#47 - Beyond Crisis: Rebuilding Lives After Domestic Violence

Domestic and family violence doesn’t announce itself with a single dramatic moment. It often arrives quietly through coercive control, financial abuse, gaslighting, and isolation, until someone’s confidence and sense of choice begins to erode. That’s why we sat down with Katie Viviers, CEO of St Vincent’s Open Support, and Karen Devins, who leads their domestic and family violence program, to explore what recovery actually requires after a person leaves.

We unpack how their purpose-built refuge supports women and children from immediate crisis through to long-term safety, and why wraparound case management matters. From court support and AVO processes to income assistance, childcare, and school transitions when families must relocate, this is about rebuilding from the ground up. Katie and Karen also explain their recovery model, bringing trauma-informed support in-house so barriers like transport, fear, or visa limitations don’t prevent access to care. The focus is dignity and independence, supported over 18 months to two years as families rebuild.

We also step back to the broader picture. Domestic and family violence crosses every postcode and profession. Education plays a critical role in helping people recognise the warning signs, while workplaces have an opportunity to lead through clear policies and safer cultures. The conversation also highlights the importance of sustainable support through recurrent funding, measurable impact, and practical ways individuals and organisations can contribute.

Subscribe, share this conversation with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help more people access support and understand what meaningful action looks like.

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📌  INFORMATION, CONTACTS & LINKS

Open Support Community Connections Program Social Isolation - Connecting with Lonely People in Sydney | Open Support

Open Support DFV Program - Domestic and Family Violence - NSW | Open Support (includes info on red flags, coercive control and supporting friends or family)

Get involved with Open Support - How You Can Get Involved Support | Get involved

If you have specific questions, you can email info@opensupport.org.au

If you are experiencing any form of domestic and family violence or abuse and need support, contact DV Line on 1800 65 64 63 (NSW Residents), who can refer you to our program or another service depending on your needs. If you are anywhere else in Australia, call 1800 RESPECT on 1800 737 732 for further information and support.

If you are in immediate danger or know someone who is, call the police on 000.

Transcript

Why Awareness Must Become Action

Leon Goltsman 0:00

Hello and welcome back to Engaging Conversations. I'm your host, Leon Goltsman, and this program explores the mindset of people and organizations who are committed to building stronger communities, those who step forward when it matters most and create real impact where it's needed. Because whether you're leading a business, shaping policy, or simply part of a community, awareness and action go hand in hand. This episode is especially important because May marks Domestic and Family Violence Prevention Month, a time to raise awareness of the social and personal impact of domestic and family violence and the support available to those affected. The reality is domestic violence does not discriminate. It exists across every postcode, every background, and every walk of life. Today's conversation brings that reality into focus. I'm now joined by Katie Viviers, CEO of St. Vincent's Open Support, and Karen Devons, who leads their domestic and family violence program. And at its core, this is a conversation about recovery, about rebuilding safety, dignity and independence. About understanding the long-term journey people face when starting again and the systems and support required to help them not just to survive but to move forward with strength. It is also a conversation about responsibility and what it means for communities, businesses and individuals to step up, to lead and to be part of the solution. A sincere thank you to Napean Advanced Rehab and Allied Health Centre for supporting today's programme. And to our listeners, this is a conversation worth paying attention to. Because awareness creates understanding. Understanding drives action. And action is what ultimately changes lives. So without further ado, let's get into it.

Katie Viviers 2:01

Hi, I'm Katie Viviers. I'm the CEO of St. Vincent's Open Support. And my name is Karen Devins. I am the DFE manager for Open Support. I get very passionate about telling people about open support. We are a charity that has been around for 35 years, helping some of the most vulnerable people in our community. And our two main programs are in social isolation, helping individuals who are feeling lonely or isolated in community build capacity. And our domestic and family violence, or DFE, program that works with women and children from crisis through to permanent safety.

Leon Goltsman 2:36

So many people hear about domestic and family violence, but often only see it through headlines rather than just understanding what recovery actually requires. Can you help our audience understand what St. Vincent's open support does and how does it support people behind that initial crisis point?

Katie Viviers 2:54

Well, I think generally speaking, in order to be able to answer any question about what we do and why a service like ours adds so much value to the community, you need to understand a little bit about domestic violence and how prevalent it is. We see a lot in our headlines, we see, and and and some horrific headlines, and they are some very bad cases. But it happens in every socioeconomic group, in every uh culture, every belief system, every postcode across New South Wales. So it is it is a very significant problem, and I think it's important to understand that there are people who look just like you experiencing domestic violence every day. So I might pass to Karen though, um, just to talk about what our program does.

Karen Devins 3:36

When we receive a referral, a referral will come through domestic violence line. It can come from the police, the social work. We've had them from schools, from counselors, they come from every direction. Uh, once we get a referral, we'll do a phone call with them to assess them just to make sure they're gonna fit our service and and we're gonna be the right fit for each other. Uh once we do a phone assessment with them, it they can come in as soon as we finish with the phone assessment. So many times the police will bring them over to the refuge and then they'll stay for three months. And while they're there for that three months, they're working with our case managers who help with things like court, housing, child care. We have a family and child worker as well. She helps them go to new schools because when a victim leaves a domestic violence situation and goes to a refuge, they must move out of area. Otherwise, it's too easy for a perpetrator to find them. So they're coming to a brand new area. So the children are moving schools. There's a lot to be done. There's uh we have to do statements with the police for AVOs and things like that to keep people safe. So once they come in, we get started on that straight away. Many are coming in with no income because there's been a lot of financial abuse as well. So we'll have to get on income if they're eligible. If they're not eligible, we we will support them until we can get them on some sort of income.

Inside The Recovery Model

Leon Goltsman 5:00

Well, you've got some interesting programs, ones that are specifically designed to help people. You've got the recovery model, uh, long-term support, rebuilding independence, safety, dignity, and moving beyond crisis response. I mean, some of the things you do are pretty extraordinary. Do you want to just talk about some of those points of difference that you provide that some others may not?

Karen Devins 5:22

I think I think our biggest point of difference is what we call the recovery program, our recovery model. And so when people come in, we have professionals that come in to assist with the trauma that they're experiencing straight away with both the mother and the children. So we have counselors come in, we have art therapy, plant therapy, we have safe touch massage, we have all kinds of different programs that will come in to assist with the trauma. And we brought it in-house so they can come down in their pajamas if they need to, and they don't miss an appointment because we were running into an issue where we were unable to get people the trauma counseling that they needed straight away because of their visa issues. A lot are on temporary visas, so they're not eligible to go to a lot of the programs. So we brought it all in-house to make it easy. And so when they leave, they go into their own private house, so they're going to a private rental. We'll continue to work with them for another 18 months to two years to make sure they're successful. And I think that's another point of difference. We're not just putting them into transitional house, they're going to their own permanent, and we're staying with them, we're still working with them, we're still seeing them probably every fortnight until they no longer need us.

Early Days In Crisis Mode

Leon Goltsman 6:36

And there is a very stark reality of starting over for most people. I mean, that's really hard to do something that they're not used to. Leaving a violent situation is often just the beginning of a much longer, more complex journey. When someone first enters your program, what are they typically going through? And what support do they need most in those early stages?

Karen Devins 6:55

Usually when people come in to the refuge, they have been through months or years of abuse. So they're unable to make a decision at the top of the because of gaslighting, because of course of control, because of all the abuse and the trauma, people come in, they're unable to really make a decision. They're looking for us to tell them what to do. Well, we cannot tell them what to do, but we will give them many options of the choices, and they can make the choices. So we have to educate with DV straight away because they're coming in completely broken. They have no hope. They don't see a future for themselves, they're really quite depressed. So you can see a turnaround, a big turnaround in a couple of weeks, but by a month you see a whole new person with the light on in their eyes, and it's very exciting. So people need to understand that domestic violence is a health and mental health issue. It's not just about housing.

Leon Goltsman 7:48

We know that a lot of programs out there, not all of them are guaranteed to work, because we often hear about people returning to unsafe environments, yet your program has achieved remarkable outcomes in breaking that cycle. What is it about the open support approach that enables people to rebuild their lives and not return to those situations?

Karen Devins 8:08

I think it's a sense of belonging. They have a sense of belonging when they come in. We work very hard to create friendships with each other. And it's because of the addressing the trauma when they come in and the DV education. We do a lot of domestic violence education. Because to break your DV cycle, you need to understand what domestic violence is. You need to understand gaslighting, you need to understand coercive control. Because they sleep in really slowly into a relationship that you don't notice what's happening. And you just lose your ability to make decisions and to think clearly. And so when they can come in, if we can teach you what it is, the beauty about domestic violence is that once you see the red flags, you can't unsee them again.

Leon Goltsman 8:50

Yeah, and and other people tend to see that within those people going through. They can see the changes.

Karen Devins 8:57

Yes, they can see the changes, they can feel the changes.

Katie Viviers 9:00

So our refuge, which we call the cottage, is is purpose-built. We've got eight apartments. And I think, you know, just building on what what Karen was saying there is uh around the dignity and the safety, is that first point of arrival. You're coming into a place that is designed to help women and children. So you come into an apartment with your own key. You've got brand new linen, no one's ever slept on it before. You've got a kitchenette, you've got the basics to create your own little safe home during that crisis period with incredible staff around you that are going to start guiding you on this recovery journey. And as Karen said, with education, with uh connection, um, the right services at the right time. And you go from someone who comes in in this overwhelming state and has to process things several times in the first few days, but try not to keep account of how many times the fire alarm goes off in the first week of any client coming in, because you're in you're in crisis, you don't think clearly. But as Karen said, by the end of that period in the cottage and when they're starting to become ready to transition to permanent housing, you can see a real shift in everything from a person's posture to the language. Um, we had a client last year who said, My children came in as mice and they left as lions. And if that doesn't tell you just in a glimpse what this program can do for women, we are there not just for a short fix. It's not about just coming in for a night's stay, a three-month stay, or whatever stay. It is about giving you life skills so that this becomes permanent. This is part of who you are and your makeup going forward. And I think that speaks to really a lot of the success and why the recovery model works so well. And in fact, last year we didn't have any of our clients return to their perpetrator. So that's that's a pretty amazing outcome.

Leon Goltsman 10:47

Well, that's a great telltale that things are working. You know, the other thing I noticed as well, I mean, you've got beautiful brochures and people can read about it and talk about it, but it's really when you hear from the people that have gone through it that your direction is very much providing holistic care, you're providing a long-term engagement, a wraparound support, empowering them, but also connecting those people with the community. Because when people go through such traumas in their life, it's not only are they in crisis management and trying to survive, but then they have to how you move to thrive. That's exactly it.

Katie Viviers 11:26

Yeah. I think a service like ours allows us to see a whole person. It's not, we're not there just to do financial support or just there for one component. Wraparound support is really all of those things. And if we don't provide it, we're creating a direct connection. And so that those relationships are there in place for the services that that that woman or that family need going forward. Um, and and not everyone's, you know, again, the recovery model is flexible. So not everyone has all of the things all of the time. You can have, um it might be that you start very gently with just some uh counselling services. It might be that actually the income source is is the primary driver that's going to help get you on your feet the fastest. It might be that your child is preparing to transition to school. There's a lot of different factors that come up in an individual's life, and we have the flexibility at open support to time and create a model that will work for that particular individual.

Leon Goltsman 12:29

Well, we touched on social isolation and connection because we know domestic and family violence is often accompanied by isolation. But loneliness itself is also a growing issue across the community.

Proving Impact With Social Return

Katie Viviers 12:41

Yeah. So we have a great program called Community Connections that works with adults in community to build connection. It is what it says on the box. Um, but that is to help people keep well in community. So if you think of, you know, you go to hospital in an acute episode, this is, or you could reach out to a mental health service in an acute moment. This is about saying, actually, how do I have the skills and the capacity so that I can be who I want to be in my community? Am I a retiree? Am I a young musician? Am I someone who works long hours and have no idea how to connect when I get home from work and or disconnect even? And, you know, to find those pieces. So again, we have OpenSport uses a case management model in social isolation. And we have a team of paid and volunteer uh workers that work with individuals around their own goals to build connection that they want in community. And also yeah, so we work with individuals, but we also we can connect individuals with like interests across our cohort, and we also run group programs. So we have a men's group, um, and that is we have cohorts that go through, and when they graduate, those men take over the running of their group. So they've got a ready-formed social circle if they want to continue to be able to do that. Same with women's groups, different craft groups, all of those sorts of things that happen uh in our community.

Leon Goltsman 14:03

And measuring impact, one of the things that stands out is the measurable return on the investment. There is an investment, there's always an investment.

Katie Viviers 14:11

There is especially when you rely on philanthropy.

Leon Goltsman 14:14

Exactly. Because every dollar spent creates multiple dollars in community benefit, and that's what we're really trying to achieve.

Katie Viviers 14:21

Yeah. Absolutely.

Leon Goltsman 14:23

So, how important is it to demonstrate that your work delivers both social and economic value?

Katie Viviers 14:29

So, as a charity, our ability to measure the impact of our service is really important, not only from a where are we best served in our community question, but also are we being efficient with the donated dollar? Like how do we how do we think about that? How are we making the best choices for our clients so that we know that we are providing a service that adds value to the community? And one of the common ways that you measure that is through a thing called social return on investment, which I think you've covered a number of times on your podcast. And so we measure that. Um, so in the social isolation or community connections space, that looks like things like people returning to work, um, how they're using or how they're participating in education, uh, that is things like uh repeat visits to hospitals, and we have a very high social return on investment in that program of a dollar in is returning over $4 in value to the community. Anecdotally, we haven't yet measured this, but anecdotally, the police tell us that having our service in this area reduces the number of welfare checks they have to do because individuals are connected. They know they can refer to us and say, hey, you know, we've checked on this person, they are alone. Can you step in and help them build or reintegrate with the community so that we know that they're safe and they can be enjoying the life that they should be? So that's that's a great outcome for that. In the DFE space, we also measure social return on investment, and that's a lot around hospitalizations, uh, death prevention, um, and the cost of community of those. It's around education, it's around economic aspects like employment factors. What have I missed there, Karen? Have I missed something else?

Karen Devins 16:07

We also look at um the cultural aspect of it, because many of the domestic violence people come in, they have pressure from the family to go back. This is just the way men behave, that sort of thing. So the education not only goes with this person, it goes back to the parents as well and their family members when they bring this information back to community.

Leon Goltsman 16:27

And that's where you really need the support, almost victim blaming.

Business Leadership And Workplace Policies

Karen Devins 16:31

They do. Sometimes they blame the victim, and a lot of times it's because of lack of education. And this is the way it's been for so many years for them, and this is the way they think it's always going to be. And and I guess the same goes for people that are helping other refugees and things like that. They're doing the same thing that they've been doing for many years. And when we can come with something new, such as recovery program, and we realize it works. And I think again, it's about thinking outside that box for both their families and other services.

Leon Goltsman 17:01

And this is why we need the role of businesses and people to step up and lead. And at the Giving Group event, which I was fortunate enough to attend, because I got to see firsthand, as I mentioned earlier, uh, but we also get to see organizations stepping up, not just through donations, but also by embedding responsibility into their own operations and supply chains. And that really stuck with me, I've got to say.

Katie Viviers 17:27

Yeah, I think I think employers have a real opportunity to set the tone, um, both as influencers in the community, but with their own team. Um, and so we see we're seeing an increase in workplace policy. And that event that you mentioned, which was hosted by KPMG, is a fantastic example because they've put policies nationwide that are visible, they are they are working very hard to make them safe. So when I say policies, and that sounds very ethereal, but on the back of every toilet cubicle in KPMG offices across the country are how to get help, what does it look like? We are here for you, what are the supports available? And so they are normalizing a conversation around both for victims and for potential perpetrators. And it's not uncommon, and Karen and I have both been at events where someone has come up to us and said, Oh, I actually think my behaviors might look a little bit like DFE behaviors. Are they? And what do I do? And it's being able to create a space that not only helps protect and support a victim, but allows people to recognize and shine a light on their own behavior that says, you can you can do better, and we're going to help you do better in a way that is also safe for everybody.

Leon Goltsman 18:41

And it's also calling out these behaviors as well.

Katie Viviers 18:44

Absolutely. You know, we we talk a lot about calling out behaviors and the old adage that, you know, the problem you walk past is the problem that you accept. That is that is a leadership challenge, and that is a leadership challenge that exists in our community. And, you know, I love having conversations like this with the audience today, because it means that we are also sharing what is what is okay and what what we want people to be able to think differently about. So I think, you know, going back to your question uh or your point around um business leaders, I think in Australia that is how we're gonna turn the dial. You know, that is those individuals who have the power to influence a group. If we're providing education, they're providing education. Suddenly the knowledge in community and what we're accepting as a community is going to help reduce the incidence over time.

Leon Goltsman 19:32

Yeah, and um when you see large organizations not only are addressing the issue, but they're also putting their money where their mouth is. So in KPNG's case, they're willing to fund and audit.

Katie Viviers 19:47

So the organizations that do it well, I think, are ones that see safety and domestic violence as more than a checkbox on a form. So if you talk about supply chain, you can say, do you have a domestic violence policy? And people can say yes or no. You can take that further. And if they say no, can we help you ride it? Like that is that is the power of a large organization. Now that's not gonna work for every, you know, every every local shop. But that is that is actually saying we can help you, we have skills, and that is how we're gonna make our contribution in this space. So that is massive.

Leon Goltsman 20:18

But it's also saying we practice what we preach.

Katie Viviers 20:21

100%. 100%.

Leon Goltsman 20:23

Yeah, I mean, because you hear a lot of people saying they're gonna do something, and that's all you get.

Katie Viviers 20:28

That's right. That's right.

Leon Goltsman 20:30

Every organization that that does great work, it's really important to continue that. And the way you're gonna do that is obviously sustainable funding, and that matters.

Katie Viviers 20:41

Yeah, multi multi-year funding or a recurrent or predictable funding allows services like ours to plan for the future. You know, obviously we want this problem to not exist, but right now it does. And until that tide turns, we actually need to grow before we can say, yeah, our job is done. So recurrent funding would allow us to put on permanent staff. It would allow us to expand reach, it would allow us to service more women and children or socially isolated individuals in our community by knowing that you know we had we had that uh cash locked and loaded.

Karen Devins 21:16

As far as the recurrent funding as a service level, how that is important for us is we have children and we have mothers who are seeing the clinical psychologist, the child psychologist comes in. And if we don't have recurrent funding, the child can be in the middle of the treatment. And if our funding ends, that trauma assistance also ends. So if we can get recurrent funding, we can make sure these programs are running consistently throughout the year after year after year to help people. One of the stories I think that comes to my mind when we talk about this is that we had a mom come into the cottage. The children were to meet her there after school. They were too afraid. They did not do that, so they returned home. So then we had a week that we had to work. With the family. So we put the child psychologist in place to work with that family. He worked with the children. And after a week, he was um able to get them to see feel safe enough to be able to come into refuge. So then they came into refuge with mom. And he continues to work with them to this day, and they have just an amazing turnaround. And if you could see the difference that it made for that family, it's amazing. But we have to have recurrent funding to be able to do this. Because had their assistance stopped in the middle of anything, they wouldn't have been able to be successful that they are today. But now the children are in universities. Their mom's living in her own home. They've been on a cruise, they've been on holidays, they're doing normal family things. They're very happy. And to see those terrified children only six months before to now functioning adults, it's amazing.

Leon Goltsman 22:56

And we've heard the stories behind the work. We continuously hear the stories behind the great work. But what resonated most at the Giving Group that I mentioned earlier were the personal stories behind the programs. Without breaching confidentiality, can you share an example of the kind of transformation you see through your work?

Katie Viviers 23:16

And you just did mention one story, but if you'd like to add any more that you think another story, I mean there's a lot of stories that come out of a program, and that's I don't know if you can hear the smile in my voice, but that is that is also what we turn up each day because this does make a huge, huge difference. This is a a story that's a little bit older than the one Karen just gave, but one I won't forget. Um, one of the things when the women come to us, sometimes, if particularly if the police has brought them, they are coming with nothing other than the clothes on their back. They might not even have their ID with them. They're very, very limited. And we have this young mum and you know, child on her hip, and she's come in and she says, Oh, I've got $50. Um, well, okay, and no, no, 48. I bought a snack for my son on the way here. And, you know, so there's this sense of accounting in the detail in the in this survival mode that you're sitting in. And the first thing when she came to us and she was telling me this story because she was overwhelmed. And she she then opened her wallet and she showed me a Cole's gift card. And okay, she says, This will forever remind me of the kindness of others and of your service. And I've I sort of said, Oh, what the Cole's gift card? Well, why why? Why tell me more about that? And she said, Well, I when I had $48 and I've walked into my clean apartment with here in this space with everything new and nothing else, the team gave me a voucher to go and be able to do my first grocery shop. And I didn't have to think about where the food was coming from. And I'd I'd accounted for every last cent so carefully. And now I could actually relax and do something for both me and my child in that moment. That knew that instantly told me I'd made the right decision to leave when I did.

Karen Devins 25:03

And with her, the thing about that gift card was that she didn't have to ask for it. She maintained her dignity because we just we just gave it to her when she came in to buy her own food because she didn't have to beg, she didn't have to ask. I think she was very happy with that.

Leon Goltsman 25:20

What it what this story tells me is that people want to feel loved. They want to feel at least at the very minimal acknowledged, known, seen, and valued. And you're doing all those things, doing them well.

Karen Devins 25:36

And I think one of the a proof that we are doing that well is that when we're no longer working with the families, they're off, they're doing their thing, they're successful, they're in community, they're active, they're working, they're educating, they're doing whatever they need to be doing, but they still call us to say something exciting, something good happened to us today. So they still call back to share. So that to me is an indicator that we're doing it correctly.

What People Get Wrong About Recovery

Leon Goltsman 26:01

I think so. See, a lot of people do well, and we want people to do well. Who doesn't want to see our community thrive? And with that, there's a lot of things that people who are doing well really don't understand. But it's also good if they understood if they knew what goes on. Because I think people want to know. And many people really do deeply care about these issues, but don't really understand the complexity of recovery. What do you wish more people understood about domestic and family violence and the recovery process?

Karen Devins 26:35

I guess what I would like people to understand is that it's not an easy fix. It takes time. Um it's it's slower than what people would like to think. It's not about housing, it's about the health, it's about the mental health, it's about education, it's about really understanding what domestic violence is and what you have been through and why you're at the state you are. Because when somebody's is a victim of domestic violence, they come in with the belief that it was their fault. They've heard that so many times and they honestly believe it. And they don't seek help because they act like they uh think that they're a burden to other people. So we have to actively, when they're first in the first week, the first two weeks, we have to actively seek people out because they won't come to the office asking for help normally because they feel like a burden. So we have to get past all of that damage that was done and have them relearn that you're a valuable person. And it it's not a quick fix, but it can be done, and we're doing it, and we'll continue to do it.

Katie Viviers 27:40

Yeah, I think the long-term nature of recovery also starts with respect, and that's we respect our clients when they come for us. Their experience is real. We're seeing them in that moment, but they're also learning to respect themselves and the value that they have. We we know they have value, but reminding themselves and knowing that you have value, that I think is a really important part of breaking the cycle of violence as well. Because if you have a mother who respects herself, she will then be able to be learn the skills if she needs to, or have more confidence in using the skills to set boundaries for her children. Her children will then have respect. They learn healthy relationships and those elements. So we end up creating over time a multi-generational change, not just for one individual, but through that family and as as Karen alluded to earlier, through education, to a broader family unit and hopefully through to a community.

Karen Devins 28:38

So when some of the families come in, there's different aspects that you work with. And when they're living in a domestic violence household, many times the children just need to be quiet. So mom has had to make them be quiet, however, that's going to look. And a lot of times that's giving them the sweet treats that they like to keep them quiet so they're safe. So when they come out and they're living in the cottage, then we see the habits. And those habits you have to continually break and that kind of thing. So we had a child who just wanted to eat ice cream and chocolates all of the time. And mom was feeding them then because she didn't feel confident enough to say no. So we have to then work with the parenting, and it's okay. And we'd never ever correct anybody in front of it, but with this particular one after the event that we were holding, we then talk to mom about, you know, saying no and eating healthy and that sort of thing. And one of our other programs that we have is a movement and healthy eating class. So we have a lady who comes in, she's fantastic, and she has all the life and the energy. And she will teach the children about eating healthy and good choices. So there's many different aspects of recovery.

Leon Goltsman 29:50

So the way I'm seeing it is instead of rewarding somebody's bad habits with treats, you're guiding those children so they can live a healthy life as well in the future.

Karen Devins 30:01

Yeah, the children need the guidance to be able to make their own decisions as well, because some of them will listen to mothers, some of them will not. So if we can educate mom, but educate the child on their own, it also works.

Katie Viviers 30:13

Behaviors in survival mode are really different for behaviors in living your best life.

Leon Goltsman 30:19

Yeah, and these are, again, some of the people who've never gone through such survival mode may not understand the repercussions.

Katie Viviers 30:27

Yeah. And when we talk then about breaking the cycle of violence, and we've touched on this already, but it's it comes back to that respect and boundaries. And that is, those are the behaviors that we want to help reinforce so that generationally we can make change here.

Practical Ways To Help Now

Karen Devins 30:41

On another note, I guess, when we're talking about success and then and what we want people to think about differently is I think many people think about domestic and family violence as a lower socioeconomic issue. And even though you may not see it, as Katie said, it's across every postcode, it's across every every level. So we've had people that come in, have they now we have doctors, we have accountants, we have nurses, midwives. Um, they're they're highly educated people. But with one of the clients as well, she was a doctor, and she said even though she had talked about domestic violence to her own patients many, many times, she couldn't see it for herself until the physical violence happened. So she wasn't even picking up for herself about the emotional abuse, the financial abuse, and that and the gaslighting. And that's how it creeps in so slowly. And so it doesn't matter how educated you are. When when you're a victim of gaslighting and coercive control, it comes in very slowly and subtly, and you don't notice it until it has a big grip on you. And then it's then you're hard to get out. So if the quicker you can get out, the better you're gonna be.

Leon Goltsman 31:58

Yeah. And that people really do want to help. People are kind by nature. Sometimes life gets in the way, and we know that. But there are people who are listening who genuinely want to help out, but just aren't sure where to start. They just don't know. What are some practical ways individuals, businesses, and community leaders can support the work that you're doing?

Katie Viviers 32:22

Um, there's lots of ways that people can support, actually. So you mentioned our giving group. There's that is an obvious way that you know that we're doing a good job. We would love to be able to continue doing that. If you'd like to join the giving group, I'm sure the notes will be available in the in the podcast. And that's that's that's a very tangible way, but not everybody's in a position to give financially. And so there are other elements that we can talk about, which would be advocacy. It's being able to explain to someone who might be in a difficult situation what their options are. It might be calling that person out at a barbecue for their behaviour and what it is that they'd want to be seen. But importantly, for services like ours, it's actually also about things like introductions. Um, you know, if you if you know the person that might be able to help, that's amazing. You know, the the networks, we can't no one does this alone. That's the whole point. We are a community. Um, so introductions to people who might be able to help. You mentioned our brochures earlier. They are a generous gift from one of our one of our partners. Um there are organizations who might have services that they can lend in. Those things are great conversations, and that can happen in any community, not just to services like ours, but those those sorts of opportunities. A great example is that from, you know, we we do put new sheets into our um each of the apartments and they are gifted to us by one partner. When they deliver them, though, there's quite a lot of them, which is amazing. And so we also have another partner in Storage King who provide us with a storage facility at no cost so that we have this amazing system where we can move the different elements of a support package for a family through without increasing the burden on uh financially, we we can achieve the right outcomes.

Leon Goltsman 34:07

Well, every dollar saved is a dollar that can be utilized where it's needed.

Katie Viviers 34:11

Absolutely. And for our program, every dollar that we spend, we're returning $5.30 to the community in value.

Leon Goltsman 34:17

And that's a great investment.

Katie Viviers 34:19

Absolutely.

Karen Devins 34:20

I think another part of giving, I think people tend to think we need to give money and then we never kind of know where the money goes. But what some of the donors we've been working with partnerships, so we're able to, once they give us a a donation, and we we can meet with them quarterly to see where the money's going. So we send them our statistics. They, whatever questions they have for us, they're free to um ask us at any time. And I think it's about keeping in contact as well, that this is actually a partnership.

How To Get Help Or Support

Leon Goltsman 34:48

And it's really important that people are aware of all the great things that you do. And this is one of the reasons why I was so keen to have you on this podcast and go through some of these things. Now, um, if people wanted to get in contact with you or get more information, what is the best way they can reach out?

Katie Viviers 35:07

Absolutely. If you people want to find out more about open support, you can go to our website at www.opensupport.org.au. If though you're a listener and you are currently in a violent situation and you need to get out, the best point of call 247 is the DV hotline. And we'll make sure that that number is in the notes as well for you. So please know that there is always help. For non-urgent stuff, you can absolutely reach out to us. There's contact us on our website. Information on the Giving Group, information on our programs and services, including that community connections piece if you're feeling lonely.

Leon Goltsman 35:40

Fantastic. Katie, Karen, thank you so much. Thank you so much for inviting me here, and thank you so much for a fabulous conversation.

Katie Viviers 35:50

Thank you for letting us share our stories.

Leon Goltsman 35:53

Now that was a conversation I genuinely valued, and I hope you did too. Spending time with Katie and Karen is a real privilege, and what stood out for me most is that this work goes far beyond crisis response. It's about rebuilding lives with dignity, structure, and long-term support. Conversations like this remind us that domestic and family violence is not confined to headlines. It exists across every part of our community, and understanding it is the first step forward to addressing it. My sincere thanks to Katie and Karen for sharing their insights so openly and for the great work that they continue to do every day to support women, children, and individuals finding their way forward. And of course, to our listeners, our team, and the many people working behind the scenes in organizations like this, thank you. It's often the work that we don't see that matters most. The quiet effort, the consistency, and the commitment to helping others rebuild their lives is what truly creates change. Now, looking ahead, we have some very important conversations coming up. We'll be sitting with leaders across business and community, including a conversation on forensic accounting with a leading firm, uncovering insights really spoken about publicly. We'll also be speaking with key community leaders, sharing perspectives and information you're unlikely to hear anywhere else. Not filtered, not shaped by external agendas, but grounded in real experience and real accountability. So if you haven't already done so, follow the program, share it with someone who needs to hear it, and stay connected. If you have a conversation worth sharing or know someone else who does, I'd genuinely love to hear from you. I'm Leon Goltsman, and until next time, stay aware, stay connected, and let's keep building stronger communities together.