know, that I want to see more people adopt.(22:48) Um, you know, like, like, like to be more, more specific examples. (22:53) I am always surprised at people who will go to a, like a biohacking trade show. (22:59) And I go to a lot of these and they'll come up to somebody's booth and there's a pile of some kind of new supplement.(23:05) And, um, you know, there'll be some new, something new, like, you know, something new, I guess now it's peptide. (23:12) Everybody's got some kind of peptide. (23:13) And so like, um, people will come up to that booth and listen and maybe look at a free sample or something like that.(23:19) And, uh, and the guy who's selling it, we'll tell them a whole story about how there are these studies that show this, and there's like such and such mechanism. (23:27) And, you know, often like there'll be a whole bunch of, you know, really complicated sounding scientific sounding technical language that's associated. (23:34) And you're like, well, you know, he's probably right.(23:37) Cause he's, he sounds like he's thought about this a lot now with something like that, I'll take it seriously. (23:43) Like there's very few things that I'll dismiss out of hand, but I really want to understand a little bit more about how that's going to directly affect me. (23:51) So if you give me a new pill or a new peptide, I'm not going to just take your word for it that it helps my sleep.(23:58) I'm going to track my sleep for a while and see what happens. (24:01) And I track myself pretty regularly already. (24:04) So for you to show me something that supposedly helps my sleep, um, don't just assume that (24:10) the placebo effect is going to work that well on me, because I'm going to be able to (24:13) tell you with data, um, like how this changed my actual sleep and, you know, and other things (24:19) that we, we all want to get to that point where, or I believe that the personal science (24:22) attitude is to get to that point where you're not relying on somebody's word for it or on (24:28) somebody's ability to build their powers of persuasion, but you're able to rely on like (24:33) actual data, actual something that you can do a, an experiment for to prove whether it (24:38) works or not. (24:38) And I think that's not always possible. (24:40) And there are all kinds of reasons why that's complicated, um, which is, you know, part of the reason why we should all be a little bit humble.(24:47) But I think that's the general direction that I want to see, you know, myself certainly go in. (24:51) And it's something that I think is helpful for everyone.

Marcus Arredondo

(24:54) Well, I, I want to, um, you, you mentioned a couple of things here, so let's use that as sort of the on-ramp to some of your experimentation, because I think with the humility comes the openness to experiment and to absorb data, which is, uh, contrary to your expectation and to be able to sort of adapt and navigate that. (25:11) And so I want to talk a little bit about what you've experimented with. (25:16) I also want to make sure I, I address OptiCare AI, um, so, so we can sort of get a sense of that because I think that's even related to some degree in the democratization of some of these monitors, whether it's sleep monitors, like, you know, whether it's the Apple watch, the Oura ring, I know you've got, uh, a Vegas product, uh, which I want to explore as well.(25:36) And, um, in using all of these products, we're to your point about data. (25:40) I mean, I think about, uh, somebody like Brian Johnson, who's sort of taken it to a whole different level, um, that most people are not, uh, don't have the resources to do or the discipline or the wherewithal, the desire. (25:51) But I think he's unearthing some really interesting anecdotal pieces of information that may or may not be applicable to you, but it's still, you know, there, there is no question.(26:00) He looks very different than he did 15 years ago. (26:03) Um, and whatever that cause may be, there's something going on there, but I also want to use a fraction of the time to talk about what you're investigating with AI and how some of the data that we're being able to pull, you know, digital attributes that we can, uh, assess and sort of use that information. (26:22) So I'm happy to go in a number of different directions, however you want to talk about, a few things that stood out.(26:28) One was your microbiome testing. (26:30) The second was your electromagnetic testing. (26:34) Um, and a little bit about, uh, one specific example was, I always called it, uh, Kefir, but you're, I think you, you refer to as Kefir.(26:46) So those are three that sort of stand out to me. (26:49) I'm happy to go in other directions, but the microbiome, as it relates to dementia.

Richard Sprague

(26:54) Yeah, and that's kind of my, um, that's my, I guess my claim to fame. (26:58) So why don't we talk about that? (26:59) Maybe it's helpful if at this point I pull up a couple of slides.(27:02) Is that okay? (27:02) Let me, um, let me see if we can get this working here.

Marcus Arredondo

(27:04) Let's just do our best to, uh, articulate a little bit of what's on the screen for the benefit of those who may be listening.

Richard Sprague

(27:10) All right. (27:10) Yeah. (27:11) Um, so I'm just going to show, um, let's see here.(27:15) Can you see my screen now? (27:16) Yeah. (27:17) And I'll talk through this.(27:17) So, um, and I'm not going to go into a lot of detail. (27:19) If people want to have more detail, you know how to get ahold of it. (27:22) But, um, so, uh, the, the key thing here is that for, um, I became very interested in the microbiome with, you know, several years ago when it was first, um, becoming popular.(27:33) And I discovered that you can with at consumer prices, anybody can go and test their own microbiome. (27:37) So I think you can see these slides, right?

Marcus Arredondo

(27:39) I can.

Richard Sprague

(27:39) Yes. (27:40) Um, I'm not going to bother putting into slide mode. (27:43) I'm just going to show just very briefly, but essentially what I did was that I, um, uh, I used these off the shelf consumer, um, microbiome testing and I found a way to like sweet talk the people at the lab so that they let me try it out a lot.(27:57) And I did it more than 600 times. (27:59) So usually normal people, I guess, will, um, get one of these microbiome tests and, um, you try it away, you try it out, you send back the sample and a couple of weeks later, you get back your results and it tells you you've got this diversity or that diversity. (28:13) You've got, you know, this problem, that problem or whatever.(28:16) And is it the swab of your mouth? (28:18) Uh, well, there are lots of different ways to do it. (28:20) Um, you swab your mouth, um, nose, uh, I do them all.(28:24) So skin. (28:25) And then of course there's your poop. (28:27) So, um, there's lots of different ways to do this.(28:29) And I did them all and I did it all for, um, more than a year. (28:34) And, uh, I test it. (28:35) And so that every single day I would write it down and I did the calculation.(28:38) So for example, this is gut diversity, which is something that a lot of people think is important. (28:43) And, um, again, not, I didn't want to just take somebody's word for it. (28:46) That gut diversity is important.(28:47) I want to see what is my own diversity. (28:49) And, and one of the things that I discovered is that, uh, the, um, diversity on Monday is very different than the diversity on Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday. (29:00) So if you are one of those people who, um, paid your 99 bucks, you sent it in and you got the results back and it said, you've got high diversity and you want to have, or you've got, it says you've got low diversity and you want to have higher diversity.(29:11) My advice is send it in on Tuesday instead, because there's, these things are just all over the map. (29:17) The thing I, the, you know, the big thing I discovered is just diversity changes a lot day to day. (29:23) Now you still see patterns and you can see like, um, here, this is a plot just showing, um, how my diversity, although it changes, um, pretty substantially day to day.(29:33) Um, there's kind of like a long-term trend that you can say, like in this case, during the winter, for whatever reason, it looks like my diversity maybe kind of goes up a little bit relative to the summer. (29:42) You know, so, and that, you know, little patterns like that, that you can kind of tell. (29:45) Let's see here.

Marcus Arredondo

(29:46) But the other one, um, on this, are you doing anything different in terms of your diet or nutrition?

Richard Sprague

(29:53) I'm doing a lot of things. (29:54) So, um, that's another thing to just keep in mind. (29:56) So I, I run experiments all the time on myself.(29:59) Um, so, uh, um, this is not, this is just looking at diversity overall. (30:04) Of course there are different places in there where, you know, where I was doing some kind of experiment and I'll talk about them and I'll give you a couple of examples in just a second. (30:11) But generally speaking, my conclusion on this is that, uh, something like the diversity metric is not really all that interesting because it changes so much.(30:20) And that was, you know, one of my first, you know, discoveries is that don't trust a test just because you did it one day. (30:29) You're going to have to test yourself multiple days under multiple conditions because many of these cutting edge tests, cutting edge tests just are not that, um, like we haven't figured out what they mean enough yet to be able to say that they're that, uh, um, repeatable. (30:46) Um, so let me show you, here's another chart that I did.(30:48) So this is one of the experiments that I did where I decided to drink, um, uh, like several bottles of kombucha every day and measure my gut diversity during that period. (31:00) And you can see on this chart that, uh, it looks like maybe kind of my diversity went up when I was drinking the kombucha. (31:10) Um, but then it went up even more after I stopped and then it went down again.(31:15) And like, in other words, what you'll see when you look at this chart is that there's probably a way for me to spin this and make it sound like it had an effect, but you know what? (31:24) I don't think it had an effect. (31:26) Um, another part of this is that I look specifically at the particular microbe that's in this drink.(31:32) I'm using GT's kombucha, which is at every store. (31:34) And everybody's heard about this and you've probably had this already. (31:38) Um, they have in their listing, the specific microbe that they put in the kombucha.(31:43) I tested for that particular microbe and, and what I found was that sure enough, um, the levels of that microbe did increase in my, my gut, but they disappeared again very soon after I stopped drinking it. (31:54) So that was kind of an interesting, interesting discovery. (31:57) Uh, I did the same thing with taking a probiotic pill.(32:00) Like, you know, those, you know, you can buy cheap ones, expensive ones, but the other people who take these probiotic pills and I discovered basically that it had almost like no detectable effect. (32:09) There was just like my, my levels of these bacteria would go up some days, down some days and had nothing to do with the pill. (32:16) But the one thing that I found, which was really eyeopening was kefir.(32:21) That did make a difference. (32:22) Um, I actually got the idea because, um, I'd been talking to a guy who'd been suffering from some kind of, um, gut issues for a long time. (32:30) And he went to a naturopath or something who said, yeah, take kefir.(32:33) And so he was, uh, taking it. (32:35) Um, and it kind of helped and, you know, he didn't want to give it up, but, uh, he was paying three bucks a day, you know, for the Trader Joe's kefir bottles. (32:44) And somebody told him, well, you can make it yourself.(32:46) And the day after he took it, he said it was, it was remarkable, the difference, like when he made his own at home. (32:54) And so I listened to that. (32:55) I said, okay, I'll try this.(32:56) And sure enough. (32:57) Yep. (32:57) It really does make a difference.(32:59) There's something about kefir and about a lot of these fermented foods that you make at home in general, where I believe what's happening is that it's almost like there's some kind of an external digestion that's happening or pre-digestion that's happening. (33:11) And it's based on your immediate environment, like the microbes, the air, the toxins, everything that's in your kitchen. (33:18) Now, that stuff gets processed by these microbes in a way that is like fits in with the way that the rest of your digestive system work.(33:27) And it really worked for me. (33:29) So it was very noticeable. (33:31) And that's the one, one take, one of the takeaways that I got from doing all this microbiome testing.

Marcus Arredondo

(33:36) Can we pause there for one second? (33:38) What are you finding are, so you mentioned microbiome diversity being a positive thing, but to me, it would seem more logical is maybe the type of diversity that is required for better results, whatever those results you might be driving toward, rather than just having a general diversity. (33:56) And maybe I'm wrong in reading that, but what's the objective in doing this?(34:00) So like, in this case, you're testing the taxa abundance, but in those events, when the taxa amounts go up, say in April, for example, as this indicates, do you find that you have more energy? (34:14) Do you find that you're sleeping better? (34:15) Are there symptoms from this that you find that are dissimilar to when you're that level, that specific level is down?(34:22) Is taxa something we should be paying more attention to than other microbiome organisms, et cetera?

Richard Sprague

(34:28) Yeah. (34:29) So let me, first of all, you know, let's not misunderstand. (34:33) I actually don't think diversity is a well-defined idea.(34:36) So you'll see a lot of people claim that having more diversity is better. (34:42) I just don't know what it means. (34:43) So like I spent a lot of time trying to understand what people mean by diversity.(34:46) And, you know, I don't know, like, you know, diversity is good if it's the kind of diversity that you like. (34:51) It's not good if it's not the kind of, but how do you measure that? (34:54) How do you put that in a number?(34:55) And I just don't think that science has a good answer to that. (34:58) People who publish papers have to have some answer. (35:00) And so they come up with all kinds of explanations, but none of them have, I found, you know, particularly useful.(35:05) Now, in terms of like the kefir, to be more precise about what I found. (35:10) So it was very clear to me that unlike a lot of the other things, like the probiotic pills or the kombucha, it was very clear to me that kefir did make a change in my microbiome. (35:23) And that is, you know, that's something to look at.(35:27) Now, I test myself on a lot of things. (35:29) So sleep and whatever else, the problem for me, especially like when I was doing this experiment is that I'm actually generally pretty healthy. (35:36) So it's not like there was some kind of noticeable, like improvement.(35:41) If I'd had gut issues or if I'd had, you know, maybe suffering from some other kind of problem, I might have, you know, found this to be really, you know, helpful for me. (35:49) It just wasn't that, like, I just didn't have any problems. (35:51) So it didn't hurt anything.(35:53) It didn't help. (35:54) You know, it's, you know, did I feel more energy? (35:57) I don't know.(35:58) Yeah, I always feel a fair amount of energy. (36:02) So, and, you know, it didn't affect my sleep, but, you know, I already get pretty good sleep. (36:06) So that was kind of what was for me.(36:08) The reason why this is an interesting experiment is because I believe that the things that I discovered through this process are useful for other people who maybe are considering, like, changes that they can make that will improve, you know, some problem that they are working on. (36:25) Because the thing I would say is start with kefir because it definitely, at least for me, definitely made a difference in my microbiome. (36:32) And maybe if your microbiome needs some change, this is, you know, this is one way that I would suggest you try it to, because I think it'll work.

Marcus Arredondo

(36:38) Well, this caught my eye because, for better or worse, my three-year-old, two-year-old at the time, now three, loves kefir. (36:46) He didn't love milk. (36:47) He didn't like a lot of other things.(36:48) And to a large degree, I feel like kids at that age are not, and he's been very limited exposure to sugar. (36:54) And, you know, there's a lot of natural foods and stuff. (36:57) And my only point in bringing that up is that I think he probably has a greater connection to his natural.(37:01) Yeah.

Richard Sprague

(37:02) Do you make it yourself?

Marcus Arredondo

(37:04) Excuse me?

Richard Sprague

(37:05) We don't, but I heard this.

Marcus Arredondo

(37:06) So I was going to ask the following question. (37:07) You know, where do we find that? (37:11) It is a seed, correct?(37:12) Or a grain, rather.

Richard Sprague

(37:12) So I got it from a friend. (37:14) Ask around a little bit. (37:15) I'm sure somebody in your area has it.(37:18) And your friend will not mind giving it to you because if you make kefir daily, you're going to have a lot of extra to give out to people. (37:27) And you can buy it online. (37:29) The guy that I got it from claims that he originally got it from mail order.(37:33) I think he did two different kinds. (37:35) One was from, supposedly, like a lot of people say this one from Australia is really good. (37:39) I don't know.(37:39) That's just what I was using. (37:41) But you definitely got to try it. (37:42) It's the easiest thing ever.(37:44) Literally, what I do is I take a glass of milk. (37:47) I put the little kefir grain. (37:49) The kefir grain looks like a little piece of cauliflower.(37:51) You drop it in the glass of milk, leave it on the counter. (37:54) The next morning, when you get back, that glass of milk will be a glass of something that looks like yogurt. (38:00) And then I reach in with my finger.(38:01) I pull out the grain. (38:03) I drink this glass. (38:04) I pour milk in another glass and drop the grain in that one.(38:07) And then it's ready the next day.

Marcus Arredondo

(38:10) You're doing it daily?

Richard Sprague

(38:11) It's the easiest thing ever. (38:11) Yeah, yeah. (38:12) I don't actually do it right now.(38:14) I haven't done it now for a while. (38:15) But when you do it, it's an easy thing to do. (38:19) I appreciate that.(38:20) All right. (38:20) Sorry for the detour. (38:21) Please keep going.(38:22) Yeah. (38:23) Well, this is what I wanted to say. (38:24) But I mean, I can talk all day about microbiome stuff.(38:26) If there's something in particular that you're interested. (38:29) This is kind of the broad takeaway that I took from all my different microbiome experiments is that a lot of things that you hear that may be good for your microbiome, probiotic supplements, kombucha, I don't really think they make much difference. (38:45) And this gets back to my bigger point about just because somebody says something to you or just because you read somewhere that there's this, you're low on magnesium.(38:55) Don't just take it for granted that some scientific study out there says more magnesium is good and therefore it's good for you. (39:02) There are ways to test for magnesium or whatever. (39:05) And see if you can find something where you're basing your opinion more on real data that you collected for yourself, as opposed to because somebody else told you that it was going to be good for you.

Marcus Arredondo

(39:17) I appreciate that. (39:18) Well, as we sort of depart from the microbiome, you had mentioned at one point that you can detect early signs of conditions like Parkinson's or dementia in your microbiome or within your saliva prior to actually having symptoms.

Richard Sprague

(39:38) Yeah, well, okay. (39:39) So obviously, I am just me, so I haven't been, I mean, I don't know if I'll have Parkinson's or if I'll have dementia or whatever like that yet because my experiment's not over yet. (39:48) But there are a lot of other people who have done these sorts of experiments and I think it's very compelling.(39:55) Now, and this gets back to kind of the personal science idea here. (40:00) When you read a study someplace that says that such and such microbe is associated with Parkinson's disease, that's great. (40:10) It's interesting to read that and the New York Times will always have a really nice summary of it and make it sound very compelling.(40:16) But what you really want to know is, do I have that microbe? (40:20) Right. (40:21) Or maybe if there's somebody in my family who's got Parkinson's disease, do they have that microbe?(40:26) If I don't, it's irrelevant. (40:30) It all comes back to like, does that matter for you yourself? (40:35) Because these big broad studies that show that magnesium or such and such peptide or whatever is good for you, it doesn't mean anything.(40:44) It doesn't mean anything unless it's good for you. (40:47) And every single study that you ever look at is going to show a curve of people for whom that thing worked really, really well. (40:54) Some people for whom it didn't work all that well, and other people who maybe even were hurt by it.(41:00) But when they report the study, most of the time they're just going to report the median. (41:04) And if they have enough people in the study, maybe they'll be able to have a lot of confidence in that medium. (41:09) But that does not mean anything if it doesn't apply to you.(41:13) Right. (41:14) You know, the extreme example that I always like to give is pregnancy. (41:18) Half of all people in this world can get pregnant.(41:23) And but that doesn't mean anything to you if you're not a woman.

Marcus Arredondo

(41:28) Okay. (41:28) So let me just go through a couple of other things that have caught my eye. (41:32) Please go in any direction that you want.(41:33) If you find that there's more compelling. (41:35) What have you found as a result of your glucose monitoring experience?

Richard Sprague

(41:40) So glucose monitoring. (41:43) Maybe you or your listeners know about how easy it is these days to get a continuous glucose monitor.

Marcus Arredondo

(41:48) And I did it for about a year myself too.

Richard Sprague

(41:50) So you know, you understand like how cool it is, because unlike a lot of these other tests where you have to wait a week or two to get the results, or even in the case like blood testing, you still have to wait the next day. (42:00) With continuous glucose monitor, you get it continuously. (42:03) And it's just so revealing to eat something and then right there in real time, see what it does to your glucose levels.(42:10) And I've done a zillion of these sorts of experiments. (42:12) One of the things that was eye opening to me was, you know, I had always thought that oatmeal is healthy. (42:18) And I guess it is.(42:20) But if you wear a continuous glucose monitor while you're eating oatmeal, you're immediately going to realize that to the degree that high glucose spikes are bad, we can talk about that's a separate issue, but oatmeal will spike your glucose. (42:33) But on the other hand, one of the other things that I learned is that there's ways to make it so that the oatmeal doesn't spike, at least for me. (42:40) And the easiest way for me is to add cream or some kind of fat to the oatmeal, which is what I do now.(42:47) And you can go on and on and discover those things all the time. (42:50) Another one, like, for example, you know, it turns out that even a little bit of alcohol will affect the glucose spike. (42:59) And for some people, it actually dampens it.(43:02) So I know one guy who, working with a doctor who understands a lot about glucose spikes and everything else, was wearing a CGM. (43:10) And it just turns out that for him, it's a good idea for him to drink a small amount of wine after dinner to just keep the glucose spike from, in his case, from causing any kind of problems. (43:20) Yeah, that will work for everybody.(43:22) Might not even work for most people. (43:23) But by using that sort of everyday watching and carefully seeing how your body responds, you can learn a lot about yourself. (43:31) So yeah, CGMs are something I really, really recommend.

Marcus Arredondo

(43:34) Yeah, you had given an anecdote about how eating pasta with...

Richard Sprague

(43:39) Yeah, that was fun. (43:40) So for me, tomato sauce is a no-no with pasta, whereas a pesto seems to be much better.

Marcus Arredondo

(43:48) You know, those are little things that are like... (43:49) Because you're a butter, sort of cream...

Richard Sprague

(43:51) Yeah, uh-huh, yep.

Marcus Arredondo

(43:52) ...anecdote. That's super interesting. (43:55) Breathing, the relationship between CO2 and how it burns fat versus carbohydrates. (44:01) Do you remember a post about this?

Richard Sprague

(44:04) I haven't done a lot of super careful study. (44:09) That's something that I do want to look into. (44:11) People have talked to me about different kind of breathing techniques.(44:14) So there's box breathing and different things. (44:17) It actually turns out that for my vagus nerve stimulator work right now, one of the things that you're supposed to combine it with is breathing exercise. (44:24) So I haven't gotten around to that, but that's definitely something I want to look into.

Marcus Arredondo

(44:27) Well, let's talk about the vagus nerve stimulator, because I recently... (44:30) I've just started to experiment with the Apollo.

Richard Sprague

(44:34) Oh, uh-huh, mm-hmm.

Marcus Arredondo

(44:36) And I'm exclusively using it for sleep with the attempt to increase my deep sleep. (44:41) But this is my first foray into it, so I know very little. (44:45) What can you share about...(44:47) Because this seems like a relatively new pursuit.

Richard Sprague

(44:50) It is new. (44:50) Here's the one that I'm going to be... (44:52) I'm working on right now.(44:53) We're hopefully going to be selling this before long.

Marcus Arredondo

(44:55) You're holding up over the earphones.

Richard Sprague

(44:59) Yeah, and you can see on the right earphone, there are kind of these little plugs that are sticking out. (45:06) And when you put these on your ears, they look just like normal headsets, but these little plugs kind of poke into the inside of the ear. (45:17) I hope that they're soft, because it looks like there's a plug going into your earlobe.(45:20) Yeah, yeah. (45:21) They're very soft. (45:23) You won't feel it.(45:24) But what it does is it applies a very small electrical stimulation. (45:28) And the theory being that there's something in the ear that connects directly to the vagus nerve. (45:36) The vagus nerve is a super important way that the brain connects to the gut.(45:42) And a lot of people don't know this, but there are as many nerve cells in your gut as there are in the rest of your body. (45:49) And so there's something going on. (45:51) There's a lot of communication happening between the brain and the gut.(45:55) And this vagus nerve stimulator, essentially, the theory behind it is that it will kind of like ignite something. (46:02) So it makes the vagus nerve be a little bit more active than it normally would be, and therefore promoting more of a communication between the gut and the brain, which will give you a sense of calm and maybe protect you from some anxiety. (46:16) So that's the theory.(46:17) I've been playing with myself just to see, and I don't have an answer yet. (46:20) But I'll let you know when I figure it out. (46:22) I find the research behind it pretty compelling.(46:24) And a lot of people I know really swear by it.

Marcus Arredondo

(46:25) From what I've read, it's been compelling. (46:28) Like I said, my toe's in the water, not my entire body yet. (46:34) Electromagnetic testing.(46:34) I know that there was a story about how your daughter ended up having migraines.

Richard Sprague

(46:39) This is a fun story. (46:40) So people wonder, is all this EMF, electromagnetic field radiation that you're getting from various household electronics or cell phone towers, is that affecting our health at all? (46:54) Well, you can read a study here and there.(46:57) The government says it's just fine. (47:00) Certainly the cell phone companies think it's all just fine. (47:04) But is it really fine?(47:06) The state of California, like in San Francisco, when you buy a phone, it says that this is dangerous for you. (47:12) So who are you going to believe? (47:14) Well, you can buy testing equipment.(47:18) I paid, I think, $150 or $200 or something for this little device that actually senses. (47:24) You can read more about whether the devices, how well they work and everything else, but this one is one that I trust. (47:30) So it actually senses the electromagnetic radiation in your house.(47:32) I discovered a whole bunch of things about my house. (47:35) There was an electric fan that we had in one room, which we left it plugged in, even in the winter. (47:42) But it turns out that thing was blasting out electromagnetic radiation, even though it was turned off.(47:46) Just having it be plugged in made a difference. (47:48) So the thing that stimulated this investigation for me was because my daughter was in her early teens and had just started feeling migraines. (47:58) And it was very odd.(48:00) Nobody else in our family really has migraines. (48:02) And so like, what was going on with this? (48:03) And we noticed that our neighborhood had a cell phone tower that was aimed kind of at her window.(48:10) Like, if you looked, you could see kind of off in the distance. (48:13) And I was thinking, and they had recently upgraded a 5G. (48:16) So all the worries, like, what can we find out about this?(48:20) And so I went around with my little detector and I looked, and in her room, it actually turned out that the place where the most electromagnetic radiation was coming from was right on her pillow, on her bed. (48:34) And so I was like, OK, this is it. (48:36) So I called up the cell phone company, AT&T, and I said, you know, that's your tower over there.(48:42) And my daughter has got migraines. (48:45) You know, what? (48:46) Can you go double check that maybe you're not doing something wrong here, like with that cell phone tower?(48:53) And immediately, this lawyer gets ahold of me. (48:56) And there's like a team of scientists and everybody else that come back and say, OK, we're going to go and inspect your house inside and out. (49:03) We're going to get to the bottom of this because there's no way that we want to see any of our cell phone towers causing any kind of any kind of problems.(49:09) And long story short, they did. (49:12) They sent a special guy up from California to investigate this cell phone tower. (49:18) And he had a much bigger meter than anything that I had.(49:21) And long story short, he concluded, and I agree that there was nothing special about that, that cell phone tower. (49:29) And it was not the cause of the migraines. (49:30) But it was very reassuring to know exactly why and how.(49:35) And it turned out that, for example, the thing around her pillow, that wasn't the cell phone tower radiation that was caused by some other things that were in the house, which are easily fixed. (49:45) But nevertheless, that that did not solve the migraine problem. (49:48) That was not the solution.(49:49) But it was very comforting to realize that now I don't need to wear a tinfoil hat and I don't need to be worried about 5G radiation from that cell phone tower.

Marcus Arredondo

(50:00) Anything you can share about the resolution for the migraines? (50:05) It turns out it's coffee.

Richard Sprague

(50:07) Oh, interesting. (50:07) So for her, actually, it's the opposite of what you might think. (50:10) A lot of people get triggered by coffee.(50:12) But in her case, it turns out that actually having coffee helps. (50:18) And this is something that I've talked to a lot of other migraine sufferers. (50:21) And I think what's going on is that your body, whatever is causing the migraine, there's something that's like kind of building up.(50:28) Pressure that's building up over and over and over like day to day. (50:32) And at some point, it just becomes too much and it just pops and that triggers the migraine. (50:37) I think that for some people, my daughter is one of them.(50:40) If you pop that bubble a little bit at a time, it won't get so big. (50:46) So whereas coffee is often a trigger for migraines in some people, for her, it's a trigger. (50:52) But as long as you just have like one cup a day, it actually triggers it before it turns into something big.(50:57) So that was our discovery.

Marcus Arredondo

(50:59) So what is it? (51:00) Is it the caffeine or is it the coffee bean?

Richard Sprague

(51:03) That's a good question. (51:04) I don't know. (51:06) Everybody says it's the caffeine.(51:07) I don't know. (51:08) It might be something about the coffee itself. (51:10) I don't know.(51:11) But coffee is nice as a treatment because it's a well-respected drink. (51:17) You can get it anywhere as long as you like to drink it. (51:20) So rather than like Red Bull or something, coffee is an easy thing.

Marcus Arredondo

(51:24) What about, so can you talk a little bit about OptiCare AI and sort of how you're using that and what do you think the future of that technology is going to be?

Richard Sprague

(51:34) Yeah, this was a product that kind of landed because of a guy that I used to work with when I lived in China. (51:42) You know, the eyes are an interesting place to think about health because the eye is the one part of the body where you can visibly view the circulatory system. (51:54) There are little blood vessels in your eye and the nervous system, your retina, at the same time.(51:58) So any condition that might affect your circulatory system or your nervous system is going to be reflected in the eyes. (52:06) Now, there are various different kinds of like traditional medicine or whatever that depend on looking at the iris. (52:13) I'm not talking about that.(52:15) Because of the way that high technology, like high resolution photography and AI have met up in the last few years, it becomes possible now to take high resolution photos of your eye and then run it through an algorithm that will compare your eyes to zillions of others. (52:30) So I worked with my friends to come up with this data set of zillions of images of people at various different types of pathologies, Alzheimer's, diabetes, etc. (52:40) And then we just run an algorithm where we take a picture of your eye and we compare it to all those.(52:45) And then we come up with a health score that basically says, well, you are this similar to somebody who's got a propensity to Alzheimer's, or you're this similar to somebody with diabetes or something else. (52:59) And so we've tried to come up with a health score that. (53:01) Now, again, like the way that this works, in order to be able to make actual claims about diagnosis, the FDA requires that you undergo a pretty significant battery of tests and clinical studies and whatever.(53:14) And we don't have the funding to be able to do that yet. (53:17) But part of what I believe in this is, again, my whole personal science, like going after the consumer market kind of thing is that like, why should normal people have to wait for that to happen? (53:29) I think the technology is cheap.(53:31) We're able to manufacture this and sell it for a couple thousand dollars, which is not the kind of thing that a normal person would just go by. (53:38) But it's definitely like within the range of somebody who's a naturopath or a dietician or somebody who just wants to be able to have, you know, to serve, you know, customer like find clients and just like let them try it out. (53:50) We try it out at trade shows all the time.

Marcus Arredondo

(53:52) Yeah.

Richard Sprague

(53:52) And what can we do to make that stuff be available to everybody right now? (53:57) You can try it out right now. (53:59) See what it says.(54:00) I trust that you are able to make up your own mind. (54:02) If I tell you that you've got this much similarity to somebody with Alzheimer's, I trust that you can figure out what to do with that. (54:10) Don't make your whole decision on this one camera device.(54:14) But at the same time, it's nice that we are able to offer that kind of technology to normal people in, you know, otherwise it's going to take 10 years and it's going to cost a lot more money. (54:24) And that's just one of the many things that I think is, you know, that's a new kind of product that I want to make available to normal people.

Marcus Arredondo

(54:30) Yeah. (54:30) So I think this is a parallel and complement to another post that you had talked about the benefits of blood testing, if not more frequently, but certainly a more proactive approach to getting your biomarkers. (54:44) The study you had done was on Function Health, which I think is certainly a very interesting company.(54:51) I've started to do it quarterly through another company as well. (54:55) And I'm sort of teeing this up for you as it relates to, you know, how you might be using AI. (54:59) But you, among some others, have also alluded to the benefits.(55:03) Now, there's privacy concerns, but I guess I'm a little bit less concerned about it for whatever the reasons. (55:09) But, you know, now that I've got a select data set that are marking trends, you know, like I've got a Hume scale that gives me data about my, you know, the makeup of my body, not just my weight. (55:22) Now, is that off?(55:23) Potentially, I've done the DEXA scan, I've done the EMBODY scan, they're marginally different, but by and large, my biggest concern are trends, trend lines, and sort of directions of where I'm going. (55:34) And the biomarker situation is a little bit like, I've used this reference before, it's like a whack-a-mole where there's so many different levers and buttons that are going on. (55:45) Just because you sort of solve one doesn't mean the others are going to follow suit.(55:49) And maybe you start to follow, those start to follow suit, and maybe these others start to go a little haywire. (55:54) And so there's a series of experimentation. (55:55) But where I'm landing the plane here is with that data that I've been able to gather and use AI, I have found AI to be, at the minimum, as helpful, but at most, substantially more helpful than a human because of the conversation.(56:13) Now, I don't take it at its word 100%.

Richard Sprague

(56:16) But you don't take your doctorate at its word 100% either, so yeah.

Marcus Arredondo

(56:20) Absolutely. (56:20) And I will say that when I look at this data, the information it's giving me is highly curated to the nuances within my own biomarkers. (56:29) In other words, you're not just looking at an LDL score, you might be looking at a small LDL score in conjunction with the LDL and your APOB and your A1C, all of these different elements that I think are critical that paint the picture.(56:44) So anyway, the blood testing is an example. (56:47) I think the capture of the moment with your eye, even your microbiome, what you were suggesting about, test it on Monday, but also test it on Tuesday, and that might tell a different picture. (56:57) And really, with the increased number of data inputs that you have, you can actually create a more fruitful picture that is informative in a way that is completely dissimilar to, I feel like, how backwards our healthcare system generally is, where it takes this one momentary snapshot.(57:14) Oftentimes, I find traditional doctors are not seeking those biomarkers. (57:17) They're just looking at very simple ones. (57:20) If you're not sort of being proactive and requesting them, they're not naturally being obtained on your behalf.(57:25) And I know people that are 12% body fat that are still high on the BMI. (57:33) They're technically obese. (57:34) And it's like, you're not taking into consideration their body mass, their lean muscle mass, their fat content.(57:40) There's a number of other things that are weighing in there. (57:42) So I'm sort of putting all this out there, but I'm curious how you're using that data, what you think it portends for the future of people who are going to have increasing access to this, and how people might start to consider using AI.

Richard Sprague

(57:54) Yeah. (57:55) So it's interesting you say about privacy. (57:58) I agree with privacy for, you know, if somebody wants to keep their medical data private, then definitely, definitely.(58:05) That's none of my business. (58:06) It's none of your business. (58:07) They need to be able to keep it private.(58:08) So that's extremely important. (58:10) But there are a lot of people like me, and maybe you, and a lot of people who are, I'm okay with, you know, if you want to have my data, like, especially if you're able to give me some kind of insight. (58:21) I don't have anything, you know, secretive that I want to, you know, that I want to protect.(58:25) In fact, I think that in some ways, by being able to give it out more freely, I'm more likely to be able to get real answers that are going to help me. (58:33) And so I definitely want to make it be more available to people. (58:35) And I think that in general for health, privacy is overrated.(58:40) People are a little bit too scared about things. (58:42) You know, people got all upset because I guess 23andMe was going to get sold, and then all their genetic data was going to go out and everything else. (58:50) Well, guess what?(58:51) You know, your genetic data, if somebody wants to get it, first of all, it's not that important. (58:56) Like, in the grand scheme of things, nobody really cares about your DNA. (59:00) And second of all, if they really did care, they'd be able to get it anyway.(59:04) You're not going to make a zillion dollars off your DNA unless you collect a lot of it and do some kind of analysis on it. (59:10) You know, your DNA is just not all that useful. (59:12) And that's true for so much other health data.(59:17) Now, you know, put that aside, though, one of the things that has become really possible (59:22) just in the last couple of years, thanks to AI, is that the data that ordinarily would (59:28) have been too hard for you to bother analyzing, or you would have had to get a friend who (59:32) knows Python or knows how to do programming, or maybe if you know spreadsheets well enough, (59:37) you'll spend the weekend with Excel and doing macros and all kinds of stuff, be able to (59:41) do some kind of analysis on it.(59:43) Now you can do that in seconds. (59:45) And so what I do, and I've completely given up bothering to write software that I used to do for some of this analysis, because you can do it so much easier in ChatGPT. (59:56) I actually use Claude.(59:57) That's the one that I usually prefer for various reasons. (1:00:00) But they have this concept of a project, and you can put any files that you want that are associated with that project. (1:00:09) And so I upload every single thing that I can think about, like all of the PDFs from my blood tests, the screenshots from doctor visits, anything that I can think of.(1:00:20) Of course, all of my old data about my sleep, my Apple Watch, my everything, that's all in there, every single thing that I can think of. (1:00:27) Weight changes, every single thing that I can think of is in there. (1:00:30) And then when I have a question or I have something I want to know the answer to, I just ask it.(1:00:37) And then I say, you know, give me, you know, I'll say like, give me the counter arguments, give me more details, like what is another test that I might want to consider as a follow up, blah, blah, blah. (1:00:48) And then I'll take if there's something about the answer that I don't trust or that I'm kind of curious about or something, I'll take that answer and I'll feed it into the other LLM, ChatGPT or to Grok or something else and say, this is what I heard, you know, tell me why this is wrong or something. (1:01:07) And you just like battle these different LLMs against each other.(1:01:10) And I really think, I mean, it would be hard to convince me that there's a doctor out there that can do a better job than this, at least, you know, for me personally.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:01:18) This is always what I've, you know, I think a lot of people have looked for for a really long time, which is some sort of quarterback that can sort of assimilate a broader macro level understanding of all the nuances going on. (1:01:29) Because most of the time we go see a specialist, they're sort of operating within a silo that's an echo chamber on less informed than they could be by virtue of having access to all this. (1:01:40) And I would imagine most specialists aren't going to spend the time to look back five years or years to understand all of it.

Richard Sprague

(1:01:45) Yeah, that's right. (1:01:46) And I definitely don't want to dismiss specialists because, you know, they're specialists for a reason and they're very smart and I can definitely learn something from them. (1:01:53) But like you say about the they don't necessarily have the time.(1:01:56) And again, like they just don't care as much as you do. (1:02:01) So they're not going to look at all the different things that are going on or think of additional questions for you. (1:02:08) They're not going to be doing the that's funny kind of like, you know, additional accidental discoveries that you can because you're coming up with that stuff every day.(1:02:16) Now, that said, I do think there's a role for those specialists. (1:02:20) And I think that anybody and I mean, I have a doctor that I go to and anybody who's serious about their health is going to want to work with somebody who's gone through the training, who understands all this stuff. (1:02:31) And but I think that we're all a lot more empowered now than we used to.(1:02:35) It used to be that you had to take the person's word for it. (1:02:38) And now the rest of us can kind of look at it and say, and I do this all the time with my doctors. (1:02:42) I'll say, you told me such and such the last time I visited you.(1:02:45) I looked in chat, UBT, it says this. (1:02:48) And in a good, thoughtful doctor like mine will look at that and say, hmm, you've got a good point there. (1:02:55) Or one of the things he said to me recently, like when I had a question about one thing is that he said, ah, that actually is something we did look at previously, but I didn't bother talking about it because of such and such and blah, blah, blah.(1:03:10) So really smart and good doctors, clinicians, naturopaths, all these people, the ones who are adopting AI are going to be way ahead of the curve. (1:03:19) And they're going to be a real asset to you, even if you're using it yourself, because it's always nice to be able to have somebody out there whose full-time job it is to go and look at these things and get to be better at it.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:03:30) Well, I know we're coming up on time, so I want to bring this to a close, but a couple of questions that I would be remiss without sort of addressing, which is, do you ever feel overwhelmed by the amount of tracking you're doing on a daily basis? (1:03:42) I mean, because, I mean, I just think of Brian Johnson to some degree, which I think you are in sort of a similar camp and maybe not to the same degree, but like you're there tracking a number of different variables, not just your metrics, which are measured, but also what you're putting in and potentially, you know, what about your workouts? (1:04:02) What about, you know?

Richard Sprague

(1:04:04) So I'll say a couple of things. (1:04:05) You know, first of all, like, you know, I'm glad Brian Johnson's out there. (1:04:08) I'm glad there are people doing what he's doing.(1:04:10) I'm not sure how useful that is. (1:04:12) And I have my own concerns about Brian Johnson's approach about some of these things that, you know, he's famous for a reason. (1:04:22) And, you know, some people want to be famous.(1:04:24) And, you know, there are ways to get famous that aren't necessarily, you know, consistent with doing the right thing. (1:04:31) So, you know, but I'm glad that he's doing this stuff and I'm glad that we can, you know, benefit from it. (1:04:36) He's also selling a product.(1:04:37) Yeah. (1:04:37) So like, you know, so, but, you know, but again, I'm open-minded, so I want to listen to everybody, including him. (1:04:41) And I want to see what he has to say.(1:04:43) Uh, one of the things that is sort of, uh, deepening realization for me over time is, um, the fact is that for better or for worse, almost all of the interventions that you want to do, um, can be summarized with, um, you know, eat more fruits and vegetables and get some exercise, get some sleep, try to lower your stress, stuff that your mom was telling you from day one. (1:05:09) And that gets you probably 80% of the way there. (1:05:13) Your genetics gets you a little bit further and there's not a lot you can do about the genetics.(1:05:17) There's the microbiome. (1:05:18) There's, you know, there's a couple of things you can do there, but for most people, make sure you've got those basics covered. (1:05:25) Like don't spend all your money and time on peptides when you're still eating cheeseburgers or whatever.(1:05:31) Like that's like, that's, that should be table stakes. (1:05:33) And most of us already kind of know what we need to do and what we need to work on. (1:05:38) You know, like if you're, um, you know, you know, you, you probably should be doing more resistance training and you know that.(1:05:44) Right. (1:05:45) So like, do it. (1:05:46) Don't spend your, you know, trying to whatever the blood, whatever plebiscis or whatever that Brian Johnson does with his son.(1:05:54) Like, don't, don't look into that stuff. (1:05:56) Look into the basics first. (1:05:58) And I think a lot of people just need to realize that.(1:06:00) The other thing I'll say a lot about these interventions, like, so I do a lot of experiments, but often it turns out to be the case that things that work, work. (1:06:09) Things that don't work require a lot of analysis to be able to show that it kind of sort of worked. (1:06:15) So if you take the sleep, you know, supplement and you're kind of like, well, I think I slept better.(1:06:22) I don't know. (1:06:23) And you take the next day and you're like, oh, maybe today that maybe the reason I didn't sleep well is because of such and such. (1:06:27) Then guess what?(1:06:28) It probably doesn't work that well.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:06:29) Yeah.

Richard Sprague

(1:06:30) Like if it works, it works.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:06:31) Well, that's helpful. (1:06:33) Cause I, my, my, my, you sort of took the words a little bit out of my mouth, which was, you know, to somebody who might be 15 or somebody that's 75 and never really tracked anything in their life. (1:06:42) I think those are really wise suggestions to focus on.(1:06:45) What would you suggest they, you know, cause somebody who's just in entering this world of trying to take more responsibility and accountability autonomy for your, their own wellbeing the amount of content out there is overwhelming. (1:07:00) It's just, it's infinite. (1:07:02) And so I think there's, I know a certain family member who's been investigating this further and the response is always, you know, I don't even know where to begin.(1:07:11) It's just, am I ever going to be able to understand this? (1:07:13) What would you suggest to somebody in that role to, you know, what are the three, five, what, I don't know if there's a number, but fundamentally what should, should they start focusing on just to build a greater understanding of how their body's working and how to make improvement on their ongoing wellbeing and their future health span?

Richard Sprague

(1:07:39) Well, if you, you corner me and ask me for specifics, I'm going to reply that, you know, it's different for everybody. (1:07:44) So unfortunately, like you're just going to have to go on your own and figure it out. (1:07:49) Now that said, we've already talked about here.(1:07:52) A couple of things that I think have worked really well for me that I think people should look into, you know, CGMs, definitely try that out for a while. (1:08:00) Kefir, you know, go for it. (1:08:02) And then it's always the basics.(1:08:04) So like, don't wander off on this other path until you've, you know, solved some of the basic things. (1:08:09) Now that said, like even like something about nutrition, I mentioned fruits and vegetables. (1:08:13) You're going to run into people who tell you that actually fruits and vegetables, you know, it's got whatever fructose is bad for you and there's lectins in the grains and there's like, oh, like people will tell us that kind of stuff.(1:08:24) And I don't know if there's a shortcut. (1:08:26) I think that you just have to like develop a mindset and maybe it's a lifetime project that you have to undergo. (1:08:32) And that's kind of the way it is for me.(1:08:34) You know, I'll say that is part of the inspiration for why I've been doing this personal science sub stack is because I don't know the answer, but I'm hoping that by just having a regular routine where I think about my answers and then write it down is going to help me get a little bit closer. (1:08:50) I think what we all want to do is just get a little closer to where we want to be.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:08:56) I'd also regret not asking, what's your writing process like? (1:08:59) I mean, you have a regular cadence. (1:09:01) Do you, I mean, that has to be cathartic.

Richard Sprague

(1:09:04) Well, for me, first of all, this is what I do all day. (1:09:07) So like I spend all day thinking about personal science stuff. (1:09:10) And so we can go into more details about like my exact, like the, you know, the software and stuff that I use, but essentially what I do is when I'm reading things online, I'll make a note of things that I think are interesting.(1:09:22) And then I'm always writing something. (1:09:25) So I'm always writing and summarizing what it is that I've learned or something like this. (1:09:28) And then I do have, I try to have this weekly cadence.(1:09:30) I try to come up with, you know, so like it's, it's a Thursday deadline. (1:09:34) I just set that for myself for many years. (1:09:36) I've set that for myself.(1:09:37) And so I've just got to come up with something and it just becomes part of my workflow that I'll say, well, on Monday, I saw this on Saturday. (1:09:45) I saw that we put all together and, and then that comes together. (1:09:48) Now that said, um, AI is helping a lot now too, because whereas something required me a lot of investigation to figure out what the bottom line is about something or other.(1:09:58) Now it's way easier to go do a, um, like a research project and get the answers right away. (1:10:02) So, um, and then what I'll do just in terms of my writing process, after I've written up what I want to write, I will feed that into Claude and I'll say, tell me what's wrong with what I just wrote. (1:10:11) Tell me what else I could say.(1:10:12) And that's been really helpful.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:10:14) Yeah. (1:10:15) Um, have you found any good, uh, AI tools for sort of meta-analysis?

Richard Sprague

(1:10:22) Is that something you've ever used? (1:10:24) I mean, you know, chat GPT, that's what these things are getting really good at. (1:10:28) Like, uh, I don't know, there are, there aren't too many things in this world that require a specialized tool anymore.(1:10:35) And, uh, the more that I, you know, the more that I, um, you know, start playing with these things, you know, the more I realized that, you know what? (1:10:42) You just gotta, the, the, these LLMs are really cool. (1:10:46) You know, even like something very simple, like, um, oh, I don't know, like something that might've taken me a long time in the past.(1:10:51) Like I've got a, I go to a website and I see a whole bunch of data on that website about, you know, home sales in such and such region or whatever. (1:10:59) And in the old days I would have had to like, you know, carefully type them out, or maybe I had to write a Python script that go and zip it up. (1:11:05) Now I just say, chat GPT, take that whole page, summarize it.(1:11:10) Yeah. (1:11:11) Put a pretty charts around it and just do it for me. (1:11:14) And I think that's where we're headed.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:11:16) Any closing thoughts or things you think we would have missed?

Richard Sprague

(1:11:21) Well, I actually, um, this is like the segue to talk about more AI stuff because, you know, that is, um, that is definitely where the future is. (1:11:29) So maybe we can talk at some other future time, but there's a ton of other things that we can all learn about AI.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:11:34) And if you've got a few minutes now and you think it's worth, uh, diving into, we can do it. (1:11:38) Otherwise I'd love to have you back.

Richard Sprague

(1:11:40) Well, it's probably not really effective, uh, like efficient to talk as much as I'd like to be able to talk about, but I'll, I'll give you two words though, to close it with is Claude Code.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:11:50) Ah, you did mention this and I'm so, can you elaborate a little bit more?

Richard Sprague

(1:11:53) Well, um, so I, for example, I, I keep track of, I like, I have my note taking process. (1:11:59) I happen to use this, uh, note taking app called Obsidian where I keep track of all of my, um, oh yeah, Notion will work as well. (1:12:07) Well, um, it's possible now to set up Claude Code so that it, it knows all of my notes.(1:12:13) And so now it's just very efficient for me to be able to say, have I ever written anything (1:12:18) about EMF and have I ever seen any websites that talk about EMF and the word EMF, I can (1:12:25) always search for that, but there's something to it where it's able to like go and understand (1:12:29) that what I really want to talk about or what I really want to look for is all my notes (1:12:32) that have to do with something to do with electromagnetic, something other, maybe it's this, (1:12:36) maybe it's that, it's just able to pull it together.(1:12:38) And that's just been revolutionary for me. (1:12:41) So Claude Code, I highly recommend looking into Claude Code.

Marcus Arredondo

(1:12:45) Thank you so much, Richard. (1:12:46) This is, uh, I'm a fan of your, of your writing. (1:12:49) Keep doing the work because I think, um, what you're doing is, is as inspiring as it isn't informative.(1:12:55) And, um, I really appreciate you coming on. (1:12:57) I think there's a wealth of information that you're continuing to unearth. (1:13:00) So I hope to have you back at some point in the future.

Richard Sprague

(1:13:03) Thanks. (1:13:03) I appreciate it. (1:13:03) Yeah.(1:13:04) It's a real pleasure talking to you.

Marcus Arredondo

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