EP 60 Jorge Luis Gamboa VIII

Episode 60 with Jorge Luis Gamboa VIII is out now! Meet Jorge Luis Gamboa VIII, a regional contact and long-time Burning Man participant known as the Ambassador. The conversation traces Gamboa's journey from his first trip to the Nevada desert in 2010 (fueled by a series of personal hardships) to his leadership within the Motropolis and Mo communities, which emphasize humanity and collaboration. Jorge recounts the evocative history of the Mo Road Show, a cross-country adventure on a 60-foot bus that fostered a deep sense of collective identity and mutual support among its diverse international passengers. He explains the transformative power of shared artistic experience, highlighting how the principles of Burning Man can be translated into a lifelong commitment to building community and elevating human connection.

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Transcript

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They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama, drama, drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. of burning up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man.

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Do you think it's that Andy? 

Today our guest is Jorge Luis Gamboa the Ace. Yeah.

Wow. So, your namesake, I mean, I'm not sure how many great great great grandfathers that would be. I mean, I mean, how many years ago is like hundreds of years ago?

Well, so this is the the story as far as I know. I am a removed eighth. So, actually, my great my grandfather Roberto named his um firstborn son Horge because his older brother Horge was any uh died before he was able to have children.

Oh.

And so I know that that uh as far as that tradition and I know my great-grandfather was Dr. Jorge Chawasa Dorea and he wrote uh uh one of the first anatomy textbooks uh physical anatomy textbooks for in in Spanish.

Oh wow.

So I know up to uh the fifth. I don't know before that.

Yeah. Yeah. I Well, I think most people can't go back. I mean, I mean, probably half of families are just kind of like, well, there's me or some people don't even know their mom or dad, you know, and it's like, yeah, it's kind of sad.

I use it as a I use it as a moniker, but, you know, it's it's the family story and and to me, if my grandfather was willing to continue to the tradition to that degree,

I kind of stick with it even if it's not on any documentation or anything.

Yeah. So, is there a a ninth?

No, not at the moment.

Not yet.

Yeah. possibly, but not yet. Yeah.

For listening out there, ladies.

So, uh, so, okay. So, you're regional contact, um, is it San Antonio?

Yes. Uh, Central Texas. There's three of us. Uh, and that includes Austin and San Antonio.

Oh, okay.

But I am I'm the one stationed here in San Antonio.

Okay.

Well, I live here, so makes sense.

Oh, yes. How long have you been doing that?

Uh, just last year was my first year.

Oh, okay.

Uh, Yeah.

So, how Okay. What when did you first get into Burning Man? What was your or your or what was your first Burning Man experience? I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be going to the Black Rock Desert.

Well, my first Burning Man experience was talking about it with a co-orker for year, like at least 2, three years. He had been telling me about this place that I could go. Uh, I worked at a I worked at PBS in Austin and it was really like a building with no windows. We did we did master control and we were watching and making sure all the the panels were playing and so we would sit there all night long or all day long just kind of us in TVs and so he would we would have great conversations and he would always tell me, "Man, you'd be great to go to Burning Man. It would be so good. You know, you would really enjoy Burning Man." So, it's really my first exposure to it.

I hadn't really known anything about it before that point.

Oh, you weren't even exposed to like Flip Side or like regional stuff around even. Had you heard of that?

None of the regionals and I didn't even hear find out about the regionals until after I came back from my first Burning Man trip.

Oh. Ah, that's interesting. Yeah. Know, everybody has a a different story, you know. I mean, there's some people be like, "Oh, yeah. I was going to Burning Man's for or regionals for like, you know, 12 years before I ever hit the play, you know."

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, what was the first year you went to the Burning Man?

2010.

2010. Yeah. And so, okay, I think we have a treat for everybody. This is the first time in the history of this podcast that you actually have a clip of yourself from before you went to your first Burning Man you're you're going to play.

So, a little context to it. Um, so it and there's a little bit of a story behind it. Uh, my first trip to Burning Man was actually uh during the one of the worst years of my life. Um, I had uh just roommates that kind of bailed on me. My car was stolen. It was just, you know, uh my apartment complex was shutting down, so I had to move out at a certain point. And I knew all this was was coming to a head. And at that moment, uh, when when like the day after my car was stolen, I was just kind of like distraught. I'm looking on Craigslist and I and I find that my, uh, I find a Craigslist post for Mo Don John Mo Road Show and the post says uh, 21 artists, 21 days from Austin to Burning Man. And the whole idea was we're going to get these artists together to uh, get this uh, 60 foot bus called the MO bus. So that we eventually called the MO bus, but raise the funds to get this bus and go to Burning Man. And I see this post. I'm like,

well, um I'm going to move out of this apartment. Things are sight. Uh let's just go to Burning Man. And that's when I decided to go. And we started meeting like at the if you're familiar in Austin, the Spider House. We started having these these general meetings and and we started these plans with these different artists about going. And this clip was uh maybe like a week or two before we were going to go, uh, we started having the conversation about who with those who were actually going to step foot on the bus, what their inspiration was for going on the bus. So, I'll go ahead and pull up that clip and see if we can get it playing for you.

Sure.

Do a little technical Rick and Romeo here. Yeah. So this was like a couple of weeks before you actually left for the play.

Yes. Uh we had been um planning this trip and we had gone uh we had had fundraisers and this was all around based around couch surfing. So at the time Austin was the seventh largest couch surfing community in the country. And so people were finding themselves from all over the world in San in Austin. And I was going to a school in uh at UT at the time. So all these people were really um there to experience whatever the United States had to offer. We had people from all over the world and a lot of people got roped into going to Burning Man or at least uh uh going and celebrating with us Burning Man

in 2010. That was like one of the last years you could actually just like show up at the gate and like buy a ticket.

Yes.

And it and we wound up having people from uh eight different countries and uh we had 21 artists 21 days.

Wow.

So a week a week to get there, a week there and a week back.

So how do you measure like that? It that that Austin is like the what do you say number five or number six like biggest couch surfing place on?

It was the seventh largest uh couch surfing community. And and by that I mean the website that was um uh functioning as an intermediate between people who were traveling and people who were providing their couches to people.

Oh, so there's like a was a site. Oh. Oh,

yeah. There was there's still a website to this day called couch surfing.com and at the time it was really huge and so uh they had their metrics of about how many people were using the website and it was the seventh largest uh destination. I do feel couch surfing is one of the reasons why Austin blew up so big early on. You had a lot of world travelers show up and and really talk about the scene and about how cool it was and how all these people were doing really amazing things and they would go back home and people who were born along the tourist end started braving to come to Austin because they were hearing so much about it while the couch surfers were truly the the the nomads. They were the early adopters going out and actually um visiting you know

I got to say that's awfully like uh trusting.

Yeah. And you know and that's that was part of the amazing uh the the amazing thing is that we had uh the only safe guards were the community itself and how they uh basically checked everyone and

did everyone have like a profile and you'd have like so many stars or whatever and like

yeah cuz I mean I can see that like on both ends like people offering the couch or people wanting to take the couch you know be like what situation am I get into with this this person

afterwards saying like I liked it or they were a little nutso or uh And we had a good crew with us. Uh, so I I'm not hearing you're not hearing the audio, are you?

No,

I think that's I might have to send it to you.

So, what was the name of the group you joined again? It was the the bus.

So, uh, my first trip was, uh, on the Mo Boho Mo Road Show, and it was this gentleman, Don John Vanovich, who had gone to Burning Man the year previously, and he had gone on, uh, to run for president. president. So he had taken a a crew of people on this bus that they initially called the Mo Further and his journey was based on the Kin Keyzy trip kind of. So they were all the they were all the the um uh they were on their own trip. Uh they called it the the they called it the Mo Further and they were the they were the impetus of Mo uh which was like kind of our our predecessor to our our camp and our whole whole whole group afterwards because we started calling the bus the MO bus, you know, in in honor of the Mo Further

and uh and so it was this 60-oot bus that was owned by a family, a traveling family ministry.

And they would travel the country and they were called the Lord family. And so this bus had all this like uh artwork and everything for uh this family, the Lord family ministries.

We we had we had spent the summer trying to raise the money for this and so we had like car washes. We had different parties. We had a a u a an April Fool's party called the Masquerade of Fools.

Uh and so it was a really a a wonderful summer of just activity and meeting people and raising funds and and and eventually we were able to get this bus and they brought it down and only a only like a handful of the people that were actually part of the planning wound up on the bus. It was really more of like who could go in the moment.

Oh. And uh we we spent the evening like demoing some of the stuff and and it was a a bus and a half. It was the bus with the articulated uh ends like the city buses.

So it went on. So we had a living room with a couch in the front area with the sink. We had a little shower with an office, four bunk beds. Uh and then we had what we called the littlest bar in Texas, which was the articulation where the bus kind of bends. And then we had a bunk bedroom. and a master bedroom.

So, how many people were on the bus?

About 21 to 24 depending on the ride, like at what part of the ride.

And we started off um going uh like we got it to uh Austin. We had our very first Mo Carnival, which was kind of our kickoff uh there at U Hotel Vegas when it first opened. And we had one of our first shows there. And we got in the bus, demoed a bit, got it ready, we, you know, just made it comfortable for us and took off and we went on this cross country trip to uh the Grand Canyon. Um, you know, just kind of stopping along the way with the the intention of being a traveling cavalcade of characters that we were, you know, going across the country sharing our art

and the bus made it. It didn't like break down anywhere.

Oh. Oh, we had some breakdowns. We uh we at one point we broke down in Williams, Arizona. Uh it was actually a uh all it was was a tube, a pipe that had burst, but we landed there on a Saturday uh and there was nothing open in Williams, Arizona at the time and it was the next day was Sunday. So, we just kind of spent a couple days there and even and one of the reasons that and I'll get back to this later on about why Burning Man is so um so uh has had such a big impact in my life was I saw the teamwork and the things of of people wanting to get to Burning Man to like for me part of this the journey that was so formative was that we were all set on going to Burning Man. So when the bus's um power steering hose pipe burst, we had like four people on the front grabbing the steering wheel trying to steer it into a gas station and and we pull into this grassy area and you see a uh a truck in the way and we were like almost there just where we need to be. Uh so all Like all of us got out and actually just lifted one end of the truck and spun it.

Oh yeah.

So we can get through to the parking spot and we put it back exactly where we needed to.

Oh yeah.

And even after that we had the uh owner of the gas station run out and he was upset cuz there was like power steering fluid and he's like I'm going to have to clean this. You can't get like whoa whoa whoa whoa. What if we clean it for you and we you know there's nothing we can do about it. Hey our car our bus is broken down. How can we ameliate this and at least make it suitable for us? Oh, well, if you clean it, I guess that'll be fine. So, we um fire uh what was it? Daisy chained like the fire brigade buckets of water.

Yeah. And poured it with the chemicals, cleaned off the the the stains on the on the floor, and he was happy.

And then we bought out his four loco supply. So, he was even happier after that.

And we just enjoyed the rest of the night until we can get the bus fixed. Wow. So,

yeah.

Yeah. No, it's funny about like moving the the truck like it's funny like like when you when you get like a group of people together and they're motivated. I mean, it sounds kind of piffy. It's like get a bunch of people together and motivated. They can do anything. You can lift a car. It's totally true. Like I've done like I remember I grew up in in New Jersey. I went to high school in New York like in the 80s and you know we got into all these like high jinks and I remember one night like we're out in Manhattan somewhere And we decided that we were going to move all the cars like this entire length of a block and there must have been like 40 cars. And so yeah, and there was like six of us and we we went to the first car and we all and it's just like you get all six of then you go okay 1 2 3 lift and then you move up and over like an inch then up and over an inch and then up and over an inch right and so then by the time we were like 30 40 cars in I think it was like a Volkswagen Beetle and we were lifting like the front end which you know the engines in back end. We couldn't even lift it cuz we were like so tired and like all these cars were just like, you know, perpendicular just like all over the street and like someone came out at the end and you're just like, "Hey." You know, like, you know, like ran away, you know. But no, but it's amazing. It's like you can you can lift a car, you know, like if you get people together, it's like enough hands, you know, makes easy work.

Yeah. Many hands make life makes slight work. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, it was the most Mo hobo circus. What was that?

It was the moho mo u mo road show. Now that was the initial name.

Mo road show.

Homo or hobo.

Mo. It's a moon john's moho mo road show.

So moho is like mo bohemian or road show.

Mo road show or mobo hobo. Road Show.

Mo Don John.

Uhhuh.

Mo Boho Mo Road Show.

Oh, Mo Road Show. Okay. Yeah.

No, we definitely shortened the name after we just call it the Mo Road Trip.

And we proceeded to do after the first year about six more road trips. Um we've had mo caravans, we've had so it really was like a a the impetus for for a whole uh many years of of community and events and uh it it spawned that uh leading after the burn.

So this was just the first year that uh

yeah

that the Mo Johnson Mo Road Show hit the play.

Yes. And uh and we shortened it to the Mo Road trip because it it was really centered around our dear and Mo Don uh Don John Vonovich at the beginning and we've uh been continuing on. He is the king of Mo um and I am the ambassador and then uh my friend uh Don Floriani, he was the uh the third kind of um mainstay of Metropolis early on uh because that that that turned soon turned into our camp afterwards. So we went on this we went to the road trip and actually got there and had an amazing time because we had that that collect unity of we're going to get to the the burn. We got to get to the burn. And we had people lose tickets. We had people, you know, hop on the bus. We had people that had to leave the bus. But all the all along, you know, we have to get to the burn. We have to burn.

It's almost like the, you know, the classic like heroes journey kind of thing. I mean, sound too like romantic, but but it is right. You know, it's I mean, I'm not sure like had had anybody like this part of it like I've been to Burning Man before or That's a very good question cuz only one person had two people had gone to Burning Man.

Our friend um Don John who was the the the the whole inspiration for the thing and then I believe our friend Johnny had been there before.

Um and then everybody else was a virgin. Some people had heard about it and were like wanting to go. Uh we had uh people from we had a friend from Malaysia who was just in the United States. Um and and we recorded it all. We had tons of footage that we started putting together that were memorable moments. Uh so like one of our friends he he was there on his own journey learning how to like have fun and you know enjoy this vacation because where he was from a lot of his uh culture expectations even their drinking and their partying

were all very workrelated very networkrelated kind of has has the the kind of like the the the drive for connection and for success but

to have fun and to go do something like that to him wasn't like he didn't quite see that as success. So throughout his trip at Burning Man, you could see on his face and his hair and uh from the moment he got there to the moment he left how how much it had changed him and how much he had like just dropped the need to have to succeed and find success and and just being present and having fun.

Wow. Wow. I love that. So of these 20 some odd people that are on the bus, I mean how many I mean you answered a Craig list ad, right? I mean,

did you guys know each other before or was it like you said just like a core group of just a handful of people and everyone else is kind like, "Hey, I answered the ad."

Yeah. Uh well, because we were having meetings, right? So, uh that kind of spread into couchless post uh couch surfer postings. Um just inviting people to parties and events and then just telling everyone, "Hey, we're going on this trip to to Burning Man. Hey, this is what we're doing here." And then just picking people up along the along the way. Hey, do you want to go? Hey, would you like to go? And we still had our our core organizers and people that our community around the organization who who went to our parties but never stepped foot on the bus, you know, and then even along the way, we were still posting uh on Craigslist and Facebook along our journey and that's where we picked up a few people, you know, to help with gas and things like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz uh that that bus could not go over 60, I think it was or over 50, really.

Yeah. Well, just the whole description of it, that's like it made it there. one piece, you know.

Yeah. And it was it was modified for a traveling family ministry. So, it would only take four extension cords and it would power the whole bus.

It was registered as an RV at the time.

Huh.

But you say like an articulated bus that's probably meant for like just going around like one city. It's like we're driving like a thousand miles, you know?

Now, the second year I it did not make it as far. Um and I did get stranded. Uh after the our second Burning Man trip in Grants, New Mexico, and I stayed in Grants, New Mexico during the whole Occupy movement uh with Don John Vanovich. So, we had our own little Occupy Grants, New Mexico component during the the early years of the early year of Occupy Wall Street.

Yeah. So, were the other people who answered the call on Craigslist and whatever like uh were they in a similar place? You you know, it's like I'm getting kicked out of my house and my car got stolen. Was like, "Oh yeah, well my dog got killed and my girlfriend left me." It's like, "Oh yeah, well everyone have like a similar or they just like I'm going on an adventure."

Yeah. I think a lot of the people that had that were going with us had more of a I'm already on a trip to the United States.

Show me the United States. And so they already had an energy of intention of exploring, right? Um I think only well there was only a few that were just really meaning to go to Burning Man

and some kind of just found that that was the thing to do.

So we had people from uh Switzerland, from Malaysia, from France, from Germany, uh from Mexico, and then several from the uh the United States.

Um and then I'm probably missing one more one more place.

Yeah.

Uh yeah.

And so I take it you guys just went to like like just like open camping cuz I'm sure back then it was like back then I think it was something like only 10% theme camps, 90% open camping. I mean it later like that flipped to like 90% theme camps to 10% open. Nowadays I think it might be more like I don't know 60 40 70 30 or something, you know, but

a lot more camps, right? Well, we were very fortunate to have a connection to DFT damn f****** Texans

and they uh camped in Gigsville

uh which was the first uh theme first village, right?

So We actually got to park our bus and be a part of Gigsville that first year. And so we had the the carbecue and it it really was an amazing welcoming cuz that first day they had like a an ice flu where you can like take shots from an ice slide and and then the morning they they basically lit a car carcass on fire and grilled on the car on on the car remains.

Yeah.

Yeah. The barbecue.

And they had like bacon apocalypse that would cook like 20 lbs of bacon. the morning.

So, it really was just kind of this spectacular intro of just like

us successfully making it to Burning Man and having this grand welcome uh that just was already in progress. Like it wasn't for us particular or anything.

We were just um welcome to the right spot to feel like we were a part of it.

Okay. Well, you can send me that clip later on and I'll I'll put it in here.

You know, help me guide.

All right. Um, so what's your name?

Uh, my name is Luis Gamboa.

And um, you know, tell us a little bit about your background. You know, how you got to be the person you are today?

Well, I'm um from San Antonio and I came here, I moved to Austin, go to school. And growing up, I've um I've always been a people person. I've always loved being um understanding people who they are. You know, I was always one of those people who was in different leadership organizations and you know I went and I talked to a bunch of people. I was a mentor, a tutor, a teacher and then I also did you know video projects. I learned how to create my own short films and I became a growing up in high school became a cultural theorist and I came up with my own documentary ideas and my own theories. And as I went to school I started going to you know UT UT and I started learning about culture anthropology and how you know to think about people not only just objectively but you know intimately. understanding them as you get to know them and trying to understand what makes people people and so through the course of that you know I've learned to become an artist in the fact that you know artist is a way for people to express themselves you know I I've I've met musicians I've met you know art artists I've met you know even people who design programs that you know their art is their work and so I I like to go out and meet as many people as I can and take that into myself and what I take into myself, I like to share that with others that I meet, you know. So, I I I've like to take from every experience that I ever have and give that to people as their own, you know, experiences between us.

And uh how'd you hear about the Moz?

Well, I heard the MO bus uh you know, through Couch Surfers and you know that's was a website that I wanted to get into to meet more people around Austin and see you know what they how they live their lives and so um I saw that and I came and I figured it'd be a good way to get more into my creative side, you know, and add into tap into my own art as well as, you know, meeting other people who have art.

And uh what do you plan to accomplish on this artistic journey that we're creating?

Everything that I can. I want to talk to people. I want to create art. I want to create music. I want to, you know, spread love. I want to try to create a new way for people to experience, you know, experiences with other people, you know, instead of just seeing art, but being involved in it, having their own piece, you know, play a part in the whole of art.

Wow, that was a great clip. Um, no, but I'm just wondering like, you know, like what you thought of Burning Man and like and how like what when you got there like and how it it like it matched up or you know, like what were you thinking like?

Well, I I can say that um initially so I was given a quest uh by my friend uh to to accomplish when I went to Burning Man.

Okay.

So, the the very first moment that that I went there uh I told my friends, "Hey, we're going to go look for this place." And my my mission, my quest was to find Laen Court, uh because apparently it was his uh his buddies from back when he used to go to the to Burning Man and he had not been to Burning Man in a while in a while. So, I arrived and we just wandered that I got a couple of my friends who was like, "Hey, let's wander." And we searched for it. We just kind of walked around aimlessly, not knowing how to find anything cuz we weren't accustomed to anything about the man. I had no idea if we went

You thought you were just walking.

Well, you know, you have to start somewhere, right? Okay.

And um by the end of it, I was not concerned about whether if I found it then or not. It was just kind of like, hey, let's go on a little hunt for this. And And then I I didn't think about it again for the rest of the burn. Uh I did not search for it. Uh you know, if it came up, it came up. And so I I really focused on, you know, meeting artists, seeing what everybody was creating and and doing out there. And it it really was impactful to see how many different ways people could gather and people could come together to create experiences.

And and then and and that continues to be to this say what I'm what I value and what I'm interested in how people come together and create um create uh experiences because as a culture anthropologist and a cultural theorist seeing human beings today and how we create culture and cultivate culture um is to me more fascinating than than what we've come up with and uh with all these other ideas and invention technology has has really revolutionized the way we get together the way we create culture and the way we come together. And Burning Man to me is at the forefront. It's always like the the largest conference of how people come together to do things.

Mhm.

And what those things are are wide and diverse and varied over across many fields. And and so I was seeing, you know, the the tech people come up with cool things like the talk to God phone, you know, which to me early on was like a a a technological marvel. It's like, you mean I pick up this phone and it actually, you know, we weren't getting signal at the time. the area code.

How can you like actually lift this uh pay phone, pick up a pay phone, and someone on the other line answers, you know, there's no wireless, there's no what what's what kind of technological chainery is happening here.

Uh you know, and then all the the lights and the installations getting smarter and smarter. It was it was really revealing to me. And then to see how people come together in a camp. Uh so, uh to conclude um my quest, and which is actually kind of the origin story for my my burner name. Uh it was the very last day of of of Burning Man for us. We were about to go and then my dear friend Don Floriani who uh is like has been my brother in arms uh we were we're both knights of the Royal Order of the Machete. Uh uh and so we he actually told me on the last day, hey Jorge, let's go for a walk. And I was like sure and we walked around. We saw a couple things like the water bar, you know, we saw a couple um you know, the where where the water bar is where they have, you know, hundreds of bottles of water with different names like love, um wild, uh orgasms, intelligence, wisd, you know, all these things. And they're all actually different sourced from different places.

Oh, really?

So, each bottle is actually from a different different source of water. Um and as we're going on this adventure, he points out at uh he points out this place and he goes, "Hey, what's that?" And we see this kind of um sand uh this dust colored structure and I see a little sign and it says Lahonten Corore. I'm like this is it Tony. This is where we have to go. We have to go to La Hunt. And see I had been told a couple a few things about La Hunt that I needed to know before going in. One, there's only one entrance into Lahontore. Um and when you go in, you better know Raml Otherwise, what the hell are you doing in La Hunt? Right. Uh, so I had I had already explained this to Tony. So, we approach and we, you know, we're a little nervous and we go in and sure enough, there's like a little group of people just kind of sitting there and we walk in the front entrance and it's the the the structure is actually camoetting. It's just one large camonet structure that's swaying in in the wind. So, it kind of blends into the dust.

And as we approach, uh, they're like, "Yeah, can can we help you?" And I'm like, Yes. Uh is is uh Raml here and you know looking around and sure enough there's a fellow named Raml and and he looks like a Raml with uh with his you know leather hat and teeth in it. Crocodile Dundy teeth and

le jacket and like he he he looks like a Raml and uh he's like yeah what can I do? And I was like well my friend my coworker the jud Rob Marley sent me the judge and and he was like oh Rob. Oh my goodness. Oh yeah. come come sit down. And and and they proceed to tell me all these stories, you know, apparently they hadn't seen him in a long time, you know. Um they he used to camp with them and then he moved to Austin with his partner with his wife at the time who had had fallen ill and and passed away and unfortunately and they hadn't really seen him since. And so I was really his first contact, their first contact with their dear dear friend and campm and family member. And then just to have that instant warmth and welcome that shifts, you know, just from a name and

and and and they're like telling me stories and and I and I and I tell them, "Hey, I'm going to go see him next month, next Wednesday. I work I have a shift with him. Do you want me to take anything?" And they're like, "Yeah, yeah." And and they start like um giving trinkets and Raml runs off and he gets a bag and some people are giving me hugs and they're like, "Give this to him and give this to him." And

Wow.

And uh at some point like uh one of his friends a friend comes up and they're like hey this guy knows the judge and and he's he's like do you want to give him anything and he like rips a necklace off of his off of himself puts it in there.

Wow.

Raml cuts uh some of the the camo netting and he even takes some of the dust and puts it in there and he says make sure he gets a good whiff of this. And yeah and so it turns out a lot of the camp was from like uh old Gigsville the lantern carp. was from some of Giggsville uh Temple of Atonement early in the day.

Oh, I remember them. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so they had

Is that still around? Well, we can talk about later, but yeah.

Well, they had moved to Lan Corp so they can be a little bit closer to more facilities um for some of the people that were kind of like, you know, cooling down from from those days, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So, uh it it was a little bit more of a family. They're like, "Yeah, anytime you want to come back, you know, come say hi. You know, you're a part of the family here. You're welcome here. and and just to have and and at this time, mind you, I I'm from San Antonio. I'm um I wasn't too to you know, San Antonio is a majority uh minority city.

Uh we're a lot more Hispanic. I came from the west side. It was a lot more Hispanic, a lot more Latino.

Um I didn't I knew uh people of all races, but I didn't know too many, right? They were they were always being able to count on my hand how many people I actually knew. And so to go Then moving to Austin was, you know, a big experience as well. But then from that to go to my first national trip, I had never really traveled the country. And then just to meet complete strangers from a whole different part of the country who welcome me with open arms and it was just incredible. I had never I had not ever experienced anything like that. And as as we're leaving and we we say our goodbyes, um the friend who had ripped the necklace off of his himself Uh, he shouts out, "Bye, ambassador." And and my buddy Tony looks at me and he's like, "That's it. That's that's that's who you are. You're the ambassador. That's your name."

Wow.

And so that's how I got my Brener name.

That's amazing. That's funny.

I I don't know because when you I you know, so your flight name was Ambassador like I thought it was part of um the the the Mo the Mo road trip thing, you know, where it's like oh uh Was it Don Johnson? Vonovich was like he was the president or whatever and somebody else was this and I was like, "Oh my god, is there going to be like a secretary of like education and

it it just worked out that way. It it and and so that's what I became. I I became the ambassador. I like I I realized how much that name resonated with me from the get-go,

you know, um being excited about culture and human beings and and these experiences. I was like, "Yes, that fits. and and after I got that name, I I I ventured to embody it and I've I've been on that journey ever since.

Yeah. Well, I guess it's sort of a foreshadowing kind of name for you. I mean, later on became a regional contact. I mean, like was this kind of a chicken and egg thing like one led to the other or is just more like, oh, this is just a someone had noticed it's a reflection of who I actually am?

Yeah, I think because of just the way that I am, people saw that reflect and that reflected in them and and that's why that would even come up. you know, uh because I I don't know why he said called me that uh but he did and it made sense because here I was bridging the gaps between these people who had not met in a long time. So in action I felt myself doing that and and looking back at everything I was trying to do about bringing people together to get on this bus and like meeting people from different parts of the world. I was like this is I'm on that journey right this is my journey that is the the journey right now that the ambassador is going on

and so Uh this was your first year. Like what happened after that?

Yeah. Uh yes, we definitely

bucket list one and done.

We wanted to continue it now. Uh I had

uh we many of us parted ways at the end of that trip. We made it back. Um I had fallen off the bus.

Um uh trying to lasso my Malaysian friend off the top of the bus. Uh some uh yeah, I I was at the the edge of front edge barefoot. um

was moving

trying to No, no, we were parked

but uh the the real story is I had uh I was play fighting with um our friend the Swiss assassin who was our Swiss friend from uh from Switzerland and I I I kicked a a flip-flop with him by saying like never mess with a Mexican with flip-flops. Um I hit him once and the second time it went on top of an an 18-wheeler next to us.

And they belonged to my friend uh Tony uh Don Fyani. and he was like, "Do you know how hard it is to find a size 12 flip-flop in Walahara?" I'm like, "Oh, okay. There's there's some meaning to this." So, I asked I asked my friend, the Swiss to to help me make a lasso out with some rope or to help me uh tie it and I was able to tie tie it to a bag of rice and I tossed it over and I pulled the the flip-flop off in one clean sweep. I felt like a badass, right? And so,

there you go.

Even my friend

my My friend Jayce had his trumpet was playing Indiana Jones, you know. So I asked him to make me a lasso and um I see my Malaysian friend coming, Ashan coming up the side of the bus and he stands at the front and I I kind of peek over the edge and I'm like I'm going to get him, you know, just playing around and see if I can lasso him. And he looks up at me, I look at down at him, he starts laughing and I start falling forward.

Oh.

So I like slide down the front of the bus, hit my my ass on the ground, fall to my back, back and then immediately have like 13 14 people rush and check every part of my body and and like are you okay you know laying hands me and it really was the first time I ever felt that much of an outpouring of love

from a group of people

you know just to sincerely see are you okay and that in itself was another life-changing moment just that that that happened and I had all those people there for me all to check on me and And you know, everyone afterwards, I mean, I felt fine. I wasn't broken. I had like slid on the glass so I didn't completely fall straight down off.

Oh, just like knock the wind out of you or something.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like rebar or anything. Yeah,

exactly. It was just kind of on the concrete, but I did bust my ass and and got a little woozy there. So, everyone's concerned. And it was only 2 hours away from Austin. Uh, so I not clean up my ass. And everyone's fussing about taking me to the hospital. I'm just, "No, let's just go home. Let's just go home. home. Um, and after some fussing and like me maybe like kind of like getting overheated and dropping down again, we get to Austin and I'm on the ground and that's the last time I see a lot of these people because I'm just laying on the ground saying bye bye bye. And and by the end of it, we had um Don John, Tony, the Mobus, and myself. And we're like, "Okay, well, what do we do? What do we do with this 60oot bus? Uh, and so that led into us getting uh a a 7acre property out in Elgen that we were able to find. Um, it just had one little little shack and um yards and yards of weeds. And so Tony and I went out there with machetes, cut out a whole 60 by whatever square feet of of just weeds with these machetes, which is how we earned the the title of Nights of the Royal order the machete.

Oh,

I thought it was from the movie Machete.

We we handled like all this space to clear out with the with machetes and clear out these weeds to park the bus

and we proceeded to live on this bus for the next year

and plan our next trip.

Okay.

Yes.

So, we had uh we created the Moarm at that point. So, after our first trip, we wanted to continue the momentum. We had this bus. We had this really great experience. We knew that was something vital that we were discovering. So, we were really, you know, some of us are, we're all uh very much activists and we were very much um intellectuals who wanted to find the deeper meaning and and and create change. And we were seeing that the trips to this trip to Burning Man really did create a lot of change for us in our community just by doing all the activities and and and just the plan of going to Burning Man. And that kind of direction of going to Burning Man and Bust had so much of an impact that we wanted to continue that we and so we started thinking well how can we progress how can we um get a group of people we had maybe like 40 50 people in our in our sphere at that time immediately why couldn't we build that up to do more like why couldn't we not like have our own um our own facilities have our own our own um you know our own insurance our own phone plan our own you know how can we create a way of life around this

and we started think about things like the art of ecstatic living,

you know, how can we live life ecstatically? And so we started having events and conversations and it it was a little bit of a a distance because we had um we were in Elgen in a lot of our communities, Austin. So we actually had a second house in Austin that we called Mole Control. So we had Mole Control in Austin there on on on I think Mopac, not Mopac. Um I I don't recall the name of the street, but um there uh near airport. Uh so we had uh one house there and we had our our farm out in Elgen. And so we would have events and we would consistently have gatherings to to bring people together. And we called this whole thing Metropolis just to kind of and like kind of bring it all together under one name. So that's our camp name and that's kind of our our transitional cultural community.

Oh wow. And so has this Mo community have been going on like ever since? Like every year.

Yeah. Uh I um uh actually after the that year um my friend uh Don Don John and Anton Tony asked well like what does Mo mean? You know I kind of came around what seems like Mo is u being human and not only being human human but acknowledging the humanity of others.

So we did go on a second road trip and the bus broke down that road trip and we had to get a a vans to take us the rest of the way. And uh when when I came back to check on the bus after Burning Man, uh that's when I stayed in Grants, New Mexico. And I actually wrote a mo manifesto and uh wrote like kind of like what has been for me at least the foundational document to continue on and a reason to continue on.

Uh because it was it's uh seeing the humanity of others and and kind of building a a group based around the common denominator of humanity.

Is that uh exist. You have like a link or something where we can uh

Yeah,

I have a website. Yeah, I can we can talk about that later. I have a website and and um but it it was it was a way for me to deal with everything that was happening with Occupy Wall Street while being stranded

um and not able to actually participate because at the time I know I would have been there.

Mhm.

Uh I would have been in Austin on city hall. I would have been with my friends but being stranded in New Mexico, no ride kind of just trying to um get by with the the change we're finding in the in the bus, you know, to to find some where to park this bus or how to move it because um the way it broke down is the actual a CB joint or an um an axle broke or and the transmission literally fell out of the bus and kind of hit the ground. So, we would have to raise several thousand dollars to replace this this transmission. So, we had basically a shell of a bus. We were very fortunate to People of Grant, Mexico were very welcoming. I have only kind things to say about the people that I met there. The the tough truck people towed us next to their their lot,

let us use their bathroom as and and and their power. So, they were very very kind of kind to us and and so like seeing this humanity welcome us into seeing the conflict of humanity of like what's going on in and Occupy Wall Street at the time, that's where I was like there's got to be this middle ground and And that's where kind of like started reorient orienting ourselves to being a group of people that acknowledges humanity and that a lot of our common a lot of our issues can be solved with a common denominator of humanity.

Let's look at this from this perspective and move from there. So I can meet someone and give them the respect of of being a human being

and then from there whether our story um whether I lose or gain respect is the story that follows. from that.

Yeah. I mean, because it's like how often do you like, you know, I mean, forget about like looking at the news or seeing something on TV or or social media or what, but just like encountering somebody else, you know, who almost kind of like when you went to the Lanton court, you know, someone just like, "Who are you? What?" You know, and like I mean, we all just have these natural barriers up, you know, like once my wife and I were driving across country and, you know, I'm like 6 foot, she's like 411 and she has like fire engine red hair, you know, and I I have long hair, you know, and it was like in South Dakota or something. And so, uh, you know, we went into this like little podunk town and we went to this like restaurant like diner kind of thing or whatever. And, you know, every guy was wearing a cowboy hat and like, you know, there there was like two TVs and they were watching cops, you know, and then like during the show like no one was like eating they were just and then as soon as the commercials would come on that everyone would like eat. I mean, it was one of those things where it's like you open the door and it was like record scratch and then I was like, "Hi, everybody."

So, it's just like it's like I'm like a white guy. She's a white guy. They're all white people. But still, it's just it's like it's like it's like you didn't come to the wrong place, boy.

Yeah. Yeah. Natural natural things that people don't experience all the time.

Yeah. But again, it's, you know, it's like once you get and that's for to me like one of the beauties of Brett Man, it's like in the 10 principles like as I always describe it, it's like 10 principles is a recipe to kind of dissolve those barriers and so we can kind of realize our humanity. It's like, "Oh, you're a human. I'm a human. Oh my god, we're human together."

Yes. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. And Bernie man takes it further where you actually create together and collaborate together. So that's why I see it as it goes a step further because even in Grants, New Mexico. Yeah. Exactly that. Where um no one's ever seen anybody with long hair, guys with long hair except for the native But I don't I look too Mexican to be a native, but I'm look I look too light-skinned to be a Mexican, maybe. So I by the time I'm out there walking the street, everybody's kind of like, hm, who's

you're hurting my brain.

Yeah. Wow. So So you you guys still going back with the Mo community and the the MO bus and everything even this year?

So it's been it's been 15 16 years.

Wow.

Um we've had uh every the first six years or so we had um we had four in a row. Uh the first four years we did four trips um four four mo road trips

and then we took a break and then then I started going on my own a little bit. So it it's always been

uh the community of who's there. So we've actually had several iterations of the community.

And so these past uh the this year we just completed or this past burn we completed a three-year project uh uh through your Metropolis project coming out of San Antonio because I moved from Austin to San Antonio.

Uh and and I've always been kind of like the seed of Metropolis. Uh you know, Tony's gone off and moved to Chicago. He's, you know, married and just had his first child. Shout out to Tony. And Don John's been moved back to Chicago up to New York for a little bit. Now he's in Mexico as well, you know, being his creative artist self. And so we've we've had different iterations even in Austin and in San Antonio and around the burn community. So we did also go to many many regionals. We we took our camp to regionals as well. Um and so at one point we even had Interstellar Metropolis where we had uh a camp from uh we had people from San Antonio, Austin, and Corpus all come together uh to create one one large metropolis. U but this last iteration was a three-year project where we kind of were resettling on getting more Latinos out to Burning Man, getting more of the San Antonio culture.

Uh so, so not just Latinos, but the the the the San Antonio culture, which has always has like a bit of a Latino flare.

Uh so the first year, uh it was u myself and my girlfriend Tyler, we went out to kind of uh participate in uh to reparticipate in the Build a Seat project. So the year before I'd gone um to

I had gone in what four years ago to uh work on a black led art project led led by Mo Awesomebore, right? And and that's that's the beauty of Mo for me in my life. I had not gone to Burning Man and for for a couple for a year or two at that point

and I get a call from a gentleman named Mo

who tells me, "Hey, I was told by your friend that I that you need to be our lighting person."

And so Mo called me back to Burning Man

and uh we uh uh worked on and uh their art project with Build the Street, which was like a 12- foot tall table um that was built in order to bring to to give black the black burner community uh a table for them to bring a seat to.

And so I I worked on the lighting for that program, for that project. Um so it was a 12 foot tall table that you can walk around. It was a spiral staircase that you can walk up and at the top and see it.

Um and so yeah, that was that was a really epic project. And then they asked me to reprise the role to do the lighting and I came back the next year and that's where I started the project at Metropolis where uh I invited people to go out and um experience working on a large scale art project and kind of like scoping it out.

Then the next year um we came back and focused on working on a camp home camp. Uh so we we were officially register uh registered team camp and we created a solid home camp with u with the right people with the right setup like just finding out what we need to be solid

and we actually started experimenting with taking a labyrinth.

So um I have these aluminum expanding walls about 30 of them

and so that year we took it and did a test case of can this this structure survive along with this camp.

Yeah.

Right.

50 m hour.

Exactly. And it worked beautifully. It worked beautifully. camp stayed cuz that was the mud that was the mud apocalypse year

a couple years ago. Okay.

Where it was just like super muddy. But our our our home camps was worked great.

The the the the labyrinth uh structure worked great. So then the third year we made a bigger push to bring more people. We got more people in into the camp. We had about eight of us uh all come out and um the labyrinth was set up a lot more a lot earlier. And so now we have a a really solid home camp design with this an interactive uh installation

and um and that kind of concluded the three-year project. And so this year I'm taking a year off of going to Burning Man and then next year I'll reprise another three-year um project

and it'll just be kind of building on top of each other. So by the third year I either want to have like a mutant vehicle or um either be on esplanade or you know, some kind of other measurable achievement.

Yeah. Yeah.

By the end of it, and I want to continue to bring more San Antonians, uh, some more Chicanos, bring out more of that flavor. Uh, I work for a cultural arts center here in in San Antonio. So, I my life has been completely aligned to cultural and culture and humanity and and technology. I'm I'm also a technologist. So, that's mainly what I do is like uh all the production of lights, sound, technology, um, and and production itself. of getting the whole event together.

Well, how how have you noticed like since 2010 to now, you know, uh like the just the increasing diversity of of Burning Man, you know, just like from your perspective, I mean, like how do you see it?

That's a very good question. And I think it's very um it you say it's more diverse and and I tend to think it is always diverse um but At the same time, I feel like we're getting uh diverse in a way that maybe is not necessarily the diversity we're looking to in not not not looking to include, but I I hear more about um people having having their work trips out, you know, their their it's their retreat,

you know. I see more people going um in the interest of, you know, creating content. I see people and and it's more diverse because these people were not there, right? But I think the context in which they're going is less diverse and or not less diverse but kind of plateaued a bit because you're not seeing more people who wouldn't have gone or or in the context of like personal relationships or in the context of being there for the adventure or for the experience, you know. So, you're seeing a more homogenization of people being there for content for for vac ation for, you know, some kind of organizational

um reason, which is all great. I I I welcome it.

Mhm.

But it just kind of strikes me a funny way when you say it's getting more diverse, you know?

Well, just overall, but I don't know. I mean, perhaps like as I always kind of look at it is like maybe that's like the hook, you know, like there's some I don't know. There's probably a good proportion of people like all these years going to Britney man like they're they they where however they find out about it, they read about it or see something on social media or in media or something and it's just it's a spectacle, you know, and they're just like, "Oh, this is a big party. I want to go to that,"

you know, and then and then I what I always say it's like people come for the spectacle, but they come back

you for the community, for the family, you know, if if

they come back, you know, because I'm sure there's some a lot of people like that bucket list checked off, you know, I don't have to come back and do that ever again. Or like you said, like it's it's like, "Oh, my Silicon Valley company, it's just like the big boss. says like we have a camp and it's like and we got to go you know like okay and that always one always gets me see my my my approach has always been uh because we started with 20 people who were all virgins you know fresh never b gone before my approach has always been a way to bring people like have the camps that people have never gone can feel safe going so even recently we had a friend join us last year who deals with migraines and headach and was concerned, you know, like I don't know if I can go out there and I doubt she I don't think she would have gone on her own just, you know, by herself or with a friend or, you know, but by having a camp, we wanted to provide

support. Yeah. The support structure, the minimal amount of comfort and safety and security

to feel like they can participate. And so another part of the the the the project was we also volunteered. So we were a part of the We were part of the first peers uh groups a couple years ago. And peers is a program where they um uh send different participants out to different theme camps and kind of give them a questionnaire.

So we have a better sense of the the culture and how people how theme camps are are being placed and you know how they are do they feel like they're getting placed well.

And then we also volunteered at center camp and we provided a bar at center camp

and and and then we did art in art and then we did events in art camp. So I tell people that come with us,

come with us because you're going to get a full experience. Um so you can kind of then know what you want to do on your own,

right? So we'll give you a little taste, work on an art project. So one year was build a seat, one year was just peers, and then when then we always do the standard camp bar

because we want to give people responsibility. We want to we don't want to just sharper,

right?

Yeah. Yeah. We want to plug and play. Another thing, right, you have a lot of people that get sherpet out there and they're like the food's provided and they don't really there's no skin in the game.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, we make it so like we're going to make it easy for you to have some good skin in the game. So, you're going to have to haul all this booze

down to center camp, you know, or you're going to have to, you know, walk all the way down to 1:00 and and E to do this peers retreat or to do this peer survey.

But it's going to be part you're already volunteer, you're already integral to some part of the community.

Yeah. Yeah. So, how did um becoming a regional contact in San Antonio come about and what's uh what are you involved with that?

Well, uh I have always kind of uh been a burner evangelist in in a sense um getting my friends out to burns or to regional burns and stuff. So, I was very fortunate to have been u picked and And so I have uh an art studio out here in San Antonio, Texas, and we open every second Saturday of the month. And I've I've even been so I've always done kind of like little burner museum, burner talks. Um when we go to Burning Man, we'll we'll talk about us going to Burning Man. Sometimes it's a fundraiser. We always talk about the kind of the the idea behind it. Then we come back and we give a little report about how the Burning Man experience was. Trying to kind of get more and more people. So I have a large circle of people that always tell me, "Oh, one day I'll go, one day I'll go. One day I'll go." And I'm keeping it alive so that one that day when they decide to go, they can join.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And so it's it's been really uh good uh here in San Antonio, I think, to present a dichotomy to what's going on today,

you know, because

uh it would be nice if I if I could share more to people how um collaborative and how much is created at Burning Man. How how visions come to fruition through this collaboration through unique different uh individuals coming together who are practically strangers most of the time.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

And I want to show that here in San Antonio. Uh so we have had a regional burn uh called Alma Burn or a a kind of like a regional event that we're unofficial um that we did for for several years. Uh but then after the pandemic, we were always kind of trying to catch up. Uh and we had like one win one year where our total infrastructure was just decimated. Um so we we took a little bit of a h we've taken a hiatus. We taken a pause

and um we're going to kind of recover and build up community again and look at reprising it again. U but we actually when the e the eclipse passed through Texas the second time, it happened during

our event.

What was it called? Alma burn.

Yeah.

Wow. H

so soul burn.

Ah okay. How many people did you have?

Well before the pandemic we were approaching 500 people.

That's a good size. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um but then after the pandemic we were 100

150. Still a great size.

But we were but we were always working to catch up you know just in volunteers and getting our planning and all that stuff. So it was it you know

I always thought like size isn't really a great metric you know it's more quality over quantity you know I think sometimes people just focus on you know it's like bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger and then things fall apart you know

well well for us we did find that it was better to be around 100 150 um uh but it was the the we wanted the community we had a much because we had more people

the the ratio of volunteers and the ratio of people that were like being a part part of it was larger and that's kind of what we what we missed afterwards. We didn't have the same kind of like

um volunteers and the same kind of like um uh just energy behind putting it together.

Mhm.

All right. Well, uh I think I got to get together the second question. Uh we'll briefly we talk like well your background so your life before Burning Man. Have you always been uh you always lived in Texas? Were you born raised there or what's your story?

Yeah, son of San Antonio. Um

born and raised in San Antonio, Texas. Uh I lived kind of like a um a double life in a certain way with um going back going to Mexico, Montter Mexico.

Um every summer, every vacation I had growing up, I was I spend my time in Mexico, so I had I very much the the tie. And Montter and San Antonio are sister cities as well. So it kind of works out in that way.

Um so I had a lot of uh social energy in Mexico cuz I I grew up on a block where kids of all ages were

right and then in San Antonio it was more school and home because we were kind of you know afraid of gangs and being out and you know you don't want to go out and play outside or you just want to be careful

there was very prevalent you know we were just there was a lot of so was a a huge dichotomy for me between being very

uh introverted and very not just introverted but just very kind of a social you know not like a lot of friends going out

Mhm. was at least the way that they would in Mexico where people would just go knock on there, hey, come on, get go out to play, you know. Um, so I I I grew up in San Antonio in Mexico and then um I was always very into computers and a techn a technology person. So I went from being a box in the room to being my tool. So I was always the kid that was getting called out of class to go fix things for the principal and to go fix things for like the

administration's office like

Yeah. Yeah. And they're just like, uh, my computer is not working. Can you do something about it? And so uh and that kind of led to me being um asked to make a a news program for my um middle school. And so I developed I learned how to edit over Thanksgiving and I started producing a news program. So I got the sponsor, I told them what we needed, I found people to participate and we created a little news program and And from that, um, our school district was awarded like, uh, thousands of dollars in computers for every math, uh, literary class and science class.

And so from there, I I was asked to teach people how to edit. And so that's

audio you're talking about or like

No, video. Both video and audio. Yeah. Cuz we're producing a news a news program. And so

was it like local like cable access or something or

the closed circuit televisions in every class? Oh, really? You know. Yeah. So, every morning or every once a week we'd present uh Truman Middle School News, TMS News.

Ah, so in high school, you know, as the producer then

Yeah. Cuz uh from there they asked me to teach my peers how to video edit. So, I actually started teaching in high school my peers during the summer and I and I uh the first year I had a teacher assistant. The second year I had um uh no teacher, just an just uh myself teaching the class and by the third year I had 40 students and four assistants where I'd give a lecture in one class while the other class did the assignment and then I'd switch classes and the class would do an assignment and then I would give the lecture in the other class.

Wow. My god. And you were still a student at the school?

Yes.

I should have paid you.

I did. I was get I was paid. Oh, really?

So that's why that's why I say my professional career started in high school and middle and like at the kind of uh the summer between uh middle school and high school. So I have because of that that started my production career and I have about 26 years of production under my belt.

So did you just go like straight into the industry or did you like go to college or like

I went to UT and I um my first my first gig there was at PBS

and um I had told them my background and they said do you want to do audio or video

and I had no clue at the time what this job was going to be.

Mhm.

Uh so it was like the the the title was MCVT OP and it was a work study position.

I'm like, okay, I don't know what that is, you know. So, I go and this guy in flip-flops, you know, intro shows up in Hawaiian t-shirt and and he tells me, "Hey, you know, ask me about my background." He says, "Do you want to do audio or video?" I'm like, "Well, I learned video very well. I should learn audio." Best decision of my life. Uh because it turns out he's like, "Oh, yeah. Well, we we shoot um Austin City Limits here, so you'll be able to work your we work at Austin City Limits. is your work study. Uh, here's two free tickets to the Flaming Lips. And

okay,

that was my first month at school, my first job out of high school.

And so I I I worked for 10 years PBS.

Yeah, I worked for 10 years at PBS and uh did at least over 50 episodes of Austin City Limits. I work audio and listed and credited in IMDb.

Um, even less than I actually did.

Wow. So, you still work uh for PBS? or what do you what do you think?

No, now I work for the Guadalupe Cultural Arts Center here in in San Antonio, Texas. And we're a multid-disciplinary uh cultural arts center. We're one of the leading Latino cultural centers in the country.

Uh we do um uh theater. Uh we do uh dance. Uh we have both an academy and a dance company. We have a music academy uh and that's attached to a very popular um music mariachi company.

And then we also have a bookstore. So, it's a nine building campus and I'm the director of technology. So, I work all the programs, make sure every everything that they need that's techreated is cared for and um I've done that for about six years now.

Wow. Wow. That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you.

All right.

Work in the arts.

Well, I think we should get around to our last question. The impact and influence of Bernie man on your life.

I think um it really defined for me uh an approach towards a way of living. Like I I still stand by the art of ecstatic living because I think that was inspired through my experience at Burning Man that we can have a life worth living that can be fun even if it's hard, even if it's rough.

Uh even if there's challenges,

yeah.

Yeah. There's this the overcoming of these challenges.

Without gravity, you don't develop muscles, right? I mean like 100. Yes. Very very true.

So when do you say ecstatic? What do you mean by ecstatic community?

Well, ecstatic to me is kind of like um you know there the the definition has to do with more of the divine. You know the connection to the divine and this just kind of ecstatic you know think of the Sufi um whirling dervishes where they're spinning around and you know they just reach elevated ecstatic states of like almost like translated states. Um that there's something there's a spiritual component to it for me where It's kind of like soul nourishing. So that's actually one of my beliefs in my business and my approach and everything I do is that um uh so that experience is nutrition for the soul.

Mhm.

And by having certain experiences, you feed it different things. You know, sometimes you need an angry experience because that's just like the the vitamin that you need that you know, you need to express that anger otherwise you're going to blow up, you know. So it doesn't necessarily mean that one particular experience is the way. But having that kind of ecstatic is is just like that connection to that spiritual sense of self

and a higher power if you will for some um but or a higher self, your own higher self that there are heights to your experience as well

and that you can elevate your experience to heights.

Yeah, I like that. It's funny because I mean like in terms of like you know going to to Burning Man or regional events or whatever, you know, it's like this this this whole concept of, you know, our connection and or, you know, like reaching these like like ecstatic heights. I mean, yeah, I think it is part of it. It's like, you know, like your your your hero's hero quote unquote hero's journey like with the bus like you drive a thousand miles so they break it down like strangers from like all over the world. But it's like, yeah, I mean, who would think, you know, just like I want to get to this like, you know, transcendent ecstatic state, you just it's like, yeah, it's not all just like you know psychedelics and flowers like

sometime it's eating a taco that's been cooking for with brisket that's been cooking for 24 hours

in the desert.

In the desert.

Well, also nothing tastes as good as like when you're in the desert and you're camping and you're like having slept and you're just like this peanut butter and jelly sandwich with old bread is the best thing I've ever had, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And and it's just to think, you know, I have brisket tacos all the time, but there's some when you like do that much and create this situation for yourself that you get to appreciate it that much more

and it doesn't have to be in the desert.

That's what I love about regionals as well,

you know, because there's a sense of that and and and when you're like working to create this experience with each other, with your community and and you come together to create this a platform for experience and then to actually have those experiences,

it can be just as rewarding. Uh so I that's why I see like Burning Man has inspired um me to continue even at home, you know, and regionals I think are a big part of that.

Are well you said you you've been to a couple other regionals. It's like uh any interest in like traveling around or even like around the world like seeing any others going other places?

I do. Uh I take I'm taking the year off from Burning Man this year because I want to cross the pond for the first time. I've I've never left the continent. Um, so I I I I know that Burning Man Burning Man has always been indicative of my well-being. So when I don't come back broke and homeless, I'm good. I It's like I'm doing pretty good.

But it's still doesn't it still hasn't afforded me the ability to also travel the world, right?

So I've been doing that for a good while. So I'm going to take a break this year,

go somewhere across the ocean, and then come back. Um, and maybe I can do a burn while I'm around, you know, while I'm not focusing on either hosting burn or going to a burn. Maybe I can do like a sunburn has called my interest.

Um uh I know there's

plenty uh I know love burn is happening right now. Uh you know

peace and love to all those who are out there.

Uh just so I do see myself traveling and seeing other burns as I kind of like situated in my life. You know I just opened up a new bar myself

uh and um working on other being more consistent with events in my art space. to kind of cultivate that community.

Uh so this is actually the first year where I have a year of

scheduled dates.

Yeah.

Instead of like I don't know what I'm doing in two weeks.

Yeah. But that's also the other thing about I mean I've known people who like I've been going to Birdie May for like 30 years like like every single except for like 2020 or 21 but even then there was like oh I went to Renegade Burn or whatever. You know it's you can take time off. Like for me I took years off and I came back, you know, it's like I mean I to raise my son who's now like going to be going off to college this year again reason. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's why like I I'm actually not going to make it back to the play again this year cuz I was like ah I have to drop him off at school. But you know it's like life does intrude and like I said like there are other experiences you know it's like you can and and also just as time goes by it's just like it's it's it's becoming a bigger and bigger sacrifice, you know, to to actually make it up to the play.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, tickets are what, $775 now or something.

Yeah.

But

and and that's why I think they it's imperative for us who feel the flame of the burn

to uh bring it to wherever it makes sense to us.

Mhm.

Because we should not let uh the experience be not gatekept but be be solely found in one spot in the country, you know, that that that shouldn't be like the way I get my burn experience.

Yeah. Well, I mean, like many people have been talking about, it's kind of like a a culture or an evolving kind of culture. I mean, I see it as more of like it's neither either or. It's like it's not just Black Rockck City or just the regionals or people saying like, "Oh, there's more activity like there's more people going to regionals than they're going to Bernie man." And like it's like it is or Black Rockck City is like Black Rock City just kind of just just fall off the edge of the earth and then like everything will just be regionals like I think it's kind of a mixture of both and I think in order to have like a healthy community it's like you you kind of need to have both you know

and I say more like beyond the regionals should regionals are culminations

regionals and Burning Man I see them as culminations they're like the conferences right but everything that happens at these places could be happening in third spaces can be happening you know for events I do see the value of the principles in uh commodified events because even even if

it's throughout the I don't think they should be at the culminations

but I think um in commodified events there should be the rest of the principles

you know to kind of c to cultivate the culture

you know and we should see it in our in our homes in our communities you know plan events at gardens, even little like little sparks of it all.

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's beautiful. All right. Well, a little over an hour and 15 now. Uh, anything else? Uh, oh, yeah. So, do you have you said you have a website? Yeah. Uh, it's jlg vii.com and that's my personal website and that's that's the the gateway to like the Metropolis website. And so there's also metropolis.

Um but you can find all those different ones including like uh links to the cultural arts center at my website.

Okay.

Yeah. Um um do you know when this is going to come out?

Ah let's do this is episode 60. So for everyone we're recording this on Saturday, February 7th. Uh Loveurn is happening right now. Uh oh no. This is episode 60. That will be April 27th.

Cool.

Yeah.

So, by then I'll definitely have things um well arranged and for people to kind of like find whatever I talked about and and uh links to all the things that I' I've been discussing.

So, the Metropolis won't is that going to happen this year without you or

uh my uh our dear friend Skills uh had mentioned it but we just missed the deadline to to to do it

because I was so I was so dead set that I'm taking the year off that

that we kind of missed the deadline for this one, but we're still in good standing.

Uhhuh.

Um and so we'll reprise it next year. So we're open to having uh participants from wherever if they want to join us. Um our focus is really

How big is Metropolis anyway? How many people?

Uh we're only eight people um at the camp.

Uhhuh.

Um but over the years and over the couch surf We've had hundreds of people that can at least say they've either been to a party, they've experienced something, they know

camp like like on the Black Rock City, like how many people would you have camping with you? Was it just eight or

we we try to go for 20? But it it just um it every year's been different, right? So none of the only one person

um my my dear friend Angus who is um Colonel Angus, shout out to him. He's been there at different iterations, right?

As opposed some people There's always been different iterations and mostly new people. Uh that's why if they were if all the camp mates were to come together and do one camp,

we'd probably have like 60 people

at 20 20

and then like another three and then another five, you know.

Yeah. Well, it's funny cuz um it's like you got to do a reunion, you know. But uh No, cuz I I made this little logo like the the graduated thing with you with the

with the hat. That's the Well, cuz cuz I I'm a alumni regional contact and so when it went back in 24 I was like I want to like meet up with some of my fellow alumni and I was just like where do fellow alumni meet and I was just like

alumni reunion why not come on you know so then they made this like sticker and they made some like t-shirts and then like it's funny cuz like ever since then people like was just like where did you get that shirt like everybody like wants it or like the DPW people who like we've been doing for years it's like they're retired ing and was like, "Here, give that to them." And they're just like in tears like my graduation t-shirt.

I know. Shout out to DPW. They're such hard workers.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much. This has been a wonderful interview.

Thank you. I appreciate the the time to be able to speak.

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