EP 68 Twan

Episode 68 with Twan is out now! Meet Twan, a veteran Burning Man participant and the long-reigning former Los Angeles regional contact. Twan recounts the organic evolution of the global burner community before the advent of social media, detailing how disparate groups transitioned from unorganized email lists into the official regional network under the Burning Man umbrella. Twan explains his deep involvement with Pepe Ozan’s legendary operas, highlighted by a rigorous voodoo initiation in Haiti undertaken to ensure the artistic authenticity of the 1999 performance. His story explores the ethos of participation and collaboration, tracing his journey from organizing massive decompression events in Los Angeles to his current volunteer work with the Playa Restoration team, which maintains the event's "Leave No Trace" commitment.

http://www.burningmanopera.org/

IG: @burningtwan

Please visit https://shadowoftheman.buzzsprout.com/ for all of the details and links.

Email shadowofthemanpodcast@gmail.com if you want to be a guest or if you have any concerns about the show.

Please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, it REALLY helps the show to even appear in search results.

Transcript

Before we start, I would like to ask your help to do two things. First, tell a friend or two who you think might like the show. And second, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. The more reviews the show gets, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Thank you, and now on to the show. 

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama b**** b**** b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. a burning man up and out. So sit back, relax and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man. 

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I am your host Andy. That famous movie star. No, that Andy. Today our guest is Twan, the one and only the Yes, welcome.

I can speak.

You can speak now.

Hey. Hello. Hello. Hello.

So, Twan, were you you were were you the first or one of the first like regional contacts from

the first regional? You know what? It's interesting now that I'm here talking to you. Uh I wonder if I should use people's names before having talked to them previously, but there's a woman.

Well, but I mean I won't give her real name, but the name she used it was Hurricane Linda.

Uhhuh.

Uh was the first regional LA and

like official like from like

Yeah. Official. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And uh like like when Burning Man finally uh changed their servers and gave all the regionals a burningman.com uh address. So she was laurning.com uh the first that and um but before that happened we before Burning Man took over those uh those uh list serves

the community around the whole world was organically cropping up.

And so when was this Like what year?

Well, it was like 97. It was my first year. And I uh after people came back from Burning Man 1997, this just kind of organically happened around the world is like

people started realizing that they when they get back to their hometowns, they still they wanted to hang out with other burners.

And so all these uh people just started randomly like without like there wasn't a memo that went out. Yeah.

Just people randomly around around the country and around the world started creating our own uh like u community- based list serves uh uh discussion email lists

and uh and so we had a guy named uh uh Mayor Jim he was the first mayor of Gigsville Gigsville which is like one of the first early

villages at at Burning Man LA based village at Burning Man and he was known as the the mayor of Giggsville and uh he set up a uh a list surface called it was at hitchhiker.com I don't think it exists anymore but But um so it was that first then it moved over to topica.com which was a list serve web-based list sererve uh website. Um and then uh Burning Man decided that they want to fold all these organically grown regionals under their umbrella.

This was like email lists.

Yeah, it's correct. Correct. Yeah, email list. And this is long before social media kind of took things over.

Uh so I don't know how popular email lists are these days. I don't really use them.

Not these days, you know.

Email's kind of an annoyance, you know, but um uh yeah, so Hurricane Linda was running that list. She was also part of Giggsville

and I was going to be part of Giggsville

and and uh I ended up meeting Pepe Ozan, the late great Pepe Ozan, who's the first man to bring to bring large art to the Playa.

Mhm. And uh I had met up fortuitously with uh Pepe and I got whisked away to Pepe's Burning Man Opera, which are legendary. Um which was more my kind of thing to do.

And so I didn't join up with the Gigsville people, though I became friends with all of them for the most part.

Um

but this is after you first started because you your first year was what 97?

97. But this pretty quickly after 97 this All happening before 98, you know. So, uh,

so how did you hook up with Pepe? Because you were in at home in LA.

Yeah.

Right. And so, like, how did you hook up with him there? Outside of

serendipity, man. It's unreal. I've been really lucky in my life in general, uh, because anything that I found a deep interest in, something that gave me real great pleasure, um, the doors to the inner circle would always seem to open up. like I I was into like auto racing. I still am like Formula 1 racing and all that.

And uh in the early 90s, late 80s, I end up hooking up with a indie car racing team run by, you know, Enzo Ferrari's greatgrand nephew uh Antonio Ferrari owned the team and I ended up traveling around the country with the team and

it's like it's kind of like being on on a on tour with a rock band, you know? Yeah.

It was super fun. But the point is I was a big fan of that kind of world and then next thing I know No, I'm meeting all the movers and shakers in that world. The door opens to the inside of that world. When I went to Burning Man my first year,

I uh I was just a participant there, but very very quickly after that, the doors just start opening and and uh

I you know, I took those opportunities that kind of happened with meeting Pepe.

Well, how did you even like hear Bernie man? Like like what actually got you to go in the first place?

Well, I was deeply involved with uh the LA underground party scene.

Uhhuh.

Starting in the early like starting 1990.

Okay.

And starting about 1992, maybe 93 through that world, that party world, underground party world in LA and elsewhere, uh I I would hear about this this crazy event called Burning Man, uh way out in the Nevada desert, and it sounded fantastic, but I didn't know that much about it. And to me, it sounded like, oh, it's another rave in the desert. And in Southern California, we were already having all kinds of desert parties like the Moon Tribe Collective, which is still goes on now. Full moons. Moon Tribe goes out to the desert. They've got a loyal following. It's been going on for decades now.

And so I was already going to these desert parties. And uh so I thought, well, why am I going to go all the way to northern Nevada to go to a desert rave? I'm already doing it. I'll go someday.

But had I known what I was missing

and what it was really about, I would have started going back in 93. Then in 96, I had a really good friend call me. He was on his way uh to Burning Man. He says, "Dude, you got to come to this thing." And uh I had work going on and stuff and and I and I came so close to going. And that's my one big regret, not going to Burning Man 96, which you did.

Yeah. The last like kind of crazy uncontrolled year.

That's right. No rules. They had the drive by shooting range. It was total recklessness.

Dogs, cats, guns. Yeah. And uh so I I really I I hate that I missed that, but I knew about the opera, Pepe's opera, my friend Mike came back from that and he said, "Oh my god, I saw this thing out there. It was tried to explain it to me. It's really fascinating story." So the next year when I finally did go and as soon as I got there, I knew it's like, "Oh yeah, this is my place, you know, this is this is where I belong." I just felt completely organically suited to that place.

And so uh Uh, I made a point to see the opera, which back then the opera was a big thing. Everyone knew the night that the man was burning and the night before the man burned at midnight was Pepe's Burning Man Opera.

So, it was like everyone knew about these two events. Now, I think the event is so huge and there's so much going on that if the opera was happening now, it wouldn't be such a big deal as it was back then.

Well, because back then is like the man burned on Sunday. That's right. Like there was no temple. The man burned on Sunday.

So, we were doing the opera on Saturday. night at midnight just like prime time. It was awesome.

But also way back when it's like Brady M was basically just like a long weekend.

Yeah.

Like it wasn't really like

I think in 97 my first year I think it was five days.

Yeah.

Not sure.

But uh anyway, I saw the opera that night and I was like and then I found out that anybody that goes to Burning Man, if you want to be part of the opera, you can. You just go to the opera camp. It was called Tower Camp because Pepe was known for building these towers.

Lingums, right? Yeah.

The lingums. Yeah, he built these towers and um uh you can see it on still it looks like it was built in 1994 the burning manopera.org or if you go do it'll take you to the.org website burningmanopera.org

uh website and you could see you know there's all this historical stuff like Pepe's old um uh 1993 Lingham's you know he just made these tall towers that he'd set on fire and in 1996 he decided to turn it into a quote unquote opera So he just had a bunch of his San Francisco friends get together. He wrote some sort of script around it and he built this giant stage which is just this amazing work of art so that the participants can enjoy it all week. And then the night of the opera, Saturday night, at that time, Saturday night at midnight, they had these crazy performances that would blow people's minds and um they'd burn it and he'd have all these towers and got fire shooting up through the towers and then eventually the towers fall over and everyone loves it, you know. So

they were using a technology ever like like for making their stages and also they had like these like sculptures and stuff that were surrounding like on it like these gargoyle kind of

Oh yeah. Yeah. That was 1998. Uh well no in 96 he had gargoyle. He's always got faces. It's true. But 98 he had these um they were sculptures based on he was fascinated. Pepe was fascinated with the Hindu culture. He spent a lot of time in India just for inspiration and stuff for artistic uh uh uh uh inspiration he got from it. But he built these um like uh you know Shiva and these these poses these classic Indian poses but he put big insect heads on them. They and they were this alien uh this alien

but how they built them was really cool. Like it was basically a metal mesh.

Yeah.

And then they they covered it in like imply like ply mud. Is that

Yeah. They go to Fly Hot Springs. Uh uh back then you know Burning Man now owns the Fly Hot Springs and uh it's like a conservation area. It's really cool what they've done there. But back in the day, it was owned by a a family and Pepe knew a guy there. Uh and um they had a friendship and the the guy gave Pepe the key to the gate. So we'd go out early to build Pepe's temple stage.

Yeah.

And at the at the hottest part of the day, we would hop in his truck, drive down to the fly hot springs, and unlock the gate. And we had the fly hot springs all to ourselves, but it was also to, you know, to relieve ourves. was in the water, but it was also to uh we had all these like five gallon buckets, like hundreds of them, and

we would all be in there just filling them up full of mud. We'd bring them back to the playa, and then we would mud

the uh the mesh.

And then when uh when it would dry, it dries, it cracks like the pia ground. So, it looks like this organic structure growing out of

out of the out of the dust. It's pretty cool.

Well, we'll get to ply restoration later. Yeah. Like Like how do you something like a metal mesh that you put like uh mud on it, it dries, and then you light it on fire with wood underneath it and like get around it. Like what is the clean up with that? Like

it's big. Yeah. And back and back then we didn't, you know, now they use uh I think it's called denatured um

Oh, deed granite.

Like they put that under the mand it won't leave a burn scar.

Yeah. Decomposed granite.

Decomposed or Yeah. Yeah. Decompos or denature something. Whatever it is, I don't know. Um,

back then it wasn't that, but we'd have to do the cleanup oursel and and uh often times you know it was just a big metal uh it's all bent and you know and and broken and we'd have to pull out the blow torches and cut them into pieces and throw them on the truck.

And would you like with like hammers to get like all the mud like or or like the dry like or caked on play?

No, not really.

Yeah,

it would just have come off by then.

Yeah. And I I think it just becomes part of the the playa again.

It's not like fired like It's now pottery or something.

No, no, I don't I don't recall any of that. No, no, but it was a big cleanup. Yeah. Afterwards. Yeah.

Definitely don't do that these days.

Yeah. But it was pretty great.

So, uh to get back to your question about, you know, how uh uh how I became the regional and all that. So, but when I met Pepe, oh, you said you asked how I I met him, right?

Yeah. In LA. Like outside of Bring Man, right? So,

it's an interesting there's so many connections uh in and you know, it's a bunch of concentric circles intertwined, right? So, so um uh my good friend who I met at my first burn and we're still good friends today is is DA and DA is in charge of plier restoration. It's an important

job at Burning Man. And uh DA after 97 we became friends. We met there became friends and uh uh should I tell this story of You know how that happened?

Well, how you met DA in9?

Yeah, like I was there with a girlfriend. Uh, and uh I brought all these uh nail polishes. Not that that I'm a big nail polish guy, but I went to garage sales before Burning Man that year and I I bought all kinds of random stuff and I bought I found these these nail polishes.

So, apparently DA walked by my camp and noticed all these nail polishes and made a note to self, I got to go talk to those people later and see if I could borrow some of their nail polish. Yeah. He was a young guy, 24. or 25 years old at that time.

Mhm.

And uh so a little while later, she and I were hanging in the camp and he he came by was a guy named I don't know why I remember these names. His name is Leighton.

And Leighton later formed a band called Odd AWD that played all around San Francisco and they played at Burning Man. Uh they were great band, man. Odd. But anyhow, uh DA and and uh Leighton showed up and he said, "Hey, I I was walking by earlier and I saw all those nail polishes. I saw a color I like. It be okay if I used it and and we're like, "Yeah, sit down and join us." So, the four of us sat down and and put nail polish on and and we we've been friends ever since. So, but now he's he's you know, over the years he's got this really important job. I mean, pier restoration is a big thing. That's a whole separate.

We'll get to that later.

Right. So, he um

uh because we we exchanged information, he said, "Hey, I'm going to be moving to LA." And I said, "Okay, Awesome. So, he does that and while he's traveling across the country from New Jersey, he's calling me up. We're talking to each other about, you know, where he's going to land. And it turns out he's he's moving into a house with a girl named Christine uh still a good friend

who was part of the opera in those early days.

Okay.

And uh he moved in with her and it just happened to be right down the street from my house.

And they called me one day and said, "Hey, we're going to like this spoken word kind of artsy thing at a art gallery in East Hollywood. would you like to come? And they said, "Yeah, I'll I'll drive."

So I picked them up and they have a guy named Christopher Fueling uh with them. And uh so we get talking about Bernie man stuff, you're all excited about that because it's all still new too, you know.

And I said to Christopher and all of them, I said, you know, I I'm going back next year, but I'm going to be part of that opera. I don't know what capacity, but I found out anyone who wants to be part of it can be part of it. So I'm I'm going to Tower Camp next year, and I'm going to be part of that. Christopher says, "Oh, without without like showing me or telling me the level of his involvement at that point, he goes, "Oh, you should we should exchange information. I could I could help you if you want to get involved with the opera. I could help you out with that." I'm like, "Okay, great."

So, the next week he calls me and says, "Hey, so I'm going up to San Francisco uh to Pepe's house and uh wondering if you you said you want to be part of the opera. Wondering if you'd like to come along." And which blew my mind because I knew about

Pepe

and and I saw the opera and I've heard about that's legendary opera performances and and uh so I always thought, you know, if I ever meet this guy Pepe, I just want to shake his hand and thank him for doing what he's doing and encourage him to keep doing it because it's the coolest thing on the planet. But I'm I'm going to his house,

you know? So it's like, yeah, I want to go to his house for a couple days, right?

And so I go up there with Christopher and Da and and Christine, four of us piled in the car. We stayed up at his house. house for 5 days. By the time we're driving back to LA, I I I became producer of the opera.

Not the like, you know, with Pepe and and Christopher uh he had performed in the 1997 opera and and and and convinced Pepe to to part let him partner with Pepe for the next year's opera as a co-writer and co-director of the opera with Pepe. And um so he had that going. Pepe agreed to it. Pepe was like a very open person like and but you know, you had to kind of pro prove yourself to him to he's just he didn't suffer fools you know and uh

and uh so that was pretty mind-blowing you know but you know when I first went up there Pepe had already made all the almost all the sculptures for the 1998 opera were were u uh completed

and uh he had already drawn the poster he made a poster for that year's opera and he at the at the bottom he's fil in all the names of credits at that point, but this is like within the first or second day of being at his house.

And I hadn't assumed the producer role yet. So I said, "Well, you know what could I what could I do? How could I uh fit in here?" And he says, "Uh oh, I remember the guy's name now. Jason Norelli. He was a body painter on Pepe's previous operas. So he was listed as a body painter. And Pepe says, "Oh, we're going to have so many performers. You should join up with Jason and and be be a body painter." So I said, "Okay, great. So, in the credits on that poster, it just says Tuan and Jason Nurelli, body painters. But within the next few days of being at his house and and you know, I've got a long background in motion picture business. I had a I had a production company. I produced a movie. I produced a fence. I was involved with LA's underground club scene. I knew how to organize and do things.

And when that became more and more apparent, uh, I kind of just slipped into a more of a producing role, which I remained in that role from 1998 until the last opera of 2002. So those were some like peak peak years. So so so that story been been told going back to like the regional thing

and uh I was I was meeting at the Docweiler Beach which is like the only beach in Southern California that still allows fire on it.

So we would the burner community would would meet there and uh they were organizing all that Gigsville you know

they're going to be this the

the uh the nent to Gigsville.

So Giggsville is like one of the first like pretty much

one of yeah one of the first I can't say the first but I think there were villages before but uh and they're big in a village at Burning Man are a bunch of camps themed like small theme camps within a larger camp

so it's Gigsville and has all these separate

I guess nowadays they call them hubs or something

oh yeah I don't I don't

I'm not sure what the difference between a hub and a village is like I think

I don't know maybe it's just semantic kind I think the hub the idea that like It's like a number of camps that share like some resources. Yeah.

You know, so like oh let's just get like one big generator and between these four camps like you know we'll kind of share that or like oh you water great water or you know solar panels shared duties.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think but like a village I think was more of kind of like it was like an opt in you know it's just like oh we're like five theme camps from LA and we hang out during the rest of the year doing this and that. It's like oh we're all going to go together and like like you know convoy up together. or or share whatever resources.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. And they they had like uh they were given a large plot of land because there's going to be a bunch of separate camps within there. And in the middle of that plot, they have like a plaza and they had the the the famous barbecue.

They would bring they bring an old burnout car and they just fill it with wood and and so the carbbecue would always be on fire in the middle of the camp.

Were they actually cooking on it or

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they cooked.

Maybe a little toxic.

I don't know. It could be a little toxic.

But does who I was interviewing someone recently who had talked about the carbecue and um I think Mama Crunchy.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Crunchy was part of that whole world. Yeah.

And she was just like, "Yeah, you know, people actually called like fire and and like the rangers said like there's a car on fire."

Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then like Yeah.

Well, cuz then somebody might throw some magnesium or there's something in there. What's that stuff that burns really bright? You know,

do you remember? Okay. I think it was in 97. I think it was 97. Maybe it was 98 or something. But like Someone brought I think it was like a an engine casing. It was like something like either like VW or Porsche. It was like a magnesium.

Right. Right. And the thing just burns like white hot.

Well, they dug a hole in the plya and this was like somewhere like 7:30 or 8:00 and like in the esplanade like what we would call it, but it was 97. It was kind like wonky the layout. But yeah, someone had dug dug a a a hole and put that in and then burned it. And I remember being like a couple of blocks blocks away with like multiple like structures and things in the way and like and we were basically blinded.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

It was that

it's super bright.

It was like not even like directly looking.

It's like sunlight. You're looking directly at the sun. Yeah.

Yeah. It's it's something else.

I mean you're talking about just like a little flare like hanging from some parachute. It's like wow that's bright. Like this was an entire like

it's a engine block.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like a VW I don't remember the car but yeah

I don't know how they put that if they just like bulldoze some like playa like onto it, you know, just bury it. It was like it'll go out, you know, like

Yeah. back, you know, that none of that kind of stuff happens now. I mean, it's way more uh

uh controlled and uh and rightfully so. You know,

you don't want to go destroying the desert.

Yeah. So, you go to 97 98 be part of the opera. I mean, so you come back to LA like

Yeah. So, I became instead of Gigsville, I become uh part of the opera and producing is more my kind of thing anyway. So, that was just like right up my alley. Plus, having seen the opera, I was just like, I couldn't believe my good fortune. It's like, f***, not only am I involved in this opera, I'm, you know, I mean, I did all the crazy stuff. Well, I I'll tell you when we went to Haiti, uh, a little bit later, okay, for the 1999 opera, which is based on voodoo,

and we went to Haiti for that. I'll let me tell you what we did there. That's a mind-blower.

But, uh,

uh, but anyhow, um,

uh, I was still meeting up with all the Gigsville people because they were all burners and we'd still have these gatherings and even though I was now part the opera and I wasn't going to be so enscconced with uh uh Gigsville.

Okay.

And uh but there were, you know, my LA community and and so I'd still go there. And and this is also really weird because I'm not like an internet IT guy or anything, but no one put the opera online. We had all these like computer people on our on our team and and also there was no like uh uh back then everything was done with like uh email lists.

Yeah.

So I went to Jim um uh King the mayor of Gatesville

and said, "Hey, could you set me up with the for the Burning Man Opera for the list?" And at one point we had 1,200 subscribers on that. Uh and um uh so I was running that list and and still hanging out with Gigsville and uh Hurricane Linda was the first regional,

okay,

at that time. And um I think she wanted could go and start a family, have a kid or something, and wanted to pass the baton. And because I think I we'd have to talk to her to get confirmation of this, but I think that she came to me and said, "Hey, would you want to be the next

regional for LA?" And I think it's because I was already managing large groups of people and stuff and uh she thought I'd be a good candidate and I said, "Yeah, sure." I mean, and she she I guess did what she did, pitched it to the or they said, "Yeah, okay, cool." And then I became from 19 that was June of 19 9. I stayed the regional in LA from uh June of 99 till September of uh 2006. I think I might be the longest reigning regional. Uh there might be maybe Widget, old friend Widget might still be one of the regionals came that came after me. Maybe he's been longer. Maybe Topless Deb, I think she still might be one of the regionals. Maybe they've they've surpassed my seven and a quarter year tenure.

But in terms of regional context, lasted. I mean, there's been a number of people who like I mean, I was 10 years.

You did 10 years in in in here.

I wonder like if there's any

by the way, we're here at at Andy's lovely home on the north shore of Hawaii while the gnarly storm is blowing through.

Yeah. So, it if the sound is a little bit different, a little bit of an echo. Yeah. Yeah. This is actually the very first uh live interview. Oh, really?

Other than those the shadow shorts like out on the PL, you know, but uh no, for like a regular like long form like most of interviews. I just do like on Zoom.

First interview done at your house.

Yeah. First interview.

Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love being here. You know, I'm I'm SoCal based, so it's nice being in Hawaii right now. And And Andy, if you don't know, was was the was the Hawaii regional. You say 10 years you were the regional.

10 years.

Damn. Yeah. Yeah. It's like 2002 2012, something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Good times.

Yeah. Well, back to you as chef. It's not about me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Twan show today.

Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah. So, roughly like late9s. Did you become as like the regional contact?

Well, I had dual duties. I was I was totally in Wisconsin Pepe's opera and at the same time in 1999 becoming the LA regional. So, I had double duties, you know, and um let's see. So, one of my primary objectives was to set up a like a proper LA decom, you know, like San Francisco had their de uh their their their Burning Men decompression parties. Uh you know, the month after Burning Man ends. And

uh there were some other regions like a big region was uh in Texas, uh Austin, Texas, I believe.

Yeah. Flip side.

Uh George Pap and and his partners and they they did Burning Flip Side, which was, you know, I' I've never been and I always wanted to. I've heard it was just absolutely fantastic. Have you been to that one? No.

Yeah. Yeah. So Um uh so I I I wanted to do that and the org uh would like to see that happen but they're not forcing you know like hey make it happen you know but and so it took three years and instead uh uh I just couldn't see the right situation and it's like where's the money going to come from Burning Man's not giving the regions money financial help or or you know so it's kind of up to the region to figure out how to do that and and so um but we had so many disperate uh groups of artists and creators and and just interesting people, music makers spread throughout LA. It's huge city obviously. Oh yeah.

And a lot of those people see I I found myself in a very unique position as the regional because I'm kind of up on a plateau overlooking the land and there's all these groups that don't even necessarily know about each other and I'm like well because I'm in this position now I'm getting to talk and talk to meet many many different people and groups of people and I get invited to a little event they're having or they're building some art and they want me to come see it and support it any way I can. And so I'm meeting all these people and I start thinking, you know what, those folks over there need to hook up with them or that person from that group needs to meet so- and so from that group, you know, and um and so uh and through the email list uh and also being the sole uh regional, which is like LA's now got 10 regional context, and I was the sole regional context. So, it was kind of, but luckily I I had my finger on the pulse of what Burning Man's about. I was big on on that ethos and uh and to spread that around and also just I I know how to have fun, you know, I spent my whole life doing that, you know, and and part of having fun is inviting other people into it, like, you know, who who could be your your your co-conspirators, you know, and so um

all all these different groups would would start having like parties and uh like uh the D lab for example which is now have created so three brothers and some other partners uh uh had created uh they were known as the D lab

and they now have and have had for a long time now many years now is uh lightning in a bottle which is like one of the preminent festivals of the world people come from all over the world to go to that festival and it's fantastic but they started these three young brothers in LA throwing oftentimes illegal warehouse parties and I would go to those parties

because before I promote something I need to go see it see if it it's right for the community for me to spread the word about it and it was totally

they did it in the opposite way of the fire festival is that what you're saying

oh the fire like no they started with the promotions and then only after they like collected the bunch of money they all fell apart

oh wait a minute we need to find a place to do it now Right. Right. But no, but Doolab, it was like their DOLAB parties were just uh awesome and it was like and they're all burners and uh and and they had that right attitude and so I started promoting those those parties. So

and and uh I had like 5,000 at one point like before I left there was 5,000 people on that LA all on the LA list.

And um so if you're a party promoter and you're like from the Burning Man world and uh had that vibe. Um, who else do you want at your party? But other a whole bunch of other burners. So, I helped get burners to people's parties, you know,

and uh there was like this the the uh the space u the space wench uh which was the space wench is was the name of a art car. It's like a big a pirate ship that I can't remember now. Oh, space island. That was where they that was where they all built their art. A bunch of artists living together and uh and they would throw the these these awesome parties and um and were represented on the ply year after year. They're there just they're they're just great. So the whole community was just all coming together,

right? And um but we didn't have a proper decom yet and I couldn't see where or how to do it or how to fund it. I I'm not made of money so I I'm not going to fund it myself.

Yeah.

Plus that's a sure way to lose your money often times. So

So um what we did instead or what I did instead is I I called it the de the decompression series because like after Burning Man, all the caps came back from Burning Man, all these different groups of artists and collectives would throw their own parties, their own little decom parties, and then I I would promote them and so people from the Burning Man community would go to all these different parties. So, it's like over like the next consecutive six weekends, there's multiple parties going on. So, I called it the de the decompression series, right?

But then, uh rest in peace, good friend, uh Mark Bava, Mark Bava moved down from San Francisco to LA. What a what a dude. So he was partners with a guy named Joe Bulock who also has passed away a couple years ago. Another amazing human being. And Joe and uh Joe and Mark Baba were um uh partners in in part party partners, party throwers.

And in San Francisco they threw like the anan salons and I think they did the flambe. I'm not sure. These were parties. put up there

and I think that uh they'd have the the uh

I don't know if it still goes on. It was called the Sea of Dreams party which was a New Year's Eve party and all all their events just went off.

So at one point Mark like this is about in 2002 uh Mark moved down to LA and he and his brother and his sister-in-law who all three perished in the car wreck in 2012.

Oh wow.

Yeah. It was That was that was a sad day. Yeah. Anyway, Mark had become a very very close friend.

Uh but anyhow, they they took they bought this bar in downtown LA in the arts artist district. It was called Little Pedro,

but they they changed name to Blue Bongo. So, it became Little Pedro Blue Bongo.

Blue what?

Blue Bongo.

Bongo.

Like bongo drums.

Oh, okay.

And it kind of became the de facto Burning Man hangout. But at first it was just like I befriended Bob a year the year before and one of my uh collaborators, longtime collaborators, longtime burners, a guy named Paul Kerry, another amazing human being uh threw his a 50th birthday party for himself in 2001

that he'd been planning for decades. He money saved.

So So of course burner community, Mutator played at the time when Mutator was big.

He had two stages, two Hollywood sound stages that were rented. Wow.

And uh Bava and bullet came down to, you know, help help out with the organization and perhaps maybe just to be there. And that's when I first met Baba. I had already known Joe because Joe and the player working with Burning Man, he would like for the for the Burning Man opera, we would need a sound system.

So, I would have to go to Joe and he he he arranged a sound system that would all be delivered out there,

you know. So, so I already uh was familiar with Joe, but I never met Mark until he came down to Paul K's 50th birthday party. was just legendary, you know, and um we became friends then and then but the next year he moved there and had that bar. So I started hanging at that bar with some some close insiders to me. So it was like the insiders kind of Burning Man secret bar.

But then it just, you know, he started having events and DJs uh whatever live music

um and uh he'd have events that would be appropriate for me promoting on the LA Burner list. So It became like the de facto LA Burner hangout.

Okay.

It was great. So, uh, that was in 2002. So, by 2003, I started thinking because he's got a liquor license and everything with that bar and we're in the arts district and there's a street right out in front of his bar that's a little little used street. And I So, I went to Baba and I said, "Hey, Bob, uh, what do you think? Think about us doing like a decompression Burning Man LA Burning Man decompression street fair right here. Have the bar be central to it. We get the street closed off, get, you know, permits to close off the street

and without any hesitation, Baba says, "I got contacts at the permit office." And it's like the next person I went to, so Baba was the fir. So Mark Baba didn't move to LA. Perhaps it would have never happened.

So Baba was instrumental in

Was he just waiting for you to say that?

Yeah. Well, it could have been. But man, it was just I got goosebumps talking about it. It's just like this is like the serendipity of my life also. It's just like so so uh the next person I went to was Paul Kerry because he's a very resourceful guy.

And then uh like very quickly and I'm good at doing this too is putting a team together like a good team. But um had a friend back then who had a he threw these loft parties. They're called the red loft. He lived in he painted it all red and he lived there. But he throw these parties I think maybe help him pay the rent, but they were total burner parties. They were off the hook. They happened frequently. So, everyone knew Py. So, Py says,

"You didn't help us with the organization of the of the event, the first LACOM, but he provided the space."

Okay.

So, okay, we this could be our meeting space. So, I was able to assemble a group of 13 people that I knew fairly well and that were doers, movers, and shakers, and I knew they could get s*** done.

Uh, Athena Damas is one of who I believe you've interview Oh yeah.

Uh Athena's instrumental Sheho Yoshida uh who's a ranger, been a ranger for years at Bernie man. She's indispensable. Uh other DJ friends who know how to uh organize and throw their own parties. So we would have three or four stages. Um and so it'd be like there's D Eric Wolfford. He's DJ Wolfie. So it's like, "Hey Wolfie, you want to run that stage?" He and he would bring in whoever he works with,

you know.

Yeah. left it up to him. So, as a producer, you don't know have to know how to do everything, but you have to know to assemble the people that know how to do all the s***.

Well, that's the producers's job,

right? And so, um, we had I think it was like 13 people at that first meeting at Pineies Loft and it was unbelievable how smooth it was. There was like no hissy fits, no ego b*******, no, it was uh it it and everyone just rose up to

Wow.

And then, you know, sometimes we're short-handed. And it's like here's where Cena was great. Uh she would have a certain role. It's like I'll handle that. It's like okay great. Then we need somebody else to do something. There was no person for it. She'd say I can do that. Well, you're already doing the other thing. She was Yeah, but I got that pretty handle. I could handle this. So then something else would come up. She'd say, "I'll do it." She was always willing. Oh, I'll take it on. And after like the third one, it's like Athena, you're gonna you're no you're going to you're going to get worn too thin and not be able to be effective at all. But she handled a lot of things at one time.

Yeah.

So the These are like amazing people to have partnered with.

So, what was the first decom? Was it 2004 or something?

2003.

2003.

The first official one. Some people say uh I've got friends even who say no no we had one before that. It was at the Whiteitman Airport which is where Ray Serino lived. Ray Serino in the early days of Burning Man. He's the guy who created Water Woman.

And uh Ray is an artistic force and he was great. But we did we had a big party up at the Whiteman airport, the small regional airport. or crazy off the hook party, but it wasn't an official Burning Man region,

but it was a LA burner party.

So since

So I got friends say, "No, no, no. There we did. There were other ones." No, the first official real LA decom was 2003.

So

October October 2003.

So that has it basically been like an annual thing every year?

No. Uh I was uh producer of that for the first four years, actually the fourth year. So I was 200 2003, 2004, 2005, but 2006 because I was I left as the regional. Okay. And since that that event uh was happening after two the 2006 burn,

so I was like technically not the regional anymore. Okay.

But I was part of all their meetings and the baton had been passed to the three new regionals and they were taking over the control of producing and uh organizing the opera. But I was part of that team just because like what's the word? Ammerredis.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Producer

Emmeritus.

Right. Yeah. So um and then uh the baton got passed to the various people. So it went on for some years.

Uh

then they had to change locations because uh the metro put in a big old you know the train line where that street was in front of the blue bongo. So that was now now it's a little narrow walk street. So uh but you know first we had it the first year we just had the street closed in front of the blue bongo and they had the nice L-shaped parking lot that went around it. So, it was So, we had outdoor bars, indoor bar, uh we had stage outside the bongo, the stage inside the bongo, um and three stages down the street and uh art all over the place, uh LA artists bringing their art and setting it up everywhere. But the first one was just like down the first street and then like a block down and then to the left to one block. But then the next year it went down the street to the left and to the right down two blocks.

Wow.

And under a bridge and so and it was awesome. Those years were just really amazing.

So, how has it evolved over the years?

Well, then they moved it to a park in LA because like I said, they they the uh and then Bava Baba moved back out to Northern Cal to Caramel Carmel.

And um uh and then he passed away, but that was years later in 2012 when he he died. But But, uh, let's see. Um, yeah, they had to move it and at first they moved it way down the street. I actually didn't go that year. I think I was traveling. And, uh, then after that, they moved it to this this park, which became a car park. It was an empty field. It was used to be known as the corn field in downtown LA. And there's train it's like a train yard. Trains going through there. And then they the city turned into a giant park. Put grass there. And they moved it to the park, which is really nice. But I really myself personally I like the street fair. I like the immediacy of it and it's like and whereas the park everyone's spread out. It's nice. It's green little hilly green stuff. It's but but then uh something happened, you know.

I left uh I stopped going after I I left as the regional in 2006. I I didn't go back to Burning Man for 12 years.

So I kind of fell out of the loop and wasn't paying attention. And but then apparently something happened with the park and they the regionals whoever's running it now

uh uh uh lost the ability to do it there. I think last year, the last couple years, they've done it down at the Masonic Temple in Long Beach, California. Uh which I have not made it to. I wanted to go to the last one, which I think it was last year, but so I don't know. It's I think it's catches catch can. I don't I don't know how it's working out now. So, yeah.

Well, anyway, you took 12 years off from the what? 2018.

I came back I came back 2018 because that's uh Larry Harvey had died that year and Uh Larry and I had gotten close. We'd have amazing conversations. Whenever he'd come to LA, he'd stay with me.

So I've had personal conversations long into the night, just me and Larry.

And um so Da called me and said, "Hey, you ever think about coming back to the Playa?" And I said, "Yeah, I I'm a still a huge proponent of the playa. I I tell people who haven't been for sure they should go, you know, but um I don't know if I'll go." He goes, you know, if you should come out this year for Larry's memorial. And I said, "You know what?" He goes, "I'll get I I'll arrange for you to be here. I'll get you a gift ticket cuz you know, you you need to be here."

So, um, I got I got gifted a ticket and I it took something that big to bring me back.

Not to have anything against it, but after 10 years straight and and not only 10 years straight of doing Burning Man, but doing it at the level I was doing it, I was producing Pepe's Opera, this amazing amazing thing going on there and being the LA regional I was like in it and it was awesome.

It was like some of the peak moments of my life came in that period of time and uh so after I stepped out as the regional in 2006 um

you know the world's a big place. It's like I'm not going to just keep going back to Burning Man. It's expensive.

Life moves on.

Yeah. I traveled you know what happened in 2007. It was so great and it was also kind of serendipitous. I started talking to some uh longtime burner friends and people who participated with the opera uh with us. And um I said, you know, yeah, I'm not going uh in 2007. It'll be my first time not going in 10 years. And uh I'm going to go to Europe. I'm going to travel all over Europe. And I had these friends are like my my buddy Samo who helped a lot with all these early events. Uh Samo was living abroad a lot at that time of year. And he he uh he and his girlfriend, he was also very his then girlfriend's very good friend of mine too. Gypsy. Uh, they moved to Amsterdam.

So, I'm like, I'm going to go hang with Gypsy in Samo and Amsterdam and, uh, travel around. I got family in Croatia. Gypsy's got family in Italy. Uh, so then I'm telling these burner friends and they were all saying, "We weren't going to go either. We were planning on traveling." So, at one point there were 12 of us, and this is mind-blowing really for to me anyway.

At one point, we're sailing ing across the Adriatic Sea from Ankona, Italy to Split, Croatia, which is right by my dad's hometown. Dad's from a place called Primosen, which is awesome. And um

we are in the middle of the Adriatic Sea, can't see land around. At the same time, the Burning Man is happening.

And we're 12 oldtime burners. First time not going to Burning Man in years. And we're just laughing going, "Oh my god, look where we are. It's the polar opposite where all our friends are out. eating dust right now. We're in the middle of the sea. It's like

we could drown.

We could drown. Yeah. So, it was just it was quite a juxtaposition, you know, and uh and so I traveled around Europe all over the place. I got a bunch of my burner friends, got to meet my family in Croatia.

Uh it was it was awesome, you know, but but I so for 12 years I just, you know, carried on with my life.

Yeah.

So, going back in 2018 for Larry's Memorial, were you thinking like, h I'm just going to go back this one time?

Yeah, I did think that. Yeah. Uh, but I don't I don't put any absolutes on things in typically.

One and done, right? You haven't been back since.

No. So, so yeah, after I did that uh and Larry's memorial was was amazing. And Reverend Billy did the sermon and

and David Best built the the small elegant uh memorial to to Larry. And uh Reverend Billy, I mean, if you don't know who he is, you could look him up. I mean, and talk talk to the listeners. you know, Reverend Billy. Um, I got reconnected there and I got reconnected to Marian and Harley and all the for the former found original founders of Burning Man. I got reconnected with all of them at that memorial. So, it was really good to be there. It was good for the heart, soul. And uh, uh, Dana Albany and Flash and, you know, all these people. And so, um, uh, Reverend Billy was giving a sermon, but he was talking to the David Best's little temple to Larry. He was speaking to it as though he was talking to Larry. It was it was brilliant. It was so it was so great. And uh uh so then you know there's more to that 2018 story, but basically that's that's my main purpose uh going

was for that. But also after 12 years uh seeing how the city not so much has ch it changed in size. It it's so

it's so big.

Well, 2018 I think also might be the high water mark. I think that was probably I think like maybe 2018 2019 one of those two like definitely precoid like that was like the largest that like it ever was.

I you know I just had my bike which you know I've always brought a bike to Burning Man. I've never pedled so much in my life and I would go far out to like deep deep play that at at what's called.3 you know.3 the deepest point out there and uh because there'd be events going on out there and then I come to ride back to the town and there's the slightest headwind just the slightest breeze. It makes your drive your ride back so much harder. I'm just pedaling and not feeling like I'm getting and the city's just like it just

it it's so lit up too now because lighting technology has changed. So every everything is uh LED. What I miss is um

back in these old days is burning man. There was fire everywhere. You don't find so much fire now. Yeah,

that's why I I I love like I'm part of Plier Restoration now, which is a you know, get jumping ahead that story, but uh I joined up with DA and his team to be part of Pier Restoration, but we we've got fire pits, you know.

Yeah.

And we're in charge of there's three fire pits or four fire pits actually and one's in front of our camp. So we always have a fire burning, you know.

So your your newest uh version of participation in in Black City is more like Pioresto, right? So

Pier restoration. Yeah.

Yeah. So that that so that's what happened after 2018. Um I don't know if this boring for people to hear, you know, talking about my anecdotal stories about

but uh

you listeners love it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Woo. Keep going. Keep going.

See him.

But no, I I didn't go back for six years.

Uh and didn't know if I was going to go back. Never really thought much about it. But then I started thinking, you know what, in all the years I did Burning Man. I I was involved with um I was deeply involved and I got a great deal of satisfaction, gratification out of that.

And the year that I wasn't, my first year where I really wasn't was in 2006 because, you know, we we hadn't done an opera since the last opera was 2002.

So that that was over uh for me. And in 2006, I'd already determined I'm stepping out as of the of the regional role. Are we good? Yeah. So, um, so I knew that by the time I left the play in 2006, like when my when my wheels hit the pavement of Highway 34,

uh, I was no longer the regional. While I was at the PIA, I was still the regional, but I didn't have any duties in 2006. And I thought,

finally, I'm not going to be managing big groups of people and people that are stoned and, you know, missing,

hurting, changing diapers. Yeah.

You know, someone took too much acid and they don't know where they are.

You know, we'll find we'll find a place for

So, so uh um I thought 2006 was going to be awesome. It's like finally I get to be at Burning Man with no real duties. I could just And it was also the shortest because I always went out to Burning Man way early for the opera to help Pepe build the temples and all that. So, so my longest ever was three and a half weeks in 19 1998.

Uhhuh.

And so, uh, in in 2006, I only went for four and I I came I showed up on like Wednesday. Never done that before. Show up late.

That's kind of a fun thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.

I like the longer stays.

Oh, yeah. But it's nice kind of like to change it up sometimes. It's just

That's what I was thinking, too. It's like like I'm going to roll in on Wednesday. I got nothing to do. I'm going to camp with a few friends and

do set up everything. I'll leave on like Saturday or Sunday.

It's not that it was lame. It was just It's like I I was rudderless. I I Yeah, you ride your bike around or hop on an art car and go see some art. It's always lovely to see that and do that, but if that's all it is, it can't just be that for me. I have to be involved. I have to be

I have I've got to be doing something. I have to be part of a a crew, a a team.

Uh that's where I work best, I think. Anyway, I'm a good collaborator. I'm not a good competitor

because I don't want to compete with you. I want to partner up with you.

Exactly.

And so, um, I've always been that way. My mom tells me, my mom's, you know, almost 90, and she tells me how I how I was as a little kid, and she says, "Oh, you've always been like that." Even you'd see some other little kid and you'd immediately just like, "Hey, how how could we get up to shenanigans together, you know?" So, it's just something innate. And, um, so, uh, but in in 2024, I started thinking, you know what? If I go back, I have to I can't just go back. That's the problem.

So, I called a DA and uh I said, "Listen, man. Thinking of coming back, but I can't just come back." I told him that same story I just said. And uh

and I said, "So, I I I I'd love to be part of your team, Appla Resto, if you have a spot for me. Do you I mean, I just volunteer. I'm not looking for a pay job.

Just to volunteer to to be part of something that that is, you know, valid and useful. and appreciated. Um, and he said, "f*** yeah,

I got a spot for you." Yeah. So, he arranged for me to be part of the team.

And so, I went back in 2024 and then again last year and I'm going to go back this year.

And if I go back next year, which I intend to, that'll be 30 years since my first burn. So, I got I got to go back in 2027.

Well, honestly, what's DA going to say? It's like, oh, uh, another unpaid volunteer to fly. to clean up everyone's s***. Sorry. Sorry. We're all filled up. You know, I know you're a good friend of mine, but it's amazing how

couldn't use another person to help clean up.

So many volunteers. People want to they want to do the cleanup. Especially towards the end of the event, we get flooded with people who want to stay after to do the pious sweeps.

People just show up. They want to help. They want to be part of a lot of them first.

Or is it just like I just want to be for like a day or two and then they

Well, sometimes it's all open. It's just because there's handful of paid staff that manage everything and the the rest of everybody are volunteers and they're you know of their own free will want to do this and

so as long as you come back with like a bag of trash it's like you can stay like

they come up on you and just like I'm just doing whippets so you

well know you know often times people show up at our camp it's really kind of funny they show up at our camp oh you're playing a wrest I've been walking around they got these you know like those baggage baggage or cargo pants and they got all this s*** they found on the ply piece of cardboard or this or that. They're like, "Hey, we got all this stuff. Can we can we throw this off here? You guys apply a restaurant." It's like, "No, no, it doesn't work that way. Thank you for doing that. Keep doing that, but take it to your camp and and pack it out, please."

Yeah.

You know, you don't come you don't come to us and throw the the garbage off at.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Municipal waste department.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, um

well, let's see.

You want to hear about my the 1999 opera story? Sure. Just

show tell you that the commitment we had to this kind of thing.

Okay.

So the operas were always based on Pepe was a world traveler historian. He knew a lot about the movement of peoples and was fascinated with all this.

So like 1998 opera was was based on Samrian uh uh ancient cultural Dravidian stuff that I don't even know about. I don't want to talk about uh I can't speak about intelligently. Should interview Christopher Fueling. He's he was the my partner in the in the operas that cope co- co-produced, co-wrote, co-directed with Pepe. He's got a degree in anthropology and master of fine arts degree, I believe. And he uh he he has great knowledge of of this kind of thing. So

So 99,

what's that?

99. That was the story.

Yeah, that was the Sumerian thing was like that that was the one with the Hindu shapes with the insect ads that was already in motion when I jumped on board. So

So it was funny because two weeks before Burning Man 1998, me and Christopher and Pepe together. We jokingly called ourselves the the OC, the opera high command. I put that on the opera list once and people were like got all offended. They're like, "What are we supposed to click our heels and and salute you?" It's like, dude, it's f****** tongue and cheek, man.

Opera high command. It's a ridic It's a ridiculous.

You should have got yourself like the Noriega hat, you know, like Napoleon Nora hat.

But people get easily offended and uh but uh that was no big deal. But uh the three was uh two weeks before Burning Man in 1998. Uh Pepe was a world sale. He sailed around the world twice with his brother Julio. They're Argentinians. And uh Pepe moved to San Francisco like 40 years prior and became this amazing artist. And um but he sailed around the world. He knew about a bunch of sailing. Uh he knew about sailing and he knew sailors. So he had a friend who had a sailboat in San Francisco. So two weeks before the Burning Man 98, uh Pepe Christopher and I hopped on the boat with his friend and some other friends and we're cruising around the bay just having a lovely day. Everything's set for the opera. We there's not much we have to do for that year's opera because it's already all set in motion. Sculptures are built ready to be assembled on the pio when we go there in two weeks. And Pepe says, "So, let's talk about next year's opera." I can't I can't I can't talk about Pepe without doing his accent. And he says, "I've always been fascinated with voodoo. So, I'd like to go to Haiti and I want to study voodoo and uh base next year's opera on voodoo. So, it's like, wow. So, we're not even at this year's opera, we're already talking about what we're going to do next year. And so, uh what happened over the next year is Christopher with his big brain and and uh uh me and tow we we going to the LA Public Library and just doing tons of research. And Christopher with his academic background and big brain kind of stuff. Uh which I I don't possess. I got you know I've got a another kind of gift which I'm not sure what it is but it's not it's not that.

And so um we put together we photocopying stuff all about voodoo. We put together this thick three- ring binder. We called it our voodoo field guide and we studied the f*** out of that over the whole year. And then it came time the end of uh 1998 into 1999 I spent that New Year's in Chuck Mail, Haiti.

Yeah.

But Pepe went down first and I flew down a week later and then a week after that, Christopher flew in from Amsterdam and and Pepe's 1995 Burning Man girlfriend, her name was Andrea Zultar, I believe,

flew in from Berlin.

Uh, so by the time I got to Haiti, Pepe had already and Pepe's got this magical ability to just get in,

you know, even places he's not supposed to be under bad penalties. Pepe could get in as one of one of the locals,

chameleon. Amazing. It was amazing to watch and uh like he's one of the most amazing people I've ever known in my life. I'm so privileged to have had him as a friend.

Amazing to be around that guy.

And uh so like for example, we're so so by the time I get to Haiti Pepe's already befriended a mambo, a voodoo priestess. Her name was was Shantal. And you know, and Haiti is not a place you go for vacation. It's it's it's a it's a I've never seen poverty like that in my life. And and uh and being a white person in Haiti, I mean, you stand out. Everyone stops and stares at you and it you and it could be unsettling, but I'm pretty confident in who I am typically. And and so I was never frightened or anything, but it's like Um, uh, you're aware of it.

Yeah.

So, uh, but here's a quick aside. Uh, there's a guy I used to work with. He was a grip, uh, Tim Tim Persing and his wife

and they had adopted uh, Haitian children.

Okay.

They lived up in Topanga Canyon. So, Pepe came down from San Francisco, stayed with me, and we took a trip to Topanga to Tim and his wife's house to talk about Haiti and voodoo and what our purposes were. And

they said, "You know, at best what you guys are going to get being white down there, they know you have, even if you're not rich, they're going to see you as rich, as a money source."

And uh they'll put on some fakey fakey voodoo uh performances for you

just to get money out of you. That's that's the best you could hope for. b*******. Not when you're traveling with Pepe.

Pepe.

So, I get down there. Pepe is already hooked in with this Shantel. Shantel's brother, uh his name was uh Medin. Medine was this tall, good-looking gay man, Haitian man who ran a brothel,

and we would hang out at the brothel. I wasn't I wasn't

partaking

partaking. No, but um

the business trip,

but you know, so I got a voodoo priestess, voodoo priestess, her her brother who runs a brothel surrounded by Haitian uh uh sex workers

and they had beer there and they the the the rum they drink down there is called barbakur rum. And uh so we're just drinking been carrying on. And uh Chantel is part of a Buddha community up in the hills above

Jacmail.

You have to roll up your pants and cross a river and then walk up all these dirt roads and get to this this voodoo community uh run by a guy named Papa Jeanclaude.

It was his voodoo community. And so we Pepe and I, this is like before Christopher and Andrea showed up, went up there numerous times to arrange uh uh to stay there um and to learn about voodoo from the voodoo from a voodoo priest at his voodoo community. And Pepe spoke and understood some French, but the French that they speak in

Hades at Creole and it's completely like f***** up. So Pepe's trying to grock what they're saying different.

So in the the negotiations we're having with them

and we told them exactly why we're there

that we're learning going to apply the voodoo

in a performance way make an opera at this thing called Burning Man,

right? Well, no, we explained it as as well as we could or I I say we Pepe Pepe did it because I I so Pepe uh Pepe uh uh so Papa Jean Claude says uh so basically you went to semin that to mean seminar

like

and so we agreed it's like okay we're going okay yeah so we're going to be up there We're going to live on that voodoo community. When Christopher and and and Drea show up, the four of us are going to go up there. We're going to live there

and and Pop Jean Claude's going to give us the ins and outs of voodoo and we're going to see Buddha ceremonies and all the stuff.

Well, we go up there and there's a giant Buddha ceremony going on and it's a really special one and the entire community comes out. There's hundreds of people around and me, Pepe, and Christopher and uh and Andrea is there enjoying it. And if you ever been to a voodoo ceremony, the drums going and uh and the what what are called the uni are the are these women all dressed in white who twirl and dance and sing and the uh Khan I think is the lead singer, the leader of the the the the uni and they had um fires burning all this s*** going on and uh and we're just there enjoying and and people get possessed. It's uh

uh

it's like speaking in tongues or whatever. It's like the Yeah. Yeah. But spirit takes you. So this it's called a paristile. It's like the the the the temple where the voodoo ceremonies take place. In the middle of every paristel is a is a pole hang. It goes from the center of the roof to the ground.

And in voodoo they have a cross. It's not a Christian cross. It's just like a plus sign. Okay.

And what that symbolizes is

the the the the horizontal line is the diff like above that is the spirit realm and below that is us.

And the the the vertical line is the pipeline from the one to the other.

Okay?

And so they got all these voodoo spirits. And so Papa John Claude was impressed with how much we knew about all the different voodoo spirits.

So the main voodoo spirit that has to be conjured first is is Papa Legba. He's the gatekeeper between our profane world and the esoteric secret world.

So you say you want Dambala, which is the snake spirit, to to visit because you need certain things to ask Dambala

and and Dambala's wife Idawo they're snake spirits right so you have to ask permission papa lebba first but the thing with papa always says yes but that doesn't preclude you from ever from excluding him from the ceremony you always have to say papa lebba can this can you know will you allow you know and the way you know that spirit and I'm not a believer in religion by the way you know and I'm just like kind of anti but this is all fascinating sociological study.

Uh the way the congregation knows that dumbbell there is somebody pe someone gets possessed falls on the ground starts crawling out around like a snake

and then the voodoo priest gets a rattle out. It's called nan as ss o n with a bell on it and they start ringing it around that person and they get the person the person's eyes are all entranced.

Um and uh but then at some point so we're watching all this happen happened the ceremony. What we didn't know was when we negotiated for the seminary,

seminary didn't mean seminar. It meant seminary like a seminary where people go to become priests, right? So now all of a sudden the uni who are singing and the drums are beating the crazy awesome beats. You got the Rada beat and the pro beat. Uh it's fascinating but and so All the uni are now coming towards us and singing and they they they take us the four of us to the center of the f****** room.

Okay.

And then they put hoods over our heads.

There's drums and singing and all the whole community is out there. And this is where I started thinking, okay, here's where here's where these these former black slaves get revenge on white guy and they're going to machete me to death. You know, you know the s*** that goes through the mind. And then I just I surrendered. to that. I said, "If that's what happens, then that's the story of me. That's" and of course that didn't happen.

And uh then all of a sudden they're they're spinning us around in circles and you can feel their hands on us and they're spinning us and then they start walking us and and then uh we feel roots of trees because it's jungly there under our feet and the drums and the singing of the uni are still they're they're getting getting farther and farther away, but the uni that are guiding us and spinning us and walking with us are still singing. So, we had the singers close and you can hear the other singers and the drums moving further and further away

and then all of a sudden we're in some sort of building and they force us kind of down by the shoulders in in a seated position. They put our legs out. You got to have your legs straight out

and then they took the hoods off us and we're in this little 12t x 12 foot concrete room with leaves all over the floor and And there's an altar there with all these voodoo things on it.

Wow.

And candles burning. And the uni are just singing singing. And then they sing and they just walk out.

And we're sitting there going, "What the f***? What the what?" And they go back and and the voodoo ceremony rages into the night.

This was the start of our initiation.

Wow.

So for seven days and seven nights, we didn't know this. We were had to stay in that room. Could not leave that room.

Oh wow.

They would come in and do rituals with us, including killing of chickens and putting chicken blood on us.

Um we would get bored in there. The leaves were some sort of sacred plant that they put on. They would replenish them every now and then. They come in with new bags of leaves and put them on the ground

and um and they would just come in. They they wouldn't come in for, you know, sometimes like a whole day. We're sitting there. They would feed us, but it was a sparse food in in Haiti. Uh but the best meal we had was the chickens at they killed and put the blood on us, everything. They cooked those up and we ate that.

But uh uh just out of boredom and and wanting exercise, we would do s***. We would just like stand up, the four of us, and we just walk in a circle in the 12oot room. Then we started doing figure8s, so we would bump into each other in the middle, you know? And uh uh and at the end of it all, um seven days later, we Oh, they had a tailor come in to measure us because when you graduate, when you're baptized,

um you have to all be in brand new, never worn before, white. So they they made us white button-down shirt, white pants, and they put uh straw hats on us for Papa Loco

is agricultural uh voodoo spirit, Papa Loco. That's why the the opera in 1999 was called Leester de Papal Loco.

And uh uh then we were graduating. We were set free from that room and um there was a voodoo ceremony and we learned all these things like with the asan got we got our own asan you know the rattles with the bells I still have them at home

um and

uh there's like secret handshakes like the voodoo priest in charge papa JeanClaude would tap his on his head three times and I would have to put my leg out go like this on my leg then he would go like this on his shoulder and then I would have to go ta dut on my you know on my neck or whatever it's like a call response, but you have to remember how they were. So each one of us had to do that with Papa Jean Claude and then we were

we were voodoo priests. So technically

you're voodoo priest.

So this is the kind of commitment we had to do whatever we had to do for that f****** opera and for Burning Man.

Wow.

Pretty f****** heavy. I still trip on it's like f*** I can't believe I did that s***, you know?

But nowadays people are thinking about like well I got to get the the trailer guys like a generator and rent the RV and have PLA services deliver me water.

Yeah. See, I'm one of those people now. I just bought an RV a few weeks ago.

It's like try going to Haiti and be locked in a room in seven days and you come out of a new priest.

Yeah. Yeah. How we on time? Because I mean I could talk about this stuff all day, but I think listeners will get bored, you know, just you start talking about stories

and uh like your Bman experience, but uh let's see. Let's briefly just go over like your background like your pre- running back like did you always did you grow up in LA like where you

Yeah, I was born in San Pedro

Porttown great place to grow up but I had to get out of there so I moved north of there to like Hollywood area Venice lived in Venice Beach a lot

but uh various areas I lived in downtown LA I lived in Santa Monica I lived in Culver City I went I lived in Venice four times it's at one point all roads led back to Venice Beach for me I lived in Venice I moved out of Venice next time I moved I moved back to Venice and move somewhere else and move back to Venice. It's like so uh I that was my primary stomping grounds Hollywood area all that and uh uh I got in the in the film business 1985 movie business and so um but I always wanted to produce that was really I wanted to produce films.

Uh what I really did was I became a not not initially but uh I started off as a grip

and I I segueed into uh lighting and I kind of stayed there. But I had a production company for a number of years. I produced a movie. It won awards.

Uh it it was invited to 21 film film festivals all over the world. My partners and I thought we we had it made.

Yeah. Couldn't get a decent distribution deal. We had we got one, but it was s*****. And um

uh and then we chased other projects after that and it would get so close to getting made and somebody invariably would say the wrong thing at the wrong time. the wrong person and all your years of prepping that project just turns into vapor and never never comes back. So after a while it's like I always had my my union lighting job

and which is it was fine. It provided me

I could I could if I don't want to work for three months I just don't go to work for three months

and when I come back it's all networking. I got friends. Hey man, I'm available if you hear of anything and almost immediately my phone starts ringing and you pick up where you left off. So that that's one reason I was able to do so much time at at Burning Man because I was super active in my in my movie job uh back then. But it's like I saved up a pile of money and uh I'm going to just f*** off the Burning Man for you know the next two months I'll just spend dedicated to that.

Now you have your lucrative career as a Voodoo Pri.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, let's that gets us to our final question. Uh the impact and influence of Bernie man on your life.

You're kidding. After all these stories, you can't It's done nothing for me at all. It'll just spit up burden.

Uh I don't know. I think those stories tell it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Or do they not? Should I come up with something else?

Well, as it's not this anchor that's been waiting, say it again.

Well, what has been Bernie man's impact and influence on your life?

I mean, we're not going to go through like, oh, what if Bernie man never happened? Where would you be? Because like how you going to say that, you know, but like uh I don't know. like how did it what effect did it have on your life? You know,

well, I don't know. Perhaps

involved in the Burning Man or the the local party scene in LA like before this and then you're like, "Oh, yeah." And then you meet Pepe and then all this and that like like what what kept you coming back or even now like after all these years like why why go back?

Well, when you're having when you're living your peak experience in life, you tend to want to keep it going. And basically, I think that's the answer to that, you know, and and fun. It's like I've always been about having as much fun as humanly possible and and boy that place provides it if you wanted to. It also puts things under a microscope. Many relationships have eaten s*** at

and and other ones have blossomed, you know. So, uh it it puts it puts life under a microscope. But as far as like, you know, uh enjoyment of life, um

that was fertile ground.

And uh so for me it was like it was it was like yeah it was fertilizing. Birdie man is fertilizer. You heard that here,

right? Right.

It's just s***, kids.

Yeah, just s***.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah. And you you see yourself I mean because you're you're now doing like play Resto.

Oh, that's right. We never even got into any of that, but uh

I volunteer for Presto. So, um

I don't stay there for the whole sweep. I don't know if people need explanations of the sweep like after the event is gone. Uh everything's gone.

Yeah.

Uh and the the BLM is going to come in and do an environmental impact survey, EIS. Uh but prior to that, that happens usually in early October. Um everything has to be swept. So the entire space that Burning Man took, like everything's gone. So you have no point of reference for where anything was, but they got GPS uh coordinates.

So everything is put into a grid and and they people arms length walking the entire grid, the whole I think it's five square miles.

Yeah.

Walking slowly across and picking up any little thing

and it's amazing the s*** they find. Even though the community is largely really really good about cleaning up invariably uh well things will come up from even past years, you know, maybe things that were missed that were further under in the rains s*** will come up for that.

Is it always like in the same spot though or do they kind of like move the city around?

I I think if it moves moves very slightly, but but I I can't speak. Uh

so when they put the the golden spike in, which is the man in the center, it's like it's not always

No, it's not always the same spot,

but it's probably pretty close.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so also like for Burning Man to get its permit for the next year from the Bureau of Land Management, it's like they have to pass this like

So that's what these sweeps happen after the event. When the sweeps are done in early October, the I think October 2nd this year or last year was the cut off. update or something like that. And um that's where the BLM comes in interface with the Burning Man or they uh what they do is they randomly pick spots

in that whole I think it's five square miles. I don't know.

Yeah. Something. Yeah.

Yeah. So, uh they just pick random spots to check

and everything being on that grid. There's a certain amount of moop, which is mad or out of place, right?

Uh there's a certain amount of moop that's acceptable for like each square yard, let's say, if if if there's enough moop that fits in my hand, well, that's acceptable. Anything more than that in that size

doesn't pass. So, they'll just pick random spots anywhere and and um and see what was what was picked up there. And uh

and uh every year Bernie man passes like exceptionally well.

Well, it's never in 2003.

Never failed. I mean, I'm sorry. It's never failed. No, it's never failed. But and and they got their worst points I think in 2023, which I wasn't there. That was the mud year. So the mud got and people tried to get out and digging up the play and all the stuff that was even buried further down. So it it it was a nightmare. I was asking to my colleagues I was asking my colleagues and playto uh about that uh about that year and they say, "Oh, f****** nightmare to clean up."

You know, like the people were putting things on the ground because that that mud gets so slippery. Like last year I f****** slipped twice hard. Just landed on my ass hard. Just both both my legs just came out from under me just like

Yeah.

on your ass.

And what were they putting down?

So they would put down like say you know that kind of shade net that that they use at center camp

or it's a construction shade. It's like black but stretchy and

translucent.

Uhhuh.

But it provides good shade. They put that on the ground and then and people walking on it because you know to They're trying anything to, you know,

allay the mud problem. And uh it would just get buried down and then and then

and then it would dry

and then they couldn't

and then that s*** and it would and it just gets they pull it out and it just rips and so that all this other s*** just buried under hard clumps of mud down.

So they had to bring out equipment and smash it andow

dig it all out. They said it was a nightmare.

Yeah. But but they got it done. But that year was the closest they ever came to not passing and it was still miles ahead of not passing, you know. So, they do they do a good job and and it's always good to encourage the community to keep uh keep picking up their s***, you know, take care of yourself.

What would be the ground covering that Ply Resto would recommend that people would use like

Oh, God. It's a that's a question better for like DA.

You got to interview DA.

Yeah. You hear that DA?

Yeah.

Coming for you.

Sorry. Yeah. All right. Well, let's see now. It's been hour and 20. Yeah. I mean, I think something which I might do I'm thinking contemplating is having like a second time go around with like I'm going to kind of put out to like all of my previous like interviewees and just see if like anyone's kind of interested. But like I don't know, maybe next year or at some point in the future if you ever want to like Yeah, I'm sure you've got plenty tons of more stories.

Oh, sure.

We could go on.

Oh, god. Yeah, we could go on and on. Yeah.

Like even the voodoo story, there's a lot that left out.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah.

And I can't give away the secrets anyway.

Oh, no.

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much.

Thank you. It was great. It was great. It's fun to talk about this stuff.

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this show, please subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The more reviews the show has, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Also, please tell a friend and share this show with anyone that you think might like it. Word of mouth reaches quite far, especially in the Burning Man community. If you would like to contact us, please send an email to shadowofthemanpodcast@gmail.com. You can also follow Shadow of the Man on social media at Facebook in Instagram, Blue Sky X, and YouTube. The links for all of these are available at shadowoftheman.com. Feel free to use any of these social media accounts to provide any feedback you might have. Your thoughts on the show are greatly appreciated. Thank you and see you soon for a new episode of The Shadow of the Man.

Thank you for listening to this latest show. We have to make another one. So, Got to go. Don't worry. For next month, we already have one in the can. Very soon, you'll be listening to a new Shadow of the Man.