EP 20 Meghan Rutigliano

Meet Megs (aka Meghan Rutigliano), a longtime Burning Man staff member who discusses the profound personal and professional transformation sparked by the event. The conversation moves from her initial "mind-exploding" visit in 2005 to her thirteen-year career within the organization, where she eventually helped manage its global regional network. Throughout the interview, Rutigliano highlights the acculturation of "burners" through shared rituals, such as adopting "playa names" and participating in a gifting economy rather than traditional commerce. Now living in Detroit, she reflects on how the festival’s ethos of creative problem-solving and radical self-expression continues to fuel her current work in nonprofit acceleration. Overall, the source serves as a deep dive into the enduring impact of the Burning Man culture on individual identity and community leadership. She now works with a nonprofit called Advancing Macomb, a nonprofit accelerator. Please enjoy Episode 20 with Megs.

https://advancingmacomb.com/

Transcript

They make the trick out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact of Burning Man up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man. 

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Oh, that's right. That Andy, today our guest is the one and only Megan. Is it Rutiliano?

Yeah. Megan Retiganiano.

Rutigliano. Well, welcome to the shadow of the man.

I think a lot of people in the burner community also know me as Megs.

Just Megs. Yeah. Okay. Have you ever had a player name or just just Megs?

My first year on the Playa, my friend named me Yaba Daba Doobie. for pretty

for no apparent reason. Yeah.

Yeah.

And we saw this guy like going around and like he had like a little um almost like a bingo with where all the balls are rolling.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's bingo. And uh he was giving out names but it didn't stick whatever it was. So the yaba daba also didn't

the balls like have like different things for like and so whatever ball would come out he would just give them those names or something.

Yes. It was like a like apply a name. generator.

Oh my god, that's funny.

I know. Like what what a cool guy.

So, what was your first year and what got you to go to Burning Man?

I uh my first year was 2005. And what ultimately got me to go to Playa was a pinky swear that I made with my friend uh who was my housemate at the time, Devin Breen. He now runs the Shida now in its 20th year.

What's that?

Uh the shyidat is so fun. It's a it's an event an annual event in Chicago and it is uh patterned after the New York City idiot rod and also the um theid iterod or some like some dog sled race in Alaska. That's OG.

The ID rod. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. The Id. Okay. Thank you. So instead of So that happens with dogs and a sled and a rider, but in the idiot rod and the shy rod versions, instead of a sled, it's a shopping cart.

Okay.

And instead of dogs, it's people.

And he launched it after we came back from Playa that year after his like mind exploded. But anyway, we made a pinky sw there. We got our tickets and then I was super excited, but probably like a lot of firsttime burners, the cost just kept escalating. Like you got to get the rental car and like the extra insurance maybe if you're going to go to Burning Man and then you know your flights and um think about all your food and I mean your outfits.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Oh no, sorry. I got some random call. coming in. Am I back?

They're here.

Okay, cool. Um, anyway, but what really started to break the bank for me was we did our research and we wanted to get illuminate and I remember being like, is this necessary, Deon?

What's that?

Illuminette is like this reflective material that if you put over a lot of people have it at Burning Man. It's reflective. It's made of metal. And I think that the army uses it and basically it reflects the sun so it keeps your tent and whatever's underneath it cool.

And then we also built a geodessic dome and bought like all the stuff for it. But anyway, I just remember I was like almost like, "Dude, this is too much." And then he's like, "Don't worry about it. I've got this." And we went and our minds exploded. And I made friends that I still have. Um folks that just kind of adopted us and we had the best time ever and the rest is history which I'm sure we'll talk about but

Oh yeah,

it changed the course of my life 100%.

Yeah. Well, that's what this show is all about. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah. Illuminat. That's kind of like those emergency blankets, right? Like kind of like those myar balloons kind of thing.

Totally.

Uh does that actually work?

It did. Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, tents are still hot as hell.

Yeah.

That reflective material saved us that for sure.

I've actually only ever been in a tent. I mean, I've been inside people's RVs here and there and I've been like, "Oo, this is nice."

Yeah.

But talk about expense.

Yeah. I got spoiled after I started working for Bernie man and they would give us like a staff trailer and then I went like after I after I stopped working for man and I was in one of those janky flash trailers and I was like

f um and I I don't know. It's really hard to go back to a tent, I think, after an RV, but whatever. I mean, for the people.

Yeah. So, for the listeners, uh, what's a flash RV?

So, Flash is a character. He's like OG Burning Man scene.

He's a bit of a Wheeler dealer and he rents out um trailers that, let's just say they're He's like a slum lord of the playa and he he said that himself so I don't think I'm throwing him under the trailer but also he has this like little laminate that he puts in everybody's trailer that is like and I'm doing like the flash voice now you have four walls you have your health and you are unicorn you know and that's it and it's like if you complain about something like during the event about your janky trailer he's like H, you know, he can't be bothered. So, I finally slept in one of those and I was like happy for the four walls, but it was so hot. I just did not think about it. But, oh,

woe is me. These are first world problems. But I would maybe I would stay in a tent. I don't know. Now, I've survived Electric Forest, which is an annual festival out here in Michigan,

which I get paid to be a roving character, which is totally my jam.

But, dude, it is so hot there. It's like in June because I think if they put it any later like

July or August. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like hard to even like stay I don't know. Not in like a sloth mode.

Do they have any water or anything there? Like a little pond or anything or is it just like a field or what?

You could like take a bus to the water but that always has seemed like a little too much for me because I usually I'm working and the shifts are not they're not minor. So I have like but just you know

what do you mean by roving character?

Um okay so there is an area at electric forest that is on the site of Rothbury or what used to be Rothbury Music Festival.

Um but the roving character part there's this area called the Dream Emporium. It's managed by Cir Berserk folks out of and the D lab people out of LA. And it's an immersive environment where people go in and then they go into like a dream world, which is kind of interesting cuz my first year at Burning Man, the theme was psyche.

So, it's kind of like that. It's like people are already probably having altered experiences, but this really asked them to like dive even further into that. So, the first year I got cast as a dream dealer. Um, Um, and so instead of dealing things that people might deal at a festival, I was dealing in dreams. So I had this like Matrix outfit, they put me in this like crazy like mohawk wig and then I was going up to people and I was like, I got good dreams, I got bad dreams, and I got wet dreams. Good dreams, bad dreams, wet dreams. And then I would like see what people were had an appetite for, and then I would like open up my um like metal briefcase. It was so funny. It was like definitely like a Matrix type of weird cyberpunk vibe. And then for the good dreams, I would have them close their eyes. And for the good dreams, I would have them like I don't I would talk them through these scenarios. Um having them picture like a wonderful moment and then I would give them like a piece of candy. For the bad dreams, I would bring them into like a dark place and then And when they open their eyes, I would be like feeding them those edible crickets, which are really not appetizing. And plus, they look like insects because they are. So people were like, "Ah, this is a bad dream."

That's awesome.

But then the funniest one, the third option was a wet dream.

And so I had a squirt gun, but people didn't know that. It was like in my briefcase hidden. And I would like put it on my lap like hidden. And then I would have them like picture their crush. And uh and then when they finally came to, I would squirt them with my squirt gun like all over the place.

It's kind of like, you know, when you go to a restaurant or something and somebody like, "Oh, I ordered a water." And then they give you a Sprite or something.

You drink it yourself.

Yes. Exactly.

The element of surprise.

Um but this year I'm excited because I didn't have to audition. I got grandfathered in. and I'm working for a group that is part of the Dream Emporium, but it's not cast by the Dream Emporium. And they're creating like a cardboard land, which is cool because we also have Bernie man people in Russia that have a nation that's called Cardia that I'm friends with. So, like it all makes sense in the psychedelic space.

What's that cardboard thing? I'm just envisioning like a if that was me and was like a cardboard lid. I would make like a whole bunch of like little buildings and be like, "Okay, now you get in the Godzilla outfit and you can like sto

Yeah, you can basically it's like the idea is like with cardboard you can do anything you want

and it's and like you can make yourself into like a knight or you can build your own, you know, castle or

snake pit and it's like basically having like a multi-million dollar at budget.

But I don't know. That's a cool idea.

Yeah, I'm bringing my little hippie friend Bella, who I just met. She's like a hippie girl from Ipsellante.

I feel like I'm adopting her. Like people adopted me in my young 20s. Like I'm like, "Hey, do you want to go to this crazy festival? You have to work with me and we're going to be cardboard zars." And um I don't really have more details than that, but definitely ask off for work. And that she was like, "I'm in." I'm like, "Okay. That's cute.

So, yeah. So, 2005 your first year. So, who did you camp with? I mean, was it just you and your friend or like open camping? Would you say like at a theme camp or like uh how did you like get involved?

We got involved through the Chicago scene. Um, a lot of folks that are listening to your show probably know Tom Leaport.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. He passed away, but he's um a living or a Oh, no, not a living legend. Sorry, Tom. He would laugh at my uh my outtake there. But he he is um well remembered as a great organizer of chaos, recruiter of wonderful people to come to the playa and he had me do some radio spots before Burning Man and they were for BMIR. So they were like play commercials. Um which is interesting because I was doing voice over at the time and I still do some of that work. But I got to be like the the portaotty fairy and something like that. Something like the if it doesn't go if it's not from your body, it doesn't belong in the potty. And I had like all these like funny little radio spots. So it was pretty trippy. Like as Devon and I are driving in to 2005 Burning Man on Gate Road, I heard myself on the radio. I'm like I'm here everybody. And a star was born. And yes, I let it all get to my head.

Wow. So, we went to the greeters. They're like, "Oh, are you a virgin your first time?" Like, "Listen to the radio, honey."

I mean, I think my voice precedes me. That was fun. I mean, the whole experience like, man, getting to Burning Man, it's like you really feel like you're just like on getting off at on the moon.

Yeah.

The the dust and the smell of the the air like that. and everything just feels different. It's such a sensory experience.

So, you're coming from Chicago at that point?

Yeah. Okay. So, then you landed at Reno, rented a car, did your shopping, and then

we went to we actually landed in San Francisco and we stayed with Devon's cute friend who was like sort of a um a preppy like kind of like a frat boy. And he was really fascinated that we were going to go on this adventure.

Well, he didn't go.

He didn't come. But Uh Devon and I I thought I was going to like run away with the circus, which I kind of did, but we took an extra week off after Playa to like

we just didn't know what was going to happen. So that first

Good idea.

Yeah, we didn't camp with the camp. The dues were expensive. It was like bop camp was coming from Chicago. Those guys seemed cool, but it was just like a lot to We just didn't really want to be tied down by shifts and that type of thing. And then

I feel like after a while maybe you do want that because you want a more structured experience, but we just wanted to go balls to the wall. So we we ended up just like I don't know like walking around and we ended up setting up camp like wherever. And then the next morning some folks next to us like heard Devon and I having like kind of like a couple spat although we were never a couple but It was like I wanted to go meet the neighborhood and like bring them cheese plates and he wanted to set up the geodessic dome and I kept misplacing my water but he of course had all of his s*** his stuff together and um he very much uh didn't like what I was doing and I didn't like his his rigidity but these folks next to us overheard us and they were like can we adopt you like oh yes and those women who adopted us are still some of my best friends. I just visited one of them in San Francisco last weekend. So, it's pretty amazing the people that stick with you, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know. We'll get around.

When was your first year?

My first year was 96.

Oh my god. Rock and roll, dude.

Yeah. But it was bizarre because I was like living in San Francisco and I had some friends who were kind of like in the community and you know, I we had done some of those like kind of cacophonyesque kind of things. like these these crazy like parties and these warehouses and

uh these like um like treasure hunt kind of things and whatever. And so I was like, "Oh, these are just my kind of artsy friends." And so my my one friend um was a black woman from England. She was like, "You and your brother Dan, you have to go. It's brilliant." And we were just like, "Oh, okay." And then we just got these like

It's going to be magical.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. We were like, "Okay." And we had never taken like a road trip together. I mean, I just moved there like a couple years before and uh uh I don't know if if you guys listen to episode two with my stories like you'll hear the full story like

but uh yeah. Yeah. So I mean we had no idea what to expect. Like I just was like it's you know we're coming from San Francisco. I mean like I said like it's it's a drive. I mean that's a long long drive and we had no idea what to expect and was like I think that the first time it really desert

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we stopped and we were like well we're going camping. We're like, it's like and we've been camping, right? And so it was like, well, we needed firewood, right? So, we got a bunch of firewood and we get there and it was my little my brother's my older brother's um like Volkswagen GTI. So, it's you know, it's like a hatchback with like two doors and we had like at the last minute like Sharon, that was her name. Yeah. Like she was like, "Oh, can you bring my boy?"

Yeah. Could you bring my boyfriend? And we're like, "Okay." And so he sat in the back and so he was literally covered. for water.

Yeah. So, we just he was covered with like these like with wood, you know, look at all of our stuff. And so, then we're going out to the desert and like we kind of get lost on the playa cuz you like they they go to the gate road and they're like, "Okay, set your compass for this degrees and go." Like,

this thing that just like

Yeah. And we were like,

I can't compass.

Yeah. We're like, oh yeah, compass.

No,

we didn't bring a compass.

Yeah. So, we just and then there was this big plume of of dust and then we're like well let's just go like on the outside of the plume of dust and so everybody was like and so we quickly just kind of got lost and then you go beyond a certain point and the heat mirage is just like 365 degrees so we're like you can see the mountains you know and so

oh my god the mountains are so gorgeous

yeah but I remember like going up there and I was just like well what is this again we're like well it's in the desert like yeah it's like it's kind of like it's arts thing but then It was like our friend who was like who's a DJ like so it's like okay it's kind of like a rave but kind of arts scene then we're like how

things are not totally off limits but they're not exactly cool.

So in my mind I was thinking it's like you know it's like those old people that travel the country in like an RV like it's like that it's like that but combined with like like bikers you know just kind of like old people and bikers and I I was just like what what am I going to and then we get there and I think we got there like Saturday and then we came back Monday and that was like the whole Pepe Ozan is like lingum thing and

Oh yeah

and we had no idea and so our friend was like you know oh go out to the rave camp and you can get some drugs you know we're like it's three miles that way and we're like okay bring like a little dinky like water bottle you know

oh that was the thing that I totally did not understand before my first Burning Man was like the barter system or wait Sorry.

Well, it was barter back then. Yeah.

Okay. So, I when I went it was like gifting, but I thought that it was a barter system. So, I was like, I'll bring some Chardonnay and maybe someone will give me some tabs like for this wine. But like, no. It's like the whole idea once I once I like kind of clicked for me was like everybody should just bring more than what they need with the idea that they're just going to share. And I like that. I like in life.

Like gifting economy by that.

Yeah. I mean, early on, I remember there was a guy who it was almost like a garage sale. He had this like blanket set up and he had all these different things and we're like,

"Get your chair."

Yeah. Well, it was just like random stuff. It was literally like a garage sale. And we're like, like, "What do you what is this?" And he's like, "Oh, I'm bartering." He's like, "What do you got?" And we were like, "What?" This is not a swap meat. You know, like what do you think? You know, I've also heard that Um Stuart Mangram, you know, he had uh arguably the first theme camp or or one of the

I love that.

Yeah. So

I heard the egg chair Steve had the first wasn't it like Christmas camp or

That's what I heard Christmas camp was the first Okay. Who Okay. Who do you know from Christmas camp? Like who was that you said with the egg chair

egg chair Steve a part of it?

Egg chair Steve. Cuz I've heard different things. Let me write this down. Egg chair Steve. because I've heard different people say different things about Christmas camp

and different people

I think that I've heard that that was the first theme themed camp

I love the whole urban legends of black rock

I think it wasn't like official official I think they just kind of came and they were just like it's Christmas you know like but then I think

I'm sure they didn't register it

well yeah yeah but then I think Stuart started like I guess I don't know if we call it the first official like theme camp or what But or maybe he like did it repeatedly after that or something. But his was like it was like a like a bar. It was like a tiki bar or something.

Okay. Okay.

And then but I think at first he was like it was like a barter kind of thing.

If they serve tiki drinks I'm in.

Yeah. And uh George Pap for a number of years he had the whole tiki bar thing too.

Oh my god. I love I love that you just said that because he popped up on my Facebook today. He was like walking and he in his photo and he has this really nice new Italian leather jacket and I said, "Looks good on you, Georgie." And I gave him like one of those kissies. Isn't it weird how much of our life is like spoken through emojis now?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But I'm sure there's a tiki emoji. Tiki bar emoji.

Oh, I'm sure.

And I'm sure like Well, obviously Christmas, so like all the things we've just talked about, there's probably an emoji for them.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can even make emojis like whatever. So, yeah. So, after 2005, like where did your like how did you get involved with the the organization the project?

Oh, that's a nice question. I Well, after I went to Burning Man, I just was like, we got invited back to San Francisco by Robin Hood, who's an incredible artist, visual artist, scenic painter, um, and just like a pretty amazing person. She invited Devon and I back to San Francisco and I was like, man, this is so cool. So, I just couldn't get back to San Francisco soon enough. And I felt like Chicago was interesting. I was I was doing a lot of acting. I was uh I was a girl Friday for a TV production company. Um and I was also Tina in Tony and Tina's wedding, which was super fun. And um I was doing radio voiceovers and I was going to Burning Man parties. But then that next year I went to Joe Bulock's Sea of Dreams, the New Year's Eve party that he used to throw. Um, and it really changed my life. I reconnected with people I'd met at Burning Man like six months before and I dressed as a giraffe and we were treated like rock stars and I just was like, I have to move here. It was like it was just that it was like so much bigger than me. The to be in San Francisco. And I I liken it to like I wanted to be in the cauldron where all of the creativity was like bubbling and stewing and I felt like the scene in Chicago was derivative in some way of the pia scene, but it felt kind of not there. But all love to the Chicago people, I feel like that scene is so cool now cuz I go back now that I live in Detroit. So, go to Chicago pretty frequently and the burner scene is just like really amazing. People are so connected to each other. The shyid has grown to like a few hundred teams. Um but anyway after that New Year's I just made a plan and then by 2007 I moved and it was a big deal. Um I didn't have a lot of money but I had big dreams and I wasn't there for that long before Jonesy. He used to be one of the RC's for San Diego, but he lived in San Francisco at that time.

Yeah.

And he was dating one of my best friends, Kitten, who let me stay on her couch for something like 3 months. I was such a couch surfer when I moved to San Francisco. My god, I was like friend on couch. Like I must have I stayed for so long. It was different times. Um now

Yeah. What' you say? Oh, Jonesy. Um Jonesy. sent me the post about uh a role at Berniman headquarters and it was to be a receptionist which I had been a receptionist in Chicago for like 3 years. I'm like oh my god I'm a natural and I wrote on my application this was a line that my dad gave me. I said I would like to be your director of first impressions.

Oo nice.

And it caught their attention and uh five interviews maybe six later.

I I had to go through like six interviews and some of them were group interviews. It was like it was like basically auditioning for the presidency.

I know a serious job here. Yeah.

Yeah. But Maryanne Goodell and Andy Grace, they took a shine to me. Um Harley said I wore too much perfume, but I think she still liked me. Um but they plucked me out of obscurity and into the limelight. Um Um, they didn't choose me to be the receptionist, but they put me uh in to work with Andy Grace, who was coming back from maternity leave after she birthed Juny. And she they needed help with the second leadership conference, Berniman Regional Network Leadership Conference, and I

I just dug in. It was a time where they kind of would contract you and see how you fit and I just kept taking on more projects and then made a case for them to just hire me. Um, it was awesome. I mean, I worked at the organization for almost 13 years.

So, was it 2008 you started working there or something?

Yeah, 2008.

And then, yeah, I just really got to grow with the organization and with the culture. I think when I started working there, I'm I probably don't have my facts exactly right. um but something like 30,000 people and then by the time I left it was like over 80,000 people. So I got to really grow with the org and grow with the culture and um really get a front row seat to what it was like to scale an organization to build international operations and to um really see the the PIA and the um the 10 principles and the ethos um have a a global reach. It's it's been really amazing to be a part of it.

So, how long So, when did you stop working for them? How long is that you working for like 13 years?

Something like this. Maybe 12 and change.

I left in 2019.

I was burnt out. I was having health problems. I really had a bad back and I had they found um a growth in my brain and I just a lot of Thank you. I mean, it's okay. I'm okay. Um, and I'm and I'm painfree and my brain is is healthy, but I I think like a lot of people that are drawn to the Burning Man culture, I'm a doer and I just I just did myself in like I just I broke and it was time for me to to just move on. So, I got a job working for a different festival for the Global Eclipse. They were going to do a big eclipse festival in 2020 in uh Patagonia, Argentina. And I just hopped on that on that uh star on that comet. And I went to Argentina for a a few months. I traveled around, met a bunch of interesting festival folks, but then ultimately the festival did happen, but not in the way that they thought because

it was co. Yeah. Yeah. What time of year was that like was supposed to happen? It was supposed to happen in the winter, December 14th, 2020.

Oh, wow.

It was It was totally um they did end up doing something small scale, but

my job was to like help them find uh they had already they already had a huge network of people. They did like the symbiosis festivals, but I was helping I was supporting the art art director um Boseke. But anyway, That was I was just looking to continue to work internationally. But then once um COVID hit and I I was still living in San Francisco, but I was like I can't live with other people anymore, especially on quarantine and I knew that in Detroit I could afford my own place and so ult and I already had friends here. So ultimately I was like uh peace out San Francisco. But it was just my time. I think everybody's got their

Well, you were there for what, like 12 years or something?

Yeah, it was. It was a great experience. How long were you in San Francisco?

Uh I think it was about 7 years or so. It was like Yeah, it was 94 to 2001.

And then you moved to Aahu.

Yeah. You're originally from or

No, originally actually I grew up in New Jersey and then

Oh my god. High school in New York and then

uh college in Vermont and then

that tracks.

Yeah.

Oh my god. I love you even more now. That's where I met Nicole. Nicole and I met at Vermont. Um

Oh my god. You've been together since college.

Yeah, we met in '92.

Oh my god, I love that.

I'm trying to remember like what year did when did you come out like with the you and Andy and Twan? Was that uh

I feel like we came there in um

was that or 2010?

So So okay, we had Luca at that point, right? He was like a little baby,

you know. He's 17 now and like and he's Oh my gosh.

Yeah, he's going to be getting his driver's license like like Yeah, we've been like looking at colleges. He's going to be

Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

His actually the prom is on Saturday or what's today? Today's Wednesday, right? Yeah. Yeah. Saturday.

His prom is this coming weekend.

Yeah. Well, they've been His school's kind of small, so they the the whole high school is like maybe 30 kids or something. So, it's like they just do a prom with like everybody like all year, all four years.

I like that.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. That was a weird I wasn't cool in high school at all, but I was cool. I wasn't cool until I think

Yeah.

I don't even know. I don't even know if I was ever cool, but I'm me now. I feel like a lot of people that go to Burning Man like weren't really like popular kids necessarily, but like they were able to live out that like cool kid life by being able to just be themselves.

Yeah.

Man, does that make sense?

Yeah. To the nerds, but like in a big way.

Huh. Well, where did the cool kids go? To like Cancun or something, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I'm not sorry. We chose something else that's not as comfortable, but a lot more street cred.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well,

I'm excited for you. That's so cool that he's 17.

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. cuz I keep thinking it's like oh yeah I could talk to him like oh do you want to go to Burning Man with this me one of these days and I mean in years past it was always kind of like h I don't want to bring a small kid to like Burning Man or like it's like I want to have fun but now that I'm like a little older I'm like I don't really have that much fun anymore anyway in ter you know I don't really I don't I still drink but like I don't smoke anymore you know and it's like I actually let's see my last year on the plyier was 2012 but then I went back this last year 2024 four. So I think I had or been on 2011 I think was my last year. So yeah, they I took like 13 years off.

Oh wow.

Yeah. So I miss like that whole like the the last year I went 2011 was the first year it sold out and then 2024 was the first year it didn't sell out. So I miss

Oh my god. So you totally missed the the bubble.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And now you get to like be more connected to like source energy.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of why I'm even doing the show cuz I mean at first I love that I was like it's like oh I want to get back and do like the regional stuff but then I was kind of like uh wasn't quite really working you know and I was just like I'm not sure I really wanted to do that but but you know I kind of wanted to still be connected and and still like you know like lots of friends and kind of like reconnect with people and so I was like how about a show talking about like you know what what like to talk about people's lives and like you know what impact like Burning Man has had you know so anyway let's let's so It's a really fun way to reconnect with people.

Well, it's funny because like I think you had this reaction a couple other people did like when I was like, "Oh yeah, come on my show. The shadow of the man." They're like, "That's dark, you know, like shadow." I mean, it's just it's more like what's the influence, you know? It's like

Yeah. I think that the people's association with it probably has to do with like that psychology kind of framework where it's like you have to look at your own shadow like

Yeah. I don't know.

Well, also I I mean, I've had a couple of people. I was like, "That's cool."

Yeah. Yeah. With a couple of people I've talked to, they were like, "Oh, you know, they had like some bad experiences or whatever and they were just like, oh yeah, I I'm leaving it all behind. Like, I I don't want to talk about that or maybe it's painful or whatever." And and so like like I think what I told you is like what I tell everybody. It's like I'm more interested in the the phoenix than than dwelling on the flame.

That's great.

You know?

Yeah. I think um I think Burnman has been so form for me. Um, but at a very early age, I mean, I was just in my mid20s when I started working for the man. And I think people Bernie man just means so much to people that when you're a representative of it, there's just like a lot of energy that comes at you as a

So like I didn't really feel like I could experiment with myself and my personas in the same way that others maybe because I felt like I had to keep a party line. Although Bernie man like definitely let me color outside the lines as a performer and

um and traveler. But I think um ultimately it was wonderful because I got to have so many uh forged so many relationships I might not have. But

I think it took a toll because of all the like the energy that people sort of expect of you because they want to be connected to the culture and if you're a conduit of that, it can kind of wear on you. Um, but now I feel whole again and it's kind of come full circle because

Burning Man is coming to town. Um, Andy Grace

and Kim

and Erica and um I don't know, maybe a couple other folks from the org are coming to Detroit and Chicago. I think they'll be in Chicago this weekend and then they're doing a public event here in Detroit on Tuesday, May 6, which may have already passed by the time folks are listening to this. But I'm stoked because I will get to see Andy again and she really taught me a lot and so did Kim and um yeah, I

So this like a town hall kind of thing, right? Because they're they're doing this like all over the place, right? They did it like like in New York and Portland or like Seattle or something like a number of places.

Yeah. I feel like Burning Man wants to listen to others and understand what might be preventing people from continuing to invest as much time and energy in the LIA experience.

Um because I think, you know, the event is probably facing some hurdles. I think that ticket sales aren't like a given, right? Um Um the political climate in the US is climate and you know with global warming too like the playa is getting less and less hospitable.

So I feel like Bernie man still wants to make sure that the the voice of the community is represented in the decisions that the organization's making. And so I'm excited to to see the folks. I unfortunately I can't go to the town hall event because I have a new job now and I'm running a

Oh, what are you doing?

Profit accelerator program.

Oh.

Or a neighboring county. So Detroit is part of Wayne County, but adjacent to us, part of the Detroit metro is uh Mcome County, which is pretty beautiful. It runs along the a lesser of the Great Lakes, a good lake, Lake St. Clair, and um it has uh not any big cities, but our office Uh I work for an organization called Advancing Mcome and our office is in the county seat which is called Mount Clemens and it used to be a place that Detroititers who were affluent would go to go to bath houses.

Oh.

And so it was a vacation destination just like Gross Point of Gross Point Blank.

And um it's kind of cool. I'm uh working for a nonprofit that supports other nonprofits. So similar to my job with Burning Man, I was supporting groups that supported the culture. Um, so

now I'm running a accelerator program for new or small um, emerging nonprofits. We launched a call out and now we have nine groups um, for our first cohort. We're midway through. So I've hosted seven workshops and now we're at the midpoint and we'll be doing seven more. And it's just been really enriching. I'm learning a lot. Um, and the folks,

this is a nonprofit, right? This is not like a government agency or anything.

No, but we're we work um we work collaboratively with the um with the county mome county and we have private funding from the Ralph C. Wilson Jr. Foundation for this accelerator program. So,

I just feel super lucky because

it's a tough world right now and I'm getting to still do work that feels meaningful to me um and to do it on on behalf of and in support of people that are serving the community across the board. So that's

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah.

Well, okay. At this point, I kind of want to get into your background. So, tell us about you. Like, where where did it all begin with little baby Mags?

Oh my god. I was born in Brooklyn.

Oh, really?

Guy that delivered me was Dr. Wener. You can't make this up. And um I'm a Leo. Uh, Scorpio Rising. I was born on 8182 and my parents met in Hun at Hunter College in Manhattan.

Oh, wow.

My dad was commuting from Queens. My mom was commuting from Stan Islands. And my dad, they met in an English literature class. My mom noticed my dad because he was able to read the Latin passages out loud. And my dad, in addition to thinking my mom was cute because she told is she's a Betty. Um he thought that she was particularly interesting because after class she used to like talk to herself. She would be like

um okay so read chapters 4 to 6. Then she would like she was like just weird and like peculiar. And uh he wore her down. Their first date was in Central Park and uh not too long after well a few years of course uh there was baby bags and um and I have a little brother named named Eugene. He's not so little. He's like 6'4 and uh

really cool. He lives in Columbus, Ohio, which is close to me. But yeah, we lived in um New Jersey where I went to school, just like you.

Oh, what part of Jersey?

North Jersey by the Oranges. Uh town ridge.

Okay. I grew up in Englewood.

Oh my god, I know Anglewood.

Yeah. Yeah,

I know from Englewood. I'm going back. We always the Jersey Shore during the summer. So Oh yeah,

going to Ocean Grove with my family this summer. But first,

in July when it's like 95 degrees, 100% humidity.

Oh yeah, good. I will fry like a lobster. But I always try to like make sure I have like my own vacation on either end of like the family vacation just for sanity sake. So I'm going to see the Black Keys perform.

Oh wow.

In Atlantic City. I've actually like never been to Atlantic City, so

I'm going to do that ahead of time. I'm I mean, I I'm just staying for like two nights at a casino. I'm sure there'll be a good spa and the Black Keys, but then I'll see my folks. But anyway, we moved to Nebraska when I was 13.

My dad got a job working for the Gallup organization. And man, that was a culture shock. I went from being like a wannabe skater girl in New Jersey with like Jenko pants and baby barrettes and like Stewie shirts to um going to to school with the children of the corn and that was a lot for me. Uh, but it was a college town. It was Lincoln. We had 30,000 university students and I've always been a fast talker and I'm tall. So, I was definitely parting with the college kids way before my time. So, maybe that prepared me for my my life and show business.

But, um, yeah, I went to Madison, Wisconsin for college. and then Chicago after San Francisco. I lived in Barcelona. Now I'm here in Detroit and I don't really want to move.

Not for a while at least. I I like it here. And I like the um

I like the guys. San Francisco, the guys are pretty flaky.

Um and definitely more Peter Pan. Here I feel they're more sturdy.

What be Peter Pan? Like Forever Young.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like a lot of guys that didn't want to grow up. So, trying to forge a long-term relationship with those guys was like meh.

Uh, like boys.

Yeah. So, but now I feel like my dating prospects are better and my rent is cheaper, but my salary is not a lot. But that's just Detroit, middle America. It's different energy than the coasts. But a lot of my friends in San Francisco feel like they're getting pushed out too.

Yeah. Yeah. No, my brother still lives there and I I still go back and like visit them at least like once a year like Yeah. But it's funny cuz then Yeah. I've been going back to visit like like once a year. So I mean it's I mean clearly it's not like when you know I lived like 94 2001 like during the first original like like do bubble. I remember like uh

Oh yeah.

I'm trying to think like the first place we rented was like uh It's like god was it Clipper and 23rd or

Oh, that's a cool area. I know that area.

25th or something.

That whole area is so cool.

Yeah, Ninoi Valley was nice. And then we lived in like 22nd in Castro like on the top of the hill. It's like Oh, that was awesome. But uh yeah, we had like it was technically a twobedroom apartment, but one of the bedrooms was like the living room.

The living room. Yeah.

Yeah. Like and that was like what $1,500 a month, you know. Now I'm sure it's like five grand. or something.

Yeah. It's interesting cuz when I lived in the mission, I was lucky like we had rent control, but it was when Google started like busing.

Yeah.

And that was a big um big thing because this the price for rent and everything just got so inflated. But I think a lot of those people those people a lot of folks that are um now able to work remotely

who were living in San Francisco, a lot of them moved to like out of the city like

uh Pescadero and um I don't know um Pedaluma like other places that are cool and urban adjacent but they're not it's not as appealing I think to folks to live in the in the density.

Yeah. Yeah. And then also

though it was fun. It was an awesome time. But then also like you know like in news like all the doom and gloom. It's like, oh, it's taken over by like homeless people and illegal immigrants, you know, and like I don't know like me and my brother were like driving around all over the place. It's like it seemed fine to me. I mean, there's always like encampments like here and there.

I say I think the sketchier parts have gotten sketchier.

Oh, yeah.

And a lot of the retail in like that Union Square area um is like the there's empty storefronts everywhere. So weird to see cuz when I there it was like Macy's Saks Fifth Avenue like um anthropology and all that is like boarded up now. It's kind of

Yeah. Well, I notic like like downtown or like South Market or it's like a lot of Yeah. There's a lot of places that were kind of closed. I think like when a lot of people work remotely like a lot of like the small little like restaurants and things like kind of closed up and dried up and went away, you know. But then other places like like Noi Valley You know, I mean, we were like walking around. We were just there like, uh, but

is that where your bro lives?

No, he lives on God, was it like Devisadero in California or something?

Oh, cool. That's I mean, man, San Francisco

making

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'd love to go back and visit, especially the food. Like,

come visit Detroit. Detroit's so cool.

Oh, yeah. I'd love to. Well, you got to come to Hawaii and I'll come to Detroit.

Okay. Deal.

Deal.

Um, All right. Well, let's get on to our last question. Uh the what what has been the impact or influence of Burning Man on your life?

Oh my gosh.

Just a small

Wow. I mean, I think I was entrusted Thank you, Made Marion. I was entrusted with a lot of responsibility at a very young age. And

how old were you when you when you first got hired?

I got hired in I was like 25.

Wow.

But then Then I mean my job really grew. I got to be an associate director. I was managing two international conferences every year. And um

Wow.

And I had I had a big budget. I had a staff. I had a team that I managed. I always got to work with Stephen Raspa, which is so cool.

Oh, I love Stephen. Yeah,

I know. I do too. He loves you. I told him I was coming on the show. He's like, "Oh, that'll be fun." Um

I got to get him on the show. I remember I was talking to him on the play cuz I was actually camping. Wick with him like this this past year. Yeah. And so I was like, you got to And also I just barely launched the show and so I had like what two episodes or three episodes or something and then I'm sure everyone's just like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Podcast Man, yeah, whatever." You know, like and so now

had a lot of cool folks on here.

Well, you're episode 20. Uh tomorrow night I'm going to be record and this is going to come out um I think you're May 15th. Yeah.

Okay. Then you can take out the part about the dates.

Uh, whatever. I don't edit.

I'm lazy.

Yeah. Um, so the tomorrow night I'm actually episode 21 I'm going to be interviewing Adriana Roberts.

Oh my god. Awesome.

I can't wait.

They are amazing.

They are fierce. They are totally on the money with all the the dynamics. Um,

I don't know. I I now have a bird's eye view of Bernie man, but I um I'm really grateful for what Bernie man did for my life. I I was given a lot of responsibility early and I was mentored by Marion and by Andy Grace and by Kim Cook and those are some really power powerful women and so I feel like the professionalism and the strategic mindedness and the um ability to plan, launch, execute, and evaluate programs has served me really well. Um and so I'm proud of what it was able to create. And plus now I also um have friends all over the world that I can visit and chat with and um so it influenced me profoundly. I also had a really nice relationship with Larry Harvey. that was very nurturing and um I'm grateful for that.

Yeah, I think his uh anniversary of his passing was wasn't that just uh recent

probably.

Yeah,

I don't always track that stuff, but

yeah, I just saw like on social media like people were posting stuff like Yeah,

he's just like he was really kind to me and he liked my sense of humor and so I felt special that I was able to connect to him. But I think he I think he did that for a lot of people.

So, I think it says even more about him than it does about me cuz he could always find common ground and he wasn't pretentious. Um, and he was endlessly curious and I think that that curiosity made him accessible and it also made the philosophies underpinning the event and its culture permeable and for others. And he was flexible and really so smart. hurt.

Yeah. Yeah. What was it? When did he pass? It was like 2018 or something, right? Something like that.

Yeah. I was still at the org and it was like I was going through a lot of my back issues and I remember that really added some stress to what already felt stressful. But I think in, you know, Burning Man fashion, he was really well honored and celebrated. And Bernie man's really good about um celebrating people's legacy. and honoring their passing and making sure their memory is preserved. And so,

yeah,

I think about I think about Bernie every day and I'm so grateful for the experience.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and for me it's like it's always been about like community and connection and like you're saying it's like like literally friends like all over the world. I mean, you can like throw a dart in the map just be like I want to go there and just be like and just like let's see who do I know. Yeah,

I love that.

Yeah. Yeah. But uh also I'm just kind of getting back to like uh

I don't know. I just I just find like there's been like a couple of points in Bernie man's history where it's just kind of like I I feel like this is kind of like one of those transition points. I mean cuz like you like you left 2019 like 2020 2021 and the event didn't happen, you know, like uh like between like I remember like I was saying between 2011 and it's like there was this whole like the whole like a sold out kind of like era and then now it's kind of like

it's like oh then there was co and then now it's like you know I don't I mean I don't even know what to like to to call it you know but but it's interesting now that they're having like all of these like town halls and and they want to

Bernie man also has advertisements now

yeah what's that all about

I don't know but I saw one of the Instagram ads one of my girlfriends showed me when I was just in San Francisco and I was like what Wow. I mean, I get it. The event has to be sustainable, but like when I was working there, that was like a hard no. So, it's interesting that the the culture has had to adapt in ways it probably didn't anticipate, maybe.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the budgets kind of grew with the attendance.

Yeah.

And Right. And then now that the attendance has kind of shrunk, but the budget's still up there.

I know. It's like, uh, oh, we better get some we better get some folks that don't that don't have um jaded viewpoints and that aren't too old and that will, you know, maybe add some new variety. Um, I hope continues to I'm sure that I don't know. I hope that the event doesn't lose that essence, but I think that essence changes over time.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's a natural a life cycle of the the majestic burner in the wild.

Yeah.

Feel like we need David Atenboroough to do a little documentary of like the the Majestic Burner.

But um yeah, I mean well early on I think just by like looking at the numbers because like when the event was like doubling and doubling and doubling like in the early years I mean just mathematically that would mean like at least 50% of the people showing up or coming for the first time,

right? You know, I mean, sometime maybe even more than that, you know? Uh I mean, some people for some people it's just like it's a bucket list kind of thing, right? You know, it's just like, oh, I just did it once and like I don't need to do it ever again. Like some people it's like, oh, they'll do it for like

like two or three times and then like if you don't

get involved like if you don't start like a the big like a theme camp or art project or volunteer, it's like I think after 3 years you get kind of jaded. just kind of like eh been there done that you know but it's the yeah the people who go for like you know 10 12 15 more years it's like you got to you got to get involved somehow it's like you know it's like you got to do something and you know there's some people that have been going for like 30 40 years you know like

my god has been around that long 40 years

yeah well the last episode was d Miller like uh

1986.

So is it 39?

Is it 40?

God. Yeah. Next year it might be 40. Yeah.

Wow.

But but it was interesting in the the Dan Miller episode. Let's see when was that? That was April 15th. Uh he was Larry Harvey's roommate, right? So uh he was telling me Well, you should listen to that episode. He was like the the the original

Yeah. Well, he's It actually goes back to I think it was like 1978 like where's like Larry and like and unbeknownst to Larry and Dan like they actually both happened to go to this like Roku, you know, the the pottery like Roku like a bunch of

Oh, that was my friend's camp.

Yeah. Well, these people like camped out in like Pescadero Beach and like in 1978.

Oh, something new.

Yeah. And so I think that was like the original original original spark like for Larry where he was like

like people camping on the beach and all this fire and they're all just kind of like communal having a good time. So yeah, it actually goes back to 1978. Like if you think about like

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, we going almost an hour now. Um so yeah. Any any final words? Anything else you got or anything you want to talk about?

You know, I'm just really grateful. I'm grateful to um to Marion and Andy for plucking me out of obscurity and into the limelight. I'm grateful for the ride.

Grateful for all the portals that it opened up in my mind, in my heart. I Yeah, I feel like uh I carry that spark with me always. Um and yeah, folks that are listening are always welcome to roll through Detroit. We'd love to show you a good time. It's a very artful and interesting place. It's not an easy place, but it's a colorful one and it's vibrant

and there's a lot of cool underground scenes and um something of an urban renaissance happening.

Um and I feel like Burning Man equips us with life skills, I think. Oh,

yeah. To like make things happen in that really inhospitable desert.

We are kind of called upon to be more of ourselves. And I think um oh the last pl oh I know one parting thought the last time I went to Burning Man I don't know it was like after the event restarted after co I camped with some friends of mine from Finland. They had a sauna

which was cool.

Um but I was at Burners Without Borders camp and somebody gave me a card or I picked up a card. I don't know how I got this card. What it says on it is success is liking yourself, liking what you do

and liking how you do it. And Burning Man brought that out in me. And I know that I've arrived in my new life here in Detroit because I like myself. I like I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. But for real, I like what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. And I think You know, that's that's what ultimately Berniman has taught me and that's a lifeline.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it took like a little girl from Brooklyn and then to to New Jersey and then to where is it? I Iowa or

Oh, Nebraska. Nebraska.

Iowa.

And then, you know, you went up to college and then, I mean, you were 25 and then Bernie man. You went to Burning Man and then got inspired and then they kind of plucked you in and they're like, "Here, here's a job here. Have some responsibility and develop your life skills and like now here you are working for a nonprofit that's accelerating other nonprofits. I mean that's

Oh, thanks man.

That's an incredible story. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're just an incredible inspiring.

No, you are. I mean I feel like you really held held it down when folks wanted to do the circle of regional effiges. I remember you really um pushing for that and I think that that was a really important project for so many groups around the world to do feel an open invitation to create art and to build community around that art. That's a whole other podcast is talking about that. But I also think you, you know, you care about the culture. You care about

philosophies and I see you, um, you know, voicing your thoughts and opinions on the regionals list and keeping it real and I respect you so much.

Oh, nice. Well, I appreciate that.

You, too. All right. But as I always tell people, this show is not about me.

Yeah.

Whatever.

About you. Uh, okay. So, let's see. If anyone wants to reach you, like what would be like a public uh thing you want to give out? Not your phone number.

That's what one guest did one time. I had to edit that out. Like, not your goddamn phone number.

Um, people can reach me through my LinkedIn, Megan Metigliano, or my Facebook. Facebook, honestly, is the best place to reach me. I know it's like a little old school, but that's where I have my quote unquote following. That's where I have my community, and I'm on Facebook every day. So, folks want to find me. It's just Mega Martigliano.

Okay, awesome. Uh, and you have any plugs like do you want to uh for your advancing mcome thing you want to like a a URL or anything or

Oh, yeah. I'll share that. Um, we were just in cranes. We featured in Cranes Detroit.

Um,

Cranes is a business publication.

Uhhuh.

We were written up. We've been on the news quite a bit. Um, talking about our accelerator. So, I'm proud of the program. Um, and then I'm going I'm doing some traveling this summer. I'm going to Railird Music Festival in um in Lexington, Kentucky. I'm going to Amster Dam to go to Wasteland

in July. I'm going to Iceland on my way back.

Oo.

I mean, I can't afford it, but whatever. YOLO.

Um, and I'm uh I'm also going to go to Bourbon and Beyond, which is in Louisville, in September, and I'm going to go to Aftacon, which is Americans for the Arts convention, um,

in Cincinnati in June. So, if anybody's going to be at any of those, things. Um, reach out to me. I'd love to connect with other burners or burner curious and um, just keep on rocking it.

So, for the listeners, your last name is spelled R U T I G L I A N O.

Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Uh, and Oh, yeah. So, do you have like a URL for advancing?

Um, it's just advancing mcome.com.

Oh. Oh, okay.

It should be.org, but we're com because I don't know why.

I'll put that in the show notes. Advance. M A C O M B. Right.

Yep.

I think everywhere else would say Makeome, but here it's Mcome.

Mcome.

Just like when I was in Nebraska, they had a town called instead of Beatatric, it was Beatatric.

Yeah. Well, it's like in Vermont, you know.

Uh God, it's like B A R R E is Barry. or like uh there's a little town called everyone would say like Charlotte, but they're like, "No, it's Charlotte."

It's so funny. When I first moved to Detroit, it's a French settled city, so there's a lot of French, and I really French. And I I love speaking French. It's like my It's like my favorite language to speak.

Um but when I first moved here, I'd be like, I live along the cut. And I remember my friend Matt Naim was like, Megs, it's Dquender. I'm like, oh. And like there were like several things that I would pronounce in a certain way that people are like, no, honey, it's Detroit. Like, stop. And I was like, got it. Okay.

I don't know. The sounds so much nicer.

I know, but it's like Detroit.

Like these are very like the the language is very I want to say like it's kind of punctuated or it's like

I want to say harsh. But I don't want to be harsh, but

we took your French and we made it American.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much. Uh, and this has been awesome interview.

It's been so fun, Andy. I'm I'm glad that you twisted my arm. Thanks for your flexibility on getting it scheduled.

Ah, no worry. My pleasure.

Today was perfect.

All right. Thank you.

All right.

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