EP 15 Nurse

This episode of the Shadow of the Man Show features a conversation with a long-time burner known as Nurse, who recounts her extensive history with the Burning Man festival beginning in 1997. The discussion explores the evolution of the event from its early, less regulated days at Hualapai Playa to its current massive scale, highlighting the transition of her camp, Motel 666, into an unregistered office of satirical bureaucracy out on the open playa. A primary focus of the text is Media Mecca, the organization where Nurse has volunteered for decades to help acculturate journalists and ensure the media understands the community's non-transactional and participatory values. Through personal anecdotes about the Renegade Burn and bringing her parents to the desert, Nurse reflects on how the festival fosters humanistic connections and serves as a vital outlet for radical creativity and communal generosity.

Transcript

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact of Burning Man up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man.

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Wait, I think it might be that Andy. Today our guest is nurse aka Jess Bobier. That's how you pronounce it, right?

That is correct.

Uhhuh. Well, uh, where did it all begin? Like what was your first year on the playa? Like what what got you to go to Burning Man?

Well, um, Andy Grace aka Action Girl.

Uhhuh.

She was dating somebody at the time who turned to us after a great annual event at the time. time in San Francisco called the Cyber Bus. And he said, "You ladies now live in San Francisco. You owe it to yourselves to go to this thing in the desert. Uh there are hot springs," which there were at the time that you could access and amazing art and neon and light like you have never seen. It's called Burning Man.

And that was the first trip itself.

What year was that?

That was 9 7.

Oh, okay.

Yeah,

that was a walai playa.

It was. It was. Yeah. It sounded irresistible. And at the time I was 25. I said, "Why not? We'll leave Friday night and come back after the event." So,

yeah. I'm trying to remember. Do they still burn them in on Sunday then?

Yes.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Later.

Yeah. Because I mean because I similar story Like my first year was 96. I you know and I remember we just like went there for like we got there Saturday and then came back Monday, you know. I mean it's funny thinking about it now. People are like, "Oh, I've been up there for like people be there for like weeks and months, you know,

right? Have no idea."

It's like Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you went in 97 and uh So what did you where'd you camp? Like what did you uh do?

So it was interesting. Andy played in a band. with a group of folks, some of whom had formed a camp I believe for 96 um along with the theme Helco uh Motel 666

and our friend uh Beth Grunvig that year in 96 had made a huge in the um uh like Motel 6 logo but it was Motel 666.

Yeah, I remember that actually passing by that. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was my first year out there

and it was a great group to fall in with and I have

remained part of that friend group ever since.

Okay.

But

this like very fuzzy memory of like walking by I think it I think it was by Motel 666 like at night and there's these people that made like a giant bucket of like glow juice and then they were sticking model rockets in the glow and then shooting him off into the sky. And then, you know, you just see this glowing thing going up and then coming down like, "Yeah, watch out. It doesn't hit you." You know,

prior to the Earth Guardians.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, was was that Montel 666 or or

Not that I'm aware of.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. But I mean, as I recall back in the late 90s, early as We were in walk-in camping and it was a very active neighborhood. Um, I haven't spent much time out there in recent years.

Mhm.

It doesn't quite feel as theme campy as it did in the late 90s, early as it felt a little more community and now maybe a little more functional for folks who don't want to be close to the action.

Um, But yeah, I haven't spent much time out there.

Yeah, for the the listeners at home, the walk-in camping is like way way in the back.

Like the esplanade in the front is, you know, I guess the highest traffic kind of uh areas, right? And so in the back, the walk-in camping is Yeah. It's for people to be quieter. Yeah.

Circles.

Yeah.

But also back then in 97 was probably what it went up to like D

maybe. And it was not circular as you'll remember. Walapai was

yeah

an ang angled you know maybe the um the last section of those outer streets were angled at like 45 degrees

something like that.

Yeah.

Very set up from what we know of today.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean so nowadays the streets go to what was like J or something? I mean it's it's like almost a I think from the esplanade like all the way to the the back now or

it's crazy. There are so many streets. I think it actually goes to K now.

K. Wow.

That's incredible.

Yeah, it's back there.

So, does Motel 6X66 like how long did they p persist on the PL? Are they still around these days or is it morphed?

Yeah, the group has u changed names. Uh it's now Versed. Um it continues to be an unregistered camp. Um, and I think it was close to 22 years ago when some of the guys in the camp um, spearheaded by Edgar Blazona said, "Let's have an art survey for folks and we'll put on lab jackets and we'll walk around and we'll survey people." Not a CS survey, but really for fun and the purposes of interacting and and doing a stick. Burning Man and they said, "Well, you know, if we're doing this, we need to have a centralized office on the open play." So, I say spearheaded by Edgar because he has constructed what are he refers to as his modular dwellings. Um, very mid-modern century uh very very nice lines. And they put together the office and they were depositing surveys. And then before We knew it. There was a DJ rig, a bar, and um that group has formalized the office. It's completely unregistered. Um I believe that there have there has been questioning by the art department in the past as to what they thought they were doing out on the open playa unregistered, which is very ironic given that it's over. Um and the office to the to the to this day is just a delightful mess of bureaucracy and paperwork and music. We've got

tickets like you can take tickets at the meat counter with a counter and the kids are lining up and there is a survey uh which is just ridiculous and fun and we do parking permits um K parking permits so you can park anywhere on the playa um and that's a great that continues to live on. So, yeah, a lot of paperwork at the office.

Yeah, I think it was out there. They had the office party or something and every like it was all like lines of people and they had the these forms and filling them out and yeah,

some people like took it so seriously. They're like, I have to fill out all of this. You know,

it's it's pretty cute. And a lot of young burners like in their 20s and they're like, okay, if this is what we have to do to get a drink, we're in. We'll do it. Like, give us the pencil, give us the clipboard. It's um it's very cute and it's just delightful to witness because it's so incredibly participatory and just a little bit of something for everyone. So,

and is that like a 247 like the people are out there doing stuff or just kind of like whenever they kind of get there and feel like it?

Thursday night is the night.

So, that's that's the big night. Um, so anybody's welcome to come find us out on the play Thursday night. Um, generally between 10:00 and the in the open playa area. And um there's a little arrow on top of the office. The office is orange. The arrow has it's a a vintage arrow sign with brightly colored light bulbs that flash in different patterns. Um it's so sweet and it has become a gathering point. And then Friday night, I think they're generally there and Saturday after the burn and then I think generally Sunday pack up and

yeah

it's funny because like when we were first talking about that it was like oh is that the birth of the census

because right because they they wear lab coats and go around and take surveys and stuff and I was like oh that sounds like that but that's entirely different right

totally those guys are for real

yeah

so

yeah because the census didn't come around till I think like many years later right

yeah the census I want to say that I met countest um Megan started the census in like 2003 maybe.

Uhhuh.

2002.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. And so have you how many years have you been going? Have you been been going like continually since 97 or

more or less? I have been. I went to nursing school um in April of 2007. It was an accelerated program and Um, I did not go to Burning Man that summer, August 2007.

I was working at UCSF. It seemed a little bit crazy to try and get up to the Black Rock Desert for a three-day weekend and come right back and fall into work.

Yeah.

Um, so that year I missed I did not go out for 2021 for the Renegade Burn.

Oh, yeah.

I think it was 2021.

Yeah. And that was I think it's my biggest Burning Man regret

really.

I I was sure that somebody was going to die. Said this is there's no way that this group of people are going to be able to manage themselves. You know, people don't know what they're doing. They're driving cars. Uh it's nighttime. There's there are no rules. There's nobody telling you what to do or not to do.

You feel like you might have missed out on that death or what?

I I just missed out on such an amazing experience. I mean, have you talked to anybody that went to Renegade that

Oh, yeah.

It was amazing.

Yeah. What about the like Fourth of Julia? Have you ever gone out there and done that?

A lot of Fourth of July trips. Um, we also have a group of friends that went up several years in a row for what they called New Moon. And we would go when there was no moon so that you could really

enjoy the Milky Way

and I guess I would imagine most people listening to the podcast have been to the event, but if you haven't, the Black Rock Desert is a gorgeous geologic feature. It's a dry lake bed, tremendously large, ringed by mountains, more or less, and very little to no light pollution.

Yeah.

And camping out there is stellar, whether it's a full moon or not a full moon. But we had several trips, many years birth called New Mooney

where we go out there and then there were scouting trips for New Mooney where we would investigate adjacent players in the valley.

Oh wow.

Yeah. I saw some people who took some interesting pictures. I think was it last summer like for the with builds like when they're hanging out there like early and um with um what do you call it the the the northern lights because I guess the northern lights like came down like that far.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. The northern lights this year were amazing. They went on um in we were seeing a lot of them in the US western states and I'm sure in the east.

I was at Bonnie Reese's house. She's a longtime burner and artist. Um she has a beautiful art car called the um

the sky rabbit's house and I went down to her place in October in the desert. And that was in Joshua Tree and then we for seeing the northern lights in California at night. That was by phone only. Andy Grace said, "You need to use your telephone and you can actually capture."

Wow.

The northern lights. So, I can only imagine on the Playa how amazing that show was.

Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. So, how long are you on the Playa for? Like, are you there like uh early like build or

I am not I don't work for the event and generally am holding down a job with limited time off. So

yeah, I know that.

Yeah, basically there for the week of the event, but um you know, every opportunity ekking out a little more time. I love being up there pre-event.

It's just so so magical. Everybody is working hard, heads are down.

Um it's calm, peaceful. There's a different sense of community as everybody is there building together.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And you work in the media mecca or have you been?

I do. I've always been at Media Mecca.

So, how long you have you been with Media Mecca?

Forever. Um,

since the beginning.

Uh, I I ended up doing a tour of Black Rock City in the backseat of a Washau County Sheriff's vehicle with Candace Lair aka evil Pippy and we were out with them for probably an hour and a half and mind you this is only my second year on the ply. It was towards the end of the event and that was

this is voluntarily

voluntarily. Yes.

Not in handcuffs.

No handcuffs. No handcuffs were involved. And it was delightful and fantastic. And I had already for me connected the dots and the significance of Burning Man. Like this is a community. It has so much to offer. This is isn't just a party in the desert and this is the social importance of what's happening here and that you know we cruised from you know the 9:00 side to the 3:00 side open playa and talked about what we were seeing and explaining to these sheriffs like this is this is what's going on and we went out of the car and I turned to Candace and I said I don't know what we just did but I want to do more and she said well we have a team meeting in November back in the city. So, come to the meeting and that was how I got involved with Media Mecca.

Well, how did the that how did you wind up in the back seat of the with the the sheriff? I mean, like how did that come about?

I was hanging out with Candace and she is the person responsible for starting Media Mecca with Marian.

Uhhuh.

I believe in 96.

Yeah. Yeah. So, they just decided like, oh, let's take the sheriff out for a ride and show him around.

Yeah. Actually was not uncommon in those days where Marian being basically responsible for a lot of communication um was interacting with BLM officers. I became familiar with a few officers over the years

and um yeah, you just it was just part of the job really

and like here's an opportunity to go somebody go show somebody who is uninitiated

and help them understand what it is that are seeing because sometimes to the unaded eye um you know it's easy to draw assumptions

and

so that's pretty much the the the mission of media mecca or like how would you describe it?

Yeah, it it really is the mission of media mecca. I will say that that process for um let's say um public offices and other officials that has its own spin-off team. XRT

and we work with the press. I will note that in the last year we've had a significant bump up in documentaries. Um 20

yeah 20 years ago when we were doing this it was a lot of press who were coming uninitiated and that was our main job was to connect with them and we did that months in advance of arriving on Playa and help hoping to level set so when they showed up on the playa they could plug in to the community rather than take it as they would any other story.

Yeah. Because wasn't there some story with like MTV showing up and they What was the story with MTV?

So to the best of my recollection MTV registered with us. We turned them down. Um just of note for everybody it's a private event even though it's held on public lands and Burning Man is protective of imagery that is captured at the event and is able to do so because it is a private event. And so that's part of that's the other part of what we do at Media Mecca is helping to not necessarily control the story, but um there are plenty of things that happen at Burning Man that make it what it is. And that's an amazing community and that's really where we want to see the story.

And um

I lost

I lost where I was.

What was that?

I lost where I was.

Oh, sorry. Well, um well, another question I had was um I mean is Media Mecca mainly interfacing with like media organizations or is it also kind of like a culturating like like participants in terms of like you know like photography and and to video uh people because I remember years ago you used to have like a you go get like a tag for like your video camera or something.

Yeah. So there was I believe there was a time when we did video tags for personal and that was handled through play info but of course today with everybody on a cell phone and the ability to capture imagery that's really run away

and I think right now the communications department is at an inflection point. How do we engage with influencers and what have you

and how do you work with that population? And there are rules around how images are captured and used. Like if you're going to broadcast a photo as an advertisement and it's capturing specific elements in that imagery, for instance, the man figure

uh

Burning Man has set the legal precedence that we protect that and and a letter will be sent when there's inappropriate usage.

But as far as like your everyday participant, Media Mecca does not handle that.

Yeah.

So like for commercial use, you guys would come in, but personal use.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Now if people think that they might do something, we have I believe the way we do it is we have a personal use so that we can capture their information and they will be to us like we have no idea if this is what we want to do.

I think if I'm remembering this correctly, as the years have gone by, I've moved further and further from the process.

Ah, okay.

So, uh, what what's the story with all of these documentaries? You say like the past couple of years has been a couple of different groups or

I think part of it is the event is at such a size and people are having varied experiences that they want to tell their story of the So it's documenting the building of the camp or you know the artists um and there are a million nuanced stories um within that subset and again this is something where I have just I have self- selected and kind of moved away from um in terms of being really onetoone close with what's happening.

Mhm. um with the stories. It's for me the thing that really had my heart in working with media mecha was working with press who hadn't been to the event and just helping them to acculturate

and back you know 20 25 years ago we served as a place where folks could come back and say I saw this thing what is going on um or I'm completely overwhelmed by this environment these help me get grounded in all of the chaos that is brewing man.

Yeah.

And that's that's the piece for me. So I I have to admit when I hear documentary I I kind of turn off.

It's also kind of like a Burning Man. I have a a podcast about Burning Man like about Burning Man. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a lot of I mean there's a lot of great stuff going on out there. Yeah,

I don't mean in any way to diss any work that folks are doing.

Well, I was another question I had was um just like the nature of the media Becker's work like over the years that like you said like in the beginning a lot of these media outlets like wouldn't really understand what Burning Man was about, but then they get kind of acculturated and they like you mean coming back a I mean I don't know if you have the same outlets coming back like year after year after year or it's like after so many decades like I mean, do you still see like the same outlets or are you just kind of like, oh, they don't really need the help anymore or is it more like foreign outlets or different?

Well, we've seen some people come back. I think the real um initiative for us is as burners to help folks understand it's their experience. So really shedding and this has been true from the beginning, right? Shedding what you have of the outside world

so that you can actually be here now on the playa and be a piece of the community.

Ron John infamously one year had put on their laminated tags, this is your media pass. It entitles you to absolutely nothing. No spitting. Thank you. You know, um but really helping people to understand they're going to get so much more of it if they can actually start interacting people. Um, let it not be transactional,

which is something Larry talked about. We're really um, this is not, we don't work in transactional relationships on the play.

Yeah. Yeah. No barter.

No barter.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, really helping folks to seek out those stories. I think that's where a lot of our energy is going.

So, yeah.

And there's the fact that the organization has grown and what we did 20 years ago, you know, as and everything else that is having to do with Burning Man over the years and the growth, we evolve and and processes change and

Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes it's hard to shed that.

That's true.

Okay. This is not 25 years ago. So, stop thinking about what it was 25 years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like it's an evolution. It's a progression, you know? I mean, it's not uh the early days of I mean when people are driving around all over the place and running over people in tents and

so true.

Yeah. All right. So, um All right. Uh well, let's see. Okay. How about uh let's let's get to your background. So, it's like what's uh what's your story? So, where does uh little baby nurse uh grow up and like what was your life?

Baby nurse grew up in Oakland, California.

Oh. And I moved back here after college. And it wasn't soon after that I moved back here that I was introduced to Burning Man. And for a long time, I believed that it was my destiny that I was born in the Bay Area and was to come back because I've always been a little outside of the normal.

And finally connecting with the Burning Man community, I said, I found my people. Um, so I've always been a little bit of the maybe the wing nut in the group. Uh, not really wanting to conform to the standard. Um, which sometimes for me and we can talk about any given environment uh, I may find constricting andor objectional or lacking uh, creativity.

So I think that's that's a lot of who I am and and And I I think that I struggled for a long time as a young person and an adult to find myself.

So you said you were involved with the was it the cyber bus ball like cuz I remember like is that kind of cacophony related or kind of cuz I mean cuz I I lived in the Bay Area with like 94 to 2001 or so because I remember like going to some of these things because that's what he said cyber bus ball. I was like wow that sounds so familiar. So, the Cyberbus kids were coming out to Burning Man, definitely early times, 1995.

Um, Cyberbus Sam was one of the characters. They had a short school bus, possibly painted silver.

I feel like uh Cyberbus I feel there is some association with a lot of silver.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he had actually somehow brought out internet to the play in 96 or 97. on the cyber bus. Um, somebody out there can speak to the technology.

Yeah.

Um, so I think that they were cacophony society adjacent. I think back in that time period we had a lot of crossover. The men diagram

the two circles were very very much in lot of overlap.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like survival research laboratories too or the seammen that like Yeah. I don't know if you remember like there was a survival research laboratory thing. It was like underneath the highway in San Francisco and they had this big tower. It looked like a water tower and had this big like tank and had this like liquid and it was like there's hundreds and hundreds of people all around and it had some robot and a claw and it and and it collapsed and this liquid came out and I don't know what it was. I think it was some combin of like like rancid sardine oil and like white diamonds and like it was just like this chemical attack. I mean like immediately like all these hundreds of people just started immediately like just like just backing up and going. It was almost like a stampede of people like Yeah.

It sounds very typical of the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Then there were like scavenger hunts.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Popcorn anti-theater. I don't know if you remember that. That was a great group of folks that had performances and they rented a bus and the bus would take us around to different sites where people did performances or interactive pieces.

Do they still are there stuff like still like still happening like in the Bay Area or

I think so, but I feel like some of the newer groups I don't know. Cacopony is out there. They're doing things. Um there are a couple of groups that are are doing um pretty significant pieces for groups. There are at least two groups that I know of that do um very intensive work for a one night event.

Uh there was a group who did one this year on the solstice and a group who did a similar event on the solstice last year where you brought your bike and you showed up at a way point and they gave you a map and then you were set loose in the city to seek out these installations and happenings and art pieces.

Um, and that's I yes of course it is still happening. I don't know what I'm Yes, it is still happening.

It's on a different level. I mean there was it's I think with technology and our evolution in this day and age things are so much different. Yeah.

But yes, those things are still happening.

Like the uh the salmon in the Beta Breakers.

Oh, absolutely.

That still happens.

That still happens.

But for the folks listening at home, Beta Breakers is uh a race from where does it start? It's like the Marado or something.

Yeah, it starts close to the ferry building.

Yeah.

Maybe a couple blocks south of there. Or maybe it's on Market

and then it goes out to like uh like Ocean Beach or something.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, that's the race. And so, I guess what uh was it Cacophony or who who originally did that? Like

I feel like it's cacophony who originally did that, but that might be my

Yeah. So, for the listeners at home, they these people dressed up as fish or salmon and went the the opposite way.

I mean, even going to that race, there are there people are having parties along the way, but they feel like it doesn't feel like a Super Bowl party or a you know it's like an interactive like we are the people and we're interacting with the people and we're meeting strangers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean I remember cuz I I would when I lived in San Francisco I always would tend to like miss these things and I would be like at a bar or something and then people would show up and like all these costumes. I'm like what's going on here? Like ah beta breaker. It's like oh I missed it again you know and I remember like There's these guys and they were like they're all wearing these like uh like pink like slips and they're like where are the pink slips and and they were all like sunbirds so they all were pink like completely love it.

Yeah. But then they would like they told me that they had like a shopping cart and they had like a keg in it and then they were like I mean most people think like oh it's a race. It's like well nominally It's a race if you know you're passing out beers here like compatriots.

Yeah.

Yeah. But uh Bernie man still has like their um what do we call it the oh I'm forgetting like after the burn

decompression party.

Decompression. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um decompression is great but again I have not been in years.

I was very close to going this year and maybe was I think I was out of town. Um

well, where do they have it nowadays and where how big is it?

I feel like it's pretty big. I don't For a long time it was on the um eastern side of Petro Hill in that area called Dog Patch.

I don't I feel like it's moved from there, but I'm not sure where it's happening.

Yeah. Go back there for one of these days for that. Yeah. All right. All right. Well, um I guess this gets us to our next part of the show is uh the impact of Burning Man on you. So, you've been doing this what almost 30 years now. I mean, next year will be

it's been it's been 25. Um

it's hard for me to say how it's impacted my life because it's I feel like it's been here like my prefrontal cortex came into complete formation when I was 23 or 25 and then you know, I was at Burning Man. Um, I think, you know, the piece around interactions not being transactional.

Um, people will ask, "Oh, you're going after all these years still, like what? Why?

It's the people." Um, and I think that that's I grew up in a family that was not necessarily about people

and Yeah, I mean very um very business-like in my family, not a lot of affection. Uh not a lot of interpersonal connection. And I think that that really um in a way has really saved me and helped direct who I am today, you know. And people will say to me like you tell us that about your family, but you seem very affectionate and loving. I said,

well, what happened?

I was missing that. Yeah, I went to Bernie man. Um, so I think, you know, it's made me more aware of the world in a much more humanistic way really.

Um, and then the intertwining of creativity, it's really it's I I'm starting to understand now at 53 like being creative is kind of essential to being a human and being grounded. And I've always had some art in my life.

And um really like this living uh you will go to burner events or burner's homes uh back in the quote unquote default world and you see a lot of living through creativity in a very different way to approaching life and I think that that's you know an added perspective I wouldn't otherwise have.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean It's interesting creativity. I mean, when you think about it, it's like that's essentially what life is all about, right? I mean, it's like where you're you're, you know, you mean your mom and dad create you and then here you are, you know, and it's like what do you do with your life, you know? It's I mean, to me, like the meaning of life is I'm always just like, well, it's to do something.

Yeah.

You know, it's like what is that something? I was just like, I don't know. Like, you're the one to figure that out, you know? But, uh, creativity. Yeah. I mean, and I guess that's The the beauty about Burning Man, it's it's like you got a safe space for you to radically express yourself and

because I know for me personally it's like I I in my life people just tell me it's like you know like oh I want to do this and there's like no like you can't do that or like oh that's not a good idea like why would you want to do that? It's always like you know but yeah I mean I'm just I love that the the aspect of the play where like people people are like are encouraging to each other and you know it's just like not only it's like are you free to do it but people will cheer you on?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. So what about you like do you any art that you've created on the play or

ironically I have never created a piece of art on the playa. I've never brought a piece of art. I thought about it. It might still happen. Um,

well, art could be many things, right? I mean, it's not just like an installation or

Absolutely. Yeah. For me, I love connecting people. Um, this year, one of my informal missions for myself was spreading the word about the family reunion for u black burners. There is a beautiful project by Aaron Douglas. So, she does a family portrait of black people on the play.

Oh, really?

And um I believe she's kept the date, time, day kind of on the down low and it's been a word of mouth piece.

Uhhuh.

Um I think really to avoid it turning into a look situation

and it's there for black people to celebrate themselves in an environment

that is safe to do so.

Um so for me that was every black person I came across on the playa this year. I told them about the family portrait and um I didn't have all the details and I said you can go find Aaron Douglas or somebody who knows her in her camp. This is where the camp is. This is very Playa

circa

2000.

Um I I met a very interesting funny PA physician's assistant um from somewhere north of Seattle. and uh I had met him in the commissary volunteering and I said I'm not exactly sure but you can come to Media Mecca and I can get you some more details. So I came to Media Mecca and I really didn't have more details. Well he found them and uh it was by coincidence that he found them and then he came back to me and he said I found them.

Ah

and he had a profound experience. and he came across them as they were doing a healing ceremony. So for me talking about those things

with people and letting people know like these are some of the things that are happening at Burning Man today.

For those of you who don't know, there aren't a lot of black people at Burning Man.

Yeah.

And um that's really meaningful.

So any opportunity I have to connect a person to a thing or another person I seize upon that and I like to be able to host people and bring people in. They need a break from the heat. You know, you just never know what you're going to run across in the playth.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, it seems like media mecca is a natural fit for you, you know. I mean, it's just connecting people.

I think it is.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it is. I really enjoy it.

Well, I mean, it's its own particular form of art. I mean,

yeah.

I mean, I think art is kind of like an expansive term. doesn't have to mean just like, oh, like I'm a DJ or like, you know, I I'm a an installation art creator or I I bake cookies, you know? I mean,

I don't know. I remember back in the day, people would just have like a megaphone and just like

they thought that

I I appreciate that perspective. Absolutely.

Yeah. No, definitely a a you know, if you know how to use it um with your words Megaphone is very powerful and entertaining on the

playa and there are so many permeations of what is art on the

playa.

It's funny because like I like I I had like a 13-year gap like last year was like 2011 and this year was like the first year I came back but people always ask me like oh what's different but like now I'm thinking about it I'm like yeah I don't recall anybody with a megaphone like I'm not sure if that was like a a thing in the past And now people are like, "Ah, that's just annoying,

right?" Um, that's a good question. The last really artful megapony that I knew of on the Playa was the boardroom. This was fantastic. This was a group from Canada and they had a motorized boardroom.

Uhhuh.

And they dressed in suits and somebody had a megaphone. I think I'm getting this right. Um, and they had people that were really gifted with the megaphone cuz any body can have a megaphone.

Yeah, I remember quite a few jackasses, you know, needed to have them taken away.

Yeah, but you can have a lot of fun as the board at Burning Man in the boardroom doing business cruising the playa.

Um,

yeah,

with a properly handled megaphone.

That's funny because that sounds so familiar. I remember these guys in these suits, but

yeah, I don't know. All these things like blend together like all these years Yeah. Yeah. At least they weren't the aesthetic beat foundation. Those guys are entirely different.

That was something that I experienced my first year there that really left an impression on me. And I remember the gentleman I I don't know if he was at the aesthetic meet camp or separate from them, but riding around in the back of a pickup truck suspended from his own back, hooks in his back. And

you know, that was part of like, wow, this is all happening here. And this is far out. Like I've never seen anything like that. My eyes were huge. And that was my first experience going to Cyber Bus. I rounded the corner and here was something I'd never seen before. There were Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. Never seen those.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

You know, everybody costumed to the nines and I just saying, "Oh, wow. I've landed." And that to me was kind of a natural extension from burning man.

Mhm. Do you still feel like that sense of awe when you go out there all these years later? I mean, do you still come across things you're just like, "Wow, look at that."

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um there are the unexpected things that you see out on the Playa. Um there are the things that I've never participated in, but you go, "Oh, wow. The Beiju Theater that was out at the at the

Oh, yeah.

fence showing a midnight movie with popcorn. What? in the business is that about

Yeah.

Um last year um out on an arch tour were in the morning. This would have been 2023

coming across an installation. Here's the huge fire extinguisher art car and something else. And then folks over here at the chai stand and then somebody here with an oven, a working oven.

Oven.

A vintage working oven making baked goods.

Wow. I mean, I just the level of dedication.

I hit a dust storm that year. Just before the dust storm, there was a guy out there with this pizza oven.

I I don't know how in the business that happened. And they said, "Do you want a slice of pizza?" And it was a thin margarita, basil, delicious mozzarella.

Wow.

Please, I will take that. Thank you. Uh, you know, it's just h how is this even possible? That generosity of spirit I think is the thing that still blows me away.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, whether that's a piece of artwork or somebody's action like that where they're serving you a slice of pizza

and how is this happening?

Yeah. But like in my uh episode with Chef Juke, like we were talking about this and um because he's because his he has a sort of like this three uh pillars kind of thing. It's like awe, inspiration, and community. Like that's kind of what what's meaningful to him. And and yeah, we were talking about awe and cuz I remember you was explaining about like uh like a sense of like a child or somebody like seeing something for the first time and and then I also was like cuz just to kind of connect with like what you're kind of saying now too was like even for someone who's been like you know many many years or even people like Jaded who's like oh yeah I've seen the things that'll put you know hair on your chest whatever you know it's like you still come across something, you know, even for like the most jaded of people.

Yeah.

You know,

seeing new people come with those new eyes, there's nothing more fun

than I think than you know, introducing somebody who's never been. I got to do that this year and it was really

Do you also like work or does media also help with like the tours like the art tours and who do they do that for?

So, we were doing the art tours that changed a bit this year and maybe we're going to do more art tours in the future. I don't know. But we had been doing art tours basically for media outlets.

So taking them out and there would be a sunrise tour and um an evening tour. Katherine Eldridge was doing it for years. Amazing volunteer on the media team. She's been with us for years. She's out of Salt Lake

in Deer Valley. Um

and then again the XRT does all of the official and I know they include some art. So they'll have BLM officers and

all sorts of law enforcement representatives, who knows what.

So XRT, what does XRT stand for anyway?

I want to say external relations team.

Uh is that like government kind of stuff or pretty much? Yeah.

Do they get like a lot of customers? Like who do I mean who all shows up? I mean

Well, this is Interesting. I learned only recently that Burning Man deals with something like 50 or 60 or maybe even 80 different agencies.

Wow.

Just to put the event on.

So, and I think that that includes like health, food, safety.

Okay.

I think there's probably OSHA is involved there with heavy equipment and everything that DPW does.

Um I wouldn't be surprised if there's another agency see around the building of the man and stability, fire, emergency services, the Bureau of Land Management, Washow County, Persing County. There are probably other agencies as they pull in folks from different counties.

I I'm not entirely sure, but it's uh

it's not a small

Yeah, it's a pretty significant undertaking.

Yeah. I mean, I take it that it's grown over the years. I mean, sure, we're supposed like oh BLM and like, you know, or Persian or whatever county, you know, but

yeah.

Yeah. Even

Oh, yeah. Go ahead, please.

Oh, no. No, you go.

I was going to say I think also probably with the bureaucracy of government, there are sub agencies and that is accounted for in that whole, you know,

it's not like there are five people from the BLM that come,

you know, there's probably sections from the environmental versus law enforcement, that sort of thing. And Those probably count as separate agencies because they require time and attention from the war.

And any other interesting guests? Cuz I remember Yams was telling me about uh it was like it was like oh yeah it's like there's there's been like princes and princesses and like you know it's like people or celebrities I'm sure you know but uh

I feel a lot of that who knows who comes.

Um there was a great story of a friend of a friend working the gate and um Katie Perry's Parah Amore at that time was at the gate.

Um I think his last name was Bloom

anyway.

Oh, Orlando Bloom.

Orlando Bloom. And he was saying like I I somebody has a ticket here for me and the gate is infamously strict

and they have the opportunity to really give wet for another um expression of art, if you will.

Yeah.

And this friend mine did not believe that this was Orlando Bloom. And then Katy Perry rolls up on a segue and it's like, I have the ticket for Orlando Bloom. Like she had rode in from the city, you know. Um, and then there are all the old folks that I think most people know have been around.

Um, but we don't necessarily see that at Media Mecca.

Ah, okay. So, you're not tasked with like the Sultan of Brunai or something. It's like, oh, these are a private tour. Not not uh not at Media Mecca. Definitely XRT. XRT will be doing that.

Ah, that's where the parties at.

Yeah, but I think they're mostly government folks that come

that have been involved in the whole process and want to know what's going on out there.

Oh wow. No, that is interesting because I didn't I I never would have thought of like what up to like 80 different departments, you know,

that's what I'm I'm I'm third-handing this, but it was somewhere they said between 50 and 80 different agencies.

Wow. Wow.

Even the whole OSHA thing. I remember I was talking to Coyote like, "Oh, yeah. It's you know, a lot of OSHA requirements." And

I remember it was always like with me and my campmates where we had a joke like, "Oh, we're going to do Pia OSHA and we're going to go around and put like a big orange sticker on DPW's windshields be like violation, you know?" And they're like, "Yeah, it has kind of ended there at the the conceptual stage because with the DPW person be like that's your death warrant you're signing if you do that you know

absolutely do not mess with the DPW

yeah but it's funny now there actually is

right like wow

yeah

all right well um any final words or anything else you uh have in your mind No, this has just been really delightful. I love reflecting on the event. It's

Yeah.

It's a really special place, special time.

Yeah. Well, I mean, kind of the whole function of my show, the whole this shadow of the man. Yeah. It's kind of explored, you know, just Yeah. Like what what is it like what is it with these people? Like what

why why are you doing this out there? All these I mean, even like, you know, people who've never been before, you know, just like Oh yeah. You know, it's it's just like that bucket list like you know that rave out in the desert, you know, and it's like you get your like your RV or like you know, your concierge camp or whatever. It's just like No, no, it's it's

it's a lot more.

Yeah.

You know, and I

Oh, I was going to say I did bring my parents in 2015.

Oh, yeah.

And that was fantastic because I worked for the event back in the early years 99 through 2005 kind of in and out um alongside Andy Grace. And uh my parents knew I worked for them and I always figured it was just a party in the desert. And even though I was in Media Mecca, I never really talked to them about what the event was. And I think I did between that time and when they came out in 2015, but when they came out in 2015, their minds were blown

and uh they're not exactly hippies. In fact, they're not hippies at all. Uh so, you know, it just to me really speaks to I don't want to say the power of the event but the spirit of the event and and all that the event is that you can have folks you know at that time in their 70s mid70s

wow

come out and say oh wow we didn't really understand

I mean how did your family dynamic or relationship change at if at all like after that where they just kind of like all of a sudden like now we're hippies now we're going to be like you know hugging and Yeah, there was none of that. There was no huge transformational period. It was actually pretty funny. My sister had come out two years. Um, and I had basically gotten her a ticket, had all the food, a place for her to live, yada yada yada.

And they that year in 2015 were we were maybe 200 yards apart. And I said to her, Aaron, this is your project this year. And we did not see that much of each other. together. Um, we did have a night when we had all gone out to see some art and we said, "Okay, we're going to break off and go do something else." And my parents said, "Okay, we're going to go back to camp." And we went and did our thing. And then somebody in our group said, "Hey, let's go back to camp and make grilled cheese." I said, "That sounds great. Let's go get grilled cheese."

Uhhuh.

So, we go back and it's about 9:30. So, I walked over to camp to see if they were back

and they weren't. So, then I got kind of concerned and my sister was there with her boyfriend and finally at like 10:15 they rolled in and they had gotten lost and uh it was just a very amusing moment of the family dynamic did not change in that experience at all. My mother said we were down in some back alley near center camp by media mecca and your father would not stop for directions and just you know like okay here we are. But we're a Burning Man.

Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, I'd

love to take my mom there one of these days, but uh I don't know. We'll see.

It's hard. It's hard.

Yeah. I don't know. My mom is very She's very vocal. I mean, she's kind of like a stream of consciousness type of person, you know? She'll just like like arm outstretched pointing. It's like, "Look, look over there. Those two women are kissing. They're lesbians, you know." It's like, "Yes, mom. That's what they're called." You know, like, and they're they love each other and they're having fun. Okay. It's like like, "But luck. But luck." Like, "Yes, yes, yes, I can see. I can see.

She does not sound dissimilar to my mother."

Yeah. Yeah. Well, my mother is very matter of fact, like um

my brother who's my co-conspirator and all my Burning Man stuff. Like, uh, we first went together in his GT books back in GTI 96. And, uh, he's a he's still lives in San Francisco and he's a carpenter. He just had like an an accident. Um, all I'll say is two words and and everyone can fill in the rest. Just fingers and table saw. So, I need to know. So, my mom calls me up and it's like because my mother grew up in South Africa and so she has kind of like an accent, you know, and so she's she's like it's like your brother's on the way to the the hospital. And I was like, "Oh, what happened?" You know, I was like, "Oh, is he okay?" He's like, "Well, he cut three fingers clean off, you know." And I was like, "Oh, oh my oh my god." Yes. Blood everywhere. It was quite the scene, you know. I'm like, "Okay." And then like, as it turns out, it was like uh the tips of the fingers and like they're all still attached, you know? I'm like, "Oh, it's Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Bob." But no, I think I'll have to bring her to Burning Man. That would actually would be almost like its own art piece, I think.

Well, please let me know. I love to be an ambassador to parents. Oh, whether I'm at Burning Man or the Default World.

All right. Um, let's see. So, any final words? Uh, if anybody wants to reach you or do you want to give them a way to

Sure. nurse at burningman.org.

Okay. And any any plugs or anything you want to plug or people's projects or anything or

I will say that we have a really cool spot as a community. It's not really our community spot, but Chicken John has a place out in the Delta. It's about an hour from Oakland

um called the Stars and Moon Park

and it's on the Sacramento River Delta. Um beautiful waterways and wildlife. Um, there are docks and an RV park and a communal kitchen and a stage and that is a space that he has been working very hard on. For those who don't know Chicken John, he is a character that's been on the scene here for 30 or 35 years

and um, a force of nature and it's a delightful spot for gathering community.

Huh. So, if people were interested in doing, you know, it's a property that can be bought out for a weekend. It's a place where you can come up for a weekend. Um, really delightful camping. There are some boats for rent, some RVs for rent, staying on a boat in the Delta.

Um, it's very special.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, that'll be my plug.

Okay. Awesome.

Yeah.

Well, thank you very much. This has been a wonderful special interview.

Thank you. It's been a delight.

Hey, thanks.

All right.

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